It's Morfin Time! (HBP Chapter 10, 'The House of Gaunt')

Summary

MuggleCast Podcast Summary: "It's Morfin Time!" (HBP Chapter 10, 'The House of Gaunt')

Date: Dec 16, 2025
Hosts: Andrew, Laura, Eric, Micah
Episode Focus: A deep-dive, chapter-by-chapter re-read of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince – this week: Chapter 10, "The House of Gaunt"

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, the MuggleCast hosts examine Chapter 10 of Half-Blood Prince, exploring the first Dumbledore "lesson" with Harry, diving into the tragic history of the Gaunt family, theories about the Half-Blood Prince’s identity, the importance of Dumbledore’s memories, and thematic connections to both past and future Harry Potter books. As always, the hosts infuse humor, sharp critique, and personal insights into their discussion, linking the wizarding world to both canonical detail and real world parallels.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Revisiting the Half-Blood Prince Debate (07:00–10:15)

• Is Harry ethical in using the Half-Blood Prince’s textbook?
  • Andrew stands by allowing Harry to use the notes, but suggests he might as well admit it given everyone’s suspicions.
    • "Use it or lose it. But... maybe just admit it." [07:18]
  • Eric notes it becomes less ethical to pass it off as his own skill, but credits Harry for offering to share the book with Ron and Hermione.
    • "It's still unethical to pass that off as his own prowess...but he's not obsessively hoarding it for himself." [07:47]

2. Handwriting Mysteries and Snape’s Mother (08:55–11:23)

• The trio speculates about the Prince's identity, focusing on the handwriting.
  • Hermione thinks it's a girl's handwriting; Harry dismisses this—"Duh, how many girls are princes?" [09:36]
  • Eric connects this to Eileen Prince (Snape’s mother), foreshadowing the Half-Blood Prince reveal.
    • "The prince is a prince through his mom. So Eileen Prince is Snape's mom..." [10:47]
  • Discussion about cramped handwriting as a metaphor for Snape’s claustrophobic, restrictive upbringing.

3. Trelawney’s Tarot Reading (15:45–24:09)

• Trelawney’s random card pull (2, 7, 10, and knave of spades) sparks discussion about tarot’s symbolic resonance with the main plot:
  • Eric interprets the cards as relating to Draco’s assignment, betrayal, violence, and new beginnings (possibly Harry’s own apprenticeship with Dumbledore).
    • "So many people don't know this, but playing cards can be used like Tarot..." [16:02]
  • They note Trelawney’s knack for accurate—but never recognized—predictions:
    • "Her best predictions, her most accurate predictions, she's doomed to never know." [21:57]
  • Laura critiques the vagueness of divination, noting such descriptions can fit many characters and “show how Trelawney’s kind of closer to the mark than she realizes, but she is not actually expert enough at this to get it right." [24:09]

4. Dumbledore’s Lesson and Memory Dive (27:00–38:00)

• Dumbledore’s teaching strategy: He’s cagey with information, claiming "wildest guesswork," though the hosts agree he knows far more than he lets on.
  • "He's lying though. Still... this is not guesswork." – Eric [28:38]
• Dumbledore employs a Socratic method, pushing Harry to make his own connections for future readiness.
  • "Perhaps part of the way that he's teaching Harry is allowing Harry to make some of these discoveries on his own." – Laura [31:45]
• Discussion about how long Dumbledore has been tracking Voldemort and gathering memories.
• Importance of Harry learning to think critically; Dumbledore guides but doesn’t force conclusions.

5. The Gaunt Family Analyzed (38:00–56:00)

Isolation & Inbreeding

• The Gaunts’ pure-blood pride is critiqued, with Marvolo’s obsession with lineage mirrored in their physical and social decay.
  • “The gene pool is a little shallow, right, Micah?” [39:44]
  • Micah explains "Gaunt" means gaunt/haggard, highlighting their suffering and isolation.
  • Mythological background: Merope (named for the "lost" Pleiad) had an affair with a mortal, mirroring her fate with Tom Riddle Sr. [40:52]
• Hosts riff on how poor environments, neglect, and limited education lead to stunted development in Morfin and Merope.
  • "You get the impression that they've just suffered from a lot of stunted development." – Andrew [43:46]

Interaction with Bob Ogden

• Ogden, the magical law enforcer, is sent directly, raising questions about how seriously the Ministry takes the Gaunts.
• Morfin uses Parseltongue to intimidate Ogden (and is compared to a hissing rando on the NYC subway).
  • "If a guy is hissing at me, I'm probably gonna back up a little bit." [38:02]

Physical & Psychological Detail

• The Gaunts’ simian/monkeyish features are linked to the Slytherin bloodline and inbreeding.
  • "His shoulders were very broad and his arms overlong....gave him the look of a powerful aged monkey." [47:36]
• Discussion of names and pronunciation (Merope/Maripe), and the American-British pronunciation gap.

Abuse and Repression

• Marvolo's physical, emotional, and magical abuse of Merope, and Morfin's child-like cruelty, are dissected.
• Connections are drawn to magical suppression (possibly Obscurus, as in "Fantastic Beasts").

6. The Tom Riddle Sr. Connection (57:33–60:00)

• Tom Riddle Sr. and Cecilia are analyzed as mirrors of the Malfoys—privileged, snobbish Muggles.
• Morfin attacks Riddle out of jealousy, triggering the tragic events of Voldemort’s conception.

7. Dumbledore’s Purpose in Showing the Memory (62:07–63:51)

• The core reason: introducing Harry (and readers) to the concepts of Horcruxes and Voldemort’s origins—his objects of power, the physical roots of his evil.
  • "It's all about the Horcruxes, baby. That's what it comes down to." – Micah [62:21]
• Establishing Voldemort as a child of a loveless union, with trauma from both sides of his family tree.
  • "He was born out of a love potion...all builds a case for why Voldemort became the person that he did and why he couldn't foresee love being a powerful weapon." – Andrew [63:51]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trelawney's Prediction:
  • "The potency of these cards...they could relate to some of the major plots of this year. She's clueless because...she doesn't know—but she's got some level of the gift." – Eric [21:35]
• On Dumbledore’s Tactics:
  • "Dumbledore is clearly trying to set this up to kind of Socratic method Harry...allowing Harry to make his own connections." – Laura [31:45]
• On the Gaunts:
  • "Marvolo's just like, look at this jewelry…We're way too important for these Ministry summons. Okay." – Laura [54:23]
• On Abuse and Magic:
  • "One of the other things with Marvolo...is that he is physically abusive of Merope, so much so that it suppresses her magical abilities." – Micah [54:37]
  • Connects this to the concept of Obscurus from "Fantastic Beasts" [54:54]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [07:00] Half-Blood Prince ethics debate
• [09:36] Trio's speculation about the Prince and handwriting
• [15:45] Trelawney’s Tarot reading analysis
• [28:00] Dumbledore's “guesswork” and the Socratic teaching method
• [38:00] Introduction to the Gaunt family, isolation, and inbreeding
• [54:37] Marvolo’s abuse, Merope’s suppressed magic, and Obscurus discussion
• [62:07] The reason for Dumbledore’s memory review and introduction to Horcruxes

---

MVP of the Week: Bob Ogden (65:09–66:39)

Multiple hosts cite their favorite Bob moments:

• Laura: His cool refusal to be intimidated by the Gaunts
• Andrew: "Defend himself against what, man?"—a surprisingly blunt response for a wizard
• Eric: Credits Bob for escaping peril using "fancy shoes" [65:47]
• Micah: Reminds Marvolo "It's a matter of law, sir, not opinion." [65:59]

---

Links Line (Listener Feedback)

• Patrons speculate on what Salazar Slytherin would think of the Gaunts:
  • Justin: "He would have just killed them. He was interested in his legacy…we need to reevaluate Slytherin apologists." [67:03]
  • Zachary: “Overwhelmingly disgusted. Marvolo and his ilk are pretty much the Uncle Rico’s of his name…” [67:55]
  • Rachel: “Happy they've maintained Pure Blood status, but dismayed by their living conditions...not sure what he’d make of Tom Riddle Jr."

---

Episode Tone & Style

• Language: Conversational, witty, irreverent, and deeply knowledgeable; filled with Harry Potter in-jokes (“It's Morphin Time!”).
• Group dynamic: Collaborative, good at drawing connections across the series and lore, while injecting humor and empathy, especially on tragic or heavy topics.

---

Conclusion

A thoughtful, multi-faceted discussion of "The House of Gaunt," this episode weaves together literary analysis, lore connections, and meaningful commentary on abuse, isolation, and the roots of evil in the Harry Potter universe. Many insights about Dumbledore’s teaching style, the tragic Gaunt family, and the set-up for the Horcrux storyline make this a rich listen for Potter fans, whether re-reading or reminiscing.

“We gotta go. It’s Morphin Time!” [72:04]

Transcript

[Laura]

Kids, they grow up so fast. One day they're taking their first steps, and the next they don't fit into the tiny sneakers they took them in. You blink your eyes and their princess dress is two sizes too small. And their dinosaur backpack isn't cool anymore. But don't cry because they're growing up. Smile because you can profit off of it for real. There are a bunch of parents on depop looking for the stuff your kid just grew out of. Download depop to start selling. Close your eyes, exhale.

[Eric]

Feel your body relax, and let go of whatever you're carrying today.

[Laura]

Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh, my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe.

[Eric]

Oh, sorry.

[Laura]

I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order.

[Eric]

1-800-Contacts.

[Laura]

I am so excited for this spa day. Candles lit, music on, hot tub warm and ready. And then my chronic hives come back again in the middle of my spa day. What a wet blanket. Looks like another spell of itchy red skin. If you have chronic spontaneous urticaria or csu, there is a different treatment. Opt during my next spa day. Not if I can help it. Learn [e-mail] Morfin is just like, hissing at him. Literally, like, you're not welcome here. Get out.

[Eric]

Still, if a guy is hissing at me, I'm probably gonna back up a little bit.

[Micah]

You've been on the New York City subways too, Eric.

[Laura]

I think if a rando, like brandishing a bloody knife and a dead snake is hissing at me, I've received the message.

[Andrew]

Welcome to mugglecast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter. I'm Andrew.

[Micah]

I'm E. I'm Micah.

[Laura]

And I'm Laura.

[Andrew]

And we're your Harry Potter friends, talking about the books and the movies and the upcoming TV show. So make sure you press that follow button in your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. And this week, prepare your best organic door decorations. No snakes, please. Because we're getting ready to visit the Gaunt family in chapter 10 of Half Blood Prince, the House of Gaunt. And before we get to that, just wanted to let everybody know, Audible's Chamber of Secrets full cast audiobook is out Tuesday, December 16, the day that this episode will be released. Wanted to bring this up because we were very pleasantly surprised by Sorcerer's Stone and very much looking forward to Chamber of Secrets and the rest of the series. As a reminder, each book is going to be released on a monthly cadence. So Prisoner of Azkaban will be out in January, Goblet of Fire in February, so on and so forth. With each new book, of course, comes some new characters. So Kit Harington, who you'll know from Game of Thrones, joins the cast as Gilderoy Lockhart and Daniel Mays debuts as Dobby. So looking forward to those. And we plan to do a review of the first three audiobooks and then again once the rest of the series is out in the months ahead.

[Micah]

Who is Daniel Mays?

[Andrew]

I don't know. Hi, Billy Mays here. And that's my son. No.

[Laura]

Yeah, I don't think there's any family relation there. It doesn't look like feel like we'd know that.

[Andrew]

It is the holiday shopping season and we have special deals running on our Patreon and [e-mail] the Patreon keeps the show running unlike Marvolo's iron fist over his decrepit household. And we have our best offer of the year. Get 20% off an annual membership. Just visit patreon.com mugglecast and sign up for an annual subscription at the Dumbledore's army or Slug Club level. And this will guarantee you next year's gift plus a year of ad free episodes, bonus episodes, access to our member only Potter communities, including those monthly Slug Club hangouts and a lot more. Just use code holiday at checkout. And don't forget, you can gift memberships as well or you can receive a gifted membership, so keep that in mind. And second, get 20% off all [e-mail] you can get cozy this winter with a Mugglecast hoodie or beanie or socks or Laura's pants or a long sleeve tee. And if you live down under, stay cool this summer with a short sleeve tee or crop top. Lots of options.

[Eric]

Ooh, love that. We're now appealing to all seasons of the world. Love that.

[Andrew]

Yes. I just sent out a cozy Comfy combo pack to somebody in Michigan. The Cozy Comfy combo pack includes the beanie and socks. I was like, oh, they're smart. They're getting ready for winter.

[Eric]

Very smart.

[Andrew]

With the help of Mugglecast. So the deals that we have on mugglecastmerch.com and patreon.com mugglecast and Friday, December 19th so act now. All right, time for chapter by chapter, Half Blood Prince, Chapter 10, the House of Gauntz.

[Eric]

We'll begin with our pensive segment. As always, we last discussed Chapter 10 of Half Blood Prince on Mugglecast 300, which was titled Falling Softly and that debuted on October 22, 2018.

[Laura]

What you're looking at are memories. This is the most important memory I've collected. It is from Mugglecast, episode 390. In this chapter, we meet Bob Ogden and then the Chamber of Secrets. A third of the way in is the first time we hear mention of Ogden's old fire whiskey.

[Eric]

Oh, is it like his brother invented the whiskey or something?

[Laura]

Maybe.

[Eric]

Because Bob Ogden is magical law enforcement.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

If his brother had, maybe he went.

[Micah]

Into the fire whiskey business after this incident.

[Laura]

Yeah. You need a drink, Bob. I'm gonna make you some.

[Eric]

I need a drink.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

The drink was a favorite of Lockhart, and he told his second year Defense against the Dark Arts class that he wouldn't say no to a bottle for his birthday.

[Eric]

So he's actually imploring 12 year olds.

[Laura]

To buy him alcohol. I love Lockhart so much.

[Eric]

Everything is wrong about Lockhart.

[Laura]

This memory is everything.

[Andrew]

That was Mugglecast listener and Slug Club supporter Sam on the podcast, by the way.

[Laura]

Yeah, great throwback. Well, picking up with this chapter and kind of looking back at last week, I wanted to first ask if we could revisit the debate that we had last week about whether or not Harry was being an ethical student in using the Half Blood Prince's instructions to pass off a level of prowess at Potions that he doesn't really have. And it's because the very beginning of this chapter calls out that Harry does continue to follow the Half Blood Prince's instructions, with the result that by their fourth lesson, Slughorn was raving about Harry's abilities, saying. Saying that he had rarely taught anyone so talented. So does anyone, like, want to revise their feelings about last week? Nope.

[Andrew]

So I. I speak now. I stand by what I said last week that he should definitely use these notes. Use it or lose it. But I think because people are catching on to how talented he is with the book, maybe just admit it. Is it so wrong to admit you're using these notes?

[Eric]

If he does, I think maybe the rest of the students won't take too kindly to it. He would lose the book. Cause it's not equitable.

[Laura]

Right. It's not fair.

[Eric]

Yeah. The thing about Harry, like, he does at least offer to allow Hermione and Ron to use the book. This is something that I had forgotten. And it does kind of change a little bit what I was saying last week. Now I think it's still unethical to pass that off as like his own prowess. And Harry's ultimately not going to learn anything in Potions for another year, so it ain't great. But he's not like obsessively hoarding it for himself. Exactly.

[Andrew]

He's offering to share the wealth.

[Laura]

Sharing is caring.

[Eric]

Of course, if there were two exact perfect potions and the two that made them were Harry and Ron. I'm sorry, the other classmates are going.

[Laura]

To call bs well, and Slughorn's just going to look at Ron and be like, who are you again?

[Andrew]

Hey, but remember, Ron is a very smart character, as the books remind us.

[Eric]

Unlike the remember, he's also Slughorn's favorite. A pure blood wizard.

[Micah]

Yeah, I mean he's so smart he can't even read the writing in the book.

[Laura]

Oh, right, And I'm so glad he's chicken scratch. I'm so glad you brought that up, Micah, because that is another point we get into early in this chapter, which is the beginning of the breadcrumbing of the plot line of who is the? Like what's the identity of the half blooded prince? Who is it? And the trio definitely have their suspicions. Ron, of course, as you noted, like, can barely read the handwriting, which is interesting because Hermione thinks that it looks like a girl's handwriting. But then Harry's like, that's stupid. How many girls are princes? Hermione?

[Andrew]

Duh.

[Laura]

So it, it, it's, it's interesting how this plays out because everybody kind of like I think makes the most obvious assumptions when a, a clear, obvious assumption that should be right in front of them is that this is professor's handwriting. Who they've been in class with for like the last five years. Presumably Snape has written on the chalkboard. Presumably he's written notes on their assignments. And you know, they could very easily say wow, this looks familiar, but they don't.

[Andrew]

Could it look like our former Potions teacher book? That's another key clue for them to think about. I've seen this handwriting in another Potions class.

[Eric]

Hmm. I usually tend to think of girls handwriting as being nicer and neater than boys. Do you guys have that same opinion? I do, just in the most sense.

[Laura]

Have y' all seen my handwriting? My handwriting's not great.

[Eric]

Okay, okay, that's interesting.

[Laura]

That's terrible. But I will say I think Micah has much neater handwriting than I do.

[Eric]

Huh. Well, the reason I bring that up is I think that what we are to make of these assumptions. I really love the way you said that Laura where everyone kind of goes to like the easiest assumption. But I think the reason that like Hermione thinks it's a girl's handwriting actually just underscores the connection where the prince is a prince through his mom. So Eileen Prince is Snape's mom. That's the prince in the Half Blood Prince is a woman. So I think maybe that's the only connection I can make sense of as far as why she would think that way or why that's written that way.

[Andrew]

In a way it is a bit of foreshadowing.

[Micah]

It's also a bit ironic that Ron is commenting on or Ron can't read the handwriting but he so easily reads Hermione's handwriting when he's copying her notes all the time or you know doing, copying her assignment or paper or what have you. So I don't know.

[Eric]

Yeah, it's interesting because I think too like if Harry were really dedicated, I mean that's not really shade on Harry but if he's dedicated to giving the access to the book to the best potions to Ron and Hermione they would take the time in one of their hundreds of free periods this year and Harry could transcribe and rewrite on Ron's book all of the same in neater handwriting or dictate to Ron and he could write in his book and then they both could have margin copied books.

[Laura]

I don't think Ron cares enough to take the time for that. Yeah, I mean think about how much time that is. And then Hermione's just standing on principle. She's like Even though these obstruct these instructions are objectively worse than what you're using Harry. I flatly refuse to cheat something else that I thought was interesting. Something that stuck out to me about Snape's handwriting and the identity of the prince and Snape's connection to his mother. It makes me wonder if perhaps his handwriting took after his mother's handwriting because she was the, she was the, the parent that he had admiration and respect for over his father.

[Andrew]

You could think about too if they were closer. His mom maybe wrote letters to him so her writing style rubbed off on him especially if he would reread the letters.

[Eric]

Oh yeah. I tend to think of like. I think the word that's most used to describe Snape's handwriting is cramped. And that really just speaks to me to like mean like you know Kind of claustrophobic or that you're confined in a life that you don't particularly enjoy. Just looking back to the glimpse we got last book of Snape's home life, it doesn't seem like a pleasant place to be or grow up. So the cramped writing style for me is a natural extension of the really sort of chokingly small leeway that Snape had at home.

[Micah]

Yeah, he's definitely crampy, crabby, crampy, crabby, crampy, crabby, crampy. I like that point, Eric, too, because as we start to go through this chapter, I think there's a lot of similarities between how a father treats, in this case, his daughter and how Snape's father treats his wife. Although we're not given that context yet about Snape's family, but the fact that Snape is via the Half Blood Prince in this chapter and we're talking about Eileen Prince, I think there's definitely parallels that can be drawn.

[Eric]

Yeah. And why not throw into the grandfatherly situation between Dumbledore and Harry in this chapter? Because there's some obfuscation of truth going on.

[Laura]

Yeah. Never common theme with these two characters. But speaking of Dumbledore, pretty quickly after this interaction with the trio in the common room, Harry has to depart because he has his first lesson with Dumbledore, the lesson that he has no idea what's going to happen or what to expect. And as Harry is on his way to Dumbledore's office, he does step up, stumble across Trelawney, and she is reading playing cards and really reading into what she's drawing. So I thought we could take a moment to just kind of analyze what she draws. So she draws the 2 of spades, the 7 of spades, the 10 of spades and the knave of spades, citing things like conflict, an ill omen, violence, and a dark young man, possibly troubled, one who dislikes the questioner. And she very quickly kind of says, oh, no, this can't be right. But, Eric, you actually went in deep here and pulled some readings of what these cards could be in Tarot, right?

[Eric]

Yeah. So many people are. It's possible that people don't know this, but the minor arcana in Tarot and the Tarot cards can be used, or playing cards can be used, like Tarot cards. There's, there's. They're designed that way. So the numbers and the four suits, for instance, the, the spades equivalent in Tarot is the swords. So it's interesting because looking up, sort of just very helpful, handy Websites in Labyrinthos is the one that I used for this. The findings or the descriptions on here largely match what Trelawney is reading. And I kind of had a revelation in that when Trelawney's just walking down a corridor at Hogwarts and she's shuffling these cards and pulling them to gain some level of meaning, I found that a lot of the cards could relate very strongly to Draco and the plot with Draco. All of the cards except the last one in fact seem to be very heavy handed on what Draco is doing. And I think this makes sense because what's going on at Hogwarts this year, right, it's, it's Draco's year, it's his quest, he's got to kill the headmaster. And Trelawney, it's such an interesting thing that she could be cluing into it if only she could believe her findings.

[Andrew]

He's trying to set up an infiltration of Hogwarts too. Hogwarts, the school led by Dumbledore, to your point. So it is fascinating that Trelawney is pulling these cards while walking by Harry, who is very much tied to Draco's story.

[Eric]

Yeah, no, exactly, that's, that's well said, but yeah. So the two of spades just going here off of Labyrinthos. The two of swords symbolizes the confusion we face when we're forced to make difficult choices. The woman in the card being blindfolded, which is how it is in the tarot, is representation of a situation which prevents her from seeing both the problem and the solution with clarity. The swords that she's holding in each of her hands show that there are two choices that lead in different directions and are mutually exclusive to the other. It may also depict a stalemate, which means the problem should be addressed with logical and rational thinking. So there's this idea also with the two of spades, of an illusion of choice. And it's like the choices that Draco has to make in this year are already made for him in certain ways, like his, his choice is really just whether he can possibly survive and succeed. But the choice to kill Dumbledore is going to outlive Draco should he fail.

[Micah]

Could you tie this card at all though back to Narcissa and the choice she had to make earlier on in Half Blood Prince?

[Eric]

Very much so. Moving to some of the other cards, the seven of spades from Labyrinthos says it's about betrayal and deception. When you get this card, it may imply that you or someone else in your life is having difficulty Getting away with something. There are instances when we are forced to be sneaky, hoping that we will not be discovered. There are when we are found out, we have to face the consequences. Is anybody else getting like Draco at the Slug Club holiday?

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Or even Harry in this moment that Trelawney's pulling these cards as being sneaky?

[Eric]

Yeah. Yeah. So it's pretty interesting. And Draco's got a big, big secret that if it comes out, would be absolutely horrible for him. Even though I guess the relevant parties as head of house and the headmaster already know it. It's a big secret. And the 10 of spades is violence. According to Trelawney, it includes indicates a major disaster of some sort. A certain force of extreme magnitude has come hit you in your life, one that you may have not foreseen. There's a sense of betrayal that is indicated here for the characters stabbed in the back. It's a reminder that how much we try, we cannot control everything. This kind of foreshadows maybe Harry's loss as well as the betrayal of Dumbledore by a student that was supposed to be, you know, that's not what a student is supposed to do to the.

[Micah]

Headmaster or by Snape. I mean, we're led to believe that Snape is acting of his own accord.

[Eric]

Yeah. So the one that doesn't make any sense, Trelawney, and she says, this can't be right, is the Knave of Spades, which is the Page of Swords. And this is what I got from that. It says, when it comes to your career, you may be someone who is intelligent, innovative and ambitious. You may have lots of energy and many ideas to put into your career. Since this card is a page, this does point to some sort of apprenticeship or new experience, meaning you be in it. You may be in a period of training or at the start of a new job or career path. The thing about this is she is closest to Harry here and all of a sudden it's like somebody's an apprentice and is being trained, which is what Harry is going off to with Dumbledore.

[Andrew]

It's very interesting that all these can tie to Harry and Draco. And I also wonder if it dawns on Trelawney that the card she's pulling could relate to somebody who is near. She does also say, well, that can't be right when she's pulling the last one. I think it is. So she must be thinking about these cards in relation to someone. Right. Like what's going through her mind.

[Eric]

Yeah, she's following a Narrative. It's just so funny because the potency of these cards, as we're pointing out, like, they could relate to some of the major plots of this year. She's clueless because she doesn't. I don't know. She doesn't know. But she's. She's got some level of the gift. Her best predictions, her most accurate predictions. She's doomed to, like, never know that how.

[Andrew]

And that's another thing. This is another example of how Divination is actually sometimes accurate.

[Micah]

Yeah, but it's only accurate when she's stumbling around the castle, drunk on cooking sherry, pulling cards out of her pocket. Pocket. Excuse me.

[Laura]

That's how she taps into her inner eye.

[Andrew]

Well, it makes me think it's gotta.

[Laura]

Be a little loopy.

[Andrew]

A little loopy and a little relaxed. She's not in front of people. She doesn't have to sort of perform.

[Micah]

She's taking the edge off.

[Andrew]

It reminds me, and I know this is gonna sound like a stupid example, but when I'm playing Guitar Hero, if I think too much about hitting the notes in Guitar Hero, I stress myself out and then I perform badly. Whereas if I don't overthink it, that's what I'm my best during. Don't Stop Believing by Journey, you know.

[Eric]

No, it's a great reference. You kind of have to allow muscle memory to take over.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Eric]

Right.

[Laura]

Well. And I think if we're looking at this as being a commentary on Divination too, we could also. If we wanted to be critical about Divination, we could also look at this as, like, here's another example of how Trelawney was. Really relies on the vagueness of her art form. Because kind of like we've talked about before, if you go and read. And like, no offense to anyone, but, like, if you go and read your astrological chart for the month, these things can tend to be written in such a way that are vague enough that anyone can look into it and find similarities and connections to their own life. Rachel in the Discord is pointing out about the Knave of Spades connection that Draco is also in training to be a Death Eater in some capacity. I think we could also extend this to connect it to Tom Riddle, even. Like, I think these are vague enough descriptions that we could probably connect them to multiple different characters, which I think is by design to show. Oh, here's another example of how Trelawney's, like, kind of closer to the mark than she realizes, but she is not actually expert enough at this to get it right.

[Eric]

You know, it's, it's interesting though because Dumbledore's never fostered her gift like it. If he had just told her what she had done, the reason that she's at Hogwarts still, if he told her that she was correct, I think a lot of her self esteem would improve. I think she wouldn't have to stumble around on cooking sherry drunk as a skunk all this time. She would have a little bit of confidence and you know what that would do for somebody like her. I think she would rededicate herself and I think she would actually become somebody who is a little bit more confident. She would be able to actively like make some decisions and discern what's going on at Hogwarts. Now again, nobody cares that Draco's trying to kill Dumbledore. Dumbledore knows Snape's keeping an eye on him. But if she were to hone her gifts a little bit, it's just a way in which Dumbledore, I think has failed his staff. Because it's sad that Trelawney. I feel sad when I see this, that Trelawney is so close to something.

[Micah]

But put McGonagall in her place too.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

Because she's been highly critical of Trelawney. And one other apprenticeship that came to mind too. I know we mentioned Dumbledore and Harry earlier. What about the Half Blood Prince and Harry?

[Laura]

Yep.

[Eric]

Yeah, that's. If only Harry would learn anything, take anything away and see.

[Laura]

It's funny because you could also describe Harry as possibly troubled. And if you were to think about the Halfless Prince being the questioner in this case, yeah, Harry does dislike Snape. Draco dislikes Dumbledore. If you think about Dumbledore as the questioner. So it really can be applied multiple ways. Well, we are going to go read some tarot of our own, but we'll be right back after this. Marshall's buyers are hustling hard to get amazing new gifts into stores right up to the last minute. Like a designer perfume for that friend who never RSVP'd wishlist topping toys for her kids who came too. Belgian chocolate for the neighbor. A cozy scarf for your boss. And a wool jacket for your husband that you definitely did not almost forget. Marshalls. We get the deals. You give the good stuff, even at the last minute.

[Eric]

Phew.

[Laura]

Find a Marshall's near you.

[Andrew]

This episode is brought to you by Jack Daniels. Jack Daniels and music are made for each other.

[Micah]

They share a rhythm in the craft.

[Andrew]

Of making something timeless while being A part of legendary nights from backyard jams to sold out arenas, There's a song in every toast. Please drink responsibly. Responsibility.org, jack Daniels and Old no. 7 are registered trademarks. Tennessee Whiskey, 40% alcohol by volume. Jack Daniel Distillery, Lynchburg, Tennessee.

[Eric]

Coca Cola for the big, for the.

[Laura]

Small, the short and the tall. Peacemakers, risk takers for the optimists, pessimists for long distance love for introverts and extroverts, the thinkers and the doers for old friends and new Coca Cola for everyone. Pick up some Coca Cola at a store near you. So we're back and we're moving ahead to Harry's first lesson with Dumbledore. And the stage is really set to provide some answers, but with like a heaping side of uncertainty because Dumbledore gives Harry kind of high level confirmation about what they're working towards without really telling him. So they have this exchange where Dumbledore basically sets him up for what's gonna happen in the next book when Harry's like, does what you're going to tell me have anything to do with the prophecy? Will it help me survive? And Dumbledore's like, it has a very great deal to do with the prophecy and I certainly hope that it will help you survive. Yeah, it's, it's like, come on, man, like, stop your lurking the lead, you know?

[Andrew]

Dumbledore is very colorful in this moment and it's very interesting to me how Dumbledore admits to Harry that there will be the wildest guesswork happening. And since he is rather cleverer than most men, my mistakes tend to be correspondingly huger. So he's like, I'm going to be guessing a lot and I could be majorly wrong. But anyway, let's dive into the memory and then I'll share all my crackpot series.

[Eric]

It's so funny because he's lying though. Still, like, I, I, I don't think it's fair to characterize what Dumbledore is doing right now as guesswork at all because he has just recently destroyed a second or another Horcrux. Like, so he, he only ever, at the end of year two, you know, saw the diary, kind of assumed that's probably a Horcrux, but it was gone by the time he got to it. This time he had a fully functioning resurrection stone encased in the Peveril ring that was also holding a Horcrux, managed to destroy it. And, you know, how do you know to destroy something a Horcrux destruction is very specific, as the books we find out in the next book say. So Dumbledore knows that it's Horcruxes. This is not guesswork. And the reason he even says, oh, it's guesswork is because Harry actually confronts Dumbledore and says, wait a minute, sir Dina, last year you said you were going to tell me everything.

[Andrew]

He's like, so maybe is this to ease Harry into it then? Because dropping some of this with certainty might carry more weight than being like, well, you know, it's just a guess. It's not the biggest deal.

[Eric]

I can see that maybe I'm wrong. I can see, yeah, I can see that being true.

[Andrew]

I'm not bringing Dumbledore down to Harry level too. Like, it might be more overwhelming if Dumbledore is like X, Y and Z. What do you think, child? You know, it kind of puts him on his level.

[Eric]

I agree with that 100%. I think that Harry Dumbledore is making pains to make Harry appear that he's a peer of Dumbledore's. Like, it's treating him like an equal.

[Micah]

I think us as readers, though, need to go on this journey because this is part one of several memories that we're going to visit. And it's really to kind of peel back the curtain on how Voldemort came to power and how he's preserving himself and has been for all of these years. If we just kind of got the. He's making Horcrux's answer from Dumbledore right in this moment. That's kind of satisfying.

[Eric]

But think about by the end of if that started with. If this lesson started with that which Dumbledore knows, okay? He just knows. Then think where we could have gotten to by the end of this year. Harry would be much further along. There wouldn't be all this confusion about what he's really supposed to be doing next year. And Harry probably would have gotten the story of what happened at Dumbledore's hand, which he never does in the end, even though it's clued at in this chapter.

[Micah]

Well, he gets it in Deathly Hallows.

[Eric]

Through Snape's memory that he like, last minute was given before Snape died. Like, it's so off chance.

[Laura]

Like, well, and I think too, I originally had this slotted for Odds and ends for the chapter, but I think it's relevant to the conversation we're having right now. There is a point in the chapter, Eric, you called out where Harry's like, hey, you said at the end of last Term you were going to tell me everything. And Dumbledore says, and so I did. I told you everything I know. So I think we need to add to the Dumbledore lie. Count.

[Andrew]

Please, Harry, trust me, you liar.

[Laura]

Dumbledore is clearly trying to set this up to kind of Socratic method. Harry, as we were talking about, like, he's trying to teach him. He's trying to allow Harry to make his own connections. And I wonder if that's because or if that's part of Dumbledore setting Harry up to be ready for this. Because we do see in the Prince's Tale, in the next book, Dumbledore talking about Harry being ready at the opportune moment. And perhaps part of the way that he's teaching Harry is allowing Harry to make some of these discoveries on his own. Like we definitely see in Bob Ogden's memory, after they come out of it, Harry starts picking up on things like, wait, Marvolo. I know that name. And so, you know, Dumbledore's like, ah, yes, very clever. You remember what that is, huh? And so that's also a great connection back to Chamber of Secrets. But getting back to the memory, Dumbledore is taking Harry on a gener, is taking Harry on a journey into Bob Ogden's memory. And just as a recap here, Ogden was the head of the Department of Magical Law Enforcement and according to Dumbledore, had died some time ago. But Dumbledore said, you know, not before I tracked him down and persuaded him to confide his recollections of this memory. So that some time ago time frame based on Ogden's death means Dumbledore could have obtained this information years ago.

[Eric]

Yep.

[Laura]

Not just in the last year like we've seen him doing with the, with some of his other Horcrux discovery.

[Micah]

Yeah, he's been tracking Voldemort for some time. It's clear that he's been trying to gain as much information as he possibly can on him. And this could be prior to even thinking that Horcruxes were a possibility.

[Andrew]

And speaking of the Dumbledore lie count, this revelation flies in the face of Dumbledore's claim that he had previously told Harry everything he knows. If that were true, then he would have shared a lot more of this information earlier on because he's been tracking Voldemort for a while. He's been researching this for a while.

[Eric]

Yeah, there's tons of stuff that Dumbledore. Dumbledore's full of fun facts that are relevant to Harry that will never quite get conveyed to Harry. And you know, there's a little bit of fun we can have in trying to enumerate them or figure out what they all are. But really I think there is a, a helpful spirit in, in Dumbledore here. He does want to like, convey this. This is the way in which Dumbledore feels comfortable, like telling Harry that he's has to be the one to die or figure out how to destroy a bunch of Horcruxes that are left. Because ultimately we know that that's something that Dumbledore feared revealing to Harry. That's why he waited until last year to even mention the prophecy. So I think that we're getting probably the best version of Dumbledore that Dumbledore is capable of providing right now.

[Micah]

I'm wondering though, for us as readers. And I'm just thinking about this now because Laura, you mentioned how Bob Ogden was the. Not just a member, he was the head of the Department of Magical Law Enforcement. You're sending out a pretty big gun here to deal with Morfin gone. Did any of us pick that up? You're not just sending an Auror or, you know, somebody that further down the totem pole we saw earlier in this book, the head of the Department of Magical Law Enforcement, Amelia Bones, murdered.

[Andrew]

So this registered with me today too. Reading it for today's episode. I do think that says something that they're sending the head of the Magical Enforce Law Enforcement. I think they anticipated some problems. I think they anticipated that this wasn't going to go easy for them.

[Laura]

I see in the discord, no Maj. No problem is calling out that Morphin had priors. And that's kind of what I was thinking too is they've. They've had problems with Morfin and the Gaunt family before. And I think that's why they're sending the big guns in. I also think we have to think about like the timeline here. And this would have been in what, the 1920s, like well before Grindelwald, well before any of like the major modern wizarding conflicts that we know of. So I would just tend to think that approaches to security and what it means to send department heads out would just be different. Kind of thinking about how the, how much the world has changed for all of us since like 9 11, for example. I think we can all think of ways that life was very, very different before that happened. So it kind of makes sense to me when you put it that way.

[Andrew]

I see marvelous treatment of law enforcement similar to how in the Muggle world people are kind of isolated from the rest of society, and they don't like listening to city folk. They. They run by their own rules. They don't. They don't maybe even follow the news. They don't associate with other people. They don't interact with other people.

[Eric]

You know, recognize, like, other authority, you know?

[Andrew]

Exactly. Other than their own personal authority. So when somebody from the city comes in and tries to tell them they have to go to court for something, they freak the hell out. They don't want to be told what to do. They're cut off from the rest of society, in their mind.

[Laura]

Yeah. Well, and we definitely see that in the way that Morfin greets Ogden when he arrives. Because Morfin. Well, first of all, there's a dead snake nailed to the door of the Gaunt house, which is Rip. Quite a gnomon. But then Morphin appears, and he starts yelling at Ogden in Parseltongue. And at first, Harry's kind of confused because he's like, I don't know why you're so confused about what this guy's saying to you. It's pretty clear to me. But then it. It turns out that Morfin is just, like, hissing at him. Literally, like, you're not welcome here. Get out.

[Eric]

Still, if a guy is hissing at me, I'm probably gonna back up a little bit. Like, even if I can't, you'll know.

[Micah]

You've been on the New York City subways, too, eric.

[Eric]

Probably, like, 17 times.

[Laura]

I was gonna say, I think. I think if a rando, like, brandishing a bloody knife and a dead snake is hissing at me, I've received the message that said.

[Eric]

That said, like, I think that it's a perfectly good point that Morfin's not. We see later, he can speak English. And so. And that's, you know, that's a question. Can he actually speak? He can, but by choosing not to, he's also not. Not respecting Ogden. He's not communicating with Ogden in a way that his words are going to be received or understood. So even his warning, even his, you're not welcome here, is not actually meant to convey the sense of danger. It's just meant to scare Ogden.

[Micah]

Yeah. And it's a strong connection to Chamber of Secrets. And Harry's learning that he can speak Parseltongue. So this is another little nugget that's come up that ties us back to Book two.

[Laura]

Definitely. And I think it's also a good time to do a little name origin about the Gaunt family. We were speaking previously about how they are clearly, you know, very isolated from broader society. And we see it brought up both in the descriptions provided of these characters, as well as something Dumbledore says later in the chapter that the Gaunt family kind of, you know, kept it in the family, if you will. The gene pool is a little shallow, right, Micah?

[Micah]

It is, but I think you see that a lot throughout history with what you would call pure blood families, because when you can, you can only marry within your own family in some cases, if you want to keep the bloodlines pure. But we'll talk a little bit about that. As far as the name origin goes for Gaunt, when you're referring to a person, it is, you know, somebody who appears as lean and haggard, especially because of suffering, hunger or age. And I think that's definitely applicable here to both Marvolo and Morfin in terms of how they come across. I think Merope is more a product of the treatment that she's receiving from her father and her brother, but also applicable to her appearance when we first meet her as well.

[Andrew]

Definitely. And I think the last name Gaunt also is symbolic of how, again, separated they are from the rest of society to outsiders, as we see in this chapter, they are other, they are less than. They're kind of stuck with them on the edge of town.

[Micah]

And then Merope the star is often called the lost Pleiad because she was at first not seen by astronomers or charted like her sisters were. One myth says that she hid her face in shame because she had an affair with a mortal man.

[Laura]

That's a great connection.

[Eric]

Wow.

[Micah]

Yeah, there's a lot of mythological ties with Merope, but this one seems to be, like, the most applicable and, you know, give us the best through line given her relationship with Tom Riddle Sr. Yeah.

[Eric]

You know, while we're on this subject, something that I never knew before, Stephen Fry, whose audiobooks I'm listening to this go around for the first time, pronounces it Merope. Merope. I say, when I first read this book, I was like, oh, Merope. And then I realized how stupid that sounds, and I'm like, no, it's Merope. And now I'm kind of on a Maripe kick. So I just want to bring that up as, like, an alternative.

[Andrew]

Well, you do.

[Eric]

You listen.

[Laura]

I. I think as Americans, we learned a lot of lessons about name pronunciations from Harry Potter. I will flat out admit, as a child, when I read the first three books, I thought Seamus was pronounced Seamus.

[Eric]

Seamus, same.

[Laura]

And that's how I said it in my mind for like, three years until I was reading it out loud one day and my dad was like, no.

[Andrew]

And Hermione. We all did the Hermione thing.

[Laura]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Andrew]

All this.

[Eric]

As long as our listeners at home know who of whom we are speaking, then there's no. Nothing wrong with it. No shame in Seamus.

[Micah]

No, I. I remember from studying mythology in college the way that it was always pronounced was Merope. But that could just be a preference of the professor. It could be totally wrong. I don't know.

[Eric]

Yeah, I don't think it's. I don't think it's wrong, but just an alternative.

[Laura]

Something I think is really interesting about Morfin and Merope is when you read their depictions and the way they behave, they come across as almost childlike. Morfin is playing some version of an abusive game with snakes that he's capturing and he's literally sitting by the fireplace, like, humming this pretty violent nursery rhyme that he's apparently come up with. And Merope is. I mean, she's really. It seems like she's just trying to hide and fly under the radar, but in the chapter, Morfin is described as a man. And later on in the chapter, Dumbledore refers to Merope escaping the prison she'd called home for the first 18 years of her life once her father and brother were arrested. So these two are adults.

[Andrew]

Yeah. You get the impression that they've just suffered from a lot of stunted development. And Dumbledore is taking Harry into this memory to, you know, show the Voldemort origin story. And you can see why Tom Riddle Jr. Voldemort had stunted development as well. He was born out of a false romance and has bad family origins. Bad family bloodline, underdeveloped.

[Eric]

It's definitely a sympathetic look at Tom Riddle from the start, like I do. This might be my favorite memory. It's harrowing to read through, but it's such an interesting insight into somewhere that we otherwise would never look. And like Marvolo's pride for where he comes from, despite, as Dumbledore tells Harry, the family fortune that would have come with all this prestige is long squandered even before Marvolo was born. It shows kind of how sad it was and tragic that, you know, how are these people existing and with no formal education, you know, we're shown the kind of home life that Merope has, and it's. It's terrifyingly tragic.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Micah]

And, Laura, to your earlier point about them keeping it in the family, Dumbledore mentions the Gaunts were a Very ancient wizarding family noted for a vein of instability and violence that flourished through generations due to their habit of marrying their own cousins. So there's a very backwoods feeling here and not just from them, but from the house. When we first get the description, and we're really following Bob Ogden as he's navigating the pathway to get to the Gaunt house and he doesn't even realize, or at least Harry doesn't realize initially, that they've finally kind of stumbled upon this cottage. And I think just, you know, more broadly the descriptions that we're getting. Even when Morfin jumps out of the tree. Right. It's, you know, Eric, I know you have something here as well, but it, it's, it's just, it's almost like you've been removed from day to day society. It's.

[Eric]

Yeah. Something else I wanted to point out is that there is actually a physical trait that is assigned to, and has been since book two to Salazar Slytherin. I just had to find this moment in Chamber of Secrets. But when Harry first enters the Chamber of Secrets, this is page 307. Harry had to crane his neck to look up into the giant face above. It was ancient and monkeyish, with a long thin beard that fell almost to the bottom of the wizard's sweeping stone robes. This phrase monkeyish, this term is actually echoed in his great, great, great descendant Morfin, who is also given some simian, you know, monkeyish ape like characteristics. A very interesting, like, I don't know if it, what would you say it's describing more stature or like prominent features in the face? Yeah, yeah.

[Laura]

No, it's interesting. I feel like. Doesn't Marvolo get a similar description specifically around the way he outstretches his arms at one point?

[Eric]

So long arms.

[Laura]

It definitely seems like there's some kind of familial trait here. Which makes me wonder, was Slytherin himself inbred? I mean, it would make sense if he also valued crazy. Yeah, like it would make sense that that family line has always been inbred.

[Eric]

That's an interesting thought. Here's page 202. This man was shorter than the first and oddly proportioned. His shoulders were very broad and his arms overlong, which bright brown eyes, short scrubby hair and wrinkled face gave him the look of a powerful aged monkey. Very interesting stuff. But what I love about that is it goes straight back to the source. Right here is Marvolo bragging about being a descendant of Salazar Slytherin. And if you were to actually look At a statue of Salazar Slytherin, you're like, ah, yeah, I can see it.

[Micah]

Yeah, for sure. And what I don't think most people picked up on was that Southern Hagrid's actually on the back porch.

[Andrew]

Oh yeah.

[Eric]

Of the ship. That's the reason that it's half caved in. He sat on the roof by accident or something.

[Laura]

But. Well, we're going to take one more quick break to go check our ancestry to find out who our famous ancestors are and if there are any fun statues of them out there. But we'll be right back after that.

[Andrew]

Deck your home with blinds. Com. Diy or let us install.

[Eric]

Free design consultation.

[Andrew]

Plus free samples and free shipping.

[Eric]

Blinds.com invented a better way to buy custom high quality window treatments with no showroom markup or waiting around for quotes from pushy salespeople. Saving you time and money for the holidays with upfront pricing right on our website.

[Andrew]

Go right now to blinds.com satisfaction guaranteed.

[Micah]

Satisfaction guaranteed.

[Eric]

Head to blinds.com now for up to 50 off with minimum purchase plus a free professional measure. Blinds.com rules and restrictions may apply no.

[Laura]

Matter what's on your plate or your mind. This holiday season, the UPS store wants to help with our pack and ship guarantee. We're helping gifts arrive safely to guarantee more. They know me so well. Picture perfect gift. We're helping guarantee more smiles with our pack and ship guarantee. If we pack it and ship it, we guarantee it.

[Eric]

Your items arrive safe or your money back.

[Laura]

Stop by your local the UPS Store for holiday help shipping holiday gifts. Visit the upstore.com guaranty for full details. Most locations are independently owned. Products, services, prices and hours of operation may vary. See center for details. Okay, so we're back. And we are at the point in this memory where Bob Ogden is now beyond just confronting Morfin, who is still like wanting to brandish his knife at him. He's letting Marvolo, his father, know that Morfin is being charged with not only performing magic in front of a muggle, but performing it on a muggle. And it's really interesting in this whole exchange to see how Marvolo is really quick to defend his son for his criminal activity, but he's so ready to throw Merope under the bus for the slightest mistake. She drops a pan and he like loses his mind. Meanwhile, his son, as was called out in the discord, literally has priors and he's just like, whatever. It was a muggle. Who cares what happened, right? But it's like, don't drop the pans.

[Eric]

It'S his son can do no wrong, his daughter can do no right.

[Laura]

Yep, A hundred percent. So we learned that Morfin had attacked a Muggle the prior day, leaving him covered with hives. And it's confirmed that the muggle that he attacked was Tom Riddle Sr. Who.

[Eric]

Was riding by, unfortunately, has forgotten about the whole thing.

[Laura]

Yes. Riding by with his fiance. And the reason that Morfin attacks him in the first place is because he's caught on to the fact that his sister Merope is kind of sweet on this Muggle man. So Morfin not only attacks Tom Riddle Sr. But he chooses this opportunity to throw his sister under the bus and say, yeah, I did it, because she has a crush on that nasty Muggle. But it feels like he's also doing it in this moment to elicit a response from his father, because of course, Marvolo's going to be embarrassed that it's being revealed in front of this stranger that his daughter has feelings for a Muggle.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Tensions are already high, and he's bringing this up when Marvolo is already in a vulnerable position. So what do you make of that? That he wants to get his sister into more trouble?

[Laura]

Yeah, I mean, I think it's deflection, Right?

[Eric]

Yeah, definitely. I do think there is a point where Marvolo tells Morphin to be quiet, to basically, like, stop confessing. There's some ounce of intelligence and awareness in Marvolo that is lost on Morfin. And in that moment, I think Morfin's bored. I think that he wants to get a rise to deflect and put attention on his sister again, which. Which works only too well. It's just a. A really shitty thing to do because she is poor. Merope is still, like, just constantly being abused there.

[Andrew]

Right.

[Micah]

And Marvolo, much like another wizarding family we know, thinks that last name and legacy trump criminal activity. And that only works in so much to your point, Eric, if Morfin keeps his mouth shut, if he. If he doesn't keep basically bragging about what he's done. And we see Marvolo really double, triple down on the fact that they're the last living descendants of Salazar Slytherin. And the hope is that is going to somehow absolve his son from this crime that he's committed.

[Laura]

Right? And I mean, it's. It's kind of pathetic. Very sad, actually, because as Ogden is like, okay, I don't really care about your pure blood status. Marvillo's just like, look at this jewelry that came from my Ancestor Salazar Slytherin. We're way too important for these Ministry summons. Okay.

[Eric]

Look at this stuff. Isn't it neat? Exactly.

[Laura]

And it's like, these are probably the most valuable things that they own.

[Eric]

Yeah. I mean, one of them is a Deathly Hallow, for crying out loud. Brobi doesn't know that.

[Micah]

No doubt he does. So one of the other things with Marbolo that is very clear in this chapter is that he is physically abusive of Merope, so much so that it suppresses her magical abilities.

[Eric]

And.

[Micah]

And this comes up when Dumbledore is talking about, you know, how she was able to brew a love potion that could then, you know, keep Tom Riddle Sr. Under her control. So clearly, because of the way she's being treated, her magical ability has been suppressed. And we're all too familiar with. With that from another sibling of another character that we know very well.

[Eric]

It's interesting because one of the things that I loved about the Fantastic Beasts film series, you guys remember that?

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Eric]

For a couple years, this idea of an Obscurus or an Obscurial, as the person who has an Obscurus, and it's. When your magic is suppressed, it turns inward and eventually explodes out of you. The way we see it happening with Credence. And let's just say that only movie one exists. But yeah, so I was thinking, you know, with. With Merope here, what we know about her, she very easily could have been on the path to developing something like an Obscurus if she wasn't already.

[Andrew]

Right. We don't know for sure that she wasn't, because you can go in and out of it, transform if you want. It's Morphin Time, as has been brought up in the chat. But. Yeah, but I think it's a. It's a good connection because both of these girls have faced great tragedies. Their faults, in Merope's case, just her.

[Eric]

Family members and Ariana for being, you know, we know what happened with her. She also was traumatized and had to be kept.

[Laura]

I mean, I would venture to say that probably what saves Merope from that fate is her father and brother being carted off to Azkaban.

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah, right.

[Laura]

And so then she. She's able to escape, as Dumbledore said, she's able to escape that life, and it's not. The circumstances are not great, but she does the only thing she can think of to do because, again, like we know, neither of the Gaunt children receive formal educations. It also made me want to ask the question about, you know, Descendants of Salazar Slytherin. Do we think that the descendants of Slytherin chose not to send their children to Hogwarts once he left the school?

[Eric]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Laura]

And that's like a multi generational form of protest. They're like, we're gonna be ignorant.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Wow.

[Eric]

That's.

[Andrew]

If he's not here, school's not worth our time.

[Micah]

I can see that. So I did want to briefly mention Tom Riddle Sr. And Cecilia because I think they are very much the Muggle world equivalents of the Malfoys and other pure blood families that we encounter in this series. Because it is very interesting that both Tom Riddle Sr. And Marvolo Gaunt are looking down on each other.

[Laura]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Eric]

And Cecilia has this line where it's like, couldn't your father clear that out, that hovel over there? And he's like, well, actually it's not our property, believe that or not.

[Micah]

So I know Marvolo is an ass, but I want to make sure we give Tom Riddle Sr. His due here as well, because he's not a nice guy.

[Eric]

Well, I see.

[Micah]

From what we see.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah.

[Laura]

No, he's not. But he, it. He also is a victim of what is going to happen to him, you know, without his consent. And we do learn a little more about that later where Dumbledore kind of does his guesswork, as he calls it, earlier on in the chapter, to kind of piece together what happens. But it's very clear that after Morfin and Marvillo go to Azkaban, that's when Merope kind of seizes the chance to bewitch, if you will, Tom Riddle Sr. And Preggo and get out. And we're later gonna learn about what happens to her after that. But bringing it back to Ogden's memory being the subject of what Harry and Dumbledore are looking at tonight, Ogden ultimately flees after trying to save Merope from her father's physical abuse. When he does that, Morphin tries to attack him and so he just gives up and takes off. We find out later that he actually came back with reinforcements. That's one of the other details that Dumbledore fills in the blanks on when he and Harry get back to the office. But Harry, who's being very observant, which I'm really proud of, because there are a lot of times where Harry is not observant at all. And he misses stuff that is so infuriating. He actually notices the ring that Dumbledore was wearing the night that they went to get Slughorn he notices that the stone that has the Peveril coat of arms on it is cracked.

[Andrew]

Yeah, good catch. And I think this is one reason, as I think we may have said earlier, that Dumbledore is taking Harry into these memories. Why he is sharing these wild guesses with him and taking big swings. He wants Harry to start thinking critically about, you know, Tom Riddle jr's and Voldemort's life so he can figure out the pieces and ultimately defeat Voldemort come next year. So I. It makes a lot of sense.

[Eric]

Why?

[Andrew]

You know, we were asking earlier, like, you know, should Harry trust Dumbledore? I was asking earlier, should Harry trust Dumbledore? When Dumbledore's like, yeah, you know, these are big guesses. But this is all to get him thinking differently and critically. And we see it working.

[Laura]

Mm.

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Dumbledore must have had a gleam of triumph in his eye, knowing. Seeing Harry think critically about all this.

[Laura]

Gleam of triumph, but also being like, you're still gonna have to figure some of this out, my man.

[Micah]

Yeah, have fun.

[Andrew]

The clocks are ticking.

[Eric]

Gee, I hope your classmate summons Horcrug's books for my study after I die at the end of this year. Hope she thinks to do that. Cause otherwise there's no plot next year.

[Andrew]

So, yes, please do share this information with Ron and Hermione. I totally trust them and that's why you can share this info.

[Micah]

Well, I feel like he knows he's going to share it, probably regardless of what Dumbledore says.

[Eric]

Please tell them not to tell anybody. Like, like, yes, Harry, it's okay, you can.

[Andrew]

Important thing.

[Eric]

Can you tell Hermione not to tell her? What? One other. Does she have any other friends besides Ron and Harry?

[Laura]

Yeah. I feel like the one I'd worry about is Ron, honestly. And I love Ron, but Ron sometimes runs off at the mouth. Any other odds and ends we want to touch on before we get to mvp?

[Andrew]

I just wanted to make clear here at the end, like, what were the big reasons why Dumbledore showed Harry this memory, this specific memory we're introduced to the Horcrux.

[Micah]

Andrew.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Yeah. What do you think, Micah? Why?

[Eric]

Why?

[Andrew]

Why did I do it?

[Micah]

It's all about the Horcruxes, baby. Oh, yeah, that's what it comes down to. It was to reveal the ring in the locket. And then in just a few chapters from now, we get the Mrs. Cole memory, where Dumbledore proceeds to get her drunk to get the information out of her. But that's really to reveal the cave location to us and the importance of where Voldemort may have hidden one of his Horcruxes. And then a little bit later on in Half Blood Prince, we get the cup memory with Hepzibah smith in chapter 20. So the memories are really. Yes, they are to give us backstory on Voldemort, but it's really to allow, I think, both Dumbledore and Harry to start to figure out what items Voldemort used for his Horcruxes.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And even though Harry's a kid, I think probably Dumbledore finds it very helpful to bounce ideas off of somebody. So there's that stuff. Great points, Micah. It's all about the Horcruxes hashtag. But also, like I said earlier, just establishing Tom Riddle jr's origins. He was born out of a love potion. His parents never loved each other, truly. And his birth came under false pretenses. And his mom's side of the family were Muggle hating, impoverished loners who no one liked. It just all builds a case for why Voldemort became the person that he did and why he couldn't foresee love being a powerful weapon.

[Laura]

Yeah. And it is so fascinating to see his family of origin, even though he doesn't grow up with them, because he places so much emphasis on being a descendant, a direct descendant of Salazar Slytherin. And it's like, honestly, man, if you, if you had to pick which environment you would have been better growing up in your mother's family or your father's family. I'm not saying Tom Riddle Sr. Was any great shakes, but he would have had a better upbringing with his Muggle father than what ended up happening as a result of his pure blood mother and her actions.

[Eric]

Yeah, you'd have to go back several generations or more to find a descendant of Salazar Slytherin that was anything to be proud of, I think.

[Laura]

Yeah. Well, we're gonna ask a related question in our links line coming up, but before we get to that, it is time for MVP of the Week. And this week, we're gonna be giving Bob Ogden his flowers. I think he had some great moments in this chapter. So I wanted to ask y', all, what are the best Bob moments in the House of Gaunt chapter?

[Eric]

The Bits of Bob.

[Andrew]

So when Gaunt says, you can't walk in here and not expect my son to defend himself, Ogden says, defend himself against what, man? And the reason I'm calling that out is it sounds so American. Hey, man. Defend himself against what, man? That's my best Jamie doing In America.

[Micah]

I can see a little bit of, like, the British element to that.

[Andrew]

No, I guess it would make more sense. Yeah. Oh, all right. Well, I still loved how blunt it was.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Eric]

I'm gonna give flowers to Bob for just escaping the shack. Marvolo might have made fun of some fancy shoes if he was wearing them, but they helped him escape with his life. So good for Bob.

[Micah]

I really liked. It was during the conversation where Marvolo was trying to absolve his son of what he had done to Tom Riddle Sr. And Bob says, it's a matter of law, sir, not opinion.

[Laura]

And on a related note, when Marvolo pivots to trying to attempt establish his superiority based on bloodline and his suspicion that Ogden's family must be a bunch of dirty Muggles, Ogden says, I'm afraid that neither your ancestors nor mine have anything to do with the matter in hand.

[Andrew]

Love it.

[Eric]

There you go, Bob.

[Andrew]

There's some love for you this holiday season.

[Laura]

He deserves it. And now we're going to get into this Week's links line slug club level patrons over at patreon.commmugglecast have answered this week's question, which was, what do you think Salazar Slytherin would have thought about the Gaunts as his direct descendants?

[Eric]

Ooh.

[Andrew]

Justin, who's listening live tonight, said he would have just killed them. It's undeniable that he was interested in his legacy. He left behind a mudblood murder trap. I think we need to reevaluate Slytherin apologists in this new age of shameless grifting and racism. Oh, all right.

[Eric]

Michael says he would view their living conditions as lack of ambition. I agree with that.

[Andrew]

That's not very Slytherin.

[Micah]

Like Zachary says, I think he'd be overwhelmingly disgusted. Marvolo and his ilk are pretty much the Uncle Rico's of his name. Nice Napoleon Dynamite reference. Boasting of their lineage but having nothing to show but words and a locket. I think if he could have chosen a modern family, it would be the Malfoys. They not only have wealth, but influence over the ministry.

[Laura]

Yeah. Matthew says, I think if he saw them, he would be forced to accept the frailty of his bigoted worldview. His heart would turn and he'd realize that Muggle borns and pure blood should all live together in harmony. Because that's what people do when they see evidence that contradicts their worldviews. Right.

[Andrew]

Susan said, I think he would be super disappointed in the living conditions of his descendants. And while he might and while he might not like Voldy's parentage, he might be pleased with his plans for the.

[Eric]

Wizarding world, Kayla says, I think he would be amused by them. I think he would feel kind of respected but also kind of embarrassed. I think it would be one of those moments where you feel half good and half bad about a situation.

[Micah]

And finally, Rachel says, I think he'd be happy to see his descendants have maintained their Pure Blood status, but dismayed by their living conditions. I'm not sure what he'd make of Tom Riddle Jr. A half blood but also a very powerful wizard who deeply believes in what Salazar stood for.

[Eric]

I do think Salazar would be super proud of how Voldemort wielded the Basilisk and Kill and, you know, attacked a bunch of students in Year two. I think he'd be very proud of that.

[Andrew]

Thanks everyone who contributed to our links line today, and there are more responses over on the post if patrons want to go and check those out. If you have any feedback about today's episode, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo that you record on your phone to mochacastmail.com you can also reach out via the Spotify comments, the YouTube comments, social media, whatever is convenient for you. And speaking of feedback, our final episode of the year is next week and we will close out 2025 with a special Muggle Mail episode. So look forward to that. Another year gone.

[Eric]

I also want to shout out real quick. Camille, who's listening live, actually has a Tarot podcast that she mentioned. So earlier we were talking about Trelawney's predictions. The podcast is called Everyday Tarot and evidently she did a whole series of divination in the Harry Potter books and how Trelawney's write a lot of time but doubts herself. So check out Everyday Tarot. If you haven't gotten enough Tarot discussion.

[Andrew]

You can visit mugglecust.com for links to our social media, our Patreon, our transcripts, our favorite episodes, and lots more. And if looking for more podcasting from the four of us, you can listen to our other podcasts, Millennial and what the Hype for more pop culture and real world talk. And now it's time for a quiz itch.

[Eric]

This week's question. In William Shakespeare's famous love story Romeo and Juliet, Juliet drinks a potion to fake her death, putting her to sleep for over a day. Where is she when she drinks it? The correct answer was her bedchamber. Sad, sad moment. 58% of people with the correct answer said they didn't look it up. Good on you for remembering your middle to high school assignment. Congratulations, everybody. And the correct answers were submitted by. Pants. A Healthy Breeze. Cheese shark. Faking your own death is peak Dumbledore. Actually, Gwen Weasley, it's Juliet, not Juliet. It's Romeo, not Romeo. Mercutio and Romeo should have got together. Mercutio sounds like a Harry Potter spell. Quid witch teacher of Muggles. And that bookish Hufflepuff. Fun names as usual. Here is next week's quizzic question. In this chapter, we first see Salazar Slytherin's locket around the neck of Merope. Gaunt or Merope, which British queen popularized lockets during her reign often wearing lockets to commemorate her friends and loved ones? Submit your answer to us on the Mugglecast website using the Quizzage form [e-mail] quizzitch if you're already on our website doing some stuff, click on Quizzage from the main nav.

[Andrew]

Thanks everybody for listening. We'll see you next week for our final episode of the year here. I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Laura]

And I'm Laura.

[Andrew]

We gotta go. It's Morphin Time. Bye, everyone. By.

[Micah]

Sam.