Privet Drive Revenge Tour (HBP Chapter 3, 'Will and Won’t')

Summary

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MuggleCast: Privet Drive Revenge Tour (HBP Chapter 3, "Will and Won’t")

Episode Summary & In-Depth Breakdown
Podcast: MuggleCast – The Harry Potter Re-Read Podcast
Date: October 21, 2025
Hosts: Andrew, Eric, Micah, and Meg

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Overview

This episode of MuggleCast resumes the Chapter-by-Chapter analysis of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, focusing on Chapter 3: "Will and Won’t." The hosts examine the intricacies of Harry’s last summer at Privet Drive, Dumbledore’s fateful visit, the Wizarding World’s tense state under Voldemort, and J.K. Rowling’s social commentary woven through the Ministry’s leaflets. The group dives deep into character motivations, Dumbledore's confrontational tactics with the Dursleys, and how this crucial moment sets up both Harry and Dudley’s future.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Chapter Title Meaning and Wordplay

[07:15] Meg:

• The hosts debate whether “Will and Won’t” is a weak title.
• Meg explains the play on words: it refers to both Sirius’s will and Kreacher’s repeated, defiant “won’t.”
  • Quote [07:15] Meg: “It's about the reading of Sirius's will, and you have Kreacher saying 'won't,' which is the opposite of the other definition of will… It's not the best chapter title, but I get it.”
• Group suggests alternate titles: "Deal With It" (Andrew), "When Creature Met Petunia" (Micah), and "Angry Door" (Eric).

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2. Harry’s State of Mind and Privet Drive Return

[08:22] Micah, [09:42] Eric, [09:52] Andrew:

• Harry’s classic undignified introduction: asleep against the window, glasses askew.

• The significance of showing the “Chosen One” as an ordinary, messy teenager.

• Juxtaposition emphasized: wizarding savior, but just as human and flawed as anyone else.

  "This is one of the most important wizards of our time. And yet he's just like us. He snores too."
  — Andrew [09:52]

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3. The Ministry’s Leaflets: Social Paranoia and Real-World Parallels

[11:10]–[22:18] Entire panel:

• Harry’s floor is littered with wizarding newspapers and a pamphlet: “Protect your Home and Family Against the Dark Forces.”

• Guidelines include not being outside alone after dark, buddy system, security questions for loved ones, looking for signs of Polyjuice/Imperius Curse.

  "These tips do kind of go from zero to a hundred. By the end it's like, by the way, there might be zombies."
  — Meg [19:42]

• Panel draws parallels to post-9/11 governmental policies and fear-driven public messaging.

  • Quote [21:25] Micah: “Rowling's portrayal of a paranoid and fear-driven government may actually reflect her perspective of the US and UK governments and what they did following the events of 9/11.”

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4. Dumbledore’s Arrival: The Late-Night Visit & Its Rudeness

[23:59]–[27:59] Andrew, Eric, Micah, Meg:

• Debate about Dumbledore showing up so late (11PM) and disregarding Ministry advice.
• Analysis of why the Dursleys and Harry are all awake — and the chaos that results.
• The group speculates that Dumbledore aims to catch the Dursleys off-guard and possibly deliver his message when they’re most unsettled.
  • "As we see, before long he starts really verbally taking them down. And by showing up late they're going to be even more unprepared than they may have been earlier in the day."
    — Andrew [24:41]
• Connections made to adult perspectives: all the hosts would be irritated by a visitor at that hour, echoing the Dursleys’ potential outrage.

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5. Harry’s Doubts and Emotional Realism

[27:59]–[33:51] Meg, Andrew, Eric, Micah:

• Harry’s fear Dumbledore might not come, stemming from his treatment in Order of the Phoenix and a lifetime of letdowns by both Dursleys and authority figures.
• Parallels drawn with real-life feelings: “This is too good to be true.”
  • Andrew shares travel anxieties; Eric recounts the disbelief of winning concert tickets; Meg likens the moment to moving away for college.
• Quote [29:59] Meg: "He could not face packing his trunk, being let down and then having to unpack it again. ... He's constantly been let down when he's with the Dursleys and it, it would be terrible to, to get his hopes up and then to realize, no, they're dashed. I am still here.”

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6. Dumbledore Faces the Dursleys: The Privet Drive Revenge Tour

[34:05]–[51:13] Entire panel:

• Dumbledore’s arrival is condescending, sarcastic; he politely introduces himself as if he doesn’t already know the Dursleys’ significance.

  • Quote [41:36] Micah: “This is the Privet Drive revenge tour. Right. This is an opportunity for Dumbledore to step foot in Privet Drive and I think probably for himself, even more so than Harry, at least for this very brief period of time, rectify what's been done over the last almost 16 years of Harry's life.”

• The hosts emphasize this is the last major Dumbledore-Dursley interaction and lament its absence from the film.

Dumbledore’s Approach:

• He “pantses” the Dursleys (Andrew/Micah’s term for public humiliation), branding their treatment of Harry as abusive.
  • Quote [42:49] Micah: "This is the real opportunity, though, for Dumbledore to come face to face with the Dursleys and to give them their comeuppance."
• Discussion on how Dumbledore’s behavior is partly performative, meant to bond with Harry and possibly assuage Dumbledore’s own guilt.

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7. Dumbledore’s Criticism of Dudley and Parenting Ethics

[51:13]–[54:27] Micah, Meg, Eric:

• Analysis of Dumbledore not only calling out the Dursleys’ treatment of Harry but also judging their parenting of Dudley.
• The group questions whether this oversteps, particularly since Dumbledore doesn’t really know Dudley.
  • Quote [52:32] Eric: “I do think it crosses a line because he doesn't know Dudley. ... Any judgment that he has just made about Dudley just happened and is superficial, like, by definition.”
• Meg suggests this moment is pivotal for Dudley’s later character development: being publicly chastised causes self-reflection, leading to his kinder attitude in book seven.

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8. The Will Reading & Kreacher's Transfer

[54:31]–[57:03] Micah, Eric, Meg:

• Dumbledore calls Kreacher into the spotless Dursley living room to test Harry’s inheritance.
• The event is jarring for the Dursleys (and cruel to Kreacher), further “tainting” their ordered world with magic.
  • Quote [55:41] Meg: "It's also extremely unkind to Kreacher…he didn’t ask to be brought into this brand new environment with people he doesn't know. ... Dumbledore's not treating him very well either."
• Discussion that this wizarding display is mostly unnecessary, likely done for maximum Dursley discomfort.

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9. Tight Chapter Connections and Structure of Half-Blood Prince

[35:29]–[36:19] Eric:

• Noting how tightly written this book is, with callbacks and setups from earlier chapters.
• Snape’s earlier references to Dumbledore’s hand, and Petunia’s secret history, reflect a web of internal consistencies.
  • Quote [36:19] Eric: “This book has internal consistency... it’s just zippy. ... Book six is really tightly written and these are some of the ways in which it is.”

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10. Humor & Fandom Moments

• Fun banter about matching MuggleCast shirts, underappreciated t-shirt merch, and “Dursley De-pantsing” as a potential episode title.
• Meg recounts an old movie-theater memory where a friend once expected Dumbledore to appear at Harry’s window in Chamber of Secrets—foreshadowed, in a sense, by this scene.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [25:14] Andrew: “If Dumbledore showed up at 11pm I'd be like, I did not issue a booty call. So what are you doing?”
• [41:36] Micah: “This is the Privet Drive revenge tour… Dumbledore to step foot in Privet Drive and I think probably for himself, even more so than Harry… rectify what's been done…”
• [19:42] Meg: “These tips do kind of go from zero to a hundred. Like by the end it's like, by the way, there might be zombies. Look out.”
• [52:32] Eric: "I do think it crosses a line because he doesn't know Dudley. ... Any judgment that he has just made about Dudley just happened and is superficial, like, by definition."
• [54:41] Meg: "It's also extremely unkind to Kreacher... he didn’t ask to be brought into this brand new environment with people he doesn't know. ... Dumbledore's not treating him very well either."
• [29:59] Meg: "He could not face packing his trunk, being let down and then having to unpack it again. ... He's constantly been let down when he's with the Dursleys and it, it would be terrible to, to get his hopes up and then to realize, no, they're dashed. I am still here.”
• [41:15] Meg: “You start realizing like, wow, Dumbledore has actually been very, very hands off for the role that Dumbledore had with putting Harry with the Dursleys.”
• [48:51] Andrew: “I don't have a good excuse for this, but I think that he is mad at himself and the situation and he's mad that the only family he could leave Harry with were these abusive losers and he hoped they would do better, but they didn't.”
• [53:45] Eric: “So between that and then also whatever he saw when the Dementors attacked those two things, you can draw a straight line connecting between Dudley at the beginning of book five when he's a bully and what happens with book seven, like that development.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [05:40] Chapter discussion begins
• [07:09] The meaning behind “Will and Won’t”
• [09:37] Harry’s undignified reintroduction at Privet Drive
• [11:22] The Ministry’s leaflets: advice and context
• [21:25] Rowling’s post-9/11 government parallels
• [23:59] Dumbledore’s late-night arrival at the Dursleys
• [29:59] Harry’s doubt and parallels to real life
• [34:05] Dumbledore’s arrival and show of power at Privet Drive
• [41:36] The “Privet Drive revenge tour” and Dumbledore's comeuppance
• [51:13] Dumbledore’s critique of the Dursleys’ parenting
• [54:41] Kreacher arrives: magical violation (and Dumbledore’s insensitivity)
• [56:17] Function of the will reading in front of the Dursleys
• [60:05] MVP of the Week: Ministry safety tips

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Episode Highlights & Community Engagement

• Listeners contributed Dumbledore "Yelp Reviews" of the Dursley household (see [61:01]–[64:38]) — from snarky to poetic.
• Concluding with Quizzage, references, witty asides about t-shirt merch, and a communal laugh about the generational disconnect in Harry Potter movie costuming ("76 / 67").

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Conclusion & Takeaways

This episode demonstrates how even a chapter with little “action” can spark layers of analysis about character, theme, and social subtext. The hosts’ blend of humor, personal anecdotes, and critique crafts a deep dive into Half-Blood Prince’s all-important third chapter. Key takeaways:

• The Dursleys’ mistreatment gets both in-universe and meta critique.
• Dumbledore’s flaws, motivations, and emotional distance stand out strongly.
• Rowling’s world-building mirrors real-world politics—especially during moments of societal fear.
• Harry’s insecurities resonate universally, especially in our own moments of hope or doubt.

Next Week: The panel tackles Chapter 4, “Horace Slughorn.”

For more: Join the MuggleCast Patreon for bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and community participation.

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Created by the MuggleCast team, transcripted and organized by Meg.

Transcript

[Eric]

When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn more at WhatsApp.com.

[Meg]

Mutine adjective used to describe an individual whose spirit is unyielding, unconstrained.

[Andrew]

One who navigates life on their own terms, effortlessly. They do not always show up on.

[Meg]

Time, but when they arrive, you notice an individual confident in their contradictions.

[Micah]

They know the rules, but behave as.

[Meg]

If they do not exist. The new fragrance by Miu Miu defined.

[Andrew]

By you this episode is brought to you by Jack Daniels. Jack Daniels and music are made for each other. They share a rhythm in the craft of making something timeless while being a part of legendary nights. From backyard jams to sold out arenas, there's a song in every toast. Please drink responsibly. Responsibility.org, jackDaniels and Old Number 7 are registered trademarks. Tennessee Whiskey, 40% alcohol by volume. Jack Daniel Distillery, Lynchburg, Tennessee. Micah, I think you would be pissed if somebody showed up at 11pm I would too.

[Micah]

I'd be pissed if someone showed up.

[Eric]

At 3pm unannounced or December hates people you all.

[Andrew]

Welcome to Mugglecast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter.

[Eric]

I'm Andrew. I'm Eric.

[Micah]

And I'm Micah.

[Andrew]

And we're your Harry Potter friends, talking about the books and the movies and the upcoming TV show. So make sure you press that follow button in your podcast app and you'll never miss a week with your Harry Potter friends. And this week, pull up an armchair and have a glass of Madame Rosemaryta's finest oak matured mead. Because chapter by chapter continues with chapter three of Half Blood Prince. Will and Won't. That was a long one. And also helping us with today's discussion is Meg. Welcome back to the show, Meg.

[Meg]

Hello. Thank you.

[Andrew]

Pleasure to have you here.

[Meg]

Happy to be back.

[Andrew]

You and Eric are wearing matching Mugglecast 15th anniversary T shirts. Looking good. That's right.

[Meg]

We did not plan this. Or at least I did not plan this.

[Eric]

Yeah, we've reached the stage of coupling where we just wear the same thing. And you know, that's adorable. It's cool. I'm okay with it.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I'm wearing my Harry Potter Wizards Unite shirt. Everybody remember that.

[Eric]

The one that you got at the live event in Indianapolis.

[Andrew]

That's right. That's right. It still fits me. Thank goodness. But the color is similar to your shirt, Eric.

[Eric]

And we got the blue memo.

[Andrew]

Yeah, we're feeling blue today. And Micah's feeling Gryffindor red. That's fine. He's a Gryffindor at heart. We all know this.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Micah]

You tried. Well done.

[Andrew]

Well, listeners, if you love Mugglecast and want to help keep this show as clean as Aunt Petunia's kitchen, we invite you to become a member of our [e-mail] mugglecast and by supporting us, you can get instant access to two bonus episodes of Mugglecast every month. And plus ad free episodes, access to our live streams, a personal video message from one of the Mugglecasters, a physical gift delivered by Al each year and more. And speaking of physical gifts, Eric and I have them right now. The Mugglecast 20th Anniversary Yearbook. These all went out in the mail this week, so listeners who are slug club patrons and filled out the order form keep a mad eye out for the delivery.

[Micah]

And I heard a rumor. Is it true we have the editor of the yearbook on this show this week?

[Eric]

Oh, yeah, the copy editor. Yes, yes.

[Andrew]

Meg copyed it. Yeah.

[Meg]

Unless you find an error, then someone else copyedited that.

[Andrew]

Well, then it was Eric's fault.

[Eric]

You didn't know. It is funny and it is true. There are four typos and I'm so sorry, everyone.

[Micah]

Oh, oh, are they all my name?

[Andrew]

Find all four typos and we'll send you a free month of Patreon.

[Eric]

We'll send you $5 off at the merch store. Yes. Absol.

[Andrew]

Well, thank you, Meg, for helping out with the yearbook.

[Meg]

You're welcome. And it was great fun to do it, to read the entire story of Mugglecast. And I. You know, I think It's a superb 20th anniversary retrospective.

[Andrew]

It's a one of a kind item.

[Eric]

And the exciting thing is we're still writing the story of Mugglecast by being here today. What will the next 20 years hold? We do not know.

[Andrew]

But more gifts for our patrons, that's for sure. So join our [e-mail] mugglecast and you can get next year's gift. If you're looking for other ways to support us, you can leave us a review in your favorite podcast app, you can tell a fellow Muggle about our show, and you can visit mugglecastmerch.com to buy official gear and A little update on the merch store. We just lowered prices on our Overstock store, so visit mugglecastmerch.com, click the overstock store link at the top and grab something like maybe our 19 years later t shirt or the I almost showed off this shirt. But no, not this shirt. The shirt that Eric and Meg are both wearing tonight. The 15th anniversary T shirt.

[Micah]

Oh, come on, Andrew, sell that shirt.

[Andrew]

Buy the shirt off Andrew.

[Micah]

It's a game worn podcaster shirt.

[Andrew]

This won't be cheap.

[Micah]

Sign it.

[Andrew]

My podcast sweats is all over it.

[Eric]

And don't. Yeah, don't wash it before you put it in the mail.

[Micah]

Oh, scent of Andrew.

[Andrew]

All right, well, without further ado, it's time to get into chapter by chapter. And this week we're discussing Half Blood Prince chapter three, Will and Won't.

[Eric]

Lets head over to the Mugglecast Pensieve and explore the time we last spoke about this chapter, which was on episode 380 of Mugglecast, titled Privet Drive Payoff. What you are looking at are memories. This is the most important memory I've collected. It is from Mugglecast episode 380.

[Micah]

Kreacher gets sent off to the Hogwarts kitchens. So that'll be interesting, I'm sure. Later on, what I thought would have also been pretty funny. What if Harry said he had to stay with the Dursleys?

[Eric]

Here on Petunia, you have a willing and helpful servant to help you clean things. Man Creature would just ruin that place. He would just completely destroy it.

[Andrew]

Then again, if Petunia was allowed to control Kreacher, maybe she would actually come to like him.

[Micah]

This memory is everything.

[Andrew]

That would be some bad vibes in that house. Creature and the Dursleys coexisting more than usual. Yeah.

[Micah]

So much like the previous chapter. Spinner's End. The title of this chapter you could make the argument has multiple meanings because I was just looking at it. I said will and won't. Like, that's pretty lazy.

[Andrew]

Honestly, I don't get this chapter title. I don't like this at all. This was a lazy chapter title.

[Eric]

I was in the same boat until Meg explained it to me earlier in the week. Meg, would you take it away?

[Meg]

I feel like so many people don't understand it. And it's like, well, it's about the reading of Sirius's will and you have Kreacher saying won't, which is the opposite of the other definition of will. Yeah, and yeah, it's not the best chapter title, but like it is Kind of like.

[Eric]

Ha, ha.

[Meg]

I get it.

[Andrew]

The word play is admirable, but it's still just basic to me.

[Eric]

Should we do an impromptu rename the chapter at the end of this discussion?

[Andrew]

At the end.

[Micah]

What did we do last time we read this chapter? Did we have renamed the chapter?

[Meg]

I'll take a quick peek.

[Micah]

We should take a look. Read those.

[Eric]

Oh, we did do it. Micah. Yours was When Creature Met Petunia.

[Andrew]

Mine was Deal With It.

[Micah]

Yeah, yeah.

[Eric]

And I did Angry Door. Angry Hyphen Door.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Eric]

Yeah. Ours were actually probably no better.

[Andrew]

I like Angry Door.

[Eric]

I like yours as well. Deal With It. Yeah. And Micah's is deeply straightforward.

[Micah]

Well, it's a play on When Harry Met Sally.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Micah]

But anyway, Harry's back. This only took us two chapters to get here, but we finally are with Harry back on Privet Drive. He's a little out of it, though. He's not quite present. Right, Eric?

[Eric]

He's not quite conscious.

[Micah]

He's not quite conscious snoring a little bit.

[Eric]

It's funny because there's now this trend from book five and book six where Harry's. The book opens on Harry, or the chapter that opens with Harry opens with Harry in a compromising position. Like last year, if you remember. He's in a flower bed. He's, like, hiding, trying to, like, listen, eavesdrop onto the news to, like, pick stuff up. It's just like Harry's in a hydrangea bush or whatever. Now he's sitting in his bedroom, he is snoring loudly. And he, quote, had fallen asleep with one side of his face pressed against the cold window pane his glasses askew and his mouth wide open. This is a very undignified position for the Chosen One, our hero Harry, to be found in. And I gotta say, I like it because it reminds me of being 16 and not caring how I fell asleep or what it looked like to any.

[Micah]

He's had a year, too. I mean, give him a break. He just got back from the Ministry where he was fighting with Death Eaters and Voldemort and.

[Eric]

Yeah, you know, I was going to give him crap about his dirty room, but you're right, he's probably been a little depressed.

[Micah]

He's a teenager too.

[Meg]

Yeah.

[Micah]

But I think Messy room.

[Andrew]

I think these descriptions that we see more than once of Harry in the openings of these books is. It's a very, like, purposeful juxtaposition. This is one of the most important wizards of our time. And yet he's just like us. He Snores too. He hangs out in the flower bed just like any other average witcher wizard might.

[Meg]

Well, and especially after the first two chapters of this book, which don't feature Harry, just discussion of him. Like Fudge showing up to tell the Muggle prime Minister this boy Harry Potter has defeated the Dark Lord, so don't worry about him. And then Rufus Scrimgeour showing up and saying like, yeah, we're trying to get Harry Potter on our side. And then it's like, da, da, da, here we finally meet him and he's sleeping on the window. Although in the previous chapter, Snape did say something like about Harry, like scarcely even belonging at Hogwarts. It's like if Snape could see him now.

[Micah]

What we do get at the very start of the chapter is a look at some of the headlines that are strewn around Harry's room. There's a bunch of newspaper clippings and one of them mentions the new Minister for Magic who we met just a couple of chapters ago in Rufus Scrimjar. And he's got a beef already with Dumbledore. And it's been five minutes that good old Rufus has been Minister for Magic and he's already button heads with Dumbledore. But Eric, there's a reason why.

[Eric]

Right, Yeah, I think this is. I think it's pretty safe to suggest that Meg mentioned this a moment earlier but in chapter one of this book Fudge talked about Harry and how they're trying to. Or they have this idea to recruit him. This is a quote from chapter one. The other minister. I've been writing to Dumbledore twice a day for the past fortnight, but he won't budge. If he had just been prepared to persuade the boy, I might still be. And I take that to mean he wants to persuade the boy to basically be the face of the Ministry's efforts to track Voldemort. It's exactly the stuff that Scrimjour eventually asks Harry to do when he comes to deliver the Will and testament of Dumbledore at the beginning of the next book. So what's interesting to me is there's, you know, Scrimjour did not. Does not have a different idea. Scrimgeour wants the same thing. They want Harry to be their spokesperson. And it seems like from this point all the way to this time next year, like all the way till next summer, they don't get a better idea. There's no better idea to save face.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it seems to me Dumbledore doesn't have the patience right now for another new minister entering the picture. And as he especially doesn't have the patience when it seems like it's more of the same so far, he want to. He wants to take matters into his own hands. He doesn't want Harry to be their pawn.

[Eric]

Right. And Harry wouldn't even if he was asked, wouldn't. Wouldn't do it.

[Meg]

Is it a little bit hypocritical of Dumbledore to be saying this when Dumbledore kind of uses Harry as a pawn? It's almost like Dumbledore is saying to the Ministry like, no, Harry is my chess piece. Which, you know, there is the care there between Dumbledore and Harry and there's not that between Harry and the Ministry. So there's that difference.

[Micah]

But after how Dumbledore treated Harry all throughout Order of the Phoenix. And it's worth noting that Harry is awaiting Dumbledore's arrival this evening when we are in his bedroom and he's somewhat actually unsure as to whether or not Dumbledore is actually going to show up.

[Andrew]

And I think the difference between Dumbledore asking help of Harry versus the Ministry is that Dumbledore has a close relationship with Harry. Dumbledore isn't looking to parade him out on stage and have him talk. They're working behind the scenes.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Meg]

Dumbledore also didn't spend a year smearing Harry's name, right?

[Eric]

No. He spent a year ignoring Harry completely when he needed him the most.

[Andrew]

And Dumbledore has Harry's best interests at heart as well. The Ministry does not.

[Eric]

Oh, maybe.

[Andrew]

Yeah. You might be able to debate that more than the Ministry. The Ministry cares less about Harry than Dumbledore does.

[Micah]

Yeah, they're looking for a figurehead. They're looking for somebody for the wizarding world to really rally behind.

[Eric]

Well, right. And Scrimjow is this accomplished Auror who got the role for very obvious, according to the Muggle Prime Minister reasons he's a father. He's the head of Magical Law Enforcement of the R department at the head of Magical Law Enforcement. So I feel like this guy surely could come up with some level of something that, you know, in the absence of Harry's participation. But something that we see, you know, from Scrimjour is I think just a fundamental inability to actually deal with this kind of thing. I mean, Scrimjour unfortunately is killed shortly after he meets with Harry next year and he wasn't able to prevent a full on Death Eater takeover of the Ministry or anything. In fact, he probably just slowed Voldemort slightly. And so it's a shame because what seems what appears to be a, you know, a very competent Minister for Magic and an accomplished Dark wizard fighter, catcher, whatever, does not necessarily make a good politician or somebody who's going to be able to really actually meet the moment, unfortunately. So I don't think things would have changed much if Harry had said. If Dumbledore had allowed Harry to be the spokesperson and if Harry had said yes, then I still don't think things would have changed for the Ministry, unfortunately. And in fact, they would have tried less hard to actually warn the wizarding public and do their real jobs if they had Harry backing them.

[Micah]

Goes beyond that, though, because I think they want insight into how to go about destroying Voldemort, and Dumbledore is not about to share that information with.

[Eric]

That's right too.

[Micah]

So that's a big piece of this. But I, I also think that Scrimgr got put into a situation that is just too big for him to handle in this particular moment. Like, he's stepping into an impossible situation and he's probably trying to tie up as many loose ends as he can. And he figures, okay, well, if Fudge couldn't get Dumbledore to budge on Harry, maybe I can. But it's clear that doesn't work either, so. And there's plenty of other things that he needs to put his attention towards.

[Eric]

Yeah, look, that's fair. I. I think that's safe to say that the, the situation that Scrimjour inherited now is based on and due to 100% fudge's 16 years of incompetent reign and not actually preparing for Voldemort's return in any way, shape or form.

[Meg]

It might also have something to do with just the nature that it takes to be a politician. Like the type of person who would be saying, no, let's not get this teenage boy involved here, let's let him live his life. Is maybe not the same type of person who would say, yes, I will be the new Minister for Magic.

[Eric]

That makes a lot of sense because it's like very transactional. It's politics is. Transaction is like, what does this side want? What does this side want? What do we need? What would be good for the public? That kind of needs different skill sets.

[Micah]

Speaking of the Ministry, one of the pieces of information that we get that is on Harry's floor is protecting your home and family against the dark forces. And this is a list of to dos, basically. And I'm wondering, what do we make of this? Guidance to the wizarding community to protect them from Death Eaters.

[Andrew]

It's really scary and obviously too little too late. I mean, two of the things that they lead off with, first of all, don't leave the house alone and then don't be outside after dark. And this is a terrifying situation to be in based on those alone. And I would think the wizarding population is pissed that their government let things get this bad where they can't even live their everyday lives at this point without worrying about a Death Eater or dementor.

[Eric]

Right. All of a sudden it's not only is he back, but it's bad immediately. Like all the wizarding clubs are closed. Yeah.

[Andrew]

Oh, it's real and it's been happening. And maybe we should have sent you these guidelines sooner actually, because bad stuff has been happening for a while.

[Eric]

Yeah, I mean, the second best time for them to send this is now. But the first was literally anytime before this. I do think, though, it's good they did something. I don't find fault with any of the tips, particularly. And especially like the first one, for instance, which is terrifying to read. Don't go alone anywhere is ultimately good advice. The buddy system, right? So no matter who, if, if somebody's looking to attack you, then they're facing two wizards instead of one. You know, that seems like sound advice. And unfortunately the Ministry is having to play catch up because the Minister wouldn't allow the possibility to acknowledge Voldemort's existence sooner. So you're gonna get, you know, it's gonna seem like a lot at first because they're trying to cover lost ground.

[Micah]

Right. And I would even say scarier than those first two is have security questions for the people who are closest to you just in case they're taking Polyjuice Potion. Or hey, if you're family member or friend is acting a little weird, you may want to check and make sure they're not under the Imperious Curse.

[Eric]

Right, right. Maybe they're just under high stress because Voldemort's back.

[Andrew]

Well, yeah, I mean, but that, that's a great point too, Micah, because you can't even trust the people closest to you is what the Ministry is saying.

[Meg]

These tips do kind of go from zero to a hundred. Like by the end it's like, by the way, there might be zombies. Look out.

[Eric]

Oh, yeah. Oh, you know what? Yeah. During the discussion of this, I've, I think I've seen the other side of like what you guys are talking about. Like reading this would be like, actually really terrifying to see for the first time because all these possibilities that you wouldn't necessarily be thinking about are covered. It's like, wait, wait.

[Andrew]

I'm realizing something. We sent a memo earlier this week saying the panel must be wearing blue today and Micah's the only one wearing red. Micah, are you a Death Eater?

[Eric]

Are you?

[Andrew]

Are you a Death Eater?

[Micah]

Do you see the little blue line there?

[Andrew]

He's a Death Eater. Eject. Eject from the conference call.

[Micah]

All right, enjoy the rest of the episode, everybody.

[Eric]

This reminds me of when we played the, the Harry Potter trivia game, which is a bonus on the Patreon. There was a secret, secret dark mark tattoo.

[Micah]

Oh, that's right.

[Meg]

Michael was acting shady the entire game. And then the big reveal.

[Micah]

I don't know what you mean. Fake tattoo. That thing is still there. But one interesting thing I found when kind of doing a little bit of prep for this chapter was I came across somebody who talked about how the Ministry's guidelines are in fact unclear and they do more to incite fear than to ensure safety. And giving the timing of Half Blood Prince that Rowling's portrayal of a paranoid and fear driven government may actually reflect her perspective of the US and UK governments and what they did following the events of 9 11. And I'm curious, any thoughts there?

[Eric]

It's possible I was 13 for 9 11. But one area that I think I'd like to read about more or experience is that kind of what's going to happen, like our nation was under attack and the response in many cases can be as terrifying as the initial incident and, you know, plunging the US into the war. So I, I think it's certainly possible that these were the themes that the author was, was pulling from.

[Micah]

And just to kind of wrap up this section, I do think it's nice that Fudge mentioned these guidelines back in the first chapter and we already get the payoff for them in this chapter and we get to actually see what they are. So he's not just all talk. The Ministry did actually send out leaflets to the wizarding community.

[Andrew]

See, that's a man you can count on.

[Eric]

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[Micah]

Well, speaking of a man, you can't count on Dumbledore. Oh, we were talking a little bit about this earlier. Harry just is unsure whether or not Dumbledore is going to be showing up. He had written Harry saying that he would call on him at 11 o', clock, which we're going to talk about in a little bit. Because my man showing up way too late. Yeah, I get the whole under the COVID of darkness thing, but you know what? I know you don't like the Dursleys. Be a little respectful showing up at their doorstep at 11 o' clock at night.

[Eric]

Wait a minute. Dumbledore is completely disregarding the Ministry's guidelines of don't go anywhere alone at night.

[Micah]

Yeah, I think if anybody could go alone, it's him.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I also think he's going to be the last person to listen to the Ministry when the ministry wasn't listening to him. So. But maybe he also wanted to catch the Dursleys off guard by showing up so late. Because as we see, before long he starts really verbally taking them down. And by showing up late they're going to be even more unprepared than they may have been earlier in the day.

[Meg]

But what if they'd been asleep?

[Micah]

Well, great question.

[Andrew]

Should we just get to that? Let's just address this now. So first of all, I just want to say, Micah, I think you would be pissed if somebody showed up at 11pm I would too.

[Micah]

I'd be pissed if someone showed up at 3pm.

[Eric]

Hates people.

[Andrew]

You all know this was kind of unbelievable to me that he would show up so late I don't really actually get the logic behind it and I think maybe as kids when we were reading this for this first time it may have went over our heads. Like we may have been staying up late anyway but now didn't cross my mind at all. But now Andrew's in bed by like 9:30, 10. Like he's reading in bed by 8:30 and then hopefully asleep by 9:30. So if Dumbledore showed up at 11pm I'd be like I did not issue a booty call. So what are you doing?

[Eric]

Yeah, if you're showing up at 11 you're waiting on the porch until like 6:30 or 7. Right. The next morning.

[Micah]

Yeah, let's talk about Dudley too. What is Dudley doing up at 11pm?

[Andrew]

Well Dudley's the one.

[Eric]

Dudley's the one that it makes sense for because again as a teenager I was a.

[Meg]

If I were a teenager my parents would be asleep though.

[Micah]

It's the summertime. Right. Okay, I can give him a hall pass.

[Eric]

Yeah, maybe. Dudley works for a website where he contributes news content.

[Andrew]

Dudleymet.com I think Mikey, you bring up a good point about Dudley because we already know that the Dursley seriously neglect him. So for him to be staying up so late would also track with their neglect as Dumbledore brings up.

[Micah]

We also have an Petunia who is deep cleaning the kitchen at that time.

[Andrew]

So she's definitely timing.

[Meg]

I mean that's when Eric and I deep clean our apartment.

[Andrew]

Really happy there.

[Eric]

That's actually true. But yeah, the, the nightly ritual of one final finishing deep clean of the apartment or of the house.

[Micah]

Let's go back to Dumbledore's arrival and Harry's doubt that this is going to happen. And I wanted to know from the group do we think that this doubt really stems from how he was treated In Order of the Phoenix?

[Andrew]

Yes, but it also just feels too good to be true for Harry that Dumbledore would be bailing him out of the Dursley's home earlier than expected and he gets to go to the borough and then you to build on that. Dumbledore is paying attention to him after what happened In Order of the Phoenix.

[Eric]

You know this is probably exactly the same imposter behavior that the Ministry is warning about. Probably somebody that's not. Dumbledore is like catfishing Harry right now.

[Andrew]

Yeah, well and Harry is concerned about that which, which is totally valid given the current state of affairs. But Dumbledore is not just sending him a letter. Dumbledore is also making a personal visit now he's gonna be bringing him along to visit Slughorn. So it's not totally selfless. But Harry doesn't know that yet. And I can see why he's so excited and can't believe this is real.

[Meg]

I think it really comes down to that one line about Harry's like he could not face packing his trunk, being let down and then having to unpack it again. I think that is, that is the key sentence for all of this. It's just, you know, it's not just that he's been let down by Dumbledore in the past. It's, he's, he's constantly been let down when he's with the Dursleys and it, it would be terrible to, to get his hopes up and then to realize, no, they're dashed. I am still here.

[Micah]

Andrew, you made me think of something that, that I hadn't even considered that this could have been a ploy, this could have been a fake out. And no security questions were asked between Harry and Dumbledore.

[Andrew]

Well, give Harry credit too because he raises this in his mind. He's like, maybe this is a trick. And after what happened in order of the Phoenix, I can see why he would be so darn concerned. I wanted to ask everybody if they could tie Harry's experience here with the doubt that something too good to be true is going to happen with real life experiences that we've had. I'm a last minute planner anyway, so I would be delaying the packing. But one way this scene resonates with me is I simply cannot believe sometimes that I'm going to be going on a unique trip. Like I can't believe I'm about to go over to England. I can't believe I'm about to do like a cross country road trip. I can't believe later this month I'm going to Florida. My nephews are going to experience Disney World for the first time.

[Micah]

Like Uncle Andrew.

[Andrew]

It's just too good to be true. Yeah, it's just so exciting. So. And now for a dark turn. I have convinced myself in previous occasions that there is literally no way I'm going to be experiencing these cool things and I'm going to die beforehand. Sorry, it's just a weird thought that goes through my mind.

[Meg]

It's.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it's been proven wrong every time. For now.

[Eric]

Well, keep it up. Yeah, I feel like undefeated. So does that thought paralyze you then Andrew, where you're like, oh, I can't allow myself to get excited for this because it probably won't happen, kind of.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah. That's not good, is it? I can't let it paralyze me.

[Eric]

But I'm sure eventually you realize it is happening, right? And then you feel excitement.

[Andrew]

Yeah, definitely.

[Eric]

Yeah. I really sympathize with Harry here where the line that Meg was talking about where it's like, oh, if it turned out to be a ruse or something, it would break him so he can't allow it to think the one time I can think of about, like, this is too good to be true. I won Bruce Springsteen tickets off of the first. No, really, this really happened. It's not a joke on the radio, like actual concert tickets won on the radio. This only happened to me, I think. I think once. And it was the first time I saw Bruce at Wrigley Field in Chicago. And it was like a three hour concert and it was totally insane. But I, you know, you call the number, you have to be caller number, like a specific thing, right? And every time you call, it goes straight to voicemail or like call not completed kind of thing. The idea after the 47th or whatever, like time dialing the phone that instead of, you know, cancel out, it rings and it's like this old timey, echoey ring. And you're like, who did? I did. I end up accidentally calling machine. And then they pick up and it's like, it's wls. How's it go? You're on the air and it's like.

[Andrew]

Yeah, because that idea is so unlikely that you'll actually win that you can't even process that it's real.

[Meg]

My connection is like, not exactly the same, but like, throughout high school, I kind of just had this. We keep going dark here. But I kind of had this, like, idea that like, my life would just like end after high school. Not like in like a, like really like, dark, fatal way, but just like, I thought someone else would take over after, after that. And so I kind of applied to colleges with the idea, like, but I'm not going to be the one going to college. Someone else is going to do that. And then all of a sudden it was like the night before I was going to be, you know, hitching my truck to the wagon and headed up there. And it was like, oh, my God, wait, there is no understudy. I have to do this. And it was this moment of like, wait, well, I'm not. I didn't think this was actually going to happen. And now I have to. Now I have to pack. And there were, you know, a Few nights, the night before college, when it was like I was packing at 3am because I of had not really absorbed the feeling yet that it was real, that it was going to happen. So that's what that this is. This reminded me of that a little bit.

[Eric]

I like that a lot.

[Micah]

Nice. Andrew. I very much. I'm in alignment with you, I think, on travel in particular, like, I always would get like this sense of wonder when I would travel to a new state and in particular when I would see the license plate from that state after really here. Landing in the airport. Yeah. Or, you know, you mentioned London. Like, oh, I'm in London and I walk out of the airport or I get into the taxi or Uber, it's like I'm on the wrong side of the road. Like, you're actually there and, you know, it's like you build up so much anticipation to it and then you get on the flight and then six, seven hours later you're there and it's. It's like your mind almost can't even process it.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Because it still blows my mind how amazing air travel is that you can fly six, seven hours and then be in a totally different part of the world. To your point, Micah, about travel, I remember the first time I went to Hawaii. It was surreal. Going to Hawaii, then loading up Google Maps and just zooming out and out and out and out and out. And so I go, holy crap, I'm in the middle of nowhere in the Pacific Ocean.

[Eric]

I'm on an island.

[Andrew]

Yeah, we went to Hawaii a couple of months ago. I told Pat to do that, to have the same experience that I felt, because it's surreal. Travel is surreal sometimes.

[Meg]

Did he love it?

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah, we had a great time.

[Meg]

No, I mean the zooming out.

[Andrew]

Oh, yes, that too.

[Eric]

We don't care about the whole trip.

[Meg]

Did he have the moment of, oh.

[Andrew]

My God, thank you, Google Maps?

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

So Dumbledore does in fact arrive at Privet Drive, and one thing that Harry notices upon his arrival is his hand. But Dumbledore's like, carry no another time. We have business here with your aunt and uncle.

[Meg]

Is this a Dumbledore lie? Because he never actually addresses it.

[Eric]

Oh, are we doing that? Are you asking me? Because we're gonna do the Dumbledore lie count.

[Meg]

I'm wondering if we should.

[Eric]

I think this is a situation where Dumbledore kind of would have no problem really telling the truth. So I'm gonna count it as not.

[Micah]

A lie count under the right circumstances. Is that what you're saying?

[Eric]

It never really comes up like if Harry were to bombard him with asking the question. But the lessons become so important throughout the year that it just never really is not the right timing. Like I don't, I'll. As we read the book I'll remember but I don't think there's, I don't think it's being intentionally hidden from.

[Meg]

I don't know that he ever intends to actually tell Harry face to face about it but I think he does intend for Harry to know about it. I think when he's saying later Harry, it's with the idea of, you know, someday Harry will get those memories from Snape and then he'll know. Yeah, then he'll know.

[Micah]

And speaking of Snape, Snape makes a indirect reference to Dumbledore's hand in Spinner's End when I think it's he says something along the lines of he's not as quick as he used to be.

[Eric]

Yeah, his reflexes are used. Yeah, that's a good catch and it shows already. We've mentioned a ton of inner chapter references to other things that have been referenced in the just we're only three chapters in this book. I think what it speaks to is the tightness of this book. This book has internal consistency. It's a lot shorter than the previous book and it's just, it's just zippy. I think Half Blood Prince is my second favorite book at behind Prisoner. And I think that what I love about it is coming off of a very long sort of morbid or depressing book. 5. You get a lot of this like fun and a lot of this like setup and payoff, connecting the threads type moments really early on. And I just think book six is really tightly written and these are some of the ways in which it is.

[Micah]

Well, Dumbledore upon his arrival is not very welcomed in by Vernon Dursley. And it becomes apparent that Harry forgot to tell the Dursleys that Dumbledore was going to be calling on him at 11pm on a Thursday night. And I was wondering what if Harry had told the Dursleys that Dumbledore was going to be showing up? Would he have been received any differently?

[Andrew]

So I think they would have tried to block it somehow. They would have headed back to the shack on the little rock island or they would have went to a hotel for the night or Vernon would have made sure he had his gun on standby. He would have did done something differently. I think had he had a heads.

[Meg]

Up they would have been just as Rude. The only thing I can think of is they would be just like a little less speechless.

[Andrew]

Yes, they'd be. Vernon would have some quips ready to go. He would be ready.

[Meg]

He would have like seven to ten quips planned.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

I think that, you know, Harry, much as believing it or not was. Is now explained away or understandable the not mentioning the possibility to the Ursules, not even out of malice, just like it didn't cross Harry's mind to do that is a character flaw of Harry's. Like, I think that it doesn't set anyone up for a good experience even if a good experience is impossible because of who's coming to, to. To Privet Drive and why and what they need to do. Like. Okay. But Harry does no favors. And I. I think if I didn't have like a revenge kick against Dumbledore for his treatment of Harry I'd feel a little bit worse for Dumbledore, like, you know, showing up. He wrote Harry a letter like a week ago and Harry didn't even tell his aunt and uncle he was coming. But then again, Dumbledore could have written to the Dursleys too.

[Micah]

So he has corresponded with them before as we're going to talk about. Well, Dumbledore is invited into the Dursley home.

[Meg]

He invites himself in. Yeah.

[Micah]

He more or less makes himself comfortable and he's really the one who observes all the niceties because it is very hard for Petunia and Vernon in particular to even believe that this man was just standing on their doorstep and is now in their living room. So one thing I wanted to call attention to was that, you know, as Dumbledore is going through and greeting everybody when he gets to Petunia, he says, and of course, we have corresponded before and we're led to believe, of course that this is the howler that Petunia received. The. Remember my last. But this is a little bit of a misdirect and obviously we wouldn't know this unless we had read Deathly Hallows but Petunia had written to Dumbledore some time ago.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

About going to Hogwarts back when she.

[Eric]

Was living near Spinner's End.

[Andrew]

And at the end of this chapter, Petunia is described as being oddly flushed after Dumbledore to pants them. So I'm wondering if she is remembering.

[Micah]

Look, how you use my terminology now. I know I'm slowly wearing off on Andrew.

[Andrew]

I like that. I like that word. I'm wondering if she's remembering that previous correspondence that you're Referring to Micah, that we end up learning about in Deathly Hallows. Because this, you know, it's kind of a. To see Dumbledore, I think could be a bit of a triggering or traumatizing moment for her. Like she wanted to move on from this.

[Eric]

Yeah. I mean when you're, she's probably for some in some way regressed back to, you know, being that 10 year old and saying can't I, oh, can't I come to Hogwarts and having this, you know, grown adult say sorry, no. To then have that same adult 40 years later barge into your home and tell you what he thinks about your hospitality while using magic in your home. Like the one thing that you look, what you can't do is a sore spot. Yeah, that's exactly right, Meg.

[Meg]

Something that feels weird to read is when Dumbledore is like, ah, you must be Vernon and you must be Dudley. And it, you're like, oh my God, Dumbledore doesn't know what these people look like. He, like, he's really so like. But like the way, you know, it's like he, he has never introduced himself to these people before and like it. You start realizing like, wow, Dumbledore has actually been very, very hands off for the role that Dumbledore had with putting Harry with the Dursleys. Like he really just kind of did that and then like was like worked on.

[Eric]

You would think that he would need more control than that too, that he would exercise more control on, on, on for Harry.

[Andrew]

And he's just being a gentleman by saying, you know, it's kind of pleasantries like you must be Verona and you must be Petunia. Nice to meet you. That type of thing.

[Micah]

And yeah, but there's an edge of sarcasm beneath all of it, I think.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Micah]

I mean, no, yeah. This is the Privet Drive revenge tour. Right. This is an opportunity for Dumbledore to step foot in Privet Drive and I think probably for himself, even more so than Harry, at least for this very brief period of time, rectify what's been done over the last almost 16 years of Harry's life.

[Eric]

Well, I, I think he's convinced himself that he cares for Harry even though what he's doing is oftentimes either wrong, harmful or manipulative of Harry. Like. Cause he takes the Dursleys to task for it. Like you're saying he, he tells them how much they've abused not only their own kid but also Harry. He's like, what does he say? You know, I hoped that you would have, you know, taken Harry really in as like a son. And it's very clear you haven't done any of that. But like Dumbledore, to your point of like the Dursley's not ever having been formally introduced to him in the in the past shows how hands off he's been. Shows that Dumbledore really hasn't largely cared for Harry in a way that that matters. Right. And that would have made any of this easier for any of the people in this chapter. This is his first time kind of being more hands on because he needs Harry for this thing with Slughorn.

[Micah]

But this is the real opportunity though, for Dumbledore to come face to face with the Dursleys and to give them their comeuppance. We don't obviously get Dumbledore in the first half of Deathly Hallows and we don't really get the Dursleys either.

[Andrew]

Right.

[Micah]

Cause it's only a very brief period of time that they get to even spend within their own home. So this is really like the last big meeting taking place here at Privet Drive and not in the movie by the way.

[Andrew]

And they better max this because this is an excellent scene for Dumbledore.

[Micah]

Oh, it's. Yeah. It shows him in very rare form.

[Eric]

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[Micah]

Irvin mentioned this last week. But and I was thinking about it as I was reading the chapter that Dumbledore in many ways behaves similar to how Snape behaves towards Bellatrix in Spinner's End. Like there's a lot of similarities here just with like the sass that he throws out there with, you know, knocking them over into the couch so that they sit down clanking the glasses of mead on their foreheads. And choosing just to, like, completely ignore the fact that he's abusing them physically.

[Eric]

There's a lot of condescension. I mean, the couch bit, where it pushes it forward is very Simpsons for me. I'll never not think of, like, the Simpsons intro where, like, the couch is always doing something crazy. But there's condescension, there's derision, there's sass. It's clear that he has absolutely no respect for them, but he's there to. He's the authority figure, always. Right. It's not a very respectful encounter. And actually reminds me of what we were talking about in chapter one discussion, which is that wizards have a very high opinion of themselves and this could be more of just the superiority complex in general. Dumbledore often credits his own intelligence, even when talking to Harry is like, if I do say so, I am smarter than your. You know, your average wizard. But, like, in addition to that, he doesn't think that Dursleys are really worth his time. And this. This kind of behavior goes further to show that.

[Micah]

Yeah, that's why I said I really think part of this is performative for Harry. The fact that somebody like Dumbledore can show up and make the Dursleys as uncomfortable as they are in this moment in their own home. Like, it's not the same as Goblet of Fire when Arthur shows up. Right. Because Vernon feels like he probably can at least match Arthur. But it's even mentioned that Vernon finds Dumbledore, or at least it seems Harry's perception to be intimidating. Yeah, Like, Vernon's not gonna, you know, wad around with Dumbledore.

[Eric]

No, he's. Yeah, he's really not. But it's so interesting because, again, like, Dumbledore's attempt here to get kind of. It's a very juvenile attempt to get on Harry's good side by bullying his aunt and uncle. Like, I think that this is. I think that Dumbledore thinks that doing this is going to ingratiate Harry to helping him on his quest. Because Dumbledore is all about recruiting Horace Slughorn to come back to Hogwarts. That's. That's a big chess piece that he needs because he needs the Horcrux memory to prove his own theory. So every. Like this whole. I'll pick Harry up at Privet Drive. Yeah, he's taken him to the borough. That's great for Harry. But this is all about using Harry. And I think that Dumbledore has calculated the odds of success being bigger if he Makes Harry like him more. And so that's why he shows up with this attitude. Because especially following book five and everything that's just happened with Sirius where Harry's wrecking his office, I feel like things are still probably at an all time discomfort between Harry and Dumbledore. So when Dumbledore shows up, he does all this crap. He tells the Dursleys that they're not being polite. It's so that Dumbledore can curry Harry's favor. Yeah.

[Meg]

And he succeeds.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I was gonna say that too.

[Meg]

Yeah. The next chapter starts with Harry being like, oh boy, I'm going on an adventure with Dumbledore. And you know, I think like if Harry could. Or like even if like the Dursleys could somehow be omniscient. Like when Dumbledore is saying, you have abused this boy, you have not taken care of him in the way that I asked you to. Like if Vernon had somehow been able to say like, okay, and you're planning for him to die. So which of us is the worst actually? But you know, I do think part of it is also that it's making Dumbledore feel a little better about himself and the role that he has played or not played in Harry with the Dursleys.

[Micah]

So let's talk about that a little bit. Why do we think Dumbledore waited so long to confront the Dursleys about their treatment of Harry? Because he's aware that this has been going on ever since Harry's lived there.

[Andrew]

I don't have a good excuse for this, but I think that he is mad at himself and the situation and he's mad that the only family he could leave Harry with were these abusive losers and he hoped they would do better, but they didn't. And so the de pantsing happens here. I wish Dumbledore said something sooner, but maybe he also believed that they were never going to change no matter what he said to them. And he's probably not wrong.

[Eric]

Look, McGonagall warns him in chapter one of book one. Yeah, I was thinking worse.

[Andrew]

Family people.

[Meg]

Worst kind of Muggles.

[Andrew]

What are you doing?

[Eric]

She watched them for one day and was like, absolutely not. This is not going to work. Like, I'll defer to you, Albus, but these people are awful. And so. But I think it makes sense. This being the first time and the last time Dumbledore interacts with the Dursleys makes sense because more than anything the level of protection that we know like causes Voldemort to fail to catch Harry sooner is this Privet Drive magic with the blood magic with Petunia. And so, because Dumbledore needed more than anything for that to be the magic that works, that protects Harry, he was willing to place Harry with these jerks. But his appearance on Private Drive now, where he condescends and abuses them and tells them they haven't been good to Harry is, like, couched with the fact that he says Harry needs to come back just once more. And so the Dursleys, who would be more than happy to be rid of Harry are lulled into a sense of, oh, that doesn't sound so bad if our ne. If our nephew only has to come back once more. And so I thought it was twice.

[Micah]

So they're getting a bargain.

[Eric]

Yeah, he comes of age a whole year early, everybody. But, yeah, like, I. I think that if. If Dumbledore had this conversation with them in year three, like, they still would have had to put up with, I think, all of their sins and with Harry for four more years and I don't think that would have flown. I think Dumbledore senses that this is a sensitive topic.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

You know, so he's got. He's gonna pull out all the stops and really come at them. But be like, just FYI, he does need to come back once more. Go.

[Andrew]

Go at them hard. When they only have one more opportunity in the future to treat him badly.

[Micah]

And not only come at them about Harry, but come at them about Dudley too, which I don't do. We feel like that crosses a line a bit. Like, who is Dumbledore to comment on the parenting of Petunia and Vernon towards Dudley? I know we all sit here and judge, but it's up to them.

[Andrew]

Ultimately, Dudley doesn't deserve this. It's not Dudley's fault. But given how Vernon and Petunia have treated Harry I can see why he's motivated to criticize their parenting skills in general, whether it's Harry, whether it's the Dursleys or Dumbledore.

[Eric]

Ultimately, Dumbledore has a protectiveness around Harry. Like, you see it come out when he talks about Harry in this manner to the Dursleys. Like, Dumbledore does feel protective of Harry and that's why he's able to tell the Dursleys, you did a bad job. But I do think it crosses a line because he doesn't know Dudley. He hasn't been watching at the window pane Dudley's whole life. And so any judgment that he has just made about Dudley just happened and is superficial, like, by definition.

[Meg]

I think it is. It is undeserved for Dudley. But I think that this scene is really huge in Dudley's characterization in book seven. I think Dudley saying to Harry, I don't think you're a waste of space is in some way like this. There's a huge difference between Dudley in book five, when he's the bully with his posse and Dudley in book seven where he's, you know, saying, I don't think you're a waste of space to Harry and trying to give him a teacup as a peace offering. And I think that this scene does have a lot to do with it. I think Dudley seeing his parents get chastised by this wizard who comes in and, you know, is rude to them and kind of makes fun of them but ultimately doesn't do any, like, physical harm. I think it sets. Sets up Dudley for a year of kind of reflecting on this. And, like, have I been mistreated? When was I mistreated? And, like, who was this old man coming to? Coming to, you know, coming to stand up to stand up for my weird cousin. And, and, and why would he do that? And I think that was kind of fundamental for Dudley's character development. To witness that. To witness his parents being that way.

[Eric]

I really like that. So between that and then also whatever he saw when the Dementors attacked those two things, you can draw a straight line connecting between Dudley at the beginning of book five when he's a bully and what happens with book seven, like that development.

[Micah]

Yeah, I really like that. Yeah.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

In terms of what Dumbledore specifically is referring to when criticizing Dudley, it's gotta be the weight, first and foremost because the author has frequently been really brutal when it comes to describing characters by their large sizes. And then obviously the spoiling. And as we established tonight, Dudley staying up past 11pm Dumbledore doesn't like that either.

[Meg]

No, it's not good for a young boy.

[Andrew]

No.

[Micah]

Gotta get those eight hours sleep. Yeah, yeah, 100%. So I thought we could wrap up the chapter talking about what part of why Dumbledore is there is. And. And this really didn't necessarily have to happen in front of the Dursleys. This is another moment where I feel like Dumbledore calling Creature. And we know how Creature appears most of the time to have that writhing on their living room carpet. And it was noted, and we talked about earlier, Petunia just got done deep cleaning the kitchen. This atrocity on her carpet in the living room probably made her Freak the hell out.

[Eric]

Right? We don't see Dumbledore casting like a scourge ify or like a, you know, oh, let me clean this place up for you. Sorry about your home.

[Micah]

But that's why I think like this in and of itself is probably one of the worst moments of the entire chapter for the Dursleys because it's tainting their home. Right? Like this thing is.

[Eric]

That's a violation.

[Micah]

It's a violation. Yeah.

[Eric]

There have been many violations in this chapter that might be the worst. Yeah.

[Meg]

Well, it's also extremely unkind to Kreacher, I think. Who?

[Micah]

Oh, it's terrible.

[Meg]

He didn't ask to be brought into this brand new environment with people he doesn't know. And he's clearly in emotional distress and doing something that he doesn't want. He's having a tantrum on the floor with how upset he is about all this. And Dumbledore's just kind of like, I don't, you know, for all that Dumbledore criticized Sirius about like Sirius never treated Kreacher well. Dumbledore's not treating him very well either. And it just makes me really happy that Kreacher does get the turnaround in book seven where Harry, Ron and Hermione are actually kind to him.

[Eric]

And he does get that I love creatures arc overall. But the other thing is this whole will of Siriuses and figuring out if Grimoire Place and Creature or Creature and Grimoire Place by extension are in fact Harry's. Doesn't need to happen in front of the Dursleys, right? There's not a single reason why the Dursleys need to see this. It's something that's on Dumbledore's mind. Maybe he's distracting or delaying from going to Scrymgeour so that again, Harry is like, oh, Dumbledore means business, but for me it doesn't need to. It could have happened out in the street and would have been, you know, better. I think for a lot of people.

[Andrew]

Maybe it was just to further freak the Dursleys out by having this house elf in their home.

[Eric]

I think it's like the magic Dumbledore saying to them the magic world exists. There's all this stuff going on that you've been not only unkind toward but willfully ignorant of. And I don't care how much of magic I flaunt in front of you because you're horrible people and you won't drink this deal with good meat.

[Micah]

I think the real reason why is because we needed to be able to connect the threads between Half Blood Prince and Chamber of Secrets because both have house elves show up at Privet Drive.

[Eric]

Oh, yeah, the creature's the second house elf that's at Privet Drive.

[Meg]

That's making a mess at Privet Drive. You know, this is a sidebar, but another connecting threads between chambers he Half Blood Prince that I thought of today. And it's a little bit silly because it's not really based in exactly reality, but I saw. So I saw the Chamber Secrets movie from my friend Marissa's 10th birthday and I was seated next to this girl named Aaron. And Erin had clearly seen the first movie, but she had not read the books because when Harry is, you know, the bars are on his window and he's in his bedroom at night. And you see, Eric knows this story.

[Eric]

I know this story. This is hilarious.

[Meg]

And you see the little bits of light. And as these little lights are getting bigger, Aaron leans over to me and very confidently and gleefully she whispers to me, it's Dumbledore. And I was like, Aaron, you fool. But you know what? Full circle.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Meg]

Four books later, Dumbledore. Dumbledore comes. Save Harry from the Dursleys. Oh, so you know, vindication for Aaron.

[Andrew]

And for Petunia's carpet. This portion of the show is brought to you by Stanley Steamer, Stanley Steemer. When you need your carpets clean and you can't be bothered to do it yourself.

[Micah]

Well, Eric, you mentioned that in addition to Creature, Harry gets Grimmel Place. He also gets presumably a boatload of money. So he's just rolling in it at this point. And Buckbeak, who is sent off to Hagrid and will now be known as Wither Wings. So we need to make sure that we correct that. Moving forward with wings and out into the balmy UK summer night is where we're headed.

[Eric]

The misty and dementory, what is it called?

[Micah]

Bubbly Babington or But Buddly Babble?

[Eric]

It's a movieism. It doesn't matter.

[Micah]

Oh, is it really?

[Eric]

No, it might not actually be. I don't think the name of the town is. I could be very wrong.

[Andrew]

Well, it's time for MVP of the week. And this week's segment is most valuable tip from the Ministry. Don't be outside after dark. Because as I told everyone last week, Death Eaters are night owls. That's why you can't be outside after dark.

[Eric]

I think that rule number one, the buddy system is a very good rule.

[Micah]

Mentioned this earlier, the security questions, especially in this time in which we live Gotta make sure Andrew is Andrew.

[Meg]

And I said the best tip was actually the start of the pamphlet where it says the wizarding community is currently under threat from an organization calling itself the Death Eaters. Because I think just the acknowledgement alone finally is what is most important here.

[Micah]

Yeah, and I looked it up in the next chapter. I also see Lunar Lycan in the Discord. It is Budley Babberton. I'm not sure that is what his name. Dumbledore says the actor Michael Gambon. Michael Gambon, Yeah. It sounds like he made it a little bit more whimsical than that, but.

[Eric]

No, it sounds right.

[Meg]

Yeah, it is in the book.

[Eric]

Yeah. Page 59.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Micah]

And then over on our links line at patreon.com mugglecast this week's question was if Dumbledore could have left a Yelp review for the Dursleys, what would it say?

[Andrew]

So Rachel said very clean, well kept lawn. No lemon drops or any other snacks offered. Hosts were rude and had the feeling I wasn't wanted. Wouldn't go back.

[Eric]

Okay, next we have Kyle. 2 out of 5 stars. The staff were quite rude but did the bare minimum to maintain the shield charm. The Agapanthus were flourishing that that raised them a whole star on the rating.

[Micah]

And that needs to be maxed too. When they max this scene. Dumbledore needs to come in and say that just like he does in the book. Sarah says hosts are super rude. They wouldn't even drink the drinks I provided. Why am I the only. Why am I providing drinks anyway?

[Meg]

Julianne says do not come here unless you want the feeling that smelling vinegar gives you. Your nose will wrinkle in disgust and you will wish you never came here in the first place.

[Andrew]

Kim said side eye emoji. This establishment was one of the worst I've visited and I have been to Azkaban. If I could give it no stars, I would. There was no butterbeer or rosemaryto's mead available. In fact, I had to apparate my own. The host refused to acknowledge my efforts in providing them refreshments as well. There was a terrible smell of disinfectant and the furniture was uncomfortable. Unless you are looking to punish yourself, I would not recommend number four, Privet Drive. Little whinging.

[Eric]

All right. Sarah says very clean but uninviting and smells of bleach. Three stars.

[Micah]

Jen gives it three and a half out of five stars. Very clean and quiet. Not enough knitting magazines in the bathroom.

[Meg]

Okay, okay. Ningxi says terrible service, rude Staff One.

[Andrew]

Star Michael says one out of a million stars. This house is atrocious and basically revolves around one spoiled brat. I mean, this kid gets his own two rooms just for his toys and another to sleep in while the parents have one to share. It doesn't help that there are pictures of this living beach ball of a boy all around the house. Heck, I couldn't move one step without seeing one of these. The garden is obviously cared for as a way to impress neighbors and me, but I wasn't fooled by their act. I could instantly tell that they were trying to hide something. Further investigation found a boy locked under the stairs. This house stinks. Don't even go near it. If you live in Privet Drive, sell your house because of how atrocious this place is. Wow, I like that.

[Meg]

Going back to, you know, book one.

[Eric]

Stuff that Fat Lady One star out of five. Written by Albus Percival Woolfork Brian Dumbledore Verified Reviewer that's not the review. Having now visited number four Privet Drive on more than one occasion, I can confirm it remains a singularly dreadful establishment. The menu consists primarily of cold toast and resentment, while their lawn is immaculately trimmed. Credit where it's due, the emotional landscape is barren. Upon arrival, I was greeted with a familiar ambiance of suppressed fury and air freshener. Vernon Dursley attempted to glare me into non existence, Petunia vibrated with barely concealed horror, and Dudley dear boy managed a grunt that could almost be mistaken for civility. Refreshments were not offered. I had to produce my own Mead prosecutor. No one screamed outright cons. Emotional Warmth of a Dementor's Armpit. Overall, one star for Petunia's Flowerbeds. Wow. Can I.

[Micah]

Can I vote that that is the title of our episode? Emotional Warmth of a Dementor's Armpit. Is that too long armpit?

[Eric]

I like Dudley. I like Dursley's Deep Pants.

[Andrew]

Yeah, that or Mike. I made a note earlier. Privet Drive Revenge Tour. That was something you.

[Micah]

Oh, okay.

[Andrew]

Dursley's de pants, though. I mean, that has alliteration.

[Eric]

I could go either way.

[Andrew]

The links line is a great way to have your voice heard on the show, whether or not you're listening live. We ask a new question every week. Become a member of our community today by going to patreon.com mugglecast and receiving this and many more benefits like ad free episodes. One of my favorite podcasts recently started doing ad free episodes through a support system. I'm like oh my Gosh, this is so much nicer. So if you want to experience that feeling too, join our Patreon it's so bad.

[Micah]

Now on some podcasts, like literally the first four minutes of a episode is just ads.

[Andrew]

Our show's definitely not that bad. We set stricter limits, but it's still really nice to not have ads in a podcast. If you have any feedback about today's episode, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo that you record on your phone to mugglecastmail.com and next week we'll discuss Half Blood Prince Chapter 4 Horace Slughorn. If you enjoy the show, please do help us out. We have just reduced pricing on items in our overstock store. Get 19 years later T shirts or our 15th anniversary T shirts. Lots of other great products there as well. Just go to mugglecastmerch.com and click the Overstock Store link at the top. You can also take a moment to rate us in Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You can also visit mugglecast.com for quick access to all of this information and our contact form. And if you're looking for more podcasting from the four of us, listen to our other shows, Millennial and what the Hype for more pop culture and real world talk. Now it's time for Quizzage.

[Eric]

This week's question in this chapter, Snape and Narcissa make a grown up version of a pinky promise. The origins of pinky promises started in Japan known as Yubikiri. According to Yubikiri, what would happen to someone who broke a pinky promise? Well, the correct answer is let's long story short, they would lose the finger. The pinky would be cut off by the person they made the promise with. And we have actually, it's very clear who the anime fans are because it's a very big theme in anime and 37% of people who submitted the correct answer said they did not look it up. Correct answers were and who do we.

[Meg]

Know in the Harry Potter series who cut off a finger while betraying someone?

[Eric]

Peter Pettigrew. Was it his pinky too right? Peter Pettigrew's Pinky Pointer Wormtaily Peter Petter Pink to Pinky of okay, this week's winners were A Healthy Breeze. Ashley B. A Boobatuber Ate My Mom Gryffindor Gurley I have a special pinky handshake with my favorite coworker, Lady Hermione Lookalike Lumos Knox Laika Lopex Magizoology 101 Pinky and the Brain from the Department of Mysteries.

[Meg]

In the last book.

[Eric]

Still waiting for micah to say 67. Tempa Tim, tofu Tom and Wally Saurus. What's that about? Micah67.

[Micah]

Is that like a new kid thing?

[Andrew]

It is a new kid thing. Watch last night's south park for more. It doesn't make sense. Though I did notice I was rewatching Half Blood Prince the other day while shipping out yearbooks. And I did notice that Ginny and Harry have the numbers 6 and 7.

[Micah]

That's where I saw that.

[Andrew]

Oh, okay. But they were standing, like, backwards, so it said 7 6.

[Micah]

I have no idea what that means.

[Andrew]

It doesn't mean anything. That's why the kids.

[Eric]

Can I just say how much I love that you were watching Apple Prince while, you know, shipping yearbooks?

[Andrew]

I know. And I realized the movie, I don't think I like it. It's too H word. There's too much romance.

[Eric]

It's too visibly dark for me. Like, the color grading is just awful.

[Andrew]

Dumbledore being like, are you dating Harry? I can't. But it's too much.

[Eric]

All the riz that Harry has to use another next gen term. Okay, well, here is. That was a lovely chat that we just had there. Here is next week's Quizzage question. In chapter three, Harry learns he has inherited Grimald Place from Sirius. Upon his death, the famous playwright William Shakespeare left left most of his property and his fortune to his daughter Susanna. However, he did leave something to his wife, whose name happened to be Anne Hathaway. What did Shakespeare will to his wife Anne Hathaway upon his death? Submit your answer to us on the Quizzage form located on the Mugglecast website. Go to mugglecast.com quizzic if you want a direct link to the form and. Or if you're on our website checking out the amazing transcripts that are done weekly by Meg or our Must Listens page or anything else at all, Just click on Quiz it from the main nav bar.

[Andrew]

Thank you, Meg, for your help with the transcripts and for joining us today. Always great to have you on.

[Meg]

Oh, thank you very much for having me. It's always a pleasure.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Meg]

Not a chapter that I think about that much, so it was nice to kind of delve deeper into it.

[Andrew]

It's a good chapter.

[Eric]

I actually felt as though. Yeah, we had a really good talk about it.

[Andrew]

We did. I agree. I agree.

[Micah]

Did you transcribe, like, as we were going?

[Meg]

No, but maybe I should. Next time on I'm gonna be.

[Eric]

We're gonna turn on the AI and meeting notes or whatever feature to get it.

[Micah]

God, I hope you do that.

[Andrew]

Thanks, everybody, for listening. I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Meg]

And I'm Meg.

[Andrew]

See you next week for chapter four. Bye. And Doug, Here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat, helping people.

[Eric]

Customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating.

[Andrew]

It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Eric]

Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us? Cut the camera.

[Andrew]

They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty.

[Eric]

Liberty.

[Andrew]

Liberty Savings Fairy. Underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.

[Meg]

What are your holiday traditions?

[Eric]

Putting up a minimum of six trees.

[Meg]

Decorating every room with a different theme.

[Eric]

Whatever it is, here's one way to make those traditions extra special.

[Meg]

Start the season with Etsy.

[Eric]

On Etsy, you'll discover original pieces from small shops to help you celebrate your way. Shop Etsy for holiday decor that makes you feel seen. Special starts on Etsy. Tap the banner to shop now.