The Great MuggleCast Bake Off (HBP Chapter 9, 'The Half-Blood Prince')

Summary

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Episode Overview

Episode Title: The Great MuggleCast Bake Off (HBP Chapter 9, 'The Half-Blood Prince')
Date: December 9, 2025
Theme:
This week, the MuggleCast crew embarks on a deep-dive discussion of Chapter 9 from Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, focusing on its teaching themes, the debut of Slughorn's Potions class, the impact of the mysterious Half-Blood Prince's textbook, and a broader look at what makes a good or bad teacher at Hogwarts. Mixing insightful critique with signature humor, the hosts question pedagogy in the Wizarding World, highlight memorable character moments, and even spark a great Hogwarts bake-off analogy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Welcome and Patron Feature (02:29)

• This week's special guest is Audrey, a Slug Club-level supporter whose fandom ID includes Slytherin house, Patronus as a Chow Dog, and Goblet of Fire as favorite book.
• Quick banter about Hogwarts house pride and the sensory specifics of Amortentia.

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Teaching Styles at Hogwarts: Chaos and Care (05:23–14:41)

McGonagall: Personalized Approach

• Eric kicks off, noting the variety of teaching styles present at Hogwarts.
• McGonagall is praised for her attentive, if somewhat inefficient, approach—meeting with every student to discuss their O.W.L. results and class choices in person.
  • "Why there was no way for them to confirm OWL results and issue schedules before the start of term using, I don't know, magic." – Micah (08:20)
  • Laura contends this administrative clumsiness is needed for the plot and to showcase McGonagall's concern for Neville.

Career Guidance (11:05)

• Audrey observes Hogwarts could use a proper guidance counselor:
  • "I feel like that's a role they could definitely have at Hogwarts that would go very far for a lot of the students, especially the ones that don't know what they want to do."

Support for Neville

• McGonagall encourages Neville to stray from his grandmother's path and play to his own strengths—a rare moment of teacherly mentorship and sass:
  • "Just because Augusta failed her charms O.W.L., the subject's not necessarily worthless to Neville..." – Audrey (14:03)

Stereotyping Academic Subjects

• Discussion of how "Charms" gets unfairly labeled as a "soft" subject, paralleling how certain disciplines get dismissed in the Muggle world.
  • Laura: "I don't think it's fair to Charms either to consider it soft." (15:51)

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Divination: Co-teaching Chaos (18:19–20:53)

• Forenz and Trelawney now share Divination, splitting the subject by year.
• Hosts note the whiplash students would experience due to radically divergent teaching philosophies.

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Good Teachers, Bad Teachers: Snape & Slughorn Compared (22:59–41:42)

Snape: The Perennially Awful Educator (22:59–33:15)

• First DADA class under Snape is dissected as an example of toxic teaching—publicly humiliating Hermione, denying her credit, and seeking to embarrass Harry.
  • "Snape is as bad as ever… instead of praising [Hermione] for a correct answer... he berates her." – Eric (22:59)
  • "This is a guy who was just fighting with Lord Voldemort a few months ago so you can understand why Harry would instinctively react like this." – Andrew (26:38)
• Speculation whether Snape's cruelty is a double act for Malfoy's benefit:
  • "So is Snape deliberately making Harry's life awful in front of Malfoy... to keep up the ruse...?" – Eric (29:38)
  • Laura: "Why not both?" (30:41)
• Hermione surprisingly defends some of Snape's DADA philosophy, drawing parallels to Harry’s own practical, gut-driven advice.
  • "You said it was just you and your brain and your guts. Wasn't that what Snape was saying?" – Andrew, quoting Hermione (32:32)

Slughorn: The Showman Educator (33:58–41:42)

• Potions class with Slughorn is a contrast: he incentivizes students with a bottle of Felix Felicis for brewing the best Draft of Living Death.
  • Eric: “Slughorn invites questions and he incentivizes them. He sweetens the pot...”
• Hosts debate if incentivization is a positive or a negative. Andrew questions it:
  • "The incentive should be just getting good grades and continuing your furthering your educational career." (35:55)
• Micah and Laura caution that one good lesson does not necessarily make Slughorn a consistently good teacher, especially since his penchant for favoritism is apparent.
  • "The thing that I think is a knock against Slughorn is the favoritism..." – Laura (39:03)

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The Half-Blood Prince’s Book: Ethics & Advantage (43:03–55:55)

Harry’s Use of the Annotated Textbook

• Debate arises: is Harry cheating by following the Half-Blood Prince's notes?
  • Andrew: "I don't think there's anything wrong with taking on some alternate directions. It's risky. But he quickly finds out that they actually work really well. So why not continue to lean on them?" (46:19)
• Hermione opposes, claiming it's not "his work."
• Eric draws a SparkNotes analogy:
  • "What Snape has written in this book... it's advanced, evolved, trial and error, updated instructions..."
• The group ponders whether the real issue is access—only Harry has the advantage, not the whole class.
• Laura posits the core issue is Harry not being transparent about his advantage, rather than the mere use of better notes.

Trust and Past Trauma

• Ginny draws a pointed parallel to her own experience with Tom Riddle's diary:
  • "You're trusting the writing in a book. You don't know who wrote it." (54:46)

Is Snape a ‘Good Teacher’ in Book Form?

• “Does the writing in this book actually make Snape a good teacher of Harry when all the ego is gone?” – Eric (55:17)
• Hosts agree: Snape is an expert, but not a good teacher.

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Odds & Ends (56:20–58:36)

• Katie Bell: Stands out for her humility, insisting on trying out for the Quidditch team despite being the only original member left.
• Lily Potter’s Potions Prowess: Discussion on whether Snape’s skills derived in part from Lily, or vice versa.
• Slughorn and Felix Felicis: Fans speculate on the two perfect days Slughorn achieved under luck potion.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On McGonagall as Mentor:
  “She’s kind of encouraging his that’s your dream dad, not mine moment.” – Audrey (14:24)

• On Subject Stereotyping:
  “I think a lot of the times, like, social sciences, unfortunately, get that kind of bad rap, and it’s really not fair.” – Laura (15:18)

• On Snape’s Pedagogy:
  “You just can’t attack a student like that, and especially not Harry, to everyone’s point.” – Eric (28:13)

• Slughorn’s Incentivizing:
  “Slughorn does everything right. He escalates...and this can be awfully done under a bad teacher. But Slughorn invites questions and…he sweetens the pot.” – Eric (35:55)

• SparkNotes Analogy:
  “It’s more akin to SparkNotes giving the answer to the students rather than letting them kind of fiddle with it themselves.” – Eric (49:07)

• Ginny Parallels Book 2:
  “You’re trusting the writing in a book. You don’t know who wrote it.” – Ginny via Eric (54:46)

• On Snape’s Potential:
  “He’s a bad teacher who knows his stuff.” – Andrew (55:29)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------------------|-------------| | Fandom ID and guest Audrey Intro | 02:29 | | Discussion of McGonagall and Hogwarts administration | 05:23–14:41 | | McGonagall pumps up Neville, teaching mentorship | 11:05–14:41 | | On Charms & subject stereotyping | 15:18–17:56 | | Divination: Trelawney and Forenz split teaching | 18:19–20:55 | | Defense Against the Dark Arts under Snape (analysis) | 22:59–33:15 | | Slughorn’s Potions Class and incentives | 33:58–41:42 | | Discussion: Is using the Prince's book cheating? | 43:03–52:15 | | Ginny’s warning parallels Chamber of Secrets | 54:46 | | Is Snape a good teacher in print? | 55:17 | | Odds & Ends: Quidditch tryouts, Lily-Snape, Felix days | 56:20–58:36 | | MVP: Best Sassy Harry Lines | 59:26–61:58 | | Listener “Links Line” stories about bad teachers | 61:58–66:45 |

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Additional Highlights

Bake-Off Analogy:
Hosts compare differing approaches to potion-making (and learning from various directions) to a bake-off challenge—everyone follows a recipe, but the ultimate outcome depends on interpretation and flair.

• "You probably don't bake a cake the same way I do..." – Micah (01:32, returns as running analogy)

MVP of the Week:
Celebration of Harry’s sassiest lines, with the "No need to call me sir, professor," hailed as one of the best, fueling a tour of favorite witty Harry retorts across the series (59:26–61:58).

Listener Interaction:
Patrons share their own stories of favorite subjects soured by lousy teachers, underscoring the episode’s real-world resonance.

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Conclusion

In classic MuggleCast fashion, this episode mixes earnest literary analysis with playful banter and personal anecdotes. The hosts highlight how creative approaches, subject-matter expertise, and teaching style can make or break a Hogwarts class—and how this translates to real life.
Key takeaways: True teaching requires empathy, flexibility, and encouragement—not just knowledge or power—and the best learning often comes from a blend of intuition and instruction, sometimes with a dash of luck (or the right annotated textbook).

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Next Week: Half-Blood Prince, Chapter 10, “The House of Gaunt”

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Transcript

[Eric]

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[Audrey]

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[Laura]

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[Eric]

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[Audrey]

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[Laura]

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[Audrey]

Pick up some Coca Cola at a store near you.

[Eric]

My name is Percy Jackson. Getting in trouble is like breathing for me.

[Micah]

The hit series returns to Disney and Hulu.

[Andrew]

The danger the camp is under is greater than you can possibly imagine.

[Eric]

For the key to our survival, three.

[Andrew]

Of you must quest to the Sea of Monsters.

[Eric]

Let's go do the impossible.

[Andrew]

Percy Percy Jackson and the Olympians new.

[Eric]

Season 2 episode premiere December 10th on Disney and Hulu.

[Micah]

Learn more at disneyplus.com whatson.

[Audrey]

Kids, they grow up so fast. One day they're taking their first steps and the next they don't fit into the tiny sneakers they took them in. You blink your eyes and their princess dress is two sizes too small. And their dinosaur backpack isn't cool anymore. But don't cry because they're growing up. Smile because you can profit off of it. For real. There are a bunch of parents on Depop looking for the stuff your kid just grew out of. Download depop to start selling.

[Micah]

You probably don't bake a cake the same way I do. Or Andrew does. Or Laura does. Like we all follow different instructions and maybe we add our own little flair to it. And maybe it tastes great. Or maybe it doesn't taste great.

[Laura]

All right, well, I think we need to have the great Mugglecast Bake off now.

[Andrew]

Welcome to Mugglecast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter. I'm Andre. Hi, I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Laura]

And I'm Laura.

[Andrew]

And we're your Harry Potter friends talking about the books and the movies and the upcoming TV show. So make sure you press that follow button in your podcast app so you never miss an episode. And this week, why not try to follow some directions you found in someone else's used potions book? What's the worst that could happen? It can't make your potions grade any worse. Chapter by chapter continues with chapter nine of Half Blood Prince. The Half Blood Prince. And helping us with today's discussion is Slug club level supporter over on our Patreon, Audrey. Welcome to the show, Audrey.

[Audrey]

Thanks, Andrew. I'm happy to be here.

[Andrew]

Now we're going to ask you for your fandom id. I think I know what your Hogwarts House answer is going to be based on the sweater you're wearing tonight. But please give us your fandom id.

[Audrey]

All right, so my fandom id. My favorite book is Goblet of Fire. My favorite movie is Deathly Hallows Part 2. My Hogwarts House is indeed Slytherin. My Patronus is a Chow Dog. My favorite Hogwarts school subject is Care of, Magical Creatures and a cauldron of I hope I pronounced this right. Amartentia would smell for me like fresh hay, clean leather, jasmine and salty popcorn.

[Andrew]

I think you should go to a movie theater with a cowboy. They'd help you check a couple of those boxes.

[Audrey]

At least that would do it.

[Andrew]

Well, it is the holiday shopping season and we want to remind our listeners that we have special deals you'll want to act on right now. First, our Patreon keeps this show running as smoothly as the surface of Harry's Cauldron and we have our best offer of the year. Get 20% off an annual membership. Just visit patreon.com mugglecast and sign up for an annual subscription at the Dumbledore's army or Slug Club level. This this will guarantee you next year's gift plus a year of ad free episodes, bonus episodes, access to our member only Potter Communities, a chance to co host Mugglecast one day like Audrey is right now, and so much more. This offer is only available to new or former patrons. Again, that's patreon.commmugglecast and you can click the promotional banner at the top or use code Holiday at checkout. Don't forget you can gift memberships as well. So if you want to ask Santa for a Patreon membership as a gift, you can do that now just go to patreon.com mugglecoast cast gift in bonus.

[Eric]

Mugglecast this week we are going to be figuring out who will be getting what for their Secret Santas on three occasions. One is Christmas at Maloy Manor in 1997, the others Dumbledore's Army Christmas 1995 and Hogwarts staff meeting 1992. So all three of these occasions we've randomly assigned and I mean random Secret Santas to all of these characters and are going to be talking about their gift giving expertise. It'll be a really fun thing to listen to this holiday season.

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So check that out over on the Patreon. And also just one more holiday promo. You can get 20% off all [e-mail] right now you can get the you can get cozy this winter with a Muggle Cast hoodie, maybe Laura's pants or a long sleeve tee. And all of these offers run now through December 19, so please act now. And now let's jump into chapter by chapter. Like I said, Chapter 9 of Half Blood Prince. The Half Blood Prince.

[Eric]

We last discussed this chapter on MogoCast389 titled Quirky Walrus, which was airing on October 15th of 2018. What you're looking at are memories. This is the most important memory I've collected.

[Laura]

It is from Mugast episode 389.

[Micah]

Is Hagrid even qualified to teach a newt level course? I mean, I don't, I don't want to, you know, rag on Hagrid, but.

[Andrew]

Too late. I mean, I don't.

[Micah]

I don't think he's qualified to teach regular courses, much less a newt level course.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I think that they have no other options when it comes to Hagrid. He's the best that they've got, so just let him do his thing. But I'm also trying to think right now, like, does anybody really pursue care of magical creatures outside of Hogwarts? You know what I mean? Like, does anybody go on to that we know of to take a position in this type of field? I don't think so. So maybe Dumbledore also kind of sees it as like, well, do we really need somebody seriously teaching this class?

[Eric]

Yeah, nobody's in a highly professional manner. Nobody's trying to be a magizoologist. Just like Newt Scamander.

[Andrew]

Right. Newt wrote that book. And they were like, well, we don't need anybody else to work in this field. Newt's got it all done.

[Eric]

This memory is everything.

[Micah]

Well, I think that was a great clip.

[Andrew]

Do you think that sounded nasally? You definitely sounded younger. I don't know about nasal.

[Micah]

Younger. Okay, I'll take that.

[Andrew]

Wow, we were brutal. And playing that right now during the holiday season. Oof. So sorry, Hagrid.

[Laura]

Rough.

[Eric]

Well, as we get into this chapter discussion. It's the first day of school. Does that make any one of us want to say anything in particular?

[Micah]

Welcome back.

[Eric]

And Micah?

[Micah]

Choo Choo.

[Andrew]

Well, no, you say that when you're on the train.

[Micah]

What do you mean when you're on.

[Andrew]

The first day of Hogwarts.

[Eric]

What's it doing at the top of the dots?

[Audrey]

Somebody put it in the discussion.

[Andrew]

I added it.

[Eric]

That's okay.

[Andrew]

Oh, train ride only. Okay.

[Micah]

Train wreck is more like it.

[Eric]

Oh. Oh, all right. Well, anyway, it's the first day back at school and something that stood out to me throughout this chapter is that there are actually a few good teachers at Hogwarts. Harry has kind of a mixed result first day back and I wanted to highlight some of the different teaching styles and methods of the teachers we come across today starting with McGonagall. Now we don't have Transfiguration class with McGonagall today but all the Gryffindors nevertheless meet with her in the Great hall before the first period and she's assigning them their timetables but it's like this malleable thing because she still needs to have a conversation with each of them about their O W L results. And Micah, I know you were a little concerned about sort of efficiency here.

[Micah]

Yeah, I just. When I was reading it I just didn't understand why there was no way for them to confirm OWL results and issue schedules before the start of term using, I don't know, magic.

[Eric]

To name a method.

[Micah]

Now I will say I did think about this a little bit more and perhaps McGonagall didn't know that Slughorn was going to be coming to Hogwarts and that switched things up a little bit with. We see it with Harry and Ron in this chapter where they weren't planning to take potions and then they end up taking potions. So I could see that. But she goes through a lot more than just that with Neville and with other students. So I don't know, it just.

[Laura]

Yeah, I feel like with that it would be just like a magical find replace situation. So I think this is just for the plot. This is so that McGonagall can have some of the conversations that she's gonna have specifically pumping Neville up and throwing some shade at his grandmother. I think that's why this is here.

[Andrew]

I do think that if they used magic for literally everything in their lives, which it kind of seems like they could, then what are they going to do all day? So this kind of keeps them busy. It keeps their brain active.

[Eric]

Yeah, I just think, you know, it's cutting it kind of close. They have to get off to their first period and if they're still adding and dropping class that morning, you know, that's.

[Andrew]

Well, what's Hogwarts without some chaos? We've established this many times over the years.

[Eric]

I forgot the students forgot to add the. The the to the chaos quotient for the year so that the school can keep running as disastrously as it does. Anyway, we mentioned this a moment ago but McGonagall remembers that Harry was on track to be an Auror that that was an aspiration for him. So she, in her conversation with Harry asks him why he's not taking NEWT level Potions. And this just reminds me of the very excellent chapter from the last book, you know, career advice where she goes toe to toe with Umbridge and says, you know, if it's the very last thing I'll do I'll make sure this boy becomes an Auror. Some teachers might say that she's walking the walk, she's living it. Now the fact that she checked in with Harry who for some reason say maybe an owl got lost wasn't aware that he's still eligible to take Potions this year and I, you know to what was said earlier I think this was a last minute switch with Slughorn and Snape maybe. But it's good that McGonagall's here because otherwise he would have missed out Harry and Ron.

[Audrey]

Yeah, I think it's, it's really interesting that how much McGonagall is having to do here and I really feel like and I could be forgetting this from a previous book but Hogwarts could really benefit from a career. Career counselor, like a guidance counselor. Like I had one in college.

[Laura]

Okay.

[Audrey]

I came in as a freshman and I said I want to graduate with this degree. And they said okay, you need these prerequisites that you're going to get on your first two years and then your junior and senior year you'll have those prerequisites done and you can do these classes. And then when I wanted to switch majors two years later they said okay, well here's what you've got done, here's the things you need to catch up on and here's what your path looks like. And it's, I feel like that's a role they could definitely have at Hogwarts that would go very far for a lot of the students especially the ones that don't know what they want to do.

[Eric]

Yeah, makes sense to me. But yeah, regarding Neville, it's really interesting because Neville is not somebody that McGonagall has ever been warm to. You know, Neville is not an exceptional student that is well known, well documented but McGonagall actually pays him a compliment and it has to do with what happened at the end of last year at the Ministry. And regarding his class schedule, you know, she encourages him to take charms. She.

Is not as critical of his owl grades as Neville's gran apparently is and McGonagall offers to fight her. So pretty good stuff honestly. McGonagall's a great teacher well, and I.

[Andrew]

Think you see this come up a lot in the Muggle world, too, where your parents want you to go down a certain path in life. And it's really nice to see McGonagall being like, you know, follow your heart, not what your grandmother wants you to do. And that's a sign of a good teacher, a good role model.

[Laura]

Yeah. Especially someone who's also not trying to force you down their particular path of expertise. Like, she's totally comfortable being like, yeah, this isn't really it for you.

[Andrew]

And it takes a special person to be a transfiguration teacher, Neville. And I'm afraid you just. You're not cut out for it.

[Eric]

Well, yeah, she just. She knows his strengths. And again, like, she tells him he can't take transfiguration because he. She knows he wouldn't be able to, or she feels he wouldn't be able to keep up with the course load. And I'm like, that's the kind of teacher that all of these teachers should be. Frankly, you know, I wish we saw more of the teachers checking in with people in this way.

[Micah]

Definitely. And we get a pretty good balance. Or maybe you would even argue imbalance as we start to go through this chapter. McGONAGALL and you have Snape and then you have Slughorn, and you really get a sense for their teaching styles and you see, you know, not just maybe what their teaching styles are, but how they are as human beings, too.

[Eric]

Yeah. And, you know, we won't mention it too much, but, you know, Hagrid waves at the kids, and I think he's expecting to see them. Yeah. Audrey, you had one other point about Sassy McGonagall.

[Audrey]

I love when Sassy McGonagall comes out because she's kind of a sleeper sass in the books. But I like that she said, just because Augusta failed her charms owl, the subject's not necessarily worthless to Neville, reminding him that his grandmother did fail her charms owl. So I thought that was really funny.

So in the same kind of breath that she was saying transfiguration not for you, she also lifted him up and said, but look, you did something. Something that your grandmother didn't do. And you don't always have to follow her path. She's kind of encouraging his that's your dream dad, not mine moment.

[Eric]

Yeah. Yeah. And again, to what Andrew was saying, like, our parents have these opinions on these, you know, subjects or these disciplines and might not be our wishes. The fact that Neville got scored that highly on his owl shows that he is actually really good at Charms.

[Andrew]

Here's an example four of us can relate to. Do you remember telling our parents, yeah, I'm doing a podcast. I want to do more of that. Like, oh, okay, kid, yeah, sure, whatever. But stay in school, please.

[Eric]

We're now starting the trend of anytime we're impersonating our younger selves, we're going to hold our noses like this. Even if it was only six years ago, we're holding our noses to talk about ourselves.

[Laura]

I do think it's really interesting that Augusta refers to Charms as a soft sense subject, because I think you hear this a lot in the Muggle world, too. There are certain types of disciplines that people tend to kind of stereotype and scapegoat as being, like, easy A's and, like, soft subject matter. I think a lot of the times, like, social sciences, unfortunately, get that kind of bad rap, and it's really not fair.

[Eric]

Fair.

[Laura]

I don't think it's fair to Charms either to consider it soft.

[Micah]

Yeah. Our head of house teaches charms.

[Laura]

Right.

[Eric]

Well, for Charms specifically, though, I do agree with you, Laura, like, in general, a lot of those social sciences, like, no, those are. Those are big disciplines worthy of as much or more respect. In fact, liberal arts, too, give all the funding to, you know, liberal arts. But no, for Charms. We just don't see enough of the class to think of it as being anything, I think, competitive if you're, you know, the only. Even when Flitwick is preparing for the. The school for the final battle, the kinds of stuff he's doing, which no one but an accomplished Charms professor could do, are still like having to do more with, I don't know, making it glitter in the sky and not so much like, vivisecting your enemy. So it just kind of like Charms is viewed as soft because of. You can conjure hot chocolate, you know, and. And people just think of it for, like, whatever practical application they themselves have used charms for. And so they're maybe not understanding that somebody who can do that easily is actually as accomplished, but they play a.

[Micah]

Very big role in Sorcerer's Stone.

[Laura]

Mm.

[Micah]

Without a lot of charms, the trio wouldn't have made it very far.

[Eric]

That's a great point.

[Laura]

Yeah. I think this is all probably because charms are not seen as, like, probably a hard defensive strategy, nor are they an offensive strategy. So I guess because it's not the most assertive subject matter, that might be why people look at it. But again, that's. It's another example of people overlooking something that has plenty of value it's just not as black and white, I think, as sometimes people try to make these things out to be.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah.

[Audrey]

Kind of comparing it back to Eric, you mentioned, like, liberal arts in school. I think people just maybe that aren't as creative, don't value charms because you can get creative with a charm and that can be a defense strategy. Look at Wingardium, Leviosa and Sorcerer's Stone. I mean, I wouldn't personally have thought to levitate the club and hit the troll in the head with it, but it worked.

[Eric]

So, yeah, great point. We also get a mention of Divination. So it looks like Forens the Centaur is here for another year. He passed Dumbledore's rigid scrutiny that he applies to all his teachers here at Hogwarts. And he's done a good enough job that Divination is now being co taught with Trelawney and Forens. Of course, I was joking about Dumbledore caring about the teaching quality. But it's nice to know that Forens isn't homeless now that Trelawney is able to come back full time. And it looks like they're actually splitting the course load, which gets mentioned. None of the trio are taking Divination anymore. They're happy to see the back of it. But it's interesting that how they're splitting it. They're splitting it by year, which I think. I don't know about you guys, but, like, I feel like if I had year one or, sorry, year three, Divination with Trelawney, Year four with Friends, Year five, back with Trelawney, Year six with Fred. Like, I feel like that would be too much whiplash, like, to. To the years. And I wonder if there's not a better way they should be splitting that.

[Laura]

Yeah. Also just whiplash in terms of approach. Because we've seen the approach of Trelawney, and in the last book, we got to see the approach of Forens, and they are wildly different in terms of the way they view the discipline.

[Andrew]

If there were any other two professors teaching one course, it may have been different. But, yes, to your point, Laura. Like, they are opposite one another. And there's a debate about the quality of Trelawney's teaching to begin with. So, yeah, that would be a lot of whiplash. Juggling these two over the course of your career. Hogwarts career.

[Eric]

I know in particular, Parvati is very upset.

[Laura]

She is, yeah. When McGonagall confirms for her that, sorry, you're gonna have Trelawney, she walks away looking kind of disappointed, which I thought was so interesting because for the longest time Parvati and lavender have really thought the world of Trelawny. And I guess they got a better teacher last year. But also I think this is just another characterization of Lavender and Parvati being ultra feminine to the point where their priority would be having the hot teacher because he's hot.

[Micah]

What's interesting too about both of these professors is they're being kept at Hogwarts for their own protection. So it's interesting that they're co authoring this subject.

[Eric]

That's a very interesting point.

[Micah]

I mean, I guess Dumbledore could let friends go back into the forest, but probably wouldn't be the best.

[Eric]

No. Yeah. I think to your point, forenz is as sort of cut off from his people as Trelawney is from any anyone that anywhere else she could go at this point. So our biggest teachers who we get double classes with this chapter are Snape and Slughorn. And we'll talk about them after this break.

[Andrew]

After this.

[Audrey]

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[Laura]

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[Eric]

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[Audrey]

Feel your body relax and let go.

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Of whatever you're carrying today.

[Audrey]

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[Eric]

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[Audrey]

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[Audrey]

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[Laura]

Even at the last minute.

[Eric]

Phew.

[Audrey]

Find a Marshall's near you.

[Eric]

And we're back. Let's get into the defense against The Dark Arts class. This is our first one to be taught by Severus Snape. And this is going to go for me in the category of bad teachers, horrible teachers. Snape is as bad as ever. Just in one example, Snape does his thing. He gets up in the class. He usually is asking a question anyone in the class can answer. He asks a question. Only Hermione knows the answer. And instead of praising her for a correct answer, he first doesn't even pick her. He looks around the room. He's like pausing, dragging things on. Then he like, audibly sighs. It says, okay, Ms. Granger. She gives the correct answer and he berates her for saying that her answer is too close to what it says in the PO in the Dada book. Now, listen. When he clarifies the uses of nonverbal spells was the question. When he clarifies, his explanation is also not pretty much at all any different than what Hermione said. So she was right. And Harry notes, anyone else, any other teacher in the school would have given Hermione 10 points for a correct answer. Not Snape.

[Micah]

And we see that happen in the next class with Slughorn. Also a Slytherin.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

So not all Slytherins are Snape.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Hermione shouldn't be discouraged from reading the book and having an answer that she, you know, prepared. And remember, like, this is something to be celebrated, not punished for.

[Laura]

This is just Snape being Snape, though. It's not. This is not the first time we've seen him be this way in a class. Not the first time we've seen him ignore Hermione when she was the only person with her hand up.

[Andrew]

But maybe, just maybe, he was gonna be in a better mood now that he has the role he has so yearned for over the years.

[Eric]

That's the hope, isn't it? That's the hope.

[Andrew]

Go ahead, Audrey.

[Audrey]

I was gonna say. I mean, Laura, you said that it's not the first time this has happened. It happened in the very first class with Snape. The very first Potions class. She's raising her hand and Harry has. He keeps calling on Harry. And Harry finally is like, I think. I think Hermione knows the answer. And, you know, then he calls her a. Know it all. I believe so. I mean, it happens. It's been happening for six years.

[Laura]

Mm.

[Eric]

Yeah, they're all used to it. It's just. Any. Any thoughts that Snape would be easier now that he's getting everything he ever wanted out of being able to teach this class? Yeah. Sorry, no luck. Not, not for this group of students. And what's particularly alarming I think for me out of this whole class is that Snape is dissatisfied that Harry has not been cursed, I guess halfway through or jinxed. And I'm gonna read it directly from the book. We all know what's happening but it says Ron, who was supposed to be jinxing Harry was purple in the face. Harry Potter, his lips tightly compressed to save himself from the temptation of muttering the incantation. So Ron's bless him, he's trying nonverbal spells. Pathetic. Weasley, said Snape after a while. Here, let me show you. He turns his wand on Harry so fast that Harry reacted instinctively. All thought of non verbal spells forgotten, he yelled protoco. Snape is going to just attack Harry. And it's only by the benefit of Harry's much honed defensive magical reaction reflexes that Harry doesn't get hexed by Snape. But this gives Harry his first detention of the year.

[Andrew]

This is a guy who was just fighting with Lord Voldemort a few months ago so you can understand why Harry would instinctively react like this. So it's outrageous and frustrating for Snape to use Harry as a guinea pig. I mean he should know that Harry's been through countless at this point traumatic experiences.

[Eric]

Uh huh.

[Micah]

Not only Voldemort, but I think that Harry is just legitimately triggered in this situation and that he has every right to be considering how Snape treated him during occupancy lessons. In order of the Phoenix. And Snape is just looking for any opportunity to make Harry look foolish. So I say good on Harry for stopping Snape in his tracks.

[Audrey]

Yeah, I think if Snape were a good teacher, which we've established he's definitely not, he would have demonstrated not, I mean, you know, a polite jinx, something funny like non harmful on somebody that wasn't Harry. Knowing that Harry has gone through so much trauma but he would have demonstrated on somebody at the beginning of the class. So here's how it looks when you do it. Obviously it's hard to demonstrate a non verbal spell but to whatever extent you or extent that you can.

I think he would have done that as a good teacher. Obviously this was not the way to go. I don't think he was going to harm Harry because he is in a class of students in the middle of Hogwarts, but he was certainly going to humiliate him and obviously like Micah said, trigger Harry based on all the things he's been through in his years.

[Eric]

Yeah, I Mean, he would have. You just can't attack a student like that, and especially not Harry, to everyone's point. Like, you would obtain. You would make eye contact, you would obtain consent. You would let the student know, say, hey, come on up to the front. You know, we're going to do it. Can I have a volunteer? Right, right. Not just Weasley, you suck. Move aside here, Harry. I'm gonna, you know, like that. It just. Good on Harry. I think we're all in agreement. There just.

[Micah]

There's also zero trust factor here between Harry and Snape. It would be different if it was McGonagall or Flitwick or probably any other professor in Hogwarts, because it's Snape. Harry is extremely resistant right off the bat and it's just unfortunate that this happens to him. Like you said, he gets detention first class, which is not fair, in my opinion. The other thing, I think part of it is that Snape is looking for an opportunity here and to really take Harry down a couple pegs because he knows that this is Harry's best subject. And he's probably thinking to himself, how can I embarrass Harry in front of the rest of these students? In front of members of Dumbledore's army? I am the Dada God, essentially, now that I've been given this role. So I think there's a bit of that at play here as well.

[Eric]

That's a great point. And he mentions the Daily Prophet reporting of Harry being the Chosen One. He throws that in Harry's face as if it's anything Harry ever asked for. So he's clearly really sore about that. But I was trying to come up with some kind of explanation like, Snape can't really be this awful, can he? And I had a theory. I want to know what you guys think. We know from the way that this book opened that you know Snape is in an unbreakable vow with Malfoy's mother to protect Draco to make sure his mission with the Dark Lord succeeds. Draco is a Death Eater now, meeting one on one with Voldemort. So is Snape deliberately making Harry's life awful in front of Malfoy, who's also in this class in order to keep up the ruse that Snape is not soft or on the good side because a lot of this is for Malfoy's benefit. Malfoy's sniggering at all the right moments, etc. Etc. What do you guys think?

[Laura]

Why not both?

[Eric]

Classic Laura. Both things can be True.

[Laura]

Yeah, I really think so. I mean, I, I really like the, the point Micah brought up about Snape trying to take Harry down a little bit here. Because we have to remember the only reason that Harry is still on track to be able to become an Auror is because Snape is no longer teaching Potions. So Snape has to know that had he still been teaching Potions, it would have blocked Harry's path to be able to do what he's doing right now. So he's trying to take him down a peg in his best subject. Makes sense to me. And it's also a good look for him in front of Malfoy.

[Eric]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Audrey]

And I mean, I think. I personally think Snape just has fun being miserable. I think, you know, he knows he's got one year in this position, there's a curse on it, and he knows what's coming and he's not going to waste it, like being nice all of a sudden just because he's finally teaching the subject he wants to teach. He's still just going to make the lives of the students miserable because it's fun for him.

[Laura]

Yeah. And to that point, Audrey, you brought up, you know, he only has a year in this role. He knows it. So, yeah, he's finally getting what he wants, but he knows what is at the end of that year and he's not exactly looking forward to it.

[Andrew]

So I was wondering why any of the students didn't bring that up to him, like Harry. Hey, professor, do you realize you're probably going to be out of this role by the end of the year? So what do you think's going to happen to you? Like, I wonder what his response would have been.

[Audrey]

So do you think you're going to be dead by the end of the year?

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Laura]

Are you going to be dead?

[Andrew]

Tell me you're going to be dead. Tell me you're going to be dead.

[Eric]

All good points. And there's something else, Andrew. You've mentioned what Hermione says after the fact because Harry's pissed at Snape. And then Hermione says something completely unexpected.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I liked this moment where Hermione says that Snape was sounding like Harry when Snape talks about the Dark Arts quotes. When you, Harry, were telling us what it's like to face Voldemort, you said it wasn't just memorizing a bunch of spells. You said it was just you and your brain and your guts. Wasn't that what Snape was saying? That it really comes down to being brave and Quick thinking. And to me, this reads as Hermione observing the deep passion that both Snape and have Harry have for fighting the Dark Arts. If you're passionate about something, you're following your gut.

[Laura]

Yeah. I think it also speaks to the necessary respect that the subject matter is owed.

Y' all know that I'm a true crime girly over here. And I am fascinated by the psychology behind serial killers and, like, what makes them tick and why they are the way they are. It doesn't mean that I worship them or that I think they're great. I just find it really, really interesting. And in order to combat stuff like that, you have to be able to understand the machinations. Right. And how these things work. And I think that's what Hermione is really telling Harry here is like, he has to know the Dark Arts really well in order to be this good at it. Just like you do.

[Eric]

Yeah, but. But Harry just wishes Snape wasn't so. I don't know, loving about it. Lovingly talking about the Dark arts.

[Micah]

So do you think, though, perhaps it's the fact that Harry doesn't want to have anything in common with Snape that's.

[Eric]

That's gotta be true? That's gotta be part of it.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Because the. The less often that that's pointed out, any similarity between them, the more that. What is it that Snape says after the. Or Dumbledore says this of Snape, that he would have liked to have gone back to hating your father's memory in private. It's like they can hate each other in private and they shouldn't, like, be pointed out that they're similar to one another because they think of each other as their adversary. So a happier subject now we go on to. It's funny, this reverse though, because we talk about, like, we're going to Potions class and we expect Snape to be there and him be awful. But this is easily Harry's best Potions class for many reasons. Snape is not in it. And I have a question. Since we've been talking now about good and bad teachers, my question to the group is, is Slughorn a good teacher? Because this class is pretty awesome. Slughorn does everything right. He escalates the previous. Like, everyone in this class is doing something new to them. Right? It's a challenge. And this can be awfully done under a bad teacher. But Slughorn invites questions and he incentivizes them. He sweetens the pot. He says, here's a bunch of really complicated potions that Newt level Students can create. And here's the coolest one of all. It's called Felix Felicis. And for anyone that can make me the best draft of living death, you're going to get this bottle. And you will be lucky for 12 hours.

[Andrew]

See, I think incentivizing makes him less of a good teacher. I think the incentive should be just getting good grades and continuing your furthering your educational career.

[Eric]

Matter, Andrew, were you never good for a teacher so you could get a pizza party?

[Andrew]

I never want anything. Now, I agree there's probably going to be some differences in opinion here, different teaching styles and whatnot, but to me, and especially something like liquid luck, if it was just pizza, okay, but you're going to make somebody lucky to, I don't know, maybe cheat on a test in a couple days.

[Eric]

Into the castle.

[Andrew]

Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah. This. This prize might be a little too far.

[Eric]

Okay.

[Micah]

I think I need to see more than one class with Slughorn to be able to decide whether or not he's a good teacher. I would also want to see how he teaches younger students because this class that we see is at such a higher level where he's not really doing any teaching. He's just giving them directions on what they should be doing for the class and expecting that they're going to rise to that level. And so I don't actually see him teaching them much of anything.

[Eric]

No. That's incredible. There's only.

[Micah]

It's more theater. Actually, this whole class falls in line with Slughorn's personality and the fact that he lays out the potions and then he asks. And going back to what we were talking about earlier, it's Hermione who answers all the questions correctly and gets the points for Gryffindor, unlike what happens in Defense against the Dark Arts. But yeah, it's all very much for show. And that's why I think he is kind of dangling that incentive out there for the students to say, hey, you know what? You do well in my class, you'll get bonus.

[Eric]

I tend to think of, like, my favorite days in class are the ones that really, I guess, spurred me into action were the ones with the incentive and the carrot. I think maybe that says more about.

[Micah]

But this is day one.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, and I couldn't agree more, actually, as far as, like, wanting to see how Slughorn would handle the children. Like the actual, like, first and second years, like potions, like having to teach fundamentals. Can you really see him, you know, instructing, or will he be asking people half the class about their grandparents, you know, like what exactly would he do for the. Anyone that's not Harry's class.

[Audrey]

But at the same time this is his. Yes, it is his first lesson and these are six year students going, you know, into this level. Maybe he does just want to see what they know, how they work, get to know their styles. And so this is a good way for him to kind of sit back and walk around and see where are these students at. They've been taught by this other professor. I don't know what they've been taught, I don't know where they are. So it might be just be a good opportunity for him to observe and see what he does need to teach. That's giving him a lot of credit but could be his strategy.

[Laura]

No, I think you're exactly right. I think he's trying to assess the talent in the classroom. I don't think there's a problem with that. I don't have a problem with the incentive to try and like encourage the students to perform.

The thing that I think is a knock against Slughorn is the favoritism that is the big problem in his classroom. It's not above anything else.

[Eric]

It's not as overt as Snape's favoritism.

[Micah]

Well it's ironic though, two sides of.

[Eric]

The same coin is interesting, isn't it.

[Micah]

Though that now Harry is going to become the Potions favorite after all these years.

[Eric]

Yeah, it shows with the right teacher you can, you can do good stuff.

[Micah]

And you're actually Snape.

[Eric]

Something that occurred to me. So this is the first class of year six of Newt level Potions. The only people in this class, there's only 12 students that make it. The only people in this class are the ones that exceeded expectations in their owls. So they're working on what? The Draft of Living Death. Where have we heard of that before? This goes back to the first question that Severus Snape ever asked the class in Potions in Year one. Back in book one, Snape asks Harry specifically what would I get with an infusion of wormwood and asphalt? This the Draft of Living Death. The fact that Harry didn't know this in Year one causes Snape to berate him. This is such an intense potion that we now see how utterly absurd it was for Snape to pick the Draft of Living Death as anything that Harry would know anything about. And it's a miracle that Hermione had ever heard of it back in Year One.

[Andrew]

So in a way this is kind of like a full circle moment. Because we're going back to how it started for Harry in book one. And Eric, I would say we just get to it here. You mentioned a possible book mistake between books one and six.

[Eric]

It's just that. Yes. So the infusion of wormwood and powdered root of asphodel are not mentioned at all as being ingredients to the draft of living death. You know.

The only thing you hear about is the soporous bean that gets crushed. So unless it's an omission, it's. I kind of view it as an error really. Because I'd like to know how you infuse wormwood.

[Micah]

Speaking of the full circle piece, you were talking about how Snape berates Harry for not knowing about it in Sorcerer's Stone. But it's Snape who actually is teaching Harry how to brew it here in Half Blood Prince. You're shaking your head, but it is that.

[Eric]

That.

[Micah]

Yeah, he is following Snape's direction.

[Eric]

Well, again, it's a deeply punishing question for a first year. And it shows how unfair Snape has always treated Harry. And before we move on, I just wanted to say Hermione's success in this class, or slight lack thereof, really does show that Hermione, who's clearly the best at following, you know, what's written in a book, is not going to cut the.

[Micah]

The baby.

[Eric]

Yeah, the bean. The. Exactly. She's not going to cut the bean.

[Audrey]

She.

[Eric]

Well, she's cutting it. She's not going to squish the bean. And it, it shows that. Especially with potions, but probably with everything. You need a level of intuition. And this is why Hermione does not win. Felix Felicis here is that she. Harry, kind of substitutes the intuition by following a book written by somebody who knows their stuff, I. E. Snape. But Hermione is clearly following the directions perfectly and she doesn't win.

[Audrey]

And that's gotta be so frustrating. I related. I relate to that. So hard. It's. In a lot of ways, I'm very much a rule follower. I follow the directions. When they would give you those worksheets in school that say, like, read all the instructions first before you do anything. And the last one is like, don't do anything and put your pen down or whatever and everybody else would do everything. I was the one who was sitting there with my pen down because I read the instructions. So this really. I related to this with, like, I can't bake, I can't cook. I. I mean, I can make some mean scrambled eggs. I can make A bowl of cereal and like, that's kind of it. I'm just. I don't have the intuition. I can follow the directions of a recipe and the result is just not nice. So I really felt her pain here. It's just gotta be so frustrating to sit there, especially to watch someone that, you know, has not historically been as good as you in this class just to succeed all of a sudden. And she doesn't know why at this moment.

[Andrew]

And when you hit those choke points, that's when you might. Audrey, want to go to TikTok or elsewhere for some tips from others who have practiced it a lot. Just like Harry is going to the Half Blood Prince's book. And this is why it's no problem for Harry to borrow Snape's notes, in my opinion, because that's what you do. You get help from others. That's what we're taught growing up, like, ask for help. That's what Harry is doing here.

[Eric]

You know, I'm just glad that Snape wasn't like the many people that write recipe columns and having like a whole life story in the opening paragraphs. Can you imagine if he, like, really wrote on the back of every page? I once went to the sea and I was. It was there that I concocted this idea of crushing the bean with the knife. You know, craziness very quickly when we're.

[Micah]

Talking about the potions up at the.

[Laura]

Front of the room.

[Micah]

Because I know with this book in particular, we like to tie it back to Chamber of Secrets, but.

[Eric]

Oh, please do.

[Micah]

Polyjuice Potion was also one of the brews at the front of Slughorn's classroom. And it's actually referenced that Hermione would of course know what it is because she brooded back in Chamber of Secrets.

[Eric]

So we are going to be talking about the ethics of what Harry does after we come back from this break.

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[Micah]

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[Eric]

Uh, limu is that guy with the binoculars watching you?

[Laura]

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[Eric]

Cut the camera.

[Micah]

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[Eric]

Savings. Very underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company affiliates.

[Micah]

Excludes Massachusetts.

[Audrey]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast. Smart move being financially savvy. Smart move. Another smart move having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan like A good neighbor. State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts, and savings and eligibility vary by state.

[Eric]

Welcome back. Okay, so Harry's new Potions book has writing in it. And speaking of writing, write, write is what Harry does the right thing here. He takes credit for this thing he found in the book. He brews a perfect potion. Slughorn's never seen anything like it. And Harry gets the bottle of Felix Felicis.

[Audrey]

Yay.

[Eric]

The hero wins, everybody.

[Andrew]

I actually don't think there's any issue with Harry leaning on Snape's notes. First of all, he starts off when he gets handed this book by Slughorn by wanting to follow the textbook's directions. But he's overwhelmed by the amount of writing from the Prince. It's all over the book. You can't avoid it. So even if he really, really wanted to, you're still seeing all of his notes. So in a way it's kind of impossible to avoid these. And I don't think there's anything wrong with taking on some alternate directions. It's risky. But he quickly finds out that they actually work really well. So why not continue to lean on them?

[Eric]

Harry Fez is up in the Gryffindor common room. He'd like to do it sooner. He's about to do it sooner, but people are eavesdropping because he's famous now. So they go back to the Gryffindor common and Hermione has an issue with it. She says, well, it's not like it's your work. And what I think she means by that is it's not like it's your intuition and potions that let you succeed in me. But she also is is biased. She's jealous, right? Because anytime somebody outperforms her. So I don't find anything wrong with what she's saying. I think that it's the same problem that she says that I have with Harry is that he's passing this off as his work when it sort of wasn't. It's not his idea anyway. But what Ron says is. Ron says, but following these instructions could have gone either way. It could have been a disaster. So does that equate or does that cancel out the advantage here?

[Micah]

So if you're to take Hermione's logic here, would you then argue that the work that's being done by the rest of the students is not their work either? It's the work of Libacious Barrage.

[Andrew]

Exactly.

[Micah]

Who put the directions into the textbook in the first place. I think the issue is that not all the students have the same direction available to them. They don't all have the written work of the Half Blood Prince. Only Harry does. So therein lies the issue. But at the end of the day, Harry still had to do all the work. He still had to brew the potion. He's just following different directions. Look, you probably don't bake a cake the same way I do, or Andrew does, or Laura does. Like, we all follow different instructions, and maybe we add our own little flair to it. And maybe it tastes great or maybe it doesn't taste great.

[Laura]

All right, well, I think we need to have the Great Muggle Cast Bake off now.

[Eric]

Oh, my God.

[Laura]

Or see who makes the best cake.

[Andrew]

If Audrey makes me scrambled eggs and I'm like, damn, Audrey, those are great scrambled eggs. Good job. And she's not going to be like, well, that wasn't my work. That was some recipe I found online and they did it. No, that was Audrey's work.

[Eric]

Here's the difference. If you're assigned a novel, say a Shakespeare play, and all the students get the rare, raw text of the Shakespeare play, but one of you, and this is. This is going to date all of us, when we all went to high school, Spark Notes. One of us uses Spark Notes. This explains the meaning behind every line, every innuendo, every joke, every historical accuracy, everything that will be interesting. You get so much more out of the book by reading SparkNotes. It's a huge ad for Spark Notes, if those still exist. But everyone who doesn't have that doesn't have that opportunity. What? I would argue that what Snape has written in this book, by writing it in the book, it's not alternate directions. It's advanced, evolved, trial and error, updated instructions, and so there. It's more akin to Spark Notes giving the answer to the students rather than letting them kind of fiddle with it themselves.

[Audrey]

Is it the answer, though? Or is it just a better recipe, for lack of a better word? I mean, should they not just be publishing these notes if this is what's going to lead to success more often?

[Eric]

We know of Harry's skills in potions, which is nil. And he's able to brew the perfect, or at least the best potion in the class just by following these instructions. Ergo, these are really good. This is the answer to potion making, essentially.

[Audrey]

But as a devil's advocate, could that be because he's finally receiving good instruction from Snape? He doesn't know that, but he, his direction hasn't, from what we've seen, been great. So maybe he could be a really good Potions Master and he just hasn't had good instruction.

[Laura]

I do think what works in Harry's favor here is that Harry's not afraid to color outside the lines. Hermione is someone who is very much like, I must color inside these lines. Right? So they're both following instructions. They're just following different instructions. I think what makes Harry successful here, it starts with the knife and the bean, right where he's trying to cut it and he's like, not getting anything. And he goes, oh, what the heck? Let me just try this and see if it actually works. And he sees, holy cow, it actually does work. And that gives him the confidence to keep following the alternate instructions. So I think I don't have a problem with that. What I have a problem with is that it's deceptive of Harry to pass this off as his own natural prowess. Honestly, if he had like, pulled Slughorn aside and been like, hey, so just to be real with you, there's all these alternate instructions in this book. Do you want to talk to me about these? Because I would actually like to learn. Like, I think if Harry had taken the initiative to say, oh, wow, this is a subject matter where I could be better and I could actually be creative in order to, like, deliver a more quality product, then I don't have a problem with the Prince's instructions, you.

[Eric]

Know, because Harry's using it to pass the class. But what if he. What if he found out why crushing the bean worked better? Right? Or, like, took an interest in understanding, like, what, what actually makes the Prince's instructions superior in, in terms of theory and actual subject?

[Andrew]

Two other things. A, we can blame Slughorn here, partly, I think, because why didn't he check the book to make sure there weren't A, to ton of notes scribbled in it? And B, why did Snape leave it in that classroom anyway? Shouldn't he have been holding onto that himself?

[Eric]

It is.

[Andrew]

I mean, those are clearly valuable, thoughtful, meaningful notes. Snape is someone who holds things very close to the vest. It seems like a major mistake on his part to have forgotten that book.

[Eric]

I'm honestly surprised he doesn't break into Gryffindor Tower when he first hears Slughorn praising Harry's potions like ability. Figure out what, just take the book back? Yeah, absolutely. Because, like, he would want that back.

[Micah]

So maybe the book reminds him too much of Lily.

[Laura]

Yeah, well, yeah, because I wonder how often she would have been collaborating with him. Like, I wonder how many of those notes were things that they came up with together, like raised by.

[Andrew]

Right.

[Eric]

50% of my genetics come from the person that co wrote this book or these Cliff Notes. No, I'm interested in kind of figuring that out because Lily Potter's Potions acumen gets a reference here by Slughorn. He's like, you know, she was a dab hand. And it is interesting, but I do think that Lily was probably good at Potions because that's something that she and Snape either connected over or because Snape was passionate about it. Lily, who was a genuine friend to him, also learned or had the benefit of learning some of these things at the same time Snape did. It's really interesting. So Laura, you mentioned earlier though, that Snape or that Harry gains confidence from his success. And the problem, or another problem, is that this success and this confidence will lead to trust. And this is where Ginny has an issue. She happens to be overhearing them in the common room and she says, let me get this straight. She comes up to Harry and says, you're trusting the writing in a book. You don't know who wrote it. And Harry knows immediately where she's coming from. And he dismisses it. He's like, eh, this isn't the same.

[Andrew]

Well, I mean, it's worth asking Harry, but. And they do investigate it and nothing comes up. But especially after the events of the end of Order of the Phoenix where Harry got played, it's definitely worth asking this question.

[Laura]

Yeah, that's so relevant and I think it's a great connecting the threads moment too, because in book six, Harry is about to become very heavily reliant on a book with instructions from a stranger. Just like Ginny did in book two, which is why she's calling this out here.

[Eric]

Going back to our good teacher, bad teacher, since we know who the prince is, does the writing in this book actually make Snape a good teacher of Harry when all the ego is gone?

[Andrew]

He's a good teacher. He knows his stuff. If he wanted to try, if he really wanted to, he could be a good, friendly, inspiring teacher. But he's not. So could he. He's a bad teacher who knows his stuff.

[Audrey]

Yeah, I mean, there's a dip. There's a huge difference between being a good teacher and, you know, knowing what you're doing. I mean, I'm good at things. I know I'm not a good teacher. I'm. I get very frustrated with people very quickly. So I don't think this was the profession for Snape. He maybe could have gone into being a Potions recipe, I don't know, go into publishing. Publish all your tricks and tips and tricks. Geez, like do something besides teaching that you clearly hate. But obviously his path went a different way.

[Laura]

Yeah, Snape is definitely a subject matter expert, not a teacher. So he's good. Good at with his expertise.

[Eric]

Fair enough. Fair enough. Let's get into some odds and ends. Now. At the end of the chapter, Katie Bell is the last remaining member of Harry's original Quidditch team. And there's a sweet moment in the Gryffindor common room where Harry's like, you don't need to try out. Come on. She goes, no, let me try out. Because teams have been ruined by playing the favorites. I like that. Katie Bell, who was on the Quidditch team before Harry ever was, is willing to go through the, you know, the motions of trying out for the team.

[Andrew]

That's admirable. It keeps you on your toes. It prevents you from getting comfortable as a player. And it's interesting seeing her have this take in a book where there is a teacher, Slughorn, who likes to play favorites.

[Eric]

Yeah. And we mentioned early, you know, Lily gets mentioned by Slughorn as being a dab hand at Potions. And again, I'm curious about sort of the relationship between Lily and Snape and Potions. Yeah.

[Audrey]

One thing I thought about that. I don't think this is true, but it was kind of fun to think about. Maybe Lily was just like a Potions prodigy and maybe she taught Snape everything he knows and he's now passing the Sophos.

[Eric]

We don't know.

[Andrew]

And that explains why he left the book in the Potions room because he didn't want Lily's work so close to him.

[Eric]

And that explains why he loves Potions so much.

[Audrey]

Yeah. Yes.

[Laura]

Yeah. I love that thought.

[Eric]

Hey. Hey.

[Andrew]

She's the one potion he could never crack.

[Eric]

Oh.

[Andrew]

Couldn't figure that one out.

[Eric]

Another thing. Michael Corner, bit of an odd and end. This is more of an odd than an end. Michael Corner asks, Professor Slughorn, have you ever taken Felix Felicis, sir? And Slughorn gives what I can only assume is a completely honest answer. He says, twice in my life, once when I was 24, and once when I was 57. Two tablespoonfuls taken with breakfast. Two perfect days. Guys, I'm curious. How have we not pulled this thread before? What circumstances do we think was Slughorn up to when he was 24? And when he was 57, that would have caused him to take this potion. 24.

[Andrew]

Maybe he was wanting to go on a date with a gal, maybe wanted some good luck on the date. 57. He was probably really struggling with a New York Times crossword puzzle that day.

[Laura]

I was gonna say it would be helpful to know canonically, how old is he at this moment, because then we can just mathematically say, well, this is what was going on in the wizarding world when he was 57 and 24.

[Andrew]

Yeah, apparently his exact age is not specified, so it's a bit of a mystery.

[Eric]

But it's definitely something to ponder. Listeners at home, send us your ideas via themugocastmail.com email. We'll read it on a.

[Micah]

There are 24 hours in a day.

[Eric]

Okay. And there are 57.

[Andrew]

525,000.

[Eric]

Well, it's time for MVP of the Week for this one. We're counting Harry's line in this chapter. No need to call me sir professor as the undisputed all time great sassy Harry line. I pulled everybody here. No, I didn't. We all agree. So the MVP of the Week this week is what is the second best sassy Harry line of all time throughout the whole book series?

[Andrew]

So when Draco is teasing Harry about not being a prefect in order of the phoenix, Draco says, you see, I, unlike you, have been made a prefect, which means that I, unlike you, have the power to hand out punishments. And then Harry replies, yeah, but you, unlike me, are a git, so get out and leave us alone. I remember having a chuckle about that when we were doing our last chapter by chapter reread.

[Eric]

I love it for my mvp. It's Harry. It changes every day. You see, Just. I'll never. That will never not make me laugh.

[Micah]

That's in reference to the news. The news, that's right.

[Eric]

What are you doing? The news changes every day.

Order the Phoenix.

[Micah]

So this is from Prisoner of Azkaban, then. They're talking about, I believe, the Firebolt, Draco says. Got plenty of special features, hasn't it? Said Malfoy, eyes glittering maliciously. Shame it doesn't come with a parachute in case you get too near a dementor Crab. And Goyle sniggered. Harry responded. Pity you can't attach an extra arm to yours, Malfoy. Then it could catch the snitch for you.

[Laura]

We don't get all of these great claps in the movies, and I hope they fix that in the TV show. Mine's a real throwback from Sorcerer's Stone. And this is from when Dudley is telling Harry about the new Muggle school that he's about to go to. They stuff people's heads down the toilet the first day at Stonewall. Want to come upstairs and practice? And Harry responds, no thanks. The poor toilet's never had anything as horrible as your head down it. It was. Might be sick. Then he ran before Dudley could work out what he had said.

[Eric]

Classic.

[Audrey]

Yeah, that's a great one. And then I also kind of threw it. Back to the earlier books during the Dueling Club in Chamber of Secrets, Lockhart is showing Harry what to do. He says, just do what I did, Harry. And Harry says, what? Drop my wand? That just always gives me a chuckle.

[Eric]

And now it's time for our links line segment. Mugglecast listeners who are Slug Club members over at patreon.com mugglecast have participated in this week's question, which was in our chapter. Harry's usually favorite Defense against the Dark Arts is taught by Snape. Did you Meaning the listeners and patrons. Did you ever have a subject that you loved be taught by a teacher that you didn't? That you didn't like?

[Andrew]

So Barry said, I took women's lit in undergrad. I really enjoyed the books, but the teacher only ever wanted to talk about how evil men are in the stories we read, which was a shame because there were so many more interesting topics to cover from those books.

[Eric]

Rachel says, I loved English, but I had an older teacher during my freshman year of high school who shamed me a ton for reading fantasy and told me that they didn't count as real books. Question mark, question mark, question mark. I ended up reading most of my sci fi and fantasy books at home that year. Oh, I this gets me. This bothers me.

[Micah]

Tom said. I used to like the Civil War history and did pretty well with it in the past. But when my last teacher turned it into a football analysis, which I don't understand at all, I failed the class because of the teacher.

[Laura]

He sucked, Matthew says. Not as a student, but as a teacher. One student put in my evaluation that he had been looking forward to the class for years and I had done such a miserable job I had ruined it for him. To be fair, I should have realized I was a bad fit for the class on the first day when nobody even looked at me during my lecture. Or maybe I should have realized it when someone shouted at the guest speaker, can you teach this class? Instead, every few years when I get a little self esteem worked up, I remember that class and everything resets back to the way it was.

[Eric]

Oh, my goodness.

[Laura]

Rough.

[Eric]

Matthew. That's.

[Andrew]

It's.

[Eric]

It's rough. I'm sorry, man.

[Audrey]

So Robert says, I went to a Catholic minor seminary for high school and two years of college back in the early 1960s, when things were really beginning to warm up in critical Bible theory. But my Bible history teacher was very much like Professor Binns, teaching history of magic, lecturing through notes, reciting very dry lists of names and events, and offering absolutely no historical interpretation or relating the biblical stories with historical events from other sources, all of which I was getting very interested in exploring. Instead, the classes were boring and very discouraging. Only one thing still sticks in my memory from his class, and it's a question from the final exam. Which king attacked but didn't take Jerusalem? Which king took but didn't destroy Jerusalem? Which king attacked and destroyed Jerusalem? I didn't know the answer then and still don't, but I do remember the question as an instance of the worst teacher and teaching I ever experienced.

[Micah]

Oh, man.

[Eric]

Yeah, I. I don't think I'd have recovered from that either.

[Micah]

And that bat lady says, in my high school's final year of compulsory subjects, before you get to take electives, I was really starting to get into accounting. For some reason, the teacher didn't like me at all, going so far as to berate me for the way I tapped my pen. As an adult, I really enjoy dealing with finances and do quite a bit of it in my job. I've always wondered how far I'd have gotten if she didn't put me off the subject slightly spurred on by the fact that my cousin became a chartered accountant and is doing very well financially.

[Eric]

Yeah. Though that's wild. I've. Yeah, yeah.

[Micah]

Oh, no, go ahead. I'm sorry.

[Eric]

Whenever you're, like, bullied by a teacher or shamed by a teacher, the teacher think they're better than you or the literature you read is less than what they read. Like, get over yourselves. Like, you guys are there for a reason. Like, you're supposed to foster the learning of the students and to push back against the changing tide of, like, reading preferences of younger and younger classes every year. Like, come on, that's not productive.

[Micah]

So I have one quick example here, too. I was taking astronomy in college. It's a subject that I was always interested in, so fascinated to learn more about it. And I remember distinctly we had a Test scheduled on September 11th. This was 2001.

[Eric]

Wow.

[Micah]

And we were all still not exactly sure what was going on. So we went to class and I remember the professor saying to us, well, these types of things happen all over the world all the time. So life goes on and we're still taking the test. Now, he did give everyone the opportunity to retake it because I feel like there was quite a bit of backlash from a lot of the students. But that sticks out so distinctly in my mind even till this day.

[Eric]

And that was with a bunch of New York natives. Everyone that was in New York, right?

[Micah]

Well, upstate, yeah. But yeah, quite a few, I'm sure. Remember, it's not just New York. I mean, every, everything that happened in Washington D.C. and in Pennsylvania as well.

[Eric]

Yeah. My point was people's family members could.

[Micah]

Be, you know, 100%. Yeah.

[Eric]

So just wild.

So thanks to everybody who submitted that slightly more personal links line subject. And if you have any feedback about today's discussion, you can contact us by emailing or send us a voice memo recorded on your home phone or your computer. I don't know why I said home phone. Mogocastmail.com is our address.

[Micah]

And next week, chapter by chapter, continues with Half Blood Prince, Chapter 10 the House of Gaunt. Be sure to visit mugglecast.com for links to our social media Patreon transcripts, our favorite episodes, and lots more. And if you're looking for more podcasting from the four of us, listen to our other shows, Millennial and what the Hype Just did a great Stranger Things season 5 episode for more pop culture and real world talk. And now it is time for Quizzage.

[Eric]

This week's question. In this chapter, Dumbledore exposes his injured right hand to the whole school. Roughly what percentage of people in the world are right handed just like Dumbledore? Is that 55%, 65%, 75% or D90? The correct answer was D90% of people in the world apparently are right handed. So if you're a Lefty, you're very special. 65% of people with the correct answer say they did not look that up. And this week's winners include a lefty who needs left handed scissors. A righty with a lefty sibling, Almond Ashley B. Blue Man Groupie Cara Cheese Shark Da Vinci the Lefty Dumbledaddy's not so clever idea to put the Horcrux on Elaps Owl Leftorium Geo I play Fluffy's harp is a northpaw a thing Julie and Faye listening from Tanzania Lockhart's last brain cells that still live in Hogwarts. Quesadilla Kayla righty tighty, lefty loosey, innie outy, forky, spoony. The left handed no maj. The ordinary kid who joined the slug club with the help of some crystallized pineapple. The real Slim Bortie. And what about righties who throw lefty good names? Everybody. We did it. And here is next week's quizzage question.

This chapter features both love potions and the draft of living dead death, which puts the drinker into a sleep so deep it's near death. In William Shakespeare's famous love story Romeo and Juliet, Juliet drinks a potion to fake her death, putting her to sleep for over a day. Where is Juliet when she drinks the death potion? And this will take you back to English class when you're reading a play. And guess what? Quizzitch is your open book quiz so you can use the spark notes for this one. Submit your answer to us on the quizzic form located on the Mugglecast website. Mugglecast.com quizzitch if you're already on our website, maybe checking out transcripts or the Must listens page or anything else at all, click on kwizzitch from the main nav and send in a submission. Audrey, we want to thank you again for joining us.

[Audrey]

Thank you. I was really happy to be here. I had a great time.

[Laura]

Great to have you.

[Micah]

I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Laura]

I'm Laura.

[Audrey]

And I'm Audrey.

[Micah]

Bye everyone.

[Andrew]

Bye.

[Audrey]

Bye.

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