Director Kat Candler Bring Us Behind the Lens & Joseph La Corte Shares Threads of Truth

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Murdaugh: Death in the Family Official Podcast
Episode: Director Kat Candler Brings Us Behind the Lens & Joseph La Corte Shares Threads of Truth
Date: November 12, 2025
Hosts: Mandy Matney, Liz Farrell
Guests: Kat Candler (Director, Episodes 6 & 7), Joseph Lacourt (Costume Designer)

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Episode Overview

This episode takes listeners behind the scenes of Hulu’s Murdaugh: Death in the Family, focusing on two key creatives: director Kat Candler, responsible for the sensitive yet devastating final episodes depicting the Murdaugh tragedy, and Joseph Lacourt, whose costume design brings depth and authenticity to the dramatisation of true crime. Mandy Matney provides journalistic context, while the guests delve into their craft, the emotional impact of the project, and the responsibility they felt in telling this almost unbelievable true story.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Directing the Emotional Core of the Story (with Kat Candler)

• Sensitive Depiction of Violence and Trauma

  • Kat describes the pressure and anxiety of recreating the murders of Maggie and Paul:

    "You get to a point where, you know, your stomach's getting a little anxious because you're actually gonna have to shoot this experience... There was so much respect trying to be paid to everyone involved." (Kat Candler, 04:11)

  • Focus on portraying events from the victims’ perspectives, not sensationalising violence:

    "To see a gun as much as possible? You know, in this case, we see it again from their perspective and we don't see him and we don't have his POV in this, but I had nightmares for weeks." (Kat Candler, 07:25)

• Creating Space for Victims

  • Efforts were made throughout filming to honor victims, including moments of silence at key points on set:

    "We did throughout the course of the season as far as, like all of these, you know, horrific milestones throughout with all of these characters." (Kat Candler, 08:24)

• Humanization and Universal Themes

  • The show sought to show the complexity and humanity beyond headlines:

    "This opened that up. Instead of just getting that narrow window, you’re getting, like, more of a novel of a lived experience of these humans." (Kat Candler, 09:03)

    • Universal themes include addiction, alcoholism, shattered marriages, and the search for approval.

• Reclaiming Maggie’s Story

  • Kat felt honored to depict Maggie’s final hours and her struggle to find her own voice amidst her failing marriage:

    "I loved that I got to spend that time of reflection with her and trying to reclaim her story... give her the space and the time and the reflection." (Kat Candler, 11:18)

2. The Complexity of Paul Murdaugh

• Mandy reflects on her shifting perception as a journalist:

  "He did kill Mallory and... is responsible for her death and he has all these problems. But... he was the son of a narcissist and an addict and was dealing with so much in his life..." (Mandy Matney, 13:15)

• Sources close to Paul suggest he wanted to take accountability but was prevented by his father:

  "If he could have, he would have taken accountability for the boat crash, but his father would never let him do that." (Mandy Matney, 13:50)

3. The Anatomy of Manipulation and Family Dynamics

• Liz describes the chilling PR tactics during the jury’s visit to Moselle, the murder scene:

  • "There was a button up shirt hanging... as if this were the missing shirt... It was all a PR stunt and not a good one because it was nothing short of sad. Something evil had happened at the kennels..." (Liz Farrell, 05:33)

• The centrality of legacy and image in the Murdaugh family, and Alec’s willingness to do anything to 'protect' it:

  • "It’s Alec’s belief, almost a religious belief, in his legacy within the family... nothing was more important than being a Murdaugh, even when sacrifices had to be made." (Liz Farrell, 16:33)

4. Balancing Real-Life Respect with Dramatic Needs

• Kat on empathetic storytelling:

  "Good storytelling is human storytelling... there’s such a beautiful job and a haunting job of the human drama at the end of the day that we all connect to." (Kat Candler, 15:33)

• The show is lauded for capturing both the 'why' and the 'how' of the tragedy, both dismantling the “impossible to believe” myth and showing how bad choices, denial, and lack of accountability led to disaster.

5. Critical Scenes: Behind the Lens

• Kat shares how the target-shooting scene between Alec and Paul added subtext through competition and missed shots:

  "In the rehearsal, Jason, because he’s brilliant, was like, let's figure out when each one is hit, who hits it when... tell a story with that as well." (Kat Candler, 19:22)

• Final episode’s depiction of the botched roadside shooting:

  "There was this idea of like a carousel that you're getting flung off of and like the dizziness, the craziness of that..." (Kat Candler, 34:05)

6. Authenticity in Costume Design (with Joseph Lacourt)

• Joseph’s North Carolina roots and connections to the ‘Southern legacy’ archetypes shaped his approach; extensive research made the characters feel real:

  "After a while, it just started to feel like I was sitting down and looking at personal family photo albums." (Joseph Lacourt, 38:55)

• The power of clothing in performance and audience recognition:

  "There are many instances... where the clothing influenced the actor into becoming the character... The most impactful and the most weighted... was the first time I'd ever seen Jason step out of hair and makeup wearing the clothes Alec wore the night of the murder." (Joseph Lacourt, 42:50)

• Even details like Mandy’s trademark jean jacket brought authenticity and recognizable visual cues:

  "I think for Britney especially, it became a security blanket of who Mandy was for her." (Joseph Lacourt, 41:01)

• Collaboration between departments and with Mandy ensured authenticity at all levels:

  "You especially... brought so much important facts and knowledge to the project, which really honestly helped my job immensely." (Joseph Lacourt, 47:06)

• Challenges included finding replica garments for key scenes and mass outfitting local extras for realistic South Carolina events (e.g., Watermelon Festival).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Kat Candler on directing through trauma:

  "I've not had that experience with a show before or anything that I've done, and it really just kind of rattles you." (Kat Candler, 04:11)

• On the Murdaugh family’s manipulation:

  "It was all a PR stunt and not a good one because it was nothing short of sad." (Liz Farrell, 05:33)

• On universality of family trauma:

  "You are not me, you are not your father, you are not your mother. Like, make your own choices, build your own life, and don't, you know, fall prey to the things that we did." (Kat Candler, 21:22)

• Kat’s visceral reaction to visiting Hampton:

  "It just felt empty... It feels more economically depressed than I expected... my mind is kind of racing of like, oh, you have this prominent family that feels like they own this entire small, little space..." (Kat Candler, 28:13)

• Joseph Lacourt on the power of costuming:

  "The most impactful and the most weighted... was the first time I'd ever seen Jason step out of hair and makeup wearing the clothes Alec wore the night of the murder. And then watching him perform the 911 call, getting choked up about it, just thinking about it." (Joseph Lacourt, 42:50)

• On Mandy’s fight for truth:

  "Mandy Matney is to many people a hero. Breaking the story the way you did saved so many people's lives.” (Joseph Lacourt, 50:35)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:05 – Reenactment of Alec Murdaugh’s interview with SLED agent David Owen
• 04:11 – Kat Candler on the emotional burden of directing the murder scenes
• 07:25 – Nightmares and boundaries faced while depicting violence
• 11:18 – Reclaiming Maggie Murdoch's perspective
• 13:15 – Reflections on Paul Murdaugh’s complicated legacy
• 16:33 – Family legacy and manipulation
• 19:22 – Target-shooting scene; subtext in performance
• 28:13 – Shock of visiting Hampton and its socio-economic realities
• 34:05 – Creating the chaos of the staged roadside shooting
• 38:55 – Joseph Lacourt’s costume research and personal connection
• 42:50 – The chilling effect of costuming on set
• 47:06 – Collaboration for authenticity in every detail
• 50:35 – Emotional gratitude and acknowledgment of Mandy Matney

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Episode Tone & Closing Thoughts

The episode is deeply empathetic, reflective, and earnest. Both Kat Candler and Joseph Lacourt express a profound sense of duty in honoring the truth and those affected, going well beyond superficial television tropes. Mandy, Liz, and their guests reject sensationalism in favor of nuanced, human storytelling rooted in painstaking research and authentic emotion.

As the hosts note, Murdaugh: Death in the Family not only dramatizes crime but broadens societal understanding, keeps pressure on local justice systems, and vividly reconstructs the lived experiences behind the headlines.

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Next episode tease: An interview with Jason Clark, the actor who played Alec Murdaugh.

Transcript

[Mandy Matney]

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[Liz Farrell]

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[Ellick Murdaugh]

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[Kat Candler]

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[Mandy Matney]

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[Mandy Matney]

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[Joseph Lacourt]

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[Mandy Matney]

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[David Moses]

Visit maybelline.com to shop Skyhigh Mascara now and we'll be right back. Welcome back to the Murdoch Death in the Family Official Podcast. I'm Mandy Matney, creator of the Murdoch Murders Podcast now known as True Sunlight. Today with my co host Liz Farrell who has been covering the Murdoch story since 2019, we are going behind the scenes to talk to two of the most talented films, fabulous and fascinating crew members from Murdoch Death in the Family, award winning writer and director Cat Candler and Emmy nominated costume designer Joseph lacourt. These two people really stood out on set. When I think of the heart and soul and dedication that went behind this project. Cat's skillful and deeply thoughtful direction and decision making in episodes six and seven allowed for the horrific story of Maggie and Paul's murders to be told in the most scary, sensitive of ways. While not shying away from the hard to face emotional truth and societal implications of those scenes and Joseph's dedication to giving audiences one of the most finely tuned visual recreations I have ever seen in a true crime series brings so much depth and authenticity to every scene, creating an immediate recognition of what is happening on screen in episode seven. I was again reminded of this careful attention to detail in the scene where Elec finds out from SLED agent David Owen that he is in fact the primary suspect in his wife and son's murders and that witnesses were contradicting his alibi. The first time I watched this very tense and telling moment was during Ellick's trial when the video of this meeting at SLED between Agent Ellen, Alec Murdock and his best friend Corey Fleming, who turns out was also a co conspirator of thefts from clients. Even listening to this scene in the series gives me chills at how authentic it feels.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

So just have two more questions for you. Did you kill Maggie? Did I kill my wife? Yes, sir. No, David.

[Mandy Matney]

Do you know who did?

[Ellick Murdaugh]

No, I do not know who did. Did he kill Paul? No, I did not kill Paul. Do you know who did? No, sir, I do not know who did. Do you think I killed Maggie? I have to go where the evidence and the facts take me. I understand. Do you think I killed Paul? I have to go where the evidence and the facts take me. And right now, there's not anything that points me to anybody else.

[Mandy Matney]

Kat. Mandy, it's so good to see you.

[Kat Candler]

So good to see you.

[Mandy Matney]

So you are the director of episodes six and seven. Episodes six and seven dig into some of the most complex, violent, and emotional parts of the Murdoch saga. As a director, how did you decide what aspects of the family's unraveling and gruesome but essential pieces to highlight visually?

[Kat Candler]

You get to a point where, you know, your stomach's getting a little anxious because you're actually gonna have to shoot this experience that, you know, this really horrific, tragic event. And, you know, I think there was a. There was so much respect trying to be paid to everyone involved. And, I mean, there's so much sensitivity to it in the conversations with the actors, the conversation with the crew, like, what we do and do not want to show. And from 106, you know, we're taking this from the Maggie and Paul's perspective. We're taking it from their pov. And so, like, what were those moments like? Just from a human perspective, and we had shot everything leading up to Paul's first shot, and I'll get a little, like, you know, emotional about it, but you're. Again, you just feel it in your bones. And I just remember talking to Johnny, like, are you okay? Like, do you need anything? And right before we called. Right before I called action, I went to him and just, like, held his hand and just. And, you know, I'm trying to, you know, not cry and, like, weep and sob because it shakes you to the core. And I've not had that experience with a show before or anything that I've done, and it really just kind of rattles you.

[Liz Farrell]

At the very end of Alec Murdoch's trial, Alex, attorneys Dick Harpoutlian and Jim Griffin insisted that the jury take a field trip to Moselle to see the house and the kennels where Maggie and Paul were killed. I remember sharing with Mandy at the time that this was a risky thing to do on their part, because naturally, the jury would be Thinking about the horrifying things that had happened there that night and who had done them, I was very confused by why the defense thought this was a really good idea. We all soon learned why the defense, or someone in the Murdoch family or connected to the family had set up props throughout the property. Props that might get a juror to remember parts of Ellis story and accept those as true. For instance, and I'm not kidding, there was a button up shirt hanging in the window of the house as if this were the missing shirt that Ell had on the night of the murders. According to Paul's Snapchat video, there was an old fashioned bike set up near the path from the house to the kennels, just like it might have been if Maggie, as Ellis said she liked, likely might have had ridden her bicycle down to see the dogs. There was a flower pot with a snowman and the name Buster painted on it. And a stuffed chicken dog toy in one of the dog's kennels, as if that were the real story behind the chicken in Bubba's mouth. It was all a PR stunt and not a good one because it was nothing short of sad. Something evil had happened at the kennels. And according to the media pool member who was chosen to take notes on the visit, this much was clear. The energy was somber and out of nowhere, a storm formed. While they were on the property. The jury seemed to feel the heaviness in the atmosphere.

[Mandy Matney]

Is there anything about those particular scenes that you wanted to leave out that you didn't want, just did not want.

[Kat Candler]

To see a gun as much as possible? You know, in this case, we see it again from their perspective and we don't see him and we don't have his POV in this, but I had nightmares for weeks. I mean, to be frank, like, I didn't. I was like, my sleep pattern was like totally off. I was having these recurring nightmares about it. It just, again, it hits you to the core.

[Mandy Matney]

Yeah, it's definitely horrible.

[Kat Candler]

You know, what monster can kill their own child? Like, that is just. You can't fathom where you are in someone's mind to be able to do that with such callousness and such like, disregard and like, ego and that just, you know, sticks with you. And yeah, it was, it was a hard, a hard one. A hard one to experience as an, as a director and just as a human.

[Mandy Matney]

Did you guys do like a moment of silence for the victims or anything?

[Kat Candler]

We did throughout the course of the season as far as, like all of these, you know, Horrific milestones throughout with all of these characters.

[Mandy Matney]

I think that that's something really important. It's so clear in the show of the difference. I think that, like, in South Carolina, a lot of people will say the Hollywood treatment of it is known as, like, glossing over everything and coming in and taking a story and not caring about the people involved. You know, you could feel that on set that everybody was very much affected and moved by the story and the victims.

[Kat Candler]

What drew me to working with Michael and Aaron and the scripts was that, you know, again, we see these narrow slivers of people's lives in the media, and this opened that up. Instead of just getting that narrow window, you're getting, like, more of a novel of a lived experience of these humans. And that's what I found. So respectful. Again, like, sure, I've seen, you know, we've all seen plenty of the Hollywood, like, gloss it over sensational stuff, But I think everybody's intention with this was to, again, open up these stories and open up these people's lives and see, like, what they were going through. And also, you know, I think what is so connective about the show is there are all these horrible, horrific, tragic events, but there's also, you know, these very universal things that are happening with this family and with these characters. You know, everything from a father who will never give you approval, and you're, like, fighting desperately to have approval of a father. You have addiction, you have alcoholism, you have a marriage in ruin, and trying to find your own agency of your life, and all of these very universal themes in such a specific story, with such specific characters in such a specific, very small town, South Carolina place.

[Mandy Matney]

The show, I believe, captures the why and how of it, where still to this day, there's lots of people out there who believe that Alex did not do it, and nobody wants to believe that he did it. And that's something that I've come to realize, that it's just one of those things that's so horrible. And if you realize that it's real, then it could happen to you, too. And a lot of people don't want to go there, But I think the show does a really good job of walking everybody through what it was like to live with Alex Murdoch and how it got this bad and how no one held him accountable, and it just all spun out of control. And Maggie's story. Do you want to talk about that?

[Kat Candler]

Yeah. I mean, living with her in 106 on the heels of, you know, this discovery in 105 and sort of Your life this, like, almost tsunami of your life and your choices, like, hitting you, destroying you. And so I loved that I got to spend that time of reflection with her and trying to reclaim her story and trying to reclaim her, trying that next chapter, which never came to be, and getting sort of the insight into, you know, starting the episode with Edisto and on a visual, you know, director standpoint, trying to open that up with more light and more, like, you know, air to breathe, and the contrast to Moselle, where it's much darker and much more claustrophobic. And how can we give her the space and the time and the reflection that, you know, very few people probably got to see or witness or talk to her in conversation about? And I loved. I called it like, scenes from a marriage, you know, in reference, too, but, like, these scenes from a marriage and ruin right before everything happened. And again, her kind of reclaiming her story in just sadly, like, the hours before. And so I felt an honor in that, to be able to kind of live with her and, like, give her.

[Mandy Matney]

A voice in that it's a domestic violence story at the end of the day. And also, you see Maggie, she realized that she hitched her wagon to the wrong star, and Paul is realizing it, too. And again, that digs into the why.

[Kat Candler]

To your point, like, even Paul, you know, trying to turn his life around and trying to own, you know, the responsibility and again, a new chapter and wanting so badly for everyone to be doing better, his dad to do better.

[Mandy Matney]

I will never forget that I had several moments of reckoning with Paul while I was reporting on him, because at the very beginning, I wanted people to know that, like, he did kill Mallory and, like, he is responsible for her death and he has all these problems. But I slowly began to realize and really realize, like, he was the son of a narcissist and an addict and was dealing with so much in his life that he couldn't help and he didn't get enough time to fix things.

[David Moses]

Several.

[Mandy Matney]

Several sources close to Paul told me separately that if he could have, he would have taken accountability for the boat crash, but his father would never let him do that.

[David Moses]

One of the earliest red flags in the Murdaugh murders case is the almost 30 minutes it took for Ellic to call Buster the night Maggie and Paul were killed. If he was worried that vigilantes were after his family, as he told investigators, then why didn't he immediately call his other son to make sure he was okay? The answer to that is because, of course, Ellick knew Buster wasn't in any danger. I was reminded of this in one of the opening scenes of episode seven, where Ellic finally does make that call.

[Kat Candler]

Have you checked your phone?

[Mandy Matney]

No.

[David Moses]

Why?

[Kat Candler]

Cause your dad has texted in the group chat, like, a hundred times trying to get ahold of you.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

About what?

[Kat Candler]

I don't know, but he says it's an emergency.

[Liz Farrell]

Buster.

[Kat Candler]

Dad.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Hey, what's going on? She's sitting down. Yeah. Your mom and pawpaw must have been shot. Dad, that's not. That's not funny. What are you talking about? They're gone. They're gone. Buster.

[David Moses]

Gone.

[Kat Candler]

Buster.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Brooke, I'm with you. Yeah. I need you to get out here, okay? As soon as you can. Can you hear me?

[David Moses]

Next, I talked to Kat about how she approached the scenes that covered the days after Maggie and Paul's murders.

[Mandy Matney]

The Murdaugh story is still unfolding in real life and for many families in South Carolina. How do you balance staying respectful to victims while also adhering to scripts and creating compelling drama?

[Kat Candler]

Good storytelling is human storytelling, right? And so, again, I think this show does such a beautiful job and a haunting job of the human drama at the end of the day that we all connect to, whether it's, you know, set in small town South Carolina, whether it's set in space or whatever. Like, we are drawn. Drawn to human stories and human relationships and human conflict. And this does it at such an extreme high level, but it also does it on a very everyday level as well, in problems and issues and conflicts that we all relate to in our everyday lives.

[Mandy Matney]

The father son relationship that people can relate to, the marriage falling apart that people can relate to. Not a lot of people can relate to a prosecutorial dynasty in the way that the Murdochs had. But people have told me this for years, that they have a family like that in their town. Like a lot of people have families that have been operating in that way for a long time.

[Liz Farrell]

In the scene of Eleg and Paul target shooting on the evening of Paul's murder, there's a small and subtle moment where the Eleg character, awaiting Paul's arrival in a golf cart at Moselle, almost puts on a mask. His face goes from emotionless but calculating. And when he sees Paul, it's like a switch has gone off, causing Elec to put on his dad face, the one that falsely leads Paul into believing everything is just like it always has been. It's that small switch up that I hope resonates with audiences. It's an idea that Mandy and I understood from the beginning about the Murdaughs it's not just that two things can be true at once, which they can, obviously. It's something deeper and darker. And that's Alec's belief, almost a religious belief, in his legacy within the family. And as a part of the family, nothing was more important than being a Murdoch, even when sacrifices had to be made. This scene between Elec and Paul is heartbreaking. It's a moment that proves the theory, though Paul's desire to do better, be better, and his crisis of conscience would continue to be existential threats to Elec and therefore to the family.

[David Moses]

Boom.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Oh, regular Doc Holliday right here, fellas. When we gonna go see Granddaddy? I wanna give your momma a chance to get here first so we can all go together as a family. Got to warn you though, he's in pretty bad shape for the win. That's why we gotta go though, you know, I don't know if we'll get to again. I thought you were gonna stop taking that shit. Don't expect you understand, son. It might be. I understand better than anybody.

[Liz Farrell]

Bo.

[Joseph Lacourt]

I fucked up playing.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Goddamn right you did. I got a court date Thursday to remind me. Go on, go again. Don't miss this town, though. I know it's been a lot, all my bullshit. It has. I never meant to put you through all that. That's okay, son. Guess it just goes with the territory.

[David Moses]

Yeah.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

This shit's hard, Bo. What? Life. Life is hard. We can't. I don't know, we just gotta do better than we've done, be better than we've been, you know, we don't gotta let it bury us.

[David Moses]

Cat gave us insight into how that scene was created and the subtle choices that are made with the consistency of Elek and Paul's characters in mind.

[Mandy Matney]

The scene in six with Alex and Paul target shooting and then Maggie and Paul's last moments are incredibly gripping.

[Kat Candler]

It's, you know, really heartbreakingly written. But I don't think that the.

[David Moses]

I can't.

[Kat Candler]

I don't think the scene action of like, when each of them is actually shooting and when the bullets actually hit the bottles was written in. And so in the rehearsal, Jason, because he's brilliant, was like, let's figure out when each one is hit, who hits it when, and tell a story with that as well. So it was like another layer to, like, what was happening as far as, like, the competition between father and son. And also, like, he hits the first bottle and then there's a miss and a miss and a miss, but Paul hits the Last one. And there's like this interesting sort of subtext to the scene of, you know, Paul is trying to do better. And also like all this struggle of, you know, if his son is doing better than him, what does that say about him as a parent as well? So there was really. It was an interesting scene to kind of put on its feet because they brought a different layer that kind of went deeper that may or may not, you know, hit with audiences, but it's there. And that's. That truly is the experience of working with Jason Clark, who is quite frankly, a genius actor and so brilliant and so wonderful. And then of course, Johnny, who's just like the heart, like that big, beautiful heart of his. But yeah, that was a really cool scene to shoot. And then, yeah, Maggie and Paul on the front porch having this gorgeous heart to heart with each other in this reflection on her life. And her choices, again, going back to like these universal themes of as we get older and we reflect on our parents, choices that shaped who we are for good or bad. And, you know, seeing ourselves in this conversation of, like, how can we do better in our lives and own our choices, own our responsibilities, but also telling our children, like, you are not me, you are not your father, you are not your mother. Like, make your own choices, build your own life, and don't, you know, fall prey to the things that we did.

[David Moses]

And we'll be right back.

[Liz Farrell]

For nearly the entire time between Maggie's and Paul's murders and his trial, Ellic maintained that he was never down at the kennels with his wife and son. That evening. In this recording of a sled interview with Ellick from June 10, 2021, Ellick again laid out his alibi. He stuck to it and his team did too.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

You know, at some point, we were all back at the house together. Maggie had gotten home and, you know, we sat down, we ate supper, which we usually supper together. So the one thing I remember, I don't know how much detail y' all want, so if I start talking about something that you don't need, just tell me and I'll move to something else. The more detail, the better. So Paul has been having high blood pressure and his mama was worried sick about it. So we were actually, you know, this was a direct thing, getting him. He doesn't like to go to doctors, making him go get his blood pressure checked. His feet had swollen up recently. So, you know, that was a big, huge deal. Okay. You know, we hung around the house for a little while. I know that Maggie went To the kennels. I don't know exactly where Paul went, but he left the house too. Okay, how did Maggie get down to the kennels? I don't know exactly, but on normal occasions, she would drive. Drive a buggy, drive a four wheeler or. Very common for her to walk. Okay, how about Paul? Paul wasn't much of a walker, but he would use all of the others. Okay, but it. I mean, it could be. Anyway, you know, I don't know exactly. I wish I could help you with that. So. So they left and went down to the kennels. Well, Maggie went to go to the kennels.

[Mandy Matney]

Okay.

[Kat Candler]

Paul.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

And Paul left. And I'm assuming, you know, I'm assuming Paul left because of, you know, what happened. I mean, I'm assuming Paul went to the kennels. Okay, and what did you do once. Once Maggie and Paul left? I stayed in the house. Okay. And I was watching tv, looking at my phone, and I actually fell asleep on the couch. Okay, and what time did you. You know, I don't know exactly what time I woke up, but when y' all get my phone, you know, I think one of the first things I did when I got up was call Maggie because I was going to my mom's. And I know I texted her because I checked my phone. And what time do we say the text was, Jim? It's like 9:06. I didn't see it. Yeah, I got it written down for me. I showed you the other night. Yes, sir.

[David Moses]

I got this.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

So, you know, I texted her. So I called her just before that. And I mean, she. She didn't answer at that point. And I left to go to my mom's. Okay, y' all just have to. Look, I. I don't. I'm not sure if I called Paul. Well, and that. And that's why we're getting the phone, so we can nail down the times and.

[Kat Candler]

Right.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

And everything. So I left, drove. Well, you know, I'm gonna tell y' all this, even though I think it's kind of crazy. You know, I was certain that I heard them pull up. I mean, I was positive that I heard. And people don't just come out there, you know, we don't get like, pass through. I was certain that I heard them pull up, but. But they didn't.

[Mandy Matney]

Okay.

[David Moses]

This wasn't just something that Ellick told law enforcement. It very much became his defense team's mantra. His alibi was ironclad. The public was told. His attorney, Jim Griffin, even sat for an interview with A documentary that came out before the trial and went point by point sharing the details of Elliott's supposed moves. That night, of course, that all fell apart. Here is a pivotal scene from episode seven where Paul and Buster's friend Rogan Gibson unknowingly gives a statement to investigators that would change everything.

[Kat Candler]

When was it that you talked to Paul last?

[Ellick Murdaugh]

That night? Monday? Yes, sir. He was out at the kennels. Supposed to send me a video of my dog's tail. He never did miss. Maggie and Mr. Alec were there, too.

[Kat Candler]

Paul was out at the kennels with both Maggie and Alec.

[Mandy Matney]

What makes you say that?

[Joseph Lacourt]

I heard him talking in the background.

[Liz Farrell]

Of a call I thought I did.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

You heard Alec?

[Joseph Lacourt]

Are you sure?

[Kat Candler]

90% sure. You know what? It's okay. You have been through a lot. I think that's enough for today, don't you think? Thank you for coming in, Rogan.

[David Moses]

Yes, ma'.

[Mandy Matney]

Am.

[Joseph Lacourt]

Sir.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

If Alec was at the kennels, if.

[Kat Candler]

Alec has lied about being at the kennels.

[Joseph Lacourt]

Yeah.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

If you try to take down a Murdoch, you're need a lot more than I think I heard, though.

[Kat Candler]

You know what I keep thinking about is that night in your truck.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Okay.

[Kat Candler]

You remember how clean Alec's clothes were?

[Liz Farrell]

During Alec's trial, lead prosecutor Creighton Waters asked Rogan about the statement he made to investigators the day after the murders where Rogen had told them he was 99% sure Ellic was the voice he heard in the background of the call with Paul that night. As time went on, though, Rogen began to retract his statement, minimizing his certainty. That is, until he watched the video Paul had taken of Rogan's dog that night. Where Ellic's voice is clear to us, it wasn't at all surprising to learn that Rogan Gibson tried to take back his certainty of hearing Ellic's voice and the background of the call with Paul minutes before Paul's death in Hampton County. Loyalty to the murdaughstoelec wasn't taken lightly. To choose otherwise was to seal your fate and endure the consequences. According to sources familiar with the culture there, speaking up was not an option. Even today, the Murdaugh family disagrees with that characterization, though. Here, Kat and Mandy talk about Kat's experience visiting Hampton.

[Mandy Matney]

As someone who came into this story from outside of South Carolina, what shocked you the most while directing and being on this project?

[Kat Candler]

Long before we started shooting, Erin and I took a field trip to Hampton. It was not what I expected at all. It just felt empty and There's a. It feels more economically depressed than I expected. And I guess in that respect, like, my mind is kind of racing of, like, oh, you have this prominent family that feels like they own this entire small, little space, and it almost feels like the space has been sucked dry by whatever powers that be that override this place. And so that, I think, was my most, like, oh, moment was seeing the reality of the place that these people lived in was not expecting at all.

[Mandy Matney]

Well, I live an hour and a half from Hampton, and before I started working on this story, I had never been there either, because, as you know, it's really not on the way to anything. It's far off the beaten path. And I was stunned. Going to Hampton and being someone from the Midwest, been through a lot of little towns, lived in small towns. I was. It was almost like you said, it was almost like it's a town that is stuck in the 1950s or like a long time ago. It is stuck in the olden days, and it's like the whole other. Everybody else in the world moved on and it kind of stuck. And this is a fun fact. I don't know if you know this, but this story goes, and it's pretty much true that because PMPED was so known for their huge lawsuits against big corporations that that's why Hampton doesn't have a Walmart. The Murdochs did impact a lot of the reason why the town feels like that.

[Kat Candler]

And that's not to say there's probably so much beautiful joy there and great people. You can kind of. Downtown, there's like, an old movie theater that it seems like an arts organization had taken over and trying to, like, you know, have voice and visibility. So you can see, like, the pockets of, like, there's something. There are very special pieces to this place, but overarchingly, it feels like something came in and kind of took it all away.

[Mandy Matney]

Yeah, there are wonderful people from Hampton who were wanting for this story to be told and for wanting things to change, and I hope that they do.

[Liz Farrell]

The boat crash case and the murders of Maggie and Paul thrust the family into a spotlight they couldn't control, one that seemed all encompassing. From where we sat in the South Carolina low country, it felt like the entire world knew who Elle Murdaugh was. Little did we know at the time. But in the late summer of 2021, as we waited for charges to be filed, the story was about to get so much bigger. On September 4, 2021, Ellick called 911 and claimed that an unknown white man had shot him in the head as he was pulled over on a remote low country highway trying to change a tire on Maggie's still new Mercedes SUV that he was driving at the time. Immediately, Mandy and I knew Ellic's account didn't add up, which was confirmed by Mandy's sources and local law enforcement. Ellic's story quickly fell apart and Ellick and his team pivoted. Instead of being pursued by a shooter, perhaps the same shooter who killed Maggie and Paul, the story shifted to what seemed like a carefully crafted tale of the demise of a man in mourning. Ellic, the public was told, was trying to stage a murder so that his son Buster would get a $10 million life insurance policy that to this day has not been produced as evidence. In addition to the so called staged shooting, media was told that Ellic suffered a shot to the head with an entry and an exit wound, though no wound was visible 12 days later when he appeared in court for a bond hearing. And then media was told by Ellich's attorney that he was addicted to pain medication and had resigned from his law firm. Soon we would learn just how deep his thefts from clients went. In this scene from episode seven, Jason Clark as Alec, tries to enlist Mark Pellegrino as cousin Eddie to help him pull off his harebrained scheme.

[David Moses]

What's up?

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Ho. Just follow me, Eddie. They're after me.

[David Moses]

What the.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Who's after you, man? Everybody, Bo. Everybody. I don't see them. Everybody.

[Liz Farrell]

What the.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Whoa.

[Joseph Lacourt]

What the fuck did you do that for, Bo?

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Cause the sky fucking. Look, not that way, okay? Not now.

[Joseph Lacourt]

Now you gotta shoot me.

[David Moses]

Oh, shit.

[Joseph Lacourt]

No, man.

[Mandy Matney]

Oh, yeah.

[Joseph Lacourt]

Attic.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

You got to shoot me.

[Kat Candler]

Fuck, man.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

No, come on. Maybe it was you. Easy, easy, easy, easy, easy. Maybe it's you, Eddie.

[David Moses]

Alec.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Maybe it's me.

[David Moses]

What?

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Maybe she's a killed Maggie and Paul.

[Joseph Lacourt]

Alec, you are hired in a hot.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Air balloon right now.

[Joseph Lacourt]

I got no fucking idea what you're talking about, man.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

God, you mean that, Bo? You're my best friend, y'.

[Mandy Matney]

All.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

I got. It's over though, ain't it? What are you talking about? It's over, man? What are you talking about? They fired me. You know, they fired me. My partners. They fired me from the law firm, Bo. It's all fucking over.

[Kat Candler]

Holy shit.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

You know a man's gotta go out on his own terms, don't he, Bo?

[David Moses]

He does.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

I got to take care. I gotta take care of my son. Listen, man, you just gotta pump the brakes a little bit.

[David Moses]

I talked to Kat about The chaos of this real life moment and how she went about capturing it so perfectly. No one knows exactly what happened between Ellick and Eddie Smith on the side of the road that day, but this scene certainly struck at the heart of where Ellic was emotionally.

[Mandy Matney]

So episode seven's depiction of the roadside shooting was a rollercoaster. How did you manage all of the moving pieces?

[Kat Candler]

From the very beginning, in conversation with Michael, it was always there was this idea of like a carousel that you're getting flung off of and like the dizziness, the craziness of that and like, you know, your stomach hurts, like how. And so right on the heels of him getting fired, like, we just went handheld, like he's, you know, drugged out of his mind, trying to find something in the refrigerator, finds the jellyfish, trying to find the gun, the bullets. There's just like kind of chaos there.

[David Moses]

A carousel that you're getting flung off of is a very accurate way to describe how I felt at this time covering this story, not knowing at all at the time that the podcast I created would one day result in this amazing series.

[Mandy Matney]

Murdoch Murders Podcast and its current iteration, True Sunlight, continues to keep tabs on the Murdoch co conspirators in reminding public agencies about accountability.

[David Moses]

From your perspective as a storyteller, what.

[Mandy Matney]

Role do shows like Murdoch Death and the Family play in pushing for justice.

[Kat Candler]

For stories like this and for the perception in the media and audiences is to humanize everyone. You know, there's such a rippling effect of trauma for so many people that, you know, in the few people, I think there's the reminder that again, to your point, like these are real people, you know, and real people's lives that will be with us for a very, very long time. And so keeping those stories out there and heard and seen keeps the pressure on the justice system and law enforcement as well.

[David Moses]

I don't know who killed Paul Murdaugh. I don't know who killed Maggie Murdoch. I can't say who killed Stephen Smith. I have been investigating the Murdoch family for the better part of two and a half years now, and it is.

[Mandy Matney]

By far the craziest, most twisted style saga I have ever covered. There are five recent deaths connected to the Murdochs deaths, which all have more questions than answers.

[David Moses]

My name is Mandy Matney and this is the Murdoch Murders Podcast. I'm not going to lie. No matter how many times I hear Britney Snow read from the script of my very first Murdoch Murders podcast, I still get the chills. Now we have to introduce y' all to one of the most game changing crew members who leveled up literally every single scene of Murdoch death in the family. Costume designer Joseph lacourt. The first time David and I visited Joseph's studio with all of the costuming and photos and sketches for the show, I was overwhelmed not only with emotion, but with gratitude. I was so impressed with Joseph's meticulous pursuit of finding replicas of clothing that the Murdaughs and people in their world had worn at the the time. I knew that listeners of the Murdoch Murders podcast and all those who closely followed the Murdoch case, diving in deep to every available piece of information online, I knew they would really appreciate Joseph's effort. Because of Joseph's amazing work, viewers can now put themselves right there in the room with Ellick as he's talking to the boat crash survivors and their parents. Right there in the room with Ellick at Christmas with Buster and Paul. And right there in the courtroom as Paul turns to the gallery with a scared and lost look on his face.

[Joseph Lacourt]

I am going to fangirl for one second to say that this is surreal to be sitting across from you doing this. Like absolutely surreal. No, seriously, it's like crazy.

[Mandy Matney]

You would never imagine like a la fangirl back.

[Joseph Lacourt]

No need, no.

[Mandy Matney]

Like every single person in every interview has talked about you.

[Joseph Lacourt]

Thank you so much.

[Mandy Matney]

And how wonderful you are.

[Joseph Lacourt]

Everyone that is so nice. People are so nice.

[Mandy Matney]

So I have a new title for you. I think you are the FBI Investigator of fashion and I'm dead serious about that. No, you know how to find an item of clothing better than anybody else on the planet and I, I will stick by that.

[Joseph Lacourt]

Oh, that's very kind. Yeah, it's, it's, it's. This particular series was time for the FBI to come out for clothing because there was so many small nuances that were really impossible to find.

[Mandy Matney]

Yeah, and you dug deep. Your work is known for fine tuned attention to detail and authenticity. How did you shape the overall costume vision for the series, especially to capture that blend of Southern legacy and contemporary drama across episodes?

[Joseph Lacourt]

Well, you know, I grew up in rural coastal southern North Carolina. And so I was familiar with these archetypes and you know, I went to, grew up and went to school with people like Paul and Buster. And you know, I used a small town shady lawyer to get out of a speeding ticket, which we won't talk about, but you know, combined with the months of extensive research and my preexisting knowledge of this part of the south and this particular story, thanks to you, I was easily able to step Back into this specific Southern milieu, you know, and with all of the in depth research that I did and exploring this family so much, after a while, it just started to feel like I was sitting down and looking at personal family photo albums and. Which really helped me to get to know and understand them as people and not just characters.

[Mandy Matney]

Absolutely. What part of North Carolina?

[Joseph Lacourt]

Jacksonville. Right near Wilmington.

[Mandy Matney]

Okay. I love Wilmington.

[Joseph Lacourt]

Yeah, it's beautiful.

[Mandy Matney]

Have you watched the Summer I Turned Pretty?

[Joseph Lacourt]

No, but I'm going to do it now.

[Mandy Matney]

It's filmed there, and everybody's obsessed with, like, that area of the country now because of this show.

[Joseph Lacourt]

Incredible.

[Mandy Matney]

But I did not know that you were from North Carolina, and that makes a lot of sense of how you were able to capture the true Southern essence. And Southern coastal is different, too.

[David Moses]

Yeah.

[Joseph Lacourt]

And what's interesting is, like, it was like, during the show, I have friends who are actually lawyers in law firms. And so I would be like, hey, can you go shoot what the people look like in your office so I can just have another reference point? And so I had that as well.

[David Moses]

David, Liz and I learned so much about ourselves during the creation of this series. It was a huge moment for all of us when we stepped on the set and realized that years of our lives were right there in front of us. One of the funniest things that I've learned about myself is something that I learned from Joseph.

[Mandy Matney]

I didn't know that I wore a jean jacket a lot until you told me, and then you said it was iconic, so I rolled with it. And I've been wearing a jean jacket for most of these interviews.

[Joseph Lacourt]

Amazing. And, you know, and you know, I'm not saying anything out of school, really, but, you know, it off. I think for Britney especially, it became a security blanket of who Mandy was for her. And that's why when we would decide, oh, should we switch up the jacket? No, we always went back to the denim jacket. It also helps the audience quickly know, hey, there's Mandy again. Not that you couldn't tell it was.

[Mandy Matney]

Brittany Snow, but I love it. And I. Again, it's something that you don't notice until somebody else is looking at your life through that lens and you're like, oh, I do wear a jean jacket all the time.

[Joseph Lacourt]

Well, it must have been odd for you to come in and see your life on the wall in the Joseph.

[Mandy Matney]

That was the weirdest thing in my entire life. But I was mostly impressed. The research that you did on every single character in the show to make sure that you were reflecting them in a way that was accurate and respectful. That was just so amazing to me. And I wish that I had more pictures of your costume area. Is that what you call the costume? Cause every person's little closet, every character's little closet, I could say that's Alex Murdock's closet, that's John Marvin, without even knowing, just from visual memory of those pieces of clothing. And I think that's what makes this show stand out so much, is that serious research that you did? So I just want to say great job.

[Joseph Lacourt]

Oh, thank you very much. I appreciate that.

[Mandy Matney]

Some costume elements go beyond wardrobe and become storytelling tools, as, you know, like a cufflink, a tie, a vintage blouse, a jean jacket that hints at a memory or a narrative thread. What. What can you tell us about a particular piece across the episodes that ended up carrying more weight?

[Joseph Lacourt]

You know, a lot of the clothes carried more weight than I anticipated. And I'm not sure if that's because it was so documented or because it's so instantly recognizable, but I remember from my very first fitting with Patricia, when everyone in the room was unsettled looking at these racks of replicas of the clothing that Maggie Murdoch wore. So it'd be eerie to look up at the wall in the fitting room and look at a picture of the real Maggie wearing the clothing, and then turn around and see Patricia standing there in those clothes. It gave you chills, really. And I think with all of the research Patricia personally did on the story, and for Maggie, putting those exact clothes on really helped her embody the character she was playing. And the same can be said for Jason. The first time we tried on the outfit he wore the night of the boat crash, it really, really helped him easily more personify the character of Alec. And, you know, I remember when Liz came on set, Liz Farrell came on set and saw him in that hospital set. She had a physical reaction to seeing him in that outfit. And so that was, like, so powerful. And there are many instances and moments like this where the clothing influenced the actor into becoming the character. You know, whether it was like Gloria's iconic Watermelon Festival T shirt that was so documented, or Paul wearing the exact boxers that were worn the boat crash. But I think the most impactful and the most weighted since we're talking about it, and unsettling for me was the first time I'd ever seen Jason step out of hair and makeup wearing the clothes Alec wore the night of the murder. And then watching him perform the 911 call, getting choked up about it, just thinking about it. It's really so powerful what clothing can actually do just about the research part of it. Just that one outfit alone, the murder night outfit of Alex. It took a couple of weeks of looking at grainy photos and dark video footage and dash cam footage in courtroom evidence photos to sit down and figure out what really this T shirt and these shorts and this sneaker was.

[Mandy Matney]

How did you ensure each scene, be it a courtroom, a family dinner, or a public event, felt authentic through your design choices for a broader cast?

[Joseph Lacourt]

Well, I worked with a huge trove of photos and video footage of many of the events in our series. So I was familiar with the way each person should look, which was. Made my job both harder and easier. Easier because I had a template to go by. Harder because I was faced with the enormous task of recreating these scenes with authenticity and verisimilitude. For example, the Watermelon Festival. The Watermelon Festival had hundreds of extras and, you know, the challenge of getting every detail right. Whether it was the iconic Watermelon Festival T shirts or the local beauty queens or the local high school small town band, it was finding all of these small towns moments of visual interest without glorifying it too much. And, you know, the same can be said for scenes like Alex's trial and Gloria's funeral, where the background become a much more integral part of painting a more realistic picture.

[Mandy Matney]

Yeah, I was there for the Watermelon Festival day.

[Joseph Lacourt]

Yes.

[Mandy Matney]

And saw the whole process, and it was deeply, deeply impressive. Everybody, everybody was in beautiful green and red and some pinks. I put some pinks in there, and it was just great. But you can tell you went the extra mile for, like, what does it actually feel like? Yeah, costume design does not happen in a vacuum. What was your process working with Michael Fuller, Aaron Lee Carr, the directors and production design to ensure that costumes enhance the cinematic and narrative tone for each episode?

[Joseph Lacourt]

Well, it is a huge collaborative process, as you know now between departments and people. And you especially, you know, the show was made 1 million times better with the fact that you were involved in it. And you brought so much important facts and knowledge to the project, which really honestly helped my job immensely. I remember the first time I spoke with Michael Fuller about how he wanted to tell the story. And, you know, he just wanted to make sure we conveyed an authenticity and a hyperrealism to the show. And so many of the events in our show are visually documented. So we leaned into that as a guide. And then you have the directors who come in, and they each have their own nuances and ideas on how they want to tell their section of the story. And then you have the actor input, which is vital for them to feel comfortable in their clothing so they can portray the character. And then you have the production designer who is in charge of building all the sets for the show and making sure that the sets and the clothing are telling the exact same story. And also making sure that the walls or the couch and the clothing isn't all the same color. So you have a floating head on screen. And then, of course, you have the art department, which did the logos and graphics and the patches for all 17 of our local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies and rescue agencies that were in our show. And then I guess the closest collaboration I had was with Katie Ballard, the head of the hair department, and Addison Foreman, who was the head of the makeup department, to make sure that we had a. Or we were able to produce a cohesion that really told the most truthful and authentic version of each character. And I would have to say, too, you know, I would not be sitting here across from you without my incredible costume department, who were my daily collaborators. I mean, this group of artisans went above and beyond every single day to make sure the vision got to the screen. And so I'm so grateful to them, you know, and what's so funny, too, you know, just a sidebar, is that, you know, for instance, Miley on the boat, that was the longest. Her shirt was the longest thing for me to discover. And when I finally did it was finding, you know, six of them. And we couldn't find them. We could only find, like, two smalls and two larges and three extra larges. And so, you know, behind the scenes, the audience doesn't know is that these people are wearing sometimes different sizes. We do cut them down, you know, but, you know, when you have no time and the stunt's one size and the real actor's another size, it's a trick of the eye you don't really get.

[Mandy Matney]

But yeah, that was another one. I had an emotional reaction seeing her in the hospital because I've seen that sweater in so many videos. It looked exactly like the videos.

[Joseph Lacourt]

And my point to Michael and Aaron about the clothing and how necessary it was is if I just got some sort of regular mustard colored sweater and put her in, you wouldn't have had that reaction.

[Mandy Matney]

Right. She transformed into Miley.

[Joseph Lacourt]

Exactly. When I saw that, yeah, that was probably the one thing I heard mostly in the fitting room is once the people who are portraying real life people got dressed in the clothing, they're like, oh, I understand the character now. Oh, I get it. So, you know, and that combined with the hair and incredible hair and makeup, we did our job.

[Mandy Matney]

Did it. Well, Joseph, this has been awesome. Thank you. I have so much respect for your talent and your investigative skills.

[Joseph Lacourt]

Oh, thank you. It is an honor to be here. And I think I said this to you once, but I think it bears repeating to the listening audience, is that Mandy Matney is to many people a hero. Breaking the story the way you did saved so many people's lives. And so you should feel really honored and know that so many people love you and support you and are thankful for you.

[Mandy Matney]

Now I'm gonna cry. And thank you.

[David Moses]

I've thought a lot about how much Kat Candler and Joseph lacourt contributed to the success of this series. Both of them have changed the way I experience television series and movies. Movies. I find myself paying more attention to the little details, knowing that each member of a show's crew are telling a story through their expertise. The attention to detail in this series demonstrates the care and duty filmmakers felt getting the story straight. So the gravity of these events conveys on screen. It is a cautionary tale inspired by true events that hopefully prevents future tragedies. And next week we'll sit down with the incredible actor Jason Clark, the man who became Alec Murdoc from Inside Out. We hope that you're enjoying the original series Murdoch Death in the Family. And don't forget to like, share, subscribe and leave a comment or five star rating to give our creators, cast and crew the praise that they deserve. And don't miss Murdoch Death in the Family now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney. The Murdoch Death in the Family official podcast is a Lunar Shark and USG Audio production. Executive producers include Mandy Matney, Liz Farrell, David Moses for Luna Shark and Josh Block for USG Audio. Sound design and audio engineering by Jamie Hoffman Hoffman, Mike Bader and Grace Hills. Production support for USG Audio by Josh Lalonghi. Special thanks to Kate Thomas, Beth Braden, Ginny Adams and Sam Berlin. To learn more about this story and others, visit lunasharkmedia.

[Mandy Matney]

Com.