← Murdaugh: Death in the Family Official Podcast
Murdaugh: Death in the Family Official Podcast
Jason Clarke on the Monster in Alex Murdaugh & The Man Behind The Glass
01:11:54
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- [00:01]
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- [00:31]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Get ready for way day.
- [00:33]
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- [01:02]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
Welcome back to the Murdoch Death in the Family official podcast. Today I'm so happy to be talking with actor Jason Clark, whose portrayal of Elec Murdock was so convincing and authentic that when the trailer for the series dropped in September, even former friends of Elek were getting goosebumps. When I started the Murdoch Murders podcast In June of 2021, my very first episode title was South Carolina's Chappaquiddick, a reference to the 2017 feature film Chappaquiddick, in which Jason Clark portrays Ted Kennedy. When I heard that Jason had agreed to portray Alec Murdock, it felt like one of those full circle, meant to be moments. Still, I wasn't prepared for how completely he would embody the role from the first scene to the very last. Jason Clarke gave us such an extraordinary performance as Eck Murdock, it almost makes you want a sequel called Life in Prison. Could you imagine? Actually, after we got Ellic's jailhouse phone calls in February 2022 through a Freedom of Information act request and listening to hours of Elec talking, I can imagine vividly like this January 4, 2022, phone call with Buster six months before he was charged in Maggie and Paul's murders.
- [02:22]
Ellic Murdoch's Son (Buster)
See, there's a guy who doesn't get canteen, and canteen is the commerce. I know what it is, you know, I mean, it's. It's the commerce, it's the trade. And it really helped me last week when she put it on that Lucas's account. I want her to do that one more time.
- [02:42]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
Okay.
- [02:42]
Ellic Murdoch's Son (Buster)
It's just outside looking in. Looks a little weird. What do you mean it just looks a little weird? I mean, I get what you're saying, but, I mean, I may deal with somebody, I give them $15. See, I can only do $60 on my account. I understand. I'm just saying. And I'm not saying you are. Man, I just really hope you're not.
- [03:04]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
In there doing anything you shouldn't be doing.
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Ellic Murdoch's Son (Buster)
Oh, no, I'm not doing anything. I promise you that's not the case.
- [03:11]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
It might be hard to believe, but there was a time when that call felt like vindication. Even after Ellic had been arrested for the Satterfield thefts in October 2021, and after all of those thefts became very clear, Ellick and his supporters still seem to see this as a temporary hiccup. It still seemed possible that Ellick could walk away from all of this with a few scrapes in a collection of jail stories to tell at parties. But we believe that the thefts and even the murders, which he hadn't been charged for yet, weren't just something Ellic did. They were a part of who he was. Hearing his own son acknowledge this on a call, one they couldn't imagine would be released to the public, verified to us that Ellic was the type of person who needed to know the rules so that he could break them. Jason Clark captured that spirit in Ellic. He not only sought the high from alcohol and drugs, but he was also addicted to using his name to get away with things that other people would face consequences for. The opening scene from episode eight is a flashback to fall 2019, with Jason Clark as Ellick and Will Harrison as Buster at the driving range, where Ellick shares a bit of Murdoch wisdom.
- [04:29]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Oh, straight down the middle, Bo. Look at it go. Where the fuck is that brother of yours with those beers? It's hotter than a devil's ass crack out here. He's probably taking shots with the cart guy. The hell's law school going? It's good. I'm slogging through this essay on the ethics of truth and the professional law for my. Oh, whoa. Fuck all. It's my first big assignment. It's like 30 pages. I'm just definitely into you. You know, your great granddaddy Buster had a saying about the truth. What's that? There's what's true, what's not, and a whole bunch of in between. But the only real truth in this world is what you can get others to believe. I don't think I can put that in my essay. No, you can't. But I'LL be damned if it doesn't serve me well over the years.
- [05:24]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
Now, let's talk to the Jason Clark.
- [05:28]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Jason Clark. This is so amazing. And I have to start by telling you that I saw you so many times on set and I was terrified to speak with because you had. You embodied E.C. murdoch in a terrifying way, and that's a good thing. So actually, you kind of, like, made me. I've seen the real E.C. murdock in real life, and you were more intimidating, I think, than he was. And you were always just so much in character that I never wanted to bother you. I was, wow, that guy is really, really dedicated to the role.
- [06:01]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
So, first of all, we never actually met.
- [06:03]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
We never met.
- [06:03]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
Cause.
- [06:04]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
No, I never approached you.
- [06:05]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
No, I know.
- [06:06]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
So I was like, no, he is in full Alex Murdock mode. And who knows?
- [06:11]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
It's funny you say that. That's interesting that you say that you feel more intimidated by him than me. I mean, that's hindsight, isn't it? Yeah, it's kind of. I think that lies at the heart of this whole thing that is that hindsight's a benefit.
- [06:21]
Podcast Host Liz Farrell
Yeah.
- [06:21]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Oh, absolutely.
- [06:22]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
And you can't, you know, and I think drama gets behind or puts you back in front of the hindsight, so. Because, yeah, he was obviously not, you know, he was a very happy, magnanimous, upstanding, you know, thing of the community who'd been there for a long, long time and whose wife and son never saw it coming. Not that anybody see it coming.
- [06:40]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
No.
- [06:41]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
That's the level of the betrayal.
- [06:42]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Absolutely.
- [06:43]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
I guess, as you, I'm sure, you know.
- [06:45]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Yeah. I mean, I just remember seeing him for the first time in Paul Murdoch's boat crash hearing in 2019, and he was like the life of the party in a courtroom. It was a very strange thing. Shaking hand.
- [07:00]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
I may be behind the scenes, I was intimidating a movie, but on set, I tried to be the life of the party.
- [07:04]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
You were, too.
- [07:05]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Yeah. But you did a really good job of transitioning between, like, the monster that he was, and you captured the intensity. So my first question is, obviously, you transformed into Alec Murdock in such a visceral and thorough way, and it has had everyone in complete shock. My phone is blowing up again today with people who knew Alec Murdock. I live in South Carolina, so I have a lot of friends who knew him very, very well.
- [07:34]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
And they're like, oh, my God.
- [07:36]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Because they're seeing it now, aren't they?
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Podcast Host Brittany Snow
They're seeing him for the first time. And, yes, so again, good job.
- [07:43]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Thank you.
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Podcast Host Brittany Snow
What was it like the first time that you transformed and saw yourself in the mirror?
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Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
You know, it's. I mean, that's always a very important time whenever you play anybody, you know, I mean, you're kind of like you. It's like a. For me, it's like a yacht race. You know, when you see them crisscrossing and all that waiting for the start. You're preparing, you're moving, you're, you're whatever, but you're looking at, to get ready to go, which is first down, set. Because it's, you know, you gotta cross that line, you gotta hit that line running. So it's, it's always, you know, you, you feel. I can feel myself getting around it, getting close to it. You know, there's the hair and the makeup. Everyone's starting to, you know, contribute their jobs. The wardrobe, they're putting on top of everything that you've done. You know, at that point, the weight was really coming on. For me, you know, it is, it takes a lot to destroy your metabolism, essentially, so that your body's not processing much and you're just adding and adding and adding. And so it was, it was piling on and my body was, you know, I was starting to feel the effects of that. And, and then the, you know, the wig was on, was super. There was a lot of uncomfortable, you know, it was. I'm just trying to say that, you know, because I do remember walking in and looking. I remember, I can literally remember walking and looking at the full length mirror going, damn, you know, this is, this is my next six months, you know, and, you know, yeah, I, you know, I take a couple of snaps and I send a couple of snaps off to a couple of key people that I trust and I just go, you know, thoughts, you know, can you see, you know, anything standing out as wrong or anything that. Because they don't know. I mean, a lot of people just don't know. 100 or is there anything that just looks stupid or silly here or doesn't real? Because, you know, when we decide to go without prosthetics, it had to be. This is my Alec, you know, and there's no delaying the start. We're on. So this is it. And so it's got to sit, you know, and Kate and Addison, hair and makeup were just, you know, they had that level of, I mean, I'm a pretty pedantic lunatic when it comes to, you know, I won't let go or something.
- [09:31]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Yeah.
- [09:31]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
But Kate and Addison are Pretty close behind and sometimes ahead of me in terms of they won't let me leave the chair, you know what I mean? And, you know, and you build it together and that's how it comes. And then you find yourself going, okay, well, wow.
- [09:44]
Jim Griffin (Defense Attorney, portrayed by Spencer Garrett)
Yeah.
- [09:45]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
This is six months, tracksuit pants and red eyebrows and probably staying at home, you know, how's my wife gonna love me?
- [09:51]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
Yeah.
- [09:53]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
What was the diet like? I have to ask follow up questions about that. Cause I'm so interested. I know a lot of people like to say, like, that would be really nice to gain weight, but I'm sure it would be really, really difficult.
- [10:04]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
It's really hard.
- [10:05]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
Yeah.
- [10:05]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
It comes on light. Like you gotta destroy your metabolism, you know, and so you start having to, you know, I tried to do it as healthy as I could with good foods and a lot of them big pastas and bread and cereals and this, you know, and then you think, oh, my God, it's not coming on. No, but literally you're going on my. You know, I'm not, I'm only, I'm eking up so slowly. So then it's just like, man, I'm.
- [10:22]
Spencer Garrett (Actor portraying Jim Griffin)
Going to go out and get a.
- [10:23]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Couple of tubs of ice cream and then you. And then eventually my number's about two weeks. It's two weeks for. And even two weeks to come off before I'll see the results of, you know, that two weeks worth of working or fasting or eating. And then it just, once it came on, it kept coming on. And then you have, you know, blood pressure issues. You have, you know, swollen leg issue. Remember one day my wife said, look at your legs, Jason. You're retaining water. So. Because the suit was, you know, I also had the suit on to give the extra, you know, I mean, he was heavy. He was 265. He says that in the thing, you know. You know, big man, you know, and. Yeah, and so big man, you know, it's. You just, you know, you're having to force yourself and people don't understand. I remember when I arrived at set, we had such short breaks. We only had a half an hour break for five months. You know, for lunch, you know, I had to have my food, you know, so it took a while for people to understand. It's like, I don't need to get here and my breakfast isn't here. You gotta understand, I've got to eat it now and it's gotta be here and it's. I've gotta chow it down or I'm gonna lose it. Because, you know, I was burning a lot of energy on set.
- [11:20]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Yeah.
- [11:21]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
You know, a lot of energy. So it was like I had to. I had to keep doubling down, you know, and then, you know, then there was that last bit of, like, we worked out. I want to take a stab at the. At the prison trial. I love. I really loved. It's a funny word, but this is, you know, I'm talking from an actor's point of view. I loved that he looks stronger at the end, clearer, sharper, but I see more vulnerable, too, you know, his mind. And he's. He wasn't. He wasn't the good lawyer that he was, or he thought he was. He was nervous. It was on the line, and he hadn't done it for a while, I guess, you know, and there was, you know, it was personal. It was him now rather than somebody else. So. But just to get to that point, it wasn't just bigger clothes sitting on me. You could see, you know, thing had come off, that he'd been through this thing, and he actually looked fitter and healthier. And even now in prison, you see him and he looks like. You see the quarterback or you see the. Yeah, the quarterback from back in the day. And so we picked a date because the dates were always moving and what was going on in the production. But at a certain point, I thought, you know, it's going to take me two weeks. So I gave an extra week. There's a little bit of crossover. There's a one scene or two scenes where I thought, oh, man, you can see it there already. But, you know, to go. I stopped eating. So it was a. You know, the food intake in and out was like, you know. And then I dropped about 4 or 5 kilograms.
- [12:25]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
Wow.
- [12:26]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Which is 15 pounds, 18 pounds, I guess, you know, for that last. Pretty much the whole last episode.
- [12:31]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Yeah.
- [12:31]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
So the food was always an issue with me. And it was. You know, it put a lot of pressure on my body, in my. My heart and stuff like that. It's not something I'd do lightly again.
- [12:41]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Right. But I think that that also added to the character and who he was so much. Like, I know for a fact he ate. That man ate so much sugar, he would drink, like, strawberry milk and chocolate milk like a child.
- [12:55]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
And you see those scenes and I'm chowing down.
- [12:57]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Yeah, you're always eating and understood that.
- [12:59]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
You better have it ready to go.
- [13:00]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
I love all the eating scenes.
- [13:02]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
There's a couple of just little lies. I couldn't eat my chicken. You know what I'm saying, you know what I mean? I was getting up at the table, man can't even finish his fucking chicken. You know what's going on.
- [13:10]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
And always a messy eater, too. I liked that about. And the Capri Suns. I know people are already really focused. Like, he really had a diet of, like, a child. And it was also so funny. I remember listening to his jailhouse phone calls when he was in jail for a few months at this point, and he was telling a family member that he exercised for the first time in, like, 30 years.
- [13:33]
Ellic Murdoch's Son (Buster)
I've been doing these mountain climbing things he told me about. I've been doing a lot of them. What does that do? What is that specifically for your stomach, your shoulders, your arms? Yeah, I do both of them. Your burpees are what I call up downs.
- [13:47]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
And he was so like, I actually feel better now.
- [13:51]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
That's amazing.
- [13:52]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Exercise is amazing. And, like, maybe I should have done this a long time ago. And I'm like, yeah, buddy, maybe you.
- [13:58]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Should try it again.
- [14:00]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
Yeah, right? Hindsight.
- [14:01]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
But that's what he did in prison. He loved burpees. He did a lot of those.
- [14:06]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Buster Murdoch takes the stand, but does little to counter the state's GPS and cell phone evidence. Well, you testifying as dumber than dirt, Alec? Y' all got any other cards you want to play, Dick? I'm all ears now. God bless Buster boy, but there's only so much he can do. I mean, this is. This is slipping away, boys.
- [14:22]
Spencer Garrett (Actor portraying Jim Griffin)
It's our expert's turn now, Alec.
- [14:24]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Oh, yeah, Jim. Hey, they got anything that can counter the phone data and the gps? Horseshit. Oh, no, I didn't think so. Now, I didn't do this, all right? You know it.
- [14:34]
Spencer Garrett (Actor portraying Jim Griffin)
I know it.
- [14:34]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
But the only way that jury's gonna know it, Dick, is if they hear it straight from me. All this jury has heard this whole trial is how much you have lied to everybody, about everything.
- [14:43]
Rob Morrow (Actor portraying Creighton Waters)
To your clients, law enforcement, to your friends and family. Your credibility is in the goddamn septic tank at this point.
- [14:50]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Then I own the lies. Yeah, I don't run from them, Dick. I run straight to them.
- [14:55]
Spencer Garrett (Actor portraying Jim Griffin)
I strongly advise you against doing this.
- [14:58]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
You know who the fuck I am, Bo?
- [15:00]
Rob Morrow (Actor portraying Creighton Waters)
No.
- [15:00]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Do you know who my fucking family is? Then you got some idea how much time I spent in this courtroom as a kid upstairs at the state's table while my daddy and my granddaddy put away murderers, rapists, and nerdy wells aplenty. Now, you got your crime scene expert, you got your weapons expert. You're fine. You have the fuck at it. But if they want to try me for something this God awful of my family's turf, fuck no, boy. Okay? Not without going through me first. Now you put me on that fucking stand.
- [15:29]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
So was there something specific for you, like the way that Alec moved, spoke or carried himself that helped you lock into the character?
- [15:38]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
There are a lot of things. Yeah, you know, there were. I broke it down and I listened to him a long time before I.
- [15:43]
Spencer Garrett (Actor portraying Jim Griffin)
Started looking at him.
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Podcast Host Mandy Matney
Okay.
- [15:44]
Jim Griffin (Defense Attorney, portrayed by Spencer Garrett)
Just.
- [15:44]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Cause I, you know, that taking the stand, you know, and trying to get in charge of his own defense, it was just really interesting in the way he went about it and the way that whole thing played out. And so I listened to it a lot, just to feel and it was like you could feel his shoulders were just up particularly. There's different stages when he was. When he was really on it and, you know, bloated and probably constipated and, you know, just literally, you know what I mean? Just like full and you know, his voice was high. You'd hear the difference in his voice because there was a. I got a cold of. There was a commercial that he filmed for a video company for trial lawyers, you know, where he talks about, you know, you know, I can't tell you how many times, you know, be able to show a jury that until, you know, it gets up there tight. You know, it's just, you know, I'm not well out of practice here now.
- [16:29]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
You're so good. That was so good.
- [16:32]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
And you take it to grotesque levels. Like, you know, I got. I'm so constipated. It's coming out of my nose right now. I mean, to be able to show you that and tell you that, you know, it's just, you know, the benefits are just indescribable, you know, and he's talking about videoing, you know, the footage people.
- [16:47]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
He was taking advantage of the accident.
- [16:49]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Yeah. And so, you know, he's well round and you know, and then when he got into the. When he got into the trial, you know, which is most of the audio for him, you know, you can see he's changed and his registers come down and different things like that he's settling back into.
- [17:03]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
I also think that he wanted people to feel sorry for him. I think that he was smart enough.
- [17:08]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
There's all of that, you know, there's all of those psychological things that are going on and you, you understand that better when you hear it rather than see it. You know what I mean?
- [17:16]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Yeah, you're right.
- [17:17]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
You really do you start to. You start to just take away everything and strip it back and look at his mind and there's.
- [17:22]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
Yeah.
- [17:22]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
You know, and then also the feeling. So it's like, you know, you know, the times when he was interviewed, those three interviews, you know, that were videoed, I mean, when you're in that many sedatives, it's hard to be emotional. It's hard to find emotional. So it's like there's a lot of criticism about. He's not even crying, he's not even upset, but it's like the dude's fucking on painkillers, man. Do you know what I mean? He's having trouble feeling. You can punch him in there and he won't feel anything now. So there's that disconnect and then that. Because, you know, you brought up these relationship to emotion and empathy and trying to gain empathy. It's like it was always a bit disconnected behind it or in front of it or trying to get ahead of it. You know, he had a strange relationship with, you know, his emotions because his, his. His whole body for so long had just been messed up and sugar, sugar, sugar, pills, pills, pills, you know, drink, drink, drink, food, food, food. And, you know, particular. The trial, it's all starting to go away again. But, you know, he had. There's a lot of, you know, this is the way when you're carrying that weight, when you lean on the glasses, the neck thing, you know, the just, you know, the gun stuff, you know, he's a. He's a particular video of him, the way he's got his hands, you know, with the. With the tree. You know what I mean?
- [18:28]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Yeah.
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Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
You know, he's holding up that fucking tree and scratching in a certain way. You know, it's just little things. And you find yourself odd, you know, because you just find yourself repeating certain gestures and then from those, you know, repeat those gestures 50, 100 times and you start to feel similar things come around. Whatever's in the way that he does those key things, you know.
- [18:46]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
From the beginning, I wanted to make it clear to our listeners that Alec Murdoch was a different kind of criminal. For more than a dozen years, he admittedly stole from clients and his law firm while clapping his victims on the back and successfully convincing them that he was on their side. I talked to Jason about what this was like for him to put himself in the mind, inside his version of Alec Murdoch.
- [19:12]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
That's gotta be a scary place, though, to like, put yourself in the mind and mannerisms of Alec Murdoch for, I guess so.
- [19:20]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
But once again, you know, I can see that's hindsight, you know, because at the time, he's just having a good time. You know what I mean? He's just living large. And other people's money.
- [19:27]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Yeah.
- [19:28]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
You know, he's. He's got problems, and he's got his issues, but this has been going on for years. I mean, he'd been taking money.
- [19:32]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Yeah.
- [19:33]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
And backpedaling his pyramid scheme, or whatever. Whatever he wants to call it, for a long time. You know, it was as similar as putting on a pair of shoes. That was. That was the way the world spun.
- [19:42]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Yeah.
- [19:43]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
And then, you know, he just found himself going further down, you know, that dungeon to being capable of completely different things. I think, you know, there's a number of things that I love, you know, that struck me. That's just like. A lot of it happened in real time, like the lie of being at the kennels. I mean, it happened right then and there in the. In the courtroom. It was like, you know, and then, you know, because you're working towards what he did, but, like, you know, there's a simplicity to it as well and a clarity in just. Oh, man, I need. Turn left today. You know what I mean? But at the same point, he managed to get rid of the weapons.
- [20:14]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
Yeah.
- [20:15]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
You know, I mean, in some kind of bizarre way, it's a RICO they got him on, but it had to be there. And if it wasn't you, it was somebody else with you because you were there.
- [20:22]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Right. And then you can't get out of that, I guess.
- [20:24]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
And it leaves a strange sense of it's not 100% or something. You know what I mean? I don't know if this is the right thing. I mean, you know, we used to joke with Michael, you know, the. This chicken says he did was literally. I just. I used to wind Michael up, you know, and the little ways of getting. And finding a character, because, you know, I know I have these monster days coming in, and I'd just fire off some jokes. I said, bo, I didn't do it, man. We need to rethink eight, you know, and he'd sent me back this picture that was of the. It was from the crime scene of the.
- [20:52]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
The guinea.
- [20:52]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
The guinea. The guinea. It's a guinea. It's a chicken. And I'd say, bo, I didn't do it, man. And he'd say that this chicken says you did. Damn, I thought I did that chicken in. I knew I forgot something, you know, And I don't mean to say that, to be disrespectful, you kind of like, once again, it's like our license and the reason we're doing it is to take away the benefit of hindsight. Yeah, you know, it really is.
- [21:15]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
Yeah.
- [21:16]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
This is. It's not a tragedy until it is.
- [21:18]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Yeah.
- [21:18]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
And I think, first of all, Alex.
- [21:20]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Murdock is a ridiculous person. And he's a very interesting character. Very interesting. Like, you can't. Hollywood could never have made up someone so absurd. He's an absurd person.
- [21:33]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
He's a wonder. I mean, I love that absurdity. I mean, I used to listen to ridiculous songs.
- [21:36]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
It's fascinating.
- [21:37]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
And dance just to get into, like, you know what, man? Anything's gonna be possible. I'm coming in here in this room, and anything is possible.
- [21:44]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
I was gonna ask about the dance in episode three. I have studied a lot of Alec Murdock in the last almost seven years and never thought about him dancing until I saw that sit and haven't seen any videos of him dancing. Probably fort. How did you get into the groove for those dance moves and think about.
- [22:03]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Well, you know, it's coming. Obviously, you know, I want to entertain my wife now, but literally, you know what I mean? I do. I want to. Same reason he gives you the diamond bracelet. Because, you know, I've done this and I've done that, and I want to get back into her thing. I'm going to. Humor's always a great one. And he was always, you know, the life of the party. The picture. I remember seeing him on a boat and he's doing a shot or shotting a beer cam with one of his son's, you know, young girlfriends or friends in a bikini. You just go, this dude's, you know, it's a very, you know, it's a particular thing as well as an Australian, you see it spring break, teachers college years, you know, you know, nobody wakes up feeling like they're 50 something, you know, Most old people say, I still feel like I'm. I still feel like, you know what I mean? Life goes fast. And this life thing went fast for this man, you know, and all of a sudden, he found himself in a different place where he never thought he'd be, you know, so that picture, anyway, said a lot of things to me. And then, you know, so I used to listen to. I mean, you know, DJ Khaled. All I do is win. I mean, you know what I mean? Some bad bunnies, some, you know, some. Some J. Balvin, you know, and I would. I just. Because you know, I'm putting on this suit and this wig which was so tight and these lenses and, you know, and I just have to bust it out and get into a position where I was not gonna be boring. I might be moody, I might be angry, I might be violent, I might be having sex. I might be whatever. I mean, I always, you know, I looked at him as like a great white shark. You know, it's always moving. It's fascinating to watch too, and it's dangerous. And if it stops moving, it'll die. Because the thing we're always working towards. I know the show's working towards, but I'm working towards it. He didn't give up. He's in jail, like you said, punching out burpees. Do you know what I mean? There's something, whatever you want to say. The dude's got the constitution of an ox.
- [23:43]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
And we'll be right back.
- [23:50]
Podcast Host Liz Farrell
So good, so good, so good.
- [23:53]
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Podcast Host Liz Farrell
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- [24:53]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
I actually think that he was happier in prison because I think that he was able to be his entire criminal self. I think he's completely fine in prison. I think he's able to. I think he's probably wheeling and I know he's gambling in prison. He talks about that on a lot.
- [25:09]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
I'm sure he's got problems too. I'm sure there's people who are after.
- [25:11]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Him too, but he's got protection too. I mean, he's able to hustle. I will say, like he's able to. Like even in prison. He is a guy that's going to find people to protect him and figure that out.
- [25:24]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
And a lot of them do. I Met some old criminals with Michael Mann years ago, and they miss it. The camaraderie, the conversation, you know, the simplicity, the game. Yeah. And they get out and they do something wrong and they go straight back in.
- [25:35]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think he's getting comfortable.
- [25:37]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Redemption was all about that, wasn't it?
- [25:39]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Yeah, that's true. Take me back to when you first learned that you were playing Alec Murdoch. Like, what were you thinking? And how did you. And did you say, like, can I look like that guy?
- [25:50]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Yeah, of course you do.
- [25:51]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
Yeah.
- [25:51]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
You know, I mean, because it's like, it's gonna look pretty stupid if I don't get there, isn't it? You know what I mean? I'm gonna let a lot of people down. I'm gonna be. You know, so you gotta consider if you can do it. And then you've got to consider there's gonna be some hard conversations about, you know, what kind of support am I going to get that. What kind of production are we making here?
- [26:07]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Right?
- [26:08]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
You know, what are we shooting for?
- [26:10]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Right?
- [26:10]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Because, I mean, here's the fact. What do you want? We're gonna. He's the fascinating character in this. There's this. You know, that's what it is. So, yeah, it was. You know, this is not just, hey, great, you got a job, you know, blah, blah, blah. But it was like, there's the cold, hard reality of you going to be able to do this, Jason, and are we going to do this with prosthetics? And if not with prosthetics, can you, you know, 265. He was redhead from South Carolina, you know, and then you start putting it together, and at a certain point, I guess, yeah, I do want to do this. You know, I didn't get all the scripts to begin with because I was never interested in, like, you know, the darkness, the anger, the violence. I mean, that comes and it's there. You know, we know where this goes. The Titanic sinks, You know, he comes around the corner with the blue thing on and racks, you know, and so you go, you know, it was interesting. The son didn't see it coming, or he wouldn't be there, or he would have gone and checked. So I'm not going to turn Paul into an idiot or Mark Tinsley into, You know, those people that were just so blind, they don't see this. Because once again, it upsets me when people say, talk in hindsight, about he's this and he's that and he's that, well, great. Cool, man. You see it all really really? That's the. You know, you don't think there's anything in your life that's getting past you, right? And it is, you know, it's. It's human.
- [27:21]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Yeah.
- [27:21]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
So it was like, I was very. Then, you know, you start combing through the script. It's like, why. You know, you know, the anger. We're not in a rush to get to this. You know what I mean? This is not, you know, nobody's running away. Nobody. You know, Paul's still living at home. They're doing their things. There's a lot of. There's a lot of things. It's about showing this family and then how this developed. I mean, because we're still coming back to the basic. Which is, how did a man get to that? That's what makes, you know, Macbeth interesting. You know, ambition. That is. That's what makes King Lear interesting. How does Lear start off with the daughters and everything and end up with nothing and this. He ended up with nothing apart from his own, you know, and good luck to him. So that was the things that were interested into me. That, that. That you start combing through and you. You end up, you know, getting there with Michael and the writers and fighting for and over and to clean out and go, okay. It's like. Like the man, this show has to be watchable. You know what I mean? Like, I love episode three. There are a few things we fought over to, I think, to tone down. And I think I was, you know, writing a number of things, but it has to be entertaining. Sure enough, man, you put me there, and I'll give him the alcohol and the frog and pour it and find that hilarious. And in that, you've got the reflection of, like. And this is fucked up. You know what I mean? It's done the fucked up business. I think this is normal, man. Come on, let's just get some. You know? You know what I mean? Forget you, you know, and then. And then it's leading it, and you start to see what leads to it. Dude, you can't even be happy. I mean, I'm throwing it on for you. And I'm doing all things because you've now seen me with. With the Luna and her husband and taking their money and doing. You've seen that stuff. It's not done with, like, come here and you give me your money, you know? You know, it's. It's. It's. It's done with, you know, with a. With a velvet glove and a normality, which is what makes this story frightening.
- [29:04]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Right. Well. And I think that a lot of people refuse to believe that Alec Murdoch did this because it is one of the most terrifying things when you take a person that does not appear to.
- [29:18]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Be a monster, subhuman to come around the corner. I mean, you know, for Buster, for whatever, you know, it's like, I've never heard somebody say he didn't do it, you know, And I ask lucky you. I mean, I guess so, you know, because it, you know, well, anybody that you'd bother listening to, because it's like he was there. Fact. So there's only two. There's only one other thing that exists. So if maybe he didn't, there was somebody else that there, and he just helped, you know, but that's the same as. So, yeah, he's there. Yeah, the chicken says he did it. And there's no avoiding, you know, that. And then he's doing, you know, two life sentences. So.
- [29:52]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Yeah, absolutely. So Ellic was also addicted to opioids, and that's a big storyline, and that's in a big part of, I believe, why he exploded the way that he did. The more that life unraveled, the more he turned to pain medication. How did you go about integrating that dimension to his character?
- [30:13]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
I swallowed some dry flower things all the time, you know what I mean? Trying to get it down with whatever I had. It's really interesting because I listened to a number of different things that really talked about all the drugs. And I go, yeah, man, he was pop. What have you. What are you looking at? He was putting down a lot. And then there's the relevance of it. It's just like the sugar, the booze, the things. It's whatever, man. It's just. It's just, you know, you know, my headache, you know, I'm not gonna put out an adult. I don't, you know, I'm. Some of the. I don't want any issues, you know what I mean? And when you're carrying that much and feeling that way, whatever it is, you get up. And then, of course, when they're not there, it's just like. You got any idea how much money and effort I've had to do that? Where the. Are they? You know, there's that element. There's a couple of great scenes. You know, that scene with Patricia and I where I'm down there looking and she comes in, you know, because once again, it's like, you know, he's. Like, you said, it's like he's died. He's a. You know, he's a naughty boy, you know, looking for his, you know, except that it's got the ability to take a major, you know, big turn to the right there and go south, you know, and that was the thing with him.
- [31:17]
Jim Griffin (Defense Attorney, portrayed by Spencer Garrett)
You.
- [31:18]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
You had to. I can imagine, you know, from what stuff, you know, that I heard on your show and on things that I read and all that, you know, you. He brought you in, made familiar, but, you know, just don't get too familiar. So with the drugs, it was, you know, I wouldn't hang my hat on it, you know, I wouldn't. That's not the reason. That doesn't explain to me why a man comes around the corner in the blue and does what he did, you know, And I don't. And I didn't want to, you know, disregard it. So it's not there. But also in the show, but also make it the everything because, you know, it's that pyramid. He made a choice, right?
- [31:54]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
Absolutely. Yeah, he really did. Horrible.
- [31:57]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
The worst.
- [31:57]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
It's unfathomable except that I think in dramatizing it and showing it in a proper way, you can come across some kind of emotional human understanding of, you know what I mean? We have a. I always, I looked at it, you know, this is your pyramid. This is what's important. Whether it's, you know, family, God help, you know, you know, whatever. You know, these things you have at basketball teams, use them. We all have them. You know, exercise is important to me in the morning, whatever, or coffee or this. And all of a sudden his pyramid got pear shaped, you know what I mean? And whatever it was, you know, I mean, there's a lot of things. The death of his father and I was, you know, I was just constantly looking for ways to justify my behavior. He said a couple of things in the trial that really stuck with me once I listened to it 150 times or whatever it was, you know, and one was justification. It was actually, I kept it as a. I have a bunch of audio files. I break them down to different things that I felt like I needed to go over to warm myself up for his accent, to get myself back into his thinking, to prepare myself for a different scene. So one was justification. And he's talking about. He's talking about. So, you know, one of my part, you know, ask one of my partners how much this case word, they say $200,000, you know, and I go out and I get him, you know, $600,000 and he doesn't finish it, right. It's like you do the math he's doing that. He's doing the math up to a certain point, but it's the same thing. He won't admit it, he won't confess, he won't fucking. He still won't own up, no matter what. Who ate that last Capri Sun? I don't know. Who passed wind? I don't know. There's just, I mean, on basic levels, on bigger levels, and even in the effing trial, you know, I'm going to explain to you how I managed to rip off these people and take their everything when the son's a paraplegic, but I'm actually not going to say it. Why say it when I can infer it? Why infer it when it doesn't need to be said? I mean, the lawyer in the man, the, the, the self serving in the man, the need to survive, to keep swimming is just innate in him. And so that was, that was one of the things. That's why I didn't, you know, to go back to the drugs. I didn't lean into. It was just part of who he was. You know what I mean? It might take away the pain.
- [33:52]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Yeah.
- [33:52]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
It might wipe the memory a bit. You know, Did I really do that? Maybe I didn't do it.
- [33:56]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
You know, I think it was always fuel to the fire.
- [33:58]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Like, I think that it was fueled by any addiction. It just goes on the whole thing.
- [34:02]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
But it wasn't the reason. And I, and also I wanted like to. There's so many addicts that don't make that decision. Like so many people are addicted to drugs that do not murder their wife and son. So he made, like you said, a series of bad other decisions.
- [34:17]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Yeah, yeah. It's the rare duck that doesn't fly south for London. He's that duck.
- [34:21]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Yeah.
- [34:22]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
You know, what he did is that's what we keep reaching into. And I think without having some stab at that, without actually, I mean, you can't, I don't think. I'm not going to sit here and say this is it, because I have no right to. And that doesn't give it across. It's up to all to say, well, you can see there's enough for you to go, well, yeah, he wasn't a monster, he wasn't a lunatic. He wasn't out of his mind. It was a Tuesday night or whatever it was. And this man was brought to this point because of all of that. And you go, well, one in a million maybe would do that, but he's that one in a million. And then there's all this other stuff around it, which I guess AIDS and Abettits, drugs being one of them. Not to say that that's all responsible for it. You can't blame Maggie or Paul or everybody else as much as you can't blame the drugs. You know, that's just another character inside of what brings a dude to, you.
- [35:10]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Know, what do you think about the fact that he was never really held accountable for anything in his life? His parents never really disciplined him. His parents protected him from the police disciplining him. There were several times when the police would be called and his father would get him out of that. Do you think that. That Germany?
- [35:28]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
Yeah.
- [35:28]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
You know, unless something you face as a father, yourself or, you know, a friend or whatever, you've, you know, accountability is. Is healthy, you know, taking your medicine, you know, these ways, these cliches we have of saying it is good for you. You know, you're not going to be the fastest runner in the world if you just raise people you beat. You know, you've got to. You've got to, you know, earn it, and you got to be able to, you know, be responsible for your life or. Yes, it keeps adding up, you know. Yeah. But once again, it doesn't lead to that.
- [35:58]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
In September 2021, Ellick called 911 to report that he had been shot by an unknown white male in a pickup truck while he was on the side of a highway, allegedly changing a flat tire on a car that had run flat tires. Immediately, I was suspicious of the facts that he and his lawyers presented to me. It was yet another sign that Alec Murdoch, who wasn't used to anyone challenging his narratives, had so much more hiding beneath the surface.
- [36:26]
Ellic Murdoch's Son (Buster)
I stopped. I got a flat tire and I stopped, and somebody stopped to help me. And when I turned my back, they tried to shoot me. Oh, okay. Were you shot? Yes, but I mean, I'm okay.
- [36:40]
Podcast Host Liz Farrell
He just landed.
- [36:41]
Ellic Murdoch's Son (Buster)
You shot? Where. Where were you shot at?
- [36:43]
Jim Griffin (Defense Attorney, portrayed by Spencer Garrett)
Huh?
- [36:44]
Ellic Murdoch's Son (Buster)
Did they actually shoot you or they tried to shoot you? They shot me, but. Okay, wait, you need ems? Well, I mean.
- [36:54]
Jim Griffin (Defense Attorney, portrayed by Spencer Garrett)
Yes.
- [36:55]
Ellic Murdoch's Son (Buster)
I can't drive. Okay. And I'm bleeding a lot. Where? Part of your body. I'm not sure. Somewhere on my head.
- [37:08]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
And the roadside shooting is another thing we haven't even talked about. Like, that's another horrible, horrible decision.
- [37:15]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
There was some incredibly smart decisions. It's just some insane decisions. And that's what I wanted, and I wanted to get across that insanity. That fucking Homer Simpson ness, You know? Do you know what I mean? In that Bed thing, where it's like we're going over the bandage. You know how the bandage should look? Cool or whatever? How does it look? Okay. And I said, just put it on as it would be, because this situation is insane. So let's just. Do you know what I mean? You gotta. You gotta. Bo, Man, I gotta. You know, I gotta. I gotta get. You know, I thought if I could get some money for you, you know, it'd make. I mean, it's just like. What do you. I mean, I don't. Don't look at me, man. I don't know what's going on here. You know, it was just. There was something absurd, which you just. Is comic as well.
- [37:53]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
It is.
- [37:54]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
It has to be, because it's reflective of reality. Like, at the time, it was so absurd.
- [37:59]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Once again, it's like, take out the hindsight. And it was just like the woman on the phone, what you. Where I'm on. I mean, you listen to that 911 call. There's a litany of 911 calls you can listen to, which give a lot of the story away, too. And you just go. So we can't play. We can't go. Okay. The tragedy, the tragedy. The tragedy, the tragedy. This is just. It's. It's, you know, it's Beverly Hillbillies, man. This is just. This is like Dukes of Hazard. It's crazy shit.
- [38:23]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Absolutely. Like, the. The roadside shooting was the one where, from the very beginning, my sources started calling me, and they were like, something's not right. Like, there's no way. And then everything started falling apart for him so quickly. Like, he wasn't. His car that he was driving had run flat tires. So if you have a. And then a lot of.
- [38:43]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Oh, no, it was falling apart big time at that point. I mean, he's. You know, his body's. Packe. He's not getting it. He's. You know, he's. You know, when you go. When you go down with the. What he was taking, this is where you go to the drugs. It's like, you know, he talks about it in the trial, and he sits there. I love the. Just the public humiliation, the way he just went into it. It's just like, you know, I mean, you know, take us through. When water's asked to take us through. Take us through, you know, withdrawals, you know, I mean, you know, then the sweat just starts running down your brow. I mean, you sweat like you're running a marathon, you know, and then you got, you know, the digestive problems. I mean, you can't. It's like, you know, it's like you got. You got diarrhea. Like, you know, you got. You got food poisoning, you know, and he's sitting. It's like the whole community. Oh, my God. You know what I mean? I listen to that so many. And I'd sit in the makeup chair and if I needed to have a laugh like I am now, just to warm up, I just put that and I do, you know, I'm going to do that. You know, then you got, you know, you got. You got diarrhea. Like you got food poisoning. I mean, you know, you drag it out and you start fighting and it sits inside you in this. There's just a. There's a madness to it. And it was in the public eye and his son and his father and his brothers and his family are all sitting there watching this man talk about his diarrhea problems.
- [39:56]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
And everybody told him not to be on that stand too. Like, everybody said that was bad, but the material that you got from that was gold.
- [40:04]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Oh, look, you know, he was in trouble at that point. He was done so in his way. It was like, you know what? And also there's a couple. He turns around and he says his apology, you know, I mean, he put himself through this. It was like some kind of bizarre game show, torture game show where he's just like, I'm gonna let it all hang out, you know what I mean? I mean, and he did, you know, and he's crying and getting a tear up and he's looking at the system and she's saying, you know, and he turns around and he apologizes and Paul's there. And the thing, you know, and I mean, all of was. It was like Dr. Judy torture or something, you know, it's like this man in front of this town, just letting it all hang out. And the trial's really interesting because you also understand to get back, you know, people wanted anger or wanted the threat of the man, you know, and it's in there all the time. We have that scene between, with the scenes, we take a stab in the jail beforehand, where you see me going, it's going south. What the fuck you got? You know, Because I was always also. Also struck by how his defence attorney kicked off that really badly, in my opinion. You know, did you take this gun and did you shoot this? It's just like, whoa, whoa, whoa, back it down, dude. You've gone up. You've even gone 2 decibels high. It's like, what the fuck did you Just take, man, you know, and you go. And I guess it's because of pressure, you know. Pressure not just from the audience, the public thing, but also from Alec, you know. And that's where I knew this. The man's is gonna. It's in the script and it's in the story in strange ways, in ways that don't need to be put on the head or evil staring down or I'm gonna bully you, woman and stuff like that. It's in there everywhere. And it's to his disadvantage, you know. Jim kicked that off terribly. And then he leads into a bizarre kind of thing, you know, and he's dragging it up because it had already been kicked off fake. If another director does that to a scene, everyone picks up the vibe. But it's gone weird, you know what I mean? It's actually gone really weird. If somebody forgets the lines, it's all. And that's what had happened. I liken it, you know. And then he's. And it took him a good 20, 30 minutes to get his footing back in there, you know, it's like the fake crying. He'd done himself no favors. I mean, he'd set himself up for something and instead of playing it where it lands, you know, he doubled down and made it all more fake. And that's like in a bad scene, man. It's like we can see. I don't believe what you're saying. You know what I mean? It was insane, but it makes sense, you know what I mean? It really does. You start to connect the dots, take out the sound. And then I would take out the visuals and listen to it all the time. But I was also. Take out the sound and just watch it.
- [42:27]
Rob Morrow (Actor portraying Creighton Waters)
Cause there's a.
- [42:28]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
There's disconnect there. And in that disconnect, you'll see in the machinations of this man that lead you to do what he, you know, have some kind of. What he did and where he ended up and why he's now and why it's playing out in this strange, bizarre way afterwards. It'll tell you how he killed them, you know, which is what we had to take a stab at. It'll help you get to where we get to at the ending. Because you can't just close this off. Give a TV ending to satisfy the justice has been served. Clang. You know. You know, it hasn't, you know, and he ain't bending over and admitting anything. So how do you get across that? You know, And I. And I feel for the town and the people and that's why, you know, that once again, that the beaches. Being able to give across that is just like. It's one of the most. It's beautiful. It's not. It's not stupid. It's not cheap. It's actually extraordinary. And I truly hope that they've hung onto that, you know, and it's still in them, because that's the best of humanity.
- [43:21]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Yeah, the Satterfields as well. The Satterfields forgave him.
- [43:25]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
And, yeah, I love the glorious story now.
- [43:28]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
I love it too.
- [43:29]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
There were so many very, very smart things that I think the writers did and kept and earned the ability to change a few things in there, to reflect certain things. But because it stayed within reality, because we never had any cheap, you know, we're just gonna give you a. Ring the satisfaction bell here for you or make some big, bold thing to give some juice to a scene that's not working right.
- [43:51]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
And that's what I love about it. And Michael always talks about emotional truth and. And I stand by emotional truth. It's not the real truth, it's the emotional truth. I'm sure you've heard it yet.
- [44:01]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
I'm sure he's trying to listen to that writer's emotional truth, really. God help us all.
- [44:05]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
So the writing was fantastic.
- [44:07]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
But you're right, like, there was.
- [44:09]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
There were things to change that I understood that.
- [44:12]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Simple things. You reflect things, though. Mandy.
- [44:14]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
Yeah.
- [44:14]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Cutting from Gloria and the Saddlefields sitting around the table. And then she says, you know, I want to say a prayer for the Murdochs and everything they're going through, you know, cutting to me, Cameron, you get one of those hot stone massages. Bus. You know, you gotta get some of that shit and you just go, that is, you know, did that happen like that? No, but you're reflecting certain things and then. That's why I think each episode then stands above just the story itself and is saying other things, you know, whatever you want to see them as hypocrisy, you know, use and abuse, you know, where. You know, that's why it was like. There was a line. I think it made like, you know, when Paul's lecturing us about killing Gloria and I had a line, it's just like, dude, well, where's your underpants, man? Cause you don't know where they are, do they? Because Gloria puts them away for you all the time. So don't. You know, there's an element of, like, it's all gone sideways here, you know, it's all gone sideways. So don't you know, point fingers, they can be pointed back.
- [45:01]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
Right.
- [45:02]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
And I liked what they did with the timeline. And you gotta, like you said, you gotta see Gloria, you gotta see her family and how vastly different that was from the Murdoch's life. And that was just a brilliant thing too.
- [45:16]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Yeah, absolutely.
- [45:17]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Yeah. And you gotta know them as humans. And we'll be right back.
- [45:24]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
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- [45:45]
Spencer Garrett (Actor portraying Jim Griffin)
Call of Duty Black Ops 7 available now.
- [45:48]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
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- [45:54]
Jim Griffin (Defense Attorney, portrayed by Spencer Garrett)
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- [45:56]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Your beds are soft and cozy. No lumpy couch, no stiff futon, no shower line at crack of the.
- [46:07]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
When.
- [46:08]
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- [46:24]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
Before we dive back into my interview with Jason Clark, I want to share a conversation with actor Spencer Garrett, who brilliantly portrays Jim Griffin, one half of Eck Murdoch's defense team. Looking back, one of my favorite moments was being on set at about 4am Getting the chance to chat with both Tommy Dewey, who plays Mark Tinsley, and Spencer Garrett, who plays Jim Griffin. If you've listened to our early Murdoch Murders podcast episodes, you'd know that the real Jim Griffin once inappropriately offered to bet me a bottle of rum that he would prove that Alec's side of the road head wound was from being shot in the head. And yeah, I'm still waiting on that bottle of rum. Spencer gives us a behind the scenes look at what it was like filming some of the most intense courtroom and holding cell scenes alongside Jason. His reflections on Jason's transformation into Elec, both chilling and deeply human, capture how powerful this series really is. Here is Spencer on what it felt like to face Jason's Ellic Murdoch inside that holding cell.
- [47:28]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Did you imagine it in film when you were listening or when I heard.
- [47:32]
Spencer Garrett (Actor portraying Jim Griffin)
That Jason Clark was doing was just gosh, a light bulb. I mean, and then when I saw him when I walked into the makeup trailer in Atlanta and I saw my friend Jason, who I know well with the reddish hair and it was chilling. It was absolutely chilling. It was a version of Alec. It was a different version of Alec. There was something a little bit more sinister that you immediately respond to viscerally when you see how Jason looks in the film now, I don't want to give anything away, but there's an uncanniness to how much he looks like Alec and how different he looks from Alec. But he captures his essence, I think so perfectly.
- [48:10]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Big presence on set. Big presence, yeah. And I was the same the first time I saw him. Like chills. I thought, I've seen Alex Murdock in person many a time.
- [48:20]
Spencer Garrett (Actor portraying Jim Griffin)
Big presence. Jason has a big presence on any set that he's on. And listening to Alec and being an actor and being student of actors and student of behavior and watching Alec on the stand and he had that sort of soft spoken kind of thing, the way he spoke and it was. The acting, when you look back in retrospect, was extraordinary. And Jason really, I think, kind of captured that. Cause when he has to, when he's speaking to the jury and he's speaking to the prosecutor, to Creighton, he had everybody played.
- [48:55]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
I loved that scene in the holding cell because, I mean, as the whole world was watching everything, that's one thing that we didn't see, you know, and everybody was imagining what was going on behind. And I think that that's probably the most accurate. I mean, we'll never know unless Dick and Jim talk about it and truthfully talk. But I thought that it showed too how they kind of saw that other side of Alex in that moment. Cause he's freaking out.
- [49:22]
Spencer Garrett (Actor portraying Jim Griffin)
He's freaking out. And that was a choice that Jason made along with Steven Payette, the director, because there were several takes, I think, where it was a lot more measured and quieter. And Jason said, I'm just gonna take it in a different direction and just really lean into the sociopathy of this guy. And boy, you see his eyes. And he turned into this other beast. And I think that's a great turn because it's also. It's the last couple episodes of the show in the trial. And so when you see. You really see who this guy really is. And I think if Jason had made the choice or if they'd chosen to stay with that kind of quieter tone, I don't think it would have been as impactful at the very end because I think we all know where this was going. And it was a great choice that he made. And it impacted my performance. I know it impacted Jim's performance. Cause I think when you see him take the newspaper and kind of slap it at me and I kind of recoil like that, that was real. Cause I didn't expect that he didn't Say, watch out. I'm gonna hit you with this thing. He just hit. I was like, oh, okay, we're in it now.
- [50:30]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
Rob Morrow portrays lead prosecutor Creighton Waters in the series. Rob brings a sharp, observant perspective to playing a real figure at the center of South Carolina's most complex criminal trial. In Liz Farrell's interview with Rob, they talked about capturing Creighton's cadence, conviction, and the essence of presenting truth in a story this big.
- [50:53]
Podcast Host Liz Farrell
In addition to meeting Jim Griffin's character, the audience finally gets to see the man himself in action. And that's South Carolina Attorney General's office prosecutor Creighton Waters, who had trial watchers across the world rooting for him as the trial continued day after day. Actor Rob Morrow plays Creighton with the same reserved but powerful Big Creighton energy that Creighton gave us from the real life courtroom. Big Creighton Energy, or BCE, as we shortened it, is a term we coined for Creighton's marvelous lawyering during the investigations and prosecutions of Elek Murdoch. The irony was that unlike elek's defense team, BCE didn't involve the theatrics or trickery. Creighton's energy was built on studious preparation and the ability to beat back the nonsense from Dick and Jim. Our cup of justice co host, Eric Bland, who's also the real attorney representing the Satterfield family, had a close relationship with Creighton during the trial and would regularly share insights on our newly launched cup of justice podcast, also ranked number one globally in 2023. And we were fortunate to interview the real Creighton after the trial on our 83rd episode of the Murdoch Murders PodC, which we published just after Ellick's guilty verdict. Our reporting often intersected with Waters prosecution. While independent of each other, we both pursued truth, evidence and transparency in a case defined by secrecy and systemic failure. Here's a key scene with Rob Morrow as creighton in episode 8 of Murdoch death in the Family.
- [52:23]
Rob Morrow (Actor portraying Creighton Waters)
You had a very successful career up to this point, did you not? You think you lived a life of privilege?
- [52:30]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
I think you could say that In.
- [52:33]
Rob Morrow (Actor portraying Creighton Waters)
June of 2021, you were suffering from drug addiction, your father was ill. You were coming to the point of a financial crisis. Isn't that true?
- [52:41]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
I had some financial issues, yes, that's correct.
- [52:43]
Rob Morrow (Actor portraying Creighton Waters)
Issues you lied to your father about.
- [52:46]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
I'm sure I did at some point. Mm. You lied to your brothers about financial matters. I did.
- [52:52]
Rob Morrow (Actor portraying Creighton Waters)
You lied to your sister in law, Mary Ann Proctor.
- [52:54]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
I did lie to Her? Yes.
- [52:55]
Rob Morrow (Actor portraying Creighton Waters)
Did you lie to your colleagues and law partners at pmped?
- [52:58]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
I did.
- [52:59]
Rob Morrow (Actor portraying Creighton Waters)
You lied to your clients?
- [53:01]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Some of them.
- [53:01]
Rob Morrow (Actor portraying Creighton Waters)
Did you lie to Tony and Brian Satterfield, whose mother, Gloria, was your longtime housekeeper?
- [53:06]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Yes, I did.
- [53:07]
Rob Morrow (Actor portraying Creighton Waters)
Mr. Murdoch, are you a family annihilator?
- [53:11]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
I would never hurt Maggie Murdoch. I would never hurt Paul Murdoch under any circumstances.
- [53:21]
Rob Morrow (Actor portraying Creighton Waters)
You say that, but you lied to Maggie, didn't you?
- [53:25]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Yes, I did lie to her.
- [53:26]
Rob Morrow (Actor portraying Creighton Waters)
You lied to Paul.
- [53:28]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Yes.
- [53:29]
Rob Morrow (Actor portraying Creighton Waters)
So if you admit that you lied to all these people, why should we believe you're telling the truth? Now you know why people lie, Mr. Murdaugh. Cause they know they've done something wrong.
- [53:42]
Podcast Host Liz Farrell
I know. Our faithful listeners and court watchers from Alex trial likely remember that tense Exchange Back in 2023, I spoke with Rob about what it was like for his version of Creighton Waters to take on Jason Clark's version of Ellie Murdock.
- [53:58]
Rob Morrow (Actor portraying Creighton Waters)
First of all, I just have to say that Jason Clark's performance is off the hook. Brilliant. I mean, as is Patty's. As is A lot of, you know, everyone on that screen is great, but Jason just blows my mind because, as I'm sure you know, he is nothing like that.
- [54:14]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
He is.
- [54:15]
Rob Morrow (Actor portraying Creighton Waters)
It is a complete and utter transformation. And I really. If there's any, you know, just justice in the universe, that guy's gonna be taking an Emmy home in September.
- [54:26]
Podcast Host Liz Farrell
I hope so. What was that like? Because you have one of the pivotal scenes of having to go toe to toe with him, which in real life, that went over the course of two days and was painful for everyone because of the narcissism. But you in the room with Jason Clark as Alec, what was that like?
- [54:42]
Rob Morrow (Actor portraying Creighton Waters)
Isn't it funny? It took me, like, four days to shoot it, but it was two days. Well, you know, it was just perfect. You know, it's all about your dance partner in acting. And what it comes down to is, does the actor believe so deeply in what they're doing that it makes you think that it's true? And so Jason not only presented this person that I had been watching on, you know, that I was watching between takes, I was watching the trial, and then there I go and walk up and start, you know, attacking him. And I just believe that I'm talking to Alec Murdoch, and the dialogue was written so well. And as I said, they were writing it up to before they were rolling the camera. So it was really idiosyncratic. And I had so much fun playing with Jason because he was one of those actors that, you know, it was his show. So I had coming in and I have to speaking to what we were talking about earlier about taking stage, I have to take stage in an environment where all these people have been working for months and months and they're all comfortable, and here comes this guy that nobody knows or maybe they know from my work, but, like. And I've got a act, like I own the room, you know. And so Jason was very accommodating and constantly letting me know, what do you need, buddy? I'm here for you. You know, encouraging me, you know, if I was ad libbing or doing stuff that was, you know, I like to shake it up. And the director, Stephen Pyatt, was just as good as they get in terms of guiding me and then giving me enough room to play. And, you know, while we wanted to be truthful to what was, we also wanted to create good drama. You know, he gave me a wide berth and Jason was just every step of the way encouraging and cool and fun.
- [56:32]
Podcast Host Liz Farrell
Was it intimidating in the sense of not, you know, just Jason Clark, the actor, and just what he was doing in front of you? But for me, seeing Jason dressed as Ellic and inhabiting the essence of Alec, that was very difficult for me. The first time I just saw him come out of his trailer, you said that he was, you know, this is Elec in front of you. How did that feel? Just in terms of that maybe like I'm talking to a murderer right now.
- [56:57]
Rob Morrow (Actor portraying Creighton Waters)
Yeah, Interesting. It didn't. I didn't feel intimidated because I had so much ammo as Creighton. The evidence was so overwhelming and that his pattern of lies, you know, was so long that all I had to do was reveal and let him just reveal how he lied to the audience. So, you know, to answer your question, like, as an actor, if I know that I'm speaking the truth, right, And I know, you know, that this was a heinous murder. Rob knows this. You know, I can get behind that. So I'm not intimidated because I'm empowered. I'm doing justice here, you know, so it gives me a sense of power because this guy over here did this heinous crime to his wife and son, and I'm gonna reveal it. So, you know, that empowers me. Even as I'm saying, as I'm talking about it, I'm getting like, yeah, you.
- [57:58]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Know.
- [58:00]
Rob Morrow (Actor portraying Creighton Waters)
I'll save the world.
- [58:02]
Podcast Host Liz Farrell
You got that big Creighton energy going on throughout this whole process. Like, I. Because I am not an actor and not familiar with how things I Learned a lot, let's just say, from the show. I've heard the actors talk about, when you're playing a real life character, obviously you want to study them in a way that you sort of understand their idiosyncrasies or you understand maybe the essence of them, but you are also putting yourself into it as well, like your own judgments, your own viewpoint and all that. And I just concretely, I don't know what that looks like. So when you're playing a character that's a real person, what are you breaking down for yourself to get to, like, to be able to play that role?
- [58:40]
Rob Morrow (Actor portraying Creighton Waters)
Kind of like what I just said, if I can find, you know, where I dovetail. I didn't know Creighton. I never met him, didn't. Didn't speak to him. But I could tell, first of all, he had a decency and a dignity about him. You just can tell, you know, there's just people that stand for something positive. And he was. Because he wasn't grandstanding. And, you know, throughout the whole prosecution, he was emphasizing truth and justice. For Maggie and Paul, they wanted to keep the focus on honoring the victims, you know, and so I can empathize me, Rob, with the horror of what these people went through. And so what I'm tapping into is just where do I relate? And in this case, it was everywhere, you know, and then I just had to understand the machinations with Creighton, like getting inside his skin as much as I could. What fascinated me was how controlled, you know, he had to be. It's. He's not a flash, not flashy lawyering. You know, you referenced Barry Scheck. You know, Barry Scheck was a bit of a performer. This guy is not. He's disciplined. He's. You know, he's layered. It's patient. He had to stay laser focused while dealing with. With. With a defendant who was such a skillful liar. And there you come back to Jason again, because the pathology that Jason was able to tap into was completely convincing. And when you looked in his eyes, you know, he had these contacts, which made it even more mysterious because he's got, like, blue or green eyes, and Alec had dark brown eyes. And so you couldn't see what was going on, but you could tell that person he was so skillful at lying. So the challenge was to portray someone who puts the truth together piece by piece, brick by brick. And I love logic, so I'm just able to tap into all that to.
- [60:36]
Podcast Host Liz Farrell
Hook me, just as the Murdoch case will forever be a Highlight of Crichton Waters career and obviously a highlight of my career and Mandy's and David's careers. It has been so deeply satisfying to hear from the cast, creators and crew of Murdoch Death in the Family during our series of companion podcast episodes, and discovering that they too have felt that same sense of purpose in not only doing justice to this complex true crime story, but shining their own light on the universal truth that existed beneath the surface. A story of love, family and acts of desperation.
- [61:15]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Looking back, what was the most challenging scene for you to film?
- [61:20]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Look, you know, there's a couple of the big ones with. That's a funny question. Because there was a couple of things were difficult the way they were shot. There's a couple of things that were, you know, difficult because of the pace and the time of one on top of another. I mean, we didn't have much of a break. It was, you know, some of those scenes, you, you know, doing the crying scene at the opening, you know, coming up to that, it's just like, man, you don't want to. I mean, you know what I mean? It's like that's where you walk up to Cameron, the director, he said, listen, set this up. I'll give it to you. You know what I mean? Get any of your notes. Let's not mess around. I do not want to be doing this for too long. Right. Really don't do it to me. And so because you want to give it a stab, you know, that was it. You know, the killing's the same way. Not that you want to sit around there. There's, you know, there are a lot. At the time, I guess I never stopped to mull on it too much. Cause it was like, if I do stop at any point, like him, I'm gonna. I'm gonna get pretty fed up of being this unhealthy. And, you know, do you know what I mean? It was like there was a level to this that you just had to throw yourself into. I mean, there's a lot of the dog where he's breaking down and trying to. That scene where I'm talking, you know, where she says, I don't believe a word that's coming out of your mouth. You're sinking pretty quick, swimming. And that whole sequence has to make sense. Even though there's an argument going, the time on there is very condensed. So you're pushing up to it's the night of, you know, and different things going down. We have that. And then I go off to the prostitute and it all kind of Snowballs very quickly. So there's a lot of pressure on that to get that right or to get across. A lot of things that I wanted to show, you know. You know, sitting around in the heat with a suit on, they're that uncomfortable. And, you know, in Atlanta, it was all pretty rough.
- [62:51]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
All of them.
- [62:51]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
In retrospect, I don't know, you know, but I did have a lot of good. I, I, I funny. I had a great time. You know, it's, it's. There's something really nice in about hiding behind all that stuff and feeling I could do anything. DJ Khaled. All I do is win. That line made it. There's a line from that in episode three. Did you see it? I finished the scorpion and I got brain, you know. Cause I had to win everything. You know, I even win the drink out of the bowl, I'm the last one sucking, you know what I mean? There's just so many things in there. Like, you know, there's a bit of Talladega Nights in there. There's a whole lot of things. You know, if you look for it, you'll find Talladega nights in there.
- [63:24]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
I've been really enjoying, like, every time I watch the episodes again, I pick up on foreshadowing and just really. Yeah, layered.
- [63:33]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Yeah. It's worth watching it more. It really. It's something you can watch many times. It's enjoyable to watch, isn't it? And you go, that's what I mean. And that's what I think I'm proud of, that we made this. Tragedy gets there, and it is, but you don't understand it, and you don't understand what it's done to that community, which I'm sure you know a lot better than I do. Without taking out hindsight, you know, that it has to be lived. It has to be. You know, you have to understand this son loved his father. He comes around that corner, she comes around that thing. I mean, I thought about that so much. It's like, you know what I mean? It's like, you know, it's unimaginable. You're my husband, Dad. I mean, for the people that are left, unimaginable.
- [64:12]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Final question is, what do you hope people take away from the series?
- [64:15]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
I mean, I don't really. I don't care. I mean, do you know what I mean? And I don't mean that disrespectfully, but it's not like that. Do you know what I mean? It's. I'm not, I don't do it with that in mind, you know, my job is to represent this and get it across. And if people like it, that's what they do with it, you know what I mean? And it's to put it out there. That's all I want. I just hope people watch it, you know?
- [64:39]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
What do you hope audiences understand about Alec Murdoch from your performance?
- [64:44]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
That you're never gonna know him. You know, I mean, that's what we'll get actually, to take it back to Newman. That's what Newman said. Remember when he did the financial crimes when he gave the end and he said, I'm going to sentence you today, Alec. I'm retiring. This is my last minute. I'm retiring. I'm paraphrasing you. I'm going to close the book on this and on you in my life.
- [65:02]
Jim Griffin (Defense Attorney, portrayed by Spencer Garrett)
It's also particularly troubling, Mr. Meridov, because as a member of the legal community and a well known member of the legal community, you've practiced law before me and we've seen each other at various occasions throughout the years. And it was especially heartbreaking for me to see you go in the media from being a grieving father who lost a wife and a son to being the person indicted for and convicted of killing them. But amazingly, to have you come and testify that it was just another ordinary day. My wife and son and I were out just enjoying life. Not credible, not believable.
- [66:03]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
And he tells the story when he swam at Hilton Head two weeks after the murder, you know, and it equates across that, you know, he's known him as a person. I've known you at Hilton Head, you know, I felt sorry, but I was shocked how happy and full of life you were. And I thought I took it for generosity and, you know, you were going to come and give us back and support the community, even though you'd gone through such a lot and I had no idea who you were.
- [66:27]
Jim Griffin (Defense Attorney, portrayed by Spencer Garrett)
Question, Mr. Murdoch, is when will the lies end within your own soul? Only you can answer that. And I know you have to see Paul and Maggie during the night when you're trying to go to sleep. I'm sure they come to visit you.
- [66:49]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
All day and every night, and they.
- [66:52]
Jim Griffin (Defense Attorney, portrayed by Spencer Garrett)
Will continue to do so as you reflect on the last time they looked you in the eyes. For the murder of your wife, Maggie Murdock, I sentenced you to a term for the rest of your natural life. For the murder of Paul Murdock, whom you probably love so much, I sentence you to a term for the rest of your natural life.
- [67:16]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
That was it for me. That was my inside, outside moment, you know, because it sits inside me somewhere. But it's Newman that was telling him. You know what I mean? They were not my words, but it's a good summation. And I remember Noah Emmerich would walk up to me on set one time and says, dude, I've been watching everything you're doing. I've got no idea who you are. I thought that's exactly what I wanted. You can't quite put a finger on him. You still can't. I think that's what makes him so interesting still to people. We're all poking around here, but there's just something. Then you tell he's down there doing burpees and things, and it's like, I guess it's not surprising, is it?
- [67:51]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
Gloria Satterfield's sister said at one of the hearings, I don't understand you. Eck Murdoch. And I don't want to. And, yes, that's.
- [68:01]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Yes, there you go.
- [68:02]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
I always go back to that of, like, it's probably a good thing if you don't understand, if you don't get there.
- [68:08]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Yeah. Sometimes you just gotta close the chapter, move on.
- [68:11]
Jim Griffin (Defense Attorney, portrayed by Spencer Garrett)
Right.
- [68:11]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
And just realize he is who he is. A monster.
- [68:15]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Yep.
- [68:16]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
Thank you.
- [68:16]
Podcast Host Brittany Snow
This was wonderful.
- [68:18]
Jason Clark (Actor portraying Elec Murdoch)
Thank you. Thank you very much.
- [68:20]
Podcast Host Mandy Matney
As we wrap this incredible journey through Murdoch Death in the Family, I keep coming back to what connects everyone you've heard from. The official podcast. Michael D. Fuller, Brittany Snow and Alicia Kelly. Johnny Burchtol, Kathleen Wilhoyt, Aaron Lee Carr and Sandy Smith. Patricia Arquette, Jason Clark, Rob Morrow, Kat Candler and Joseph lacourt. The real Mark Tinsley and Spencer Garrett. Every one of them explored this story with a rare mix of truth, care and empathy. What began as unthinkable tragedies in the South Carolina low country became something bigger. A reckoning with power, privilege and the human cost of silence. Through every interview, I have been reminded that this story is not about glorifying darkness or exploiting people's pain. It's about shining a light on the people who refuse to look away. The real victims, survivors and tribes. Truth tellers whose courage forced accountability. Watching these actors and creators bring this story to life has been both surreal and healing. Their portrayals, from Patricia's captive courage as Maggie to Jason's unnerving embodiment of Ellic, from Britney and Alicia's compassionate grit to Johnny and Kathleen's sincere complexities, each performance gave faces to a emotions that many lived in real time. If there's one thing I hope that you take away from this series. It's that truth matters, storytelling matters, and when done with integrity, storytelling can instill empathy, demand accountability, and maybe even drive real change to communities that desperately need it. I tell our Luna Shark Premium subscribers and listeners every week to stay pesky because I mean it. It is not enough to quietly disagree with the wrongdoing around you. The wrongdoers are counting on that silence. I hope that my reporting and our journey to this finale episode demonstrates that you can make a difference even from your kitchen table. Thank you for listening, for supporting independent journalism, and for standing with us and with every victim in the pursuit of sunlight. Because even in the darkest stories, there is light waiting to break through. So to all who joined us on this journey, we hope that you will stay pesky and stay in the sunlight. We hope that you enjoyed the original series Murdoch Death in the Family and don't forget to like, share, subscribe and leave a comment or five star rating to give our creators, cast and crew the praise they deserve. Don't miss Murdoch Death in the Family now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney. The murdoch death in the family official podcast is a lunar shark and usg audio production executive producers include mandy matney, liz farrell, david moses for luna shark and josh block for usg audio. Sound design and audio engineering by jamie hoffman, mike bader and grace hills. Production support for usg audio by josh lalonghi. Special thanks to kate thomas, beth braden, jenny adams and sam berlin. To learn more about this story and others, visit lunasharkmedia.com.