Johnny Berchtold on the Complexities of Portraying ‘Paul Murdaugh’

Summary

Podcast Summary: “Johnny Berchtold on the Complexities of Portraying ‘Paul Murdaugh’”

Podcast: Murdaugh: Death in the Family Official Podcast
Original Air Date: October 15, 2025
Host: Luna Shark & USG Audio, with investigative journalist Mandy Matney
Guest: Johnny Berchtold (“Paul Murdaugh” in Hulu’s Murdaugh: Death in the Family)

---

Overview

This episode provides a deep dive into the making of Hulu’s Murdaugh: Death in the Family through the eyes of Johnny Berchtold, who plays Paul Murdaugh. Host Mandy Matney, along with the show’s creative team, explores the nuanced and layered performance Berchtold delivers in portraying one of the most complex figures in the Murdaugh saga. The episode examines Paul Murdaugh as both victim and perpetrator, the research and empathy required to capture his truth, behind-the-scenes stories with castmates (including Patricia Arquette and Jason Clarke), and the responsibility of respecting real-life victims while recounting such a sensational true-crime story.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Challenge of Portraying Paul Murdaugh

• Duality of Paul’s Character

  • Paul Murdaugh is depicted as both a product of generational privilege (“affluenza”) and someone whose choices caused great harm.
  • Mandy describes Paul as "a terror to his friends and a menace to the community," while also a victim of his parents’ permissiveness and his family's legacy of unaccountability. (03:00–05:55, 09:09–09:39)
  • Quote – Mandy Matney:

    “He was a victim of not only never facing consequences for his actions, but of understanding this lack of accountability as a birthright.” (04:58)

• Berchtold’s Approach

  • Intensive research: A 400-page binder served as his “bible.”
  • Embracing the “million things can be true at once” philosophy.
  • Quote – Johnny Berchtold:

    “Paul is a perfect example of a million things can be true at once…He was absolutely a victim…but also he made those decisions that had real, actual harm…” (10:28)

2. Preparation & Transformation for the Role

• Immersion

  • Berchtold wasn’t initially a redhead but embraced a total physical transformation, including dyed hair and body hair for authenticity. (11:11–12:47)
  • Detail orientation in costume and set design enhanced realism, even down to armpit hair and background posters.

• Chemistry with Cast

  • Berchtold and Will Harrison (Buster) quickly bonded, with their off-screen friendship fueling authentic portrayal of the brothers’ complex relationship. (15:53–16:54)
  • The entire ensemble formed close relationships outside of filming, helping support each other through emotionally demanding scenes.

3. Family Dynamics: Table Reads & On-Screen Intensity

• The Emotional Dinner Scene (Episode 3, Bahamas)

  • A pivotal family scene: Paul, still reeling from guilt, explodes during what’s supposed to be a fun distraction, exposing raw emotions and family fractures.
  • Memorable Exchange:
    • Elec: “Fuck’s the matter with you…You got any idea what this thing costs?”
    • Paul: “I didn’t ask to fucking come.”
    • “If I'm such a fuck up, why’d you give me the keys to the boat?” (07:42–09:17)
  • Berchtold on filming intense family moments with Patricia Arquette (Maggie) and Jason Clarke (Ellect): “Every day was like a pinch me moment...We’re really putting emphasis on what happens in between the big headline moments—the small, intimate moments.” (22:09)

• On Ensemble Experience

  • Off-camera bonding (e.g., escape rooms with the cast) paralleled the family dynamics they were portraying.
  • Recognizing both the “legend” status and personal generosity of Clarke and Arquette. (22:09–23:59)

4. Exploring Paul’s Relationships

• Paul & Buster
  • Genuine sibling bond and rivalry, “bonded and disconnected at the very same time.” (14:40)
• Paul & Gloria Satterfield
  • The importance of Paul’s bond with Gloria Satterfield (“Gogo”), the family’s housekeeper, and how this humanizes Paul in ways “the headlines miss.” (27:30–28:08)
  • Berchtold: “I don't think you get who Paul is without his relationship with Gloria. And also, it's so important to explore who Gloria was as well...” (28:08)
  • Kathleen Wilhoyt’s portrayal of Gloria and her offscreen bond with Berchtold were crucial to conveying this relationship’s emotional weight.

5. Responsibility of Storytelling Real-Life Tragedies

• Authenticity & Respect

  • The cast and crew were determined not to shy away from the painful aspects of Paul’s story—including the boat crash that killed Mallory Beach—while upholding the dignity of real victims. (41:50)
  • Berchtold: “You have someone who was raised without consequence…something terrible happens…and there's no excuses for it. But to understand that story—being raised without consequence, the idea of kids taking their cues from their parents—THAT is the story of the Murdaughs.” (41:50–43:12)

• Legacy of Generational Privilege

  • The “him or you” mentality from Elec, encapsulating the family’s code of self-preservation.
  • Mandy: “To them, there is only their family. Nothing else matters except the survival of the power and influence that comes attached to their name.” (44:45)

6. Filming at Moselle and Emotional Toll

• Moselle as a Character
  • The Murdaugh family estate, Moselle, becomes an almost living presence in the series, shaping Paul’s dreams and sense of identity. (47:54)
  • Berchtold: “The whole Sunflower storyline…is such a metaphorical arc for him…there's something to be said about working with your hands and building something…he is trying to figure out what to do, how to rebuild.” (48:56–49:35)
• Emotional Residue
  • Berchtold suffered nightmares during filming, evidence of how much the role impacted him psychologically.
  • “I had many dreams. Nightmares. Sometimes not nightmares… I just got so invested emotionally in this story…” (51:58–52:38)

---

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• Duality of Paul’s Life:

  “He was a victim of not only never facing consequences for his actions, but of understanding this lack of accountability as a birthright.” – Mandy Matney (04:58)

• Empathy in Portrayal:

  “You want to approach everything as human as possible…two things can be true at once…and Paul is a perfect example…” – Johnny Berchtold (10:28)

• Preparation:

  “They literally handed me a 400-page binder of research. That was my bible.” – Johnny Berchtold (11:11)

• On Precious Small Moments:

  “We’re really putting emphasis on what happens in between the big headline moments—the small, intimate moments…” – Johnny Berchtold (22:09)

• On the Gloria Satterfield Relationship:

  “I don’t think you get who Paul is without his relationship with Gloria. And also, it's so important to explore who Gloria was as well...” – Johnny Berchtold (28:08)

• On Authenticity and Emotional Toll:

  “You just can’t tell the story without showing every side. But it was really hard to go into those moments...There’s a responsibility there...” – Johnny Berchtold (41:50)

---

Detailed Segment Timeline

| Timestamp | Segment Summary | |------------|--------------------------------------------------------| | 01:00–05:55 | Matney’s background in reporting the Murdaugh case, introducing Paul’s complex reputation. | | 07:42–09:39 | Dramatic Bahamas family scene showcases Paul’s guilt and familial tension. | | 09:40–11:11 | Berchtold shares his pre-existing fascination with the case. | | 11:11–12:47 | Deep-dive on research binder, transforming for the role. | | 14:40–17:00 | Exploration of Buster-Paull sibling dynamic, cast chemistry. | | 17:00–19:33 | Depiction of Murdaugh family gatherings, tension beneath the surface. | | 22:09–24:59 | Working with cast legends (Arquette/Clarke), behind-the-scenes bonding. | | 27:30–30:07 | Emotional importance of the Gloria Satterfield-Paul relationship. | | 33:42–34:29 | Berchtold on Paul’s response to Gloria’s death and integrating it into performance. | | 38:02–41:50 | Portraying the fallout from the boat crash and its emotional repercussions. | | 47:54–49:44 | Moselle’s central importance, working in the sunflower fields. | | 51:58–53:04 | Emotional toll: Nightmares and psychological residue from filming the role. |

---

Conclusion

Johnny Berchtold brought an intense level of empathy, research, and emotional transparency to his portrayal of Paul Murdaugh, embodying both the character’s vulnerability and flaws. The podcast demonstrates how both the creative team and cast were deeply committed to reflecting the truth and humanity behind the headlines, never shying away from the tragedy, but also not avoiding the possibility of redemption and complexity.

Essential Theme:
The episode, like the series, is less about judging the Murdaugh family than about illuminating the gray zones between privilege, accountability, trauma, and love, both within a family and a community forever changed by the events depicted.

---

Transcript

[Narrator/Host]

Abercrombie Kids knows how to make outfitting easy. Mix and match sets are their ultimate outfit hack for fall.

[Liz Farrell]

Their sweatshirts and sweatpants are super cozy.

[Narrator/Host]

And they always have the cutest colors and patterns. Shop Fall's easiest outfit at Abercrombie Kids in the app, online and in stores.

[State Farm Sponsor]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast Smart move Being financially savvy Smart move. Another smart move Having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.

[Narrator/Host]

Welcome back to the Murdoch Death in the Family official podcast. Today I am so excited to sit down with Johnny Birchtold, who delivers a powerful and layered performance as Paul Murdoch in the Hulu Original series. Paul's story is one of the most complicated in this saga. He was both a victim of generational privilege and someone whose choices were caused real harm. Few characters walk that line of victim and perpetrator quite like Paul, and Johnny Birchtold had the difficult job of bringing that nuance to life on screen. From studying a 400 page binder of research to physically transforming for the role, to filming some of the series most emotional and challenging scenes, Johnny immersed himself in Paul's world with an incredible level of detail and care. His portrayal doesn't just show us the headline, it gives audiences a chance to see Paul's humanity, his relationships and the forces that shaped him. In this episode we will talk about how Johnny prepared for the role, what it was like working alongside legends like Patricia Arquette and Jason Clarke, and how the cast and crew created a collaborative environment to tell such a sensitive and important story. In the 10 weeks between February and May of 2019, between when Hampton county teen Mallory beach was killed in a boat crash and when the driver of the boat, 19 year old Paul Murdoch, was charged in her death, people in the community flooded the paper. I worked with with tips about who Paul Murdaugh was. He was the son of Alec Murdoch, of course, a member of the fifth generation of a family that ruled over the local justice system for the better part of a century. He was a troubled rich kid who actually never got in trouble because his name was a get out of jail free pass. Always. I spent those weeks sorting through tips and talking to sources to figure out how much of what we were being told on A daily basis was actually true. And the years went on. Even after Paul's murder in 2021, I was still doing that. Did Paul really set his house on fire in 2009 when he was just 10? Did someone else take the fall for that? Did he really drive a golf cart into a pond at a party that his parents were at? And how many trucks did he drunkenly crash with no consequence? Was he responsible for Gloria Satterfield's death? How about Stephen Smith's? The summer after Paul's death, Liz and I met up with a new source for lunch. The source was close to all the players in the Murdoch story and finally ready to talk. As soon as she sat down at the table, she ordered a martini, and from there it was a wild rollercoaster ride. Paul, she said, was a little devil from the start. So much so that at least one family was rumored to have up and moved from Hampton county because they didn't want their kids to grow up in Paul's social circle the way they had in Alex. The source clarified some of the stories we had already learned about Alex and Maggie Murdaugh and how they raised Paul. The Murdaughs treated Paul and Buster like contemporaries in some way, like college friends bringing them to cocktail parties and gatherings when they were often only children. At 13, Paul was openly drinking in front of his parents and often in front of law enforcement officers and lawyers. They found it funny. By high school, Paul had an alter ego that emerged, which his friends named Timmy. Timmy was a belligerent drunk whose hands would curl up in what appears to have been an alcoholic neuropathy. Timmy was not an act. He was a cry for help. He was a child whose body could not tolerate the toxicity, both literally from the alcohol and figuratively from the chaos and instability that came with his father's large personality. The picture that emerged from that lunch meeting was one Liz and I talked about for a long time afterward because it shifted our thinking. Paul Murdoch might have been a terror to his friends and a menace to the community. But he also seemed to be a victim a of his parents permissiveness. He was a victim of not only never facing consequences for his actions, but of understanding this lack of accountability as a birthright. The term for that is affluenza, which is fine for a noun, but never, in our opinion, as a legitimate defense to reckless behavior. It was the first time, though, that I started to understand Paul as more than just a bored kid with money who used his wealth as leverage to control and keep his friends, no matter how horribly he might act toward them. But it wasn't until watching Murdoch death in the family that everything came full circle. Paul was even more complex than I.

[David Moses]

Had given him credit for being.

[Narrator/Host]

I could visualize it now. I could see Paul Murdoch as a kid who was craving a boundary. A young man who needed to know where the lines were, because without those lines, he didn't know what to do with the feelings of guilt and shame that he was experiencing, feelings that his own father didn't seem to be capable of, feelings that his family name was supposed to exempt him from. These complexities of Paul's character required an actor who could capture all of the versions of him. The entitled brat who believed his family name made him the captain of every metaphorical ship in his friendship group. The confused young man who needed to feel validation in his pain and the release that could come with true contrition. And the child who needed parents and not friends. Johnny Birchtold's empathetic performance as Paul embodies both the swagger and the vulnerability. Every scene he is in is absolutely captivating. In episode three, Alec brings the family to the Bahamas to escape the media storm following the boat crash and also to cheer Paul up. The episode features a pivotal scene for Paul's character, one in which puts everything on the table for his family, but. But also for the audience. This is what lies beneath the surface. Ellic has just given a toast to his family and with a whistle, activates the waitstaff to envelop Paul, whose face is bruised from a bar fight the night before. In a flurry of forced fun, they perch a balloon hat on his head, surround him in loud song, and pour bottles of liquor down his throat. But in that moment, all Paul's character could see was Mallory. So he pushes them off of him in a panic.

[Elec Murdoch]

Fuck's the matter with you now, huh? This a little bit too much fun for you, Bo? You can't enjoy yourself unless you're ruining shit for everybody else, is that it?

[Johnny Birchtold]

Fuck you.

[Narrator/Host]

Fuck me? Fuck you.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Hey, hey, hey.

[Elec Murdoch]

No, no, no, no, no, no. You got any idea. Any idea what this thing costs? Hey. How hard I got to work to bring you on a trip like this?

[Johnny Birchtold]

I didn't ask the fucking company.

[Elec Murdoch]

All you got to do is to sit back and enjoy yourself. But I know you got to be a little pussy in case for just one fucking minute, we all forget what a gigantic fuck up you really are.

[Johnny Birchtold]

If I'm such a fuck up, why'd you give me the keys to the boat?

[Elec Murdoch]

You said it's my fault. You little piece of shit.

[Morgan]

No, no, no.

[Elec Murdoch]

Get over here, you little fucking pussy. Say that to my face.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Get the fuck over here.

[Liz Farrell]

Nobody's fault.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Just as bad as he is. What are you saying? Yeah, you just want to pretend nothing bad happened.

[Morgan]

Baby, I'm on your side. We're all on your side.

[Johnny Birchtold]

We're trying to be understanding. You don't want to understand shit. No, all you care about. All you care about is how things look to your fucking friends.

[Morgan]

Lay off, okay?

[Liz Farrell]

You're embarrassing.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Oh, am I? Am I embarrassing you? Who the fuck made you the president? When are you going to realize you're not the only person in this fucking family? Don't fucking talk to me about being in a family. Bro, you're never fucking around. You know what it's like for me to be in the house with the two of them when you're gone? How fucked up it is? No, you know what? You're right. I don't give a fuck about you because you don't actually give a fuck about me.

[Narrator/Host]

Shh.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Shh.

[Morgan]

Baby, you've been through a lot. Your daddy and I, we are gonna make sure that all of this misunderstanding goes away.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Let's get to that. Sometimes, Mama, what is the misunderstanding? I'm the reason that Mallory is dead. Okay? Okay. And it's not going away because that is what happened. It happened. That's who I am now.

[Narrator/Host]

Whew.

[David Moses]

It's so good.

[Narrator/Host]

When I sat down with Johnny Burchtold to talk about the series, one of my first questions was, how. How was he able to make Paul Murdoch someone that you want to hug through the screen?

[Johnny Birchtold]

I knew of the story and of the case prior to even auditioning. And I remember being so fascinated by it and truly, truly struck by Paul as a person, and then sort of went down the rabbit hole and, you know, watched. Consumed as much as I could. And then the audition came around, and I was like, oh, my God, here we go. But, yeah, it's. It's a fascinating story. I feel like it captivated so many people, including myself.

[David Moses]

Yeah. And Paul is one of the most polarizing characters of the entire saga as both a victim and someone whose actions did hurt people. Yeah. How was it like, taking on that role?

[Johnny Birchtold]

Not easy, I'll. I'll say that. No, it's just like you. You want to approach everything as human as possible. And, I mean, like, I'm a firm believer that two things can be true at once. And I feel like Paul is a perfect example of a Million things can be true at once. And so I just wanted to make sure we touched on every aspect of who he might have been, especially with our version of Paul. Like, he was absolutely a victim and he was a victim of the way he was raised. But also he made those decisions that had real, actual harm and consequences. And to explore what that was like was really, really challenging. But I think having the crew around and this team was like the perfect team to tell the story.

[David Moses]

Absolutely. How did you prepare to take on the role of Paul?

[Johnny Birchtold]

Oh, man, it was an all encompassing experience for sure. And like I said, I had a base level of knowledge and then just consumed as much as I could. When I signed on, they literally handed me a 400 page binder of research. So that, I mean, essentially became my bible. It was like that stayed open on my computer for like six months and then it was sort of about just fleshing that out and sort of taking what we need to tell this story that we're telling thematically and emotionally and. And then like everyone coming together and bringing their A game. Costume, hair, makeup. Like at a certain point you just look in the mirror and you don't recognize yourself. So that just made it easier to sort of slip in. And yeah, it was, it was all encompassing. It would, would be the, the term.

[David Moses]

And you are not a natural redhead. I have to say that you're a natural redhead, but I was shocked that you were not. Cause you, especially when I met you on set, you looked like a full on.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Okay. When you. When we met officially on set, it was a very polarizing experience. Cause I think we were shooting the hospital sequence.

[David Moses]

Yeah.

[Johnny Birchtold]

And I looked the way I looked. But again, that's a testament to, you know, our hair and makeup team, Addison and Katie and Joseph, our costume, like they just were able to build the look so well. And yeah, we dyed it all. We dyed the hair.

[David Moses]

It was fun body hair.

[Johnny Birchtold]

We sure did.

[David Moses]

So everything.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Yeah, you know, it was just like the level of detail and attention. There was so much care put into it. So, yeah, they tackled it all.

[David Moses]

And yet I feel like. I know it comes through in the film. Like you wouldn't think about armpit hair, but.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Oh, no. Well, that's the nature of filmmaking. It's like there's so much attention to detail of everything in a shot that the regular viewer sort of. You don't notice. But it's all the small things that come together to make the whole. And yeah, it's like that. It's the armpit hair. It's the, you know, the poster in the back, you're not looking at it, but it makes a difference.

[Narrator/Host]

Liz Farrell was my right hand woman, other half, reporting partner and source of.

[David Moses]

Sanity throughout the Murdoch investigation.

[Narrator/Host]

Liz was there on day one, pushing authorities to release more information in the boat crash case and calling sources who all said the same thing, that the driver of the boat was from a powerful family and that the fix was already in when the boat crash happened.

[Liz Farrell]

And the Murdoch family started to become a household name outside of the Lowcountry. It was just two years after the show Riverdale began airing on the cw. It's a show based on the Archie comics and red hair is very much its own character on that show. It's a symbol of power and wealth and like the stereotype of gingers, a sign of a fiery personality in Hampton County, Red Hare meant the Murdaugh family. To the point that one of our original sources in the case told us to look through old yearbooks from the high school whose mascot was the Red Devils and marvel at the number of redheads. Buster's and Paul's red hair became an important piece of evidence in the wrongful death case filed by Mallory Beach's family. Paul had used Buster's duplicate driver's license to buy alcohol from a local convenience store that afternoon. Not only was there a significant weight and height difference between Paul and the stats on Buster's identification, they had two different shades of red hair. Paul's was more auburn and Buster's is unmistakably more orange, something the beach family argued should have been noticeable to the cashier. Speaking of Buster Murdoch, death in the family gives us a view of the siblings relationship with each other. Much like their hair color, Buster and Paul are two different shades of Elec Murdoch. And to each, they are the only other person in the entire world who knew what it was like to be Elec Murdock's son in the series. Buster, much like our sources told us in real life, was raised to keep an eye on Paul. But he also did the unthinkable. He left Hampton county, but Buster was still the golden child and Paul was the terror. Mandy talked to Johnny about how he and his on screen older brother, Will Harrison made that relationship feel so genuine, where the brothers seemed bonded and disconnected at the very same time.

[David Moses]

Anybody could tell on set how close Will and you were. Did you know each other before this project?

[Narrator/Host]

No.

[Johnny Birchtold]

No, we didn't. And we met in. We did a chem read together and so we got to quickly sort of bond in the moment, I think one of our scenes was from episode one and they get in a scrap and so, I mean, we were scrapping in the room and pretty quickly we totally clicked. I mean, we lived next to each other during the entire process of filming. And that was so awesome about this whole cast in general. Like, we really formed relationships outside of work, which I think really helped. I mean, I don't think you tell this story without having those dynamics and that chemistry. And I think we just all across the board knew that. But it was never forced. It was just sort of like really, really wonderful people coming together and telling the story. And then so we were able to, like, bond and build that relationship. And so doing those scenes just felt so much more deeper. But, yeah, I love Will. He's the best in it.

[David Moses]

Also, it's heavy material and you guys were going through a transformation together. Really.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Yeah. There was never, never a scene that didn't feel intense.

[Narrator/Host]

One thing we learned over and over in our reporting was how much Ellic and Maggie Murdock loved a get together. Whether it was tailgating before a Gamecocks game, hosting a birthday party or a fun hunt for law enforcement, chilling at Moselle by the kennels, boating to the sandbar, or taking an annual trip for the family to the Keys, they were known for their entertaining where the liquor flowed freely, even to their teenage sons and their friends. Right after the crash, Liz and I would send each other endless screenshots and videos that we found on social media pages of the Murdaughs, their extended family and their friends. And almost all of them appeared to show underage drinking, though the size of the gathering would fluctuate. Being together and celebrating something seemed like a love language for them.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Even the scenes where, you know, they had fun as a family. And so, like, there were scenes where, you know, they're having fun, but there's always tension brewing underneath. There's always, you know, it's just heavy when. Even when it seems like it's not. And so it was just important to have that levity.

[Liz Farrell]

This reminded me of a video from Alec's trial that was entered into record as evidence. It's from Ellic's birthday party in May 2021. It's seemingly a video of a happy family doing a happy thing just a few weeks before two of them died violently. It's a video depicting a tired and muted Ellic, who seems almost sad and sentimental. And it's a video where Ellic is embraced and seemingly kissed from behind by attorney Chris Wilson, who, along With Corey Fleming was one of Alec's closest friends who later testified against him. The video shows Paul with Maggie behind him, bringing out a large sheet cake with candles to an outdoor party at their beach house. They sing to Ellick and there's this cacophony of sound where his name should go with everyone saying who he was to them. Dad, Ellick, Mr. Ellick, Big Red. I'm going to play the audio from that intimate gathering. It's a behind the scenes moment of the family's interior life.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Birthday to. Happy birthday to.

[Liz Farrell]

All right.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Happy birthday to you. Thank you all so much. Thank you, baby.

[Liz Farrell]

A haunting video. Knowing that Maggie and Paul had less than a month to live but didn't know it, Mandy asks Johnny what it was like working with his on screen parents. Jason Clark, who is so convincing as Elec that both Mandy and I had trouble looking at him on set in Atlanta. He sent chills down our spines with every line and every movement of his body. Jason's version of Ellic as a father feels like this gust of hurricane force wind that you have to brace for every time he's in the room. And Patricia Arquette, who, and I should say this, had the very difficult task of portraying an enigma. Mandy, David and I were so curious about what Maggie would look like through Patricia's and the writer's eyes because we ourselves were never able to get that full picture. And we'll talk more about that as the series progresses. By the way, it's important to note that even Maggie's closest friends struggled, feeling like they didn't know her. They could see how devoted but also tolerant she was of Ellic and the boys, how unflappable she seemed in the presence of Ellic's outsized presence. But she didn't share the harder parts of her marriage. Too often our Hampton county sources regarded Maggie with disdain. And our sources who knew Maggie socially could only say she was always nice to me. Worse, Maggie was a woman whose own husband could only describe her as a woman. So I'm in awe of how Patricia was able to portray a state of being that is so very specific to Maggie. Maggie wasn't just a woman who loved being a mother and a wife. She was a Murdoch woman who loved being a mother to Murdoch boys and a wife to a Murdoch man, but who has given no room for her own identity outside of that last name. She was swallowed whole by the family. It's a space that only Maggie herself inhabited, which by nature would make it lonely. Patricia's version of Maggie as A mother is so sharply calibrated that it's hard to imagine what it would be like doing a scene with her where she's portraying Maggie's greatest skills as a mother. At the very same time, she's demonstrating her biggest failures, and all without judgment.

[David Moses]

The Murdoch family dynamics are such a central part of the series, and so everything's so interesting about them and how they operated and exploring how they operated. We should say, what was it like working with that ensemble? And how did you capture Paul's relationship with Alex, Maggie and Buster?

[Johnny Birchtold]

Uh, yeah, well, first of all, I could never believe that I was sitting at a dinner table with those people. Patricia Arquette, Jason Clark, Will Harrison. I mean, the list goes on. So already it was pretty wild. Every day was like a pinch me moment. I think what's unique about our show and the way we're telling the story is that we really are putting an emphasis on what happens in between the big headline moments, and that is those small, intimate moments that are, like, you know, at the dinner table or, you know, exploring those dynamics between family members. And like, Jason and Patricia, they're. They're legends. They. They know. They know the importance of telling a story like this and telling it, you know, as humanly as possible. So getting to know them outside of work was, I mean, a gift.

[Narrator/Host]

You.

[Johnny Birchtold]

You don't know. Especially, like, when you work on a project with. With names like that, you just don't know what to expect. And luckily, they were, I mean, the best of the best. Like, we did an escape room together because nothing says, you know, family bonding than all being trapped in a room together, trying to figure out a way out. And truly, I mean, it was like. It's sort of metaphorical in that way, but, like, that's what it was like every day on set where we're trying to figure out how do we tell this scene in the best way possible. And they, too, like, man, they look out not only for themselves and their character, but for everyone in the scenes with them. It was. It was so inspiring to see and be a part of that. But, yeah, man, it was pinch me moment all the time. Will and I would, like, make eye contact and be like, believe that's Patricia Arquette. It's like month five doing it, and it's like. It's just. It's incredible, but they're also incredible people. So it just made it that much easier to sort of, like, melt into that dynamic.

[David Moses]

Right?

[Narrator/Host]

Yeah.

[David Moses]

It took me a while to actually approach Patricia because she's queen. Patricia Arquette like, it's.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Well, of course.

[David Moses]

And Jason, I still haven't talked to him yet because I'm so terrified.

[Johnny Birchtold]

I know. Well, that's the thing too, is like, they would. You'd be having the most incredible conversation. They're telling you a story about something and you're like, oh, my God. And all of a sudden they yell action. And they suddenly make a face you've never seen before and give the performance of a lifetime. And you're like, wait, you were just asking me about the show. I was watching. And now we're. And now you're. It's incredible to witness, but it's bizarre. I mean, I can't imagine you and Britney Snow, obviously.

[David Moses]

Funny that you say that you worked in an escape room and you have a funny story about that for the Mandy character of the show who's known as Britney Snow.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Yep. So when Britney met on set, I told her we've actually met before because long, long time ago, I worked in an escape room and I was already a fan of Britney Snow. It's true. And she came into the room. I was her game master. And I was so nervous, I could not look her in the eye. Messed up my spiel. Brittany, I already told you this, you know, so when I told her, I was like, no, we've met before. And I explained she was very kind and she said she remembered.

[David Moses]

And I was like, you were that one guy.

[Johnny Birchtold]

I was that guy. And I took it seriously, too. So to mess up on my spiel, huge. And in front of Brittany Snow, it was terrible. But yeah, we had a good laugh about that. And yeah, more to come.

[Narrator/Host]

Don't worry. After a quick commercial break. And we'll be right back.

[Maytag Sponsor]

Upgrade your laundry routine with a durable and reliable Maytag laundry pair at Lowe's. Like the new Maytag washer and dryer with performance enhanced stain fighting power designed to cut through serious dirt and grime. And what's great is this laundry pair is in stock and ready for delivery when you need it the most. Don't miss out. Shop Maytag in store or online today at Lowe's.

[Morgan]

Ford BlueCruise Hands Free highway driving takes the work out of being behind the wheel, allowing you to relax and and reconnect while also staying in control. Enjoy the drive in blue cruise enabled vehicles like the F150 Explorer and Mustang Mach E. Available feature on equipped vehicles terms apply. Does not replace safe driving. See Ford.com BlueCruise for more details.

[Narrator/Host]

One of my favorite parts of the series is getting to Imagine what Paul Murdoch's relationship with his family's housekeeper, his former nanny, Gloria Satterfield, was like. Early on in the boat crash investigation, I looked up Alec Murdoch in the court database and found a very peculiar filing in a case against him. An employee of Palmetto State bank was suing Ellic on behalf of a woman whose name was not yet familiar to us in the newsroom. I looked her up online and read in a news that only deepened the mystery, Gloria considered the Murdaughs family. I soon found out who she was to them and that Paul really adored her and he gave her the nickname of Gogo. In the Murdoch Death in the Family series, we see a timeline change where Gloria was still working for the Murdaughs and helping them navigate life after the boat crash. Like I said in episode two of this official companion podcast, I wasn't sure if this would be something that the Murdoch murders listeners would accept, given their deep knowledge and devotion to the facts of the Murdaugh case. But, wow, I can't imagine this series without the Gloria character. It was truly a gift to see Gloria's character come to life.

[David Moses]

So one of the things that I really loved about the show was it explored the relationship between Gloria and Paul, which is a tragic one, but it was something that my sources told me during my reporting that I was like, wow, there needs to be more on that. Because it really. As soon as somebody told me that how close Paul was with Gloria and how he really thought of her as another mother, it changed my whole perception of Paul. I started to think of him different, and I'm still thinking of him different through your representation of him. And I think that that shows what a great actor you are.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Well, thank you for saying that. I mean, really, I think the team understood that exact thing. It just shows a shade of him that I think a lot of headlines miss in the story. And I know we shift around some timeline events in the show, but I really think we understood how important Gloria's whole being was important to, I mean, the whole story in general. Like, I don't think you get who Paul is without his relationship with Gloria. And also, it's so important to explore who Gloria was as well and the juxtaposition between her and the Murdochs. But it's absolutely a storyline that I think that's one of the things that struck me, too, when I was. When I first heard of the story and I was, like, learning about it, it just seemed. Seemed out of character, if I'm being honest, for what a Lot of people were saying about Paul, and it just reminded me, like, of course, these are human beings, and there's so many aspects to all of these people. But the relationship between Paul and Gloria was so important to me. And Kathleen, who plays Gloria, is just a treasure on earth. And pretty, pretty quickly, I was like, oh, you are someone I can trust for the rest of my life. And she like. It was so. We got so close. That's the thing about something like this. You get so close in such a short amount of time. And then next thing you know, we're at Gloria's funeral in the show. And now I'm having to say goodbye to Kathleen. Cause she was rapping out of there. And it just stressed the importance of that dynamic. And it shows so much of who Paul was. And then, of course, you need that story in there, especially because of the effect it had on her sons and what Alec did. And it's just. I think that dynamic shows so much of who Paul was. And I'm so, so grateful that we got to tell that story and the story inspired by it. And Kathleen played her beautifully, and she was just such a beautiful figure that I was like, you need. You need that, right?

[David Moses]

She was a really bright spot in Paul's life, and you can really. And she was a little ray of sunshine.

[Johnny Birchtold]

You don't get that evolution without her passing. And what that did.

[Narrator/Host]

In our reporting, we saw a lot of photos of Paul in a few short videos. We also saw him in the courtroom twice. And we saw him mostly through dozens and dozens of interviews with people who knew him. But we really never heard Paul speak at any length NOR Maggie until 2021, when law enforcement finally released the 911 call that Maggie made in February 2018 to report that Gloria had fallen and needed medical attention. About three minutes into the call, she handed the phone to Paul. I want to share a clip of that call with you right now.

[911 Operator]

Hello?

[Caller]

Yeah, can you ask the patient what kind of pain she's having?

[911 Operator]

Ma', am, she can't talk.

[Caller]

Okay. Do you know she's cracked her head.

[911 Operator]

And there's blood on the concrete and she Breathing out of her left ear.

[Caller]

Okay. She's bleeding out of her ear and out of her head.

[911 Operator]

She's. Her skull.

[Caller]

Okay. All right. The other lady said that she had tried to stand up and fell down again.

[911 Operator]

No, she. I was holding her up.

[Caller]

Okay.

[911 Operator]

She told me to turn her loose, and she was trying to use on. But then she fell back over.

[Caller]

Okay. Do you guys know who she is?

[911 Operator]

Yes, she Works for us.

[Caller]

Okay. Do you know if she's ever had a stroke or anything before? Ma', am, can you stop asking? I already have them on the way. Me asking questions does not slow them down in any way. These are relevant questions that I have to ask for the ambulance. One of my questions is, has she ever had a stroke?

[911 Operator]

I don't believe she's ever had a stroke. Now that I know.

[Caller]

Okay. Is she able to talk to you guys at all or is she unconscious now?

[911 Operator]

She's not unconscious. She's just mumbling.

[Caller]

Okay.

[911 Operator]

I believe she's maybe hit her head and hat. Maybe that was a king cushion or something.

[Caller]

Do you know what her name is, Gloria?

[911 Operator]

Sanderfield.

[Caller]

You said Sanderfield, ma'.

[911 Operator]

Am.

[Caller]

You said Sanderfield.

[911 Operator]

Santa Field.

[Caller]

Okay. What's the house look like out there?

[911 Operator]

It's a. It's offset off the road.

[Caller]

Okay.

[911 Operator]

It's a big house. Got a long driveway.

[Caller]

With a long driveway.

[911 Operator]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Is there a gate or anything down there that they're gonna need to come through?

[911 Operator]

Big brick columns. Don't have to come through.

[Caller]

Okay, but there's no, like, date code or anything that they need?

[911 Operator]

No, ma'. Am. And tell them they can look for a fellow on a six by six ranger.

[Caller]

Okay.

[911 Operator]

Waiting on them in the road is green. You know what? They probably know what the ranger looks like.

[Caller]

Yeah, you said, like, got on a.

[911 Operator]

Black sweater, a hat and pants. Okay.

[Caller]

All right. If. If something changes with her, if she loses consciousness or anything like that, I need one of you guys to call me back right away. Okay?

[911 Operator]

Okay. Well, how about. How long is it gonna take?

[Caller]

Because it's that I don't know. I've had them on the way since. Since Maggie first called me. They were toned right away.

[911 Operator]

Okay.

[Caller]

All right. But they're. I think they're coming. Hang on one minute. Let me check. They're coming from somewhere on Bell's highway in Repping. Okay. That's where their station is.

[911 Operator]

Thank you.

[Caller]

All right. But like I said, if something changes, call me back.

[911 Operator]

Yes, sir.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Liz Farrell]

In the series Alec and Maggie, at first keep Paul in the dark about Gloria's condition after her fall. Mandy talked to Johnny about his understanding of how the real life Gloria's fall might have affected the real life Paul and how he incorporated that into his portrayal.

[Johnny Birchtold]

I know, like, of course, story as expansive as this, there's so many theories and rumors and things, but you, especially as an actor, I think it's our job to get emotionally invested in the person that we're playing. And then you have that added layer of, like, it's inspired by these real people. But his response to her passing really informed a lot of who he became. And so I just think it was written so beautifully how. How they explored that.

[David Moses]

Paul called her Go. Go Again. That was like a big light bulb in my head when I heard that. I was like, oh, wow.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Like, yeah, yeah. A nickname is so personal.

[David Moses]

Seeing that in the show and seeing him say, go, Go. And it's just heartbreaking and emotional. And I understand now, after watching the show, why they changed the timeline.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Right. Because I also, too, I had those questions. Cause I was. I came into it knowing so much about the story and the way they explained it to me. And once I got to read, really, it was like the thematic and emotional arcs that they were trying to tell. I was like, oh, that makes so much sense. Because, you know, of course, this. You have this big event, it's the inciting incident, but you really cannot tell the story of the Murdochs without her. And then also having the chance to really showcase who she was. And Kathleen played her, portrayed her so beautifully. And Winter and JD who play her sons, so incredible. And I'm so happy we got to see that.

[Narrator/Host]

In episode four of this podcast, y' all will get to meet the wonderful Kathleen Wilhoyt, who you might recognize from her role as Liz Danes in Gilmore Girls. We talk about all sorts of things, including how her bond with Johnny behind the scenes helped both of them deepen their portrayal of the relationship between Paul and Gloria.

[David Moses]

I spoke with Kathleen the other day, and she and so many other actors who are on the show talked about you just going the extra mile. There's a phone call scene where you actually wanted to be there on the phone with Gloria.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Oh, absolutely. Well, first of all, I had built such an incredible friendship with Kathleen. And so, I mean, here's the thing, too, across the board, when you'd be doing a scene with someone like Jason Clarke or Patricia Arquette, and it's now not their coverage, not only did they give 100%, they gave 110, 50%. They gave you more than what they could ever even use in the edit, because they just understood how important that was to look out for your fellow actor. And so that is something that I really, really took with me. And so then when we were filming that scene where Paul calls Gogo from the Bahamas, she was so incredible in that she was on the phone for me. I think she was in LA at that point. And so there was a time difference there. And so she taking time out of her night to just be on the phone with me. And so I absolutely wanted to do that for her. And, I mean, it makes a difference, I think, when you. When you get to act opposite, especially in a phone call, the person who's supposed to be on the other end of that phone call, and to have the way Kathleen would respond to me just changed the way I would respond. And so I absolutely want to show up for her and give that to her, because everyone was doing that across the board. It was. It truly was just like such a giving environment.

[David Moses]

Yeah, I loved. On the last night of filming, you came, you were not in the scene, but you wanted to see Will.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Oh, my God. I wanted to see it through. I wanted to see the production through, all of the incredible crew members that we got to grow friendships with. And then, yeah, I just wanted to support Will and everyone who was there that day because they're giving it their all. And I wanted to one witness that, selfishly, I just wanted to witness that. But also, yeah, just show up for my friends at that point, I think.

[David Moses]

And it was the middle of the night, I should say that part.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Oh, we were out of there at six in the morning or something, and everyone was sort of delirious at that point and we were hanging out and just across the board, it was just like, what is happening? But that was a day too, in particular rap day that just. You felt the immense weight of the story we were telling. And so, again, it was very humbling.

[David Moses]

And the amount of, like you said, energy that Jason Clark and everyone in those scenes were putting in at 2 o' clock in the morning was just incredible to see. I go to bed at 9 o'.

[Narrator/Host]

Clock.

[David Moses]

I could not operate like that.

[Liz Farrell]

One of the things Mandy and I would say to each other a lot as our reporting of the boat crash, criminal investigation and civil case got more in depth was, oh, my God, we were right about that. Between the boat crash and the murders, Mandy and I spent so many hours sharing our ideas about what we thought happened at the scene of the boat crash and at the hospital that night. We go over every detail that we know from sources and try to piece them together. One of the biggest validations we got was when we found out just how right we were about Alec Murdoch's efforts to keep Paul out of prison, about how he used his badge from the 14th Circuit Solicitor's Office to steal authority that night, about the pressure he was putting on the kids and their parents, and about how this effort left Paul in a weird purgatory where he had been charged, sure. But this misunderstanding would sort itself out. The scene from episode 102 of Murdoch death in the family between Paul and Morgan was an important one for understanding Paul's character in the series. He oscillates between being an entitled jerk and a sad teenager who lost his closest friends in an instant. Take a listen. This is Johnny Birchtold with Jesse Case playing Paul's girlfriend, whose finger was nearly severed in the crash.

[Narrator/Host]

Hello.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Let me see it. I bet you'll have a badass scar now.

[Morgan]

Still hurts like hell.

[Johnny Birchtold]

So are all y' all just never gonna talk to me again?

[Morgan]

We're talking now.

[Johnny Birchtold]

I want to go out there and help. Look, I do. I tried. They won't let me know.

[Morgan]

You listen to what other people tell you to do.

[Narrator/Host]

What? What?

[Johnny Birchtold]

No more What? Morgan, say.

[Morgan]

You were there. You know this. Everyone was begging you to slow down, literally begging you. But instead, you sped up and you drove even crazy.

[Narrator/Host]

Hold up.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Wait, wait. You saying I was driving when we crashed?

[Morgan]

I don't know. His hand was on the wheel. I'm saying that it's your fault we were even in that situation.

[Johnny Birchtold]

What do you mean? Everyone wanted to go to the party. We were all drinking.

[Morgan]

We were drinking, but you got drunk.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Oh, my God. So did Connor. It was a accident. Howdy, Morgan. Y' all just gotta keep quiet like my dad said.

[911 Operator]

It.

[Johnny Birchtold]

It'll be okay. Okay?

[Liz Farrell]

Oh, my God.

[Morgan]

How is any of this okay? They're out there right now just hoping.

[Caller]

To find her body.

[Johnny Birchtold]

That's not what I fucking meant. You know it.

[Morgan]

Can you stop? This is literally why I just want to talk to you.

[Johnny Birchtold]

What, so I'm supposed to stand here and take your shit? We have to.

[Morgan]

You're supposed to take my shit. You asked me why nobody was talking to you. I gave you the facts. I told you why.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Okay, well, then fuck everybody.

[Morgan]

Oh, my God.

[Johnny Birchtold]

And if you're gonna. No. If you're gonna be like that, then fuck you, too.

[Morgan]

No, leave me alone. Just leave me alone. Actually, this time. Leave me alone.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Now. Morgan, wait.

[David Moses]

So I covered the boat crash in real time and its aftermath and knew a lot of the people who were impacted by it. How did you guys on set navigate the challenge of telling Paul's story about the boat crash in a way that felt authentic and not sensationalizing it while respecting the victims?

[Johnny Birchtold]

Well, I think it was really important for us not to shy away from anything. I mean, good and bad. Especially bad. I mean, you just can't Tell the story without showing every side. But it was really hard to just go into those moments. But we knew there's a responsibility there and you have to tell every aspect of it. But we all got so close and we became such good friends. We had a group chat going and especially filming. Those scenes were so, so heavy and so loaded. But you just have to sort of think about what comes after and how that ripple effect, you know, led to the rest of the story. And. And, yeah, I mean, you have. You have someone who was raised without consequence, which is something we absolutely explore. And because of that, something terrible happens and there's no excuses for it. But to understand that story, I mean, being raised without consequence, the idea of kids taking their cues from their parents, that is the story of the Murdochs. That's how you get that cycle goes back generations, and then this time the cycle breaks and it's because of this big event, I think. So having to put your headspace where you've done this awful thing and what do I do with this now? We absolutely wanted to explore and it's deep, man. That's really.

[Narrator/Host]

Yeah.

[David Moses]

And I think a lot of, like, it is rooted in reality. And it's something that I didn't discuss enough, but heard from lots of sources that Paul. That was another light bulb moment for me. One day, a close friend of Paul said, I think that he would have taken responsibility for the boat crash if.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Alex would have let him if given the chance. Right, yeah.

[Narrator/Host]

Beyond Paul taking responsibility, though, neither Liz nor I ever considered how Paul might have felt about Ellic trying to put the blame for the crash onto Paul's friend, Connor Cook, whose father was a high school friend of Ellic. The assumption was that Paul was fine with that, that he had even convinced himself that Connor had been driving. At the end of the second episode of Murdoch, Death in the Family, when Ellick and Paul are shooting turkeys at Moselle, though, we were given a whole new perspective of how Ellick's maneuvering and blame shifting might have affected Paul.

[Elec Murdoch]

What's on your mind, Bo?

[Johnny Birchtold]

What'll happen to Connor now?

[Elec Murdoch]

Don't worry on that, though. He was him or you.

[Narrator/Host]

Right?

[Elec Murdoch]

Him or you.

[Liz Farrell]

Him or you. Those three words really summarize what I would think. Elek's philosophy of life is a source of ours. Who knew Ellic and Randolph for dozens of years would sometimes have to remind Mandy and me of that mentality. Whenever we would wonder why the Murdaughs operated the way they did, our source would tell us that to them, There is only their family. Nothing else matters except the survival of the power and influence that comes attached to their name. Mandy talked to Johnny about the possible effects of that legacy on Paul.

[Johnny Birchtold]

I think a lot of times when we consume this type of media, it can be a very singular viewpoint. Right? Like, you have, look, you watch a movie and you go, okay, that's the villain. This is the protagonist, but that's not life. Life is not black and white. And so to sort of understand how we get to that point, you really. You have to show every side. I think that's why we consume true crime. I think that's why we're so interested in true crime, because we want to know, like, what makes these people tick, just because it just reflects so much in ourselves and humanity. And I think for me personally, in the way I approached Paul, I wanted to hold on to the good things, the good sides that, you know, we had through your reporting and through the opportunities we had in the research phase, talking with a lot of the people who knew him. It goes back to the two things can be true at once. You know, there were so many good things said about him, and at the same time, he did something terrible. And so what happens when those two things collide?

[Narrator/Host]

Right.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Like, what's the aftermath? And how do you. How do you cope?

[David Moses]

Right.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Which is something we explore and.

[David Moses]

Right. And generational privilege, I think, is huge in Paul's story. Just like every generation, it seemed like, had less accountability.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Oh, a thousand percent. It seemed like it was all, like, it led up to this. Right. Like this. That it's not sustainable. And I think that's why it becomes a cautionary tale in that way. It's like, this is when you. When you have generations of powerful people getting away with things and you giving that to your kids, and then you either take that and you, you know, what do you make of it? Yeah, it all sort of culminates into this, what we have.

[David Moses]

Yeah. And the boat crash is really the first domino to fall. And as I'm talking to you right.

[Narrator/Host]

Now, I feel bad.

[David Moses]

Looking back when the boat crash happened, I and so many others viewed Paul as a. As a spoiled rich kid.

[Narrator/Host]

He seemed easy to hate.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Well, absolutely. I mean, I, of course, I came into the thing with my own opinions, too, which is something, you know, you sort of have to shed to hopefully play a character, truthfully. But, yeah, how can you blame. How can you blame anyone for having these visceral responses to the tragic passing of someone and then who's to blame? Right.

[David Moses]

Like of course you want to blame someone.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Of course. And again, it's. So many things can be true at once. It's like, absolutely. And at the same time, it's just so complicated and nuanced. And so I think that was something that we really tried to explore. But, yeah, of course we have these opinions.

[Narrator/Host]

One thing that we learned early on about Paul was that, like his Uncle Alec's younger brother, John Marvin, he considered himself to be the black sheep of the family, with no interest in becoming a part of the family's legal empire. He loved the outdoors, and to him, the 1200 acres of Moselle, with its creeks and horse trails and abundant wildlife, was the future. It was his land to build on and farm to develop as fertile hunting grounds. Had Paul lived, had there been no boat crash, it's not inconceivable to think that he might have become a DNR officer, or at least he would have been given a badge. He was Elec's son, after all. Johnny and I talked about what a big presence Moselle was in the series, almost like its own character.

[David Moses]

Paul did a lot of work out at Moselle, both in the show and real life, and so did you. And he loved nature and being around. Did like your work in the Sunflower field, did you feel closer to his character doing the.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Like, it was a lot of things made me feel closer. The whole Sunflower storyline, which was written so beautifully. David and Tika, incredible, incredible writers who came up with that. It's such a metaphorical arc for him, especially in that episode, but there's something to be said about working with your hands and building something. And I think especially where he's at in the story at that point in time, he is trying to figure out what to do, how to rebuild. And so, yeah, working out in the field was like, you know, this is real. I'm out there. We got hit with a bunch of rain in production, which really pivoted some things, but that just added to it. It was just such a.

[David Moses]

It's the south, too, and that's the.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Oh, it was like that all the time. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, it was really great to just be out there, be in the weeds, so to say.

[Narrator/Host]

I asked Johnny whether there was a scene in the series where the filming of it left an impression on him. And of course, it was a scene at Moselle.

[David Moses]

What was a behind the scenes moment from filming episode four that really stuck with you, either funny, emotional, or just surprising.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Oh, man. I feel like all of those adjectives can be applied to Any scene we were filming ever, I don't know. I think getting to burn the sunflowers down felt very powerful to do that within the context of the story. And Will, who plays Buster and Mina, who plays Brooklyn, came out to watch that happen. I think anything involving that field, I mean, that scene with Maggie and Paul, when he goes out there and he's working on the field and Maggie's out there helping, that was a surprise scene in that we had to sort of like, rework that scene completely because the original context was it's so hot out there and it's. You're really. That the heat's really getting to them. And it was downpouring. And so we were like, we Atlanta. So we had to rework that scene. And what we came to was they sit in a golf cart together. And it became something different because now it was like an intimate conversation, whereas before we were like, working and sort of like in the middle of it. And it just became this really intimate moment between mother and son that I think was really necessary to have. And, yeah, also I remember doing. It's just every scene, the scene with where Paul goes to see Anthony and ask him for help on the field is such a heavy, weighted scene. And Ryan Painter is so good and just absolutely crushed that day.

[Liz Farrell]

We know from the real life Anthony Cook that Paul had apologized to him before his death and that Anthony had forgiven him. It was sort of hard to understand this and how it happened, given our narrow view of Paul and his motives at the time. Was Paul apologizing because it looked better for the case? Was Anthony forgiving Paul because Paul was a Murdoch after all, and with Anthony's whole life ahead of him, it was easier. Or was this a moment of genuine sincerity between two friends and trauma?

[David Moses]

I know we talked about this on set, but you had nightmares during filming.

[Johnny Birchtold]

I did, I did, yeah. It was. It's just something that. I think when you get invested in something, when we have nightmares, we're always like, oh, trying to piece together, like, well, what. What does that relate to? Why was that? And, you know. But I, again, I. I just got so invested emotionally in this story. Yeah, I had. I had many dreams. Nightmares. Sometimes not nightmares. Sometimes like. Like a. More. I don't. I don't even know how to describe them, but I would wake up and just be like, oh, my God, I need to drink more coffee and sleep less.

[Liz Farrell]

I think it's.

[David Moses]

Yeah, it's scary. Yeah. Well, you're just so consumed by this very dark and deep story.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Well, it's I mean, that's why I think it became what it became because you can get so sucked into the story because it's so, it's so wild and it's so tragic. And then to just, as an actor, try to enter that headspace and just be fully immersed in the story, it just, yeah, it infiltrates your dreams. But yeah, everyone brought their A game.

[David Moses]

Absolutely.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Yeah. And it starts there, I think.

[David Moses]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you, Johnny. Paul, we really appreciate you being here.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Thank you so much for having me. I am so grateful to know you now and to have this friendship. And yeah, this has been such an incredible journey and appreciate all of your work on this too.

[Narrator/Host]

Wow. Johnny Birchtold's version of Paul really reflected the conflicting information that we were getting about who Paul Murdoch was before the boat crash and who he was after the boat crash. Johnny not only made the struggle of being Paul Murdoch deeply felt, he was able to get to the heart of what one friend of Paul's said to me that had Ellich allowed it, they thought Paul would have taken responsibility for the boat crash. Johnny's performance was eye opening for me in a way that I didn't expect. His portrayal wasn't just of Paul Murdoch, but of anyone being kept from their own path of redemption. The fourth installment of Murdoch Death in the Family will arrive next Wednesday, October 22nd with a new podcast featuring the Kathleen Wilhoyt who portrays Gloria Satterfield. It was honestly one of my most treasured conversations throughout this entire journey. Watch and listen to the Murdoch Death in the Family official podcast, available on Hulu and wherever you get your podcast. The Murdoch Death in the Family official podcast is a Luna Shark and USG Audio production Executive producers include Mandy Matney, Liz Farrell, David Moses for Luna Shark and Josh Block for USG Audio. Sound design and audio engineering by Jamie Hoffman, Hoffman, Mike Bader and Grace Hills. Production support for USG Audio by Josh lalongi. Special thanks to Kate Thomas, Ruby Hart, Beth Braden, Ginny Adams and Sam Berlin. To learn more about this story and others, visit lunasharkmedia.

[Johnny Birchtold]

Com.