Patricia Arquette’s Chilling Message For Women After Portraying Maggie Murdaugh

Summary

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Episode Overview

Podcast: Murdaugh: Death in the Family Official Podcast
Episode: Patricia Arquette’s Chilling Message For Women After Portraying Maggie Murdaugh
Date: November 5, 2025
Host: Luna Shark & USG Audio (Liz Farrell & Mandy Matney)
Guest: Patricia Arquette (portrays Maggie Murdaugh in the Hulu series)

This episode dives deep behind the scenes of Hulu’s Murdaugh: Death in the Family, focusing on Patricia Arquette’s haunting portrayal of Maggie Murdaugh—a woman often overshadowed by the chaos and crimes of her husband, Alex Murdaugh. Through in-depth conversation, they explore Maggie’s humanity, the chilling relevance of coercive control and emotional abuse, and the cautionary tale her life and death represent for women everywhere.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Portraying Maggie Murdaugh: The Challenges of an Invisible Woman

• Patricia Arquette explains how rare it was to find deep, personal insights into Maggie. Most remembered her as "Alec's wife" or "the boys' mom" rather than as her own person.

• Quote:
  “There’s something strange and sad about how many moms and wives who are this support system...become these invisible people.” — Patricia Arquette [26:46]

• Liz Farrell notes that after Maggie's death, friends mourned both her loss and the lonely life they suspected she led, caught in Alec’s shadow.

2. Understanding Alex Murdaugh: Pathology and Power

• Arquette and the host discuss what drove Alec—a mix of unchecked privilege, addiction, shame, and a lack of accountability.
• Quote:
  “It takes a lot to be that comfortable harming people and to become that cavalier about it.” — Patricia Arquette [06:45]
• The theory of "family annihilator" is discussed—whether Alec saw murder as sparing his family from shame.
• Quote:
  “Status mattered, his family status mattered, probably more than anything else.” — Interviewer [10:33]

3. The Allure and Danger of Narcissists & Coercive Control

• Arquette links her own research and experiences to Maggie’s, noting the manipulative, cyclical charm of men like Alec.
• Quote:
  “These personality disordered people...they use charm. A lot of times they also use victimhood.” — Patricia Arquette [17:58]
• The podcast stresses recognizing coercive control as abuse—Maggie internalized societal messages to put Alec first, enabling his behavior.

4. Women's Reality in True Crime—and Real Life

• Both agree that women are drawn to true crime stories out of self-preservation and empathy, examining dangers to defend themselves.
• Quote:
  “Women do that. Because if you reject a man in the wrong way, you could lose your life.” — Interviewer [11:53]
• Arquette: “[Watching true crime] is maybe a way of like, 'Oh, what did she do wrong? What did he do that I could see in the future if someone did such a thing?’” [12:14]

5. Real-Life Connections: The Gloria Satterfield 911 Call

• The episode plays a haunting 911 call from the real Maggie after Gloria Satterfield, the Murdaughs’ beloved housekeeper, was fatally injured—a rare unfiltered glimpse of Maggie’s emotion and chaos.
• Quote from call:
  “My housekeeper has fallen and her head is bleeding. I cannot get her up.” — Maggie Murdaugh (911 audio) [13:43]

6. Domestic Abuse, Divorce, and Societal Barriers

• South Carolina's punitive divorce laws mean women like Maggie face humiliation and uphill battles to escape powerful husbands.

• Quote:
  “It’s a mandatory one year separation and then you have to usually have somebody else testify that you haven’t had sex with your husband... they humiliate women just for... and it’s set up that way.” — Interviewer [24:52]

• Arquette: Alec designed the family’s financial structure such that Maggie could not easily leave; this is both calculated and abusive.

7. Maggie’s Complexity—Motherhood, Love, and Resignation

• Maggie, as depicted by Arquette, was not naïve but trapped by circumstance, culture, and love.
• She was “happy to be a support system person... Not everybody wants to be the star of the show.” — Patricia Arquette [21:22]
• Maggie’s gradual awakening to Alex’s manipulation is central to the show’s emotional impact.

8. Dramatic versus Real Life: Artistry & Responsibility

• Arquette discusses the daunting responsibility of playing someone so misrepresented, striving to honor real women like Maggie.
• She highlights how personality disorders manifest, referencing “Duper’s Delight”—the pleasure some derive from deceiving others.
• Quote:
  “There’s a reason people get away with all this stuff. They’re incredibly convincing.” — Patricia Arquette [41:23]
• The podcast repeatedly frames the story as a cautionary tale for anyone in similar relationships.

9. Redemption, Guilt, and Tragedy

• Discussion shifts to the tragedy of Paul Murdaugh, who never had the chance at redemption, and how generational cycles of privilege and non-accountability spiral into tragedy.
• Quote:
  “The saddest part is that Paul was never able to have his redemption.” — Interviewer [45:37]

10. Final Reflections: What Stays With Patricia Arquette

• Arquette’s “chilling message”: Beware the seductive, charming manipulator—there are more out there than people want to believe.
• Quote:
  “They're so charming and so lovely, so warm and so endearing and so diabolical. And I think there's just a lot more of them than we think, and it's easy to fall in their sway.” — Patricia Arquette [48:22]
• After embodying Maggie and immersing herself in stories of domestic abuse, Arquette feels newly wary of charming men, reinforcing the need for vigilance.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Investigating the "Why"
  “You never will figure out who they are if you don't think that way, because there’ll never be a good enough answer for you of why someone would do something.” — Patricia Arquette [07:45]

• Female Socialization & Danger
  “It's very different to grow up as a girl...is someone walking behind me?...how do I back away from this situation without hurting their self-esteem and staying safe?” — Patricia Arquette [11:24]

• The Cautionary Tale
  “It's the ultimate cautionary tale of what happens when a woman is in an emotionally abusive relationship with who I believe is a narcissist.” — Interviewer [24:04]

• Invisible Labor of Women
  “Moms and wives...are the homemaker in that way do become these invisible people.” — Patricia Arquette [26:46]

• Charming Manipulators
  “His hustle never stops. Or I'm the victim. Well, poor me. Or Randy, my brother. Like, oh, feel sorry for me, you know? No. He's set up these crazy dynamics everywhere he's gone.” — Patricia Arquette [41:23]

• Chilling Message for Women
  “We can't be that naive. We gotta see when someone's hustling us.” — Patricia Arquette [50:54]

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Important Timestamps

• Portraying Maggie's Humanity: [01:01], [05:56], [17:58]
• Exploring Alec’s Pathology: [06:45], [10:33], [23:18]
• Role of Women & True Crime: [11:04], [12:14]
• The Real Maggie — 911 Call: [13:39]
• Discussion of Divorce Barriers: [24:52]
• Invisible Women in Families: [26:46]
• Bahamas/Alternative Life Scene: [29:15]–[30:25]
• Generational Dysfunction & Paul: [33:31], [45:37]
• Final Chilling Message: [48:22], [50:54]

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Flow & Tone

The conversation is candid, empathetic, and sometimes raw, mirroring the darkness and complexity of the story itself. Arquette provides not only an actor’s perspective but also a voice of warning and solidarity with women experiencing coercive relationships. The hosts ensure the focus stays on Maggie as both a real woman and a symbol for many others. The tone shifts seamlessly from heartfelt to investigative to chilling as they explore the personal and societal implications of the Murdaugh saga.

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Takeaway

This episode powerfully reframes Maggie Murdaugh’s story—not just as the tragic wife of a notorious criminal, but as a complex woman ensnared by love, social expectation, and manipulation. It’s a poignant message for women about the red flags of coercive control, the invisibility of domestic support, and the chilling ease with which powerful men rewrite narratives around themselves. As Arquette cautions, “We can't be that naive. We gotta see when someone's hustling us.” [50:54]

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For more depth, listen to the full episode or watch Hulu’s Murdaugh: Death in the Family.

Transcript

[Liz Farrell]

Foreign. Welcome back to the Murdoch Death in the Family official podcast. For years, Liz Farrell and I investigated how Ellie Murdoch's crimes and influence rippled across South Carolina and what those crimes revealed about privilege, power, and the people caught in his wake. Academy Award winner Patricia Arquette brings Maggie Murdaugh to life with heartbreaking honesty. Today, Patricia and I talk about portraying a woman too often overshadowed by her husband's chaos. A woman trapped in emotional abuse and coercive control who still tried to hold her family together. In this scene from episode six, Ellic, played by Jason Clarke, knows how he pushed Maggie over the line. So he goes through what sounds like a tired list of desperate but empty promises to bring her back into his atmosphere. And this time, Maggie knows better.

[Patricia Arquette]

Just get on the other side of this whole thing with your daddy, okay?

[Ellis Murdaugh (character)]

Listen, Maggie. Look, look, look, look, look. I know I need help. I do. I know it. Okay? And I'm willing to. I'm not willing. I want to. I want to stop all of this. I want to stop letting these pills control me. Gonna get serious about it this time. I'm gonna do it right. I'm gonna get myself in a program, and I'm gonna just. I want you to know I'm sorry for what I put you through. Everything I put the boys through, I live with it every goddamn day. It's just. It's eating at me, Maggie. It's eating me alive. I mean, my insides are torn clean out over what happened. I know I've hurt you. And believe me, betrayal isn't. I broke my vows to you. I know I did. And I don't know if it means anything to you, but it didn't mean anything to me. Not a goddamn thing. And I. But I knew it was wrong. I take responsibility for it. But I take responsibility for it. I knew it was wrong. How are you ever gonna forgive me for it? I do not know. But I am willing, baby. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to earn your trust back. Because there is nothing, nothing more important in this life to me than this family. Nothing.

[Gloria Satterfield (character)]

I don't believe a single word coming out of your mouth.

[Patricia Arquette]

All I hear is noise.

[Liz Farrell]

Throughout my reporting on the Murdaugh murders, I had a difficult time finding anyone who could talk about what Maggie Murdaugh was like in any insightful or deep way. Anyone who could share her point of view on things. I knew from my boat crash sources that her presence at the crash site while the search for Mallory was being conducted made things really awkward. Even as she sat in the car. I knew that she was very affected by the crash and the aftermath and how it languished. I knew that the end crowd in Hampton county did not make it easy for her. I knew that she loved her family and hanging out and hosting parties, that she could be judgmental but also open to changing her mind. And I knew that people in her life who loved her tried to dissuade her from dating and later marrying Alec Murdoch. But Maggie was always smitten. Sometime after I started reporting on the BO crash case in 2019, I saw that Maggie had blocked me on Facebook. At that point, I had already seen and saved a number of photos that I thought were telling of who she was in what she valued, which is to say she was the wife of Alec Murdaugh and the proud mom of two Murdaugh boys. But seeing that I had been blocked was an acknowledgment that she knew who I was and didn't like what I was reporting. It wasn't surprising, but it was a moment that sat with me. After Maggie died, friends of hers spent months grieving and replaying all the times that they felt that they should have pushed harder, ask more questions, giving her more space to get support for what was happening in her life and in her marriage. They knew that her life wasn't always easy, living and loving Ellie Murdaugh. They not only mourned Maggie's death, they mourned her life and thought about how lonely it must have been for her all those times. Maggie's life looked very different from how she pictured it back in college, marrying the son of a solicitor. According to friends, living in Ellis World was more rural, more rough and ready, more masculine than she ever had considered. And she couldn't have known that that popular boy with a booming personality who vowed to take care of her for the rest of their lives would also have a very different side to him, one that required her to take care of him. There were so many scenes in Murdoch Death in the Family that captured this dynamic. The There are so many scenes where Patricia Arquette perfectly captures the two conflicting feelings that I think Maggie might have been struggling with, her steadfast love for Ellie Murdoch and her growing clarity that she was losing herself to him. On the day Murdoch Death in the Family premiered and everyone was glued to their Hulu and Disney apps, I had the amazing opportunity to talk with Patricia Arquette of about everything that was on both of our minds.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Patricia, it is so amazing to finally get to talk to you. This has been the most anticipated podcast interview probably that I've ever had. You are a queen, and I am just honored to be sitting here. So, just gonna start with that. Wow.

[Patricia Arquette]

Wow.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

What drew you into the role of playing Maggie Murdock?

[Patricia Arquette]

Well, I was. I was following the case from the news. And you were so instrumental in that case. I mean, as it was breaking and as it was happening. And I don't really know if it would have reached that kind of acclaim. Not acclaim, but worldwide reach and that kind of notoriety in the press if it hadn't really been for you and how you were pushing the story and all of that. So I was fascinated by this case because it was like, how did this man do this? How did he get away with this? How did he hoodwink this family, this whole community? And where's the bottom? As things were revealed, it was like, what horrible thing didn't this guy do? And I still think it's probably just the tip of the iceberg.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

I do, too. I think the only reason why there hasn't been a lot more is because he has several life sentences and he's behind bars.

[Patricia Arquette]

But I still think possib. Pathological people, you know, it just doesn't happen overnight. And I'm sure, you know, it starts when you're young and, you know, you get away with something. And with his access and his family, I think he probably could get away with stuff. And then little by little, you know, these things start building up. And then there's shame and embarrassment if there's discovery. And it takes a lot to be that comfortable harming people and to become that cavalier about it.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah, I was just thinking about this. There was a moment during one of the hearing. I think it was Alex's sentencing hearing for the financial crimes. And Gloria Satterfield's sister said, alex, I do not understand you, and I don't want to. And I think that that that's something that's always sat with me, like we're never gonna fully get there. And that's probably a good thing.

[Patricia Arquette]

You know, if you've had encounters with pathological people who have some kind of, you know, personality disorder where they are capable of these things and it is a part of their fabric, and on the other side, they're charming and the best and the most loving. And you feel like when you're in their light, there's nothing better on earth. But when you move away from that, you can become really obsessed, I think, with figuring out who they are. And you never will figure out who they are if you don't Think that way, because there'll never be a good enough answer for you of why someone would do something. Even when we were shooting this, I kept saying, okay, so he didn't have insurance on Maggie and Paul. Why did he do it? You know, and people's different ideas, you know, of what they thought. I mean, what's your feeling?

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Maybe sympathy, wanting sympathy, being a bad problem solver. I think that. I think that drugs contributed to the messes of his life spinning out of control. And also I think a big thing of his life that contributed to this was that he was never held accountable for anything before. And with the boat crash, he was facing accountability really, for the first time in his life and needed to get out of that. And he just had all of. And his father was dying, which added to cause his father fixed every mess that he ever made before that moment in his life. So I think it's just a big, awful, perfect storm in his mind.

[Patricia Arquette]

I wonder too, you know. Cause these are all guesstimations. We'll never know, you know, any of it. And, you know, I don't have to decide if he did it or not because he got convicted, you know, so I'm just gonna go with that. Yeah, you know, that's what's happening. But, you know, maybe in his own mind, he was trying to convince himself like, well, I can't get Paul out of this and he's not gonna do well in prison and we're gonna lose all of our money and this house, and then these other things will come out, all the financial crimes and all this other stuff. And then I have to sell the beach house and I have to. Have to sell this, and then some of the other women are gonna come out of the woodwork and I can't see Maggie go through that.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah, there are some theories that he was a family annihilator, meaning that he. Have you heard that term? It's like I heard it for the first time during the trial. They asked him, are you a family annihilator? And I was researching it a little bit and looking it up, and it's basically in his mind, and this is the theory. In his mind, he believed that he was saving Aggie and Paul from the shame that they were about to go through. And I do think something that's very true to Alex is status mattered. His family status mattered, probably anything more than anything else. And what people thought of his family. And he did not want Paul or Maggie to be there for when his finances were revealed. So that's a Part of. But again, we're never gonna get there.

[Patricia Arquette]

We're never gonna know. So we could just go down this terrifying rabbit hole and never understand. But it's funny, you know, that natural instinct that people have to try to understand why other people do what they.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Do, especially as women. Like, I feel like we, so many women are drawn to true. Because we are too often the victims of it and not the perpetrators. And we kind of have an instinct to learn, like, about crimes and how to prevent these crimes from happening and how to protect ourselves from these crimes.

[Patricia Arquette]

Yeah, I said that the other day in an interview because I just thought, you know, it's very different to grow up as a girl when you're little, it's like, is someone walking behind me? I have to cross the street. Is this guy coming onto me? Okay. I have to, like, make sure his ego's not crushed and he's not offended. And, oh, I would date you. I would give you my number, but I have a boyfriend. And, oh, you seem lovely. And, you know, how do I back away from this situation without hurting their.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Self esteem and staying safe? Like, women do that. Because if you reject a man in the wrong way, you could lose your life.

[Patricia Arquette]

Yeah. You feel that in your body. Like, I have to deal with this carefully.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

So I'm gonna smile and be polite. But.

[Patricia Arquette]

Yeah, exactly.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

But not too polite. Cause you don't want them too close. It's impossible.

[Patricia Arquette]

So, yeah, I do think watching true crime, 48 hours, whatever those shows are, all of that stuff, is maybe a way of like, oh, what did she do wrong? Oh, what did he do That I could see in the future if someone did such a thing, you know?

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Patricia Arquette]

Yeah. But I also think we've always been interested in this stuff. Shakespeare, you know, these tragedies, the Roman, you know, and the Greek tragedies. Like we've always, as a species, wondered, especially in families, especially with people who claim they love you, say they love you. How are people capable of being so diabolical?

[Liz Farrell]

Before we play this next clip, I want to prepare you. What you're about to hear is one of the only public recordings of the real Maggie Murdoch. It's her voice calling 911 on February 2, 2018, moments after Gloria Satterfield fell and suffered a fatal head injury at the Murdaugh's Moselle property. This was not easy audio to hear. It's raw and heartbreaking. It's also an important moment, one that connects the real lives at the center of Murdoch death in the family with the dramatization you see on Hulu. We're sharing it here so that Gloria's story and Maggie's raw personality in that moment are remembered with the respect and weight they deserve.

[Maggie Murdaugh (911 call)]

4147 Moselle Road. Okay, what's going on out there? I'm sorry? What's going on out there? My housekeeper has fallen and her head is bleeding. I cannot get her up. Okay, you said she's fallen, she's leaving from the head? Yes. How old is she? I'm not sure. Like, 58, maybe. Do you know if she saw from standing or not? No. No. Where'd she fall from? From the. She fell going up the steps. Up the brick steps. Okay, so she outside or inside? Outside. How many steps is there? Eight. Okay, is she on the ground or is she up near the side? She's on the ground. She's on the ground. She's on the ground. Is she conscious? No, not really. Is she awake at all? Yes. Okay, if she's just not, like, responding appropriately, but she is awake, man. She's not. No, she's not responding. Okay. I just. I've already got them on the way. Me asking questions does not slow them down, ma'. Am. Knowing if she's conscious is one of the things that the medic needs to know. She's responding at all to you? No. Okay, so she's not responsive at all? Well, I mean, she's mumbling. Okay, so she is somewhat conscious. Is she breathing okay? Yes. Is she bleeding from anywhere? Yes, her head. Okay, Are you guys able to control the bleeding? No. Can you put a green rag or anything on it? Yeah, I got it.

[Patricia Arquette]

Okay.

[Maggie Murdaugh (911 call)]

Is she bleeding from, like, her face, the back of the head? I've got an ambulance coming, sir. Where exactly is she bleeding from? Her head? I'm not sure. At the top of her head. Okay. What happened? She just fell back down. Can I get off this phone so I can go down there? Can I have your name and phone number? Are you able to bring the phone down by her? What, are you on a cell phone where you can walk down there and talk? Okay. Can you bring it with you so we can ask her some questions about what kind of pain she's at?

[Liz Farrell]

There's a scene in episode four where Maggie visits her housekeeper, Gloria Satterfield at the hospital after Gloria's fall at Moselle. Gloria, who was on life support in this scene, was also the Murdaugh's nanny and had taken care of Buster and Paul since they were kids. She had a particularly special bond with Paul, according to his friends. One thing that struck me about this scene, beyond Maggie's touching display of compassion in it, is how Maggie had no ill will or jealousy toward Gloria for her relationship with Paul. She was simply happy for her that he was loved. She was already mourning Gloria on Paul's behalf, wanting to spare him from another loss.

[Gloria Satterfield (character)]

I ran into your Brian at the grocery store. He has grown into such a fine young man. Papa would be here visiting you, but I just don't have it in my heart to tell him how bad it is. Remember when he used to scream and scream with me when he was a baby? He never cried with you? Never? No. You two had something special, and I was grateful for it.

[Patricia Arquette]

I felt lucky.

[Gloria Satterfield (character)]

To have you there.

[Ellis Murdaugh (character)]

One day.

[Gloria Satterfield (character)]

When I just. I couldn't be. But I knew that he felt loved, and I don't know how I could thank you for that.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Maggie's life was often overshadowed by the chaos surrounding Alex. How did you approach capturing her voice and her humanity in the series?

[Patricia Arquette]

Being of a certain age, I think I come from a time where I was kind of preconditioned myself to look at marriage and family a certain kind of way like that was really an incredible thing to do. And I always had that instinct to be a mom, and I really wanted to be a mom. And when you fall in love with somebody like Maggie did when she's young and in college, you overlook a lot of wildness because it's part of the age. And everyone around you tells you, oh, they'll grow out of it. And, you know, this is just a phase. And he's a good boy, but he's just, you know, letting off some steam. And his dad was making things go away, and I think she was really madly in love with him, you know, and he's charming. You know, this is part of this thing, of this personality disordered people, whether they're narcissists or psychopaths or whatever they are, they use charm. A lot of times they also use victimhood. Like, I mean, there's a reason Ted Bundy pretended his arm was broken to get help. And Ellic would certainly use that kind of victimhood stuff a lot, too. But I think she wanted to be a mom. I think she fell in love with him. I think he was charming. And they went through some. Even in the first episode, you see that there's a past history with betrayal, pain, his bad choices, her worried about that. So working with the writers, we talked about Al Anon and alcoholics or drug addicts and codependents what their kind of patterns of behavior are with each other when they're untreated. So we kind of tried to do a lot of those don'ts that you're not supposed to do at the beginning. She's trying to manage his drug addiction. Like that's impossible. But it's so typical that you're trying to manage this crazy, out of control tiger that's running around in your bedroom and you really can't. It just doesn't work. Yeah. So I think that the first time I got divorced, I got divorced a couple times, but it was incredibly difficult for me to give up to.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

It's impossible.

[Patricia Arquette]

Give up. I mean, my parents were married till I died. There's something that gets modeled for you. So I think all of that was at play. I think the good part of Alec was they were bonded. Like they did love their kids and they did have fun doing that family stuff and they did take pride in that. And they were friends and knew each other since they were kids. So there was all of that stuff there. But I did a lot of research on all those personality disorders, not just that person and what they do, but the patterns also of their victims and what it's like when they start waking up to this.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

And I think you did an amazing job making Maggie a relatable woman that people could understand. Cause again, I think that her story was so glossed over for a majority of the time. There was no time for people to stop and think about, like, could I actually relate to Maggie? So she got forgotten in the series and particularly. And if anyone has been in a horrible relationship, I have too, where you're constantly not being put first, you're putting the person first. She is putting Alex in the center of her universe.

[Patricia Arquette]

I mean, I think she was subconsciously conditioned by society, by her community to be like that and felt like that was love. And you know, as an actor, you look, sometimes you're looking at a part or project and you're going, that's a really showy part. I mean, that's like a really killer part. Maggie is happy for Ellen to be the quarterback, do the interviews, be the shining light, charming everyone, making everyone laugh, you know, buying everyone drinks. And I think the way that I perceived her, you know, and from what I'd heard, like she's the one to drop off the casserole when someone's mom passes away and send the baby, the new baby, their outfit and get together the Halloween costumes and all that stuff. And she was happy to be a support System person. Not everybody wants to be the star of the show. You know, a lot of people are more comfortable supporting others. And I think she took a lot of pride in that.

[Liz Farrell]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

You can see that she doesn't receive that love back from her husband.

[Patricia Arquette]

You know, it feels like it in moments because those kind of people are so manipulative.

[Liz Farrell]

Yeah.

[Patricia Arquette]

And they want to keep you giving to them. So when they're around you, boy, they're so sweet and charming. They love you so much, and you just. You can't even imagine that they don't love you.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Right. I love the scenes where, like, Maggie's so excited. She's.

[Liz Farrell]

She's talk.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

He's giving her attention, they're flirting. And then something like. And then his cell phone rings. And that's more important to him. There's always something more important. And you can just feel how devastated she is in that moment, because I do. I think that she really loved him. And I think also it shows the story of a woman being stuck. And you see her realize that I have hitched my wagon to the wrong. This is not going somewhere good.

[Patricia Arquette]

As weird as this sounds, I mean, I think he really loved her, too, as primitive as his capacity to love is. And also, I feel like those people basically need attention and validation so much that whoever's in the room, they need the love from. They need to make you laugh. They need to laugh at you, to make you feel warm, to make you feel connected, very seductive in all of these different kinds of ways.

[Liz Farrell]

Right.

[Patricia Arquette]

I don't think she was, you know, manipulative enough to see Daddy did that, really, with everyone. I feel like even at the beginning, she's kind of onto a lot of his little tricks and stuff, you know, but she's still really in it.

[Liz Farrell]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Several interviews, I've seen that you have phrased this as a cautionary tale, and I kept saying that in interviews yesterday, because it's the ultimate cautionary tale of what happens when a woman is in an emotionally abusive relationship with who I believe is a narcissist.

[Patricia Arquette]

Yeah, I believe, too, he seems like a grandiose narcissist, among other things.

[Liz Farrell]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

If he's not a narcissist, I'm not sure who would be.

[Patricia Arquette]

I mean, he does seem to hit every kind of, you know, telltale sign of them, the nine things that they say. But again, I'm not a psychologist, so I can't really say. But, you know, I'm an actor, and I get to use whatever evidence I think I see to make Decisions to. Because acting is about making decisions.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. At the end of the day. And I've. This is the first show that I've been exposed to, so I see how many decisions that you guys make and it's incredible to watch. Something that I like to talk about a lot is that divorce laws in South Carolina are terrible. It's also very hard for women to get divorced in South Carolina. You have. It's a mandatory one year separation and then you have to usually have somebody else testify that you haven't had sex with your husband during. I'm not kidding. Not kidding you. During that time period. So they make. Yes. They humiliate women just for. And it's set up that way. But that's something I've been talking about in a lot of interviews. And I'm really. I'm glad that that storyline exists because there's a lot of women in the south. Especially when your husband's a high powered attorney. What are you gonna do?

[Patricia Arquette]

Yeah. And after the fact. Yeah, definitely the high powered attorney who knows every judge and everything's on lockdown. And also his financial crimes and his banking connections. Like, I don't think she even knew what money they had, where, or what was going on or was she even on, you know, on the deed of the house or not.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

And he designed all of that. Like, he basically made it almost impossible for her to leave, I think. And you look at that and it's like, oh, my gosh. And how could she have left? Like, that would have been so hard. And it's by design. What were the particular details of Maggie's life or personality that you focused on to ground your performance?

[Patricia Arquette]

Well, I really appreciated that you did that one episode about her and that you recognized, like, wow. Yeah. And Erin was saying last night that I guess there's one line on her Wikipedia page.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Patricia Arquette]

And everybody else has like a whole page about them. You know, there's something strange and sad about how many moms and wives who are this support system and are. Take that on and are the homemaker in that way do become these invisible people. But it was so great your access and to be able to find out, like, what kind of makeup did she wear? What did she like to make for breakfast? You know, what was she like, you know, hearing that, like, oh, she wouldn't just say, here's the decorations, put them out. She would drag out her ladder and she would get up on there and she really was participating in making this life this kind of way. And I think she really got so Much joy out of her boys being happy.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. And renovating. She was renovating both the.

[Patricia Arquette]

And the magazines that she liked to read and all of that. And I get it because I share that with her.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah, absolutely. The series deals with real people and tragic events. How did you balance the responsibility of portraying Maggie respectfully while serving the story? Dramatic art.

[Patricia Arquette]

I mean, listen, I don't know that any actor can ever really play someone. You know, I don't even know if I could play myself, really. But there are specific patterns in these kinds of relationship. There's course of control. There's, you know, the kind of waking up and realizing you've been gaslit for years and that how someone like Alec displays to you that they're in love with you and they shine their light on you and they focus on you and laugh with you and they bond with you. That they can replicate that and they can manufacture connections with anyone.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

And we'll be right back.

[Liz Farrell]

Friends of Maggie have shared with us that she loved being a Murdaugh. But becoming a member of that family ultimately meant that she had to choose their legacy over herself every single day. One of the most powerful scenes in Maggie's story in Murdoch Death in the Family is when she finds herself alone at a resort bar and strikes up a conversation with a sophisticated looking woman in gold sneakers. In this scene, Maggie chooses a new life imagined for herself.

[Patricia Arquette]

What about you? Are you married?

[Gloria Satterfield (character)]

No, I'm divorced.

[Patricia Arquette]

Congratulations.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Mm.

[Liz Farrell]

Kids?

[Gloria Satterfield (character)]

No kids.

[Patricia Arquette]

What do you do?

[Gloria Satterfield (character)]

I'm a landscape architect.

[Liz Farrell]

Wow.

[Patricia Arquette]

Yeah, I spent this last year on.

[Gloria Satterfield (character)]

This really big job in Atlanta.

[Patricia Arquette]

My sister said, you need a break, so she surprised me this weekend.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

That's sweet of her.

[Patricia Arquette]

It is.

[Gloria Satterfield (character)]

But to be honest, I'd rather be at my beach house with my dog. It's, you know, really the only place that I can be, just be.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Mm, Sounds lovely.

[Gloria Satterfield (character)]

Life is not perfect, but it is good. And that makes me happy.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

I absolutely love the Bahamas scenes and specifically where Maggie meets the doctor at the bar and is thinking about an alternative life and really for the first time. And I know women like this that I loved that there was a line in there that the woman said that she had a daughter. And Maggie was like, your husband allows you to do that? Just assuming that she had a husband making decisions for her. And there's a lot of women that can relate to that and understand that. And I think it was so brilliant to be able to get into the mind of Maggie and get into her thought process through that.

[Patricia Arquette]

I think there's a lot of undercurrents going on for Maggie in this. And one is when this accident happens with the boat and Paul, I think she feels terrible for Mallory's family and guilty, too, that she let Alec kind of dictate. I don't want to say that, like, well, that there's no boundaries in this family. That for years, Ellic, in the same way that he got away with everything, he let Paul get away with everything and was like, oh, he's a good kid, you know what I mean? He's been working hard in school and, oh, you know, whatever little problem it was and minimizing everything, basically. And when she starts to realize, like, because of you and this story not going away, that Ella maybe is not going to be able to make this be okay for Paul, that he is maybe gonna go to jail, I think she feels a lot of guilt, like, I should have stepped in and just said, no, you have to go to rehab, you know, no, you can't drive a car. No, you crashed your car, you don't get another car, you know, any of that kind of stuff. And then I think she starts to feel like, I'm powerless. My son may go to prison and I am powerless. And that's so sad because there's a certain point, as a woman when your kids are pretty grown up, that you have to start thinking of this other life, like, what do you want to do? Or who do you want to be? So I think that's also part of that conversation, like, where do I start? Or what would my life have been like if I didn't center everything around Alec?

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

It's just so sad to think about. And I too, always picture Maggie in college and falling in love with the quarterback who's the life of the party. And of course, when you're 20, that sounds like the best thing ever. You're right. People always are like, ah, he'll calm down. But he just became worse. And I think the worst part about Ellic is that he created, like, a layer of protection for his children to the point where they would never be held accountable by any adults, including teachers. I heard from several of Hal's teachers that Ellic would go in and give them a talking to. My boys can be late for class and you don't do anything about that. And my mom is on the school board, so if you have a problem with that. So teachers were in a horrible position of not being able to discipline Paul, and you can see how that spirals out of control.

[Patricia Arquette]

Well, in the same way, you know, I think that Alec was modeled a lot of drinking and out of control behavior that he observed, you know, that that was totally acceptable. And they shared this kind of drinking thing and partying and games and all that kind of. That was fun celebrations. And then it rolled on to Paul. I mean, what I thought was interesting with his Timmy aspect, the part of Paul that would almost go into the blackout state and become a different person and add a different name. That's where I feel like that dance with this personality disorder situation gets very close, dangerously close. A different kind of modeling that he picked up on, you know, Scary.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

And it's so sad he was never able to get help. Like, I think really looking back, a lot of his friends made jokes about Timmy and his family and made light of it, but looking back, it was a cry for help. Timmy was manifesting into something that was awful and scary.

[Patricia Arquette]

Yeah. And had a dangerous quality, like, you know, like Ellic, ultimately. Yeah. So, yeah, I think there was a lot of things that weren't addressed, weren't looked at, weren't recognized at the time, as important as they were. But also, he was very beloved. You know, people loved him and felt like deep down he was very good in a different way than Elec was.

[Liz Farrell]

You know, sadly, episode six brings us to the day of the murders, much like it played out in real life. Both Maggie and Paul were summoned to Moselle by Alec Murdoch, who was struggling with new news that his father's health was in steep decline. Ellic, who we later found out during the trial of Ellic's banker and co conspirator, Russell Lafitte, was also dealing with something new. The threat, the actual threat of not being able to get out of something he got into, stealing money from his firm. They weren't just onto him at that point. They were done giving him grace. Every scene from when Paul and Maggie arrive until the very moment of their death plays tense and heavy in the series. We know what is about to happen, but we are still completely unprepared for it. In the scene where Elec and Paul do some target shooting before dinner, you can't help but focus on the Elec character. Did he already know that he would kill them or did he not make that final decision until his finger was on the trigger?

[Paul Murdaugh (character)]

I thought you were gonna stop taking that shit.

[Ellis Murdaugh (character)]

Don't expect you understand, son.

[Paul Murdaugh (character)]

It might be. I understand better than anybody, Bo. I fucked up plenty.

[Ellis Murdaugh (character)]

Goddamn right you did. I got a court date Thursday to remind me. Go on, Go again. Don't miss this town, though.

[Paul Murdaugh (character)]

I know it's been a lot, all my bullshit.

[Ellis Murdaugh (character)]

It has.

[Paul Murdaugh (character)]

I never meant to put you through all that.

[Ellis Murdaugh (character)]

That's okay, son. Guess it just goes with the territory.

[Liz Farrell]

Yeah.

[Paul Murdaugh (character)]

This shit's hard, Bo.

[Ellis Murdaugh (character)]

What? Life.

[Paul Murdaugh (character)]

Life is hard. We can't. I don't know, we just gotta do better than we done, be better than we've been, you know? We don't gotta let it bury us.

[Liz Farrell]

Words of wisdom from a man with no conscience. Right? Don't dwell on the things you've done. Don't think about who you've hurt. Don't look back on all that. For generations, this really worked for the Murdaughs. Maggie and Paul died that night because they trusted Elleg Murdaugh. Why would they ever think something like this would happen? But it might not be about trust. It might be about something else, and that's managing an addict and a narcissist. Maggie and Paul were both victims of Ellie's daily pathology. Was no even a viable option for either of them when he had told them to come to Moselle.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

And I also love that this series will get people talking about things like coercive control and narcissistic abuse and talk about the warning signs and talk about Maggie in a way that's no longer just the wife of Alex. And another thing I really hate that people say about Maggie is I've heard this from. Lawyers have been quoted saying this in stories. I understand why he killed Maggie. I don't understand why. Why he killed his son.

[Patricia Arquette]

Well, that's kind of telling about them and maybe how they feel about their wife or.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Right.

[Patricia Arquette]

Or do they feel like. Cause she maybe was gonna leave him? Is that what they're talking about? And he was enraged about that possibility.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

But that's not a reason to kill somebody.

[Patricia Arquette]

None of it is a reason to kill somebody for sure. But it kind of shows you subconscious bias of how people can understand how a man kills his mate. But not his son.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Right. And his son. They say it in that way. And his son. And it's like, oh, I kind of get this now, of why so many women's murders are dismissed and not cared about. And it's like, oh, just, well, she was leaving him. And it's like, why don't people just get a divorce?

[Patricia Arquette]

And they may think, oh, well, there was all these betrayals and infidelities and he was, you know, playing around and he must not have been happy in that marriage. The truth is, those people are perpetually unhappy.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Patricia Arquette]

They are never faithful.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Patricia Arquette]

I mean, they're always got some things going on, some kind of emotional entanglement that they're creating with multiple people. Even if they're not physically acting on it, they're pulling people into their experience.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah. And you're right. Maggie was there with Ellic, was just eroding at her decision making and eroding at her ability to understand reality. Like, he was just chipping away because he was constantly gaslighting her.

[Patricia Arquette]

But she's not the only one. And oddly enough, that was his job. Yeah, it's like he's supposed to erode out the mind of all of the, you know, jurors.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Right.

[Patricia Arquette]

Yeah. Drag entreat you over to the way he wants you to see the world.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Reality's here, and we're bringing you over here.

[Patricia Arquette]

I'm pull you over to this reality. Hey, everyone, let me frame this for you.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Right?

[Patricia Arquette]

This is where we're going. This is the truth. This is the truth.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

But, yeah, that's such a better way to understand Maggie.

[Liz Farrell]

Over the past few years, Patricia Arquette has received much deserved recognition for taking on roles, roles of real life, people who aren't necessarily likable, whether that's Tilly Mitchell in Escape from Dannemora or her portrayal of Dee Dee Blanchard in the Act. Patricia has shown she's incredibly skilled at deconstructing her characters, in rebuilding them from the ground up, guided by immense amounts of empathy and free of judgment. Then at the end, she reinstalls the aspects of her characters that might not be all that redeemable. Her performances are so finely tuned that you don't want to miss a single moment of her on screen. This takes talent, of course, and experience. But I noticed something else during our conversation that I think is important. Patricia Arquette didn't just know her own character's motivations. She fully understood the motivations of her on screen husband. I mean, she nailed it.

[Patricia Arquette]

There's a reason people get away with all this stuff. They're incredibly convincing. You even wonder at times if they're convincing themselves about whatever thing that's happening in that moment. It's like part of what I really loved about Jason's performance was Elek is driving this whole thing all the time, this high octane thing. And it's like from second to second, it's like, I need to feel like a good family man, a good husband. Here we are. You love me, my boys love me. Great. Oh, I gotta take care of this other thing, the other side. I gotta work on this deal to get money. Bring it over here. Oh, I gotta do this naughty thing over here. I gotta have my little secret naughty thing with this friend of mine over here. We got a secrets. Oh, now I'm doing this thing. He is hustling nonstop. His brain is working 100 miles an hour, and it's like his hustle never stops. Or I'm the victim. Well, poor me. Or Randy, my brother. Like, oh, feel sorry for me, you know? No. He's set up these crazy dynamics everywhere he's gone.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. Chaos. It doesn't follow him. He creates it everywhere.

[Patricia Arquette]

But he will never get enough from anyone, so he is always gonna blame everyone. My daddy didn't do this or Randy did that. You didn't give me enough, so I gotta go do this thing.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Never taking accountability.

[Patricia Arquette]

Yeah. They're insatiable. Insatiable. They need constant attention, constant admiration. And you know that scary thing about. I love the first scene where he's shooting all these things with his friends, and he's pulling a hustle on his friend, and he's sabotaged his friend's gun, and he's still taking money from them. Like, there's this thing also in these personality disorders called Duper's Delight, where they actually get a little rise out of tricking people.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Oh, that's sick. But it makes sense. I've listened to all of Alex's cell phone or prison calls, and what I was. I shouldn't have been shocked by this, but at the time, I was shocked by this. The amount that he was gambling in prison and the. And he was bragging over the phone about, like, I won this from. I. I got two beef sticks. And he was so happy about. But you're right. Like, they still go after that chase of, like, duping people. And we've. We've called him the super Duper in the podcast. He loves to. He loves to dupe people and just enjoy to a sick level that I can't. And again, we don't want to understand it.

[Patricia Arquette]

Yeah. But it's not as unconscious as they'd like you to believe. But I did want to honor Maggie in this, and I wanted to honor just not just Maggie, but, you know, the majority of women who live their lives in domestic violence, it's to their loved ones, you know, and you don't have to be the showboat, and you don't have to be the star, and you don't have to be the hustler and the big money maker and the. Whatever. It's totally okay to want to be a mom and to want to have A marriage and do all of these things and be a good person.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

I think if she knew about the financial crimes in any way, or if Alex ever fessed up to her, I think that she would have said, let's get this. Let's get. I don't need the money. Like, I'm not worried about. You know what I mean? Like, I think that she would've rather.

[Patricia Arquette]

I would be mortified.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. Mortified, yes.

[Patricia Arquette]

Feel so horrendous, betrayed, horrible. And also even just to think, like, did you do something to Gloria? And look at her children. They trusted you. She trusted you. She needed you. Like, I mean, already, I think with Mallory's death, she feels so much sadness and shame in the community for something you can never really make up for. You know, I've known young people when I was a kid who, you know, drank too much and had car accidents and. Such a sad thing, because when you're young, you really don't have all your reasoning together. And you really. Then you add a lot of alcohol or drugs or whatever you're on. It's just a recipe for disaster. And people can make one choice or a series of bad choices in one night. And then you have something like this that you can never fix.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

You know, the saddest part is that Paul was never able to have his redemption. I believe he was so young and there could have been. He could have taken responsibility for the boat crash eventually in another world where Alec would have allowed him, I think. But it's just so sad that he never was a cause. You're right. Like, kids make mistakes. Kids do stupid things.

[Patricia Arquette]

I don't know. I think it's so hard to redeem yourself from that, to let yourself off the hook, to forgive yourself, to get forgiveness from the family, I mean. But I think he was at a place of being ostracized after that event, having to kind of go deeper within where. I don't think Alec ever did any of that. I don't think there was ever a moment in his life where it was like, maybe none of this is working.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

And I'm worried about the people that I'm hurting.

[Patricia Arquette]

Yeah. And who am I? And I'm scared of myself.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Patricia Arquette]

That part of myself. Any of those questions? I do think Paul was asking some of those questions. Would he have slipped right back into alcoholism or whatever all that wilding is? I don't know. You know, I can't answer that. But. But it's a good sign when you start investigating within yourself. And that's another thing people with personality disorders don't really do. They may cry. There may be brief moments where they think, what's wrong with me? But they don't really want to change, and they don't really do anything to try. They can go to performative therapy because you want them to or because they want the world to think that they're such a healthy person that they're going to therapy, but oftentimes they're just manipulating their therapists to get supply and to get a pat on the back, and they just want to go in there to complain about everyone else in their life.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Right. They use a therapist like they use everybody else in their lives. And it's just one more checking the box.

[Liz Farrell]

Murdoch Death in the Family isn't just about the twisty, turny story of a backwoods Southern lawyer who destroys his family's legacy and betrays the people who trusted him the most. It's a story about women who give so much of themselves that they become the background of their family's life where they barely exist, except for in the context of others. Even in her own murder trial, she was a footnote to all, while her murderer continued to take up all of the space in the room.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

So, final question. As you reflect on your portrayal of Maggie, what has stayed with you the most?

[Patricia Arquette]

How seductive people like him can be and how many more people like that there are Now? A lot of these people don't end up killing people. Even sociopaths, most of them don't ever kill anyone. They can really wreak a lot of havoc in your life. And it's so confusing because they're so charming and so lovely, so warm and so endearing and so diabolical. And I think there's just a lot more of them than we think, and it's easy to fall in their sway. Very good at it, right?

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much. This was amazing. Is there anything that you wanted to add?

[Patricia Arquette]

I just want to say that, you know, I'm just an actor, and I made whatever choices I made from the education I learned and learning the little bit I could about her, you know, and even, like, Jason's performance, it's so big and it's got so much going on, like those kind of grandiose narcissists. And even the way he talks is almost performative, like, and part of engaging you and drawing you in. And she grew up from a little. A different area, and she doesn't need to be performative like that, you know, and doesn't want to be. And I wanted to honor that. You know, that you're allowed to take up space and you don't have to be this big showboat. You know, you're allowed to be loved and you don't have to be tap dancing all the time. And, like, you know, you can have your interests and be who you are and that's enough. Because our world doesn't really celebrate those people. And I feel really sad about the wreckage on so many people's lives. You know, I know that we're looking in this show specifically at these family dynamics, and we built them around verifiable patterns throughout time of what is an alcoholic like and a drug addiction when they're untreated and what is an al anon codependent like, when they're untreated. How does that play out? And these personality disordered people and their victims and kind of build those building blocks. But I know that a lot of people's lives were completely devastated in the wake of him and the choices that he made. And there's still so much pain in that community. And my heart goes out to everyone, you know, involved in this. And cautionary tale of. We can't be that naive. We gotta see when someone's hustling us.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. Look for the signs. And with Alex, like, they were there, they were hidden, but they were there. They were hidden to some people.

[Patricia Arquette]

Yeah. I mean, he's like a grandiose type, and then there's covert types and they act more like the victim. And they act so sweet and adoring and charming and. But that's also manipulative. You know, it's weird, honestly, after having done such a deep dive and going home every night and hours and hours of watching victims and hearing their experiences and learning about all these dynamics, I'm really cautious of people now. I feel much more like. I mean, guys that try to hit on me and all of this stuff. And they're really charming. It's like almost repellent to me.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Me too. Yeah. I've been in news for a while and I'm definitely there. And I'm suspicious of most people. And until somebody proves that they're good, I don't really trust them until then. Just because there's too much out there. And.

[Patricia Arquette]

Well, they talk about with narcissists, like when their mask slips.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Patricia Arquette]

And you literally see this really terrifying person that you've never seen before. And sometimes their eyes turn black. I mean, that's. Victims account a lot of people about how their pupils dilate and they look like a completely different person.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Thank you so much.

[Patricia Arquette]

Thank you. Thanks so great talking to you and thank you for all your work and for, you know, being on the scene and telling all these family stories. And really, I don't know that there would have been accountability, honestly, if you hadn't been so dogged. And thank you all because I know you guys all have worked so hard on all of this.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

That's really great. Thank you so much.

[Patricia Arquette]

Thanks.

[Liz Farrell]

Patricia Arquette's portrayal of Maggie Murdoch reminds us that even inside the darkest stories, just how powerful storytelling can be even more powerful than the people who seek to keep that story hidden. Her performance brings empathy and truth to a victim who was too often reduced to headlines. And thank you for helping us keep shining the light on stories that matter. And next week we'll go behind the camera with director Kat Candler, who helmed episodes six and seven, and costume designer Joseph lacour, who helped bring the Lowcountry's haunting beauty and darkness to life through wardrobe and texture. We hope that you're enjoying the original series Murdoch Death in the Family and don't forget to like, share, subscribe and leave a comment or five star rating to give our creators, cast and crew the praise that they deserve. And don't miss Murdoch Death in the Family now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney. Foreign Death in the Family official podcast is a Luna Shark and USG Audio production. Executive producers include Mandy Matney, Liz Farrell, David Moses for Luna Shark and Josh Block for USG Audio. Sound design and audio engineering by Jamie Hoffman, Mike Bader and Grace Hills. Production support for USG Audio by Josh Lalonghi. Special thanks to Kate Thomas, Beth Braden, Ginny Adams and Sam Berlin. To learn more about this story and others, visit lunasharkmedia.com.