Series Co-Creator Erin Lee Carr Discusses the Victims Through a Lens of Justice and Resilience

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Murdaugh: Death in the Family Official Podcast
Episode: Series Co-Creator Erin Lee Carr Discusses the Victims Through a Lens of Justice and Resilience
Host: Mandy Matney (with Liz Farrell)
Release Date: October 29, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode of the “Murdaugh: Death in the Family” official podcast offers an in-depth behind-the-scenes look at the Hulu series—specifically, episode five, which centers on Stephen Smith, a young gay man whose 2015 homicide remains unsolved, as well as the broader lens of justice, identity, and resilience for the victims. Investigative journalist and host Mandy Matney, joined by fellow journalist Liz Farrell, speaks with director Erin Lee Carr (known for her compassionate true crime storytelling) and with Sandy Smith, Stephen’s mother and a fierce advocate for justice.

The conversation explores the complexities of adapting real-life events for television, the representation of marginalized victims, and the power of storytelling to demand justice and humanize tragedy.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reframing Stephen Smith’s Story (00:04 - 05:34)

• Stephen Smith’s Legacy:
  • The episode focuses on celebrating Stephen’s life as a joyful, openly gay man in rural South Carolina rather than solely on the mystery of his death.
  • Erin Lee Carr insisted that “people are so much more than how they died. You can feel Stephen’s vitality in everything that’s been lost to the Smith family.” (Mandy Matney, 03:54)
• Authenticity in Representation:
  • Key dinner scene recreated on set to show Stephen’s humor, warmth with family, and love for his cat—a vivid counterpoint to reducing him to a crime victim.

Notable Quote

• “She’s my little sweetheart. She deserves to eat organic.” – Erin Lee Carr (as Stephen joking about his cat, 04:52)

---

2. Adapting True Crime for TV: Collaboration and Values (05:34 - 11:47)

• Choosing the Right Partners:
  • Mandy faced pressure from many production companies, some of which tried to shut down her reporting. She found trust only with Erin and co-creator Michael Fuller for their shared values and commitment.
• Research Approach:
  • Erin Lee Carr’s research binder was legendary, containing exhaustive case details, family histories, and media to ensure authenticity for the writers and actors.
• Navigating the “Snake Pit”:
  • Rather than competing with ongoing documentaries, Erin chose scripted storytelling to explore the emotional and psychological truth of the events (07:17).

Notable Quotes

• “You were making it as the case was unfolding... It’s very rare that you get that kind of real time access to something that’s happening.” – Erin Lee Carr (07:48)
• “I want to know almost everything about this, in order to supply you with the details, so that we can get it as accurate as humanly possible.” – Erin Lee Carr (08:52)

---

3. Humanizing the Victims and Families (11:47 - 17:33)

• The Struggle for Justice:
  • Liz Farrell recounts how poorly law enforcement treated the Smith family, letting the investigation go cold due to fear and lack of will (11:47 - 13:19).
• Portraying LGBTQ+ Experiences:
  • As a queer filmmaker, Erin Lee Carr was drawn to telling Stephen’s story authentically—showing his happiness and openness growing up gay in the Bible Belt (13:19 - 14:25).
• Set Design as Storytelling:
  • Every detail of Stephen’s bedroom was curated to reflect his real interests, books, and pride, offering a palpable sense of who he was.

Notable Quotes

• “We don’t just think about him as a body. We think about him as a living, breathing person who was taken from us.” – Erin Lee Carr (15:23)
• “This episode isn’t just about a murder mystery. It’s about identity, resilience, and demanding justice for those forgotten.” – Mandy Matney (16:53)

---

4. Sandy Smith’s Response to the Series (17:33 - 21:33)

• Emotional Impact:
  • Sandy was hopeful and nervous about her son’s story finally being told right: “You just want whoever’s playing Stephen to give him justice, you know, the person he was. It matched perfectly.” – Sandy Smith (17:48)
• Legacy and Advocacy:
  • Sandy hopes renewed attention might finally yield answers and that those with information will step forward out of empathy (19:20).

---

5. Crafting Authentic Family Portrayals (21:33 - 23:42)

• Building the Smith Family:
  • Casting and writing focused on honoring Sandy’s resilience and the siblings’ camaraderie.
  • Erin Lee Carr describes directing Rhoda Griffiths (Sandy) and the importance of remembering that “all these people left this world, they left an indelible imprint and they left their families. It is our job to make sure that the loss of these people are not forgotten.” (22:53)

---

6. Addiction, Family Dynamics, and Cycles of Trauma (25:30 - 33:52)

• Depicting Addiction On-Screen:
  • The show visualizes Ellick Murdaugh’s addiction, drawing from Erin’s personal experience as someone in recovery and the child of an addict (28:06).
• Cycle of Dysfunction:
  • Mandy reflects on previously judging Paul Murdaugh and evolving her perspective upon learning more about the dysfunctional family dynamics and addiction’s legacy.
  • Erin: “Addiction explains everything and excuses nothing.” (28:57)
• Domestic and Emotional Abuse:
  • Maggie’s isolation and emotional suffering are explored in the show, deepening her character beyond public perception.

Notable Quotes

• “When you’re unhappy, you utilize these substances to feel normal, and then they just take over... addiction started all of this, and it almost finished it.” – Erin Lee Carr (28:15)
• “I just got so much more empathy for [Paul]... the show really changed the way that I view him as well.” – Mandy Matney (30:43)

---

7. Exploring Gender, Motherhood, and Feminist Themes (33:52 - 45:16)

• Maggie Murdaugh’s Perspective:
  • The show, with Patricia Arquette’s nuanced portrayal, delves into Maggie’s frustrations, isolation, and the burden of being the Murdaugh matriarch.
  • Both Mandy and Erin explicitly discuss the importance of feminist storytelling, women in leadership on set, and challenging toxic masculinity.
• Buster’s Humanity:
  • Buster Murdaugh, often vilified or flattened in news coverage, is treated with empathy and depth to reflect the tragedy of his losses.

Notable Quotes

• “In my Irish Catholic tradition, you do not malign the dead... it was extremely important to understand what were the circumstances that led to all of these people doing all these things.” – Erin Lee Carr (31:41)
• “Women in women first... we wanted to really think about how this show was made because it’s so masculine. There’s so much toxic masculinity.” – Erin Lee Carr (42:55)

---

8. Channeling Grief into Justice and Storytelling (45:16 - 51:03)

• Personal Motivations:
  • Mandy and Erin speak openly about their own experiences with loss (Mandy’s brother, Erin’s father) and how grief informs their drive for justice and truth-telling.
• Emotional Truth in Narratives:
  • Key scene: Mandy’s character delivers a speech at Stephen's memorial, finally linking her own family loss to her mission for others—a moment that reflects reality even if dramatized.
  • Both women argue that talking about grief, not avoiding it, is more healing.

Notable Quotes

• “My grief turned into gratitude… sometimes the memory of these people can push you forward; you’re doing it for them, too.” – Erin Lee Carr (47:19)
• “I want people grieving a loss like that to know that they aren’t alone and that they too can channel their grief into something really powerful.” – Mandy Matney (51:03)

---

9. Journalism and Justice for Stephen Smith (Final Thoughts, 51:03 - end)

• Critical Clarifications:
  • The show dramatizes aspects of the “Buster rumors” for narrative reasons and reiterates that Buster has denied involvement, no suspects named, and the case remains unresolved.
• Call to Action:
  • The team hopes the series will reignite interest and encourage anyone with information to come forward: “That is all we’ve ever wanted for Sandy Smith, for her to have answers.” – Mandy Matney (51:50)

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• “She’s my little sweetheart. She deserves to eat organic.”
  – Erin Lee Carr (as Stephen) [04:52]

• “People are so much more than how they died.”
  – Mandy Matney (03:54, recounting Erin)

• “Addiction explains everything and excuses nothing.”
  – Erin Lee Carr (28:57, quoting her late father)

• “You just want whoever’s playing Stephen to give him justice, you know, the person he was. It matched perfectly.”
  – Sandy Smith (17:48)

• “In this show, it was extremely important to understand what were the circumstances that led to all of these people doing all these things. And addiction is one of those things.”
  – Erin Lee Carr (31:41)

• “My grief turned into gratitude… sometimes, the memory of these people can push you forward.”
  – Erin Lee Carr (47:19)

• “I want people grieving a loss like that to know they aren’t alone and that they too can channel their grief into something really powerful.”
  – Mandy Matney (51:03)

---

Notable Segment Timestamps

• Introduction & setup: 00:04 – 05:34
• Director Erin Lee Carr on research & values: 05:34 – 11:47
• Smith family’s struggle: 11:47 – 13:19
• Erin Lee Carr on queer identity and Stephen: 13:19 – 14:25
• Set design as emotional truth: 14:42 – 15:40
• Sandy Smith’s reflections: 17:33 – 21:33
• Addiction and cycles of trauma: 25:30 – 33:52
• Maggie’s interiority & show’s feminist approach: 33:52 – 45:16
• Grief and storytelling: 45:16 – 51:03
• Closing & call to action: 51:03 – end

---

Conclusion

This episode powerfully underscores how thoughtful storytelling—rooted in empathy, rigorous research, and personal investment—can humanize victims, confront systems that fail them, and inspire the pursuit of justice. By focusing on Stephen Smith’s lived experience, the complexities of the Murdaugh family, and the lived grief of survivors, Mandy Matney and Erin Lee Carr challenge the conventions of true crime while inviting listeners to be part of a movement for accountability.

If you care about justice for Stephen Smith, visit justiceforsteven.com or send tips to SLED at tipssled.se.gov.

---

For more behind-the-scenes insight and future discussions—including with Patricia Arquette about portraying Maggie—subscribe and stay tuned to the "Murdaugh: Death in the Family" official podcast.

Transcript

[Mandy Matney]

Welcome back to the Murdoch Death in the Family official podcast. I'm Mandy Matney, creator of the Murdoch Murders podcast, now known as True Sunlight Podcast. Today with my co host, journalist Liz Farrell, who also has been covering the Murdoch story since 2019, we are going behind the scenes with both director Aaron Lee Carr and the amazing real life Sandy Smith, who has been fighting for justice in her son Steven's unsolved 2015 homicide for over 10 years. And that is the first thing that I want to tell you about the real Stephen Smith case. It is still unsolved and we are begging anyone with information on Stephen's death to contact the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division immediately. So, first up today on the podcast, we are joined by Erin Lee Carr, director of episode five of Murdoch Death in the Family, which takes one of the most heartbreaking and unresolved cases connected to the murdaugh story, the 2015 unsolved homicide of Stephen Smith. Rather than speculate on what happened the night of Stephen's death, Aaron Lee Carr chose to highlight Stephen's life as a young gay man living in the Bible Belt and still finding joy in being himself and love amongst his family, specifically his mother, Sandy, and his twin sister, Stephanie. If you're familiar with Aaron's work, you know she is one of the most respected documentary filmmakers of our time. With powerful projects on Hulu and other streamers, such as two of my favorites, at the Heart of Gold, Inside the USA Gymnastics Scandal in Mommy Dead and Dearest, which balance tough truths with deep compassion for victims. Aaron brings that same care and creativity to Steven's story, not just in exploring the unanswered questions around his death and Hampton Lipton county, but also who Steven was as a person and why his life mattered. In the fall of 2021, David and I were inundated with offers from various production companies that all had one thing in common. They wanted me to sign exclusive materials contracts for the reporting that I had accumulated over the past two years at that point. And they wanted to effectively shut me down because they saw me as competition. This was a time when the Murdoch story needed someone willing to call out the potential coverups and put pressure on law enforcement to do the right thing. The producers were aggressive, telling us that we had to sign onto their projects now or never. They made weird threats. They interfered with my sources and my relationships, and they aligned themselves with people online who seemed way too happy to attack me. But I'll never forget Liz telling me one day that the podcast was the documentary, and she told me to focus on that. And I did. I was reporting on the case in real time, which at the time was not the way true crime podcasts tended to work. Usually they focused on stories with a beginning, middle and end. And here we were with just a never ending middle. But we knew it was good and we knew it was necessary. I truly believe that without the podcast and without our army of listeners, Alec Murdoch would probably not be in prison for life. But not everyone who was interested in the podcast, in my reporting, was ruthless and self interested. Out of the fray came Aaron Lee Carr and Michael Fuller. I knew right away that we were on the same wavelength, that we had the same values, that they cared about the story in the same way I did. We had no idea at the time, or even in the years after if the project that we envisioned would actually happen. But we absolutely had faith in Aaron and Michael. If a TV series about the Murdaughs was meant to be, then it was only meant to be in their hands. And I know that this comes across in the product that they created, especially in episode five, which explores the life of Stephen Smith, not the death. As Aaron says, people are so much more than how they died. You can feel Stephen's vitality in everything that's been lost to the Smith family from the very beginning of this episode. Here, Stephen is having dinner with his mother, Sandy, and his sister Stephanie.

[Sandy Smith]

And Stephen says. He says, try this new biscuit I made.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

No, Mama, I had one, too.

[Sandy Smith]

You did not. It was for his damn cat.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

She's my little sweetheart. She deserves to eat organic.

[Sandy Smith]

Me or the cat, Mama?

[Stephen Smith]

Of course the cat.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

I knew it.

[Liz Farrell]

I knew it, Mama.

[Rhoda Griffiths]

I'm sorry.

[Sandy Smith]

It's all right. It's all right.

[Mandy Matney]

Where's the party tonight?

[Stephen Smith]

Buford.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

So how's your mystery man? Said I wouldn't kiss him tail, but he is taking me fishing in Key West. Oh, wow.

[Liz Farrell]

Maybe I'll catch a big one.

[Sandy Smith]

Okay.

[Rhoda Griffiths]

Gross.

[Hugh]

I had to.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

No, you didn't go hanging fruit.

[Stephen Smith]

No.

[Mandy Matney]

I spoke with Aaron a few weeks before Murdoch Death in the Family premiered about how she first came to learn about the Murdoch story.

[Interviewer]

Aaron.

[Stephen Smith]

Yo.

[Interviewer]

It's so good to see you. How are you?

[Aaron Lee Carr]

I'm rocking. We are. You know, the show's about to come out and. Yeah. I'm so excited.

[Interviewer]

I am, too. This is your first scripted series, correct?

[Aaron Lee Carr]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

So, first question. You have built a career as a documentarian known for telling complicated and riveting true crime stories, from Gypsy Rose to Sherri Papini. What drew you into the Murdoch story back in 2021, you know, everyone was.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

Sending me your reporting saying, have you heard of Mandy Matney? Do you know what's going down in the South? This is crazy. This feels like you should do it. I got not one, not five, not 15. I got about 20 texts about it. So I am lucky that I've made so many films for hbo, Netflix, Hulu and Peacock. And when something scary and terrible happens, people look in their phones and they say, I'm gonna contact Erin Le Carr about this. So I think out of kind of maybe any story that's come out in the last five years, I was contacted so much about this one. And, you know, what I like to do and think about is abuses of power and what happens and how these things can be undone. And especially since there was a death of a young woman and ultimately the death of Maggie and Paul, as well as a sort of mysterious death of Gloria Satterfield, There was a lot to think about. And so that' I just knew I wanted to do something, but I knew that there were a lot of documentary units on the ground. And it's something like I like to call as like a snake pit.

[Interviewer]

Right?

[Aaron Lee Carr]

You don't wanna jump into the snake pit, especially you don't wanna jump late. Cause you will get bitten. So I just said, I just don't think I'm the right person, even though I am a documentary filmmaker, to tell that story. I think we need to do it as scripted. I want to know what happened inside that house. And we don't have footage that shows that. And so let's think about it, research it for years and make that.

[Interviewer]

How was your research process different for this project that's scripted versus all of your documentaries?

[Aaron Lee Carr]

Well, for one thing, there was such a wealth of material with your podcast. And I remember I was living in D.C. at the time and I would just kind of be going about my daily life and just listening to you and listening to you and listening to you and understanding because you were making it as the case was unfolding. And so it's very rare that you get that kind of real time access to something that's happening. And some of it was just like complete unknowns. You know, we were not sure for a long time if Alex Murdoch was going to get charged for what we thought he did. And so it was incredible to have this sort of wealth of material that showed what it looked like at every moment. We started making this before the trial happened. And so we were so obsessed with this. And even if there would have Been a plea deal or anything like that. There was enough to make it. So it was the most incredible crazy research process. Process. I wanted to know everything about everything so that I could work with the showrunner, Michael D. Fuller, who is the co creator of the show, but really the beating heart of the show. And I would say you don't need me for a lot of the scripted stuff. You've been doing this for a really long time. But I want to know almost everything about this in order to supply you with the details so that we can get it as accurate as humanly possible. So for the people out there that know everything. No, I'm gonna do cherries for them. Like to get that. Even the most die hard of people, they will be like, believe they did that. Just like it happened. And so research, even though it's not like the sexiest of roles, that's really what I felt like I could really take on and help in the process.

[Interviewer]

Several of the actors have mentioned your amazing binder that you created that was about this thick, pretty big. How long did you spend on that and what. What did you do for that?

[Aaron Lee Carr]

Oh, my God. I love a research binder. I'm sorry to the trees, but it was all the police reports, all of the text messages, all the social media. Each family member had its own profile and understanding, taking from the variety of books that had taken place, namely also your book. And what is every single detail we know about Maggie Murdock? Right. There is not an insane amount of material out there, but we want to talk to this person to see if there are underreported aspects of it. You were able to connect me with people that knew her, that I was able to connect off the record with, but ultimately really put all of these intense, beautiful details about a human being. Because we are so much more than our own death. We are so much more than our own worst action. And so that's really what was about. And so, you know, the binder was really for the writers. I got to be in the writers room and help and participate. But then when the actors caught wind of it, they. Yeah, they wanted it too.

[Interviewer]

I think that that's something special about this project, is the actors were so into the story as well. And like, everybody seeing, not only did they learn about their own roles, but they wanted to learn about the entire case. And many of them were organically captivated by the show, like, and by the story, I should say.

[Rhoda Griffiths]

Yeah.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

And I think that audiences can really sniff out inauthenticity and that if you are going to come to do a ripped from the Headlines about a case that is so detailed, that is so covered, you better come correct.

[Interviewer]

Right?

[Aaron Lee Carr]

And so I am so impressed by the actors because to play a real living person has enormous consequences. And I believe it's almost more difficult, right, because you have to have this skeleton. But who are you? And I remember talking to Thomas Dewey, who played Mark Tinsley, and he sort of. I had all of this research and he was like, I really want to come to my own conclusion before I start looking and talking to him and figuring it out. And there is so many different ways of doing it, but these were people that were up for the challenge, and that's what makes the show great.

[Liz Farrell]

Shortly after the boat crash, Mandy and I went to meet Sandy Smith for the first time. She gave us everything she had from the investigation, if you could even call it that, into Steven's death. It wasn't much. It was a report. And I took photos of every well worn page with my phone. Mandy and I drove home in silence. We were so stunned by how wrong law enforcement had done Sandy and her family and how little those in power were willing to make it right. When Mandy got the unredacted case file, we spent days going through it. That turned into weeks and that has turned into years. Just over and over. We listen and we read and we compare everything to whatever the newest notes we have are on the case. It was so hard listening to the interviews and seeing how this investigation basically circled the drain before disappearing altogether. Not because it had gone cold, but because the investigators simply stopped pursuing leads because people were truly fearful to say what they knew. The case file literally ends on a cliffhanger where it was clear investigators had leads on multiple potential suspects that they should have talked to, but they didn't. For years, Mandy and I have looked at the Stephen Smith case as one that needs to be solved. And though we have learned so much about who Stephen Willis, what he loved, what he hated and how he spent his days, we still came from a place of let's get this case figured out. This is why I loved being able to see this story in the hands of Erin Le Carr. Her perspective and worldview and endless empathy opened up a new window to the essence of Stephen Smith's life.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

The Stephen Smith story was and is really important to me personally. As a queer person that got to grow up in the North, I really did not have the same set of really systemic issues that a person like Steven face. If we look at the south and the world that the Murdochs created. Being a minority, whether it be a person of color or a different sort of sexual identity or as a trans person, that world is pretty difficult to live in. And Steven was a really happy guy. Like, I love that he lived his life out. He was not secretive. And so when it came to his name being connected to this family, either through rumor or something else, we knew he had to be a part of it. And we knew that we wanted to see him living his life, going to a party, looking at him in his bedroom. And so I felt like it was honor. I got to work with Alana, the writer on the episode, and we just knew we wanted to start with it. Right. We didn't want to do Steven's death. We wanted to do him in life and the things that he faced. So that was a huge motivating part of how we structured the episode.

[Interviewer]

I got very emotional when I saw Steven's room. You guys worked so hard to create just this world that he would have loved and enjoyed everything from. You guys picked out individual books and movies for the shelves. What was that process like?

[Aaron Lee Carr]

You know, we were enormously fortunate to work with some of the best set decorators and dressers that, you know, that we have in the industry, working with Amy and her team. You know, this was the type of person that Steven was, and he lived in, like, he loved fantasy books. And every single detail that you or Sandy Smith told us, we wanted the room to be a part of who he was. So when I walked into the room for the first time and I saw all these different, like, quotes and different things and the lights and the pride aspect of it. Yeah, like, it melted me. And then I even got to have that when I got to walk in with you and David. And, you know, if there's anybody that has been a solid and consistent presence for Sandy Smith and for Stephen, it is the both of you and Liz. And so we needed to honor all that you've done, but make sure that we don't just think about him as a body. We think about him as a living, breathing person that was taken from us.

[Interviewer]

And his story represents the power, like you said, the power structure that is so important for people to understand. People like the Smith family, and especially people like Stephen who are gay, just get left behind and forgotten often. And it was very important. I appreciated how important it was to you guys to tell that story. And everyone on set was just. It was just an emotional experience. I feel like being on all of the episode five Steven sets because everybody was so into it, like everyone legitimately loved who Steven was.

[Mandy Matney]

What hit me hardest during this interview was Aaron's description of walking into the recreated set of Steven. Stephen Smith's bedroom. Every book, every light, every piece was chosen to reflect who Stephen was in life, not just who he became in death. That moment underscored why this show is so different. It doesn't just dramatize crime. It humanizes the people at its center. For me, Stephen's case has always symbolized what happened when powerful systems fail vulnerable people. Hearing Erin talk about her responsibility as a queer filmmaker also added a layer of resonance. This episode isn't just about a murder mystery. It's about identity, resilience, and demanding justice for those forgotten. Right before the series was set to premiere in October 2025, I sat down with Sandy Smith to hear her thoughts on episode five, which we watched together. I wanted to share some of that conversation with. With y', all, because this show isn't just about entertainment or exploring the art of true crime storytelling. It is another avenue toward getting answers for Sandy on what happened the night that her son was taken from her.

[Interviewer]

Steven's story is now in a scripted series on Hulu. And I'm curious.

[Mandy Matney]

How did you feel when you first.

[Interviewer]

Found out and what went through your mind when Hugh found out that Stephen's story was gonna be featured on this show?

[Rhoda Griffiths]

It was very exciting, you know, and then you just want whoever's playing Stephen to give him justice, you know, the person he was. So I was super excited to wait and see who was playing his part, and it matched perfectly.

[Interviewer]

And Stephen's story's also complicated. It's hard.

[Rhoda Griffiths]

Very.

[Interviewer]

Was it scary? Like, were you a little nervous at first? I mean, I feel like for the amount of time that I've known you, there's always been people getting Steven's story wrong.

[Rhoda Griffiths]

Right.

[Interviewer]

And in this case, it's a little different because they're taking bits of truth and creatively using that to tell a story. But were you a little scared that people were gonna miss the mark and. And misunderstand Stephen's story even more?

[Rhoda Griffiths]

That's always in my mind when Stephen's story comes up. And because there's been so many stories and they've all been wrong and over.

[Interviewer]

Exaggerated, and we've always said this. Every time that Stephen's story's talked about and people are bringing his name up again, there's always the hope that that pressure will finally burst. The person where pressure breaks pipes, pressure burst. Get to the person that knows something and You've been really trying to do that for a really long time.

[Rhoda Griffiths]

Yes. And I feel like the people who know are parents now and they have children and they kind of need to put their self in my situation. As if somebody took your child's life and you want to know what happened, but you didn't tell what you knew. So you're not going to get justice because you're going to live with this the rest of your life, just like I will live with it the rest of my life.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. That is crazy to think, like, so much time has passed. It's been 10 years.

[Mandy Matney]

10 years.

[Interviewer]

On the bright side, Erin Lee Carr is the director of the episode that Steven is featured in. And she's an amazing documentarian who really knows how to do true crime. What did you think of her when you first talked to her and she was interested in Steven's story?

[Rhoda Griffiths]

Oh, I was super excited. And her demeanor and all just made her like, the right fit to be the person to do this for Stephen.

[Interviewer]

Did you notice some of the details in the episode with, like, recreating your photo with Steven? And I did.

[Rhoda Griffiths]

I got pictures and they were absolutely amazing.

[Interviewer]

And what did you think of the wonderful Ian Christensen who plays Steven?

[Rhoda Griffiths]

He's so adorable. Yeah. And they picked the right person to bring out Stephen's personality.

[Interviewer]

And Rhoda, who plays you, she's amazing.

[Rhoda Griffiths]

She's a spitfire, like I am.

[Interviewer]

What do you think Steven would think of it?

[Rhoda Griffiths]

Oh, he would be proud. Yeah, he would be so proud.

[Interviewer]

What do you like the scene of getting ready with Stephanie? Is that.

[Rhoda Griffiths]

Oh, of course. That was like a every weekend thing.

[Interviewer]

And they joked a lot in that.

[Rhoda Griffiths]

Manner and did selfies in the mirrors.

[Interviewer]

And stuff like that.

[Mandy Matney]

While the show was in production, Aaron Lee Carr and Michael D. Fuller met with Sandy Smith not just to learn more about Stephen's life, but also to learn about who she was as a woman and a mother. I spoke with Erin about what this was like for them and what it was like creating the Smith family, portrayed by Rhoda Griffiths as Sandy, Ian Christensen as Stephen, and Kelly Lamour Wilson as Stephanie.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

I think that the majority of the information I had about Stephen was about his death. And so it really was when we, when Michael and I were able to speak with Sandy Smith, who you've built such a long standing relationship with, we just got to know so much more when it comes to his laugh and what he cared about, his relationship with his sister Stephanie, you know, his relationship with his friends. What. What is it like to be A queer person in the south, you know, seeing his fabulous selfies, looking at what he was doing with his life, how, you know, he really cared about who he was gonna become. And so it was all these conversations that led to us putting in as much about him as possible. And, you know, if I had my druthers, he would have been half the episode. You know, I have to remember that the show is about the Murdaughs. And ultimately, you know, you'll see how this show feels about what happened to Steven and the Murdaugh's involvement. But also what we got to do was really spend time with Sandy on screen. And when I got to meet Rhoda, who was going to play Sandy Smith, and it was just incredible. She embodied who Sandy is in her humor, in her wit, in her sort of, like, raspiness. And, you know, like, I love a lot of things, but I love my kids the most. And I directing, even though I'm very tough lady and I wear leather pants, it was still scary. And I remember Rhoda, which was, I think, a very Sandy Smith thing. You did great today. And I said, thanks, Mom. You know, like, I needed that one, you know, and so we all sometimes just want a mom like Sandy Smith to tell us we're doing a good job. But, yeah, it was just. It was really important that we don't see, you know, Murdoch's body count. All these people died. All these people left this world. They left an indelible imprint and they left their families. And it is our job to make sure that the loss of these people are not forgotten. And I really feel that way about Maggie and Paul as well.

[Mandy Matney]

Episode 5 not only reimagined the life of Stephen Smith, it also explored the impact of the boat crash on Paul's older brother, Buster, whose name was being mentioned alongside Stephen's 2015 death. The timeline of the series has the Stephen Smith case and its connections to the Murdaugh family making headlines after the boat crash. But in real life, it wasn't until after the murders of Maggie and Paul that this happened. Yes, justice for Steven was a rally cry on social media, but from a journalist perspective, it was next to impossible to get sources on the record at the time. The unredacted case file I had was tricky. It needed to be authenticated, and, well, no one was doing that in Murdoch country. It wasn't until June 2021 when I found out that Sled had contacted Sandy not to ask her if they could help with Stephen's unsolved case, but rather to ask her for her DNA and her alibi, as if she and her family were potential suspects in Maggie and Paul's death. Liz, David, and I were all livid for Sandy and disgusted. So with Sandy's approval and the encouragement of David and Liz, I took a leap of faith and I wrote about Stephen's death and how the Murdaugh name was all over the case file. That was the catalyst to get the case looked at by Sled. And Stephen's name became known across the country and even the world. In June 2021, SLED said that they found something during the Murdoch murders investigation that made them reopen Stevens case. They have never said exactly what that was. And we'll be right back.

[Liz Farrell]

Episode five also gives us much more insight into how Ellic's addiction affected all those around him. His problem with pills shows itself in every episode, but in this one, we get to see Elec in all his sloppiness and paranoia and how the pressures from the boat crash lawsuit might have heightened an already ugly problem. Mandy and I agreed it's one thing to hear Ellick talk about his addiction to pills in the courtroom. It's another thing to watch his addiction play out on the screen.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Good morning.

[Hugh]

I just need to get coffee first.

[Rhoda Griffiths]

No, no. You knew it.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

We don't have time for that.

[Hugh]

Baby, baby, please.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Ellick, let's go. Your brother came by an hour ago and picked up the float for the festival so we can celebrate your father today.

[Stephen Smith]

Listen.

[Hugh]

Last night, I was not at my best, all right?

[Ellick Murdaugh]

No, you were not.

[Hugh]

No, I know.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Now, I thought you were busy at the office with this case, but no, that man on my couch.

[Mandy Matney]

I know.

[Stephen Smith]

Oh, no, I just.

[Hugh]

I mean, fucking Mark Tinsley's just making this whole goddamn thing a lot harder than it needs to be. That won't happen again, okay? It's just. It's been a crazy week.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Oh, it's so crazy that you. You can't pick up the phone when.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

Your son needs you.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

When I need you.

[Hugh]

That story about Buster, we're gonna make that go away.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Will that do it?

[Mandy Matney]

I will.

[Hugh]

It's gonna take a minute.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Well, everything takes a minute.

[Hugh]

Just nuzzle you. This a emergency now? You know what? My coffee. Let's just get the car and go.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Hey.

[Rhoda Griffiths]

What?

[Mandy Matney]

Hey.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

I love you.

[Rhoda Griffiths]

Baby.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Your sons love you. Please, please, please, pull yourself together.

[Hugh]

I will.

[Liz Farrell]

It's a scene that likely rings familiar for any family dealing with a loved one's substance abuse. Aaron Lee Carr herself is no stranger to addiction issues. Her father, David Carr was an influential writer and columnist who wrote about cultural issues for the New York Times. David's book, the Night of the A Reporter investigates the darkest story of his life. His Own details how his addiction to cocaine affected his career and his family. Mandy talked to Aaron about how Ellick's addiction was a character unto its own in the series.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

Addiction is greatly meaningful to me. I am lucky to have 10 years sober from alcohol and drugs. And my parents were born addicted to drugs. And so I'm somebody who broke that cycle. My father ended up up getting sober. But, yeah, I think that this case is so interesting because there's so much addiction. Addiction to money, addiction to attention, addiction to pills, addiction. Obviously, a lot of people love drinking in this real life story. And so when you're unhappy, you utilize these substances to feel normal, and then they just take over. And when we think about how this story started with Paul Murdoch drinking to the point of deep intoxication, and as a result of that killering Mallory beach in a boating accident, addiction started all of this, and it almost finished it. And so I think that we needed to take that seriously. But, you know, in talking with you, in talking with people who know the case, there was this whole thing by Dick and Jim who said he was addicted to opiates, and that's sort of what created all this stealing behavior and things like that. As my father said, addiction explains everything and excuses nothing. And that is what we have to think about. And so when we think about Alex's addiction, that's a part of the puzzle. But it's not like all these things make us do this. It's still us inside of it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And there's lots of people who are addicted to things that don't steal millions of dollars from families and kill people either.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

You know, I don't often talk about how other people raise their kids, but as somebody who studied the case, a lot of this stemmed from Alex and Maggie's inability to moderate Paul's drinking. Anyway, yes, he was a young adult and he would make his own choices, but from what we heard, you know, alcohol was just always available. And alcohol plus the sort of the anger of somebody like Paul, it's a combustible situation. He was a ticking time bomb. And it was almost certain that something like this was going to happen. And how that couldn't be seen was extremely confusing to me.

[Interviewer]

And he was extremely young, too. And that's something that I've had to sit with. I was very hard on Paul in my early days of reporting, and Now I see it so different of the way that he was raised, and he didn't have healthy ways of coping with. He wasn't taught healthy ways of coping things. And when we talk about addiction and cycle breaking, nobody ever broke the cycle in his family. It just kept going and getting worse.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

You were talking about that you were pretty hard on Paul at the start and how it's changed for you. I'm really curious about what that has been like as you've gone from these different areas of awareness.

[Interviewer]

I think it's always really important as a researcher and a journalist to know that you can be wrong about something and to be able to change your mind about people and humans and to be able to go from thinking, I thought that Paul was just a spoiled brat. I thought he was a horrible person. Two things can be true at the same time. But as I learned more and more about particularly Alex and that he was the son of an addict and a narcissist, and thinking about what his life was and what went on in his house, I just got so much more empathy for him. And the show has really changed the way that I view him as well.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

And you don't forget, like, don't be hard on yourself, because when you entered to the case, he was involved in the death of a young woman. And it felt at the time, we didn't know how remorseful he was. And so you came from this. Of. Here's this wealthy family that's trying to cover this up, right?

[Mandy Matney]

Yeah.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

And then the literal unit, unthinkable happened. How many times do we have cases where a young man is implicating the death of another? He doesn't die. You know, and so then you just have to have this whole new frame of reference. And in my Irish Catholic tradition, you do not malign the dead. You know, you can have feelings. You can have private feelings about it. But in this show, it was extremely important to understand what were the circumstances that led to all of these people doing all these things. And addiction is one of those things that really created all of this. It's like the snowball, right?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, absolutely. And domestic abuse in its many forms is another theme that's heavily explored in the show. Why was it important for you to tell Maggie's story as a cautionary tale?

[Aaron Lee Carr]

You know, we did a lot of research, and we did not find evidence that there was physical abuse inside the home. What I know through all of the work I've done, whether it be through the Larry Nassar case that I did or Gypsy Rose, there's emotional abuse that really breaks you.

[Mandy Matney]

Yeah.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

And you aren't sure who you are anymore. And so I think that there is a bad faith reading of Maggie where she just kind of went along with everything. But when you look at what she had to deal with on a daily basis when it came to Ellic and how he was doing things and manipulating and stealing and the infidelity that has been put out there, you know, you might feel trapped in that house. And I remember somebody telling me that she hated Mozel, Maggie hated Mozell. It was out in the woods, it was in the dark and she felt really isolated. So that's something I always tried to think about when we were in Maggie scenes. What is it like to be pulled and ripped from your life? You have these boys, but you're now at this place like Mozel, isolated from others. You wish you lived in a different place. What is it like to be her? And everything kept getting worse. And when you're a mom. I'm not a mom, but I'm friends with a lot of moms. When somebody is trying to attack your babies, you come out and you protect them. And so that, that's what we got to see Patricia Arquette do in the show and really stand up and be a character and a person that was not just related to Alec Murdoch, but who is and was complicated and dealt with so many things.

[Liz Farrell]

In episode five, we continue to see Maggie's frustration with Eleg as Paul's criminal case and elegant Buster's civil case connected to the boat crash and Mallory Beach's death weigh increasingly heavy on the family. Now they were facing even more pressure from outside the Murdoch bubble as the community began demanding accountability for Steven Stephen Smith's death too. In this scene, Alec berates Maggie for seeking help for Buster from his older brother Randy.

[Hugh]

You talk to my brother.

[Mandy Matney]

What?

[Interviewer]

Hugh?

[Hugh]

You run into Randy asking for fucking help?

[Ellick Murdaugh]

What if I did?

[Hugh]

What if you did, huh? You're pathetic, you know that?

[Ellick Murdaugh]

I'm pathetic?

[Hugh]

Fucking stupid.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

You think I want. How do you think it feels to have to go to my brother in law for what my husband should be doing?

[Hugh]

Don't start with me about what I should be doing.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

How do you think it feels, son, to watch my son being chased around and called a murderer by mop? No wonder I went to Randy.

[Hugh]

I am fucking Buster's father, okay? And I will handle anything.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

You fucking hear me?

[Rhoda Griffiths]

I will.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

Anything that needs handling.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Since when, huh? You've been telling me you're going to handle Paul's situation.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

For years.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

Now, here we are. I can't even go to the Dollar Store being humiliated.

[Rhoda Griffiths]

That's right.

[Hugh]

You don't spend enough, I don't buy you enough. Hey, your bags, your purses.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

You can distract yourself, but look at you, right?

[Aaron Lee Carr]

What?

[Ellick Murdaugh]

But don't worry, Daddy will take it.

[Hugh]

You're a piece of fucking work.

[Rhoda Griffiths]

You know what?

[Ellick Murdaugh]

I'm the only one keeping this family together.

[Hugh]

All you fucking do is you just sit there and you just blame and you dish it out and you fucking moan and you groan and you judge.

[Ellick Murdaugh]

You're God damn right I can blame. And you're God damn right I judge. What kind of man would let this happen to his family?

[Rhoda Griffiths]

Hmm?

[Liz Farrell]

Though the trial of Ellich Murdaugh lasted six weeks, it was almost one dimensional. Yes, we learned that he was claiming to be addicted to opiates. Yes, we learned that there was an ultimatum in the Boat Crush civil case and that Ellich was going to be forced to give his list of financial accounts to Mark Tinsley. And yes, we found out more about what was going on between Elec and his partners and co workers at pmped on the day of the murders. Oh, and we learned that Maggie was feeling the burden of the criminal and civil cases, that she wanted it all to go away or have a resolution. All of those facts, though, are standalone pieces of information, even when combined in service of a jury considering a verdict. Murdoch Death in the Family shows us what those standalone facts look like when they're all interconnected and how one fact influences another influences another. So many of us already know the details of the Murdoch story, but we don't actually know what that story looked like behind closed doors. This show has taken those facts we learned during the trial and in our reporting those ingredients and given us an imagined version of an emotional truth, and not just of the story, but of Maggie herself and how she navigated life as a Murdoch among Murdaughs. During the trial, we were struck, well, by so many things, but especially by how Alex struggled to describe Maggie as anything but a woman. A girl, a mom. Everything was in the context of that.

[Stephen Smith]

You know, she was such a lady, such a feminine person, a girl. But then she had two boys, and I mean, she didn't grow up in the swamp and in the country riding four wheelers and hunting and fishing and. And, I mean, she changed everything. She became a boy's mom. I mean, her life became ball and riding four wheelers and doing those things. Now, don't get me wrong, she was still 100% girl. And you heard Marion said, I mean, she loved to do those things with her nieces, but, I mean, she threw herself into her boy's life. You know, she never took not working for granted. I mean, she. She might not have worked, but I promise you, she worked and she worked make sure me and Paul and Buster had everything. You know, she. She wanted a big family, and pregnancy just didn't suit her. Her pregnancies were so hard. I would leave her in the mornings and she'd be sick. I'd come home and check on her and she'd be sick. I'd come back at the end of the day and she'd be sick. I mean, she was so sick all the time with both those boys. And when we had Pawpaw, Maggie got in trouble and Pawpaw got in trouble, and this pregnancy didn't suit her, so we decided that, you know, we would just have the two boys. And, you know, I just think how hard it was on her just made her love those boys so much more. And she did. But she was the kind of person, Maggie, you know, she could put on the most elegant ball gown and go to the Governor's mansion and hang out with, you know, the most affluent people, whatever. Or she could come down to, you know, she could go to a food bank in Hampton or Walterburg and fit in. Everybody at both places would say when she left and that Maggie, she's a good one. She's just a special person.

[Liz Farrell]

To Alec, it seemed like the only thing he knew about his wife was that she was his wife and the mother of his sons and that she occasionally looked nice. It was hard for people, even ones who were in the Murdoch circle circle, to find any other word to describe Maggie except nice. As if Maggie were just a silent background actor in the play of Alec Murdoch's life. Erin Lee Carr's research, though, went deeper. She and the writers were able to find a character in Maggie Murdock that honored the aspects of her life that she valued most and that frustrated her the most.

[Interviewer]

What motivated you to keep digging deeper for aspects of Maggie's personality that a lot of the media ignored?

[Aaron Lee Carr]

Maggie was an enigma to me when I started. I think that there is so much out there about Paul and Ellic and this just sort of so much material. And Maggie, it felt like very few people knew her and knew her well. And you have the biographical. You know, she opened that store in Hampton. She, you know, like, loved her boys, she loved to read Southern magazine in the duck blind, things like that. But one of the reasons why we wanted to do the show is to dig deeper inside this family dynamic and what it means to be the matriarch in a family like the Murdaughs. And then when we got Patricia Arquette, which I remember, I'm not a religious person, but I remember praying one night and being like, please, God, let Patricia say yes. You know, like, that just. That just lends so much insane credibility to the show. And I think in another person's hands, she just would get, you know, largely eradicated by the fantastical nature of Alec Murdoch's quality. But, yeah, I'm a strong feminist. Literally, all my is about women. And so I was the person that's like, what would Maggie be thinking about that? How do we do this? What is her journey? What's going like that? And I felt really excited because in the episode I directed, there is a very strong Mandy storyline and a very strong Maggie Murdoch, and really getting to bring those forward.

[Interviewer]

It's no secret I am a strong feminist, too. And shocking. One thing on set that I noticed is how many women we had in leadership roles throughout the series. How do you think that that made a difference in the. That the series is portrayed?

[Aaron Lee Carr]

I just do want to give credit to Michael D. Fuller, who was like, women, Women in women first. You know, he. I think a lot of people would want to stack the team from dudes from the South. Right. And Michael really wanted different people with different experiences. And our writers room was split, if not more women than men, which I thought was so incredible. Yeah. I think that being around women in set situations, I think there is more nurturing, I think there is more caring. I think there is discussion about, like, what is this looking like, how people are doing? Checking in. Yeah. I primarily work with women, so it was very typical for me. But when you think the Murdoch show, you would think it was made by all men, and it's not true. And I hope that audiences feel some of that really careful thoughtfulness. You don't need to be a woman to do that. I think Michael did that quite well. But, yeah, like, we wanted to really think about how this show was made because it's so masculine. There's so much toxic masculinity. And you need to come from a place of understanding toxic masculinity to put that in the show and have it be visible, relatable. Interesting.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, absolutely. And speaking of that, Buster was portrayed throughout the series in a way that was never really portrayed of him, ever. And that's with empathy and with depth. Why did you And Michael take that route with Buster.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

I often try to think about the day after Buster's personal experience of where he was notified the night before that his mother and brother were killed. I think there are few people on earth that knows what that feels like. And Buster grew up in a family where certain things were done a certain way. And, you know, he sort of was a go along to get along guy, from what my research says. And so understanding the picture because we are years out. Maggie and Paul were murdered in 2021. We're in 2025. As we record this, we just have to think about what that must have felt like and how everything changed. And so it behooves us, while we make a show that is about true crime and about all these things, to remember that he lost people.

[Interviewer]

Absolutely.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

It's important to remember that he lost people and that, you know, we as the filmmakers cannot ever forget that that's what actually happened here. We are always very clear on this happened to real people. And we hope the show is extremely reflective of that.

[Mandy Matney]

I was starstruck the moment I met Aaron in August of 2021 to discuss a potential collaboration. Over the last four years, that collaboration blossomed into a meaningful friendship as we partnered to bring the Murdoch Death in the Family script, production and release to life. Erin and I share an understanding of grief and loss while employing an impressive ability to be resilient in the face of internal and external challenges, especially where dismantling the patriarchy is concerned. It has truly been an honor to work alongside such a visionary talent.

[Interviewer]

Empathy always shines through your storytelling, whether it's in documentaries or now in scripted. And you also wrote a book that I love so much about the loss of your father, the amazing journalist as David Carr. How did your experience with grief, particularly with the loss of your father, impact the way that you told this story?

[Aaron Lee Carr]

I think for a lot of people, and I'm interested in your opinion on this, there is a before and there is an after. There's the before of the death of this person and after and what happens. And I was so psychologically, emotionally, physically changed from the death of my father. We were raised by him as a single dad, my twin and I. And when he died, it felt like everything broke. And I didn't. I didn't. I didn't know what was gonna happen. I knew that I was a storyteller. I knew that I could be good at what I did. But, you know, there was. He died incredibly suddenly, you know, at the New York Times. It's a Crazy, crazy story. And I just remember, like, saying, I'm done. Right. I can't do this anymore. And one of the things my father was. Was ambitious and was an extremely hard worker. And so I said, okay, I'm gonna try this for a couple of years. I'm gonna go back to my work. I'm gonna, like, dive deep into it, and maybe I will be okay on the other side. And so grief permeates every aspect of my life. But in this incredible way, my grief turned into gratitude. And I just was like, I had this really cool dad. I've had amazing people in my life, and I am so proud that I had, you know, this person as my father. And so when I think about the death of other people and grief is so much a part of my work, I also think about the celebration of that life. And so my dad was an incredible journalist, formerly a crack addict. He lived this crazy life. So when I think about, you know, what would he think of my life right now? He'd be like, you're doing it, Dolly. You're doing it. And so, yeah, I don't. I mean, I don't know how much this relates to the Beautiful Murdoch podcast, but sometimes the memory of these people can push you forward. Cause you're like, yeah, I'm doing it for me, but I'm also doing it for them.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, absolutely. And I think grief helps. I think experiencing a loss like that helps you understand the people who you're talking about in stories and the victims who are also suffering from grief. You just understand it in a way that's different. I don't know. I can't explain it. I used to think of my life as before and after my brother died, but now it's been so long. And now I just think that that was my entire. My entire childhood, you know, like. But I do remember, even I will say my childhood was divided to before and after.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

And I also wonder. I mean, Buster became the young man whose family died.

[Mandy Matney]

Yeah.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

You know, and that's something I'm sure, as you grew up, and everyone would do, whisper, oh, Mandy's brother died. Oh, don't ask about it. Things like that. And so when we think about survivors of unexpected loss, like you both are, you have more in common, I think, than we would realize. It's like, you know, how do we treat ourselves and not let these things define us.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And also honor them. I think a lot of people just want to tiptoe around death and do not know how to talk about it. And I feel like Those of us who have endured it. I'm like, I wanna talk about it, actually. I wanna, I wanna talk about my brother. I wanna talk about how has death impacted my life. It's okay if you ask me about that and it actually feels better to talk be whispered about. That's Mandy, whose brother died.

[Mandy Matney]

And speaking of grief, I have to share my favorite scene of episode five. In the scene, Mandy's character attends a memorial for Stephen Smith and Sandy asks her to speak.

[Sandy Smith]

I appreciate y' all being here, you know, sharing your stories and your pictures. And I just can't tell you what it means to my family because it's been six years of no answers. But this girl right here, her article about Stephen's murder is already shining a light on this case. And it's why we're here remembering Steven today. Mandy, Mandy, honey, get on up here. Tell these fun folks about yourself. Come on, come on here.

[Mandy Matney (as herself in speech)]

Um, I don't really talk about this a lot, but I. I lost my brother Michael when I was a kid, so I guess all I want to do is, is try to help people, try to help them get answers where it might seem like there just aren't any.

[Aaron Lee Carr]

But.

[Mandy Matney (as herself in speech)]

It'S not about me. This is about Stephen and his memory and us trying to get to the bottom of what really happened to him.

[Mandy Matney]

In reality. I spoke at several events advocating for justice in Steven's case case, but I never mentioned the loss of my brother in any of those speeches because I was always worried that it would make me sound self centered. Britney Snow fought for this scene and the speech about my brother. She read my book and knew how important that loss was to my character and my purpose to help people like Sandy Smith. This is a great example of emotional truth because in reality, the loss of my brother is always on the tip of my tongue. I want people grieving a loss like that to know that they aren't alone and that they too can channel their grief into something really powerful. Just like Aaron Lee Carr did with her grief. I love that this scene shared that message, that people who suffer enormous loss in life can use it for good. I think that the loss of my brother made me fearless in a lot of ways to chase stories that most people wouldn't. I will never stop looking for answers in the Stephen Smith case. And I hope that those of you listening who also care about getting answers in the Stephen Smith case will check out the True Sunlight playlist on Stephen that takes you through every step of the investigation. In episode five, there's a conversation between Sandy and Mandy where Sandy told Mandy about the origin of the Buster rumors from the case files. We want to be clear with our audience, due to the sensitivities surrounding this case, that that conversation was made up for dramatic and narrative purposes. Buster has absolutely denied having any involvement in Stephen Smith's death and we want to be clear about that. No charges have been levied and no suspects have been named. The frustrating part of the reality here in the Stephen Smith story is that there is no conclusion. We don't know what happened to Steven and we don't know why the Murdaugh name came up so many times in those case files. We don't know why his case went cold in 2016 or what prompted Sled to open his case from something discovered from their investigation into the Murdaugh murders. We understand how hard it is to tell an inconclusive narrative on screen, so we really appreciate the fact that Aaron and Michael found a way to tell Steven's story in this series, and we hope that it reignites interest surrounding this case and hopefully maybe even help it get solved. That is all we've ever wanted for Sandy Smith, for her to have answers. To learn more about how you can help advocate for justice in Stephen's case, visit justiceforsteven.com all information about Stephen's unsolved homicide can be sent to tipssled.se.gov next week we will welcome the amazing and impressive Patricia Arquette who helped get this series made with her interest in portraying Maggie as we dive deeper into everything Murdoch and beyond. We hope that you're enjoying the original series Murdoc Death in the Family and don't forget to like, share, subscribe and leave a comment or five star rating to give our creators, cast and crew the praise that they deserve. And don't miss Murdoch Death in the Family now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney. The Murdoch Death in the Family official podcast is a Luna Shark and USG Audio Production. Executive producers include Mandy Matney, Liz Farrell, David Mo Moses for Luna Shark and Josh Block for USG Audio. Sound design and audio engineering by Jamie Hoffman, Mike Bader and Grace Hills. Production support for USG Audio by Josh Lalonghi Special thanks to Kate Thomas, Beth Braden, Jenny Adams and Sam Berlin. To learn more about this story and others, visit lunasharkmedia.com.