B (4:46)

Oh, no.

C (4:48)

Were they shot? Were they shot? Yes, they were shot. Yes. So within minutes, okay, the. The home, 722 North Elm Drive in Beverly Hills, it was filled with police officers, investigators, sirens. It was chaos. This home, it wasn't just a house. It was a freaking mansion. A sign of wealth. It's a big, beautiful, like, seven bedroom, 9,000 square foot Spanish style estate sitting on a beautifully manicured lawn, surrounded by palm trees. It had like a red tiled roof, white stucco. It gave like old Hollywood glamour, an obvious sign of like, money, you know what I'm saying? Now, to the outside world, when you're looking at a home like that, you're like, that's the American dream. But to the Menendez family, it was home. Inside the home, the sheer scale of horror, horror would shock, like, even veteran officers. The scene was very disturbing, okay? One of the investigators said, quote, I've seen a lot of homicides. I. But nothing quite as brutal. Blood, flesh, skulls. It would be hard to describe, especially Jose, as resembling a human that you would recognize. That's how bad it was. Jose Menendez, a powerful entertainment executive, the patriarch of this, you know, seemingly perfect family, was found in the living room. Shotgun blast to the face, okay? His wife, Kitty Menendez, she was once a beauty queen and was a homemaker. She was laying on the sofa, fatally shot. When investigators looked further, they saw that she had, like, multiple wounds after she had been already killed. And this was, like, the case for Jose as well. And it seemed like, you know, it could have been to make it appear like a mob hit or maybe there were actually more than one person involved in the shooting. But there were multiple wounds, and it was very intense. Like I said, the scene, it was chaotic. Officers, forensic teams, detectives were all coming inside, filling the home. And the question on everyone's mind was, like, who would do this? Why? Was it a robbery? Was it a professional hit? Why in this, like, fancy schmancy area would something like this happen? You know, to investigators, the Menendez family, at least on the surface, they appeared untouchable, living a life of pristine privilege. And this kind of violence just, like, did not happen to people like them, or so they thought. But, you know, as the night wore on, as the days wore on, investigators looked closer, and their, you know, the focus of their suspicions would shift away from, like, an act of random violence, a mob hit, like the Suns had suggested, and they started to question whether it was done by the people closest to them. So the murders were all over the media. And, like, the following hours and days after the murder had happened, all eyes were on Lyle and Eric Menendez. You know, they were just two young men. They were only 18 and 21, and now suddenly orphaned in, like, the most brutal way imaginable. And their demeanor, I mean, it seemed to fit the description of grieving sons, the frantic 911 call, the tearful interviews with friends, family, and even the police. They would speak publicly to the media of just, like, sharing how sad, upset, the shock, just sadness, everything, you know, and everyone who was watching the newser in the Beverly Hills area was just coming in showing their love and support for the boys who had lost their. Their family, their parents. One of the Parents memorial services was held in Los Angeles. It was for friends and family in the industry, the family, they would hold another memorial service in Princeton, also for family. But the one in Los Angeles, it was very. It was very lavish. Eric and Lyle, you know, they came dressed in their finest suits and appeared, like completely harsh, heartbroken. I mean, it did raise a brow or two when they arrived, like over an hour late. But they were grieving, so it was understandable. At the service, Lyle got up and he spoke, you know, kind words about his parents. I guess his voice was cracking, like, barely making it through. It was said that Eric was too upset to speak in front of everyone at the service. But either way, like, everyone there embraced them and just felt awful for what had happened. I mean, it was also tragic. But then, you know, something started to feel off. Some would say a lot of the times when people are grieving, they can become quiet, start to withdraw. But for Lyle and Eric, their grief seemed different. You know, after the murders, the brothers seem to celebrate, you could say, by going on a shopping spree. And it wasn't just like small purchases made. I mean, it was a big spending spree that seemed to raise a lot, not a lot, some red flags. A few days after the murder and over, like, the. The following months. The brothers spent money. They spent money. Lyle, he had purchased a $64,000 Porsche. Do you say Porsche or Porsche, let me know. But he got a new car, a fancy and a nice one. And Eric got a new Jeep Wrangler. They went out, they bought Rolex watches, designer clothes, expensive jewelry. They flew first class, going on some luxurious trips. They went to Vegas, they did some high stake gambling. There was a very famous moment where the brothers got courtside seats at a basketball game between the New York Knicks and the Chicago Bulls. Basketball, maybe you've seen it, maybe you haven't, but this game would, like, be forever remembered in a trading card from 1990 featuring one of the Knicks players. In the trading card, you can actually see the Menendez brothers sitting courtside. Yeah. And you're like, oh, that's them. They were there. There was also another card that from the same game that surfaced either way. It was like their parents had died at their sitting courtside. It was just like, okay, okay, that's fine. But it didn't stop there. The brothers, they invested in different business opportunities. For example, lyle, he spent $550,000 buying a restaurant in Princeton, which he named Mr. Buffalo. And for Eric, he attempted to invest $40,000 in a concert promotion company, which ended up being a con. But it didn't matter because, like, you know, they were finally doing the things that they always wanted to do without anyone stopping them. So obviously, the detectives are paying attention, and this behavior seemed deeply, you know, suspicious. Why would two grief stricken young men just go all out like this? Meanwhile, investigators found some inconsistencies back at the crime scene.

B (12:24)

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C (12:34)

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C (14:06)

Now. The Menendez mansion was heavily secure at the time. Like, the family had one of the best alarm systems on the market at the time of the murders. And the alarm, the system, the alarm systems were disarmed and there was like no sign of forced entry into the home. Even though the place inside the home, like, it looked ransacked, there was like, very few valuables that were actually missing. I mean, inside there was a ton of expensive stuff. But it was odd that really nothing was taken. So investigators were starting to think, like, the house was staged to make it look like it was a home invasion. Hmm. So investigators, they're going around and questioning people, you know, people who knew the family. And they found that Jose, I mean, he did have a lot of enemies. Like, people really did not. Like, this guy at his place of work, he was said to be very cruel. He would berate people. He was just an asshole, and people told the truth. But there was this one guy that was like, jose and Kitty's friends. And this guy randomly tells police. He's like, I kind of have a feeling like the sons were involved. He had no proof or anything, Just a feeling. He said that something always seemed off between the boys and their parents. That's all he could say. But that was interesting, you know? So the police then discovered something odd. Apparently, the brothers had called in a computer expert on August 31, which was, like, 11 days after the murder, to come in and erase files that were in Kitty's computer. Lyle had hired a computer expert to come over and, like, erase the computer files that had the new family will on it, which was believed to have, like, left the brothers out. Now, he. Lyle, like, did not want those files to be found or retrieved. So this guy comes over and he's like, okay, I'll do it. Whatever. This guy ends up going to the police and tells them about this little situation. So investigators are investigating. Then, October 31st, Eric, he seems to be, like, really struggling. He was struggling with anxiety and stress after the death of his parents. So he went to go see a Los Angeles psychiatrist named Dr. Ozil. Now, Eric had seen Dr. Ozil before, so he was, like, a familiar face in, you could say, this time of need. So Eric and Dr. Ozil, they met that afternoon and decided. First they met at the office, and then they decided, like, to go on a walk around the Beverly Hills area. So Eric was, like, talking with Dr. Ozil about his depression and that he wanted to end his life. Just stuff like that. Like, he was really struggling. So the two of them, they're walking back to Dr. Ozil's office. But before they return, I guess Eric just stops. He leaned. It was said he leaned against a parking meter and just straight up said, we did it. We killed our parents. I was like, okay. So Dr. Ozil's like, okay, let's go back to my office. So they go back to Dr. Ozil's office, and that's where he's asking more questions. Like why? Why? Tell me more. And Eric started to share like some of the darker secrets going on in the home. But first Eric went on to explain like a little bit more about what led to the murders vaguely. So Eric was telling Dr. Ozil that he had watched this miniseries on TV and it was about the Billionaire Boys Club. Now the Billionaire Boys Club was a real life crime story and a TV miniseries that aired in 1987 and it was about like wealthy young men in Los Angeles and they committed murder for financial gain. And Eric expressed that he kind of felt inspired in a way. So after watching this little miniseries, he then went to his brother and like shared his belief that their parents were going to like take them out of their will and they would no longer be receiving an inheritance. So this got to the both of them, both brothers talking about like how terrible their father was, how he dominated their lives, and that they should get rid of him, kill him. It sounds so simple, but I guess that's it really was because they said that the brothers, they thought they should kill Kitty, their mom, because like they couldn't kill their father without killing her too. And like it was like, oh, okay. But this is like allegedly what Eric told Dr. Ozil. So the brothers like talked about it. They decided, okay, we're gonna kill our parents. So Eric is talking to Dr. Ozilo and he's like trying to explain. They had tried to like purchase guns at different locations, but they weren't having much luck. So Eric and Lyle, they ended up at a Big 5 Sporting Goods store in San Diego where they used a stolen ID to purchase two Mossberg 12 gauge shotguns. The brothers then set up their alibis to make it seem like they had been at the movies. And this place, the Taste of la, it's like a restaurant type thing in la. I've heard of it. I don't know what it is. Is it a restaurant? It's like a restaurant type thing, you other in food or something. Anyways, that was going to be their alibi. So after shooting their parents, they gathered up the shotgun casings. Then they drove up Mulholland Drive where they threw the shotguns down into a nearby canyon. And then after they took their bloody clothes and shoes and they tossed them in a dumpster at a gas station along with like the, the shell casings. Eric explained to Dr. Ozil that they didn't worry about like cleaning up their fingerprints or shoe prints because it was their home. So it was kind of like already expected that their prints would be everywhere, you know, so Eric was telling Dr. Ozil this whole little breakdown. So Dr. Ozil was like, eric, you know, we should call Lyle right now and have him come over and. And talk about this. So they call up Lyle, and Lyle comes, like, racing over. And when he showed up, he was pissed. He was pissed that Eric had told Dr. Ozil anything and allegedly had threatened to kill him, the doctor guy, if he mentioned anything about it. Dr. Ozil invited them back to his office to keep talking, and, you know, they would share more and more dark details, really giving reason as to, like, the why of it all. And at this point, Dr. Ozil started taking more in depth notes and also tape recording the sessions. So investigators, they were kind of struggling to get some kind of hard evidence on the brothers, because they're really thinking it was the brothers. But on March 5, 1990, they received a very big break from Ms. Judalon Rose Smith. Now Judalon. Judalon. Judalon. Smith told police about the audio tapes from Dr. Ozil's sessions with the Menendez brothers, where they had allegedly confessed to the murders of their parents. I know. Who's this Judalon lady? Well, look, we can have a whole conversation about Judalon and Dr. Ozil's relationship in itself, because it's a whole shit show. But essentially, Dudalon, she was originally seeing Dr. Ozil for therapy, and she was receiving, like, hypnosis sessions from him, but then it evolved into a love affair. Now, he was married at the time, had a family, everything, and as these do, he's telling Judalon, like, all the things she wants to hear, like, I'm gonna leave my wife for you. You're the love of my life. You know, just dragging her, dragging her along. But essentially, he was fully taking advantage of her. So as time went on and things were getting messy between her and Dr. Ozil, she really realized what the was going on. And she's like, you know what? I'm going to police. So she went to police and she told them that Dr. Ozil, like, had become obsessed with the brothers, recording everything that they were talking about. And he was constantly trying to insert himself into their lives, and then was, like, telling Judalon everything about it. So, like, bringing her into it. There was this one session where Dr. Ozil had or asked Judalon to, like, come to his office while the brothers were there having a session and pretend that she was a patient waiting, just, like, sitting, waiting in the room. And that way, if, like, anything went wrong with the brothers because they were threatening to like, kill him and stuff. She would be a witness and could call police. So she's like, I don't want to be involved in this, but, like, he's making me be involved in this. And she finally got out of that cycle, you know, she was sick of his shit. And she went to police and she told them everything she knew. And this is exactly what the investigators needed and what they wanted. On March 8, 1990, the lead detective on the case, his name was Les Zoller, he got a search warrant for Dr. Ozil's tape recordings based on Judalon Judalon's tip. Judalon, Judalon, Judalon. Which fun little fact slash crossover. This lead detective, Les Zoller, he was also the lead detective for the Billionaire Boys Club case. Cause it was a real thing. I mean, what are the odds of that? Anyhow, so they go and they get the audio tapes from Dr. Ozil. They got 17 audio tapes and seven pages of notes. And detectives, of course, they listened to the tapes and they heard all the confessions straight from the Menendez brothers mouths. It was no denying to them that, like, they were involved. They did it. So the same day that investigators got the tapes, at 1pm, Lyle was flagged down by the Beverly Hills police while he was driving his, you know, his new little Jeep to the Cheesecake Factory. Not the Cheesecake Factory. Listen, he was pulled over. It was a big old scene. Arrested. It was all over the media. And he was taken into custody on suspicion of murdering his parents. Well, again, like, his arrest made news everywhere. Like, it was all over the place. And his brother Eric, he was at Israel at the time for, like, a tennis tournament. So he heard about his brother's arrest, and he ended up finding flying back home because he didn't want to be arrested in a different country. And he ended up turning himself in on March 11th. So why'd they do it? Was it just for money? Was it greed? I couldn't think of a better transition here. So let's go back, because this is where the real story comes to light. That was just like the surface story. To understand what really the fuck was going on, you got to go back. Let's go back. Back to the beginning. It's a good song, though. Good for her. So at the center of this American dream family was Jose Menendez. Now, he was born in Havana, Cuba, in 1944, and he arrived in the United States as a teenager in 1960, when he was fleeing the upheaval of the Cuban revolution. Now, when he came, he Came with little. But he was determined to make something of himself. Okay, I will give him that. He was very determined. Now this background, it gave Jose almost like a, a superhuman drive. Like, you know, he was a self made man who clawed his way to the top. Jose, he, he worked hard and he ended up earning a swimming scholarship to Southern Illinois University. I know it's kind of random, but his mom was like a great swimmer and she ended up in the hall of Fame back in Cuba. He did that. Then he pursued an accounting degree from Queens College. And people in the beginning, they seem to really love Jose. Like his drive, determination, it made him stand out and move up the corporate ladder very quick from working as an accountant to a corporate executive. I mean, he was driven. Then in 1971, he started working for Hertz as an executive in the car leasing division. And within two years, Jose was promoted to CFO at the company. And I was like, God damn, he was young too. Then in 1979, Jose, who's then 35, he became Hertz Worldwide general manager. Now the next year, Jose was reassigned to one of her parent companies, which was RCA Records. I know that part. I was thrown off. I was like, when does that. I thought they just said Carly Singer, whatever, and. But one of their parent companies is RCA Records. It just felt so random. But it doesn't matter. He was reassigned to go work for RCA Records, and then from there again, he became their chief operating officer officer. He was just able to move quick. Jose's job at RCA Records was to sign major artists like Duran Duran, the Eurythmics, and even the boy band Menudo. Now, Jose was known for his aggressive, firm business style, saying that he always thought it was far better to be feared than loved. So Jose, he got, he got things done, like, no matter what the cost, and he made a fortune by, you know, doing it. By 1986, his success had moved the family from New Jersey to the Los Angeles area. First it was Calabasas, and then in 1988, that's when they moved to the grand mansion in Beverly Hills. Now, Miss Kitty, she was, you know, right beside Jose, mainly like in his shadow. And that was Ms. Kitty Menendez. Her real name was Mary Louise Anderson. Now, when she was younger, she had won Miss Oak Lawn Beauty pageant, and she also attended Southern Illinois University. And that's where she met Jose. Now, she was described as glamorous, but also a bit of a quiet rebel. I was like, what does that mean? I don't know. But that's what they said. Now to Jose, Kitty had represented the American dream that he wanted. Like, you know, she's an all American, beautiful blonde hair girl who was educated, a beauty queen, you know. And to Kitty, Jose was this hard working man who was willing to overcome anything in order to achieve his dreams. And they loved that about each other. So when they met like they were inseparable. Now at the time when they got together, their relationship was considered very controversial because they were mixed race and they lived in a very conservative town. Now Kitty's family, they did not like Jose because he was Cuban. And Jose's family did not like Kitty because her parents were, were divorced. And again, old school conservative mentality. Divorced, no, heavily frowned upon, but you know, they didn't care whatever. And in 1963 they eloped and they moved to New York City. So when they moved, Kitty found work as a teacher. But you know, after the birth of Lyle in 1968 and Eric in 1970, she put her own dreams aside to become like a full time housewife, you know, dedicating her, her time to raising their sons. And I'm going like this, I'm going because like really she didn't want to, but like Jose really want her to be the stay at home mom and like do that whole traditional thing. Kitty had dreams to be going to like broadcasting and work in New York and broadcasting and stuff like that, but she gave all that up. It was said that Kitty's childhood was not great. Her father was like super abusive towards her mother and the kids. And I guess she carried that trauma with her, you know, struggling with depression and resentment all throughout her life. And as you know, Jose's career took off. You know what they do. Well, maybe you don't. But as his career, you know, took off, he picked up some mistresses along the way. It was said he had multiple affairs which Kitty would find out about and it was just devastating for her. Her former psychologist would later testify that she became dependent on drugs and alcohol. She had mentioned that she wanted to end her life a couple of times, especially after she had found out about an eight year affair Jose allegedly had with a woman in New York. So publicly Kitty, you know, supported Jose's ambition, but privately she was unwell. Friends actually described Kitty as Jose with a wig. Like she was just completely consumed by his vision and his goals. But she was also completely isolated and fully dependent on him. So for Lyle and Eric growing up with these parents, it was said to be very intense. Jose's drive didn't just like stop with him. He also put the Pressure onto his sons. Like they were not just expected to succeed, they were demanded to excel in Jose's eyes. You know, they were to continue the family legacy. You know that one thing that you.

B (32:24)

Keep saying you're gonna do eventually? Yeah. That junk drawer, you want to clean that out one day. Oh, that email, you're like, yeah, it's.

C (32:31)

Gonna take me like two to five business days to get back to that email.

B (32:34)

But yep, I'm gonna do that or maybe start therapy. Yeah. And every time you think about it.

C (32:40)

You'Re like, yeah, I'll do that.

B (32:41)

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The other way around.

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C (33:44)

To deal with it alone. Talk it out.

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C (34:23)

For Lyle and Eric, their lives revolved around competitive tennis from a young age. Like both boys were drilled relentlessly. Jose like managed their schedules, their coaches, their diets. He micromanaged everything and was like pushing them to national rankings. To the family or to Jose, tennis wasn't just a sport. It was a non negotiable path to a scholarship. And Honestly, I think it was a way for Jose to prove to everyone, you like, I make winners, My sons are the best. It was for everyone else. Lyle once told the Los Angeles Times, quote, my father suffered from being a perfectionist. It carried over into his home life and it was sometimes difficult for Eric and me. It wore on him mentally and it wore on us, end quote. But, you know, the pressure from Jose went way beyond the tennis court. It wasn't just about tennis. He. He controlled every aspect of their lives. He dictated what classes they took in school, what books they read, their social lives, who they dated, monitored their phone calls, and had almost an obsessive need to, like, know their every move. It was said that disappointment or like, anything less than perfection was met with Jose's explosive rages. I guess he had a terrifying temper and just the constant threat of his disapproval. He made it clear to the boys that their worth was tied directly to their achievements. Now, to the outside, both Eric and Lyle, they appeared like confident athletes. But inside, internally, they were struggling. Lyle, the older brother, I guess as a child, he developed a stutter, a speech impediment that would become worse under stress. It was said that his stutter was a result of his anxiety. He was often seen as like, the more dominant brother. He was outspoken, he was bold, he was more willing to challenge authority. His teachers, whoever, but especially their father. According to psychologists who evaluated him later on, they said that, you know, his confidence really masked a deep insecurity. Eric, the younger brother, was considered like the sensitive, anxious and soft spoken one. It was said he also actually developed a stutter as a kid and it was more severe than Lyle's. Eric was said to be shy, withdrawn, especially when his dad was around, but he really looked up to his older brother and just kind of leaned on him for any type of protection. Protection. He rarely stood up for himself. And many saw him as like, the more vulnerable of the two. You know, when they went to school, I guess like the school had called up Jose and Kitty and told them that their sons were not doing well in their classes. They were having trouble focusing and, like, retaining information. Lyle's teachers said that he was a rule breaker. He was defiant and just moody with Eric. He seemed to just struggle more in school than Lyle and it just seemed to make him like a target for Jose's criticism and his anger. When the school had informed Jose, you know, about their concerns with the kids, he wouldn't refuse to accept any type of negative feedback. Instead, Jose, he would, like, drive down to the school and he would yell at the teachers or go to whoever was in charge to blaming them for the boys poor performance. That was like them as, as, as kids, right? So again, like after the murders, the public like, saw the two grieving sons, then they saw the extravagant spenders, and then it was like, ew, these are just two greedy, selfish young men. But what they didn't see was what the hell was really going on behind those mansion walls for years. And finally, like, this all came out from Eric Menendez himself and the trial too. Sorry, I'm kind of like jumping around. But again, after the murders, Eric wasn't doing well, right? So he goes and he talks to Dr. Ozil. So in the beginning, Eric was talking about the murders, how it took place, what I mentioned earlier, that. But afterwards he would continue seeing Dr. Ozil where he shared more and more, giving an answer, like, the motive behind it all. During Eric's sessions, he shared more about the upbringing under Jose and Kitty. And it was horrifying. It was horrifying. Deeply disturbing. Kind of like what I just mentioned. Like, yes, Kitty and Jose were strict parents, but they were also just sick and abusive people, which according to Eric, was escalating over the years. The physical abuse was described as like a. A constant threat. Again, Jose's temper was insane and his discipline often turned violent. The brothers, they would later testify that Jose would hit. He would hit him with like, their hand or with objects, and usually it was out of nowhere. Jose was described as having a reign of terror over the household where, like, his physical intimidation was a tool to enforce his absolute will. Both brothers described instances where Jose would physically, like, force them to participate in tennis, even if they were like, badly injured. Or he would punish them pretty brutally if they messed up in school or again, sports in any way. Now Kitty, she too was accused of physical abuse. It was said, like, yeah, she wasn't as bad as Jose, but she would often slap or even just straight up punch the boys if they pissed her off. Again, Jose just like, needed all control. He controlled every aspect of their lives. Their friends, their clothes, their thoughts, their identities, just everything. And if they did not meet Jose's impossibly high standards, they would receive criticism, belittling, humiliation. He would pit the brothers against each other. It just seemed awful. Now Kitty, she's just like, she was just there, you know, she's, I guess, just overwhelmed with her own struggles. She just kind of like stood back and let Jose dominate the house. It was said that she again would participate in the physical abuse. Sometimes she would participate in the emotional abuse as well, or she would just be absent. Emotionally, she was there, but, like, she wasn't. She was checked out. But I think the most devastating and most controversial confession, the very core of the brothers defense, was the allegations of sexual abuse that the brothers received from. From their dad, Jose Menendez. Now, I wish we could have an honest discussion about it and, like, go in depth or whatever, but this is YouTube and they censor freaking everything. So, you know, this is already gonna get dinged, whatever. But, like, it was awful. Awful. Both Lyle and Eric testified under oath that their father had sexually abused them for years, Beginning when, like, eric was around 7 years old and continuing up right up until the time of the murders. They described a pattern of molestation, rape, forced incest, psychological manipulation that left them deeply traumatized. Now, in court, Lyle had testified that Jose had performed sex sexual acts on him and forced him to participate in acts of incest with his brother Eric. Yes. Now, Eric's testimony was. It was really hard to hear, just goes into great detail about the repeated sexual assault assaults by his father. And this was like the dark secret they claimed that had driven them to their breaking point. Now, this wasn't like just their. Their word against, you know, their fathers. During the trial, others had come forward to share. Share what they knew over the years. So during the trial, the boy's cousin, her name was Diane, she testified that when they were around eight years old, her and Lyle, they had a conversation where Lyle had mentioned to her that his dad had been touching or they had been touching each other down there. So Diane, she testified that she went and told Kitty what, you know, Lyle had said, and Kitty just kind of brushed it off, told her that, like, I don't need to listen to that. Like, she didn't believe her. During the trial, another one of the boys cousin, his name is Allen, he testified saying that Jose Menendez would take showers with the boys and that Kitty would, like, never intervene at all. Like, she wouldn't let him alan near the room during those times. And then another cousin, sorry, lots of cousins, but they were all close. Another cousin, Andy, testified saying that when Eric was 13, he told him that his father was massaging his lower area, but to never tell anyone about it. So they all came to court to mention these things to kind of back up their claims. One of the most significant pieces of evidence was alleged letter that Eric wrote to his cousin Andy in 1988. Now, this letter was written before the murders. Okay. In the letter, it said, quote, I've been trying to Avoid Dad. It's still happening, Andy. But it's worse for me now. I can't explain it. He's so overweight that I can't stand to see him. I never know when it's going to happen and it's driving me crazy. Every night I stay up thinking he might come in. I need to put it out of my mind. I know what you said before, but I'm afraid you just don't know dad like I do. He's crazy. He warned me a hundred times about telling anyone, especially Lyle. He goes on to say, am I a serious wimpus? I don't know if I'll make it through this. I can handle it, Andy. I need to stop thinking about it. End quote. Now, today, this letter is considered incredibly significant because it gave again some evidence that the brothers weren't making up the abuse, which was what the prosecution believed. But unfortunately, the letter was not included in the original trials, but in recent years has become like a central argument for the brothers legal teams who are seeking a new trial. It wasn't included in the original trials because they didn't know about the letter. Andy, the cousin, had passed away, and his. I believe it was his mom, when she was, like, going through his stuff, she found the letter and she turned it over. So further proof. Decades later, new allegations came out made by Roy Rosseo, a former member of the popular 1980s boy band Menudo. Now, Roy was around 13 or 14 when he met Jose. This is when Jose was, like, working as an RCA executive and at this time he was helping manage Menudo's tours. So Roy had come forward in 2023 and had testified that he too had been sexually abused by Jose when he was a teenager on numerous occasions. Roy gave a detailed account saying that his. His manager at the time had come to him and mentioned, like, he would be having dinner with Jose. So the manager told. Told Rory that he would be doing something great for Menudo and also for him. So he said that, like, a limo picked him up and his manager and they went to Jose's house in New Jersey. So when he got to Jose's house, Roy said he remembered seeing two young boys. It's assumed to be like, it was Eric and Lyle, but that they had said nothing when he walked in. Also Kitty was there along with Jose and Roy's manager. So then Jose offered Roy wine and told him, like, in a joking way, like, it's very expensive wine, so you better drink it all up, you know. Roy said that he remembered he was drinking the the wine. And then he just remembered, like, feeling really sick. And then things went blurry and, like, he couldn't move. Then he remembers, like, he had these brief moments where he remembered Jose taking him to a room where then he was raped. So Roy remembered waking up. He was like, back at his hotel and he was in a lot of pain and he was bleeding. And his manager said that, like, this was normal, not to mention it to anybody, and, like, it wasn't a big deal. Now this was just one, one incident. There were others after that. Roy's allegations, you know, they came long after the trial, but it provided like a third party account of Jose's predatory behavior. And it really just added weight and credibility to the brothers claim.

B (48:22)

I used to treat bras and underwear like an afterthought. Like whatever was clean, like whatever was available. You know, you just put it on.

C (48:29)

Hoping for the best.

B (48:30)

Meanwhile, I'm tugging, feeling uncomfortable all day, and wondering why I hate my outfit. Turns out it wasn't the outfit.

C (48:36)

Turns out I got a fat wedgie.

B (48:38)

And it's the underwear that's the problem.

C (48:39)

Okay, what the heck?

B (48:41)

But listen, that's when Skims came in and completely changed the game. Skims made me realize that the bra and panty you put on in the morning actually can define how you feel in your clothes all day long. Instead of stiff, bulky, uncomfortable intimates, Skims is all about the most amazing, stretchy, supportive fabrics that feel good and look good. Oh, and listen, I have to talk about my current obsession, the lightweight cotton pointelle Lace Boy Short. I know, what a name. But listen, they're cute, they're lightweight. You could walk around with no pants on and a T shirt, and it's so cute. And they're so comfortable. Which is surprising because normally, like, a lace Boy short is anything but comfortable. But I'm all in. So listen, don't let uncomfortable underwear ruin your vibe. Skims solves that. Trust me, once you try it, there's no going back. Shop my favorite bras and underwear@skims.com after you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the dropdown menu that follows. And if you're looking for the perfect gift for your valentine, or even maybe, I don't know, for yourself, the skims Valentine shop is now open.

C (49:55)

So where was Kitty in all this? You know? Well, the brother's testimony didn't just, like, implicate Jose. They also kind of showed a disturbing side of Kitty. As well. They said that not only was Kitty aware of Jose's abuse, but that she. She would either participate in it, or at the very least, she failed to protect them. Lyle had testified that Kitty was present during some of the sexual abuse, at times even joining. Eric said if she wasn't participating, she would be in the next room while, like, he was being abused, making sure, like, no one would enter the room. Both of them also said that Kitty was involved. Involved in covering up the abuse, threatening the boys to, like, never speak about it. To her, it was all about maintaining the public, the family's public image over everything. And again, like, this just added another layer of trauma for Lyle and Eric, who said they felt betrayed, obviously, by both parents, which made them feel trapped, desperate, and unable to escape. So Eric and Lyle said that the Wednesday before the murders, they had confronted their parents about the abuse. They're grown now, and they were ready to confront them. So they go and they ask their mom, like, why are you allowing it to happen in the first place? And then they tell their parents, like, you know, we're gonna. We're gonna tell everyone the truth and what's really going on on. According to Lyle, Jose told him that whatever he did with his son was, like, none of his business and to just stay out of it in the heat of the moment or whatever Jose then would like. I guess he threatened to kill them or just get rid of them if they spoke out or mentioned anything about it. And I guess, according to them, all Kitty said was that Eric was lying, that they were just lying. It was said at this moment, the boys believed that their lives were in danger. Now, when all of this came out in court, the perception of the Menendez family, it just really turned upside down right again from the outside. In the beginning, it was like, oh, my God, they're the victims of this horrible crime. But when Lyle and Eric's testimony came out in court, people were now seeing them as victims of decades of horrendous abuse, which is what led them to make the decision to kill them. And it was not because of greed. It was from fear. This was the abuse defense, and it would be a very big deal. It would send shockwaves through the legal system and even the public. So with the allegations of abuse now out there, the defense team, the people who represented Eric and Lyle, their attorneys, Leslie Abramson and Jill Lansing, they faced the task of trying to convince the jury that these two young men who, yes, brutally killed their parents were not just killers looking for a payout, but instead were terrified victims pushed to their limit. And the defense team leaned heavily on a pretty groundbreaking legal concept at the time. Battered child syndrome. So battered child syndrome is a psychological and medical term used to describe the physical and emotional symptoms that are experienced by children who have suffered prolonged abuse, Often, you know, at the hands of, like, their parents or guardians. Now it's said, like children who are subjected to this physical, emotional, sexual abuse for long periods of time, they can develop a profound sense of helplessness, fear, and a distorted perception of reality. Like, they're living in a constant state of terror and believing that escape is impossible and the child on the receiving end, it. You know, it can lead to extreme actions. So in the 1960s, battered child child syndrome was formally recognized mainly in, like, pediatric medicine, then later evolved into a legal defense in criminal cases. So Eric and Lyle's team argued that the brothers suffered from this and genuinely believed that their lives were in danger from Jose. You know, they had claimed that Jose had threatened to kill them multiple times and that the sexual abuse was just getting worse and worse, and it was becoming a moment unbearable. And this led to the legal argument of imperfect self defense. I know it's a lot of terms, but listen, imperfect self defense is different from traditional self defense because it comes into. Into play when, like, the defendant genuinely believes, but unreasonably believes, that they are in imminent danger and will act to protect themselves. I'm getting tongue tied over here. The key word, though here is unreasonably. Even if Jose wasn't actively attacking them at the moment of the murders, the defense argued that years of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse had created a reasonable fear of death or severe, like, bodily harm. Complicated, a little, not really, but like, kind of, you know, these legal jargon. Again, according to, like, Lyle and Eric, every day was a threat threat. Every moment in Jose's presence, like, felt like it was just a ticking time bomb. The defense claimed that they had no other way out. It was not about getting their parents money, but rather, like, it was just an act of survival. Jose was well connected, he was very powerful, and the brothers were terrified of what would happen if they did try to, like, seek help. Now, the prosecution's claims were, were very simple. The brothers planned to kill their parents and inherit their wealth. They killed because of greed, Point blank period. So by the time Lyle and Eric Menendez were arrested, it was like, again, In March of 1990, it was about seven months after the murders. The story, it was all over. The media, people were invested. But it was during their trials, mainly the first one that the Menendez case turned into a media circus. It was a perfect storm in a way. Court TV had launched in 1991 and it gave for like the first time live coverage of high profile cases and like showed courtroom footage live on television. This was all brand new. So for the first time, people could actually watch criminal proceedings on tv. And the Menendez trial became one of their biggest attractions. In the beginning, I think people were interested in it because it was like, oh, like two spoiled rich kids who murdered their parents for their money, you know, and that's what a lot of people really believed. I mean, at first, I mean the spending spree, the fancy cars, the Rolex watches, designer clothes, gambling trips, it didn't help. It was easy for like everyone to think that these brothers were just entitled and would do anything to feed their greed. And the media was running headlines like about the billionaire boys and killer sons, just all with that same narrative. But then when the first trial started and the defense like unleashed their allegations of decades of physical, emotional and sexual abuse, you know, from Jose and Kitty, the story shifted from greed to oh my God, what. The first trial was an emotional roller coaster. I mean, largely thanks to Lyle and Eric's defense strategy. Now during the trial, they really put the Menendez family, like it's himself on trial, alleging a history of abuse, you know, so bad that it drove the brothers to murder. The defense team, most notably Leslie Abramson, she represented Eric. She presented the evidence of battered child syndrome. Now this was like the first time a lot of people were even hearing this term. It was like what? Again, key testimonies came from the brothers themselves. Themselves who they went into very awful details of Jose's physical and emotional torment and the long history of alleged sexual abuse. Psychologists and like experts on abuse, they had testified about the psychological impact of like the trauma that the boys allegedly, I have to say, allegedly received, just reinforcing that offenses claim of imperfect self defense. Now it's like one thing when you hear like me talking about it, like they mention sexual abuse and all this stuff, but when you watch the testimony and you watch both Eric and Lyle on the stand, you're like, oh, like there's no way they're making this, this up. There's just no, there's no way. There's no way they're making it up. That's what I'm going to say about that.

D (59:24)

Did you cry?

C (59:26)

Yes. Did you bleed? Yes. I just told him I don't, I don't. I just told him that I didn't Want to do this and that. It hurt me. What do you believe was the originating cause of you and your brother ultimately winding up shooting your parents? Me telling. You Telling what? Me telling Lyle that. You telling Lyle what? My dad. My dad had been molesting me. But the prosecution, they fought back. So they dismissed the abuse claims. They were saying it was fake. They called it, quote, unquote, abuse excuse, you know, a convenient lie invented after the fact to avoid responsibility. And like, their argument was clear. The motive for the brothers was greed, pure and simple. And anyone who thought otherwise was dumb, period. Okay. I mean, the prosecution, they really just highlighted and focused on the planning of the killings, the shotgun blasts at close range, the way that the brothers had initially tried to cover up the crime, and of course, that post murder spending spree. So the prosecution, they had painted Jose as a driven but loving father and Kitty as a caring, loving mother, arguing that the brothers, you know, their claims were just outrageous lies designed to manipulate the jury. They focused really on like emphasizing the brutality of the killings. And their whole thing was like, there is no amount of past abuse that could justify such a cold blooded act. But Eric Menendez, you know, he gave a testimony. He was like up there, kind of like sometimes sobbing. He's very tearful. And he talked about the abuse. And like, that was very. It was very impactful. While on the stand, he cried while describing, like, in awful detail what his father did to him throughout the years. And a lot of people watching, listening, whatever, they really felt his pain. And the amount of detail he went into, it was really hard to believe that, like, this was all made up. When Lyle took the stand, he was received a little bit differently because he was like a little bit more calm. Some called him stoic. He seemed to be like, more in control of his emotions. Some people interpreted this as, like, him being calculated because he wasn't as emotional and convincing like Eric was. But, you know, other people disagreed, saying, like, it was a sign of deeper emotional suppression. Now, again, because all this was on live tv, it was like every sigh, every tear, every cough, every movement was scrutinized, and it was just a national obsession. After months of testimony and intense deliberation, it kind of honestly seemed like the jury was leaning in the brother's favor. But the outcome blew everyone away. The juries were deadlocked. Each brother was tried by a separate jury. So Lyle's jury was hung 8 to 4 in favor of a lesser charge of manslaughter. And Eric's jury was split 10 to 2, also favoring manslaughter over murder. In other words, they couldn't agree, and this meant a mistrial. Frustrating, but at the same time, it seemed like a pretty profound moment because it meant that, like, while the defense's abuse claims were considered controversial, it gave enough reasonable doubt to prevent a murder conviction. So it was seen as, like, a partial victory for the brothers. But the downside, it also meant that they would have to do this all over again in another trial. Now, the second trial, do it all over again, was presided over by this judge named Stanley, Stanley Weisberg. This trial would be dramatically different. Now, I guess the judge had, like, he watched the first trial and was not a fan. He made it a critical ruling for this new trial, limiting the amount of abuse evidence that could be presented to the jury. And it's like, what. That was kind of like their whole thing. His reason, though? Well, the judge believed that the defense had gone too far and had turned the trial into a quote, unquote circus and focused too much on character assassination rather than giving direct evidence of self defense. When the murder happened, the judge said that the graphic and extensive details of past abuse were not directly relevant to the legal definition of imperfect self defense. So the judge's decision to not allow this information into the new trial heavily impacted Eric and Lyle's team, you know, to fully present their case and, like, really limited their ability to tell the jury the why of it all. So the second trial starts up, you know, and the prosecution, they doubled down on the motive of greed. Instead, they focused on the planning the brothers did before the murders, the weapons, the spending spree, and the lack of immediate threat to the brothers at the time of the murders. They portrayed the brothers as calculating liars who were manipulative and invented a story to escape justice. And Eric and Lyle's team, I mean, they struggled. They really did. They didn't really have a good defense because their defense was not allowed in court. So after months of testimony and just two days of deliberation, on March 20, 1996, the jury came back with a verdict. Lyle and Eric Menendez were both found guilty of two counts of first degree murder, along with conspiracy to commit murder without the emotional testimonies about the abuse. I mean, the prosecution's simple, direct case of here's what the brothers did the day of the murders, period. It had won the jury over. On July 2, 1996, both brothers were given the maximum sentence, two consecutive life terms in prison without the possibility of parole. They would be spending the rest of their lives behind bars. Now the public's reaction, very mixed. Many saw it as a win because they fully believed in the like greedy rich kid, you know, narrative type of thing. But for many others who fully believe like the abuse claims, it was really a heartbreaking moment. So 25 year old Eric and 28 year old Lyle would die behind bars. Lyle was sent to Mule Creek State Prison in Northern California and Eric was sent to Pleasant Valley State Prison. It was like 500 miles away. They were separated because the courts didn't want the brothers communicating with one another. Lyle called the separation, quote, unquote, tremendously painful. And Eric, he went on like a hunger strike in attempt to stay with his brother. For over two decades they were kept apart and the only contact that they had was like through letters or indirect communication through their family. Now while they've been incarcerated, they've both embarked on paths of personal development and in some ways redemption. Both would end up getting married while incarcerated. Lyle's first marriage ended in divorce, but they got marriage yay. Lyle got a bachelor's degree in sociology while in prison and is pursuing a master's degree. I know, I was like, I guess prison is the only place you can give free education and healthcare. Lol. Lyle served in the inmate government for 15 years. And I was like, what? How to look this up? And it's a structured system within a prison that allows the inmates to participate debate in like decision making related to their daily lives, the institutional operations and peer representation. I was like, what? It's like a student council, I guess. Yes. And it was said that Lyle has worked on prison reform while incarcerated. For example, he has taken active roles in improving prison conditions, advocating for inmates rights, helping implement programs that support rehabilitation education and community building behind bars. I was like, damn good for him. I didn't even know they had all these things going on. Eric, while in prison, has become deeply involved in religious studies, I guess, leading Bible study classes and even becoming a minister. It's said that Eric worked with terminally ill inmates through like a hospice program which like, would provide comfort and end of life care for inmates. I know I was learning all this like, wow, I didn't actually know they did all this like in prison and whatnot. Eric also became an advocate for child abuse survivors. So like he would mentor fellow inmates with similar trauma and like contribute to awareness efforts behind bars. So both brothers have participated in, in support groups for other prisoners who have gone through sexual abuse, channeling their own experiences into helping others. They have often been described as model inmates. They've had good Behavior. And they've been just participating in rehabilitative programs. Throughout the years, both brothers have tried to appeal, but have been constantly denied. And for the most part, the world just really moved on. Right. And it seemed like their fate was sealed. That was that. But, you know, unless you've been living under a rock. In recent years, the Menendez case has had a dramatic resurgence in public interest. This attention has come from, you know, the true crime community, people on social media having discussions about older cases with now, like, grown fresh eyes. Love it or hate it, I know a lot of people did not like it, but the Netflix drama series, it was called Monsters the Lyle and Eric Menendez Story. It was a dramatization of the story and a documentary from the brothers that followed. It really brought the case to, like, a new generation of viewers, many of whom didn't know or even understand the full scope of the abuse allegations. And to many, like, hearing this for the first time was shocking. And it really got the conversation going just, again, like, reigniting sympathy towards the brothers. And a lot of people were looking at the trials like, what the hell was that about? What? Yeah, it was just. It's been in the conversation. All the public conversations and debate online has coincided with the new legal effort by the brothers defense teams. So the brothers have a new legal team, and they have filed a habeas corpus petition or petitions on the brother's behalf. A habeas petition is essentially like a legal way for someone in prison to be like, hey, the court got it wrong. Here's new evidence or proof that my rights were violated, and I deserve another look at my case. So their attorneys are arguing that their detention is unlawful due to the heirs errors, errors in their original trial, and newly discovered evidence. The new evidence being what I mentioned earlier, Eric's 1988 letter to his cousin Andy that was written months before the murders, you know, and where he kind of, like, talked about the ongoing sexual abuse. On top of that, the allegations. Affidavit from the Menudo member, Roy. Yeah, Remember, he came. He came forward sharing his sexual abuse by Jose Menendez in the 1980s. They did all the math. And based off of his allegations, like, where Jose was at the time and where Menudo was at the time, like, it correlates. It's credible. Okay. Because people are trying to say, like, why is he coming forward now? And I hate that anyways, but that's like, new evidence. The defense argues that this evidence, if it were presented to a jury today, would most likely lead to a different outcome, potentially Like a manslaughter conviction. In October 2024, the Los Angeles District Attorney's office started reviewing the case, acknowledging the, quote, complexities surrounding the sexual violence, end quote. And the brother's continuous rehabilitative efforts. Rehabilitative. Why are words so hard for me? Anyways? But the former district attorney initially, like, showed a willingness to recommend a resentencing or even like a new trial. And it was like, kind of looking like that was going to happen. But then things changed. Los Angeles, they got a new district attorney. His name's Nathan Hockman, and he felt different. This Nathan Hockman opposed a new trial, saying that the brothers have not shown full accountability for their lies and deceptions. And he was not for a second chance. But on May 13, 2025, a Los Angeles Superior Court judge, Michael Jessic, I think is his name for formally resentenced Lyle and Eric Menendez. Anyways, so their original sentencing was like life without parole. It was reduced to 50 years to life. So the judge had acknowledged, like, the horrific nature of the crime, but also highlighted the brother's significant rehabilitative efforts during their 35 years in prison. And he stated that while he wasn't saying they should be released, instead he was saying, like, they had done enough to get that chance at a parole hearing. Also, because both of them were under the age of 26 years old at the time of the crime, this new sentence makes them immediately eligible for parole under California's youthful offender laws. Listen, California's youth youthful offender law gives people who committed serious crimes before the age of 26 a chance at an earlier parole hearing. The idea is that young people's brains aren't, you know, fully developed, so they may be more capable of change and that the system should take that into account. Now, this hearing is believed to take place in August of this year, 2025. So again, it might bring them one step closer to like potentially walking free. Well, this case at the core lie like two conflicting narratives. On one side, the prosecution's portrayal of Lyle and Eric Menendez as just cold, calculating greedy sons who gunned down their parents for a multi million dollar inheritance and, and then staged like a lavish display of fake grief and spending which led to their first three murder convictions. And then on the other side, the defense account of two deeply traumatized young men, victims of years of sexual or severe physical, emotional and sexual abuse at the hands of not just like any person, but their own parents, you know, the very powerful Jose Menendez. And then they're, in my opinion, kind of like, she seemed like a mom. Kitty Menendez. And this is what makes the Menendez case, like, so I don't know if complex is the right word. Interesting. I don't feel like that's the right word either, but I don't know. But now with like, this new evidence that came out, I mean, Eric's letter and Roy's allegations, it, like, it definitely challenges the verdicts. I mean, after all these years, people still, I mean, people still are talking and really asking the question, like, are Lyle and Eric Menendez guilty, like truly guilty of just first degree murder, cold blooded murder, or were they victims of awful abuse, pushed to a breaking point and deserving of, like, a different outcome? Beyond the Menendez case, though, it's definitely led to, like, bigger conversations being had and really, like, putting a spotlight on the, you know, often hidden reality of child abuse, even within wealthy, seemingly perfect families. And just really, like, taking down that. That myth that these things only happen in certain demographics. This case also got people talking about the justice system's handling of abuse claims, especially when the victims are male, who historically have faced greater skepticism and difficulty in coming forward and speaking out, because a lot of people just don't take it seriously. I think as the years have gone on, you know, people, society, whatever, have come to, like, understand the long term psychological effects of trauma, you know, and what it can do to a person and how it just can destroy them and even influence their actions years later. And that is the Menendez case, really. I left a lot out. Okay, Yes, I know. But like, for the most part, that's it. Now, I never wanted to do this story because I too was one of those people who didn't really know anything about this case at all. I only heard about it, I don't know, but I thought they were just spoiled rich kids who wanted their parents inheritance, like, that's it. And then I watched that Netflix dramatization one again. A lot of people didn't like it. And that's okay. You're allowed to not like it. But when I watched it, I was like, is this true? Is this really what happened? Like, even if a fraction of that was true, I was like, what the. So then I went onto YouTube and they have all of, like, you can watch the whole trial online. And I was like, oh, my God, Like, a lot of it is true. A lot of it is true. And when you watch the Menendez brothers aren't, like, giving their testimony, it's hard to not believe what they're saying. I mean, I don't know why people would even think otherwise. It's just like, wow, wow. They were up by their parents. And that's the tricky part. Does that mean that you. It you can get away with killing people? No, I think you still have to pay the price for murdering and blowing someone's head off. But, you know, that's where I think people. I think that's where everyone struggles. I don't know. We'll see what happens. Really? I feel bad for. Yeah, I don't know. That's. Anyways, Thoughts? I don't know. I mean, we'll see what happens. Okay, friends. Hi, it's me again. I hope you enjoyed the episode. And like I was saying before, I recorded today's episode before the parole hearings, before the judge's ruling on the habeas petition, and a lot has happened. Honestly, I. I thought, like, for sure they were gonna get out of prison. No. So Eric and Lyle's parole hearings were handled separately, but they did share, like, a lot of the same witnesses. On August 21, 2025, Eric had his. His hearing and he was denied parole. The parole board said that his past criminal record, meaning his burglaries before the murders, his prison rule violations throughout the years, like having a cell phone and other things, plus his lack of empathy and reason shown when murdering his mother, were all the reasons as to why they felt he was not ready to be released. The next day, it was Lyle's turn to face the parole board. A couple of hours after the hearing started, the Department of Crime Corrections mistakenly, quote, unquote, handed over audio recordings from Eric's hearing to the press, which, you shouldn't do that. Okay? And, you know, it spread like wildfire. Clips of Eric talking about what they did, why they did it, and if he regretted it, like, had spread. Spread all over the news and social media. This leak was a clear violation of the parole board standard practices. And it just doesn't seem like, like, an easy mistake to make. It kind of feels like it was done on purpose. Okay, let's be real. Lyle's attorneys accused the Department of Corrections of releasing the recordings on purpose to, like, I don't know, cause a spectacle. Anna did. Several family members who testified for Eric and were, like, supposed to testify for Lyle ended up backing out because they were afraid that they were going to be dragged into this media circus. Once again, Lyle's attorneys tried to get the hearing rescheduled because of. Of the situation, but the deputy commissioner of the parole board decided to move forward. Like, anyway, in the end, Lyle was Also denied parole for prison rule violations, like having a cell phone, I guess he was showing antisocial personality traits. He had been deceptive and was minimizing his actions. And he had like a lack of, quote, unquote, full insight of his criminal actions by lying to avoid consequences. That was their reasoning as to why they denied his parole. The deputy commissioner told Lyle that, you know, the board, they, they found him to be genuine and remorseful, but there were certain things he needed to work on and to not lose hope because in a couple of years when he, they're up again for parole, he could still get out as long as, you know, he follows all the rules and doesn't get into trouble. So a little motivational speech there. So that's the parole. But there's also been movement on the habeas petition. So the superior court judge who was reviewing those like new pieces of evidence, like the letter and Roy Rossello's interview, this judge believed that this did warrant like a reexamination of, of, you know, the case. But the LA District attorney disagreed and said that none of the new evidence was relevant and that it lacked credibility. The D A said that it lacked credibility because it was never mentioned in court by Eric or the cousin and that all of like Roy's interview, all it did was confirm that Jose was an abuser. But it didn't change the fact that they, the boys were not in imminent danger when they killed their parents. Then on September 15, 2025, about six weeks after reviewing the petition and the DA's response, the judge denied the brothers habeas petition. He said the new evidence somewhat supports the brothers claims of sexual abuse, but that like, didn't change the fact that, you know, they pledged plan the murders beforehand. So now what? Well, as of right now, Eric and Lyle will be able to try for parole again in about three years. There is a chance that if the brothers follow like the rules that you have in prison and have good behavior, their next hearing date could be moved up to like a year from now. And the only other option for Eric and Lyle would be if the California governor pardoned them. And I just don't know if that's on the agenda as of right now, you know, but if he did that, he would basically like wipe their slate clean and. Or he could like reduce their sentence again. But again, I, I don't think that's high priority with what's all going on right now. I think a lot about the Menez brothers episode especially. Cause like, so much was left, left out And I did see a lot of people online like, well, why didn't you mention this? Why didn't you mention that? And it was like, well, if I did, it would have been like a week long episode. But overall, I just feel like with the Menendez brothers, like, that story is just so up, the abuse. If you watch like the court trial and like if you watch them testify, the brothers on, on the stand, it's hard not to believe that their dad and their mom were very up. You can't murder someone and just like get away with it. But at the same time, like, maybe it was, that was their only way out. You know what I'm saying? So I don't know. I felt really bad for them, even if. Yeah, it's just sad. I think eventually they'll get out, but we'll see. I guess, I guess I will say this. Eric and Lyle's lawyers and family members, they continue to speak up about their case and they seem to be using every single possible avenue to fight for their release. And I think one day, I think it's gonna happen. I don't know when though. Anyways, thank you guys so much for hanging out with me today. I hope you have a good rest of your day. You make good choices and I'll be talking to you guys later. Goodbye.

D (87:18)

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