Loading summary
Transcript199 lines
- [00:00]
Anya Cain
Summer's winding down, so it's time for a wardrobe refresh with autumn in mind instead of chasing trends which frankly, I have neither the time nor the inclination to do. I like going for pieces that I can wear a lot and get a lot of good value out of pieces that are well made and going to last me for a while.
- [00:18]
Kevin Greenlee
We love our sponsor Quint's. We shop there all the time. We love getting luxury goods for less. Quint's items are half the cost of similar brands.
- [00:29]
Anya Cain
I'm on the hunt for more Quints items, but my last Quince purchase was their 100% European linen button front dress in blue chambray stripe. I've been wearing it everywhere. I wore it when we met a secret source at a random restaurant in a different state. I wore it when we took our friends out for sushi. I wear it all the time now. It's that comfortable. I love how you can sort of dress it up with accessories and look very put together, but it's also so comfortable and fits so well. It's something I can throw on all casual style. It's one of my favorite dresses and I'm strongly leaning toward buying a few others in different colors because I like it that much.
- [01:04]
Kevin Greenlee
Quince also has other 100% European linen dresses as well as cashmere and cotton sweaters starting at $40, not to mention their washable silk tops and denim pants.
- [01:18]
Anya Cain
Elevate your fall wardrobe essentials with quince. Go to quince.commsheet for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E.commsheet to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.commsheet we are people who cover crime.
- [01:37]
Kevin Greenlee
Cases, so we often find it very helpful to speak to people who work in that world. Prosecutors, defense attorneys, law enforcement. It's helpful to get perspective from those who work in those areas because the reality is often different from one's assumptions, which can largely be molded by inaccurate popular culture portrayals. Plus, we are outsiders to that world. We merely seek to look into it and report back accurate information. But neither of us has ever tried a criminal case nor have we ever served in law enforcement.
- [02:10]
Anya Cain
So we are extremely excited today about our guests. These are two actual detectives who just started a podcast also called the Detectives. Their names are Dave and Steve and they are awesome.
- [02:23]
Kevin Greenlee
In this episode we are going to interview them about their work and about their new podcast. We're going to get into public perceptions of policing and what they hope to convey with this show.
- [02:33]
Anya Cain
Side note, we're obsessed with this podcast. It just came out and it's very good. We listen to it all the time. Once we drove clear across town and then looped back and extended our drive deep into the country because we wanted to finish the episode, we might have looked like we were trying to case out a business or a house to rob, but it was worth it.
- [02:50]
Kevin Greenlee
We feel Murder Sheet listeners will love this show as well, because it's all about education and building knowledge in an entertaining and very interesting way. And a good educational podcast or in any aspect of crime will give you the building blocks to better understand the topic wherever you go. So this is a show that definitely accomplishes all of that, and we feel we've not only learned a lot, but we've had a great time doing so.
- [03:15]
Anya Cain
So here's our interview with the detectives. My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.
- [03:21]
Kevin Greenlee
And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.
- [03:23]
Anya Cain
And this is the Murder Sheet.
- [03:25]
Kevin Greenlee
We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're the Murder Sheet.
- [03:33]
Anya Cain
And this is a conversation with the detectives.
- [03:47]
Dave
It.
- [04:22]
Anya Cain
So I guess to start off with, guys, we want to say thank you so much for coming on the Murder Sheet. This is an honor for us, and we're really, really excited about it.
- [04:30]
Steve
Gosh, thank you guys for having us. It's. It's good to be back in. Just in a completely different role now.
- [04:38]
Kevin Greenlee
One thing that I think makes your show so good is you bring such experience to it. You're just not a couple of random people talking about police work. You've walked the walk, and you really know what you're talking about. And I wonder for people who may not know, can you tell us a little bit about yourselves and your background in this sort of work?
- [04:57]
Steve
Sure. This really started from the very beginning. When I was a kid, I grew up in a law enforcement family. Both my uncles were in law enforcement, and I always wanted to be that police officer, that investigator. I watched all the cop shows, all the cop movies. I was that little kid running around the neighborhood playing cops and robbers. And I saw the work that my uncles were doing, and I just loved it. I wanted to follow in their footsteps, but at the same time make my own career out of it. And that's when I started to really go that way. I went to college and studied criminal justice and got a bachelor's degree in criminal justice and criminology and and did a job internship and a job shadow, which I highly recommend anyone doing who wants to get into the criminal justice field. It really gives you a glimpse of, of what the work actually is versus what you see on tv. And then I just knew that confirmed that this, this career was for me. And I applied to an agency, made it through the entire process, and then got hired and started my official law enforcement career in 20 a six month academy.
- [06:15]
Kevin Greenlee
What about you, Steve?
- [06:16]
Dave
Yeah, I mean, my journey kind of started the same as Dave's. I won't go way back in my childhood, you don't need to hear that kind of trauma. But I did want to go into law enforcement even when I went into college. So I graduated from Indiana State with a bachelor's in chronology, December of 2000 and later in 2001, I was hired on and became a full fledged rookie police officer in December of 2001. And of course, if you remember, the world looked quite different in December of 2001 than it did in December of 2000. So a lot happened that year, including my joining the force. I've been in law enforcement now for about 23 and a half years. It'll be 24 in December. So that's kind of the interesting dichotomy with Dave and I. You know, he brings that young, you know, youthful, ready to change the world kind of attitude. I've got the old salty, been there, done that, it doesn't excite me kind of attitude. So I think we play off of each other with that. I became a detective about end of 2007, beginning of 2008. Worked primarily in crimes against children. Serious physical sexual abuse of children was kind of my forte. Then I became the supervisor in 2016. That's when I kind of started working with Dave in the investigative arena during that timeframe. Since then I've moved up into the administration level in the investigative world. So my responsibilities have changed quite a bit. I have a different kind of, a different view of things than what Dave does. I've been where Dave is. I know you know what that looks like and, and now I kind of have an overall perspective. So that kind of kind of gives us a wide range of experience.
- [07:57]
Steve
Yeah, I think, and I appreciate the compliment. It's not often I hear young with the gray hair that I have. So I appreciate the young compliment in perspective. But like I said, I started my law enforcement career in 2014. And you start that off like normally, as everyone does in the career as a road officer. And that's where you really get to experience the vehicle pursuits, the foot pursuits, traffic stops, crash investigations. You're responding to different incidents. You know, 911 calls. I got to do a lot of drug interdiction and warrant services and interacted with a lot of different police agencies and got to experience working alongside of different roles in the criminal justice system. And that really shaped what I wanted to do when I started seeing investigation, investigative work. And that's when in 2019, I had the opportunity to then move into that detective role. And since then, that's where all my experience and time has been since 2019 to now in the detective role. And I just, I really love criminal investigations. I think it demands a higher level of critical thinking, a lot of long term focus and investigative strategy to where you're not just responding to those immediate calls and you, you have to go and do it. It's. It's something that's a, a lot longer term and I think it's more rewarding as well.
- [09:29]
Kevin Greenlee
Yeah, I really love the back and forth you guys have on the podcast. As you say, Steve brings a little bit, a different perspect. He's been there a bit longer. And this will maybe either offend you or maybe you won't even get the reference. Like the other day, Anya and I were watching Adam 12 where there's a slightly older police officer and a younger police officer. We said, oh, the way they're going at it is just like Steve and Dave.
- [09:54]
Dave
Yeah, there is a lot of truth to that.
- [09:56]
Steve
I'm not seeing this.
- [09:57]
Dave
I tried. Yeah, I didn't expect you to. I'll be honest with you. That doesn't.
- [10:01]
Steve
Okay. I will put.
- [10:02]
Anya Cain
It'll be like talking about like sandwiches and then like someone will get shot. Like it's just like, just everything is just chaos.
- [10:10]
Steve
But it's happened the other day at lunch. I don't.
- [10:12]
Kevin Greenlee
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [10:14]
Anya Cain
It's your lives.
- [10:15]
Steve
Yeah. That is, man.
- [10:18]
Kevin Greenlee
Well, listening to you guys talking about your background and, and your work, you've had so much success, frankly, in your careers. Why in the name of God, why are you guys doing a podcast?
- [10:30]
Dave
Why are we. Dave?
- [10:31]
Steve
Yeah. Gosh. Is something that is so completely different than what we do on a regular basis, but yet it just, it brings what we do on a daily basis into a different realm, I guess. And first I would have to say I was inspired by you guys on the murder. She just seen the, the honest reporting that, that you guys did on the criminal justice system was very refreshing to hear. It was seeing that you guys were taking the time to do what was right and to report what was actually happening. And I think Steve and I, we've had conversations for years now, being in the field, working different investigations, different cases where, you know what's going on behind the scenes. And then when you see it out on social media or the news, it is completely different.
- [11:20]
Dave
Right.
- [11:21]
Steve
And we really, you know, we got so many questions all the time from family members, friends. Is that really how it happens? Is that, you know, I saw this on the news, why did the police do this? And I just felt like we had these conversations of what could we do to pull back that veil and, you know, start that conversation of what it's actually like and almost provide an education on the criminal justice field and what we do on a daily basis.
- [11:50]
Dave
Yeah. And it's kind of born of, you know, frustration really, too, because after years of, you know, the tv, you know, the news, the podcasts that we see about our investigations, about other investigations, other other departments, and they just get it wr or they just miss the real story entirely. And we just get really frustrated with that after a while. Unfortunately, not all of them are like you guys, where they have some integrity, they care, they'll say whatever they want to say about whoever they want to say it about. And we just don't think that that's fair. And we've spent a lot of time in law enforcement and we understand other officers and their frustration with not being able to speak out, with not being able to get the truth out there. So we just wanted that. Create that space of truth, you know, where we have an opportunity to talk about the good, talk about the bad, and even the uncomfortable. And that's what our goal is, is to educate, challenge, and inform the public of things that they otherwise would not have the opportunity to hear of. This particular perspective.
- [12:47]
Steve
Yeah, I guess working some of these bigger cases, homicides, child sex abuse, material cases, you really start to see that there is a huge disconnect between what we do and what we know versus what the public, or everyday I describe them as normal people, think that we do or know. And there was just this huge disconnect. And I think now, particularly at this time, there is such a huge interest in true crime, and it's. It's just growing more and more every day. And you have a lot of people, like Steve said, whether it be, you know, on the news or podcast, that are basically shaping the narrative for how law enforcement is and specifically criminal investigations. So you're only hearing it from that one side. And I think it's time that something that we can do is be that voice and provide correct information out there.
- [13:43]
Dave
Yeah, yeah. Public trust right now with law enforcement is kind of at a crossroads and we feel like real voices matter and if we're not going, we can't just sit back and complain. We have to jump into the game and do something. And we felt like this was our opportunity to get out there and voice some things that need to be said.
- [14:02]
Steve
Yeah. And it makes it a little bit easier since we're not representing a department or an agency. It is just Steve and I, we've taken ourselves out of that and it's just us talking about our experiences and what we do.
- [14:16]
Anya Cain
Yeah. And I love how your show really does get into the big picture of some of these topics, you know, just like what it's really like to be in that work and to kind of live that. And one thing I was curious about is, you know, in terms of how you're going to tackle doing the podcast and tackle the show, what can listeners expect in terms of topics? Are you gonna be going into cases? Is it more of, like, high level things about the realities of law enforcement? What are your thoughts on that?
- [14:40]
Dave
So we started the detectives podcast because, frankly, we were just getting tired of, you know, the Hollywood crime shows, all of the copaganda that we see on the podcast misrepresenting the job. People within our profession that were just using every opportunity to take advantage of somebody else's, you know, terrible situation just so that they can get 15 minutes of fame. So we wanted to kind of make sure that we were grounded in reality and create something that was much more honest, much more real life.
- [15:12]
Steve
Yeah. I think what listeners can expect to our our podcast is that they're going to hear an unfiltered, like Steve said, an honest and a fair perspective on law enforcement and the criminal justice system. We're not here just to talk about everything good that law enforcement and policing is doing right now. We're also going to be critical in showing where we need to improve and what we can do better. And we are not focused on the entertainment aspect of it so much as much as we're focused on the. The integrity and the accountability aspect of the show. So we want, when someone listens to our podcast, we want them to say, I didn't know that, or I had no idea that that that even existed in our system. And we are going to right now really look at the job as a whole, specifically what detectives and the criminal investigations does on a daily basis and how we work through things. And then we may, you know, start diving into some other topics and go into cases as well.
- [16:19]
Anya Cain
All the sunscreen in the world won't save you from getting burned by your wireless bill this summer.
- [16:25]
Kevin Greenlee
That's why we made the switch to Mint Mobile. We live on our phones thanks to being true crime podcasters with a whole array of sources on different murder cases, Mint Mobile allows us to talk to them as much as we want for way less money. Right now, for a limited time, Mint mobile is offering three months of its unlimited premium wireless service for only $15 a month. And there's something for everyone. All their plans boast unlimited talk and text and high speed data from the world's largest 5G network.
- [16:59]
Anya Cain
I use Mint and you should too. It's awesome. See, we are constantly talking on our mobile phones for work. We need to be able to reach our sources wherever or whenever. In the past, we found there was nothing worse than being on a call with a source, talking about a murder case of all things, and then having it suddenly drop. That's fricking ominous. No one wants that. With Mint, we never have those issues. We know we're getting robust, comprehensive coverage for a great price this year.
- [17:26]
Kevin Greenlee
Skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get this new customer offer and your 3 month unlimited wireless plan for his 15 bucks a month@mintmobile.com msheet that's mintmobile.com.
- [17:41]
Anya Cain
Msheet upfront payment of $45 required, equivalent to doll month limited time new customer offer for the first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. We're all true crime people here. Murder sheet people, if you will. So we all realize that nightmares can come true and scary, awful stuff can happen that makes us all realize that investing in home security is important.
- [18:11]
Kevin Greenlee
We all want our homes to be safe places we can relax and feel protected and secure. For us, Simplisafe is a big part of that equation. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. This terrific home security system is a great fit for everyone.
- [18:27]
Anya Cain
We strongly recommend SimpliSafe to anyone looking to up their home security game. Simplisafe is perfect for renters and homeowners alike. No drills required.
- [18:38]
Kevin Greenlee
Plus it's affordable and can be tailored to your budget. Their monitoring plans start around a dollar a day.
- [18:45]
Anya Cain
We trust them to protect our home and that's because we know they're always looking out for customers like us. They're also always innovating to keep us Safer. For instance, their new active guard outdoor protection stops break ins before they even happen. Their agents can even call out to and talk to lurkers, switch on the spotlights, and then even call the police.
- [19:06]
Kevin Greenlee
There's no contracts or hidden fees, so. Join the 4 million plus Americans who trust SimpliSafe with their homes and families and businesses.
- [19:17]
Anya Cain
Visit SimpliSafe.com msheet to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's simplisafe.com msheet there's no safe like SimpliSafe.
- [19:33]
Kevin Greenlee
You say you're not focusing on the entertainment aspect, but I gotta say, it is a very entertaining show. It's kind of like going out to a restaurant or a bar after work and sitting down with two guys who have a lot of really great experience and insight and they're just telling you how it is.
- [19:50]
Steve
Oh, thank you.
- [19:51]
Dave
Well, a lot of that's because it's usually after work and we're usually drinking. Yeah, that's why you have that feel.
- [19:59]
Kevin Greenlee
I knew. I.
- [20:00]
Steve
We appreciate that though, because that is, that is, you know, what we really want to put out there. And that it's just opening that conversation and having that honest dialogue, I think is just great.
- [20:12]
Dave
Yeah. So our goal is that our episodes aren't the end all, beat all of the conversation. These are just conversation starters. This is just things that off the cuff, an idea or something that's come about, a question that we want to try to put some answers to. And our hope is that we really start attacking as we move through this process of creating this, that we start tackling some of the harder questions, having some of the harder conversations about law enforcement, about the criminal justice system, about, you know, police work and our profession and how it needs to progress and become better about our mental health. You know, those things that aren't talked about, especially in a public forum by police officers, about police officers.
- [21:00]
Anya Cain
Can you tell us about some of the kind of topics you've tackled already? I know you just came out with one recently on dark humor, things like that. So I guess where have you been so far and sort of how has the audience reacted?
- [21:11]
Steve
Yeah, right off the bat, we wanted to do our. Our first episode was Hollywood versus Reality, because I think Steve and I, that is what we get asked the most. Or when you watch a cop show as, as a detective, you just sit there and think, well, that's not how it works at all. And that honestly has shaped the public's view of criminal Investigations and law enforcement. So that was the first one that we have that's available. And I think it's important just because a lot of people don't have much interaction with actual detectives or with actual law enforcement officers. So it really shows what is in reality or what you're just seeing on tv.
- [21:50]
Dave
Yeah. I'll get a lot of people ask, you know, is it like Law and Order, you know, what you do? And I said, no, it's more like Reno 91 1. I'll be honest with you. If there's a live, there's a show that's close to reality, it would be, it would be probably that more than.
- [22:02]
Steve
Anything, I do a lot of new boot goofing. So.
- [22:05]
Dave
And then we, you know, we thought the natural progression after that would be to move into the investigative and just kind of start covering for people. What it's really like as an investigator being called to a crime scene or getting that call, what goes through your head? What are the steps that have to be taken? What do you have to make sure of? You know, and it's just a walk through a real investigation and how they actually unfold.
- [22:26]
Steve
Yeah. From the moment, you know, that case lands on your desk to you turn it into the prosecutor's office, there are so many steps in between that I don't think TV or movies even talks about. And you had mentioned dark humor as well. That is definitely an aspect, I think, that is not spoken very much about law enforcement, but it is definitely one of the most misunderstood when it is. So I. I've heard, I don't know how many times, you know, from people saying, well, why, why do. When I watch tv, I see police officers laughing behind scene tape, especially at an incident that could be a homicide or something like that. And so we really dive into the dark humor aspect of it and how we use it to protect our mental health while working these traumatic events.
- [23:20]
Dave
That was actually a tough one for us. We went back and forth on whether or not we should be doing it. And at the end of the day, I think we felt like the added value of kind of dipping our toe in the water of mental health was a good start for us to start getting that conversation going, get that honesty out there.
- [23:36]
Steve
Absolutely. And then the biggest one that we've used in interrogations, which being a detective, that is your wheelhouse of what you do on a daily basis. And instead of seeing it from a five minute clip on a movie where it's. The interrogation is five minutes and it's a lot of yelling and fist slamming on the desk. You're gonna see. Yeah. You're gonna see the entire aspect of it and what goes into an interview or interrogation before we even step into the room. Right?
- [24:07]
Dave
Yeah. And we have to take people kind of, again, behind the scenes, behind the curtain, because there's a lot more mentally that goes into these things than just walking in a room and asking, did you do it? Guiding somebody to that level where they're ready to tell you that they may have done one of the most horrific things that a human can do to another human being. That guide is a lot more difficult than what initially somebody would think. And it doesn't happen in 20 seconds like it does on most of your shows.
- [24:37]
Steve
If only we wish.
- [24:39]
Dave
But yeah. And then we have some other episodes that are coming up. You know, anything from the mundane, like report writing, which we all hate, but we felt like we had to explain the importance of it.
- [24:50]
Steve
Oh, it's huge. I mean, and maybe that's something that people would find interesting, that something as simple as typing the report can literally make or break your case, if not make or break your career, just on the type of reports that you write. And that's something we really want to dive into, even though for us, it's one of the more boring aspects that we don't like doing. But it's so important hearing you guys.
- [25:16]
Kevin Greenlee
Talk about these topics that you've already covered and the ones that are coming up. I know a lot of people out there listening will have a couple of obvious questions, like, how often do these episodes come out and how can I listen to them?
- [25:27]
Steve
Yeah, absolutely. And we appreciate all the support, but the new episodes for us will come out every Tuesday, and we are on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Amazon. If anyone does want to listen early and without any ads, they can join our Patreon as early access to episodes, which will be every Sunday.
- [25:47]
Anya Cain
You mentioned earlier this concept of true crime being very popular, but perhaps oftentimes true crime unfortunately doesn't necessarily foster an accurate understanding of law enforcement or the criminal justice system as a whole. So it's like a lot of people are talking about it. Maybe there's not a lot of understanding or people are understanding, but they're not getting the level of nuance that can happen. And so, I guess, what are your thoughts on the True Crime sort of boom and other podcasts within True Crime?
- [26:15]
Dave
Primarily, one of the things that Dave and I talked about to go with this and what our story and our voice was going to be like within True Crime, the One thing that we wanted to make sure of is that we're not here to turn anyone's tragedy into entertainment. That's not going to be our goal. We want to use real life stories, we want to use real life examples, but we're not, we're not premising the whole episode on somebody's tragedy, this awful thing that happened to someone. So I think that's one thing that we're seeing more and more in the true crime is you'll have, when you do have, on the rare occasion, officers that speak out. That's usually what it's based on. You know, this horrific crime that they worked, this horrific crime scene that they were in. And we're talking about, you know, stupid stuff like paperwork, you know, I mean, so. But at the same time, any of those officers that are speaking out, if you were to ask them, where do you spend most of your time? It's not in that horrific crime scene, it's not solving horrific crimes, it's doing the paperwork. So I think that's one of the things that we wanted to really separate ourselves on, is that we don't buy into that sensationalism that we keep the reality, we keep the undertones of it is when we say something, you can expect that it's going to be from a real place, from real people that have been there.
- [27:31]
Steve
Yeah. And I think this is just a huge opportunity because of the interest in true crime. And, and I think that is just makes it that much more important to where someone can go and listen to a true crime podcast like yours as well, like the murder sheet and what we wanted to do, and that's why I said you inspired us, is that having this popularity and true crime people should have a place to go where they can actually get truthful, factual information and not just, you know, the good, you know, a lot of podcasts that we've listened to of, you know, it's just maybe talking about the good stuff of law enforcement. Well, unfortunately, we're not perfect. And I think having some, some place or a podcast to go that people can listen to and they hear the good things we're doing, they hear the bad things we're doing, and then opening that communication of, you know, we love people to reach out to us and say, well, what about this? Or you didn't talk much about this, just help create a better understanding of.
- [28:34]
Anya Cain
The profession in general, that makes a lot of sense. And I will say, like, I feel like, I mean, just listening to your episodes, I feel like I can take some of those learnings from you guys and apply them to other cases where I might be following. And, oh, this makes sense why they would do this, because I understand this is how the process tends to work. So it actually like it. It's a good educational experience that can kind of. You can take across different cases and have that knowledge base you mentioned, like, you know, things to, like. I think you used the word copaganda earlier and, you know, this concept of copaganda and, you know, you know, portraying the police in a really positive, sort of almost perfect light. And then we've also seen the trend of sort of like people deciding all cops are bad. So it's like, you know, it seems, I mean, so many things are so polarized these days, but there seems to be a real polarization in terms of perception of law enforcement either extremely positive to the point being perfect or extremely negative. And so I guess, you know, how are. How are you guys planning to kind of like, I guess, navigate that really polarized situation and, you know, being fair, but also critical of law enforcement in that context?
- [29:41]
Dave
Yeah, I mean, our. Our whole goal is to. It's not to defend or condemn the badge. We're here just to give an honest account of where we are today in policing. Some of the issues, some of the, you know, we're here to celebrate the successes that we have, but also to call out some of the fractures that we have. And where do we need to go to heal those fractures? Where do we need to go to make our profession better? What does the future look like for our profession in this day and age with AI coming out and everything else that we have going on, and the us versus them mentality of the communities. Where do we go from there? And so that's where we want to try to bridge that gap between the communities and how they feel, between law enforcement and how they feel. Why is law enforcement's response the way it is? Why is the community respond so negatively when law enforcement's just trying to help? We want to have those conversations and really kind of call out a lot of that kind of behavior, those kind of topics. And so that's why we're not really. We're not really dead set on either side. We're not going to. We want to go where the evidence leads us because that's what we do ultimately. That's. That's who we are.
- [30:55]
Steve
Yeah, I think law enforcement in general, there is just this inherent veil that always has been there. And I hope that Steve and I can show the human side that's behind that. And we have this opportunity to build that trust back between law enforcement and the public just by seeing what actually happens. Just giving them that place to go where they can hear it from us or have a conversation with us. That's. That's the important part. And if we can just, you know, pull that veil back a little bit enough to where I think at the end of the day, people will see, wow, they're just humans trying to do a job, just like I am. And they're really not covering anything up. It is just the nature of the beast that they work. I think there's only positive that can come from that.
- [31:49]
Dave
But we also want to hold our profession to the highest standard. And so that means that we have to challenge some myths, that we have to admit some problems, and again, just, Just have that dialogue, that open, honest dialogue to confront some of this.
- [32:04]
Anya Cain
Yeah, I will say, like, just from covering some controversial cases, I do feel like there is an element of, like, those are two sides of the same coin. Because it's like when you're holding people up on a pedestal and then everything is imperfect, then the suspicion kicks in, whereas.
- [32:18]
Steve
Oh, absolutely.
- [32:19]
Anya Cain
You know, if you're like, well, everyone's human infallible, and, you know, now we can analyze it through that lens. It's, it's, it's less so.
- [32:26]
Steve
Yeah. Like I mentioned earlier, not many people have interactions with law enforcement officers or detectives, so they don't get to experience that human side of it. They don't get to just sit down. If they do, it's probably one of the worst days of their life. And depending on that interaction that they have with that officer detective, then that basically just kind of sums up law enforcement in general for them. Right?
- [32:53]
Kevin Greenlee
Yeah. We've often had the experience of people coming up to us and asking, oh, is what we're seeing in the press about this case true or not true? And I'm sure as law enforcement officers, you've had that sort of thing happen too. It's just there's. There seems to be a real appetite out there for people to really want to understand what the work is like and what, what this job is like.
- [33:18]
Steve
Well, absolutely, I agree. We hear it usually at every family function, Christmas dinners, Thanksgiving. It is whatever case is in the news, that is what your family or friends are going to be asking you about. And it is interesting because when you hear the questions, you think, wow, this is what I do on a daily basis. And it doesn't seem like it's a big deal to me, but when you start hearing the interest from people outside the profession, you're like, oh, wow, this would be something that I can explain and tell them about. And it improves how they see the profession and how they see detectives or what they know about it.
- [34:00]
Dave
Yeah, that's mostly my mom, I'll be honest with you. She calls me for, you know, she sees three police cars pass her window. She thinks I know what's going on and I don't even live there, so I have no idea why they're there, what they're doing. Just in case you're listening, mom. But you know, we have to try to answer those. And sometimes people don't really like the answer that we give them to or, you know, because it is kind of the mundane. Or, you know, sometimes it's like, well, why didn't they do this? It's like, well, they can't. Right. You know, they don't understand a lot of times the rules that we're bound by and the limitations that we as law enforcement officers have and that we don't really have the ability to change some of the things that they want changed. So we try to get that truth out there as well.
- [34:45]
Steve
Yeah, that's huge of, you know, why don't you just do this? Well, yeah, that's impossible for me to do or, you know, that's illegal.
- [34:53]
Dave
Right.
- [34:54]
Steve
We can't just do that. Yeah, I agree.
- [34:57]
Anya Cain
I was curious in terms of, you know, there is this weird kind of dichotomy where we're awashin information about law enforcement crimes and whatnot and fiction about law enforcement and crimes and whatnot. But at the same time there is this sort of perception which I think is somewhat accurate, that sometimes law enforcement agencies, you know, are not, you know, they can kind of not really share a lot of information or kind of what it's like behind the scenes. And I'm just curious, like, why, why is that?
- [35:22]
Steve
I think overall it is. I, I would say it starts from the root of just trust. There is not that trust between detectives or police officers with anyone in general because of a majority of what we do. Unfortunately, a lot of people lie to us. Right. And so you're setting yourself up to where then you start thinking, well, I can't trust this, I can't trust that. And it's, it's not a good way to be. And I think if that transparency was better, we'd see both sides benefit from it. Not just, you know, trying to be all hush hush about things. And, and of course there are things that we need to do to protect investigations. And I think speaking about that and being open about that, then people understand, oh, well, the reason why they didn't say this is because it affected them in trial and could have ruined a case versus us being hush hush on stuff that isn't important like that. And then just being transparent and open about it, then I think that would go a lot farther as well.
- [36:27]
Dave
Yeah. And I think officers, individual officers, have a real fear of being misunderstood when they try to talk humanly or, you know, like they have thoughts and feelings because, you know, not only do you have to worry about your own legal liability and concerns, but also your department because everything that you say becomes, you know, a megaphone of your department. Right, wrong or otherwise. And that's one of the reasons that we wanted to distance ourselves from that so that we don't have that restriction on us. We can say what we want. As Dave and Steve. We're not talking for any organization, we're not talking for our department. So you can't go back on them because that's not who we're talking as. But there's also this cultural norm and tribalism, I think, that exists in law enforcement where we're very closed off. I think that's always been kind of, you know, I don't know if it's a result of the us versus them mentality that exists or if it may be what started the us versus them mentality. I don't know. We haven't gotten to that episode yet. We'll have to explore that a little deeper. But you do want to try to protect your career over reform. You don't want to affect your job and what you have and how you provide for your family because the community wants you to act or say or do something differently. So you kind of start becoming this defensive posture and you kind of start leaning into yourselves because you, like Dave said, you have nobody else to trust but each other. And I think that really restricts people coming and talking and speaking out because you don't want to go against what their norm is.
- [38:07]
Steve
Right.
- [38:09]
Anya Cain
I'm wondering, can you tell us a little bit about the process of starting this podcast and what it's been like to sort of start getting into that, oh, boy.
- [38:20]
Steve
Like I said, kind of in the beginning, it obviously is a podcast about what we do on a daily basis, but the actual podcasting part of it is something that, that we have not had any experience in. So it has been challenging, but it has been very, very fun and interesting to do. I, I Think, you know, Steve and I work together and spend a majority of our day together anyway, so then when we're done with work and we're just spending more time together and I, you know, when we're. We're working on the podcast as co host, it just, it's natural. We just are always around each other. It's just, it comes natural. And I definitely like to say that I probably call him and talk to him way more than his wife does, so.
- [39:07]
Dave
Yes. And she would say that as well. Yeah. And I mean, this was a long time coming. Honestly, this wasn't something that we just up and decided to do. We've been having conversations for quite some time about, you know, how do we get a voice. We've had frustrations with this for so long. We didn't know how to get out there. We didn't know what to do, if we could even do this. We still don't, you know, we don't know if this is going to cause us problems in the long run. We haven't really look down. We're kind of uncharted territory. But the conversations that we have and have had for quite some time, it just seemed natural to bring to the mic. So when the podcast idea did come up, it didn't take very long for it to take hold. I mean, it wasn't a very long conversation. It was a, yeah, let's do this. We need to get moving on something like this. Now. It did consist of a lot of conversations. As Dave said, we were on the phone, still are quite a bit, and we even catch ourselves have a conversation. We'll be talking about something, a topic or whatever, and we're starting the back and forth and we're like, hey, hang on. This is the episode. Let's stop.
- [40:11]
Steve
Yeah, hit the record button.
- [40:12]
Dave
Yeah, we need to get into the podcast realm. Hurry. Like our Batcave. For me, I will say that just the short time that we've been able to do this, as challenging as it is, it's still been very cathartic. It's been an amazing journey. Dave has made it so much easier being a good partner as he is and just being able to take on all that he's taken on. Because, I mean, this is a lot more. More of an added stress and expense than just doing a security side gig. So we're hoping to make something of this. We're very passionate about it. So it's been something that we've really kind of formed to be our own.
- [40:49]
Steve
Yeah. Steve and I have worked together for 10 years. Over 10 years now, and have been friends for that long. And just like he said, we were having these same conversations with each other about the criminal justice system, about our jobs, and we just sat there and thought, you know, with everything we hear from people that we've talked to, family, friends, or seen online, why not just put a mic in front of us and have these same conversations? And maybe that does open some dialogue, and who knows what that can help or fix.
- [41:26]
Dave
Yeah. And we try not to script things, and we do that intentionally because we feel like the back and forth that we have has to be natural. And if it doesn't come across as natural, it's not going to be of real value or substance. So we just try to kind of create an idea, and then we each, you know, kind of go with our own thoughts, and then we play off of each other as the episode's happening. So a lot of the reactions that we have in the episodes. Well, all the reactions that we have in the episode are real. Yeah, they're genuine.
- [41:54]
Steve
Yeah.
- [41:56]
Anya Cain
That's awesome. I will, I will tell you, I think it's a testament to your relationship that you were willing to do a podcast together. I know when Kevin and I started, you know, seeing each other, he kept pitching a podcast to me, and I only did it after we got engaged, basically. Right.
- [42:10]
Steve
Like, we're like, I need some commitment here.
- [42:12]
Anya Cain
Yeah. Because I was like, I am like, a podcast is a doozy. And I think, I think your relationship seems really strong and, you know, comes across on, on the show itself, which is awesome.
- [42:23]
Steve
I don't know. I'm a little jealous now. I.
- [42:26]
Dave
She got a ring.
- [42:26]
Steve
Yeah, I got what I get, Steve. Gee, yeah. Look at the commitment there.
- [42:33]
Anya Cain
You need to this, right? No, no, I'll take a watch.
- [42:36]
Steve
A watch would be nice. I mean, I love it.
- [42:39]
Anya Cain
I'm curious, like, has any of it been particularly challenging? I mean, it really. You make it sound easy. So I'm going to say that I don't think that's true of all new podcasts, but I really do feel like you're. It sounds very polished and like, you guys have been doing it for years, but have, have you run into any, like, places where you're like, oh, my gosh, what are we doing?
- [42:58]
Steve
Gosh, thank you. Yeah. First of all, yeah, I, I, we, we really appreciate that, but it is a learning cur over the technology aspect, I would say the software aspect. I don't think people realize how much goes into making a podcast and polishing and having a good Finished product that people are going to want to listen to. And I know you guys know that you guys do a fantastic job. So it was like, we see what you're doing. Other podcasts are doing. How do we even try to get to that level?
- [43:34]
Dave
Yeah.
- [43:34]
Steve
And there. There is a learning curve just behind that aspect of it. And then you bring in what Steve talked about of just. It is extremely difficult for detectives and people in law enforcement to start opening up and talking about these things that we're talking about because of that mistrust or whatever that relationship looks like. So that is a difficult aspect of it as well. But. But we're working through it, and I think, like Steve said, it's been. It's been really helpful, I think.
- [44:04]
Dave
Yeah. And developing some of the ideas. I mean, we just. There's a lot of things that we've. We've brought forward that we'd like to do episodes on. And, man, just getting. Getting through the mental pull of, you know, okay, kind of like with the dark humor. Is this something that needs to be done? Are we doing it for the right reason? And how do we do it? Respectfully, when we talk about things like mental health, when we talk about, you know, what police officers go through and the things that you see and that you do, we don't want shock value, but at the same time, we also want reality. And sometimes that reality is very shocking. So, you know, we kind of keep playing off of that. So that's been kind of a. I think a journey for us in and of itself is just developing what kind of programming are we looking for? What do we want to do moving forward has been. It's been a fun part, but it's also been a. It's been a challenging part as well, emotionally.
- [44:56]
Steve
Oh, yeah, we've loved it so far. It's. It's. It's honestly been great.
- [45:01]
Kevin Greenlee
One fun part about it that I'm looking forward to and excited about is you're gonna hang out with us at CrimeCon.
- [45:07]
Dave
Cannot wait.
- [45:07]
Steve
Absolutely. We're ready. Yeah, we are. We are excited. This is the first time ever attending either of us for Crimecon. And we're just, you know, we. We don't have a booth or anything, but we're love to have the.
- [45:20]
Dave
We'll be skulking in the background of yours.
- [45:22]
Steve
Yes.
- [45:23]
Dave
Where people can find us if they want to look.
- [45:25]
Steve
Yeah. We love the opportunity to. To hang out with you guys, but I think it's. It's going to be a. To really meet with listeners and have that in person, talk and dialogue with them. And, you know, we'd love anyone listening this to. To come up to us and find us at CrimeCon and, you know, ask some questions and, and figure out what it's really like being a detective or. Or working in criminal investigations. And we'd love to talk about those topics on. On the podcast.
- [45:55]
Dave
Yeah, and we want to make sure that. I mean, one of the things that we really wanted out of this was that we would be interactive at some point in time, that we can build a listener base and be able to interact and, you know, so this is our first opportunity to really kind of start doing that. So we're very excited to see what we can accomplish out there.
- [46:14]
Kevin Greenlee
What kind of reactions have you been getting from your audience so far? I know you've just started.
- [46:19]
Steve
Yeah, no, it's been. It's been really great. And again, I cannot thank everyone enough for their support for this journey and our podcast. We. We've gotten tons of great feedback already, and it is exactly what we hoped for of a lot of. I did not know that. And that is just so great for us to hear because I feel like we are. That education aspect is coming through where someone can just sit back and think, wow, it's completely different than what I thought, what your job entails and what about this? And it just gives you, you know, again, that, that transparency. And it just seems that people are really enjoying listening to it and hearing our. Our perspective.
- [47:02]
Dave
Yeah, it's a. It's a little strange because, I mean, with our job, you usually get, like, immediate gratification because we're face to face with people and, and here we're, you know, putting something out, and we may have recorded it, it, you know, two, three weeks ago. And now I'm listening to it again almost for the first time, you know, when we finally put it out. And then, you know, the. The analytics that we're getting are a bunch of, you know, little numbers and lines and things like that.
- [47:27]
Kevin Greenlee
So.
- [47:28]
Dave
But, you know, if. If people are engaged and people are. Are wanting to come back, that is what makes us the happiest.
- [47:34]
Steve
Yeah, it feels like we're actually connecting and, and opening a good dialogue between everyone and. And we want to improve and talk about what people want to hear. And so we would absolutely love anyone to reach out to us at our email, the detectives podcastmail.com and we would love to hear the questions or topics that you want covered, and we'd be more than happy to discuss them or.
- [47:58]
Dave
Suggestions about Dave's editing Sure, yeah.
- [48:03]
Steve
Absolutely.
- [48:04]
Kevin Greenlee
We had a lot of disagreement about editing styles, by the way.
- [48:07]
Anya Cain
We fought so much about the editing of our show. People don't realize this. There was a huge, huge debate. I'm a perfectionist.
- [48:13]
Steve
Perceptionist.
- [48:14]
Anya Cain
That helps. And then Kevin, all like, I can't hear any weird buzzing sound that's driving our audience insane.
- [48:20]
Steve
Boy, did we just experience that conversation. I'm like, steve, don't you hear this here? What is it?
- [48:25]
Dave
High pitch, low pitch? I don't know. I can't.
- [48:27]
Steve
I'm turning up his mic and then I talk and hurt his ears.
- [48:29]
Dave
And yes, fun time.
- [48:32]
Anya Cain
Like reliving the talks for us. It's. I, I remember, I remember in our. We were living in Brooklyn and I remember we just got into this huge, huge fight about like, you know, don't you hear this? This sounds terrible. And he's like, I don't hear it. Oh, my goodness.
- [48:43]
Steve
I don't hear anything.
- [48:44]
Anya Cain
There's always a. There's always one person who much more persnickety and both people are somehow wrong, honestly, because of course. Yeah, yeah. But it's, it's, it's. I think you guys are doing a great job and I guess, you know, so it sounds like people can contact you at, at the email. People can come up. If there's two guys standing around our table at Crimecon, it's probably you. So they should come up and say, hi.
- [49:07]
Steve
We'll have T shirts with the detectives on it. So we're making it really easy.
- [49:12]
Anya Cain
Okay. So no, no approaching two random guys, but if they see the T shirts, go for it.
- [49:16]
Steve
Yep, you're. You're good for it.
- [49:17]
Dave
And if you just yell our name because, I mean, you rarely have another Dave or Steve.
- [49:22]
Steve
They're pretty unique names.
- [49:24]
Anya Cain
So we'll probably answer primecon people to keep take note. And then are you on social media anywhere? Can people follow you?
- [49:32]
Steve
Yeah, absolutely. They can follow us on at the Detectives PC or they can also follow us on at Triton Publish as well.
- [49:42]
Anya Cain
And I guess what are your future plans other than crime con, other than continuing to sort of do this journey? Do you have anything that comes to mind as far as what you're working on?
- [49:49]
Steve
Oh, gosh. We have so much that we're working on and. Well, first, we would work with you guys anytime. We love, we love talking to you guys, love hanging out with you guys. We always end up having a good, honest conversation, which is what we like, so any time for that. But right now, I think what, what listeners are going to hear Is that we are setting up all of the basic information about being a detective and working in criminal investigations. And then we are working on more in depth episodes and miniseries and different topics that we're really excited about. And the first one that we are going to hit the ground running with is CSAM or child sex abuse material. And we pick that because it is probably the most important work that we do that. Steve and I have both worked these types of cases and we believe that it is one of the worst type of investigations you can work as a detective. And having children of our own, it really hits home for us and it's just something that we had to really get out in front of and like Steve said, you know, make this known that this is an issue that is continuing to happen.
- [51:03]
Dave
Yeah. In our conversations, you know, one of the things we talk about, there is no case that we work that is darker or more damaging or just, you know, brutally emotional than these cases. And yet we are just kind of astonished at why, why is there no conversation about them? I mean, where, where is everybody on this? Right. We, we have, we see so many, you know, wars being raged against drugs and against poverty and where's the children? You know, why are we not doing something about this? And you know, historically you've just never, it's crept up from time to time, but it's never been priority one. And we feel like at some point somebody's got to, to lead the charge on this.
- [51:50]
Steve
Yeah. And it's going to be, you know, being honest, probably a tough listen for some people. It is a tough one. Like I said, one of the worst things we have to work as detectives, you are, you are seeing videos and images of children being sexually abused, tortured and killed. And I don't know, like Steve said, why this conversation isn't more out there. Like he said, we have that war on drugs, we have that war on hunger, we have all this. Where's the war on csam? That, that's what I want to know. Why isn't this at the forefront? And I don't know if it's. A majority of people don't want to think about this stuff or they just want to pretend that it's not happening. But unfortunately in our world, we see it almost every day now and it needs to stop. We need to do something about it.
- [52:39]
Dave
Yeah. And it's. The series isn't intended to be a shock value, you know, headline chasing series. We're just taking more of a comprehensive, multi episode approach to try to talk to people that we can talk to that we could, you know, you know, maybe some legislators, maybe attorneys, you know, those kind of things to where we can find out why this isn't the priority that it should be and what needs to happen for that, for it to become that priority. So that's kind of our goal with this. And you know, our listeners, any listeners that are, you know, tuning in can expect to be uncomfortable. They can expect to probably be very angry, but they can also expect to walk away much more informed and more aware of the problem, the scope of the problem and what the next steps should be.
- [53:30]
Steve
Yeah, absolutely. Just keep an open mind and bear with us because I, I, I think it is extremely important, such an important.
- [53:37]
Anya Cain
And heavy topic, such a hard topic to listen to, but really important for anyone who has kids or even just cares about kids. Well, being, I mean, it's, it's, and as I love what you just said because it makes so much sense. Like, it's often talked about and framed as in, like, how can parents protect their children or how can older children protect themselves? Why are we putting it entirely on the public? Why? Maybe we could do something about the people who are doing it. You know, I mean, and I know there, there are things that can be done about the people who are doing it, but it just, I totally agree with you. It's like, it seems like we're, the public discourse can be focused on just, just reacting rather than being proactive.
- [54:14]
Steve
Yeah, yeah, absolutely agree.
- [54:16]
Dave
And that's one of the things that we want to expose and teach people about is this is not just, you know, one guy in the basement, you know, looking up pictures. This is a, a culture, you know, this is a network of criminals. And there is a hierarchy. There is, there, there is a form to it, you know, and that's what we need to start combating. This is a global problem. This is not a local problem.
- [54:40]
Steve
No, it is not, not just based here. It, you said worldwide reach.
- [54:46]
Anya Cain
I, I commend you guys for doing that. And I, I think, you know, it's like prior to the mafia being sort of identified publicly and like scrutinized there, there wasn't necessarily a huge understanding publicly of, okay, there's a problem with organized crime here. So this is organized crime of a different and I would argue more heinous fashion, and people should be aware of what that looks like so it can be com. Combated.
- [55:08]
Steve
Yeah, that's, that's what we thought if we just had this open conversation about this. And you know, we thought if, if the public or Legislators, if they saw the videos or knew what we were doing, maybe things would start getting changed. I. I think you would have.
- [55:25]
Dave
Those would look much different if they had to see just a fraction of what we've seen.
- [55:29]
Steve
Yes. And. And that could be just, again, our fault of there is no communication from our side about these things. There's no one knows these things are happening or that we have to investigate these things or experience these things. That's something we need to work on too.
- [55:45]
Dave
Yeah. So we have projects kind of in the work. We have a couple other series ideas on top of just our normal episodic ventures, but at the same time just want to reiterate that we want to be interactive. We want to be responsive to what people want to know. We. We know what we know, but we want to know what they want to know.
- [56:07]
Steve
I don't know.
- [56:08]
Dave
There's a lot of knowing in there. I understand that might get a little loopy.
- [56:11]
Steve
I knew what you meant, but yeah.
- [56:14]
Dave
So. Yeah. So we also want to leave some room to be able to get some ideas from other people out there that we might be able to run with and jump on board with.
- [56:25]
Kevin Greenlee
Well, I just want to say again, it's a great podcast. You're great, guys. I really can't recommend the podcast highly enough.
- [56:34]
Anya Cain
Yeah, people need to listen to this. Like, seriously, I think everyone's gonna get so much out of this and just your real world experience and just sort of common sense approach is very much appreciated. So. Yeah.
- [56:44]
Kevin Greenlee
And I feel on a personal level that my knowledge of the law enforcement and how it works has really been enriched by some of the conversations I've had with both of you over the years. And so now this is an opportunity for listeners to get that same experience.
- [57:01]
Dave
Thank you so much.
- [57:02]
Steve
Yeah, thank you guys again for having us and for all the kind words. We. It really means a lot to us. Thank you. And we'd appreciate anyone that. That gave us a listen as well. Thank you.
- [57:12]
Anya Cain
Thank you guys for coming on the show and yep, everyone listen to the Detectives. I believe it's on all the major podcast platforms.
- [57:19]
Steve
Yeah, Spotify, Apple, podcasts, Amazon as well.
- [57:22]
Kevin Greenlee
And we're linked to it in the show notes.
- [57:24]
Anya Cain
We will be linking to it in our show notes. Absolutely. Well, thank you guys so much.
- [57:29]
Steve
Awesome. Thank you guys. Appreciate it.
- [57:30]
Anya Cain
Subscribe to the Detectives and listen so we can talk about it with you. We'll include a link to their website in our show notes. I know they're available on Spotify, on Apple, on Amazon. So you've Got some options. We really feel Murder Sheet listeners are going to love this show. Their ethical approach is amazing. And I just feel like you're getting so much information in a very entertaining format. So check it out and you can also email them@thedetivespodcastmail.com and we have a.
- [57:58]
Kevin Greenlee
Lot of respect for these guys.
- [57:59]
Anya Cain
They're awesome.
- [58:01]
Kevin Greenlee
Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us@murdersheetmail.com if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.
- [58:21]
Anya Cain
If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com murdersheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www. Buymeacoffee.com murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.
- [58:45]
Kevin Greenlee
Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the web@kevintg.com if you're looking to talk with.
- [58:56]
Anya Cain
Other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening. So we want to shout out one of our wonderful sponsors right now, and that sponsor is Happy Mammoth. This is a wonderful natural wellness brand. We've been using it and it's been terrific. They're a great solution if you feel like you might be dealing with some hormone disruptors. I mean, that kind of happens to everyone. It's in the air, it's in the food, it's in lots of different products.
- [59:36]
Kevin Greenlee
So it's really reduced your cravings.
- [59:38]
Anya Cain
Yeah, for me, it's. I mean, I get cranin nuts about my cravings sometimes. I will, you know, suddenly really want to Macintosh apples, which aren't even in season, and various other things. We all know I've been stealing a lot of cereal recently, or allegedly, I should say. And so to kind of help beat that, I've been using their Hormone Harmony supplement. It's just a supplement. You take it a couple of times, you know, couple doses. And I feel like it's boosted my gut health, to be honest. It's also something that women who are in perimenopause or menopause, they can use it and it's going to reduce your hot flashes. You're gonna have more energy, get to sleep better. So it's really good for women of all ages. But for me, the gut health element of it has been really special. So if you're interested for a limited time, you can get 15% off your entire first order@happy mammoth.com, just use the code msheet at checkout. That's happy mammoth.com and use the code msheet for 15% off. Today we're obsessed with our quince pieces. Is that fair to say?
- [60:35]
Kevin Greenlee
That's fair to say.
- [60:36]
Anya Cain
What is quints?
- [60:37]
Kevin Greenlee
Quince is a company. It lets you get really high quality clothing for very affordable prices.
- [60:43]
Anya Cain
They do that because they basically cut out the middleman. You're just getting cut him right out. Yeah, they're getting it from the artisans. They're giving it to you. It's wonderful. It's going to be 50 to 80% less than those of their competitors. And you're just going to get some wonderful things. We recently went shopping to get some summer styles. We'd previously gotten some winter styles, but we wanted to update. So we went on quints and we both got something. Let's talk about what we got. I got this wonderful a hundred percent European linen dress. It's a button front dress and it's in blue chambry stripe. I love this dress. I'm picky about dresses because, like, I feel like I'm have a weird shaped body and sometimes they cut me off in a weird way. This one just fits like a dream. I love the way it fits. It is very much a classic sort of style. So I'm not worried about it going out of style in like two minutes and then I'm looking foolish. It just looks like something I can wear for years and years. I know I'm going to be wearing this dress a lot this summer.
- [61:38]
Kevin Greenlee
I got a great shirt. I can't paint word pictures like you do, but I'm very happy with the shirt. I've gotten compliments on the shirt. It's a comfortable shirt.
- [61:47]
Anya Cain
For anyone who is interested in learning more about the products that we purchased, he got a hundred percent European linen utility shirt in martini olive. So I think it looks really cute. I think that you look very cute in it. So I love it.
- [62:01]
Kevin Greenlee
And keep watching our Facebook page because we will probably, if I convince her, take a picture of Anya wearing her dress and her beret.
- [62:10]
Anya Cain
Oh, I got a beret too, because Kevin insists on me buying new hats. So I got a little blue beret. And yeah, I, I just really. Quince is one of those brands. I just love working with them because it's just stuff that I love to kind of come back to and keep buying because I love what they're doing, I love how ethical they are, and I know that they're going to get me quality pieces fast. And with their wonderful return policy, you can try on different things, make sure the sizing's right for you. And it's just a great deal for Murder sheet listeners. So give your summer closet an upgrade with quints. Go to quince.commsheet for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I-n c-e.commsheet to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.commsheet.