Murder Sheet Podcast: Episode Summary

Title: Danger, Disappearances, and Divorce: A Conversation with Family Law Attorney Patricia McKinnon
Hosts: Áine Cain & Kevin Greenlee
Guest: Patricia McKinnon, Certified Family Law Specialist
Release Date: July 15, 2025

1. Introduction

In this compelling episode of Murder Sheet, hosts Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee delve into the intricate and often perilous world of family law with esteemed family law attorney Patricia McKinnon. The discussion explores the emotional and legal complexities that family law practitioners navigate, highlighting the intersection between personal turmoil and professional responsibility.

2. Understanding Family Law

Patricia McKinnon begins by defining family law, emphasizing its broad scope:

"Family law deals with highly personal matters. Marriages, divorces, parents, children, abuse, protection." (07:40)

She elaborates on various facets, including divorce, paternity, guardianships, and cases involving children in need of services (CHINS). Patricia notes the dynamic nature of family law, where each case is unique and intertwines with multiple legal disciplines, from intellectual property to criminal law.

3. Patricia's Path into Family Law

Patricia shares her unexpected journey into family law, influenced by personal circumstances:

"I was in the process of filing my own divorce from my first husband... I volunteered for political work and through that, I landed a position representing civil cases involving CHINS and termination of parental rights (TPR)." (10:29)

Despite initial skepticism from her superiors, Patricia thrived in her role, developing a deep understanding of the emotional and legal stakes involved in family disputes.

4. Navigating Dangerous Territory

The conversation shifts to the inherent dangers in family law. Patricia recounts instances where attorneys face threats and violence due to the volatile nature of their cases:

"Family law is a dangerous area of law to practice in... Physical danger... It’s not just Indiana, it’s nationwide." (60:16)

She narrates specific cases, including an Indianapolis attorney targeted by an ex-spouse and a magistrate's tragic death, underscoring the real-life risks lawyers encounter.

5. Emotional Toll and Coping Mechanisms

Patricia discusses the emotional challenges professionals face in family law:

"You have to be able to separate yourself from your client's emotions... If you take all that on and you can't distance yourself from it, you're going to crash and burn." (78:59)

She highlights the importance of mental health support, referencing her involvement with the Judges and Lawyers Assistance Program, which provides counseling and support groups for attorneys dealing with grief, addiction, or situational depression.

6. Misconceptions About Family Law

Addressing common misconceptions, Patricia clarifies what family law attorneys can and cannot do:

"Attorneys don't always have all the facts... Don’t expect us to be magicians who can change the other side’s behavior." (90:36)

She emphasizes the necessity of honesty between clients and attorneys, explaining the legal ramifications of withholding information and the critical role of transparent communication in successful case outcomes.

7. Intersection of Family and Criminal Law

Patricia explores how family law often intersects with criminal law, particularly in cases involving domestic violence and child abduction:

"Protective orders can be civil or criminal... Domestic violence cases can escalate to life-threatening situations for everyone involved." (37:58)

She discusses the processes surrounding protective orders, custody battles, and the legal protections in place to prevent violence, while also acknowledging their limitations.

8. Memorable Cases and Lessons Learned

Sharing poignant anecdotes, Patricia recounts cases that have profoundly impacted her practice:

• Guardianship and Child Safety:
  A case involving a great-grandmother fighting for custody of a disabled child, where Patricia skillfully cross-examined the opposing party, leading to a favorable outcome.

  "It was important for the judge to know that Riley was sending her letters... And I asked her about her contact with Riley." (30:50)

• Attorney Safety:
  The harrowing experience of an attorney targeted by a former client’s new partner, resulting in a federal case and highlighting the potential dangers faced by legal professionals.

  "She ended up with a federal case... It was a terrifying situation." (60:16)

These stories underline the unpredictable and often dangerous nature of family law practice.

9. Advice for Aspiring Family Law Attorneys

Patricia offers invaluable guidance for those considering a career in family law:

"If you can make time while you're in law school, try to work for an attorney in the area of family law... Don’t go into it blindly." (95:34)

She stresses the importance of hands-on experience, mentorship, and continuous learning to navigate the emotional and legal complexities inherent in family law.

10. Conclusion

The episode concludes with a heartfelt appreciation for Patricia’s candor and expertise. The hosts acknowledge the relentless challenges faced by family law attorneys and the profound impact their work has on individuals and families.

"You’re doing a great job... You deserve a treat." (103:18)

Patricia reiterates the significance of resilience, ethical practice, and the continuous pursuit of justice in the face of adversity.

Notable Quotes:

• "Family law is a dangerous area of law to practice in." – Patricia McKinnon (60:16)
• "You need to feel that trust with your attorney; it's crucial for your case." – Patricia McKinnon (33:03)
• "Protective orders can be civil or criminal, and their enforcement varies accordingly." – Patricia McKinnon (37:58)
• "Don’t go into it blindly; gain experience first-hand." – Patricia McKinnon (95:34)

Key Takeaways:

• Complexity of Family Law: Family law encompasses a wide range of personal and legal issues, making each case unique and multifaceted.

• Emotional and Physical Risks: Practitioners often deal with highly charged emotional situations that can escalate to threats and violence.

• Importance of Mental Health Support: Attorneys need robust support systems to cope with the emotional toll of their cases.

• Client-Attorney Trust: Transparent and honest communication between clients and attorneys is essential for effective representation and successful outcomes.

• Interdisciplinary Nature: Family law frequently intersects with other legal areas, including criminal law, necessitating a broad understanding of various legal principles.

Resources Mentioned:

• Indiana Super Lawyers Magazine: Patricia McKinnon was featured in the February 13, 2025 edition.
• Judges and Lawyers Assistance Program (JLAC): Provides counseling and support for attorneys.

For more insights and detailed discussions on family law and its challenges, listen to the full episode on Murder Sheet.

This summary encapsulates the key points and discussions from the episode, providing listeners and those unfamiliar with the podcast a comprehensive overview of the insightful conversation with Patricia McKinnon.