Extra! Extra! Bryan Kohberger to Plead Guilty in the University of Idaho Murders

Summary

Murder Sheet Podcast Episode Summary

Title: Extra! Extra! Bryan Kohberger to Plead Guilty in the University of Idaho Murders
Release Date: July 1, 2025
Hosts: Áine Cain (Journalist) & Kevin Greenlee (Attorney)
Description: In this episode of Murder Sheet, hosts Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee delve into the breaking news surrounding Bryan Kohberger's decision to plead guilty in the University of Idaho murders case. They provide in-depth analysis, discuss the implications of the plea deal, and explore the reactions from various stakeholders, including the victims' families.

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1. Breaking News: Bryan Kohberger's Guilty Plea

Timestamp: [04:24] – [04:54]

The episode opens with a significant update in the high-profile University of Idaho murders case. Bryan Kohberger, the defendant accused of murdering four students—Ethan Chapin, Xander Kernodle, Kaylee Gonzalez, and Madison Mogan—is set to plead guilty. This development was initially reported by Brian Enten of News Nation, a trusted source known for his comprehensive coverage of the case.

Áine Cain [04:54]: "Yes. So Extra."

2. Details of the Plea Deal

Timestamp: [04:54] – [10:23]

Áine and Kevin break down the specifics of the plea agreement. In exchange for his guilty plea, Kohberger will receive life imprisonment without the possibility of parole, thereby avoiding the death penalty—a significant aspect that has been a focal point throughout the legal proceedings.

Unknown Speaker [05:39]: "In exchange for his guilty plea, it is agreed that he will not be sentenced to death."

The hosts discuss the strategic importance of this deal for both the prosecution and the defense. For the prosecution, it ensures a definitive guilty verdict without the uncertainties of a trial, while the defense secures their client from the ultimate punishment.

Unknown Speaker [09:45]: "And he's going to waive his right to appeal."

3. Reactions from Victims' Families

Timestamp: [10:24] – [12:28]

A particularly poignant moment in the episode features a statement from Kaylee Gonzalez's family, who have been vocal advocates for Kohberger receiving the death penalty. Their reaction to the plea deal is one of profound disappointment and anger, feeling that the state has "failed us."

Unknown Speaker [11:01]: "It is true. We are beyond furious at the state of Idaho. They have failed us. Please give us some time. Heartbroken kayleejade forever."

Áine and Kevin emphasize the legitimacy of the family's emotions, acknowledging the deep personal loss and trauma they are experiencing.

Áine Cain [12:12]: "They can have mixed opinions."

4. Hosts' Legal Analysis and Opinions

Timestamp: [12:28] – [26:18]

The hosts delve into the broader implications of the plea deal within the American legal system. They highlight the essential role of plea bargains in managing caseloads and ensuring timely justice, even in high-profile cases. Kevin underscores that without plea deals, the legal system would be overwhelmed.

Kevin Greenlee [22:56]: "There are too many crimes. You need to plead some of them out. You cannot take all of them to trial."

Áine shares her perspective on the outcome, viewing it as a win for the state of Idaho, which secures life sentences for the heinous crimes without the prolonged anguish that comes with death penalty cases.

Áine Cain [17:07]: "Which would have come with appeals."

Kevin praises the defense attorney, Ann Taylor, for successfully preventing the possibility of the death penalty, framing it as a strategic victory that ultimately benefits Kohberger by limiting his appeal options.

Kevin Greenlee [17:52]: "It's a pretty sensible outcome."

5. Public and Community Reactions

Timestamp: [26:18] – [31:05]

The discussion shifts to the public's often negative perception of plea deals, particularly in cases involving severe crimes. The hosts explain that while plea deals may seem unfavorable, they are indispensable for the efficient functioning of the justice system.

Unknown Speaker [22:36]: "There are some plea deals that are bad and have terrible or even have terrible outcomes."

They advocate for a case-by-case assessment of plea deals, emphasizing that blanket judgments fail to recognize their complexity and necessity.

6. Future Implications and Closing Thoughts

Timestamp: [31:05] – [36:44]

Áine and Kevin reflect on the potential future developments in the case, including upcoming hearings and the emotional journey of the victims' families towards closure. They express a hope that the plea deal will allow the families to begin healing without the prolonged uncertainty of an appeals process.

Áine Cain [35:05]: "I hope that the legacy can be remembered in a positive and helpful way."

The hosts also touch upon the broader themes of understanding and processing such tragedies, noting that while the plea deal brings a form of resolution, it cannot undo the loss experienced by the families.

7. Conclusion

Timestamp: [36:44] – [40:04]

In wrapping up, Áine and Kevin reaffirm the significance of the plea deal in ensuring that Kohberger remains incarcerated without the lingering threat of execution. They acknowledge the mixed emotions surrounding the decision but stand by their analysis of its necessity and benefits within the legal framework.

Anya Cain [40:04]: "I hope that the legacy can be remembered in a positive and helpful way."

---

Notable Quotes:

• Áine Cain [04:54]: "Yes. So Extra."
• Unknown Speaker [05:39]: "In exchange for his guilty plea, it is agreed that he will not be sentenced to death."
• Unknown Speaker [11:01]: "It is true. We are beyond furious at the state of Idaho. They have failed us. Please give us some time. Heartbroken kayleejade forever."
• Kevin Greenlee [22:56]: "There are too many crimes. You need to plead some of them out. You cannot take all of them to trial."
• Kevin Greenlee [17:52]: "It's a pretty sensible outcome."

Conclusion:

This episode of Murder Sheet provides a comprehensive and nuanced examination of Bryan Kohberger's guilty plea in the University of Idaho murders case. Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee effectively balance legal analysis with empathetic consideration of the victims' families, offering listeners a thorough understanding of the implications surrounding this significant development in true crime.

Transcript

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[Unknown]

Content warning this episode includes discussion of murder.

So naturally we do a University of Idaho murders episode today. And then huge breaking news occurs in this case. What news sources are reporting and what the one of at least one of the victim's families has seemingly confirmed is that University of Idaho murders defendant Bryan Kohberger is set to plead guilty to to the four murders of Ethan Chapin, Xander Kernodle, Kaylee Gonzalez and Madison Mogan.

So huge news and and the reporting indicates that this is part of a deal. And in exchange for his guilty plea, it is agreed that he will not be sentenced to death.

[Anya Cain]

Yes. So Extra.

[Unknown]

Extra is our format on the show where we just kind of COVID some of this big breaking news, and we're going to do an episode talking about what's being said. We're going to talk about plea deals, and we're going to talk about some of the reactions so far.

[Anya Cain]

My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

[Anya Cain]

And this is the Murder Sheet.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're the Murder Sheet.

[Unknown]

And this is Extra.

[Anya Cain]

Extra. Ryan Kohberger to plead guilty in the.

[Unknown]

University of Idaho murders. Sam.

Where do you want to begin?

Well, I think just to give credit where it's due, a couple of wonderful folks who I'm not going to name because I don't know if they want me to name them, sent us this news we saw. It came from the source they sent us. I'm not sure if this person had the scoop, but it was. The first one we saw was Brian Enten of News Nation. He's been all over the University of Idaho murders case from early on, and I feel like he's done a lot of good reporting on it. So that was something that I trusted. I did not feel like Brian Enten was going to get over his skis with such big news. And it was that there had been a plea deal reached. There was one offered to Kohberger by the prosecution team, and that it was accepted.

So the plea deal, as we understand it, is in exchange for a guilty plea. He will not receive the death penalty. And we know that the issue of the death penalty is something that seems to have been very important to the defense team, understandably, because they have repeatedly tried a variety of different arguments to attempt to get it to be taken off the table. This is where they've said, for instance, he shouldn't be subjected to the death penalty because of his autism. I think they've suggested he shouldn't be subjected to the death penalty because of alleged discovery issues. So it obviously was something that was really weighing heavily on them.

Yeah, I mean, it's life and death. Right. So it makes sense that they would be focusing on that because the stakes are so high. So, I mean, this is. I.

[Anya Cain]

This is pretty huge.

[Unknown]

I. I know one. One person I was talking to that we were talking to actually mentioned, you know, the idea that kind of surprising to see in all these high profile cases? Like, you don't. We don't always see a plea deal. Right. Even though that's extremely common. Plea deals are the bedrock on which our system rests. Like, most cases don't go to trial, you know, if we're, if we're looking at cases. But when we're talking about a high profile murder case, usually the reason we're watching it is because it's going to trial. The drama and the spectacle and the combat of a trial is what attracts the media.

And also, if you are a defendant in such a case where you know that if you are found guilty, you will have. Excuse me. You have pretty severe consequences. It's like, why not roll the dice?

[Anya Cain]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Why not take the chance? Maybe you have a one in a million chance of getting an acquittal, but why not? What have you got to lose? And in this instance, obviously, he chose that it was more important to get the certainty that he would not get the death penalty. And it's that certainty that is one of the appeals of the plea bargain on both sides of the table, because the prosecution gets the guarantee that there will be a guilty verdict, in essence, that the defendant will be found guilty, whether by his own admission or through a trial. And also the state gets the assurance they're not gonna have to worry about a lot of appeals.

[Anya Cain]

Yes.

[Unknown]

So it's over.

[Anya Cain]

Yes, he will.

[Unknown]

And to be clear, what News Nation reported was that Coburger is going to. What the deal is, is that he's going to get life in prison without the possibility of parole. So no parole. And he's going to waive his right to appeal.

[Anya Cain]

That. That's huge.

[Unknown]

I just want to emphasize, like, this is not a plea deal where he's going to get out in 20 years. This is a plea deal where he's gone.

Yes. So Kohberger gets the certainty he will not face death, at least by the hands of the state, and the state gets the certainty that there would be no appeals. It's over.

[Anya Cain]

It's done.

[Unknown]

I mean, I. I guess we can talk about what our thoughts are on this, but before we do, I think it's important that we hear from one of the victim's families. This is the only family I've seen publicly weigh in so far, but it's early, so we may see more, you know, soon. But this, this is Kaylee Gonzalez's family. Her family's been very much publicly advocating for CO Burger's death and, and has been outspoken. They were Outspoken, sort of before the gag order came down. And what they have said is the following of this plea deal, quote, it's true. We are beyond furious at the state of Idaho. They have failed us.

[Anya Cain]

Please give us some time.

[Unknown]

This was very unexpected. We appreciate all your love and support. Heartbroken kayleejade forever. End quote. So obviously, the Gonzalez family is not happy about this development. It seems apparent that they are, you know, definitely not.

[Anya Cain]

Not for this deal.

[Unknown]

And before we talk about our own thoughts about the plea deal and our own thoughts about this process, I just want to say, within reason, my motto, my sort of mantra about victims, families in high profile cases who are dead by violent crimes is their feelings are valid, however they feel about anything. I mean, they lost their. This beautiful young woman who had her life ahead of her.

[Anya Cain]

If they're angry, if they're upset, if.

[Unknown]

They'Re happy, if they're what, that's fine. That's valid. You know, I kind of let them have their feelings. So just keep in mind that what. What we have to say about plea deals and whatnot is not in response to them and is not to. To, you know, counter them, because I just feel like they're entitled to however they want to feel about it. All of these families are all four. They can all disagree with it.

[Anya Cain]

They can have mixed opinions.

[Unknown]

Three can agree with it, four cannot. Within the different four families, there can be disagreements and agreements. And we just, I think we have to give people space and, and some grace right now, because this is, I'm sure, can conjure a lot of really.

[Anya Cain]

Mixed feelings, a lot of bad feelings.

[Unknown]

Some people might feel relieved, and all of that's valid. There's no right or wrong way to feel about something like this. So I think let's give that space for their anger. I mean, what do you think?

Yeah, I agree. I give a lot of deference to the feelings of family members in a situation like this.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, it's their child.

[Unknown]

I mean, they lost Kaylee. I mean, they lost. She seems like a wonderful young woman. I mean, this is what they're dealing with. This is what the other four families are dealing with. So I think we just have to keep that in mind when we're talking about this. But I will say in general, I think this is a huge win for the state of Idaho. And, and more so than that, I think in the long term, for however they may feel in this moment, right now, in the long term, this is a huge win for these families because if this plea deal goes through, it's Effectively over for Co Burger. Yes, they will. The thing about appeal, okay, the thing about a death penalty case is a death penalty case because the consequences are so severe and because you can't undo executing somebody. There's a ton of appeals. There's a ton of brouhaha around everything. There's appeals for clemency. There's, you know, like, this would go.

On for years where, like, every appeal that is filed would become news, and it would be something that would be dragged up again and again. And that is very difficult to fam for families in that situation.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

It's like, you cannot. No one can move on from a situation like this because the loss is too great. But you don't even really get a chance to, like, take a beat. It's just constant drumbeat of, oh, my gosh, is this going to get overturned? Is the law going to change? Is. You know, is there. You know, and, okay, the Innocence Project's taking it on, and it's just a nightmare. I mean, it's just an unending nightmare.

And as we were discussing this earlier, just between the two of us, you made what I thought was a great point that even. Let's say there's an alternate universe where this plea deal was not made and Kohberger is found guilty at the trial. There is still no guarantee in that situation that he would have received the death penalty.

No.

The defense has had a mitigation team, as they call it, looking for evidence and arguments to try to sway the judge against imposing the death penalty. They've been working on this for years. It's entirely possible that. That they would have been successful in persuading the judge not to impose the death penalty.

[Anya Cain]

He may have said.

[Unknown]

The judge may have said, okay, this is a heinous crime.

He.

You know, I can understand why you'd want the death penalty, but this guy has so many issues and has had such a troubled life that I think.

[Anya Cain]

My personal opinion is that he should receive.

[Unknown]

And the law supports him receiving life in prison without the possibility of parole for each sentence, you know, to be served concurrently or consecutively or whatnot.

[Anya Cain]

We.

[Unknown]

We could be looking at a situation where we would have gotten to the.

[Anya Cain]

Exact same outcome as this.

[Unknown]

To me, and in that instance, the one we've just described, there would be the possibility of appeals.

There would absolutely be, possibly. So basically, this is. If you. If you look at it from the perspective of, I'm only okay with this if he gets executed, obviously it's a huge loss because he's not going to be executed. If you look at it from any other perspective, this is a significantly worse situation for Cobra going, because he's not, He's. His appeal routes are going to be exceedingly limited. Murder sheet listeners will know. When we covered the Delphi murders, we.

[Anya Cain]

Covered the case of Kagan Klein.

[Unknown]

This was a young man who was convicted and pled guilty without a plea deal in that situation. But he did plead guilty to multiple counts of child sexual abuse, materials and possession and distribution and whatnot. And so that was a situation where he really limited his own ability to appeal any of that by pleading guilty. When you have a guilty plea, it limits your maneuverability.

[Anya Cain]

So what we lost here was the.

[Unknown]

Death penalty, which, again, would have upped the ante for appeals. What we lost here was the judge imposing life without the possibility of parole.

[Anya Cain]

Which would have come with appeals.

[Unknown]

And instead, he's basically throwing away appeals and ending up in a prison cell.

[Anya Cain]

For the rest of his life.

[Unknown]

To me, that's a, I don't know. That seems like a huge win. I think this is a tremendous victory for the state. And I'm also going to say this. I think it's a big victory for Ann Taylor. This is the lead defense attorney. This is a woman who, again, we've been critical of some of her moves. We've been saying, like, okay, some of these, the, some of these arguments seem pretty weak.

[Anya Cain]

But one thing I've always given her credit for and always tried to give.

[Unknown]

Her credit for, is she seems to have fundamentally understood that her mission was to try to get him not executed.

And she succeeded.

[Anya Cain]

And she won. She won.

[Unknown]

I mean, she succeeded. So I, I, I kind of feel like the attorneys on both sides can look at this as a moment of pride, because from the state's perspective, from Bill Thompson and the Lato County Prosecutor's office perspective, they've gotten a very dangerous person who killed four young people just in the most brutal and upsetting and horrible fashion. They got him put away for good, and they don't have to worry about appeals. From Ann Taylor and her team's perspective, they saved this man's life if there was a decent chance he could have gotten the death penalty. You know, I mean, it was just. Now they've taken that off the table. He's not going to be executed by the state. So, I don't know. Feels to me like it. It's a, it's a pretty sensible outcome.

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Emotion out of it. So, I mean, when I look at people online, I see a lot of people very, very angry on behalf of the families. I think plea deals tend to get a very bad rep because we think of plea deals. The reason why you hear about plea deals is because something went wrong. Usually you hear about a plea deal because a plea deal was made and then someone continued to be violent. So I understand why they have a bad reputation. And to be clear, I'm not a.

[Anya Cain]

Fan of every plea deal.

[Unknown]

There are some plea deals that are bad and have terrible or even have terrible outcomes. And there's some plea deals where you're like, okay, why'd you plead that out?

[Anya Cain]

Maybe it would have been better to go to trial.

[Unknown]

But make no mistake, if you made plea deals illegal tomorrow, the system would collapse. Our legal system would collapse on itself.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Why is that?

[Anya Cain]

Because there are two.

[Unknown]

There's too many crimes. You need to plead some of them out. You cannot take all of them to trial. There's not enough resources on either side to do that. They're a necessary, they're unglamorous, nobody likes them.

[Anya Cain]

They sound terrible. They sound soft on crime.

[Unknown]

From the defense attorney's perspective, they sound like you're basically, you know, selling out your client. But again, people who are actually do this job and who are actually in the system realize that they're necessary and skillful. Defense attorneys are good at getting the.

[Anya Cain]

Good plea deals for their client and.

[Unknown]

Advocating for their client's rights even as they're having them plead guilty and trying to, you know, get the charges dropped or get the charges down or mitigate the sentencing. And again, skillful prosecutors are also using them strategically to ensure that fair punishments.

[Anya Cain]

Are being doled out.

[Unknown]

And, you know, and you're not Leaving it to a jury to possibly make a huge mistake.

[Anya Cain]

Right, right.

[Unknown]

So I, I, I don't know. I mean, I, I don't think they.

[Anya Cain]

Should have a bad reputation.

[Unknown]

I think we should look at them on a case by case basis like most things. You know, I don't think we should be saying all plea deals are bad or oh no, it's a plea deal that means it's bad. I don't think we should be saying they're always good. Just look at them, look at what everyone's actually getting from it and then make a decision. And in this case, he's going to.

[Anya Cain]

Prison for the rest of his life.

[Unknown]

I mean, that was one of the possible outcomes that would have happened anyway.

And again, as we've mentioned, he's waiving his rights to appeal. So it ends an you brought up the Delphi case. That's a case where Richard Allen, the man convicted in that case, is almost certainly never going to take another breath as a free man. He's never going to get another trial, but he and his supporters are going to keep on appealing over and over again and because of that is going to cause a lot of anguish and stress to the families in that case.

[Anya Cain]

The families in that case, in their.

[Unknown]

Victim impact statements basically said, please do the right thing, stop putting us through this. You expressed remorse at one point. If you really had remorse, end this nonsense. And he's too much of a coward to do that. So it didn't happen. But you know, I mean, there's a reason that they asked for that. There's a reason that they said that would actually be a gesture that meant something versus like, you know, whining and crying to your wife and then they'd reject you. So you drop it and stop telling the truth.

Because the appeals, even when the chance of success is tiny as it is in the Richard Allen case, it's always there. And so that raises the specter of not only have I lost my loved ones and not only have I gone through a very long and difficult trial and waited for the verdict and the verdict comes in and it's what I thought was appropriate, but there is at least a theoretical chance that all that's going to be undone and I have to do it over again and have another trial. And that, that is quite a heavy load to carry even if, again, even if the chance is small. So don't undersell the waiving of the appeal.

It's a huge, it's a huge win. I see members of the public very angry because again, People don't like plea deals and people feel that, you know, the, the Gonzalez family at least was betrayed and how could the prosecutor do this? But, and I listen, I, I, I, I appreciate those people because they actually care about victims, families. Right? And I think they're coming from a really positive, kind hearted place.

[Anya Cain]

So I commend them.

[Unknown]

I'm not criticizing people. Also, I think plea deals are poorly understood. So I understand like, people are like, that sounds awful. Um, but again, hopefully what we've said here kind of makes people understand that, you know, this is, this is not a bad outcome for the, you know, anyone who cares about justice, in my opinion, unless your sense of justice is just that this guy be executed. But in most cases that doesn't happen. Executions are pretty rare. So it's, it's like, okay, it was a possibility, but it's also a strategic tool for prosecutors to bring up because then you can get a plea deal out of it.

Even if the judge imposed the death penalty, it could be years, if not decades before it be imposed.

It could be, I mean, it could be like, you hear about people who killed people in, you know, decades and decades ago getting executed or like, you know, having clemency or whatnot. Like, like there's a reason for that.

[Anya Cain]

Because it takes forever, it drags on forever.

[Unknown]

It's an arduous, terrible process. And you could say, well, it shouldn't be like that. Okay, but, but it is, I mean, like, like a lot of things would have to happen for it not to be like that. That's why a lot of prosecutors don't bring it up, because it just turns everything into a nightmare. But you know, I, I understand where the public, elements of the public are not happy about this. I, I mean, I, I think it's, I think it's completely, I think, I think it's a pretty much a colossal win for the state and then at least somewhat of a win for Ann Taylor. Um, I, I, I would, I would say for people who are saying that, I understand from the public side, I think there's, I see, I see some creators kind of melting down over it, some people in the true crime sphere. And to that if people are melting down and acting like this is a horrible thing, I think that's very unserious. I'm just gonna say that because I, I, you either don't understand how the system works or you really just wanted blood in this case, which I, I don't know why.

[Anya Cain]

I, it's a horrible, horrible thing that.

[Unknown]

He did, but I Don't really, I don't really. I don't know. I'm not like used to seeing people necessarily be like, death penalty or bust, because that was always going to be.

[Anya Cain]

Up to the judge anyway. So it was never certain.

[Unknown]

Right. It wasn't like that was definitely going to be the outcome.

[Anya Cain]

Trials can also surprise you. Trials can lead to mistrials, trials can lead to acquittals.

[Unknown]

This it set in, this gets it set in stone.

[Anya Cain]

So there's no surprises.

[Unknown]

That's also a big benefit. And, and I, I do feel like part of it. What I'm skeptical with, with people who are covering true crime and sort of.

[Anya Cain]

Making money off of true crime.

[Unknown]

Right. Is that like this is the most boring outcome from that perspective because now no one has the fun shiny trial to play with.

[Anya Cain]

So it's like being taken away.

[Unknown]

So I feel like, I kind of feel like people are mad about that. You know, where it's like, I'm not gonna be able to live stream it all summer. What am I gonna do? And it's like, you know what it's not about, it's not about the circus, it's not about us, it's not about the media. It's about doing the right thing by.

[Anya Cain]

The case, whether you're on the defense or the prosecutors.

[Unknown]

You know, I just got curious and looked it up. Since 1976, only three people have been executed in the state of Idaho. And the last person executed in Idaho was executed in 2012. That was a long time ago and they were. Yeah. So I, I wouldn't assume that even if he was found guilty and sentenced to death, that that is something that would happen anytime soon.

[Anya Cain]

Also, one thing goes wrong in the trial.

[Unknown]

It's overturned and there's only nine people on death row in Idaho.

Yeah, this doesn't surprise me, it doesn't shock me, it doesn't horrify me if I were, you know, but also, I think, personally, I think he did this. I mean, I think the evidence against him was overwhelming just what was presented in the public sphere. So to me, yeah, it's reasonable and it's a good outcome for anyone who cares about justice. Um, I imagine there'll be a lot of melting down from the so called.

[Anya Cain]

Pro burgers who are sort of fans of Bryan Kohberger.

[Unknown]

And I'm not talking, you know, like some of the like more respectable kind of innocence fraudster huckster types try to walk the line of being like, well, we're not saying he's innocent, but like, isn't it weird and like, I'm just asking questions, man. The kind of typical. I'm trying to appeal to both the mainstream and the conspiratorial people. Um, you know, I don't know what they're going to say. I think some of the people who are like, fully in the he's being framed camp are definitely going to have their heads explode tonight because, you know, oh, they must have got to Brian, you know, all that stuff. And I feel bad for the defense team because I'm sure they'll get a lot of flack from that side, like, how could you let this happen? You know, but, you know, I don't know. It's interesting. The defense team a number of times said it's really hard to talk to this guy. He doesn't really listen, like. So I wonder, I wonder what happened. I wonder what happened to prompt this.

[Anya Cain]

Was it fear of the death penalty?

[Unknown]

Was it, meh, like, we're probably gonna lose. Let's just, you know, get that off the table.

Yeah, we don't give our opinions on cases while they're in progress. We did say that the case against him seemed very, very strong. I, I was frankly expecting a conviction.

I was strongly. Out of all the kind of high profile trials that have happened recently, this was the one that I was like, yeah, that's. No, I don't, I don't even see it hanging, you know, other ones that happen. I was like, I don't know, it could kind of. We'll see. But, but with this, it was, I don't know, it just seemed pretty set, you know, strong evidence. And I just. They didn't really seem to have anything on the defense side. Although, you know, like, you, you never know. Could always come up a trial, but without there being a trial. Now, one question people have, I've seen that, that I have too, honestly. And I don't know the answer to this. And it may depend on like Idaho and, or, or the nature of the plea deal, but what's going to happen in terms of possible allocation? I know we saw in the Dennis Raider BTK serial killer case, he kind of. I mean, I actually remember seeing this on like, it kind of like clips of this on the news, like years and years ago when it, when it happened. And like, I think my parents like turned the channel really quickly after, you know, after it came up. But he went on this whole, like, oh, here's what I did. Then I did this, then I did that, like, kind of in a lot of detail and whatnot. You Know disturbing detail, frankly. Will Coburger have to do that? Can he have, can he do that? Is that an option? That would be, I would be curious because I know some people I've heard from and I, I, I totally understand this and I'm kind of in the same boat to a certain degree. Are worried of like are we not.

[Anya Cain]

Going to get all the information of like why this happened?

[Unknown]

Because of the lack of trial. I imagine if the case is over, evidence can come out, right?

Like I, I would imagine that some of this is going to come out. It is the sentencing. There'll still be some kind of a sentencing hearing. I imagine that the, the family members of the victims will get an opportunity to make their victim impact statements. I, I, I, I would hope that enough information would come out that would satisfy people that this is definitely an accurate plea deal. This is definitely the man who did this. I don't feel we necessarily need all of the play by play, all the.

[Anya Cain]

Awful, we're never gonna get that.

[Unknown]

And also the thing about cases like this is it always comes down to some loser male is sexually frustrated or angry at women and other males who are with women and, and wants to kill as the result of that. It's not really that interesting. We make way too much about the kind of like oh, Ted Bundy, what's he thinking?

[Anya Cain]

Nothing good.

[Unknown]

Like I don't know what to tell you.

[Anya Cain]

He hates women.

[Unknown]

You know, he sees women as sex objects. And, and it's either he, they want to do horrible things to women because of that or they're mad because the.

[Anya Cain]

Women aren't with them, because they're losers.

[Unknown]

So I mean it's one of the, I mean it's just, We've heard this song before. Guys.

[Anya Cain]

I'm sorry if I sound incurious, maybe.

[Unknown]

I'm burned out by true crime, but I, at some point it's just kind of, there's like two, like there's like two possibilities here. There's no grand plan, there's no Hannibal Lecter doesn't exist. There's no like distinguished, interesting serial killer, serial killer wannabe or mass killer that's like, whoa, wow. They have a really interesting point. It's just all the same friggin thing again and again and, and that's it, you know? Like I, I don't know. I mean I might be like what do you think?

Yeah, I, I don't think there's, yeah, I, I agree with you.

This is, I mean, and what would explain this? What would explain this?

[Anya Cain]

Nothing would explain this, nothing ever explains this.

[Unknown]

There's no explanation. There's just evil people and disturbed people and broken people who do horrible things and that's it. And, you know, and, and in instances where there might be some kind of like, explanation, I'm all forgetting that. But, but, but you see enough of this stuff and you're just kind of like, you know, whatever it is, it's not really going to be satisfying.

Yeah. I was thinking as you were talking a moment ago about when I was in law school, I spent a summer working in a judge's office and I remember where a man committed some animal abuse cases involving some horses. And I said to the judge, you know, why did he do it? And the judge said, does it matter? Is there any reason good enough to explain this?

[Anya Cain]

No.

[Unknown]

And again, like, I, you know, I'm all for people studying serial killers and trying to get to the bottom of it, but like, but we're never really completely going to.

And there's no reason good enough to explain it.

And, and again, you know, like, at some point, you know, hearing it from him, he's kind of an unreliable narrator, you know, like, who knows what he. What, who knows what garbage, you know, he's gonna give? Who knows if he's gonna actually be honest in those instances? So I guess I just, I don't. My, my curious side is like, oh yeah, I want to know. But my more jaded side is like, who cares? Also, we're never going to get a play by play on everything. It's just not never how it works. I mean, that BTK thing was kind of, I think, a rarity in how that happened. I will be curious though, would love to hear the victims families and their impact statements and what this meant to them. And I, I hope that, you know, barring some kind of Kagan Klein esque twist where he kind of said he was going to plead guilty, then said, no, just kidding, I'm not going to plead guilty. Then he fired his lawyer and then pled guilty. So barring some kind of shenanigans, which you know, you can never completely discount until it's over, Barring some kind of shenanigans, you know, it will be over. And I hope that the focus would then be on these students, these young people who were murdered, because they're ultimately the most important people in this, you know, and I hope their legacy can be remembered in a positive and, and helpful way. And I hope that their families can celebrate them for, for the wonderful young people they were and, and kind of promote their memory in a, in a nice and positive, lasting way, as opposed to have to deal with the endless slog of appeals and dealing with, you know, Bryan Kohberger's Internet girlfriends who are protesting, you know, the latest appeal, like, just, you know, the true crime nonsense that just seems to happen more and more. And also, if you, if, if anyone listening to this is, has followed somebody who's been acting like, you know, there's a huge conspiracy against Brian Kohberger, you know, keep that in mind next time they say anything, because that's dumb. And I think, I really wish there were more, I wish there was more accountability in true crime where it's like, you know, if you, if you were, like, very loudly wrong and stupid about one case, people would actually remember that and being like, okay, I think I'm.

[Anya Cain]

Going to disregard this and set this aside.

[Unknown]

You know, I'm not, I'm not saying, like, oh, if people are like, well, I don't know, maybe it's going to be a hung jury. I'm not, I'm not talking about that. I'm not talking about people who are talking about, like, outcome or even their opinion. I'm just saying, like, if people have been going on about how, like, Brian Coburg is going to be sprung because it's going to turn out that the DNA was planted, like, people are that far in the weeds. I think that's, I don't know. That's not, that's not good. People shouldn't be doing that. Anything else to say about this?

I think that's it.

I think that's it. I'll be curious to see how the other families react. And, you know, again, I, I, I guess it's, it's just a, it's a sad and tragic case and nothing brings those kids back. And to reiterate, the Gonsalves family, their feelings are valid, you know, and, and, you know, ultimately they're going to be going through this in a different way than anyone who's just a observer because they lost somebody. So things like anger, grief, disappointment, that's understandable. But for the content creators who are just plainly angry that they're gonna, like.

[Anya Cain]

Lose their golden goose in August. Come on, let's not do that.

[Unknown]

That's ridiculous. All right, well, thanks, everyone for listening to this.

[Anya Cain]

Extra, extra.

[Unknown]

And, you know, we'll. Sounds like the next thing is gonna, there's gonna be a hearing on this on Wednesday, so get more information that, More info then. All right, thanks, everyone.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Thanks so much for listening to the murder sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email [e-mail] if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[Anya Cain]

If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com murdersheet. If you want to tip us a.

[Unknown]

Bit of money for records requests, you.

[Anya Cain]

Can do so at www. Buymeacoffee.com murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the murder sheet and who you can find on the [e-mail] if you're looking to talk with.

[Anya Cain]

Other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much.

[Unknown]

We do try to check our email.

[Anya Cain]

Account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You know, Anya, we are in this true crime space. It's such a difficult place to be in sometimes. And one of the reasons is because.

[Unknown]

You'Re talking about cases that people have.

[Kevin Greenlee]

A real emotional involvement in. And so if you reach a conclusion that some people don't like online, they're going to, like, start attacking you and even threatening you.

[Anya Cain]

Yes.

[Unknown]

And I know when that first started happening to us, it was really, really unsettling and difficult.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I know one thing that really.

[Unknown]

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[Kevin Greenlee]

Continue on with the show was SimpliSafe.

[Anya Cain]

SimpliSafe has been a company we've trusted for years. We've used them for years to protect our home. And one of the reasons is they just give us that peace of mind. As Kevin said, we're no strangers to controversy. And sometimes that can mean getting threats or getting basically hit veiled threats where.

[Unknown]

People say they're gonna come hurt you because they disagree with what you're saying about a case.

[Anya Cain]

And so with Simplisafe, we're able to.

[Unknown]

Kind of keep the murder sheet train chugging along and not worry about that.

[Anya Cain]

Too much because we know that they are so proactive about how they keep homes secure. This is a company, I mean, their new active guard, outdoor protection, that's there to stop break ins before they happen.

[Unknown]

They're not just letting you know about.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, this bad thing happened. They're trying to prevent it from even happening so you don't have to go through that trauma. They have live monitoring agents on hand 24, 7. To possibly detect suspicious activity around the property. They have cameras.

[Unknown]

And also, one thing I like about.

[Anya Cain]

Them is they're flexible. They know that different people have different needs. They know that if you're a renter, you can't necessarily set up the same amount of equipment, and it can't be on the walls permanently as you could do if you're a homeowner. So they're great for renters. They're great for homeowners.

[Unknown]

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[Anya Cain]

Visit simplisafe.com msheet to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's simplisafe.com msheet there's no safe like SimpliSafe. I think you and I, Kevin, are people who always like to support a company that's giving back to the community in some key way and supporting a cause that we care about. Is that fair to say?

[Unknown]

That's very fair to say.

[Anya Cain]

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[Unknown]

Right, Right.

[Anya Cain]

Well, one company that's based in Austin, Texas, is Hometown Hero, and they're doing just that. They're founded by a US Veteran, and he understood first and foremost how trauma can affect veterans. So a portion of their profits actually goes into causes that support veterans and groups that are supporting veterans. So when you're buying one of their premium hemp products, you're actually giving back to veterans. We think that's awesome. A lot of their products have this live rosin in it. This is a cannabis concentrate that's extracted using heat and pressure. That means you're getting very pure, very good cannabis in your hemp product that you're getting from them. They ship all throughout the country. It's very discreet packaging. It goes right to your door. And you can really experiment with them because they have something for people with all sorts of levels of THC experience.

[Unknown]

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[Anya Cain]

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[Kevin Greenlee]

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[Anya Cain]

Yeah, for me, it's. I mean, I get kind of nuts about my cravings. Sometimes. I will, you know, suddenly really want Macintosh apples, which aren't even in season, and various other things. We all know I've been stealing a lot of cereal recently, or allegedly, I should say. And so to kind of help beat that, I've been using their Hormone Harmony supplement. It's just a supplement. You take it a couple of times.

[Unknown]

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[Anya Cain]

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[Unknown]

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[Anya Cain]

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