B (3:21)

Do you want to walk down the alley?

A (3:23)

Are we allowed to?

B (3:24)

I don't know. Why not?

A (3:28)

So we proceeded to go down this alley and to give you a sense, and I took some pictures of it. This is an alley between two buildings in the city. It's pretty wide. Someone's got, like, a little sidewalk on one side. And as we proceeded down, there were a couple of other people there. There were several loading docks, I think at least one dumpster side alley. And eventually we came upon this loading dock from the Westin, which is a local hotel. And this is sort of what we were looking for because we were aware that a crime occurred there on October 4, 2025. And this crime was an alleged altercation between Fox Sports analyst Mark Sanchez, a former NFL player, and a elderly truck driver. And actually, as we were walking by, this was kind of bizarre. Kevin actually slipped on some what looked like grease that had been spilled by that loading dock. Do you remember that?

B (4:32)

I do.

A (4:34)

And we kept moving. But we went there because we like to get a sense of, you know, how things look and how things are related. And sometimes that visual is helpful as you're covering an incident. But now we're going to talk about the legal ramifications of this whole situation involving Sanchez and this alleged victim. And it's pretty interesting because it's a kind of bit of touched a bit of a sore spot around crime in Indianapolis, I think will be interesting to talk about. My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.

B (5:08)

And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

A (5:11)

And this is the Murder Sheet.

B (5:12)

We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're the Murder Sheet.

A (5:21)

And this is Extra. Extra. Mark Sanchez stands accused of attacking a truck driver. SA.

B (6:12)

I think one thing we talk a lot about on the show, Anya, is the need to try to as best you can to avoid jumping to conclusions before you have all the facts and all of the evidence, because that can be something that is harmful and can get you at the wrong result. And we saw that in pretty close to real time here. And I think it was interesting because it shows the filters some people have when they process news events. The first media coverage about this incident merely said that Mark Sanchez, who is a wealthy professional male, was stabbed on the streets of downtown Indianapolis. And there wasn't much more information given than that. And I think a lot of people processed that information and interpreted it in one very specific way, namely they imagine that he was the victim of some sort of street crime in the city.

A (7:17)

That's correct. And, yeah, Mark Sanchez, we, we. We saw the headlines. We didn't immediately know who that is because we don't really follow football. He's 38 years old. He's a. The former quarterback of the New York jets.

B (7:28)

And, yeah, he's now an announcer for Fox Sports.

A (7:31)

Right. And. And so, as you said, I think. I just want to say this. I think we all process the news that way. We all have our own internal biases and our own internal belief systems. And when we see news, it's very easy to filter it, Drew. So it confirms whatever our preconceived notions are. That's super common. I think that's just a human trait, but that's why it's so important to exercise caution. And this is why I think exercising caution is actually probably the most prudent thing we all can do as ethical consumers of crime and true crime news.

B (8:10)

And not just people like you and I, dear listener. I think it's also incredibly important for leaders in our society to also practice this.

A (8:22)

It's way more important for leaders because when.

B (8:24)

When they jump to conclusions, it has the potential to cause more damage.

A (8:29)

And it's. It's very. It's very naked and it's very obvious, and it's, it's. And again, I, I really don't think. This is not an issue that I think is a partisan one. I think this is one where we all do this and we all have the tendency. I mean, I, I see cases where people are coming out of the woodwork two seconds in and being like, well, I bet it's this type of guy or that type of guy or whatever. I bet this is someone who dis with me politically. And it's like, you don't know anything. Shut up. Like, you know, like, yeah, yeah, this does nothing.

B (8:58)

I want to. I want to be fair. I want to be fair. In this particular case, the people, the politicians who were jumping to conclusions, which I believe you're going to discuss here in a moment, they happen to be very conservative Republicans. I think we can easily imagine and recall other incidents in the past where the politicians jumping to conclusions were liberal.

A (9:21)

Democrats, or you could just. Even the civilian populace. That. That definitely happens on both sides, but it's. It's. It's not a. Either way. I mean, we all deserve better, especially from leaders. So Governor Mike Braun's tweet about this, which he since deleted. I have been clear. City leaders must do their jobs and hold criminals accountable. When Indianapolis headlines national news for lack of public safety, it hurts our city and our state. Hoosiers deserve better. Praying for a full recovery for Mark Sanchez. And then Lieutenant Governor Micah Beckwith said that. Unacceptable. This is happening in our capital city right here in Indiana. Indianapolis is sliding into lawlessness because local leaders refuse to prosecute criminals and protect citizens. Our law enforcement officers want to do their jobs, but they're being handcuffed by socket on crime politicians who value ideology over safety. It's time for the state of Indiana to step in. We must restore law and order in our capital. The General assembly should act this session to give the governor an Attorney General clear authority to enforce the law and prosecute offenders when local officials won't. Indiana deserves safe streets and leadership with the courage to deliver it. End quote. Okay, so, I mean, so they're assuming.

B (10:32)

That this very successful professional male who was stabbed must be the victim of a street crime. It doesn't seem to have occurred to them that maybe that's not how things happened. And also, I hasten to add, the actual facts of this incident came out pretty quickly.

A (10:54)

Oh, very quickly, yeah.

B (10:56)

These men were making these tweets and these statements within hours of the initial reports of the incident coming out. And if they even just waited a day. I don't necessarily understand the impulse to rush out and try to make statements like this when facts are still coming.

A (11:14)

Out because they wanted to score political points.

B (11:17)

Right?

A (11:17)

Basically. And again, I'm not saying this to criticize one side or the other. It's one side doing it in this situation you can envision another side doing in another situation. Either way, it's not good. Everyone deserves better than this. And I've noticed this. I've seen people on the left use crimes as props to make their points. I've seen people on the right do it. When people are doing that, you are belittling the actual crime itself and flattening nuance and flattening any sort of discussion. And I actually don't have a problem. If this had turned out to be street crime and they wanted to make a big point about it, that's their right. I mean, if. If it fits fine. But it's not a good situation when they're just wrong. And so. Yeah, and then they turned out to just be wrong in this situation. So what we saw come out then was that contrary to what people thought about Mark Sanchez being the victim, he actually was.

B (12:13)

Yeah, I want to.

A (12:13)

Allegedly not.

B (12:15)

Yeah. And when that fact came out, the prosecutor of Marion County, Ryan Mears, said the governor attempted to exploit senseless violence for political gain without knowing any facts. The truth didn't fit his narrative and he deleted his tweet. So let's get to the truth. I want to read some edited highlights from the pca. The pca, of course, is a probable cause affidavit. This is a document that police and prosecutors prepare to show the court in order to explain why an arrest is made, why charges are filed. I'm not going to read the whole thing again. These are some edited highlights. As Anya mentioned, this incident took place in downtown Indianapolis near various hotels. The West End, the Marriott, there's several hotels there. And as you can imagine, when you have a location where there's plenty of businesses around, you're going to have video.

A (13:22)

Oh, yeah.

B (13:23)

So I'm now reading some edited highlights from this quote. Detective Joshua Staten reviewed the video from the Indianapolis Marriott downtown and saw a male, believed to be Mark Sanchez, jogging northbound in the alley. Mr. Sanchez runs towards a large box truck that is backed into the loading docks at the Westin Hotel. Mr. Sanchez approaches the delivery truck and goes behind it before reappearing and approaching the driver's door. It should be noted at this time that Perry Toll, the victim in this case, is an employee with a company that specializes in commercial cooking oil recycling and disposal. Mr. Toll was backed into the loading dock area at the Westin performing his assigned duties when he was encountered by Mr. Sanchez. Mr. Sanchez approached the driver's door of the truck and opened the door and began a conversation with Mr. Tull. The two appear to have an interaction at the driver's side door. And then Mr. Tull walks back towards the front of the truck. Mr. Sanchez is following again, and Mr. Tull is seen walking backwards away from Mr. Chanchas. Mr. Toll and Mr. Sanchez are now seen moving around in the front area in front of the truck. And then Mr. Toll darts towards the driver's door again. Mr. Sanchez is seen running after Mr. Toll and the video shows Mr. Sanchez grabbing and throwing Mr. Toll towards the wall of the Westin. It appears that the two men are now fighting between the large metal green dumpster and the truck. The fight continues up against the dumpster and then as a vehicle is driving southbound in the alley. The two men continue fighting and are now moving out towards the middle of the alley. Mr. Sanchez is then seen throwing Mr. Toll to the ground on the west side of the alley. Just as the car passes. Mr. Tull stands up from the ground and Mr. Sanchez is standing there for a brief moment before turning and running northbound. Detective Staton took a statement from Mr. Tull on October 4, 2025. Mr. Tull's statement closely matches the video Detective Staton watched from the Marriott. Mr. Sanchez told Mr. Tull that he could not be there at the loading dock and that he Mr. Sanchez had spoken to the manager of the hotel. Mr. Tull did not have his hearing aids in because his truck is very loud when he exchanging the frying oil for the hotel, so he had to lean in close to Mr. Sanchez to hear him. When Mr. Toll leaned in, he stated that Mr. Sanchez smelled of alcohol and his speech was slurred. Mr. Tull was confused and stated he needed to contact his manager to find out what exactly was going on. Mr. Toll described Mr. Sanchez, whom he did not recognize, was well dressed and groomed, so Mr. Toll assumed he could be the manager of the hotel.

A (16:28)

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B (16:42)

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B (18:01)

Mr. Sanchez then climbed up into the cab of the truck and leaned over the driver's seat and looked in towards the middle area between the seats. Mr. Toll told Mr. Sanchez he was not allowed to be inside of the truck. Mr. Sanchez kept repeating that he had spoken to the manager and they did not want Mr. Tolle to do that. Mr. Sanchez tried again to get into the truck and Mr. Tolle stated again that he could not let him in the truck. Mr. Tolle said that he knew at this time he had a problem. Mr. Toll tried to get his cell phone from the truck and Mr. Sanchez blocked him from trying to call his manager. Mr. Toll then walked around the front of the truck and Mr. Sanchez followed him but stood near the front of the truck. Mr. Toll walked around to the driver's side and again attempted to get his cell phone, but Mr. Sanchez shoved Mr. Toll back. Mr. Toll realized things had escalated and he was now in physical danger. So he reached into his pocket and grabbed his pepper spray and sprayed Mr. Sanchez in the face. Mr. Tole said that the pepper spray appeared to have an effect on Mr. Sanchez for a moment, but Mr. Sanchez wiped his face and again advanced towards Mr. Tull. Mr. Tull thought, this guy is trying to kill me. So he pulled his knife and when Mr. Sanchez came at him, Mr. Tull went at Mr. Sanchez and struck him two or three times with the knife. Mr. Tull said he found himself flying back into the dumpster and falling onto the pallets on the ground. While he was on the ground, Mr. Tull was not aware of what Mr. Sanchez was physically doing to him, whether he was punching him or otherwise striking him. While Mr. Toll was on the ground, he could only see the feet of Mr. Sanchez coming at him, making Mr. Toll realize he was in a life or death situation. Somehow Mr. Tull made it to his feet and when Mr. Sanchez came at, Mr. Tull grabbed Mr. Sanchez the last time. The next thing Mr. Tull knew was Mr. Sanchez looked at him with a look of shock. He slowly turned around and Mr. Sanchez took off northbound in the alley. End quote. And I suppose I should mention at this point that the victim, Mr. Tull.

A (20:15)

69 year old man and up against a 38 year old former professional football player. I mean, it's a pretty scary situation. Obviously everything's alleged right now because there hasn't been a trial. So that's important to keep in mind.

B (20:34)

But that seems to be a pretty compelling narrative and the fact that it is on tape. Yeah, I think it seems pretty clear that Mr. Sanchez was the aggressor in this bizarre incident.

A (20:46)

There have been very gruesome photographs that have come out of Mr. Toll's injuries that are disturbing and you know, again, very graphic people. I, when I see common people commenting on them, it's almost like, was he trying to kill this guy? Like, I mean, like he, he looks very badly injured. And again, as you mentioned, he's a 69 year old man. He's an older gentleman. This, this isn't. This whole incident doesn't really make any sense. Like why, why, why was Sanchez so adamant that he have this alleyway to himself at night, the day before, into the evening before a football game he's supposed to cover?

B (21:27)

It was more like this was like Friday, Saturday night.

A (21:30)

Friday, Saturday, yeah.

B (21:31)

And then the game is actually Sunday afternoon.

A (21:34)

But still, like, why does he want this place to himself? What? You know, this guy's just doing his job. He's doing what he's always doing. It's Sanchez who's coming and inserting himself into the situation and freaking out about it. It's just very odd. Obviously, alcohol may be involved, so that kind of throws everything into question.

B (21:52)

So the prosecutors filed charges against Mr. Sanchez. Initially it was three misdemeanors. One was battery resulting in bodily injury, unauthorized entry of a motor vehicle, and public intoxication. They then added a fourth count of battery resulting in serious bodily injury as a felony. The prosecutor said he did that because after looking at the extent of Mr. Toll's injuries, which have been apparent in some publicly published photographs, and also considering the fact that, as we said, Mr. Toll is a 69 year old man, that made him want to upgrade the charge to the felony level.

A (22:32)

Yeah, I mean, that makes sense. Having seen the pictures myself is pretty disturbing. Yeah.

B (22:38)

So Mr. Sanchez is looking at the possibility of some prison time here. And the one thing I want to mention before we turn it over into possible civil implications is that Mr. Sanchez hired the services of an Indianapolis lawyer named Jim Voyles, who, if you're not from Indianapolis, he's probably the guy to go to. Right.

A (23:00)

He's like the celebrity high profile case lawyer of Indianapolis. I feel like.

B (23:05)

Yeah, he's our super lawyer, our number one defense attorney.

A (23:10)

So I, so I will also note, I mentioned some of the pictures of Mr. Toll. There are also video footage that's been released that I'VE reviewed from just of Sanchez walking around in the sort of staggering around in the aftermath. He's been stabbed. You can tell by the way he's walking these injured. And then there appears to be a stain on his shirt. He's wearing like a polo and pants. And he just, he doesn't, he looks like there's been a serious incident. And he's kind of holding one of his arms to his chest, abdomen kind of area. So, yeah, I mean, and he's kind of turning a corner and that's what you're seeing. But this is not only necessarily going to just remain a criminal case, as Kevin talked about, because Perry Toll has filed a lawsuit in Marion Superior Court civil tort against Mark Sanchez and Fox Corporation. So we have now that I'll, I'll read some, some a bit of that. But so it says, these are the factual allegations outlined in this lawsuit. Quote, defendant Sanchez is an employee of the defendant Fox Corporation. Defendant Sanchez traveled to the state of Indiana as part of his employment duties for the defendant Fox Corporation and the television broadcast of the NFL football game involving the Indianapolis Colts and the Las Vegas Raiders on Sunday, October 5, 2025.

B (24:42)

Let me jump in here.

A (24:43)

Yeah.

B (24:43)

When you're filing a civil suit, one of the things you want to try to do is you try to find the people or the institutions with big pockets. And so what they're saying here is certainly they're filing suit against Mr. Sanchez because he was actually the individual who caused these injuries and committed these acts as captured on video. But they want to add Fox and go after damages from Fox. And the theory is Fox either knew or should have known that this was an unstable person and that therefore, if they hired him and were bringing him to different cities and stuff, they should have had him under a certain level of supervision, keeping an eye on him to ensure the safety of others. And the fact that they didn't do that, the theory would go, means that they too should be held liable to a certain extent.

A (25:39)

Yes. And those are described in some of the counts. So he has a number of claims in this, again, for the civil suit. So here's count one for the claims, and this is assault and battery. Quote, plaintiff Perry Toll incorporates by reference the allegations contained in paragraphs 1 through 14 as if fully set forth herein. Defendant Sanchez intentionally and unlawfully made harmful and offensive contact with plaintiff Perry Toll causing serious bodily injury. Defendant Sanchez's actions constitute malicious, willful, wanton or grossly negligent conduct as a direct and proximity result of defendant Sanchez's actions. Plaintiff Perry Toll suffered severe permanent disfigurement, loss of function, other physical injuries, emotional distress and other damages, end quote. So that's. That's the one that's more focused on Sanchez. But now we get into something interesting. As far as Fox comes into things. This is count to negligent hiring, retention and supervision. Quote. Plaintiff Perry Toll incorporates by reference the allegations contained in paragraphs 1 through 18, as if fully set forth herein. Defendant Fox Corporation owed a duty of care to plaintiff Perry Toll to ensure that its employees conducted themselves in a reasonable manner. Defendant Fox corporation knew or should have known about defendant Sanchez's unfitness as an employee, propensity for drinking and. And or harmful conduct. Despite this knowledge or the availability of this knowledge, defendant Fox Corporation hired defendant Sanchez as an employee, retained defendant Sanchez as an employee, and or failed to supervise defendant Sanchez in his capacity as an employee of defendant Fox Corporation. Defendant Fox Corporation breached its duty of care to plaintiff Perry Toll as set forth above. End quote. So what they're asking for is a compensatory. I can't talk compensatory damages in an amount to be determined at trial. B, punitive damages in an amount to be determined at trial. C, costs and expenses of this action, including reasonable attorney's fees. D, any other relief that the court deems just improper. And the attorney for the plaintiff is Eric J. May and Edward R. Reichert from Glitgo and Daleyza. And they're asking for a jury trial. And the. It's pretty early in the case already. Fox59 has asked to have cameras in the courtroom for this, but as judge Jennifer Prinze Harrison wrote in her response to them, they're asking the wrong judge. I think they just filed it here. And they want. Basically said you requested access to the cause out of Marion Superior Court. D12. And you. You want something else. I'm not the right.

B (28:26)

Yeah, I'm not even. I'm sure this will go to trial. I think there's an excellent chance it will end up getting settled out of court. Because if you're Mr. Sanchez, why would you want this to go to trial? Because clearly this video, if it is as described, it would be pretty damning.

A (28:44)

You would want, I think, to make a plea deal and give talk about.

B (28:48)

The civil suit now.

A (28:48)

Yeah, but I think. But the other one, you want to make a plea deal and with this you'd want to make some kind of settlement. So, I mean, this is a situation where it's all very unfortunate, but it's also unfortunate that there was this rush to judgment and a sitting governor kind of almost attacked citizens of his own capital city for, for doing something when it was a guy from California who was known for playing for a New York football team, who was here to cover an NFL game and not, not a homegrown Indianapolis crime. And I think we can all have our opinions about how crime is being handled in Indianapolis, and maybe there's some good conversations for that. But I think there's something very disingenuous for anyone basically lying in wait and ready to pop out of the bushes the second something happens. Making assumptions, it just sort of weakens the point and it weakens the argument. And if politicians on a statewide level are truly concerned about crime in Indianapolis, there's proactive things that can be done and conversations that can be had, and that's all very welcome. But doing something where you're just like, doing something where you're just basically like, oh my gosh, I, these, these Indianapolis people are crazy. And they, they must have mugged this guy and then he turns out to be the, the aggressor on this elderly gentleman. It's just no one from Indianapolis seemingly did anything wrong here. This was, this was a visitor to our city. And I really wish, Mr. Toll, you know, recovery here, I mean, those, those injuries were horrific. And hopefully there can be some measure of justice and compensation for his troubles because, I mean, it's just, it's deeply depressing. This, like, working class guy is just brutalized by some rich, aggressive person, at least as it's alleged at this point, that, that's not right, you know, that, that, that should not be allowed to stand.

B (30:37)

Yeah, I agree completely.

A (30:38)

So we'll be kind of following the case going forward and seeing what's going on.

B (30:43)

It should be very interesting. It's very strange to see a big major case come out of Indianapolis. And I say major primarily because of the attention it is getting, just because the participant happens to be a well known figure in some circles. And I think one thing that makes a crime stand out to some people, when it's something that is not something you expect. And certainly in this instance, I think a lot of people probably had the first reaction the governor had.

A (31:15)

And that's okay. I mean, there's nothing wrong. And I do want to say that there's nothing wrong with hearing a headline and saying, oh, he must have gotten mugged. Nothing wrong with that. The problem is when you tweet it.

B (31:25)

Out, especially if you're a governor and you're tweeting it out. When you're in a position of authority like that, people pay a lot of attention to your words.

A (31:35)

There's no gold medal for being first. There's no gold medal for having the first, best hot take on a crime. You don't have to. And this goes for all of us because I agree it's worse with the sitting governor. It's worse with a leader, someone who's supposed to be leading us. But it's also a lesson for all of us. We all are capable of coming to the wrong conclusion. Kevin and I are everyone listening at home is. And, and we have our different biases and our different opinions and those are okay, those, that's our beliefs. But all we have to do is just wait and analyze it based on the real evidence and then we can have a better, more impactful conversation. And we're not like blaming a working class grease truck driver guy who's 69 and got attacked for no reason versus the guy who's alleged to have actually perpetrated this horrible crime. So I think that's the lesson, is just take a breath and then wait and then we can comment and then we can have some interesting conversations.

B (32:26)

Yeah.

A (32:27)

Yeah.

B (32:27)

I believe the next hearing in this case is currently scheduled for early November and we will certainly be keeping an eye on it and sharing it with you.

A (32:37)

Absolutely. Thanks everyone for listening.

B (32:40)

Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us@murdersheetmail.com if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

A (33:00)

If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com murdersheet if you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so@buymeacoffee.com murdersheet we very much appreciate any support.

B (33:24)

Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the web@kevintg.com if you're looking to talk with.

A (33:35)

Other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening. Wherever you go, whatever they get into, from chill time to everyday adventures, Protect your dog from parasites with credelio guattro for full safety information, side effects and warnings, visit cordelioquattrolabel. Com, consult your vet or call 1-888-545-5973. Ask your vet for Cordelia Quattro and visit quattrodog.

B (34:23)

Com.