Podcast Summary: Murder Sheet - "Stigma and Psychosis: A Conversation About Mental Illness"

Overview In the June 26, 2025 episode of Murder Sheet, hosts Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee delve into the intricate and often misunderstood realm of mental illness, focusing specifically on stigma and psychosis. This episode features a heartfelt and enlightening conversation with Michelle and her daughter, who courageously share their personal experiences with schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder. Through their narrative, the podcast aims to dismantle misconceptions, highlight the importance of support systems, and advocate for compassionate discourse within the true crime community.

1. Setting the Stage: Understanding Stigma and Psychosis [04:05 – 04:56] The episode begins with Áine and Kevin addressing the pervasive stigma surrounding mental illness in the context of true crime. They acknowledge that terms like "insanity" often misconstrue complex mental health issues, leading to further alienation of those affected.

Michelle's Daughter:
"Sometimes mental illnesses and psychopathy get used interchangeably. All of this ends up further alienating those with mental illnesses." [04:36]

2. Introducing the Guest: Michelle and Her Daughter [05:20 – 06:41] Áine and Kevin warmly introduce Michelle and her daughter, who has lived with schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder for her entire life. Their presence underscores the podcast's commitment to authentic and informed discussions.

3. Personal Journey: Living with Schizophrenia and Schizoaffective Disorder [06:45 – 15:25] Michelle's daughter opens up about her lifelong battle with mental illness, detailing her early struggles, periods of homelessness, substance abuse, and eventual acceptance of her diagnosis in her 40s.

Michelle's Daughter:
"I thought once I got clean and sober, the symptoms stayed. And that's kind of when I started to realize, hey, maybe it's very confusing." [10:35]

She emphasizes the unpredictable nature of her condition, likening it to a "dimmer switch" that fluctuates based on stress levels. Her daily life involves managing paranoia, delusions, and disorganized thinking, all while maintaining a supportive family environment.

4. The Misconceptions: Mental Illness vs. Violence [15:25 – 16:23] A critical segment where the misconception that mental illness equates to violence is addressed.

Michelle's Daughter:
"I have never been violent a day in my life, and I don't know anybody that has. I think we're more susceptible to being manipulated and taken advantage of." [15:36]

Michelle:
"There are a lot of non-mentally ill people who are very violent. It's not that if people are violent, they may just be violent." [19:07]

This discussion highlights that individuals with mental illnesses are more often victims rather than perpetrators of violence, challenging prevalent stereotypes.

5. Navigating Psychosis: Signs and Experiences [20:08 – 31:09] Michelle's daughter delves deeper into the nuances of psychosis, differentiating it from common portrayals. She describes vivid delusions and hallucinations, emphasizing the internal chaos that accompanies these episodes despite appearing calm externally.

Michelle's Daughter:
"When I'm in psychosis, that's a wholly different looking experience. And that is going to probably look strange to people." [28:32]

She shares personal anecdotes, such as believing in alien invasions and feeling persecuted by neighbors, illustrating the profound disconnect between internal experiences and external appearances.

6. The Role of Support Systems [31:06 – 37:00] The conversation underscores the pivotal role of family and support systems in managing mental illness. Michelle's daughter credits her loving husband and supportive family for helping her navigate daily challenges and psychotic episodes.

Michelle's Daughter:
"I have a very loving husband. I have three beautiful daughters. I have a good mom, sister, and friends. That’s taken years to be able to maintain that though. It's so important." [15:25]

7. Mental Illness in the True Crime Narrative [37:00 – 45:12] A significant portion of the episode critiques how true crime media often misrepresents mental illness, conflating it with psychopathy and thereby perpetuating harmful stereotypes.

Michelle's Daughter:
"Half the time, maybe even 90% of the time, I'm like, that's called psychopath. That's called a psychopath. That's not called a schizophrenic or psychosis." [34:45]

She argues that true crime stories frequently highlight psychopaths rather than individuals genuinely struggling with mental health issues, thereby skewing public perception.

8. Legal Implications and the Insanity Defense [45:12 – 58:37] The discussion transitions to the legal system's handling of mental illness, particularly the use of the insanity defense. Michelle's daughter critiques the narrow legal definitions that often fail to accurately represent mental health conditions, limiting the effectiveness of this defense.

Michelle's Daughter:
"Andrea Yates, who we all can say 100% needed that defense. And, and we've... I have empathy for her. What. How. How sad is that?" [56:59]

They explore historical and contemporary applications of the insanity defense, highlighting its inconsistencies and the challenges it poses for individuals with legitimate mental health struggles.

9. Compassionate Conversations and Reducing Stigma [58:37 – 60:38] In the concluding segments, Michelle and her daughter offer actionable advice for the true crime community and the general public on fostering compassion and understanding towards those with mental illnesses.

Michelle's Daughter:
"People who are really suffering from mental health issues... need compassion and they need empathy more than anything else." [44:35]

They advocate for replacing stigmatizing language with empathy-driven communication, emphasizing that violent behavior should not be automatically attributed to mental illness.

10. Final Thoughts: Hope and Understanding [60:38 – End] The episode wraps up with a reaffirmation of the importance of support, understanding, and dismantling harmful stereotypes. Michelle's daughter expresses hope that sharing her story will help others feel seen and understood.

Michelle's Daughter:
"We're not violent people. Unless, you know, like you said, you're just violent because you're violent. But we're not violent people. We're just regular people and we just want what everybody else wants." [58:49]

Áine Cain:
"I feel like this is going to make people feel seen, if that makes sense." [59:19]

Key Takeaways

• Distinguishing Mental Illness from Psychopathy: Mental illnesses like schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder are often misunderstood and incorrectly associated with violent behavior, leading to increased stigma and isolation for those affected.

• Importance of Support Systems: A strong, understanding support network is crucial for individuals managing severe mental health conditions, aiding in daily functioning and coping with episodes of psychosis.

• Media Representation Matters: True crime media frequently perpetuates harmful stereotypes by conflating mental illness with psychopathy, which misinforms the public and exacerbates stigma.

• Legal System Limitations: The insanity defense is constrained by narrow legal definitions that do not adequately capture the complexities of mental health, often undermining individuals who genuinely need support.

• Advocacy for Compassion: Hosting compassionate and informed conversations about mental illness can foster understanding, reduce stigma, and encourage those suffering to seek the help they need.

Notable Quotes

• "People who are really suffering from mental health issues... need compassion and they need empathy more than anything else." — Michelle's Daughter [44:35]

• "I have never been violent a day in my life, and I don't know anybody that has." — Michelle's Daughter [15:36]

• "A lot of laypeople are talking about a pretty complex topic. But true crime as a whole... have definitely made mistakes in this area." — Áine Cain [04:26]

Conclusion This episode of Murder Sheet serves as a poignant reminder of the profound impact stigma has on individuals with mental illnesses. By sharing personal stories and dissecting media and legal portrayals, Áine and Kevin foster a more nuanced and compassionate understanding of mental health within the true crime discourse. Listeners are left with a call to action: to approach discussions of crime and mental illness with empathy, accuracy, and a commitment to dismantling harmful stereotypes.