Sweet Death: The Murder of Harold Allen: Part Five: Toxic

Summary

Murder Sheet – “Sweet Death: The Murder of Harold Allen: Part Five: Toxic”

Air Date: April 4, 2026
Hosts: Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee

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Episode Overview

In the climactic fifth and final installment of the “Sweet Death” miniseries, hosts Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee unravel the final twists in the poisoning murder of Harold Allen in Jackson County, Indiana. The episode explores the fallout after Marsha Allen—Harold’s wife and prime suspect—evades justice through suicide, and the ensuing investigation and prosecution of her daughter and co-conspirator, Ashley Jones. The hosts delve into evolving legal strategies, emotional interviews, community impact, and the chilling possibility of a wider web of deaths linked to this toxic family.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Shocking Death of Marsha Allen (01:45–05:46)

• Marsha Allen’s Suicide: Hours after her extended police interview, Lt. Adam Nicholson and officers are called to Marsha’s home when she doesn’t answer the door. They find her dead on her bed from an apparent overdose.
  • “She had ingested a bunch of medication...It was ruled a suicide with the pathologist.”
    — Lt. Adam Nicholson (04:09)
• Emotional Fallout: Lt. Nicholson expresses frustration and disappointment that Marsha would not face justice for Harold’s death.
  • “I really wanted her to face justice...I wanted her to go through the process...Justice for Harold’s family. And her and Ashley needed to answer to what they had done.”
    — Lt. Adam Nicholson (04:32–05:46)

2. The Interview with Ashley Jones (07:09–26:20)

• Background: Ashley Jones, Marsha’s daughter, had been arrested and is viewed as a major instigator in Harold’s murder.
• Travel to Interview (07:23–09:35): Detectives recount traveling to Missouri to locate and arrest Jones, with local police initially skeptical of their intentions.
  • “We thought maybe you guys might have been like an ex-boyfriend that was just mad at us...that was a cool experience.”
    — Lt. Adam Nicholson (08:25)
• Interrogation Dynamics (10:10–23:32):
  • Jones maintains composure and claims ignorance about poisoning, insisting, “No, sir,” when asked about ethylene glycol (13:17).
  • She narrates keeping her distance from Harold and frames Marsha as the unhappy party in the marriage.
  • Detectives confront her with text evidence implying her involvement in planning and covering up Harold’s murder.
  • Eventually, Jones admits:
    • Marsha talked of wanting Harold dead:
      “She wanted to be free of him completely. She wanted him dead. And I said, you’re gonna go to hell for that, Mom.” (18:07)
    • Marsha asked her about drugs and poisons due to Jones’ pharmacy tech background.
    • Jones concedes she knew Marsha “intended” to kill Harold but insists she didn't participate directly in the poisoning.
  • Jones references Marsha’s belief in “guides” and mystical protections, rationalizing her mother’s erratic mental state (21:33–22:12).
  • Jones claims that her mother would “tantrum out” if not appeased, depicting herself as a passive bystander.

3. Revealing Marsha’s Suicide to Ashley (24:10–27:44)

• Sergeant Hutchinson informs Jones of her mother’s death:
  • Jones is shocked, initially in disbelief:
    “She killed herself... Oh God. I’m in shock.” (25:28–25:53)
• Emotional Impact: Jones asks if there was a note, which detectives are unsure about, and grapples, “That’s why she did it. Well, you all don’t know.” (27:20)

4. Legal Aftermath & Plea Deal (28:07–32:52)

• Investigation’s End and Legal Strategy:
  • Lt. Nicholson expresses disappointment the case won't see a murder trial, feeling the evidence against Jones was overwhelming, but understands the risk of trial and respects prosecutorial decisions.
  • “I was absolutely 100% willing to risk losing the case at trial, to take her to trial to get the murder conviction.”
    — Lt. Adam Nicholson (30:23)
• Plea Agreement Details:
  • Ashley Jones accepts a plea for conspiracy to commit murder and inducing/causing attempted murder, receiving 45 years (max was 50).
  • Murder and other charges are dropped as part of the deal.
  • Her earliest possible release: March 24, 2061 (32:52–33:04)

5. Community Impact and Reflection (33:15–38:21)

• Burial and Survivors:
  • Marsha Allen: Buried in Scottsburg, Indiana
  • Harold Allen: Buried in Austin, Indiana
  • Ashley Jones: Incarcerated in Indiana Women's Prison
  • Stephen White (accomplice): Due for release soon
• Law Enforcement Bonds:
  • Lt. Nicholson praises the investigative team’s dedication, small size, and thoroughness.
  • “I would put those three up against any department because if it happened, they’re going to find out...”
    — Lt. Adam Nicholson (33:27)
• Media Attention:
  • The story is picked up by 48 Hours and others, and hosts reiterate the importance of rigorous police work in convoluted cases.

6. Possible Wider Web of Deaths (35:24–38:21)

• Prior Suspicious Death:
  • Hosts introduce the case of Tireson Jones, Ashley’s late husband, who died after a major inheritance under suspiciously similar circumstances. His family questions the 'alcohol poisoning' explanation, as does law enforcement.
  • “Ashley had a husband...and he died of the exact same, pretty much exact same causes. I think Marsha was living with them at the time.”
    — Lt. Adam Nicholson (36:33)
• Ongoing investigations into possible serial lethality surrounding Ashley and Marsha.

7. Thematic Reflections & “Toxic” Legacy (38:21–End)

• On Greed and Betrayal:
  • Greed is identified as the core motive, eventually leading the duo to turn on each other.
  • “Put a bunch of grotesque and malformed personalities in a trying situation, and they will eat each other alive.”
    — Anya Cain (38:35)
• Humanizing vs. Othering:
  • Anya muses on whether true crime coverage risks anthropomorphizing murderers’ emotions and the difference between feeling guilt as an ordinary person compared to those capable of murder.
  • Raises the question of whether Marsha or Ashley ever truly felt remorse.
• Lasting Impact:
  • The episode closes considering whether Ashley’s reactions were genuine or just another performance, and the mystery remains partly unresolved:
  • “Was her reaction another calculated performance or something real?...Another poisoned body in the house on the hill in Freetown, and that it belonged to her mother, Marsha.”
    — Anya Cain (42:51)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Wanting Justice:
  “I really wanted her to face justice. I knew what she had done. I wanted her to go through the process...Justice for Harold’s family.”
  — Lt. Adam Nicholson (04:32)
• On Marsha’s Motive:
  “She wanted to be free of him completely. She wanted him dead. And I said, you’re gonna go to hell for that, Mom.”
  — Ashley Jones (18:07)
• On Ashley’s Personality:
  “She has to be the smartest one in the room...if something’s wrong with you medically or you’re not—Oh, I know what that is. It’s probably this... She’s always got an answer for something.”
  — Lt. Adam Nicholson (28:07)
• On Institutional Pride:
  “I would put those three up against any...department...if it happened, they’re going to find out...get to the bottom of it.”
  — Lt. Adam Nicholson (33:27)
• On Family Betrayal:
  “Criminals do turn on one another. Put a bunch of grotesque and malformed personalities in a trying situation, and they will eat each other alive.”
  — Anya Cain (38:35)

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Timeline of Critical Moments

• 01:45: News of Marsha’s evasion of police and the welfare check
• 04:09: Discovery of Marsha’s body; ruled suicide
• 05:46: Shift to Ashley Jones as primary focus
• 07:23: Road trip and arrest of Ashley in Missouri
• 10:10: Start of in-depth interview with Ashley Jones
• 13:17: Direct questioning about ethylene glycol poisoning
• 18:07: Ashley reveals Marsha wanted Harold dead
• 24:10: Informing Ashley of her mother’s death
• 28:07: Reflections on case preparations and anticipation of trial
• 31:52: Details on the plea deal and sentencing
• 35:24: Hints at previous suspicious death tied to Ashley and Marsha
• 38:21: Thematic reflections on greed and betrayal
• 42:00–43:37: Philosophical close on guilt, remorse, and human nature

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Conclusion

This episode provides the final, chilling overview of an investigation sparked by a burglary and ending with two poisoned men, cascading betrayals, and a toxic mother-daughter conspiracy. Through interviews and legal maneuvering, the story highlights the unique psychology of the perpetrators, the dedication of the Jackson County detectives, and the broader impact and lingering questions that remain for all involved.

Transcript

[Lieutenant Adam Nicholson]

Smokey the Bear.

[Anya Cain]

Then you know why Smokey tells you

[Detective Bertram]

when he sees you passing through.

[Anya Cain]

Remember, please be careful.

[Detective Bertram]

It's the least that you can do.

[Anya Cain]

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[Anya Cain]

and this is the fifth and final episode in a miniseries about a sprawling murder investigation in Indiana's Jackson County. If you haven't already, go back and listen to the previous Sweet Death episodes so you don't get lost.

[Narrator/Producer]

Lt. Adam Nicholson wanted to arrest Marcia Allen for the murder of her husband, but the prosecutors on the case felt that they didn't have enough she had not confessed. They were still piecing together what happened and weighing the roles of Marsha and her daughter Ashley Jones, and crafting the best case possible. He was concerned, but it wasn't his call. He was even more concerned on the night of October 16, 2023, when he heard her home address come over his police radio. Hours after her interview, he rushed to her place in Freetown.

[Anya Cain]

Lt. Nicholson arrived at Marsha's home. He was one of the first law enforcement officers there. This was the same home that Stephen White and Kane Napier burglarized, the home where Harold was murdered after being quietly tortured for months. The home that Lt. Nicholson himself had just helped search hours before. Marsha's elderly parents were waiting there with an extra key they had gone to the Jackson County Sheriff's Office because they couldn't reach their daughter on her phone. That turned out to be a false alarm. Marsha's phone was still in evidence due to the extraction. Still, Marsha's car was parked outside her home, and yet she wouldn't open the door. That wasn't like her.

[Detective Bertram]

There's something wrong. I'll tell them.

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

36.

[Detective Bertram]

36, 11. Can you put a 1052 on standby this location, please?

[Detective Burcham]

They're right here in the driveway.

[Detective Bertram]

Well, we can get the key, but we need to get it. We go. Will you go grab the key, Kevin?

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Detective]

All right.

[Detective Bertram]

Let's at least try the key.

[Detective Burcham]

Okay.

[Detective Bertram]

As quickly as possible.

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

They're. They're right here behind the.

[Detective Bertram]

That's fine, but

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

I understand where she's coming from.

[Interviewer/Detective]

Yeah, at least try the key in case something dumb.

[Detective Bertram]

We need to keep them back.

[Detective Burcham]

That's what I told them. I told them they wouldn't be allowed

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

to come up here until

[Detective Bertram]

they can come up here.

[Interviewer/Detective]

I just. I think I know what we're getting ready to find.

[Lieutenant Adam Nicholson]

Hey, Kevin.

[Narrator/Producer]

Lieutenant Nicholson and the other officers took the key and went inside. They called for Marsha. She did not answer.

[Lieutenant Adam Nicholson]

Found her on her bed. She was laying on her bed. So she had ingested a bunch of medication and that's. It Was ruled a suicide with the pathologist.

[Narrator/Producer]

She was dead. She would not face justice for what she did.

[Anya Cain]

Lieutenant Nicholson was deeply disturbed by this development.

[Lieutenant Adam Nicholson]

I had already had suspicions earlier in the day, like when she left. Her demeanor. If you watch that interview, you can see her face when she walks out of the room. Yeah, you could see her face. And it was a long interview. I think it was close to, like, four hours. So I did have suspicions, like, man, I hope she don't go home and do this, because I really wanted her to face justice. I knew what she had done. I wanted her to go through the process. I wanted her. You know, I wanted to. Justice for Harold's family. And her and Ashley needed to answer to what they had done. And it was tough, man. I didn't like it. I didn't like how that ended with that, because I don't like to see people hurt themselves. But in a way, it was like. I know some people may have thought that that was a confession in itself, but. But I really wanted this to go through the process. I wanted this. I wanted.

[Interviewer/Detective]

You know,

[Lieutenant Adam Nicholson]

I wanted to see it go through.

[Narrator/Producer]

But he still had a job to do. He had to go interview March's Co conspirator, her daughter. He had to talk to Ashley Jones.

[Anya Cain]

My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

[Anya Cain]

And this is the Murder Sheet.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases.

[Narrator/Producer]

We're the Murder Sheet.

[Anya Cain]

And this is Sweet Death, the Murder of Harold Allen, Part 5 Toxic.

[Lieutenant Adam Nicholson]

It.

[Anya Cain]

By that point, Ashley Jones had been arrested for the burglary. Keep in mind, the burglary of Marsha's home and the murder of Harold were two separate but intertwined crimes. They were about to come together, though, in a meaningful way because we went

[Lieutenant Adam Nicholson]

to Missouri to see her. We drove all the way out there, just me and Clint, drove out to Missouri, and we were there for, like, an hour and a half. Like, eight hours. We drove eight hours. And we had tracked her phone to a spot. We had to start coordinating with officers out there, saying, we're coming from Indiana. This girl's, you know, killed somebody with poisoning. I mean, this whole story, they're like, this is crazy. Like, when we pulled in. When me and Clint pulled in to Missouri to the sheriff's department, there's, like, four guys that come out of the sheriff's department and, like, full uniform, you know, patrolman. And they're, like, kind of surrounding the car, you know, and they're like, can we see your guys's id? And he's like, yeah, sure. And so we show them the id, and I don't think too much about it. We get in there and sit down and then start, you know, they start buddying up with us. You know, they're like. And then one of the guys finally spilled the bean. He goes, man, we'll be honest. We didn't know if you guys were legit or not.

[Detective Burcham]

We.

[Lieutenant Adam Nicholson]

We thought maybe you guys might have been like, a. Like an ex boyfriend that was just mad at us talking about all this. So that was a. That was a cool experience.

[Interviewer/Detective]

Yeah.

[Anya Cain]

And they're like, these crazy Hoosiers are coming in, and it's messing everything up.

[Lieutenant Adam Nicholson]

Oh, yeah, that's what. Well, they were so entered, like, for, I'd say, a month or so. After we got back, like, one of their detectives, he. He was still emailing me or texting me and saying, like, how's it going? Like, how's it going? What's going on with it? And I've not heard from him in a while, so I'm gonna have to see.

[Ashley Jones]

They got invested, so.

[Lieutenant Adam Nicholson]

Yeah, I think they were all about it. They did an awesome job. I mean, like, we just showed them our warrant and our ping and said, here's where she is. You know, if you can get her phone when you arrest her, that'd be great. And we didn't know how that worked, so they had to keep the phone and get an order from a judge to release it to us. And they had to like take pictures of it before they mailed it to us, how they packaged it and then mail it. And it was. It was a total mess. But it worked. And we, we arrested her and went back to the sheriff's department.

[Narrator/Producer]

Lieutenant Nicholson wanted to confront Jones was what he and his detectives knew. He believed that she was a big instigator in Harold's death. He did not excuse Marsha for her part, but again and again, he saw Jones leading the charge against Harold. In the texts, he saw Jones claiming she was preparing deadly dishes and ordering new poisons. When those did not work, he felt that Marsha had done something incredibly evil. But he wondered if it would have even happened without Jones influence.

[Anya Cain]

On October 17, 2023, Jones sat in the interview room in the Jackson County Sheriff's office. The same interview room where her mother sat twice before. Jones was a young woman. She was incarcerated over the burglary in jail. So she wore a red jail uniform and orange shoes as well as thick framed glasses. Her light brown hair hung loose, waiting for the interview to begin. She sat there quietly, just staring.

[Narrator/Producer]

Lieutenant Nicholson and Detective Burcham came in next. They did not tell Jones what happened to her mother. That could derail things. They were not going to leave her in the dark indefinitely, but they had to get through the interview first.

[Detective Burcham]

Actually, just have a seat right there

[Ashley Jones]

in that corner, if you would.

[Anya Cain]

Okay, we'll be in there.

[Detective Burcham]

Just right over here, please.

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

Thank you.

[Detective Burcham]

We'll be with you in just a minute, okay?

[Interviewer/Detective]

All right.

[Ashley Jones]

All right.

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

Ashley?

[Detective Burcham]

I'm Detective Bertram with the sheriff's department here.

[Interviewer/Detective]

This is Lieutenant Nicholson.

[Lieutenant Adam Nicholson]

Is yours?

[Interviewer/Detective]

Yes.

[Detective Burcham]

We're not going to talk to you about the burglary. Okay?

[Lieutenant Adam Nicholson]

That's not what we're here to talk about.

[Detective Burcham]

Well, actually, we talked to your mom yesterday for four or five hours. We had to talk to her about some things. She answered some questions for us. So we're gonna talk to you about some of that.

[Interviewer/Detective]

Okay.

[Detective Burcham]

Before we do that, I am going to read you your rights because you're in custody.

[Ashley Jones]

All right?

[Detective Burcham]

Make sure you understand that.

[Anya Cain]

Jones faintly nodded throughout the interview, narrow eyed, like she was skeptical about what everyone was saying, like she didn't quite believe she was there talking to these detectives. I have to admit that watching this video, Ashley Jones was not what I expected. The texts she sent were so, let's say over the top. But in person, at least before law enforcement, she was very calm. She had an alto voice that could be soothing. She was very still, almost unnaturally still, like her mother had been in her final interview. Also, like her mom, she came across as extremely believable. Something about me wanted to believe her even after I had read her communications.

[Detective Burcham]

A lot of what we talked about was about the death of Harold. We have some text messages from your mom's phone. She can send it to a download. And there was some text messages on there that we had some concern about the meaning of those text messages. We have an order where some ethylene glycol was ordered on December 13th. I think it was December 13th. December 14th. Ethylene glycol arrived at the address of Your mom's on December 19th. On December 20th, your herald ended up passing away. So that's kind of what we're here to talk about. Do you know anything about the ethylene glycol?

[Ashley Jones]

No, sir.

[Detective Burcham]

Okay.

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[Interviewer/Detective]

Hey, everyone.

[Anya Cain]

Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

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[Ashley Jones]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league anyways.

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[Ashley Jones]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

[Narrator/Producer]

She told the detectives that she had no problem with Harold. She got along fine with him. He was a nice guy. He liked having her kids around since he never got to be a dad or a granddad himself.

[Anya Cain]

That being said, she and Harold did not talk much, even though she and her partner were staying with her mother at the time. They wanted firm boundaries. They didn't want to intrude on the Allen space. They tried as much as possible to keep to their room and to keep the kids out of Harold and Marsh's way. What's more, Jones admitted self deprecatingly that she was not very social.

[Narrator/Producer]

But all that was to say she liked Harold. The one who was mean to him was Marsha. They worked on Jones and worked. The interview was polite, but over time they upped the urgency. They reminded Jones she had kids. Could Marsha have set her up for Harold's death? Lt. Nicholson didn't really think so. Based on the texts, he felt Jones was a big instigator, but he wanted the truth.

[Detective Burcham]

Information we received was that there was Ruger floats that were made and that he. The poison which turns out to be ethylene glycol is put into the root beer float and that Herald drinks it. And obviously the end result was that he died.

[Interviewer/Detective]

What we'd really like to know, Ashley, is if you know that your mom did something that she probably really shouldn't have done. I mean your mom told us quite a bit yesterday. So you know that actually, I mean, do you think your mom's capable of doing something like that?

[Ashley Jones]

I don't know.

[Interviewer/Detective]

Has your mom ever, you know, tried

[Ashley Jones]

to doubt the depression? So I don't know.

[Interviewer/Detective]

Has she ever tried to like throw you under the bus as far as like, you know, maybe. I don't really know throwing you under the bus, but I mean she. Has she ever like ordered stuff using your. Do you have like accounts to where she could have access to order and stuff?

[Ashley Jones]

Yeah, I give her a lot of information so you know, in case anything happens, she's supposed to, to help take care and stuff like that.

[Interviewer/Detective]

So she could have used your account to order something?

[Ashley Jones]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Interviewer/Detective]

What was her and Harold's relationship rock like?

[Ashley Jones]

It was all right. I mean he cheated.

[Interviewer/Detective]

Let's. I had heard that. And also, you know, going through the messages it seemed like she just like maybe they went on. Maybe they went on vacation or something or did they go to Tennessee like kind of right close to the time he died, maybe back in November, around Thanksgiving.

[Ashley Jones]

I don't quite remember the honest cuz they went on.

[Interviewer/Detective]

It just seemed like she wasn't very happy. Like maybe she was messaging you saying, you know, we, you know, just. She just wasn't very happy, you know, like with. With him. So it's raised a lot of concerns with us and you were probably the best the person that knew what their relationship was like, you know, the more than anybody. And. And I just don't want, I don't

[Lieutenant Adam Nicholson]

want you to have more.

[Interviewer/Detective]

More issues. So if you know that she did something with your accounts or that she ordered something using your accounts or. You think she's capable of this?

[Ashley Jones]

I mean, I don't know that she did, but, I mean, she's capable or whatever. She's very intelligent.

[Interviewer/Detective]

There's gonna be one ticket here, and I don't know if you and your mom are gonna fight over that ticket, but we already know what happened to him. We're gonna. We're gonna confirm that here in a couple weeks.

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

All right,

[Ashley Jones]

I know she mentioned of wanting to take that way out, and I told her that that's not the way to go, and that is to be damned for it. Can you.

[Detective Burcham]

You said, I know. I think I know what you mean. But when you say your mom mentioned taking that way out, can you be more specific? Get rid of him in what way? Because you mentioned divorce earlier.

[Ashley Jones]

No, she didn't want a divorce. And I said divorce. She wanted to be free of him completely. She wanted him dead. And I said, you're gonna go to hell for that, Mom. No matter what happens, you're going to hell.

[Detective Burcham]

Or she tells you that she. She wants him dead.

[Ashley Jones]

And I said, for what?

[Detective Burcham]

And that was gonna be my next question. Why?

[Ashley Jones]

She said, he cheats, he puts hands on me, he spends all of our money. I have to be the man. I was like, you can leave. And then she started asking crazier and crazier questions, and now it is making sense.

[Interviewer/Detective]

So we used the word ethylene glycol a bunch today. You say she's never mentioned that when she said she wanted him dead. And she basically asked for your help, you're saying. Right?

[Ashley Jones]

Yeah, she tried. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Detective]

So, like, when you say she would ask you all these questions, and you're like, why would I know? So explain, like, what she asked, like, what was she asking you for your.

[Ashley Jones]

I guess because I used to be a pharmacy tech, she wanted to. She's asking me like, well, what is the adverse effects to insulin? What's the adverse effects to this? You know, things like that.

[Interviewer/Detective]

And you knew then and that she was. That's what she was wanting to know.

[Lieutenant Adam Nicholson]

Right?

[Interviewer/Detective]

Like, you, like, you're like, hey, you said you're gonna go to hell for this. I mean, but you knew that that's why she was asking, like, you. I mean, assume that she plans.

[Ashley Jones]

I thought it was more like, you know, you daydream about something to let it go and not ever do it. You know what I mean? I thought it was one of those weird, sick things.

[Detective Burcham]

But then she starts kind of taking certain steps. Then when she's asking you about this stuff that you may have knowledge in and saying.

[Ashley Jones]

And I didn't put two and two together because my mother.

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

Yeah, right.

[Lieutenant Adam Nicholson]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Detective]

So she. So she does that you are. And then that. That tracking number that you center is this tracking number. So you center the tracking number just so she could. You know, I. Like, whenever you send a text message and it's, like, blue, and you can actually click on it.

[Ashley Jones]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Detective]

So is that what it was like. Like, when you sent it to her? Like, she could actually.

[Ashley Jones]

Blue letters.

[Interviewer/Detective]

Yeah.

[Ashley Jones]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Detective]

Is that.

[Ashley Jones]

She kept saying, do I have anything in my package?

[Interviewer/Detective]

Okay, can you. Can you explain to me, like, how much of the ethylene glycol went into the one drink?

[Ashley Jones]

I wasn't around when she made him.

[Detective Burcham]

Where were you?

[Ashley Jones]

Like I said, I was in the room. I was very serious about that. We were just. Kids were going to bed. We were doing our thing. Door shut.

[Interviewer/Detective]

Okay.

[Detective Burcham]

That you knew she was going to be putting ethylene glycol in the drink.

[Ashley Jones]

I knew that she intended to. She really did. She was getting crystals and bracelets and things to try to protect herself from it.

[Detective Burcham]

She would speak of the guides. Like, speaking to the guides.

[Ashley Jones]

Yeah, she does that a lot. She's done that for years.

[Interviewer/Detective]

So does she refer to the guides a lot as God?

[Ashley Jones]

And I think that's what they are to her.

[Interviewer/Detective]

Okay. Okay. And what is your thought on that? Like, what's your thought on what? Did you. Did you think something also maybe could have been in him?

[Ashley Jones]

I didn't disbelieve it, but I kept my skepticism behind closed doors and told my mother whatever she'd like to hear because I knew what happened. If you don't.

[Interviewer/Detective]

What happened?

[Ashley Jones]

Oh, she tantrums out.

[Interviewer/Detective]

Yeah. Okay.

[Ashley Jones]

Tries to make somebody's life hell.

[Interviewer/Detective]

Mm.

[Ashley Jones]

So you kind of have to just appease her or get the. The raft.

[Interviewer/Detective]

So she. She believes that something's attacked him. Does she know what it is or who it is that's attacking him? Is it a person in her past that she knows has passed away, or is this just a. A random.

[Ashley Jones]

She thinks it made me remember. She thought when his dad died, he told her that he'd never been the same since. He'd been mean after that, because when he died, he saw this black thing come out of his father and, like, wash over him.

[Anya Cain]

She recalled calmly, coolly, how her mother came to her with erratic thoughts, tangled threads of conversations about antifreeze with her mother fretting over the memory of her own father killing a Dog with the stuff. How the dog died badly. Writhing and foaming at the mouth. The detectives challenged Jones. They had her text talking about making root beer floats. Was she sure she didn't remember that?

[Narrator/Producer]

She started to concede that she knew her mom was going to kill Harold.

[Anya Cain]

The demons came back into the conversation. The investigators said Jones ought to not be embarrassed if she shared such beliefs. They just wanted the truth. But no, not according to Jones. She was quite the skeptic. Ashley Jones played the part of the level headed daughter of an out of control, unwell mother. She played it well. But it was not true.

[Narrator/Producer]

Lieutenant Nicholson and Detective Bertram did not tell Jones that Marcia, the woman she was blaming for everything, was dead. Sergeant Hutchinson did afterwards.

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

My name is Jesse. I'm a sergeant here in the detective's office. Okay. So I'm here to talk to you about something completely different.

[Ashley Jones]

Okay?

[Detective Burcham]

Okay.

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

It's not gonna be an easy conversation. Okay. After your mom was here yesterday and spoke with us, we got a call to go check on her welfare at her home. And. She's passed away.

[Interviewer/Detective]

What?

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

She's. She passed away.

[Anya Cain]

What happened?

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

Without going into a lot of detail,

[Ashley Jones]

what you can tell me. She.

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

It appeared that there was something ingested, possibly, and passed away on her bed.

[Ashley Jones]

Hey, you're serious?

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

I'm 100 serious, yes.

[Ashley Jones]

She killed herself.

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

That is what we. Anyway, that's what we believe happened, yes.

[Ashley Jones]

Oh, God. I'm in shock.

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

I'm sorry.

[Podcast Sponsor Narrator (Avocado Mattress)]

I'm sorry.

[Interviewer/Detective]

No, please.

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

There's nothing to apologize for. I felt it was necessary to let you know that like I said, as of right now, that is what we believe happened. I can answer whatever questions you might have to the best of my ability, if you have any.

[Ashley Jones]

Oh, God. I'm not trying to ignore you. I just.

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

Trust me, you're not being rude or anything like that, okay?

[Ashley Jones]

I tried to be. I mean, geez, I know it's.

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

It's a big thing and I understand that. And you take all the time you eat.

[Detective Burcham]

Okay?

[Ashley Jones]

She didn't leave no note. No nothing. You can tell me or.

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

There might have been one of my grandparents. There might have been a note that was left. I don't know exactly the contents of the note right now, so I. I don't know. And we. We spoke to her also about what we spoke to you today about as well. And she knew. She knew everything that we had as well.

[Ashley Jones]

That's why she did it. Well, you all don't know. You said you got.

[Sergeant Jesse Hutchinson]

We will never probably know exactly why, But it's A very high possibility.

[Narrator/Producer]

When he got to the part about Marsha, her mother being dead, she leaned forward, her face contorted in disbelief as she listened. She started to shake and then placed her hand on her heart. She just froze. She cried a little bit, but mostly she just sat in silence.

[Lieutenant Adam Nicholson]

I wanted our detectives to get the experience of it going through. I wanted to have the experience of it going through. I wanted to go through the trial. We talked about it so many times, our detectives and me. Like, will it go to trial? Yeah, definitely, 100%. There's no way that Ashley will plead. No way. She knows way too much to plead, you know, because she was kind of a. You were asking about her personality. She's somebody that has to be. She has to be the smartest one in the room. She has to be the one. If you. If something's wrong with you medically or you're not. Oh, I know what that is. It's probably this. Or if you need a life decision. Oh, I know this. You should do that. Like, she's always got an answer for something. And so I thought that she was probably an attorney too, you know, since she was. Since she was everything else, I figured she probably knew what was best. And so I thought, yeah, there's no way that she'll. That she'll plea. But then we'd have conversations, be like, how are you gonna fight this? You know, how are you gonna. It's all there, you know, and you've already admitted to the, like, these messages and the order. And so I was like, I don't see how you. It can be defended, but, you know, there's some good attorneys, I guess. But we were ready. If that's where it was going, we were ready for that.

[Narrator/Producer]

And the case never went to trial. Marsha Allen was dead, of course. And Ashley Jones did something surprising. She went for the plea deal.

[Lieutenant Adam Nicholson]

Deputy prosecutor come down. And he was like, hey, I need to talk to you guys. I think I got something that may work. And it was like a 45 year deal, I think is what it was. And the max was going to be 50. And so we were like, well, why can't she just have the max?

[Narrator/Producer]

You know, like any murder trial is an inherent risk. The case against Ashley Jones was a powerful one, but one never knows what a juror might think. One lone voice of dissent could derail everything and cause a mistrial. Or a jury could even be swayed into an unexpected acquittal. Anything can happen.

[Lieutenant Adam Nicholson]

I was happy with the amount of years like her getting the if she got 50. But I wasn't happy with them pleading down murder to conspiracy to commit murder, because I was just a firm believer, like, we know she killed him. We know that she did this. I mean, we know that now, and we're ready to prove it. If they don't want to plead to this, then let's take it to trial. I'm willing to risk it all. I was absolutely 100% willing to risk losing the case at trial, to take her to trial to get the murder conviction.

[Narrator/Producer]

Lieutenant Nicholson was disappointed, but he understood the prosecutor's position.

[Lieutenant Adam Nicholson]

They didn't see it that way. And like I said, you know, respect for those guys. Those guys know way more about that kind of stuff than I do. I'm just a lieutenant at the sheriff's department. I don't convict people. But when you put that much work in. Yeah, time at home, working, building messages, timelines on your own time, you know, I mean, that took time away from my family, my kids, my wife, my. My personal life, everything. So I had put my heart and soul in that case and to make sure that it was as strong as it was. So I felt like I had the right to at least voice my. And they knew that. They knew I wasn't happy with her pleading conspiracy, but they also knew that I was happy with the amount of years. If they would have said, she's pleading to murder and getting 50 years, I'd have been like, cool, great.

[Narrator/Producer]

Here's the deal. Jones pled guilty to conspiracy to commit murder, a level one felony, and inducing or causing attempted murder, a level one felony. The Jackson County Prosecutor's Office, through Chief Deputy Prosecuting Attorney Mark Hollingsworth, dismissed the following aiding, inducing, or causing a knowing or intentional murder aiding, inducing, or causing a felony murder, aiding, inducing, or causing consumer product tampering and aiding, inducing, or causing attempted murder. For the two counts Jones was pleading to, the prosecutor's office proposed 25 years in the Indiana Department of Correction for the conspiracy to commit murder charge and 20 years for the attempted murder charge. She got 45 years, as Lt. Nicholson said the maximum she had been looking at was 50 years. The negotiated plea agreement came out on August 7, 2025.

[Anya Cain]

Today, the Indiana Department of Correction lists Jones as being incarcerated in the Indiana Women's Prison in Indianapolis. It lists her earliest possible Release date as March 24, 2061.

[Narrator/Producer]

Stephen White, her best friend forever, is due out in May.

[Anya Cain]

According to idoc, Marsha Allen is buried in the Scottsburg Cemetery in Scottsburg, Indiana.

[Narrator/Producer]

Harold Allen is buried at the New Providence Cemetery in Austin, Indiana.

[Anya Cain]

Lieutenant Nicholson continues to serve his community through the Jackson County Sheriff's Office. That office seems like a close bunch.

[Lieutenant Adam Nicholson]

I mean, we're all brothers here. I mean all of us got, you know, like we, we know everybody, we know everybody's wives, most, most everybody's wives. Kids, our detectives are something special. You know, all those guys we got, we got three full time detectives, so we're smaller than a lot. But I would put those three up against any, any department because if it happened, they're going to find out and they're going to get to the bottom of it and they're going to, you know, it's going to. Attorneys are, you know, telling us, you know, man, you guys did a great job on this case or that not even this case, but, but I mean just other cases like, so they're very thorough, very good.

[Anya Cain]

He also told us about another major case he worked. So he'll be back on the show at some point to talk about that. The Jackson County Sheriff's Office has gotten a lot of national media attention for this case. I can understand why. It's chilling, twisty. The stuff producers on the national true crime shows dream of. Tomorrow, the root beer float murder will air on 48 Hours on CBS. There may be other specials on the case in the future too.

[Narrator/Producer]

We hope that the coverage spotlights the excellent work done by Lieutenant Nicholson and the entire Jackson County Sheriff's Office. It is important to highlight when cases like this happen. It serves as a study for other law enforcement to look at to ensure that future cases are handled correctly. It shows the detectives ought to be open minded even when getting a wild tip. Focus on corroboration, dig deeper, build rapport through interviews, and never give up. This is what Lt. Nicholson and his colleagues did. They should be commended for their work on this case. We really enjoyed getting to learn more about them and their investigation. And we also appreciated seeing how much they cared about getting to the bottom of this one. That's the story of the murder of Harold Allen.

[Anya Cain]

Or is it? Or could it be even bigger than that? What if I told you that Harold was not the only man that died mysteriously after becoming romantically involved with these women? He was actually the second that we know about. The first was Tireson Jones, the cousin of Stephen White, the late husband of Ashley Jones. We mentioned him a few episodes back.

[Narrator/Producer]

Back in 2019, Tyerson received a big inheritance from a relative. According to his family, shortly after that, he was found dead in his home. The circumstances were odd. Jones had him cremated extremely quickly. She told his family he died from alcohol poisoning. Marsha said he died from a heart attack today. His family is extremely skeptical about both those stories. We got the sense that Lt. Nicholson shares their skepticism. He could not tell us much about that case. We imagine he knows quite a lot about it. But it is an ongoing investigation. And Tyerson did not die in Jackson county, so it is not his case.

[Lieutenant Adam Nicholson]

I have to be careful on how much I reveal with Scott County. So Ashley had a husband that she was married to before, and he died of the exact same, pretty much exact same causes. I think Marsha was living with them at the time. So they all lived together and he ended up deceased, which you can see there's interviews on Louisville News where they talk to his family and how they feel. But right now, I think that there is a possibility that Scott county could file that case. I think it goes back to that case because Ashley received a very large sum of money, you know, very, very large. And she had bought houses, cars, shipped money to Marsha, shipped money to friends. I mean, she had never had this type of money, lottery winning money, and she blew it. She blew it within like a year and it was gone. So, you know, she was used to that lifestyle of how she spent her money so fast. I think she needed the money for, you know, so this is where it was her plan to, you know, start working on mom to get rid of Harold.

[Anya Cain]

The tale of Harold Allen's murder is one of the most bizarre stories we've encountered recently. Marcia Allen and Ashley Jones are strange figures. This tale of a routine burglary investigation that turned into a sprawling murder conspiracy investigation for a poisoning that police didn't even know about is fascinating and disturbing.

[Narrator/Producer]

Greed sits at the center of this case. Greed is what motivated this mother and daughter duo to kill Harold Allen. And greed is seemingly what prompted this pair to make the fateful mistake of turning on each other.

[Anya Cain]

It's a story that underscores the fact that in many cases, even in cases where perpetrators share blood ties, criminals do turn on one another. Put a bunch of grotesque and malformed personalities in a trying situation, and they will eat each other alive.

[Narrator/Producer]

Still, that must be cold comfort to all of those who knew and loved Harold Allen, who now have to live with the memory of him suffering and dying. Poisoned, killed by treats served by those who should have cared for him the

[Anya Cain]

most, like Lieutenant Nicholson. I often think of Marsha Allen's face as she left her final interview after she realized it was all over. I also think about Ashley Jones hearing about her mother's death. What were they thinking? What were they feeling? Sometimes you hear people talk about animals. Oh, that crow looks happy. Oh, oh, no, he looks sad. Or that crow is carrying me secret messages from the universe. And then more rational people step in and tell you to stop anthropomorphizing animals, that they are complex and likely feel things. But it's dangerous to pretend they think just like humans, to put our own emotions on them. Sometimes I wonder if we do a version of that in True Crime. I'm not saying that murderers are not humans. They are certainly human beings. It is a comforting societal lie that murderers and predators are apart from the rest of us. They're really not. After all, Lt. Nicholson told Jones at one point in his interview with her that we are all human. We all make mistakes. That is true. But I do sometimes wonder if maybe many, many murderers don't really see or feel or deal with things in the same exact way the rest of us do. Maybe that's why they do what they do. Have you ever messed anything up? Maybe just accidentally, like you break something precious to you or someone you love? I remember breaking my mother's sugar bowl when I was young. I didn't get in trouble, but I felt absolutely awful. I still think about that sometimes. Or maybe you did something bad. Not as an accident, just a selfish bad thing that maybe harmed other people. Or maybe you hurt someone you love, you made them sad. Being human means occasionally making mistakes and having those feelings of shame and guilt and sorrow about them. I personally think it's one of the worst feelings, one of the most painful to experience, especially when you know you were in the wrong. I wonder if this mother and daughter felt anything like that ever. I wonder if Marsha thought of Harold at all when she went back to her house one last time on that October night when she walked through rooms picked over by burglars and deputies alike. When she returned home to find nobody there waiting for her, no husband, no. No daughter, no grandchildren, one less cat. Just a house on a hill left empty thanks to her own choices. When she returned to that bedroom where she then slept alone, where she would go to sleep one last time, did she feel sorry for herself? Did any part of her regret conspiring with her daughter to slowly torture and ultimately kill Harold, a man who always seemed to go out of his way to tell her he would love her forever. And Ashley Jones sitting calm as anything in the sheriff's office, the picture of the harangued daughter whose unwell spiraling mother was threatening to break her down, who had plotted against her stepfather, instigated violence against him, and then turned on her mother and probably her late husband, who seemed to be always searching for the next sacrifice for her, big out of control dreams and paranormal delusions, who talked about demons while never recognizing her own, who had promised Marsha a wonderful life together and then turned on her, called her all sorts of names, betrayed her, sent invaders into her home and never seemed to feel bad about any of it, never seemed to recognize that she so often served as a catalyst, a harbinger of doom, a human toxin that seemed to maim and sicken and kill so many of those she came into contact with at that moment in the sheriff's office. Was her reaction another calculated performance or something real? I'm talking about the moment she found out there was another poisoned body in the house on the hill in Freetown and that it belonged to her mother, Marsha. Thank you all for listening. Thanks to everyone who helped with this episode. Thanks especially to thanks especially to Lieutenant Adam Nicholson. We commend him on the job he and his colleagues did in this case and appreciate his openness and time. We can't wait to have him back on the show. We also want to say that this coverage barely scratches the surface of this whole story. It is a truly winding, mad tale. We very much think that somebody, maybe Lieutenant Nicholson, ought to write a book on the case.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email [e-mail]. if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com murdersheet if you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www. Buymeacoffee.com murdersheet we very much appreciate any support.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the [e-mail] if you're looking to talk with

[Podcast Host/Producer]

other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.