The Cheat Sheet: Attempts and Anesthesiologists

Summary

Detailed Summary of "The Cheat Sheet: Attempts and Anesthesiologists" Episode – Murder Sheet Podcast

Release Date: March 28, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Murder Sheet, hosts Áine Cain, a journalist, and Kevin Greenlee, an attorney, delve into three harrowing true crime cases spanning Louisiana, Minnesota, Hawaii, and California. They employ a journalistic approach, offering in-depth analyses, personal insights, and thoughtful discussions on each case.

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1. Hit-and-Run Tragedy in Louisiana

Case Overview: The episode opens with the tragic story of Josh Woodruff, a 28-year-old tourist from Nebraska who was brutally killed in a hit-and-run incident in New Orleans on January 1, 2016. Woodruff, affectionately known as "Woody," was visiting the city and working at Soylent. His compassionate nature and close family ties made his untimely death particularly heartbreaking.

Details:

• Incident Location & Time: Domain and Decatur streets in the French Quarter around 3:00 AM.
• Vehicle Description: A dark-colored four-door sedan, images released by the police are blurry, lacking clear license plate details.
• Aftermath: Woodruff's body was discovered near the General de Gaulle Drive exit on the West Bank Expressway by 3:30 AM. Security camera footage captured the vehicle, but leads remain scarce.

Discussion: Áine Cain emphasizes the unresolved nature of the case, urging the public to come forward with any information that could aid in identifying the perpetrator. She states, “This really heinous hit and run killing should be solved and people should be held accountable” [Timestamp: 07:50].

Call to Action: Listeners are encouraged to contact Crime Stoppers at 504-822-1111 or the New Orleans Police Department's homicide section at 504-658-5300 if they have any pertinent information.

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2. The Controversial Case of Attorney Sarah Gadget in Minnesota

Case Overview: The discussion shifts to Minnesota, focusing on the tragic murder of Monique Baugh in Minneapolis. Central to this case is Lyndon Wiggins, previously convicted for his involvement, whose conviction has been overturned, leading to a new trial.

Key Figures:

• Lyndon Wiggins: Allegedly involved in Monique Baugh's murder; facing a new trial after his initial conviction was overturned.
• Sarah Gadget: Wiggins' defense attorney, now embroiled in allegations of smuggling drugs into prisons by soaking paperwork with fentanyl and cocaine. She adamantly denies these charges.

Details:

• Allegations: Authorities suspect Gadget of providing drug-soaked papers to inmates, facilitating the distribution of narcotics within prisons.
• Evidence: Searches of Gadget's residence revealed liquor bottles, a prescription syringe, and white powder residue.
• Legal Implications: Gadget argues that the publicity surrounding her allegations compromises Wiggins' fair trial, suggesting that the court should dismiss all charges against her client to maintain impartiality.

Discussion: Áine Cain critiques Gadget's strategy, expressing skepticism about dismissing charges solely based on personal allegations. “I don't know if alcohol or narcotics was involved in this driver's decision making... but he dragged someone that far for that long, it seems like a possibility” [Timestamp: 12:37].

Kevin Greenlee counters by highlighting the ethical dilemma faced by defense attorneys whose personal legal issues might prejudice their cases. He muses, “if such an attorney is suspected of smuggling drugs into the prison... that's going to attract a lot of attention, isn't it?”

Community Impact: The situation has sparked a "#FreeGadget" movement, reflecting the community's divided opinions on the allegations and their implications for the justice system.

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3. Assault by Anesthesiologist in Hawaii

Case Overview: The episode then explores a disturbing incident in Hawaii involving Gerhardt Koenig, an anesthesiologist accused of attempting to murder his wife on the island of Oahu.

Details:

• Location: Poly Lookout Trail, Oahu, Hawaii.
• Incident Time: Approximately 10:00 AM.
• Alleged Actions: After his wife declined to take a photo, Koenig allegedly attacked her by pushing her off the trail, hitting her head with a rock, and attempting to inject her with a syringe multiple times.
• Aftermath: Koenig fled the scene but was apprehended by Honolulu Police after a foot chase down the Pali Highway around 6:00 PM. His wife remains in critical condition at the hospital.

Discussion: Áine Cain reflects on the nature of domestic violence, emphasizing its indiscriminate nature. She highlights a statement from Seno Kai of Women Helping Women: “Both prominent people in our community... DV does not discriminate. People from every walk of life can be affected” [Timestamp: 22:35].

Kevin Greenlee adds, “It's horrific... there should be accountability,” underscoring the need for justice in cases of domestic violence irrespective of the perpetrator’s professional standing.

Insights: The hosts discuss the broader implications of domestic violence, noting that societal perceptions often underestimate its prevalence across different social strata. They stress the importance of recognizing that domestic violence can impact anyone, regardless of their status or occupation.

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4. Vigilante Attempt by Cain Velasquez in California

Case Overview: The final case examines the actions of Cain Velasquez, a former mixed martial artist, who took the law into his own hands after discovering that his four-year-old son had been molested repeatedly by Harry Goular Tay at a daycare.

Details:

• Incident: In 2022, upon learning about his son's abuse, Velasquez embarked on an 11-mile car chase, armed with a handgun, attempting to kill Goular Tay.
• Outcome: During the pursuit, Velasquez wounded Tay and another individual in the vehicle. Tay survived and has yet to stand trial.
• Legal Consequences: Initially sentenced to 30 years, Velasquez was moved to house arrest to be with his child and eventually pleaded no contest. The judge, moved by the circumstances, reduced his sentence to five years, acknowledging that Velasquez is not a threat to public safety.

Discussion: Áine Cain grapples with the ethical complexities of vigilante justice. She remarks, “You can't just, you can't do it,” yet also expresses empathy for Velasquez’s anguish, stating, “I can't imagine the helplessness that a parent would feel in a situation like that” [Timestamp: 35:58].

Kevin Greenlee discusses the prosecution's stance on preventing vigilante actions, noting the delicate balance between ensuring public safety and recognizing the motives behind such extreme responses.

Notable Quote: The judge, addressing the mitigating factors, remarked, “This is a tragic case... mitigating factors really outweigh the aggravating factors,” leading to Velasquez’s lenient sentencing [Timestamp: 32:28].

Ethical Considerations: The hosts debate the repercussions of both the act itself and the judicial response. They consider whether society benefits from rehabilitating individuals like Velasquez or if stricter penalties are necessary to deter similar actions in the future.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee navigate through complex and emotionally charged true crime cases, offering listeners a blend of factual reporting and personal reflection. The discussions highlight the multifaceted nature of justice, accountability, and the human emotions that drive individuals to both perpetrate and respond to heinous crimes.

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Notable Quotes:

• Áine Cain: “This really heinous hit and run killing should be solved and people should be held accountable.” [07:50]

• Seno Kai, Women Helping Women: “Both prominent people in our community... DV does not discriminate. People from every walk of life can be affected.” [22:35]

• Áine Cain: “I can't imagine the helplessness that a parent would feel in a situation like that.” [35:58]

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Additional Resources:

• Contact Information for Cases:

  • Louisiana Hit-and-Run: Crime Stoppers - 504-822-1111; New Orleans Police Department Homicide - 504-658-5300

• Support Groups:

  • Women Helping Women: Advocating against domestic violence across all societal sectors.

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the critical discussions and insights presented in the episode, providing listeners with a clear understanding of each case and the broader implications for the criminal justice system.

Transcript

[Anya Cain]

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[Kevin Greenlee]

And one one of the cases jumped out at me because there's a hashtag associated with it. This is Free Cane. And like I got scared there was going to be an uprising but to the best of my knowledge has nothing to do with you.

[Anya Cain]

It's not because of my latest bust in a serial related theft.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It's running the cane train into a serial factory. Nothing to do with that.

[Anya Cain]

Now you're just now we're jumping the shark here. All right, let's let's do this. My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

[Anya Cain]

And this is the Murder Sheet.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews and deep dives into murder cases. We're the Murder Sheet.

[Anya Cain]

And this is the cheat sheet, Attempts and anesthesiologists. All right, so the first case we're going to talk about is a case out of Louisiana, specifically out of New Orleans. And my source for this was an obituary as well as a press release from the New Orleans Police Department. And this was a listener request. So thanks very much to this listener who asked us to cover this. This was a young man named Josh Woodruff. He was killed on New Year's Day. So January 1, 2016, in New Orleans. He was a tourist visiting from Nebraska. And a little bit of information on this, this guy, he was only 28 years old, really had his whole life ahead of him. He kind of, I think from the obituary, went by the nickname Woody sometimes and was living in Los Angeles, but originally from Nebraska, visiting New Orleans and was working at the company Soylent. But you know, he just seemed to be like somebody who really was considered a very kind, compassionate person, very close with his family, just an all around terrific guy. And that's what makes this so incredibly tragic because he was killed in a really brutal, horrible way and there's still no justice. They don't know who did this to him. So what happened to Joshua was that while he was visiting there for New Year's, he was hit by a car and dragged quite a ways, according to the police, from the French Quarter up to Interstate 10 and then across the Mississippi River. So, like this car took his body quite a ways. Where he was initially hit was at the intersection of Domain and Decatur streets and that's in the French Quarter. This occurred around 3am that day. And the car involved was a dark colored four door sedan. Now, police have released a number of images of this vehicle. Please click on the link in our show notes. You can review those images. They're in the Post. They're very blurry and they don't show a license plate. They don't even seemingly show a partial plate because none has been released, seemingly from what I could tell. So this is all very troubling. He was killed, his body was found about half past 3am on the west Bank Expressway near what the police here was the General de Gaulle Drive exit. So, you know, the car's caught on security cameras. They, they see it, but it's just not really, unfortunately, it's not enough right now. So what, what this case could really use is people coming forward, people being aware that something happened, people being aware in the area at the time, someone getting rid of a car that matches that description or having damage to a car like that, or talking about this afterwards. Police really need someone to come forward and provide the sort of missing details that can get this solved and get some closure for this young man's family. I mean, this is truly horrible. So contact Crime Stoppers if you have anything. It's 504-822-1111. And there's also the homicide section of the New Orleans Police Department. That's 504-658-5300. But yeah, this, this really heinous hit and run killing should be solved and people should be held accountable. And honestly, you know, it's one of those things where I, for some reason, like, I don't, I don't know why, but I mean, I don't know if alcohol or narcotics was involved in this driver's decision making or what happened that evening, but to drag someone that far for that long, it seems like a possibility. And I really don't have sympathy for people who get behind a wheel when they're in that state. I think it's, it's, you're, you're choosing to risk everyone else's life around you along with yourself. I understand that people make bad mistakes when they're under the influence. I certainly can understand that. I can relate to that given my experiences with, with drinking. But at the same time, it's like I just, I can't, I, I can't imagine doing that. Like, I just don't understand. And in this case, it lost a very, you know, promising young person their life. So there needs to be accountability. But anyways, thanks again to the listener who recommended that one.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, I want to hop up to the great state of Minnesota. There's a couple of parts to, to this one. For the crime itself, my source was the mirror.com and for more recent developments, I relied on fox9.com and the Latin Times. Com. So this story I'm about to share goes back to a murder that happened in the Minneapolis area a few years back. The victim was a woman named Monique Baugh. I want to mention her up front because the story is going to go off in a couple of other directions and I just want to center it as much as I could. This portrait. Poor woman, Miss Bob. Just 28 years old for our purposes, Today there's really no point in getting into the gruesome details of her murder. I'll just say it was very, very bad. Just, just a terrible crime. And it involved several people who committed the crime or who were involved in planning the crime. And so one of the people involved in planning the crime allegedly is a man named Lyndon Wiggins. He was actually already been convicted for his role in that crime. That conviction was overturned and he's facing a new trial. And the reason we're talking about it today is because of his defense attorney. This is a woman named Sarah Gadget. And she, in her background, and there's a reason I'm going to mention this, she does have a history of some non violent drug related offenses. She's actually been incarcerated for that. According to the Washington Post. So recently, investigators actually did a search of her home because they suspect her of being involved with smuggling drugs into prison when she goes to visit her clients like Mr. Wiggins. And the way she would do that is she would give the prisoners paperwork which had been soaked in fentanyl, cocaine or things of that nature. And I want to emphasize that Ms. Gad very, very strongly, emphatically denies those charges. She's very offended by them. But I should also note that when police did a search which is outside her residence, they recovered liquor bottles, a syringe prescription with her name on it. And the bottles are said to have tested positive for traces of cocaine, MDMA and heroin. When they did the search of her home, they found stacks of white paper and a plastic baggie with some white powder residue. But she says, oh, you know, some of these tests for drug residue and such, they get false positives. I emphatically deny these charges. But as you, as you imagine, if you live in a community and a noteworthy prominent defense attorney in that community who is involved in high profile cases, if such an attorney is suspected of smuggling drugs into the prison and those suspicions rise to the level that her home is being searched, that's going to attract a lot of attention, isn't it, Anya?

[Anya Cain]

Absolutely.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So this was very, very widely reported. And so Ms. Gad argued to the trial judge in Lyndon Wiggins's upcoming trial. She says, because of all of this publicity about me being allegedly involved in drugs, that's very, very negative. And I'm concerned that because of that, no jury would be able to view this case in an unprejudiced way. They're going to think of me being falsely, in my mind, implicated in this situation. And so the only possible thing to do in this situation is to dismiss all charges against my client.

[Anya Cain]

Making it work for you. Wow.

[Kevin Greenlee]

What's your reaction?

[Anya Cain]

That's dumb. I don't. I mean, like, he's accused of murdering a woman. It's not, you know, like. No, but I mean, I don't know, maybe would the thing to do be, like, to, you know, stop representing him and let someone who's not being investigated for drug stuff be.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I don't know that that would be one option, I would imagine.

[Anya Cain]

Seems like there's other remedies other than like dropping the charges. I mean, I could understand if she's like, that should not be brought into this. That's fair. That should not be brought into the trial. I mean, not. No offense. I mean, this may be getting a lot of press coverage in the, in the Minnesota Minneapolis region. I mean, I've never heard of it. I don't, I don't think that this is like wall to wall coverage. I think they'll probably be able to get a jury pool that's not aware of what's going on.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, that's what the judge said. You know, there's a jury selection process. We can weed out people who may have heard about news stories involving this particular investigation. But yeah, it's interesting because if it had worked, don't you think there are a lot of very devoted defense attorneys out there who would be willing, as a last ditch effort to get themselves falsely implicated in crimes so that all of their clients would get their suits dismissed framing themselves?

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, well, the prosecutor has the opportunity to do the funniest thing in the world when they're accepting a paper exhibit from her. I'm just kidding. No, they should not do that. And I don't think it should be brought up in her client's case because that wouldn't be fair to him. I think if, if they try to sneak that in there, then that would be inappropriate. But, you know, just pick people who aren't aware of it. And I guess I just have a question that this is a lack of familiarity on my part with drug culture, but what's the point of putting drugs allegedly in the papers like cp? Like, do people get like a high from that or they break down the papers and use that? Like, what's going on here?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, you're asking me a question about how to use illegal drugs.

[Anya Cain]

You seem really experienced. I'm just curious if the articles explain that.

[Kevin Greenlee]

The articles just seem to suggest that this is a way to get drugs into prisons for people to use inappropriately. They don't really explain the mechanism of how the people in prison, I guess, would use the drug soaked paper for their pleasures.

[Anya Cain]

I used to watch this sitcom called Keeping Up Appearances with my grandma and my mom. It's like, about this British lady who's like super into being really upper class and stuff. And she's always sending out invitations that she's like spraying with perfume and sending out to make them smell nice and all fancy. And that's sort of what I'm picturing here, but I don't.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, I took a closer look at one of the articles and it does indeed answer your questions.

[Anya Cain]

Thank goodness.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I regret the fact that I somehow looked this over earlier.

[Anya Cain]

Quote, I'm glad you don't know how drug stuff works, Kevin.

[Kevin Greenlee]

That's not, quote, those allegations focused on paperwork laced with drugs. And these are worth big money in lockup is inmates can rip off pieces and put them under their tongue for a high end quote.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, God. Okay. Well, I mean, you do hear about prisons and jails where drugs are amok and you're kind of thinking, how, how. Because you're supposed to be locked up and it's not, you know, that shouldn't be happening, but it does. And that's actually the reality. And I think a lot of places, maybe even most, but in this case, you know, I mean, she's innocent until proven guilty. And, you know, I. If they can show that this is a false positive, then I think people certainly owe her an apology.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I cannot stress enough that Ms. Gad is vigorously contesting these claims and that no charges have been made. Also, all that's happened is there have been some accusations and a search and to rise to the standard to get a search warrant, that's an easier standard to reach than actually arresting someone or convicting someone. So she is contesting this.

[Anya Cain]

Let's talk about one of our favorite people who also happens to do one of our favorite podcasts. Obviously, I'm talking about Jason Blair and his show, the Silver Linings Handbook.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You probably recognize Jason's name because we've been on his show and he's been on ours to talk about true crime, ethics and the media. He's always got thoughtful insights to share, plus he's got all kinds of ideas on how to make true crime a more respectful and compassionate space.

[Anya Cain]

The Silver Linings Handbook is a weekly podcast that's totally interview centric, so you get to hear Jason's in depth conversations with all kinds of inspiring people. You'll hear discussions about, well, being, mental health, the law and the criminal justice system, true crime, religion and marginalized communities, and just about everything in between. For all you True Crime fans, he's had on the hosts of the Prosecutors, the Consult and yours truly.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Jason is a wonderful person with a seemingly endless well of compassion and empathy for others that serves him quite well as an interviewer. We were really gripped by his recent conversations with the daughter of a murdered police detective, the sister of a missing native woman in Montana, and Gabby Petito's father. These were all humanistic and in depth talks that got to the heart of of topics like grief, advocacy and abuse.

[Anya Cain]

We've always enjoyed our conversations with Jason on the Silver Linings Handbook and behind the scenes, getting to listen to his show is a bit like dropping by for one of those talks.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Subscribe to the Silver Linings Handbook Wherever.

[Anya Cain]

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[Anya Cain]

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[Anya Cain]

There you go. Well, it'll be interesting to see what ends up happening. Does it kind of just go away and maybe she was innocent and wrongfully accused? Or does this does this go somewhere and she's been doing something?

[Kevin Greenlee]

And even in the paperwork they say it's possible that she could be an unwitting part of this. That, in other words, someone else is soaking the paperwork in fentanyl or what have you and she's passing it along to people in prison without realizing that.

[Anya Cain]

Right. So she's not necessarily. Even if this is testing positive, she's not necessarily the problem here. Well, that's. That's good to clarify and to know, but. But, yeah. Wow. Yeah. Do you think it would have been appropriate for them to throw out a case based on this?

[Kevin Greenlee]

No, but I don't blame her for trying.

[Anya Cain]

No, you got to try. Geez. I mean, you can't. Just because something's like, not. Not going to work or just doesn't make any sense doesn't mean, you know, in most cases, you got to try.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And also, frankly, from a PR move, I think it looks good for her because it. It's a way to show the world, not only do I contest these charges, but I'm going to stand up for the rights of my clients who I believe are falsely implicated by these charges or who maybe may be affected by these charges. I'm not ashamed to deal with these issues.

[Anya Cain]

There you go. Well, interesting case out of Minnesota.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes.

[Anya Cain]

So now I think we're flying out to Hawaii.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Kane. Plane.

[Anya Cain]

The couch. Why? Just. Just. Yeah, whatever. So. So this is. My source for this was Hawaii News Now.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I called this case to your attention.

[Anya Cain]

You did. You mentioned it. And you knew I was gonna be interested because we both really enjoyed our visit. That we did. To Hawaii. It's a beautiful, beautiful state. Wonderful people. And also, this is concerns. It's a disturbing story concerning an anesthesiologist. And the reason that kind of piques my interest is my dad is an anesthesiologist, but he's a very nice man and also not implicated in any crimes. But he listens to this show, so. Hi, dad. Thanks for listening. And, you know, anesthesiologists are the doctors who obviously focus on anesthesia. That's, in layperson's terms, in stupid terms, it's putting you to sleep before, you know, some sort of operation. And, you know, most of them are really smart, nice people, but unfortunately.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And keeping you alive and safe.

[Anya Cain]

Keeping you alive. Yeah. They don't just, like, knock you out and go get coffee. They're supposed to keep you alive.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Because I've learned from talking with your father and with yourself that the process of keeping someone's body functioning while they are knocked out is a lot more complicated than a simple layman like myself ever thought.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. You don't. It's not just you. You don't just, like, shut down the computer of a person. You. You have to keep them Alive and breathing. You can stop breathing during these procedures. It's very serious. And also it revolutionized medicine. So not to go off on a tangent here, but, you know, if you actually look into the history of anesthesiology, prior to that, there was a lot that was not. We're not able to do because you have someone who's conscience or. Or they're like, you know, you got to get them drunk in order to operate on them. So once we were able to unlock anesthesiology, that really was able to expand a lot. So it's super important. We love the anesthesiologists. Shout out to my dad. Thank you for listening.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We love almost all of the anesthesiologists. Yeah, well, there's one who allegedly. We might not be so fond.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, this guy allegedly did something very horrible, but has nothing to do with the fact that he was a doctor. That just kind of, you know, got us interested. But, yeah, shout out to the anesthesiologists. So this is. This is a case that occurred on Oahu, which is. If you're not familiar with Hawaii, there's several major islands. That's the one where Honolulu is. It is, of course, the capital of Hawaii. And Pearl harbor is there. Pearl harbor is also there. So it's. It's definitely. It's, you know, kind of an important island. This, this physician, although is said to have lived on Maui, which is another important big island.

[Kevin Greenlee]

They're all important.

[Anya Cain]

They're all important. But, you know, I'm talking about the bigger ones. So you got. This guy is named. I'm gonna say his name. Right. Wrong. I'm sorry. It's Gerhardt Koenig or Koenig. I'm gonna say Koenig. And so he's visiting seemingly Oahu from Maui. And. And he is alleged. He. So he was. He was an anesthesiologist. He had a background in Pittsburgh. Previously sort of an assistant professor of anesthesiology and bioengineering at the University of Pittsburgh. Has been living in Maui since 2003. He's married. He and his wife seemingly go on a walk. They're kind of going on a hiking trail in Oahu. And, you know, she. It's. It's the. I'm sorry if I say this wrong, but the. I believe the Poly lookout trail. And at some point the wife declines to take a. This is what's been described so far. All of these are allegations. It's important to stress that early days. But this is how it's being Reported so far, the wife asked to take a photo, or, sorry, he has to take a photo with the wife. She declines, and seemingly he attacks her. So he tries to push his wife off the trail. He hits her in the head with a rock, and also seemingly tries to prick her with a syringe, possibly on multiple occasions. So it's kind of a bizarre situation. Obviously, any sort of violence, you know, partner violence is. Is bizarre and kind of unfathomable on some level, if you really think about it. But at the same time, it strikes me as interesting that, you know, there's being a reason given for him being set off, which is like she doesn't want to take a selfie or a picture or whatever, which is bizarre because that's. There's no good reason to be violent against anyone. But that just seems like a pretty minor quibble. So. But that's almost implying that it's kind of out of nowhere. But then he seemingly has these syringes that he's trying to inject her with, and that almost sounds more like a planned situation. So we'll be curious to see what comes out of that. But anyway, so this attack happens and then he runs for it. So, you know, he's actually kind of on the lamb for a little bit. The attack occurred around 10am in the morning, and then 6pm Honolulu Police officers do a foot chase with him. So they're running down the Pali highway and. Yeah, and they catch him. They got him. So he's been arrested. And, you know, this is, you know, the, the, the. The wife survived. She's at the hospital. She is in critical condition. And I thought this was a really insightful, a kind of statement from Seno Kai. I'm sorry if I'm saying her name wrong, but she's with the Women Helping Women. It's a sort of organization that. That deals with domestic violence. And she said, quote, both prominent people in our community, not just him, but also her highly intelligent, highly successful folks. DV does not discriminate. I think time and time again, people are so surprised when they hear it, that it's their teachers, it's neighbors, it's attorneys, it's everybody from every single walk of life can be affected, end quote. I wanted to highlight that because I think sometimes people talk about domestic violence like it's happening to other people. You know, we think, oh, these people are educated, they're highly qualified, they're highly respected. No way something like that can happen. Domestic violence can happen to anyone in any walk of life. It. It's it's really, you know, it's. We can't treat it like it's something that's totally unfathomable or can never affect any of us. It could affect anybody. It could affect men, women, whoever. People who are married. People are not married. You know, it. It's just something that's unfortunately a scourge in society and we have to be aware of that and not think anyone is immune. So I just thought that was a very profound quote from this.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I agree.

[Anya Cain]

Thank you for highlighting it from this advocate. And yeah, obviously, if it's true that this man attacked his wife in this way, that is horrific. And our hearts go out to her and, you know, there should be accountability there. As of right now, it's. It's something where it's early days and he's been apprehended, but, you know, he's been apprehended and accused of trying to kill her. So it'll be curious to see what happens next. What evidence, you know, is there? Is this a plea deal? Does this go to trial? Is he contesting what happened? What, what goes on? We'll see. I think now we're gonna do your case.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes, this is a California case. And you know, Anya, we've been doing. I don't, I don't remember when we started doing the Cheat Sheet. It feels like decades ago, but since then we've done many, many shows of the Cheat Sheet. And I think in each episode we do four to six cases usually. And each case has at least one source, maybe multiple sources. So we've used all sorts of sources and we will continue to use all sorts of sources. But today, Anya, we are using a great source. We have never used this source before. And I'm going to go out on a limb and say we will probably never use this source again, even though it's a fine source.

[Anya Cain]

What is it?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, I'm going to name three of my sources here for this next case and let's see if you can guess. One of the sources is the LA Times. Another one of the sources is ArizonaCentral.com and the final source is MMA Fighting.com.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, my goodness. Well, I think it might be that one.

[Kevin Greenlee]

They did a great job covering this. You may already be familiar with this. This is the tale of Cain Velasquez, who is a former mixed martial artist. And he, back in 2022, he got some absolutely devastating news. His four year old son had been molested hundreds of times by a person at a daycare.

[Anya Cain]

Oh my God.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And the person who did the molesting was a man named Harry Goular Tay. And maybe I'm mispronouncing his name, but I'm okay with that. So this is who did the molestation. So this is devastating news, and I think this would be the sort of news that be very difficult for anyone to deal with. And Mr. Velasquez, he was upset and he took things to an extreme. He attempted to kill the man who had molested his child. He was kind of a chasing him in a vehicle. He had a gun and he was shooting at the vehicle. It was an 11 mile car chase. He shot and wounded Mr. Goularte and some other people in the vehicle also got wounded. And I, I should say that Mr. Gularte survived and he's not yet come to trial. So that, that's the situation. And when you, you look at it, you could argue that, well, this is, you know, premeditated attempted murder.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And you could then give him a huge sentence, but that seems like it would really be inappropriate. And I believe it was the MMA site that had a great story on this and it talked about how the judge was weeping when it came time to pass sentence on this man. This man was incarcerated for a little while while awaiting this. He was moved into house arrest to be there for his child and he ended up pleading no contest. The judge pointed out that this is a tragic case and that Mr. Velasquez is in no way a threat to public safety. The judge said the so called mitigating. We always talk about mitigating factors versus aggravating factors when it comes to sentencing. And the judge says the mitigating factors in this case really, really outweigh the aggravating factors. And so she gave him a very, very light sentence on a reduced charge. It's five years incarcerated, but he's already served some time, so it's likely going to be less than two years before he's completely free. Wow.

[Anya Cain]

Had the prosecution asked for a lot. And it looks like the judge was. It was a guy, by the way. I think he said she. But. But yeah, was there. Were they asking for something heavier?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Prosecutors asked for a sentence of 30 years.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, my God. Geez. Okay. Wow. Okay, Well, I mean, I. That's. Wow.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And Mr. Lacquez has expressed remorse from the point of view of the prosecutors. This was a planned thing. A guy is driving through the streets, he's firing a weapon. A lot of possibilities for innocent people to get hurt. And in fact, there was someone else in that vehicle who is in no way implicated in the child molestation, who also got hurt. Easy to imagine that person getting killed in this. If things have gone a little bit differently. And the argument from the prosecution standpoint would be we want to send a message that vigilante justice is wrong. So I'm not saying I agree with that sort of thinking, but I'm. This is what the prosecution is likely thinking.

[Anya Cain]

That makes sense. It's funny. I'd be curious to know your thoughts on this. I'm so torn between kind of an abhorrence of vigilante justice. I really think that that's so corrosive. And if we start basically saying, yeah, go ahead and kill some people outside of, you know, the justice system, like, you know, that unravels everything at the same time. I mean, if there was ever a point where vigilante justice was going to be something where you could find it more understandable, it's somebody's child being violated and attacked again and again and again, hundreds of times by a predator and learning that as a parent. And who wouldn't want to go kill that person? I mean, like, let's just be blunt here. I like. So I can completely understand that on a human level, it seems like if Mr. Velasquez was not found to be a threat in other ways, and this wasn't connected to his normal routine or behavior flying off the handle, then I.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And he's already expressed remorse for us. He's pleading no contest.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, I think so.

[Kevin Greenlee]

He's not putting the county through the expense of a trial.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, he's not. He's not trying to mess around and act like something else happened or. No, I think these guys killed him, not me. So, I mean, good for him. I mean, like. Yeah, that almost feels like two years is too much. I don't know. I mean, it's unfortunate this, this other man got injured in the process of this. Obviously he. If he wasn't involved in that child molestation situation, then, you know, he certainly didn't deserve that. And I imagine, you know, there would be want, you know, wish for accountability on that part, but just like on.

[Kevin Greenlee]

A. Yeah, I'm not even sure, now that I think about it, if he ever actually hit the person he was aiming for. But he did strike Gulart, his stepfather.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Who got non life threatening injuries.

[Anya Cain]

So non life threatening. But, you know, it's. It's certainly more tragic outcomes could have happened. But yeah, like on a human level, you're kind of just like, I don't know, like, kind of give him a pass a bit. You know, I, like, even though, again, like, again, like, I'm normally the person where I'm like, no, if you can't do that, that's not right. Like, that's. You can't, you can't just can't do it. But in this case, I'm kind of like, I don't know.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, I understand you're thinking. I, I think there needs to be a consequence because this, this sort of thing cannot be tolerated. But I do understand it and I sympathize. And in no way should he have been sentenced to 30 years.

[Anya Cain]

30 years is ridiculous. That's. I mean, I, I get the prosecution. The state can't just be like, yeah, you know, go ahead. You know, like. Because then other people are going to do it. And also you have to, you know, with vigilante justice, this is inevitably, it just becomes not no justice because you have people just claiming things and then acting out upon it, and it turns out like, you know, they're going after people who weren't even guilty of whatever they were accused of. I mean, that's how we get lynchings, right? In this country's, you know, disgraceful history with lynchings, there would be situations that would happen where people targeted for the color of their skin or their backgrounds who would be lynched and, you know, they didn't do anything. You know, they, they were the victims of a mob. But, you know, so you don't ever want to. We don't ever want to be like, super tolerant about vigilante justice, but you also want to look at a situation where is the offender likely to go out and do something harmful? Again, this going to be something where this person continues to pose a risk. Does society benefit from keeping him away from other people and away from society? Or is this someone who perhaps can be rehabilitated, has learned their lesson, has learned that he shouldn't have done this.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I mean, yeah, I keep threatening, but one of these days we should do an episode just on sentencing, just discussing what judges can consider what the thinking behind it is and things of that nature.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, so, like. Yeah, like how this works. Because it's not. Yeah, yeah. I think it would be interesting. Maybe we could do Anatomy of a Trial episode on that. You know, it's. Yeah, it's. It's very sad. I just feel very bad for Velasquez and his family that all this happened and, you know, it. It's truly tragic. I can't imagine the helplessness that a parent would feel in A situation like that.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Right.

[Anya Cain]

And the rage, frankly. Well, yeah. So he's. So you say he's probably gonna serve about two years.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah. Maybe a little less.

[Anya Cain]

And there's like a hashtag, Free Kane thing that's about this and Mr. His.

[Kevin Greenlee]

First name is Kane.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. And it's spelled correctly, like mine, so good for them. No offense to the other. To the K, A, I, N, S or the knes. Well, you know, I, I. Yeah, that's. It's very sad. I'm glad you didn't get a maximum sentence on that, because that, that seems really excessive given the circumstances. Well, are we wrapping up now?

[Kevin Greenlee]

We're wrapping up.

[Anya Cain]

We're getting out of here.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We're getting out of here. You're laughing nervously.

[Anya Cain]

Never know what you're going to say.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I'm just sitting here and being a perfect gentleman.

[Anya Cain]

That's what you tell yourself. So we. We have shirts and a book. You know the drill. Come on. If anyone's listening to the first time to the show for the first time, first of all, I apologize. Second of all, all the links are.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I noticed on Facebook, people are really curious to know why pre orders matter. Do we discuss that? Are we allowed to discuss that?

[Anya Cain]

I think we're allowed to. I just didn't want you talking about stuff that we didn't, like, have locked down. So it's not like a secret. It's not like I'm trying to cover anything up. Guys, don't worry about it. Stop asking me. It's because I think once you have a lot of pre orders, you have momentum going into early sales, and that can help sales pick up even further. It's like, probably, you know.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, my understanding is that on publication day, all the pre orders that have stacked up basically count as people buying the book on one day, the publication day. And so if you have a lot of pre orders that have stacked up, I know by gum, you've sold a lot of copies on day one, and that increases the odds of making a splash on day one. And if you make a splash on day one, that really helps with momentum.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, that's why I said momentum. It's all about momentum. It's all about momentum on the cane train. Now I'm doing it.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I didn't even do it.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, you know what? No, it's your fault.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I was trying to transition earlier to the space age and do the cane plane. But if you want to stick with the train, I'm fine with it.

[Anya Cain]

I don't want any of this. You and your antics. All right, well, I think we're done, right? Can we. Can I hit the button, please?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I'm not stopping you.

[Anya Cain]

All right, I'm doing it.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email [e-mail] if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[Anya Cain]

If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com murdersheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www.buymeacoffee.com murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the [e-mail] if you're looking to talk with.

[Anya Cain]

Other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So, Anya, before we let people go, I wanted to talk again about the Silver Linings Handbook, and more specifically, I want to talk about Jason Blair, because certainly there have been times when something happens, we don't know what to do. We're just out here rubbing two sticks together and we need to turn to somebody for advice. I'm sure everybody's had that experience. We need to turn to somebody for advice. And one of the people we turn to most often is Jason Blair. He's always been there for us. He's always willing to give you time. He's always willing to give you great advice. Now, what's wonderful is that everybody within the sound of my voice has access to his insights and his compassion and his advice, because you can find all of that on his podcast.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, he's. This podcast is a bit like being able to sort of sit down and sort of hear some interesting insights. I always feel inspired by it. He's had on some really incredible guests recently, and they've had just such, like, heartbreaking, real conversations with people like Jim Schmidt, who his daughter, Gabby Petito was murdered. Jim just came across just as such a real and empathetic and wonderful human being. He was even given. One of Jason's friends kind of told him recently about some abuse she had suffered. Jim was giving advice. I mean, it was really incredible. I'm thinking of Kimberly Loring. Her sister went missing in Montana. It's another case involving a native woman. So raising awareness about that, talking to the woman who lost her father, who was a Los Angeles police department detective. He was murdered so he couldn't testify at a robbery trial. Just like awful stuff. But ultimately really focusing on the compassion and allowing people the space to tell their stories. I think Jason shines as an interviewer because he has that natural empathy and curiosity too. Whenever I'm thinking of a question like, oh, I hope they get into this, like he's asking it two seconds later. So it's a really enjoyable listening experience. And I feel like whenever we listen to it, you and I end up like discussing some deep stuff like religion or, you know, what we. What kind of like positivity we want to share with the world. So I think if you're. If you're looking for that and you're looking to have those kind of thought provoking conversations in your life, this is the show for you, 100%. So I would just say that if you're interested, subscribe to the Silver Linings Handbook wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Can we talk a little bit before we go about quints, a great new sponsor for us? I think in one of the ads that we've already done for them, we talked about the compliments I'm getting on my jacket. I know you're a very modest woman, but can we talk about the compliments you're getting on the quince products you wear?

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, I've got two of their Mongolian cashmere sweaters. They're a brand that just does this sort of luxurious products, but without the crazy costs, really. Well, they are. They give you Italian leather handbags. They do like European linen sheets. You have a really cool suede jacket. And I really like the way I look in my sweaters. I like the way you look in your bomber jacket. It looks super cool.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You've gotten a lot of compliments when you go out wearing these sweaters.

[Anya Cain]

I think I have, yeah. It's. And deservedly so also, like, I'm one of those people. My skin is very like, you know, like I, I kind of sensitive. So when it comes to wearing sweaters, like, you know, sometimes it's something's too scratchy, like it really bothers me. These are so soft. They're just like very delicate and soft and make they're wearing them is lovely because they're super comfortable. You're not, you're not. It's not one of those things where you're like, you buy it and it looks great, but it doesn't feel that great. They look great. They feel great. Yeah. I really love them. And you got, you know, your cool jacket. I mean, that's a little bit of a. You, you're the guy who like wears the same thing all the time. So this was a bit of a. A gamble for you, a bit of a risk. You got something a bit different.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I do wash my clothes.

[Anya Cain]

I know you wash your clothes, but I mean, you're filthy.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You just made me sound awful, so. No, I. I wash my clothes.

[Anya Cain]

But you don't really.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I launder them.

[Anya Cain]

You don't really exper with fashion that much is what I'm saying. So this is a little bit out of the norm for you, but I think you really like it and it looks good.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Thank you. Great products, incredible prices. Com.

[Anya Cain]

There you go. So you can go to quince.comm sheet and right now they're offering 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. So it's quince.commsheet that's Q U I N C E.com/M S H E-E-T.