The Cheat Sheet: Australia and Aiding and Abetting

Summary

The Murder Sheet Podcast – Episode Summary: "The Cheat Sheet: Australia and Aiding and Abetting"

Release Date: July 25, 2025

In this compelling episode of The Murder Sheet, hosts Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee delve into a series of gripping true crime cases, exploring developments both internationally and within the United States. The episode skillfully navigates through complex legal topics, cold cases, and the intricate dynamics of criminal investigations, providing listeners with in-depth analysis and insightful discussions.

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1. Revisiting the Australian Bradley John Murdoch Case

The episode opens with a revisit to a high-profile Australian case involving the disappearance of Peter Falconio and Joanne Lees. The hosts recount the harrowing events of July 14, 2001, when Falconio and Lees were traveling through the remote Stewart Highway near Barrow Creek in Australia's Northern Territory. Their encounter with Bradley John Murdoch, a convicted murderer, remains one of Australia's most unsettling mysteries.

Key Points:

• Incident Details: Peter Falconio and Joanne Lees were followed by Murdoch, who initially claimed there was an issue with their vehicle. The situation escalated when Murdoch brandished a handgun, leading to Lees being abducted and fighting her way to safety. Tragically, Falconio's body was never recovered.

• Murdoch’s Conviction: Murdoch, with a history of violent offenses, was convicted for the murder of a motorcycle rider and the rape of a 12-year-old girl. His connection to the Falconio case was solidified by the discovery of his DNA on Lees' clothing.

• Family's Quest for Answers: Despite Murdoch's conviction, Falconio's family remains distressed, yearning for closure regarding the whereabouts of Peter’s body.

Notable Quote:

Áine Cain at [08:21]: "I hope Peter Falconio's family gets answers at some point. Unfortunately, those did not come from his killer."

2. Felony Murder Law Changes in Minnesota and the Burger Chef Case

Shifting focus to the United States, the hosts examine recent legal reforms in Minnesota concerning the felony murder rule. This segment is anchored by the Burger Chef case, a perplexing situation where prosecutorial decisions have sparked debate over fairness and justice.

Key Points:

• Definition and Controversy: Felony murder allows individuals involved in a felony to be charged with murder if a death occurs, irrespective of direct involvement. This concept is contentious, as it sometimes penalizes individuals who did not directly cause the death.

• Minnesota's Legal Reforms: Minnesota has retroactively adjusted its felony murder statutes to ensure that only major participants with extreme indifference to human life receive the most severe penalties. This change aims to rectify situations where lesser-involved parties previously received disproportionate sentences.

• Burger Chef Case Insights: In the case of Rosalind McDonald Richer, her involvement in a robbery led to a life sentence, whereas the actual shooter received a 33-year term after accepting a plea deal. This disparity has raised concerns about the fairness of felony murder charges.

Notable Quote:

Kevin Greenlee at [17:51]: "We're seeing things like Rosalind McDonald Richer... she was freed. So we're seeing things like that."

3. Missouri’s Brendan T. Yeager Case: Stalking and Mental Health

The episode transitions to Missouri, where the disturbing behavior of Brendan T. Yeager has caused fear and anxiety among local women. The hosts discuss the intersection of mental health issues and criminal behavior, emphasizing community safety and the necessity of appropriate legal responses.

Key Points:

• Incident Overview: Between April 11 and April 27, 2025, Yeager was charged with multiple counts of harassment for stalking women in Shaw Park, Missouri. His actions included following women closely, causing them to fear for their safety, and exhibiting disturbing behavior.

• Legal Proceedings: Yeager has undergone a mental examination to assess his competency and the extent of his mental health issues. The court has ordered his temporary commitment to a secure facility pending further evaluation.

• Societal Implications: The case highlights the challenges of addressing criminal behavior rooted in mental illness, advocating for solutions that protect victims while providing necessary mental health support for perpetrators.

Notable Quote:

Áine Cain at [35:55]: "It's punishing to have an adult male stalking you, especially when you have a baby."

4. Pennsylvania Cold Case: The Resolution of Annette Rose Tsoaal’s Murder

In a heartening turn, the hosts shed light on the resolution of a decades-old cold case in Hopewell Township, Pennsylvania. The murder of Annette Rose Tsoaal in 1974 has finally seen some closure, thanks to advancements in forensic technology and dedicated investigative efforts.

Key Points:

• Case Background: Annette Rose Tsoaal, a 23-year-old from Hopewell Township, was brutally murdered in 1974. The case remained unsolved for over 50 years, leaving her family without answers.

• Breakthrough Through Forensic Genealogy: DNA evidence, specifically semen found on Tsoaal’s jacket, was re-examined using modern forensic genealogy. This led to the identification of Walton Sims, a previously suspected individual, whose brother failed a polygraph test regarding Annette's murder.

• Collaborative Efforts: The resolution was made possible through the collaboration of multiple agencies, including the Hopewell Township Police Department, Pennsylvania State Police, and various forensic and investigative organizations.

Notable Quote:

Kevin Greenlee at [40:35]: "It's worth every penny to bring closure to this family. They have been waiting over 50 years for these answers, and now they have them."

5. Advocacy for Cold Case Investigations and Community Involvement

Wrapping up the episode, the hosts emphasize the importance of community advocacy in solving cold cases. They highlight how public interest and support can drive resources toward unresolved crimes, ultimately providing solace to affected families.

Key Points:

• Role of True Crime Media: True crime platforms like The Murder Sheet play a pivotal role in keeping cold cases in the public eye, encouraging collaborative efforts between the community and law enforcement.

• Call to Action: Listeners are urged to support cold case initiatives by advocating for dedicated resources, participating in advocacy groups, and spreading awareness about unresolved cases.

Notable Quote:

Áine Cain at [41:32]: "We want to see progress. And that when that progress is made, we celebrate it... but we celebrate answers."

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Conclusion

This episode of The Murder Sheet masterfully intertwines international and domestic true crime narratives, offering listeners a comprehensive exploration of each case's nuances and broader implications. Through thoughtful analysis and engaging dialogue, Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee provide both informative and empathetic perspectives on the pursuit of justice and the complexities of the legal system.

For those seeking deeper insights into these cases and more, The Murder Sheet continues to be a valuable resource in the true crime podcasting landscape.

Transcript

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[Anya Cain]

Content warning this episode contains discussion of murder and violence so today on the Cheat Sheet, we're going abroad again. We're going to Australia. We're going back to Australia. We covered the mushroom case out of Australia pretty recently on here and we're going to cover a different case where there was a development in Australia, Pretty well known case there. We're also taking on a case in Missouri that we covered previously. And then I think you have two different cases. Where are they based?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I'm talking about things in Minnesota and Pennsylvania.

[Anya Cain]

So all aboard the Kane train. Let's get on this. My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

[Anya Cain]

And this is the Murder Sheet.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews and deep dives into murder cases.

[Anya Cain]

We're the Murder Sheet and this is the Cheat sheet. Australia and aiding and abetting.

[Kevin Greenlee]

All aboard the cane Train. Surely you can have more enthusiasm for that. I can say in fairness, we've not had caffeine yet this morning.

[Anya Cain]

I do not need this review right now.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Let's just have some enthusiasm.

[Anya Cain]

Give me this dumb cane train thing that I gotta play along with and then you're criticizing my conductor abilities.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You want to be like a carnival barker, just encouraging people that all the wonders that await if you board the cane train, sir. All aboard the cane train, sir.

[Anya Cain]

There are enough carnival barkers in true crime as it is. We do not need to add to that.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Ah. I gave you like a straight ball right down the middle. You hit it out of the ballpark park. So I think your case is first. You told me the order and I've already forgotten.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, so have I. So, yeah, no, we're going to Australia first. We're going to start with that. This is one of those cases that's one of the, you know, a pretty well known one outside of Australia. And the reason I'm talking about it, my source for this is the nightly is I saw this when I was just sort of looking through different cases. There's been an update because the convicted murderer, a man named Bradley John Murdoch at age 67, died of throat cancer. And the reason why this is I guess maybe promote prompting mixed reactions from his murder victim's family is that he never told them where the body of his victim is. So let's go back in time all the way back to July 14, 2001. And so we're talking about a place called, it's the Stewart highway is near Barrow Creek in Australia's Northern Territory. So this is kind of like if you're looking at Australia, it's sort of think about the center of the country and then the northernmost part and there's, I think Alice Springs is the largest sort of area around there where people live, but it's, you know, it's remote and two tourists, two tourists, a couple are traveling together around there. And the, the man is named Peter Falconio, he is from England and his girlfriend Joanne Lees, who, who's also from England, they are, they're just traveling there. It's like a, it's like a trip for them. And it's just the latest leg of their trip. They had been going through different countries, I think Nepal, Malaysia, Thailand. And then now they're doing Australia. And they were going on this highway and they noticed a car following them. And when the person who's driving this white Toyota 4wd pulls behind them or pulls alongside them, he starts, you know, gesturing for them to pull over. And Falconio, who is driving, he does so. And this stranger says, oh, you know, I, I saw some sparks coming out of your van's exhaust, you know, sign of a problem. So they go to the back of the vehicle to like, look at what's going on. And suddenly Lis, who is still in the car and who is moved into the driver's seat so she can rev the engine. When they're kind of going back and forth, she hears a big bang. And then suddenly sees this stranger holding a handgun. He grabs her, he ties her up and, you know, pulls her into his vehicle. But she actually is able to like, Fight her way free and runs into the wilderness and into the bush, as they call it in Australia. So this is, you know, this saves her life, most likely. But unfortunately, Peter Falconio's body is never found. And what's interesting is that this case actually generated sort of a media sensationalism frenzy and Lise herself came under a lot of scrutiny and criticism where people are, you know, it's the, it's the classic thing where it's like someone's been through a trauma, let's pick apart their story to the point where like we're just arguing about like minutia or like things that are not a huge deal and shame that person for what they've been through. And then it turns out, oh wait, there is an actual murderer and this did happen. And you know, that guy was named Bradley John Murdoch. He had a history of sexual offenses. You know, he, I think hit it and killed a motorcycle rider with, with his car and killed them, you know, raped a 12 year old girl. Just, just a, you know, horrible person. But he, he did this and he was convicted, so he remained in prison. But of course, you know, understandably, Peter Falconio's family, they want to know where is, where is their son? You know, in, in the chaos of Lee's escape, you know, she was like hiding out for hours and hours and hours trying to escape a guy who just, you know, she never saw the guy shoot her boyfriend, but heard a bang, he never shows up. Suddenly he's tying her up and, you know, yeah, it's, it's horrible.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It is horrible.

[Anya Cain]

But I, I mean, I hope they do eventually find him. But you know, the, the one thing that I think did, I should note what kind of really sealed the deal for I think this case was that Murdoch's DNA was on Joanne Lee's clothing. So it was like one of those things where it's like, okay, like this, this kind of, this kind of locks it into him being involved in this. And I know that she actually, you know, she's, she's since I think come out with a book and whatnot. But yeah, I mean, I hope she's okay and I certainly hope Peter Falconio's family gets answers at some point. Unfortunately, those did not come from his killer.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Right.

[Anya Cain]

So that is my case in Australia now. I think we're heading back to the United States.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think we're going to go to the great state of Minnesota.

[Anya Cain]

Okay.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Minnesota, indeed.

[Anya Cain]

You've been to Minnesota?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I have been to Minnesota.

[Anya Cain]

I think. You went to a prison there?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah. I went to a prison there because I got. I'll tell this story very briefly because it's a very. It's a bizarre story. So I'm doing some research on the Berger Shaft case, and somebody who has a familial relationship to someone who is a suspect in the crime. I write to him, and he sends me back a postcard where he says, oh, yes, this person and I, we talked about the case. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the last line on this postcard at the very bottom of the postcard says, there's more I have that I know about, but I just don't have room on this postcard. And I thought, this guy knows stuff. He says, I have more to say. And so I go all the way up to Minnesota. I jumped through all of these administrative hoops to be able to visit this person who is incarcerated. And he and I are in a little room by ourselves, and he says, oh, yes. And then he tells me what else he knows about the case, which is, like, one line. So if the postcard had been slightly bigger, that would have completely exhausted his knowledge of the case. So it was. My trip to Minnesota was not productive.

[Anya Cain]

It just kind of like. That case, however horrifically tragic it is, remains at some point, like a dark comedy at times. Yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

This is the Burger Chef case.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. Because that just sounds like something out of a dark comedy where it's like, you're like, I'm gonna get the answer. He's like, oh, no, I'm just wasting your time.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah. And it was like kind of a minimal security prison, too. So it was very much like an old high school or something. I don't know if it literally was an old high school, but it had the feel of a whole old high school. And he and I were in, like, what would been the equivalent of, like, a counselor's office, like a high school, with all these desks and stuff just outside the door, trying to figure out.

[Anya Cain]

What job he wants as an adult.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah.

[Anya Cain]

Gosh.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, anyways, that was before I met you, I believe.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Because I'm sure you would have put a stop to that.

[Anya Cain]

No, I. I would have. I. I'm not gonna lie. I would not have. I would have gone with you. I would have been like, let's go. Let's find answers. And then we would have both been disappointed. So I can't say I would have put a stop to that one.

[Kevin Greenlee]

The classic wild goose chase story for us involving Burger Chef.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, my goodness.

[Kevin Greenlee]

There was a suspect in the case who lives somewhere In Houston. And he was thought to be homeless, so no idea where he is. But he has, like, a banner photo on his Facebook page which shows the wall of a restaurant doesn't name the restaurant, just has the wall of the restaurant. And so you and I, Ms. Cain, we spent a lot of time studying this wal. And we figured out what restaurant it.

[Anya Cain]

Was because there was, like, a poster that. Or like. Like a picture. Like, the picture included something, like, with the menu. And we were able to, like, lock down this menu design.

[Kevin Greenlee]

The details don't matter. What matters is we were very clever, honestly.

[Anya Cain]

But it made me so impressed with you because we were both, like, bouncing ideas off each other. I don't know.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So we figured, wait, this is his. His little banner picture on Facebook. Maybe this is where he works. Maybe this is the key. So we buy airplane tickets.

[Anya Cain]

We do.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We buy airplane tickets, ladies and gentlemen, and we fly down to Houston. And we've talked beforehand to people who've known this man, and they've given us all of these little hints and ideas which are ridiculous. Somebody says, oh, he's very religious, so be sure to wear a big cross.

[Anya Cain]

I wore a big cross.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So we go there, and nobody knows who he is. He just took the picture randomly. I think he had, like a Coca Cola there once. And he really liked it. Cause we found him later.

[Anya Cain]

We found him later. So we were like, oh, is this guy here? And they're, like, looking at us like, what? Cause we thought basically, like, we can. Like, this is how dumb we can be. We were like, the photo looks almost like it was taken, like, in a. From the angle of being in a back room. So maybe he, like, works there in the. As a short order cook or like a dishwasher or something. Nope. That was a. Yeah. So sorry, Houston. We had a. We had a. We had a bad experience there. Not because. Not because the city is bad, just because of our own. Ridiculous. Yeah, there was a lot of driving around Houston that day.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Anyways, so I'm talking. Let's get back on.

[Anya Cain]

Go back. Go back to wherever the hell. Where are we going here?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Minnesota.

[Anya Cain]

Minnesota.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And because, as I mentioned, you've not had caffeine yet. I haven't discussed this with you, so I'll be curious. I have no idea what your opinion is going to be on this matter. So we talk. My source for this, by the way, is fox9.com fox9.com so we talk on the show a lot about felony murder. Anya, what is felony murder?

[Anya Cain]

So felony murder. I can't speak in legal terms, because I'm not a lawyer, but in my understanding is when you are committing certain felonies that may be viewed as perhaps inherently dangerous, and someone dies as a result of you committing those felonies, even if you do not directly cause that person's death, if the felony can be argued to cause that person's death, you can be charged with felony murder. So the classic example is if Kevin is the getaway driver for me when I'm heisting the local Walmart of their cereal, and. And something goes horribly wrong, and in my, you know, felony armed robbery, I. I shoot somebody. Kevin, although he's none the wiser to my erratic actions because he was participating in this felony robbery, he can also be charged with felony murder. It's a tool for prosecutors. Some people find it controversial because they're saying, well, you know, that's not fair because Kevin didn't really do anything. Other people say it's an important tool for prosecutors to be able to negotiate, you know, get cooperation, but also hold people accountable in situations where, yeah, you caused this murder essentially by doing this horrible, ridiculous thing, even if you didn't directly pull the trigger.

[Kevin Greenlee]

But then you do. Pardon me, as you alluded, you do often end up in situations where a person who did not pull a trigger and who did not directly cause a death ends up getting charged with felony murder. And in some instances, including one of the instances I'm about to discuss, the person who pulled the trigger takes a plea deal and gets a much lesser sentence than the person who did not actually pull the trigger and cause the death. And this is something that, to a lot of people, there's just something inherently wrong about that. And it seems unfair to many people that a person who did not directly cause a death may get stronger punishment than a person involved in the crime who did cause the death.

[Anya Cain]

Well, yeah, I mean, I can understand that. I will say, though, I mean, there's instances where that should be the case. For instance, give me. I'll give you a for instance. If a husband says, I'm going to, you know, kidnap and torture. I'm going to have my wife kidnapped and tortured by a hitman so that she signs over some property to me or something like that, you know, and he has someone else do that and she dies in the kidnapping, then I would actually. I could live with the person who actually did the kidnapping, who's horrible. I could live with them making a deal to bust the husband who instigated this. So, I mean, there's certain, like, I Think it's nuanced? I think in some instances, yeah, that's a problem. In other instances, maybe. Maybe someone actually is more culpable because they're the one who set everything into motion in a. In a very knowing and concrete way. Does that make sense?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I understand what you're saying. So while we're talking about this, again, pardon me, Minnesota recently passed a new law on this, and they are changing the way they look at and deal with felony murder. And so from now on in Minnesota, you can only get the most serious charges and penalties dealing with felony murder if you were a major participant in the murder plot and if you act with extreme indifference to human life. And I say from now on, and I misspoke, because this was actually also applied retroactively.

[Anya Cain]

Uh oh.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And so there are a couple of cases here where people who were charged and convicted of felony murder have been able to go back and say, well, I wasn't a major participant in this. This murder, and so I should get a lesser sentence. And they've gotten those lesser sentences. And as a result, some of the prosecutors in the state have said, well, this is not constitutional. This isn't fair. And also some victims rights advocates also say, well, these people should serve the full sentence they got when they were sentenced. But they are cases where Rosalind McDonald richer, she was convicted when it looked like it was a robbery. The shooter got 33 years in prison and she got life in prison. So the shooter got less time in prison than she did because he took a plea, and she didn't. And she didn't actually shoot the person. And so she got a reduced sentence. She got sentenced on lesser charges of robbery and aggravated assault. And so she was freed. So we're seeing things like that. And the defense attorneys would say, well, what we're seeing here is these people are actually getting sentenced for the crimes they actually did, and they're not getting sentenced for the crimes that their associates did. So I'm curious, what is your take on some of this? I think basically, they're trying to introduce some more nuance and more flexibility into the law.

[Anya Cain]

I mean, there's nuance and flexibility. If a prosecutor feels like I want to charge her with robbery rather than felony murder, you can do that. And if she wants to make a deal, she can do that potentially, if it's offered, I guess. I mean, I don't know. I don't. It just seems like it ties prosecutors hands more at this point in certain cases. I would imagine this would be preferable, but shouldn't we be relying on prosecutorial discretion to do that? Maybe you're saying, well, prosecutors tend to overcharge or there's too much of a risk of that. And yeah, I get it. Applying this retroactively seems, you know, hopefully people are given a lot, a long time to deal with this, because again, I just think there can be a lot of nuances in this situation. I'm not sure if this older woman was an instigator or if she was just kind of a person who got sucked into something. I think my feeling about that particular case would largely be boiled down to is she the one planning this, or is she someone who's, you know, kind of along for the ride or how, how culpable is she without knowing a lot of the facts of that? I don't know. I can see why they did it. I can see why they didn't. I can also see why a lot of people are uncomfortable with felony murder as a whole because of stuff like this. Personally, if you're not smart enough to figure this out and make a deal, if you're less culpable, then I guess I don't know what to tell you. You know, I, I, I don't, I don't really have a lot of sympathy for people who are involved in stuff like this. And I think sounds like a lot of them may get let out or will be let out, and it's like, I don't know. Sure, they'll contribute a lot to society going forward. I'm a bit jaded about this. I think it's an important tool for prosecutors to have. So that would be my concern, is that they're hamstrung a bit. But at the same time, I could see there being some prosecutors who are using it in a way that's really over the top and really, you know, just really hard. Like, you know, everyone's getting charged with murder. Even if you're, like, remotely connected to a, you know, random incident, that that's not a good use of felony murder. So I guess if this protects people's rights in that sense, I can understand. I just. What do you think? It just seems a little, I don't know.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Certainly I'm like everybody else. I've looked at some instances of felony murder where people have received punishment that I feel is unfair. And I've looked at other cases where I've looked at cases of felony murder, and it is a charge which was the only way for there to be justice. So what I'll be curious about is it feels like, there is the potential need for some reform in the charge and how it's used. So I'll be interested in keeping an eye on Minnesota and seeing how this plays out. Does it end up working out well? If so, maybe other people should do things like this in their states if it doesn't work out. Well, maybe not.

[Anya Cain]

That's a really, that's well said, you know, and, and one thing I did notice is the language you read. I don't know if this is actually reflected in, in the law or in the rule or whatnot, but it did sound like there might be some flexibility because, like, how do you define, you know, deeply involved? Right? Like, what does that mean? Yeah, I don't want to see prosecutors lose what I feel is an important tool. And I also do feel like felony murder charges do secure justice in a lot of cases. Like, they really do. Like, I, you know, I. Culpability sometimes can go around for a while. And, and I think discouraging people from participating in inherently dangerous felonies that could result in death and in some cases do result in death and innocent people dying is, is a very good thing, you know, and, and having accountability when that does happen is a good thing, you know. You know, if I, if I think I'm gonna just skate on, you know, some robbery charge or whatever when someone dies, I, I'm, I, I might feel a little more confident being the getaway driver, you know, or, you know, I, I, I don't know. So I, but at the same time, I do, I can see where this could get abused. So we'll, we'll watch what's happening in Minnesota, see if that works out, see if there's controversy, see if it's. No, this has actually been pretty fine. Like, everyone's just kind of, you know, happy with it. I'll be very curious. But, yeah, we've got our eyes on you, Minnesota. We're watching with bated breath. So I think we're going to Missouri now.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Is that the next stop of the cane train? See, this is what I'm talking about.

[Anya Cain]

You know what? I haven't had my caffeine. I don't know why you're so hyper. Have you had caffeine?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I always have. The first thing I do when I get up in the morning, the first. Well, not literally the first thing, but pretty early on, within minutes of getting up, I have an ice cold bottle of Coca Cola.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, you're such a health nut, aren't you?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I am. Look at the results. I'm here. I'M full of life. You're. I don't know how you'd classify yourself over there, Kevin.

[Anya Cain]

I think if you went off Coca Cola, you would go through, like, extreme withdrawals. At this point. It concerns me. Sometimes we'd have to go to the hospital. They'd be like, what's. What. What. What's happening? Uh, Coca Cola withdrawals. So this is a case we actually did cover on the murder sheet in the past. And thank you so much to the wonderful listener who kind of has kept us apprised of this posting, some of this, some of these links, and these screenshots in our Facebook group. It's the case of Brendan T. Yeager. I think I'm saying that right. Of Baldwin, Missouri. And this is a man who did something that I think a lot of women, maybe, maybe men, too, but certainly women will recognize as something that's, like, deeply troubling. And I think, judging from the comments in our Facebook group about this situation, I think a lot of people were surprised it was taken so seriously, but gratified that it was taken so seriously because you could see a situation like this where it's not, and people get hurt because things escalate. So this Yeager guy, he was charged with looks like three counts, three counts of harassment that on April 11, 20, 2025, April 24, 2025, and April 27, 2025, all in the county of St. Louis in Missouri, that he was harassing different women. So, quote, the defendant, without good cause, engaged in an act with the purpose to cause emotional distress to Blank by following Blank and causing Blank to fear her for her safety and such acted caused Blank to suffer emotional distress, end quote. So what was reported in the news media was that this guy was running around and basically, like, chasing women in parks, like, following them to their houses, running them down. Because, you know, for some people who are either, like, I don't know if there's. There's some indications of mental illness here. So I'm not saying this in a way that is meant to malign people with mental illness. Plenty of people with mental illness keep their illness in check with, you know, various tools and are working hard to do that. And I commend them because that is difficult work and necessary work, but they're not making it everyone else's problem by, like, stalking women in a park, you know, so it's not to say that mental illness is to blame here or that we should look at people with mental illness as possibly dangerous. I'm just saying in this specific case, and we'll get into this later. There's some indications of possible mental illness, but again, it's. It's really. I. I guess I'm just like, it's not an excuse, like, get your life together. You know, everyone. You know, everyone's got stuff going on, and if you can't handle it, then I don't think you should be out. Because women deserve to be allowed to be in public without being terrified for their lives. I'm in a park and a guy is chasing me. I am scared for my life because I'm like, this isn't a normal. This isn't normal. This isn't a guy cat calling a woman from a car and driving off. Okay, that's, you know, no one likes that, but this is like threatening to your life. Someone's chasing you. So I actually got some of the. The complaint, the file complaint. And this is from the Clayton Police Department. Brian Tyson. Sorry if I'm saying his name wrong. And he talked about how the first victim was followed in Shaw park, was being followed by this white male subject on April 11th. And like, they basically, like, like he seemed to be following someone else and then started following her. And, you know, the. Another lady then kind of came up and was like, hey, walk with me. And. But like, this guy just won't back off. She even yelled at him, back off. And he, he was just continuing to follow her. So she actually ran towards the Clayton Police Department when she saw, which is exactly what you should do. So, I mean, commending her for being safe. April 24, another woman, she's walking her baby in a stroller in Shaw Park. She was followed an arm's length. Think about how close that is. An arm's length by this guy. For 20 minutes with her baby. She had noise canceling earbuds in, but then she felt him behind her and just. He's blankly staring at her. She calls her mom on FaceTime to just, you know, like, hey, dude, someone's watching. Essentially trying to kind of get him to back off, but he wouldn't. She was terrified for herself and her baby. She confronted him and then hurried towards her apartment building. And then he kept following her. And. Yeah, so she, she kind of. He actually tried to follow her inside of the apartment building, and the only way he backed off was when she ran to another guy, another man in the lobby and asked for help. And then the last incident, April 27, 2025, again, Shaw Park. He's, you know, she. He's in front of her in the beginning but he turns and is staring at her. So she walks past him, and then he's following her very close. She could feel his breath on her neck. It's that he's that close. She was terrified. Um, she saw a group of people, runs towards them, and then at that point, he runs away. So, again, this is horrible. I'm so sorry that this happened to these women. Um, so what's going on in this case? Because we reported last time that this was happening. So he was arrested, and then there was. You know, bond was requested. And let's see. Looks like there was. There was a preliminary hearing scheduled, and that was. There was, like, a cancellation of. Of the hearing and a trial on June 4, 2025. Seems like there's, like, almost two different cases kind of unfolding here for some reason on the system. But the thing about the mental situation was. Yeah, so, like. So there was a public grand jury indictment, and on June 12, 2025, there was an order for a mental examination for Jaeger. So they go to the Department of Mental Health. He's gonna. They're gonna conduct a mental examination of him. And, you know, what the examination should include is detail these. I'm quoting from this filing, quote, detailed filings. An opinion as to whether defendant has mental disease or defect. An opinion based on reasonable degree of medical or psychological certainty as to whether defendant, as a result of mental disease or defect, lacks capacity to understand the proceedings against her or to assist in her own defense. A recommendation as to whether defendant should be held in custody in a suitable hospital facility for treatment pending determination by the court of mental fitness to proceed. A recommendation as to whether defendant, if found by the court to be mentally fit to proceed, should be detained in such hospital facility pending further proceedings. And so we're getting into the sort of intersection between mental illnesses, mental health, and the legal system. And so, Kevin, this can get complicated because we know that if someone is not meant. So there's a couple of different levels here. There's not guilty by reason of insanity, which is saying, I have no ability to know right from wrong because of my mental illness. And therefore, if I stab someone, I legitimately think I'm killing a dragon. I don't think it's a person. If it's. I think it's an evil dragon that's going to kill people. So I think I'm doing the right thing by killing it, but it's really a person. So that's insane. And if I. I can have schizophrenia, I can have a mental illness, I can have anxiety or depression or whatever. And if I kill somebody and then hide the body, I'm gonna have a really hard time with that insanity defense because it's like, well, if you thought it was a dragon, why wouldn't you tell people about it, about this great thing you did? Why are you hiding the body? That makes you look not insane, that looks you like you're tr, you know something is wrong and you're trying to get away with it. So that's one facet. The other is competence to stand trial. And that is referring to essentially, can I assist with my own defense? Am I in a position where I can assist my attorneys in defending me, or am I just kind of not holding it together in that Sense? So on June 27, there was an arraignment scheduled and this is the order from Judge Ellen Rabado that was handed down on June 30th. Quote, order. The court has received information that the defendant is in need of inpatient treatment and that the probate division has ordered him to be committed to a secure facility for a 96 hour commitment. The court is in agreement with the probate division and orders that the defendant be taken to a secure facility for his 96 hour commitment. The judge notes that this release is temporary and upon the conclusion of 96 hour commitment or other discharge from a secure facility, the defendant shall be returned to the custody of the Department of Justice Services immediately. So ordered Judge Ellen Rabado. So that seems to be the last thing that I saw at least. And you know, I guess we will see. You know, the one case, one, one of the case numbers has no longer pending charges. This has been left, you know, in this new case that mentions the mental, you know, sort of situation that has been kind of taken over as the new one. And there's, there's multiple charges. So, yeah, I don't know, we'll see what happens. I think if this guy is so mentally ill and not treating it and is just following women around and terrifying them with their babies and as they try to go about their business, then he should be locked up until he's treated to be able to not do that anymore. Like, I don't think that's anyone else's problem. I don't think other, I don't think women's quality of life in Shaw park should have to go down because this guy can't, I don't know, take whatever medication he needs to take.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Exactly. Well said.

[Anya Cain]

You know, I, I, I, I'm, I, I have sympathy with people who are doing stuff like this because, because of a mental illness that maybe if you didn't have a mental illness, it wouldn't be happening. But at the end of the day, it's not, that's not the fault of these women and they shouldn't be punished because of it. And it's punishing to have an adult male stalking you, especially when you have a baby. So I, yeah, I think like his, his rights should not out strip their rights. And it, maybe it's not a mental illness. Maybe it'll be found that it's not and that he's just doing this because he's an utter creep, in which case he should go to jail. I'm all for finding solutions that are not incarceration for, or at least not traditional incarceration, not jail or not prison for people who are doing bad things because they are mentally ill, because they cannot help being mentally ill. It's not, if that's the case here, I'm not saying it is, but if that's the case here, that's not his fault that he has that. It may be his fault that he's not treating it, but let's say, let's say it's just a complicated situation or whatever. I still think that that person should not be in society if they cannot treat themselves, if they cannot do the things they need to do to be healthy, where they're not lapsing into something like this. Because again, it's not anyone else's problem. I think it's all of our problems as a society and we should take care of people and we should be dedicating money and resources to this. So in that way it's all of our problems. But it's not the problem of the woman walking in the park trying to listen to some music, you know, to just have to be able to for, you know, deal with this nonsense. So that's the Jaeger case.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Let's move on to Pennsylvania. My source for this is wpxi.com Excuse me again. So I don't want to get ahead of myself here too much, but yesterday, Anya, you and I had an interview with a cold case detective.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, it was a really good one.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I'm not sure when we're actually going to be releasing that. It probably won't be for at least a couple of weeks. But that interview really affected both of us. And one thing he said in that interview, and I'm paraphrasing, is that these days there are so many instances where we see little stories about murders being resolved from 10, 20, 30, 40, even 50 years ago that we've all become a little numb to it. We just kind of say, oh, and move on. While the fact remains that these resolutions of these cases really means a great deal to all of the people involved. And so with that in mind, I decided today to choose one of those stories. And I've certainly been guilty of. I don't think we cover a lot of these stories on the channel Cheat Sheet, and they all are very, very important stories that are worth attention. This one comes out of Hopewell Township, Pennsylvania, and all the way back in 1974, a young woman named Annette Rose to cars was murdered. And her family and investigators had no. They weren't able to get answers until fairly recently. And I should say that Ms. Takara was only 23 years old.

[Audible Advertiser]

O.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So just an awful, awful event recently. They took another look at it, and there was some DNA evidence which they were able to trace via forensic genealogy. This was some semen that was on the inside of her jacket. And after doing this testing, they were able to come up with a family tree that had four names on it. And one of the names on it was someone named Walton Sims, who had actually been looked at in the case back in 1974. And he was regarded then as a suspect. And certainly the fact that there was his DNA left at the scene certainly lends credence to that. Furthermore, Sim's brother had come in for a polygraph test, and he failed one question. And the question he failed was, do you know who was responsible for Annette's murder?

[Anya Cain]

Are you kidding me? Wow.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So the perpetrator, Mr. Walton Sims, he is no longer living, but if he was living, he would have been facing charges at this point. And so answers have been found. Beaver County District Attorney Nate Bible said, it's worth every penny to bring closure to this family. They have been waiting over 50 years for these answers, and now they have them.

[Anya Cain]

You need to get answers. I think that's, like, so important, and I think I'm so grateful that they put in the resources and did because, like, this doesn't happen just like in a bubble. Right? Like, I think that's. Sometimes I have. I forget that. And we cover a true crime podcast. But you think like, ah, yeah, just run the DNA. No, you need. You need a detective, you need an investigation team, and you need, you know, whatever champion.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You need a lot of cooperation, too. I'm just going to read here the last line of this article. Quote, Beaver County Detectives Bureau emphasized the collaboration with the following organization is what helped Close this case. The Hopeware Township Police Department, State police, including Trooper John Toner, Pennsylvania State Police, Bureau of Forensic Science, Serology and DNA Sections, Innovative Forensic Investigations, othram, Beaver County Crime Solvers, Pennsylvania Crime Stoppers, and Pennsylvania Criminal Intelligence Centers. That's a lot of agencies and a lot of people who had to work to bring this case to a close.

[Anya Cain]

That's exactly right. And I think, you know, there can be a sense of, like, well, you know, like, we don't. Like, this is a lot of time and effort, but it's, it's worth it. It gives people answers, it gives the community answers. It gives the people who love this person answers. Answers are not closure. I've heard many victims families say again and again, they don't feel like closure exists. You're never going to be made whole again after you lose somebody in a violent crime. It's just not. That's not how it works. You know, you're not gonna be like, ah, okay, I'm, I'm fine now. It's like. But answers are something. Answers are something. And I would say, you know, in, in this situation, it's wonderful to see. I would love to see people. You know, this is where I think all of our voices really do matter, right? I think this is in true crime, where we can make a really positive change in the world and where we could actually use advocacy and again, our voices to influence things at every opportunity. Where you can let authorities know that you care about cold cases and you want to see money and resources dedicated towards those. You want to see cold case teams being assembled. You want to see money allotted for DNA. You want to see genetic, investigative, genetic genealogy employed, people hired for that and skills honed. We want to see this even if the case is more obscure, even if the case is not a national story. We want to see that. We want to see Jane and John does be DNA tested to identify them. We want to see progress. And that when that progress is made, we celebrate it, we sell it, we celebrate it not because it's a happy story or a good thing, but we celebrate answers. So if we can do that as a community, I think we can actually make a really. And that that could mean writing to the powers that be in a. In a respectful manner, just saying, hey, this is something that's important to me as a citizen, that that means joining groups that are advocating for this. That means lending your voice. That means pushing podcasters and journalists to cover some of these things. The more we do in that respect, the better. I mean, that's a wonderful use of true crime, in my opinion.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And this interview we did with this guy, it's really. You're gonna like him.

[Anya Cain]

I'm really proud of it. I feel like. I feel like we didn't have to do anything. We just, like, showed up and it was like, wow. Sometimes you have interviews like that where you're like, we prepared a lot. And we did. In this case, we prepared a lot. But I felt like it was all him and our other guests. So I'm excited for you all to listen to that. And it's going to be in a few weeks.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, probably.

[Anya Cain]

Who knows? With our schedule, who knows? But it'll be. It'll be interesting. But, yeah, cold cases remain a passion of ours because I think that is one area where we can all. Can all do a lot.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You know, Anya, one reason why our schedule is so complicated is because we have a book coming out and we need to promote it.

[Anya Cain]

Do we?

[Kevin Greenlee]

What is. What is this book I speak of?

[Anya Cain]

Oh, man.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Oh, sorry, it bores you.

[Anya Cain]

I have not had caffeine. It is Shadow of the Bridge. It is our book on the Delphi murders case. This is the heinous murder of Liberty German and Abigail Williams, two Delphi teenagers who were abducted and murdered in Delphi, Indiana, in 2017. And this account is a very in depth look at the case and what happened and all the people investigating it and just, you know, what went down. And we were very proud to have gotten the opportunity to write this, and we're really hopeful that you find it helpful. I think it's going to be really important for people understanding the story of what happened to them because it's been so much misinformation, frankly. And this has been, you know, heavily researched. This is the culmination of years of our work, so we're thrilled that it's coming out August 26th. You can pre order it. You can. If you're abroad, I've heard some people say that you can kind of go to your local bookstore and ask them to order it. It's in. It's evolved. It's on Amazon in some cases, abroad as well. But in the United States, you can kind of. I mean, it should be where, wherever you could buy your books.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Typically, we're also going to CrimeCon and we have some other appearances and stuff scheduled. I believe we will be sharing information about those very soon.

[Anya Cain]

And I will say this, you know, with. With CrimeCon. If you go there, I'm gonna pull up our little code, make sure I get this Right. But if, if you go to Crimecon and you're sort of like on the fence right now and you're like, yeah, I'm gonna do it. Get this discount, please. Like, save some money. Go and do Murder sheet. That's the code. Murder sheet. You're gonna get 10% off your standard badge. So save some money. And you're putting our name in there so they don't regret inviting us. I will also say that we have in our Facebook group a little link that you can go to. And we're offering this to everyone who pre ordered. Everyone. If you pre ordered an ebook, that's fine. If you pre ordered this or that, it's. I'm talking about all pre orders. We intend to basically sign a little book plate sticker and send it to you. So there's a forum in our Facebook group, Murder Sheet discussion group, where you can fill that out. If you have trouble with that, send us an email. Murdersheetmail.com we'll, we'll hook you up. Don't worry about it. But that's just a little bonus to say thank you. Because I, I cannot, I guess I can't really verbalize how grateful I am to everyone who's pre ordered and how grateful I am to everyone who's supported us and just been there for us throughout this process. Delphi has been a difficult case to report on and we really couldn't do it without you. So this is just a small token of our gratitude for everyone who's sort of excited about the book and is pre ordering and is like letting their friends know. And so I guess that's what it is. So just Facebook group.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And there's also T shirts.

[Anya Cain]

Yes, but that's. Yes, but the. This is free. The pre order thing is free.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Tell the good folks about the T shirt.

[Anya Cain]

Okay, so we have two kind of ways to get T shirts. One is our traditional murdersheetshop.com. those are t shirts that we actually have in stock in our house. And we'll send you Mr. But we also, we wanted to expand into different sizes and different options. So there's also the murder sheet dot dash dot com. And you can, you can kind of check those out. They've got. It's more inclusive sizing. These are. But they're still shirts that, you know, have our logo on them. And there's a couple other fun ones that the team at Dash RE sort of designed. One makes me look ridiculous like a serial thief. And there's a mug. So that's fun. So we have the best of both worlds. We have the ones that are sort of the traditional shirts, but then we have ones that are a little bit more all over the place. And, you know, we're kind of dwindling in stock for the ones we have. So we wanted to switch to something different, be more inclusive and have some more inclusive options.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You know, Anya, I'm no expert on Baywatch, the 1980s series.

[Anya Cain]

Okay, where the heck is that?

[Kevin Greenlee]

But I do remember that at one point they did a spin off called, like Baywatch Night, where it's like this. Some of the same people, but we see them in like a different flavor. I think one of them becomes a detective. It is like solving crimes and stuff. And so I'm wondering, is this episode. Is this episode that we just did, like the pilot for Murder Sheet Mornings with an uncaffeinated. Anya.

[Anya Cain]

Okay, what about an unca. Well, I guess you are caffeinated, but yeah, I'm fine. I'm not a morning person. I would argue you're more of a morning person than I am, but you're also a bit of a night man.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I'm everyman. Morning, night, afternoon. You just tap me on the shoulder, you send me into the game.

[Anya Cain]

Put me in coach. That's what you're saying? Yeah. I don't know. Did I sound that different?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Murder Sheet Mornings.

[Anya Cain]

Just because I didn't get all excited about the cane train to your specifications.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Oh, it was such a disgrace. Get on the cane train.

[Anya Cain]

Maybe. Maybe I'll throw you off the cane train. Maybe that's gonna happen.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You think there's going to be like a death defying struggle between the two of us? Like an outt take from Mission Impossible where you're like trying to throw me off the train.

[Anya Cain]

Yes.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So this is what Uncaffeinated Anya is like. She threatens the life of her husband. So it's a completely different flavor that doesn't exist.

[Anya Cain]

What did I say the other day? What did I say? So one of the stations I really like to listen to in the car is Smokey Soul Town.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes.

[Anya Cain]

Right. That's one of my favorite stations because they play the soul. The soul and the Motown that I love. And I love soul and mo Town Motown. I can't even talk. But also, but I think Smokey Robinson was recently accused of rape. So that's kind of unfortunate. And I am aware of that. So I don't know. That's troubling. But the thing is, when we were watching, we were. I was, you know, I was playing my tunes the Other day, and the OJs come on and they're playing Love Train. And so I told Kevin, I said, this kid, we could. We could rip this song off and, you know, put the different lyrics in and it would be the Cane Train song. He said, that's great.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Only you said it in an afternoon. So you said it. It wasn't like, yeah, Kevin, we can rip this off and use it as. It was like, gosh, Kevin, this is great. You had more life.

[Anya Cain]

Kevin's the kind of guy. Or like, Like, I'll be. I'll be up in the morning and I'll be like, again, I'm. I take a while to get going. I'm. I'm not a morning person. And I joked in the beginning of our marriage that Kevin, because he was more hyper in the morning, he'd be like, asking me, like, let me ask you these riddles. 3. Like, immediately when I'm waking up and I have no idea what's going on, I'd just be like, he's just talking to me like I'm a human. Like, we're having, like, these.

[D]

Like, he's having these metaphysical discussions.

[Anya Cain]

He's trying to start with me, like, first thing. And I'm just like, I need a while to, like, I need. I need a minute. I need a minute to, like, rev up here, because I am not. I'm not understanding what you say.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Let's go get you some coffee. Yeah, maybe no more Murder Sheet Mornings.

[Anya Cain]

Murder Sheep mornings. Can you imagine me as like a morning anchor? How bad that would be anyway? I don't know. I guess it was like a parade with the puppies.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Just hit the button.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, I will. Whatever.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We're done.

[Anya Cain]

Coffee time.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email [e-mail] if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[Anya Cain]

If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com murdersheet.

[D]

If you want to tip us a.

[Anya Cain]

Bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www. Buymeacoffee.com murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder sheet and who you can find on the [e-mail].

[D]

If you're looking to talk with other listeners about a case we've covered, you.

[Anya Cain]

Can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages.

[D]

Thanks again for listening. So we want to shout out one of our wonderful sponsors right now, and that sponsor is Happy Mammoth. This is a wonderful natural wellness brand. We've been using it and it's been terrific. They're a great solution if you feel like you might be dealing with some hormone disruptors. I mean, that kind of happens to everyone. It's in the air, it's in the food, it's in lots of different products.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So it's really reduced your cravings.

[D]

Yeah, for me, it's. I mean, I get cranin nuts about my cravings. Sometimes I will, you know, suddenly really want Macintosh apples, which aren't even in, and various other things. We all know I've been stealing a lot of cereal recently, or allegedly, I should say. And so to kind of help beat that, I've been using their Hormone Harmony supplement. It's just a supplement. You take it a couple of times, you know, couple doses. And I feel like it's boosted my gut health, to be honest. It's also something that women who are in perimenopause or menopause, they can use it and it's going to reduce your hot flashes. You're gonna have more energy, get to sleep better. So it's really good for women of all ages. But for me, the gut health element of it has been really special. So if you're interested for a limited time, you can get 15% off your entire first order@happy mammoth.com, just use the code msheet at checkout. That's happy mammoth.com and use the code msheet for 15% off today. We're obsessed with our quince pieces. Is that fair to say?

[Kevin Greenlee]

That's fair to say.

[D]

What is quince?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Quince is a company. It lets you get really high quality clothing for very affordable prices.

[D]

They do that because they basically cut out the middleman. You're just getting.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Cut them right out.

[D]

Yeah, they're getting it from the artisans. They're giving it to you. It's wonderful. It's going to be 50 to 80% less than those of their competitors. And you're just going to get some wonderful things. We recently went shopping to get some summer styles. We'd previously gotten some winter styles, but we wanted to update. So we went on quints and we both got something.

[Anya Cain]

Let's talk about what we got, I.

[D]

Got this wonderful a hundred percent European linen dress. It's a button front dress and it's in blue chambry stripe.

[Anya Cain]

I love this dress.

[D]

I'm picky about dresses because, like, I feel like I'm have a weird shaped body and sometimes they cut me off in a weird way. This one just fits like a dream. I love the way it fits. It is very much a classic sort of style. So I'm not worried about it going out of style in like two minutes and then I'm looking foolish. It just looks like something I can wear for years and years. I know I'm going to be wearing this dress a lot this summer.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I got a great shirt. I can't paint word pictures like you do, but I'm very happy with the shirt. I've gotten compliments on the shirt. It's a comfortable shirt.

[D]

For anyone who is interested in learning more about the products that we purchased, he got a hundred percent European linen utility shirt in martini olive. So I think it looks really cute. I think that you look very cute in it. So I love it.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And keep watching our Facebook page because we will probably, if I convince her, take a picture of Anya wearing her dress and her beret.

[D]

Oh, I got a beret too because Kevin insists on me buying new hats. So I got a little blue beret. And yeah, I, I just really. Quince is one of those brands. I just love working with them because it's just stuff that I love to kind of come back to and keep buying because I love what they're doing, I love how ethical they are and I know that they're going to get me quality pieces fast. And with their wonderful return policy, you can try on different things. Make sure the sizing is right for you. And it's just a great deal for murder sheet listeners. So give your summer closet an upgrade with quints. Go to quince.commsheet for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E.commsheet to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.commsheet.