The Cheat Sheet: Barks and Banks

Summary

Murder Sheet: The Cheat Sheet – Barks and Banks

Date: May 15, 2026
Hosts: Áine Cain & Kevin Greenlee

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Episode Overview

This Cheat Sheet edition of Murder Sheet takes listeners on a tragic, thought-provoking tour through current criminal cases in Florida, Hawaii, New Mexico, and North Carolina. Áine and Kevin blend listener-brought cases, journalistic depth, and their signature witty banter as they discuss:

• Child sexual abuse by a Trump-pardoned January 6 rioter in Florida
• Bail decisions involving teen murder defendants who reoffend in Hawaii
• A long-delay self-defense investigation involving a fatal neighbor confrontation in New Mexico
• A devastating fatal plane crash followed by an estate theft in North Carolina

The hosts maintain their candid, deeply analytical tone while also injecting humor and camaraderie.

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Key Discussion Points & Notable Quotes

1. Florida: Child Sexual Abuse by Trump-Pardoned January 6 Rioter

• Case Background
  • Case of Andrew Paul Johnson, convicted in March 2026 of multiple child molestation and exposure charges.
  • Johnson had previously received a presidential pardon from Donald Trump for participating in the January 6 Capitol riot.
  • “This guy was charged with sexual battery of a victim under 12…lewd and lascivious exhibition…unlawful use of a two-way communication device and giving harmful material to a minor.” – Áine Cain [09:10]
• How Crimes Unfolded
  • Johnson met the mother of his male victim at a political rally; she invited him to stay at her house.
  • He abused the woman’s son (age 11) multiple times, threatened the victim with promises of “millions in restitution from the government,” and started abusing a 12-year-old girl as well.
  • Abused victims both in person and through online platforms like Roblox and Discord.
  • "He would get on Discord, the messaging platform, he would send this boy lewd sexual messages." – Áine Cain [17:49]
• Legal Outcome & Societal Implications
  • Johnson sentenced to life imprisonment. Hosts commend Florida’s approach to sentencing.
  • Discussion on the challenge of rehabilitating child sex offenders.
  • “To me, like, people don’t, I think it’s very difficult for people like that to change and to not be doing that anymore.” – Áine Cain [21:57]
• Reflections
  • The hosts reflect on the importance of parental vigilance and the difficulty for victim families.
  • “Predators…use whatever sympathy of, oh, I’m a January 6th guy…all these manipulative tactics, and you have to just, you know…wonder: why does this person want to spend so much time with my child?” – Áine Cain [23:59]

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2. Hawaii: Teen Murder Defendants Released, Then Reoffend

• Two Teen Cases Highlighted
  • Both teens released on supervised or bail conditions; both reoffended violently soon after.
  • One (Shay Dan Stiles McEnroe Kaluly) was found with a gun outside a nightclub; another (Branston Medeiros) cut off his ankle monitor, went on the run, and allegedly tried to hire a hitman.
  • “Why on earth were these judges choosing to let people out and release them after they’ve been charged with murders?” – Kevin Greenlee [27:26]
• Legal and Social Analysis
  • Judges cited youth, family supervision, and concerns about solitary confinement as reasons for release.
  • Áine critiques society’s tendency to view young men as less culpable for violent crime:
    • “I think we also have to recognize the numbers…teenage boys are significantly more violent and crazy than a lot of…what are we talking about?” [28:08]
  • Kevin explains confidentiality in bail and risk assessment decisions.
• Public Perception
  • Áine underscores how stories like these undermine public trust in the legal system.
    • “I think stories like this kind of don’t really engender the public’s...trust in the system if they feel like…you’re just going to let these guys run rampant.” [34:27]
• Reporting Praise
  • Special mention of the Honolulu Civil Beat and reporter Madeline Valera for thorough, balanced local journalism.
  • “You would be relaxed as tropical Anya. It’s just…how great this journalism organization is.” – Kevin Greenlee [26:12]

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3. New Mexico: Barking Dog Dispute Turns Deadly

• Incident Details
  • 2022: Ongoing dispute between neighbors over a barking dog ends with defendant (the dog owner) shooting and killing Kallan LaFleur.
  • Disagreement over whether LaFleur was reversing (escaping) or driving toward the shooter when shot.
  • Ongoing, protracted investigation; no decision yet on prosecution.
  • “If you have absolutely crystal clear evidence of the movements of that vehicle, that’s going to be a very tough case to bring.” – Kevin Greenlee [44:15]
• Reflections on Justice
  • Áine asserts prosecutors shouldn’t bring cases they aren’t confident they can win:
    • “That’s prosecutorial misconduct in many cases, right?” [44:43]
  • Both hosts reflect on the pain for victims’ families waiting without answers, and stress the need for better victim advocacy.
  • “Being more informative and…helping them not be re-traumatized by this whole thing…is I think, a good thing and something I would like to see.” – Áine Cain [51:13]
• Societal Observations
  • Both stress that neighborhood disputes should not escalate to violence.
    • “If you feel threatened…call the police. What are we doing here?” – Áine Cain [51:38]

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4. North Carolina: NASCAR Family’s Tragedy and Aftermath

• Tragic Airplane Crash
  • Former NASCAR driver Greg Biffle, his wife, and children died in a crash of their privately owned Cessna jet, December 2025.
  • Crash possibly linked to a pilot qualification issue and mechanical failure.
  • “They went apparently like 11 miles and then turned back to the airport…they ultimately hit a light structure near the Runway. They crashed and burned up around 10:15 to 10:20.” – Áine Cain [59:00]
• Shockingly Brazen Fraud
  • Following the crash and family’s death, a friend allegedly broke into the Biffle home and committed financial fraud, stealing cash, property, and memorabilia; also hacked email and bank accounts to steal from the estate.
  • “Somebody or some people have been capitalizing off of Greg Biffles and the whole Biffle family’s death in order to steal money from their home and bank accounts.” – Áine Cain [68:20]
  • Investigation involves the Secret Service.
• Hosts’ Reflections
  • Áine highlights the betrayal of such crimes by friends: “That level of betrayal, I just like vultures swooping in.” [67:45]
  • Both reflect on broader themes of financial predation and the tragedy of compounding loss.

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Noteworthy Banter & Tone Highlights

• Throughout the episode, Áine and Kevin’s playful dynamic lightens grim subject matter. Kevin needles Áine for her allegedly “tropical” mood, while she swats back, “There’s no tropical Anya…That’s some weird stereotype you’re bringing into this.” [04:33]
• Áine often delivers passionate advocacy for victims and sharp criticism of the justice system—“Put these people away for 40 years, we don’t need them.” [22:43]
• Both share anecdotes and trivia (Áine educates on “maroon” communities and North Carolina’s Great Dismal Swamp) [56:13–57:22], showcasing their intellectual curiosity.
• They close with playful stories about their own lives, their dog’s birthday, and poking fun at each other’s “sassy” or “blarney”-filled personalities, giving the episode a conversational warmth.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Florida – Andrew Johnson child abuse/J6 links: [06:39]–[24:00]
• Hawaii – Released teens reoffend: [25:35]–[38:13]
• New Mexico – Barking dog shooting: [40:51]–[53:20]
• North Carolina – Biffle crash + estate theft: [55:58]–[68:58]
• Closing banter and personal updates: [68:58]–end

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Memorable Quotes

“I think six, more than six years is warranted. I guess. Like my feeling about this is, you know, I don’t know, it’s like that. What do you think? Am I, am I, am I being too close minded in terms of child predators?”
— Áine Cain [21:53]

"I think it just kind of undermines people's, you know, belief in the system. And I think, I think if it's...a judge, a prosecutor or whatnot is soft on crime. People do not like that.”
— Áine Cain [34:27]

“Even if in your heart of hearts you think, well, I don’t think that self defense claim holds water unless you can disprove it. You can’t bring the case...You have to be able to prove every single element beyond a reasonable doubt.”
— Kevin Greenlee [47:36]

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Overall Takeaways

• The episode presents a cross-section of American crime and justice—from the most heinous child abuse to procedural debates about bail and the complexity of homicide prosecutions.
• While never shying from critique, Áine and Kevin emphasize empathy for victims/families and a demand for responsible, ethical judicial action.
• Listener participation is valued—several cases discussed stem from audience tips.

For listeners and true crime followers, “The Cheat Sheet: Barks and Banks” stands as a potent blend of hard-hitting reporting, ethical debate, and relatable, human storytelling.

Transcript

[Commercial Narrator]

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[Anya Cain]

I'm Anya, and in today's Cheat Sheet, we'll be traveling to Florida, Hawaii, New Mexico and North Carolina to check out different criminal cases.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Before the episode itself begins, a quick commercial announcement. For people who don't like commercial announcements, we do have a Patreon which you can join. You get early episodes, you get ad free episodes, and you get a couple of extra episodes where we just kind of sit there and talk to you about whatever you want us to talk about. You can ask us questions and we'll answer them and you can be a little bit silly. And also we have just recently started something similar on Apple. If you don't like Patreon, you can join via Apple. For I think the same amount of money, you could add free episodes and I think we'll probably put the extra episodes in there as well. And for both, I think we put some episodes out a little bit early sometimes.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, sometimes you be getting bombarded with episodes early. So it's a fun way. I mean, we love, love our subscribers and it makes it possible for us to do this work and we were very grateful to them and we enjoy getting to sort of hang out with them, answer their questions and it's a. It's kind of a fun community. So if that's something that you would find valuable, then we would definitely encourage you to either go on Patreon or Apple, whichever one you prefer. And you're going to be basically getting the same stuff on both. So don't do both. I. I don't want people to be, like, signing up for all of it and, like, you know, like, we're not trying to. We're not trying to do that, but

[Kevin Greenlee]

don't do both unless you want us to be really, really grateful. Now, with that said, let's. Shall we get to the episode?

[Anya Cain]

Let's do it. Content warning. This episode contains discussion of murder. It also contains discussion of the death of children as well as the molestation of children. So, on today's Cheat Sheet, I feel like we're going to some of the kind of warmer states in the Union. Florida, Hawaii, New Mexico, North Carolina.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I. I picked Hawaii. That was my case. I said, anya, it's time for us to go to the tropics.

[Anya Cain]

I think Hawaii is an amazing place and the people there are really nice. So I love Hawaii. I love all the states, of course,

[Kevin Greenlee]

but you're in a very mellow mood. So people have said, oh, we enjoy it when Anya gets upset. It sounds like this is just going to be a very rare.

[Anya Cain]

I hate this episode, people.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It's gonna be a very rare dose of mellow, relaxed, tropical on you.

[Anya Cain]

You're just saying what. You're so weird, first of all.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And you're just lying on the beach, letting the sun soak in.

[Anya Cain]

I can't be. I can't be at a crazy fever pitch of, you know, anger over injustice in the world and nonsense you have so far just for all. All the years I've known you, pretty, pretty much I'm just a constantly boiling tea kettle. That's not true. So I'm very chill. I'm very quiet in real life.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So, yeah, I'm a little unnerved by tropical Anya.

[Anya Cain]

No tropical Anya. What the.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You're so. You're so relaxed.

[Anya Cain]

You're making me unrelaxed. Is that that? Is that what you see? Your role in this?

[Kevin Greenlee]

So this is the Anya people know

[Anya Cain]

there's no tropical Anya. Also, people have problems in Hawaii, as we are going to talk about. That's why they're on the cheat sheet. Crime happens there. Not everyone's that. That's some weird stereotype you're bringing into this.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It's never good news for a state

[Anya Cain]

you don't want Your state on here, folks. It's not going well. It's crime is happening. I mean, well, listen, all the states have crime. Everyone's got some problems. So it doesn't mean anything bad for a state, but.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So it sounds like this week you're slamming Hawaii.

[Anya Cain]

No, I'm not.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You're very anti. Hawaii.

[Anya Cain]

I love Hawaii. I love Hawaii. The time we went there was amazing. It was a lovely, lovely state.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think if you truly loved Hawaii, you would welcome being known as Tropical Anya.

[Anya Cain]

But I'm just saying, you're, like, putting out some weird. You're just a weirdo. Just a weird guy.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Let's get going.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

[Anya Cain]

And this is the Murder Sheet.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases.

[Anya Cain]

We're the Murder Sheet and this is the cheat sheet. Barks and banks. Sam, What an odd way. It was so odd. No one can see this except for me, but when you came in to say, we're the murder Sheet, like, you turned your head all the way to the side. What was that?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I have very interesting mic technique.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, the patented Greenly technique serves me well. I guess so. So this is a case that was requested by a listener. Thank you to our listeners who request cases. We always appreciate getting some input on what you want to hear about. And I'm a sucker for picking the listener cases. Kevin goes his own way. Kevin marches to the beat of his own drummer. But I'm very influenced by all of you. So I. This is one of those cases that I think someone actually requested a while ago, and we've gotten to it. So thanks to that person. My. I have a number of different sources for this one because it involves a kind of a couple of different cases that I looked into. A bit npr, wavy, the press release from the Justice Department, a article from the Texas Tribune, some more npr, WBIR and NBC News, and also some case documents specifically out of Florida. So this is the Florida case. So let's go to this inventory for a search warrant. Some of the documents in this case were sealed because it involves sexual abuse against children. So this is, you know, there's a limited. This is limited in what it can include, but I will read it just so we can kind of get started and then talk about some of the wider implications of this case. So, quote, this is from this inventory and search document from the case filings, quote, received this search Warrant on the 9th day of January 2026, and executed to the same 9th day of January 2026S, by delivering a true copy thereof to Hernando county property evidence section, care of Andrew Johnson, white male, and by making a diligent search as herein directed, upon which I received one. This is a search warrant was to access Andrew's phone. The cell phone did shut off before being transported here and performed a security lock reset which causes most data to be inaccessible. And this is a document from Detective Brent Stentz Jr. And this was for an individual named Andrew Johnson. No, not the terrible president, but an individual in Florida. He was charged. I'm sorry, are the Andrew Johnson heads gonna come for me? Do you wanna do another swing around the circle? Come on, I'll, I'll go all day with you.

[Commercial Narrator]

Okay.

[Anya Cain]

Worst president. I can't stand that guy. Um, yeah, sorry. Anyways, I'm still mad about it happened in the 1800s, but I'm still mad. But this is a, this is a, this is a different Andrew Johnson altogether. And he is also bad, but in a, you know, in more of a criminal way than messing up reconstruction way. This guy was charged with sexual battery of a victim under 12, suspect over 18, and lewd and lascivious exhibition and molestation, unlawful use of a two way communication device and giving harmful material to a minor. So this guy is being accused of being a predator. Back in January of 2026. The figures in this case were for the defense, Devin Sharkey, which is a wonderful name for an attorney, I just want to say. That's great. And for the state it was W. William M. Gladstone, the state attorney of the fifth Judicial Circuit and Casey Jean Whitson, assistant state attorney. So this guy, Andrew Paul Johnson was in March, on Thursday, March 5, 2026, he was convicted of multiple state charges of child molestation and exposing himself to children. And because Florida, to Florida's credit, the Sunshine State. I. My understanding from just reading about cases there, and I could be wrong and someone correct me if I'm missing something here, but my sense is that they take a lot of these sexual crimes against children very seriously. Like I think they're. These often come with some pretty hefty sentences, as they should. So I tip the hat to Florida. Florida sentenced him, my understanding is to life in prison because of these. A jury found him guilty of these five criminal charges and he's going away for life. So again, tip the hat to Florida. I personally believe that sentences against people who sexually harm children should only be more stringent across the board across the country, I don't think we have any use for people like that out in society. And so what kind of caught, I think, the national news's attention on this one and this is, I think what maybe inspired the person to send it to us. And you know, kind of the reporting that they saw was that Johnson was not just any random guy doing horrible things. He had been pardoned by President Donald Trump for rioting at the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021. So we can talk about, you know, some of the kind of ins and outs of that whole situation and how it pertains to his sexual abusive children case. But of course, you know, to remind everyone with the, you know, the January 6th riot that it was an incident that injured like 140 police officers and, you know, caused chaos and was a very, you know, disturbing incident. On his first day in office for his second term, President Donald Trump pardoned the vast majority of the individuals who had been convicted over that. Over a thousand, I think it was like over 1200 perhaps. I think there were like a handful, like 14 who did not get pardons. And so that is, you know, Johnson was one of the people who participated in that. So this is, this is how that almost interacts with the case in Florida. So he had been charged by the time he met the woman who is the mother of the male victim of Johnson's. So he had been charged. They met at a political rally and she invited him to stay on her couch. She said that, well, he was a handyman and I wanted to help him out and I thought he maybe would fix stuff around the house. So she invited this guy to her house, he slept on the couch and let him stay in her home. Now this is a mother with two boys. So she has two sons. One evening, her 11, her then 11 year old son described, you know, watching a scary movie and falling asleep on the couch. Johnson is next to him and when he wakes up in the morning, he finds that Johnson is touching his genitals. So that is what he wakes up to. And then it happened again later that year. That time Johnson basically made him swear that he wouldn't tell his mother. So, so again, this is after the, the riot, but it's his, his case is kind of going through the process. He's out, he's not being incarcerated, you know, pending, pending those charges. So In April of 2024, Johnson goes back to Washington D.C. he pleads guilty. His, the charges, he pleads guilty are nonviolent charges. There were people who were you know, specifically accused and charged with violently beating police officers. And then there were others who were more on the trespassing side or property damage. So he was on the non violent category. And he was sentenced to a year in prison and a year of supervised release after that. So he pled guilty and received that sentence. So he was, he was subsequently pardoned. Right. And as a result of that, he started using that to tell the children that if they didn't tell. So he was initially abusing the boy. And, and then later on there's another victim. We could talk about that. But he's telling them, I'm gonna get millions of dollars in restitution money from the government, from the Trump administration because I was one of the January 6th convicts. And if you don't tell anybody I'm molesting you, I'll split that those millions with you. Like, unbelievable. So. And it's not just that he's telling them this. He's apparently reporters uncovered social media posts where he's talking all about how he's going to get money from the Trump administration. We stay busy with the podcast. So I like my wardrobe to stay comfortable, easy and intentional. Something that I could put on that feels great while also looking super put together when we're going out to court or to an interview.

[Kevin Greenlee]

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[Anya Cain]

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[Kevin Greenlee]

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[Anya Cain]

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[Kevin Greenlee]

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[Anya Cain]

So, you know, after he's pardoned, he goes back to this mother of these two boys and he starts regularly sexually abusing her son. And they, in addition to that, he, he's not just doing that in person, but this guy Johnson gets on the online gaming platform Roblox, which has been widely criticized for being seemingly a magnet for pedophiles. And he would go on there, he would get on Discord, the messaging platform, he would send this boy lewd sexual messages. And in addition, he then one day takes out the boy. And the boy, you know, has a best friend who is a 12 year old girl. He takes them to a day of fun. So they go play paintball, they go to a trampoline park and they go to a hotel swimming pool. And that is when he, he exposed himself to them. He made a bunch of explicit sexual comments to them. And he also began sexually abusing the girl victim. So an absolute horror, horror Show, July of 2025, the the boy's mother. And again, we're not naming them, the press is not naming them because it's a child sexual abuse victim. You know, these, you don't, you don't name people in that situation. She's beginning to feel like something's off about her son. So she actually confronts both of the children. She also does some digging on Discord and finds these disturbing messages from Johnson. So on they go to the police. On August 26, 2025, you know, basically law enforcement hunts this guy down in Tennessee and he is arrested. And then we come to the recent jury decision where he will be spending the rest of his life in prison. As you can imagine, this is something that, you know, gets politicized, right, where people are saying, shouldn't have let this guy out. Or you know, this, this, people like this don't deserve pardons. And the fact that he was basically saying, I'm gonna get money you know, it's certainly become a bit of a, you know, a political football to a certain extent. This is a guy's not the only person who's one of those January sixers who essentially has gone on to do crimes against children. Like there are other cases of this, there's other cases where they had actually previously done it prior to 2021 as well. But in one instance it's this guy, Andrew Quentin, take, I might be saying his name wrong. He was charged with online sexual solicitation of a minor. Now in this case, he had been talking to somebody he thought was a 15 year old girl but was actually a police officer. So they were able to kind of bust him for that. And there was a guy, Kyle Travis Colton, he was indicted for receiving child sex abuse materials and I believe that was in California. He downloaded numerous images and videos of children being sexually assaulted between July of 2022 and December of 2023. He only got six years. To me, like people don't, I think it's very difficult for people like that to change and to not be doing that anymore. I, I, you know, I'm, that may be controversial. I'm sure some people will be able to say, well, there's, you know, there's things that sex offenders can do and perhaps maybe in some instances. But honestly, I just, I feel like the risk is too great to children. I think six, more than six years is warranted. I guess. Like my feeling about this is, you know, I don't know, it's like that. What do you think? Am I, am I, am I being too close minded in terms of child predators?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I don't think so. It's a very serious offense. It needs to be taken extraordinarily seriously. We often, who would have thought all

[Anya Cain]

these child molesters would also be like lawless rioters as well?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I mean, we often speak about the efforts in Miami County, Indiana, when prosecutors Courtney Alwine and Jen Kieffer were able to get a very long sentence for Kagan Klein. Yeah, which surprised a lot of people because people were saying, oh, here be able to, he'll probably be out in a year or something. And no, these prosecutors worked really, really hard to put him away for decades.

[Commercial Narrator 2]

Yeah.

[Anya Cain]

And I always commend them. I want people in Indiana to look at that as a model. Put these people away for 40 years, we don't need them. They're, they're just a detriment to society. They're detriment to children, they're predators. And you know, I, I guess in A perfect world. I would love for everyone to be rehabilitated and, and work on that. And. And I just. I don't think we live in a perfect world, do I? Really. Do I really trust that enough resources would be devoted to that being effective? No. So, you know, goodbye. On a personal level, too, it's like, I don't know. I think that's a very hard thing to forgive or get past. I just think that is such an cruel and evil thing to do to a child. So I commend Florida for taking that seriously and having. Having sentencing that reflects what I feel is the seriousness of something like this, abusing these. This child's trust, abusing the trust of these children and inflicting this upon them. And it just. I think it's a reminder for parents. You know, I think a lot of people would be like, why would you invite this guy over to your house? And I agree with that on some level, but at the same time, I mean, I'm sure this mother is suffering for the choices she made as far as how it.

[Commercial Narrator 2]

It.

[Anya Cain]

How it really hurt her child, ultimately her choice to let this person into their lives. I think at the same time, we, we can have some sympathy for her, but we can also look at this and say it's really important to be very, very careful with who you let around your children, because a lot of people are going to be doing things in a way to specifically try to earn your trust to have access to your child. And that's exactly what this guy did. That's what a predator does. You know, they. They use that playbook and they use whatever sympathy of, oh, I'm a January 6th guy, and, oh, I'm being abused by the government. I'm gonna get some money. It's all these manipulative tactics, and you have to just, you know, it sounds like they met at a political rally. She may have agreed with parts of that or agreed with him. And that's. And that's one thing. And she's entitled to her op, as are all of us. But at the same time, you gotta be wondering of, like, why does this person want to spend so much time with my child? Like, that's the most important thing. Not if you agree or if you like this person, you think they like you. It's like, what is. What are those interactions looking like? You know, I just think it's. It's horrible. I. My heart goes out to these two children and to the sibling and to the mom in fairness. And I, you know, I hope that they Feel like there's some measure of justice here. But, you know, it's just, it's sad that it happened at all. And I would, I would hope that, you know, yeah, this is, this is a new chapter for them.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I agree completely. Moving on to Hawaii. You know, one reason why people like yourself are more relaxed and more in a tropical mood when you're in Hawaii is they have incredible local journalism organization in Hawaii. I'm talking about the Honolulu Civil Beat. And I think if you had a journalism organization like this in your state, you would be relaxed as tropical Anya. It's just I can't say enough about how great this journalism organization is.

[Anya Cain]

Kevin's ridiculous statements about me aside, I completely agree. The Honolulu Civil Beat is top notch, quality journalism. And I really enjoy reading them. And I wish every state had something this robust.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes. And they are responsible for putting Anya in such a relaxed mood today. I saw her before we were doing the episode, just scrolling through their website, just saying, ah, that didn't happen. She is so relaxed. It is eerie. And so I like to spotlight some of their work sometimes. And they were indeed the source for the story I'm about to share, which is two young men, two teenagers, were in separate incidents, charged with murder, and then let out on bail, or the equivalent of bail or like ankle monitoring. And then they got involved in other violent episodes. I think one person cut off the ankle monitoring bracelet and then tried to hire a hitman to kill somebody.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, that's good.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And so the question is why? Why on earth were these judges choosing to let people out and release them after they've been charged with murders? One is Shay Dan Stiles McEnroe Kaluly. He was holding a gun on someone outside of a nightclub last month. And this is while he was on supervised release for a murder.

[Anya Cain]

Are you kidding me?

[Kevin Greenlee]

And they say, well, one of the reasons why they let him out was because his mother agreed to speak, sponsor him and keep an eye on him.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, his mother, who raised him.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah. Someone in this article says, well, it's great. It's wonderful when people have people who are willing to say, yes, I will supervise and keep an eye on him. But if they were really that good at supervising and keeping an eye on these people, they probably wouldn't have been involved in these violent incidents that led to the murder charges in the first place.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. If he'd been parented properly in the first place, he probably wouldn't be doing this. Also, I want to. I just, I saw this. Another thing that the article Cites was a reason was his age. I just want to be really clear about something. We can have sympathy as a society for young people who are making bad choices and engaging in violent activities. I think, I think a lot of people understandably are like, hey, their brains aren't quite formed yet. They're, they're a mess. Everyone remembers being an impulsive, wacky teenager. I think that's all a healthy and accurate and logical feeling. I think we also have to recognize the numbers. Young people, especially young men, even teenage young men, teenage boys are significantly more violent and crazy than a lot of, you know, than a lot of us want to acknowledge. Like, you have to weigh the public interest of keeping violent people in prison against this whole. Like, I feel bad for them because they're young. I mean, maybe I could, I could see some leniency in sentencing in certain occasions. But like, I just, I sometimes see people, oh, it's so outrageous. All these young people, their lives. It's like, who do you think is doing the crimes? Young men. Like, what are we talking about? It's so, I remember we watched, we're gonna talk about this at some point. We watched a John Oliver episode about felony murder and he was acting so outraged about this felony murder. Guys, it's just, it's going after these young guys. Who do you think is doing most of the violent crime? Like, it's not a, you know, I don't know, it just bothers me and I hate it when people are like, oh, I don't think this guy could have done it because he's so young. Young people are sociopaths. I mean, like, I'm kind of kidding, but like, have you ever met middle schoolers? Like they're, they're able to, I mean, I, I, I find young people the scariest kinds of criminals because those are the kinds of criminals that will just do anything because they're just, I don't know, they're just not quite, they're not adults yet. They're not quite formed.

[Kevin Greenlee]

One wrinkle about the age of one of the people in these cases is that he is 19. And there was a situation where if you turn 19, you can't be in a juvenile facility anymore. But if you're then put in an adult facility, you're going to be segregated, basically kept in solitary away from the adults. And so then that can be allegedly traumatizing to the 19 year old. And so that was cited as a reason. I want to mention this other case, which is Branston Medeiros. He was charged with murder at 16, he was released to his mother's home on an ankle monitor. He cut off that ankle monitor and then actually was on the loose for five weeks. And about the same time that they caught up with him, he had just tried to allegedly hire a hitman to kill some guy that he suspected of being romantically involved with his girlfriend. But he's not yet been charged for that. So this is just another instance of someone young getting a break you wouldn't expect someone to get. Because obviously, murder is an extraordinarily serious charge. It's just one of the most serious things you can be charged with. And typically, people charged with that offense aren't let out because it's seen as too much of a risk. Both of them might reoffend, as these people seem to have done, or they might try to flee. So in both these instances, the prosecutors said, don't do it, don't do it. And the defense attorneys, obviously, defense attorneys always advocate for their clients. And I'll also make the obvious point is that until. Until a matter is disposed of, either through a trial or through a plea, a person who's charged with a crime is presumed innocent. And I can imagine a lot of judges saying, I don't want this person who's a kid who's technically innocent to be in a place like prison where he might be made worse.

[Anya Cain]

He's an adult. He's 19.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah.

[Anya Cain]

I'm sorry, like what?

[Kevin Greenlee]

The other Branson Medeiros was 16. The other person.

[Anya Cain]

He's gonna go. He would go to the juvenile hall, right?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah.

[Anya Cain]

I mean, it just seems. I don't know. Like. I don't know why you would let either of these people out. I mean, did the judges give any further reasoning other than just feeling bad because they were young and their moms were gonna take care of them for the first time ever?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, it's hard. The judges have not made any public statements that I'm aware of. Obviously, judges in cases like this, to some extent base their decisions on confidential reports, like reports prepared by bail, the bail department, pretrial bail reports, risk assessments by the department of correction. I think there's a rehabilitation intake center. They prepare reports, and those reports contain a lot of personal details, and so they are kept confidential. So it's tough to really understand why these judges chose to let these young people out without having access to that confidential information, since both these people reoffended and did violent, harmful things, either by having a gun on someone at a nightclub or trying to hire a hitman. It's clear that it was a mistake to let them out, but it's hard to really understand why the judges made those choices.

[Anya Cain]

I'm personally often sympathetic to judges in cases like this because it's, you know, you might have someone who's out on bail for something that's more of a property crime, and then they go on doing something really violent and people are calling for the judge's head. And it's like, in those instances, I don't. I don't agree with maybe letting them out, but I also understand why the judge did it. And I feel like maybe the backlash, like hindsight is 20 20, but I also believe, you know, there is a responsibility to public safety here. And I suppose I just. When it's something as serious as murder, as you said, when it's something violent, then it just. I don't really understand what these judges are thinking. I think, I think sometimes Americans have an over. I mean, crime is down. Like, there's no arguing against that. Crime rates are down. We're like, we're a safer country in many ways than we have been possibly ever. And that doesn't mean that crime goes away, though. It's still a problem. And frankly, crime is such an emotional and personal issue that you can say, I can be an egghead and say, crime's down, crime's down, crime's down. But, like, there's a perception of, like, it's not because of social media and because of how we consume information now, because it's. We have a more globalized information economy versus just something being local. But I also think stories like this kind of don't really engender the public's. Don't really get the public's trust in the system if they feel like, if they're seeing cases like this are like, okay, you're just going to like, let these guys go run rampant, you know, that doesn't seem right. I think it just kind of undermines people's, you know, belief in the system. And I think, I think if it's. When I talk to just like random people or people in our lives or whatever, of a variety of different political leanings and locations and where they live. One thing that sets people off is the perception that a judge, a prosecutor or whatnot is soft on crime. People do not like that. In my, in my experience, like, very few, like, you know, you have people who, like, might be on the more prison abolition track or whatever, but, like, most people that I talk to are just like, they get this incent, like, this makes people so mad. Is that what you've seen?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Absolutely.

[Anya Cain]

I understand that because it's like you're kind of just like, are you kidding me? You know, like, this is ridiculous. And it's like, okay, because they like, oh, because it's gonna make them sad. Like, like, what are we doing? But it's more complicated than that. I think it's more important. I think it's important to remember it's more complicated than that. But I think it is also okay to say, you know, is an elected official serving our interests if they're continuously letting people like this out to run. To run rampant and, you know, having those conversations, too. I think it's a nuanced conversation, but I think, you know, I commend the Honolulu Civil beat for reporting on it. What, what was the. With their reporting? I'm curious. Did they kind of. Did they seem to have an editorial opinion? Kind of. It seems like by covering this, they're certainly indicating, like, hey, this is something we should probably be attending, be paying attention to.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, I think that. And let's give credit, and I apologize if I'm mispronouncing her name. This article was written by Maddo Madeline Valera. It's a very thorough article. She talked to everybody. She talked to prosecutors. She talked to public defenders. She talked to retired judges. She raises all of the relevant arguments, per con. I think we can agree that the seriousness of murder is such that we should be very reluctant to let out people who have been charged with that. Even if you have them on ankle monitors, because one of these cases proves it's possible to remove an ankle monitor and just be in the wind.

[Anya Cain]

I completely agree. I think that's a pretty bare minimum, frankly. I'm of the opinion increasingly that while bail reform for property crimes was very, very much in vogue in recent years, and while I think it was extremely well intentioned and, you know, coming from a very good place when you have like, basically kind of recurring criminals doing most of the crime and possibly escalating at different points, I think there's an argument that that went too far and that it's causing more problems and that it's not the best way to handle things. So, I mean, I would go further, but I think. But I think. I think that. But I think it's certainly. I mean, certainly excellent reporting. I'm curious, like, just to get the other side of it with this, with the public defender side, with the defense side with this, are they maybe stating anything of, like, yes, this is a bad outcome in these situation. But here's the counterpoint.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah. For instance, I think I mentioned you are innocent until proven guilty. Naturally, yes, it can be traumatizing for a young person to be incarcerated. This person who cut off his ankle monitor and went missing for five weeks, he says he did it because some rival gang members showed up at his house and they were members of a gang when he. They were members of the same gang that his alleged victim belonged to. And so he was scared.

[Anya Cain]

And so maybe he should have been in juvenile detention then, like, that would have taken care of that problem.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I would imagine in a situation like this where you are worried, oh no, my rival gang is going to come and kill me. Contact the court, let the court know what's going on. And if you really have a good legitimate reason where it is necessary to do something, the court can understand. Just when you. When you cut off your ankle monitor and then have no contact with the court for five weeks, you. You pretty much deserve what you get.

[Anya Cain]

And what. He hired a hitman because he, like, yeah, come on. I mean, I don't know. I understand where the defense attorney. And I certainly don't blame them for this because I feel like, you know, they gotta argue for their client. I mean, that's gonna. What you're gonna try to do, obviously. And I'm sure in many cases nothing like this happens, you know, but it's just. I think when it's so serious, it just needs to be taken more seriously by judges.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And then I wanted to move on to New Mexico. And my source for this is the WKR Q E. And this is the. Again, I apologize if I mispronounced it the kalin or callan lafleur case. This goes back to January of 2022. Mr. Lafleur had a neighbor that had a barking dog that was disturbing him. And there was a long history of confrontations between him and the neighbor over this barking dog. There would be occasions, we are told, where he would go over and confront the guy about the dog and be yelling at him. And then the guy he's confronting yells back and says, get out of here. And eventually Mr. Lafleur leaves. But in January of 2022, Mr. Lafleur goes over there in a car, a vehicle, and instead of yelling, he just lays on the horn. Just this big blast from the horn. And the dog owner comes out and he has a gun. And it is unclear what happened next. The dog owner claims that Mr. Lafleur started driving towards him and so that it was necessary to shoot him. In self defense. Mr. LaFleur's family says no. If he was moving in the vehicle, he was going in reverse and trying to get away. But we do know that the dog earner fired the weapon and Mr. LaFleur ended up dead. And as I say, this happened in 2022. There has not yet been a legal determination if this was self defense or murder. The investigation is ongoing. The prosecutor says that the state police have not even turned over all of the evidence of phones and extractions and things of that nature so they can make a decision. The family is very upset about this delay. The police say, well, you know, people get reassigned or get promoted, and then when someone else comes on the case, they just kind of start all over. So I'm sure that's part of it. I think another part of it is, frankly, just when I look at the basic facts, it's ambiguous of this case, it is ambiguous. There is a witness who says, no, he was going in reverse. But that witness says they don't like the dog owner or are afraid of the dog owner. So I don't know if they're saying that out of personal animosity or if it's what they actually saw, but that could be something that could be problematic on the stand. If your whole case boils down to whether or not this man was going in reverse or going forward, unless you have absolutely crystal clear evidence of the movements of that vehicle, that's going to be a very tough case to bring.

[Anya Cain]

Nor should it be a case that you bring. Like, that's not something I know people like. People get mad. They're like, oh, no, Just, you know, roll the dice. No, like you should not. A prosecutor should not be bringing a case that they are not confident that they will win. That's wrong. That's prosecutorial misconduct in many cases, right?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes.

[Anya Cain]

So I'm very sympathetic to the LaFleur family. To me, it sounds like this madhouse of barking dogs and people grabbing guns. They, they. That. That trips my alarms as well as far as who was in the wrong here. But that's just the vibe I'm getting. I could be wrong. Right? Like, that's not enough to have a case you. Like, you would need a video showing what happened. Like a sur. Even blurry surveillance kind of showing directionally what happened. Like, you know, just even the. Did the car move forward, backward, what happened? Maybe like data from the car. If it's the kind of car that would have that, you know, you need. A lot of people feel like every case can be Quote, unquote solved. And like, I don't, I just don't believe that. I think there's a lot of cases where it's ambiguous enough that there's just never gonna be charges and people have to accept that. I would never tell a victim's family to accept that. Cause I just imagine the hurt and pain of that is just so immense that. But I think the general public has to accept that.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah.

[Anya Cain]

And you don't want wrongful prosecution.

[Kevin Greenlee]

This reminded me of something and I'm going to be vague on the details.

[Anya Cain]

Oh my gosh. I know what you're going to say.

[Kevin Greenlee]

What?

[Anya Cain]

I'm not going to. I mean, I'll tell you if I was right.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Okay. So a few years ago, Anya and I went to a neighborhood meeting in downtown Indianapolis.

[Anya Cain]

I was wrong. I thought. You're going to say something else entirely. Go ahead.

[Kevin Greenlee]

What did you think I was going to say?

[Anya Cain]

I thought you were going to compare it to a case where there was a lot of public pressure to bring charges and then it didn't even get to, it was dismissed before the, you know.

[Kevin Greenlee]

No.

[Anya Cain]

Mid trial.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah. We went to this victim's, this meeting in downtown Indianapolis, community meeting, where there were homicide detectives, prosecutors talking with members of the community who had been impacted by, by violent crime. And there was this one man there whose mother. I'm going to be vague on the details. His mother had been killed in a car and we know who was in the car with his mother. But that person had at least a reasonably plausible story for self defense. And even if in your heart of hearts you think, well, I don't think that self defense claim holds water unless you can disprove it. You can't bring the case. You can't just bring a case based on your vibes. You have to have evidence. You have to be able to prove every single element beyond a reasonable doubt. And so this man is left with the knowledge that his mother's killer is likely to get away. And he was very upset and very sad and my heart went out to him. But in these matters, if the evidence isn't there, even if you think you know what happened, you can't bring the charges.

[Anya Cain]

I guess like the thing reading about this case with Mr. LaFleur, that does frustrate me is it feels like his family has been having a hard time even getting a meeting with the New Mexico State Police. They've, you know, they've gotten the run around. They're not really being treated with what I would consider respect and courtesy and on the one hand, I understand the police side. I think you're, you know, you're bombarded with cases. Many of these detectives I imagine are just drowning. People get transferred, then someone else has to take that case and whatever. There's like a lot going on and then you know, and in this case it's like maybe an ambiguous case and it's like we may not ever be able to make this and because the facts may not even support it. But like, so I understand then going to something that's more active or something that's more like, okay, we're going to actually get something done here. The sun is calling. Are you ready? From beach days to soccer plays. Blue Lizard Australian Sunscreen Helps protect your family skin so you can focus on the fun, not the sun. With no fragrances, parabens or phthalates, our mineral sunscreen is designed for your sensitive skin and trusted by dermatologists, pediatricians and parents alike. Be fearless in the sun with Blue Lizard Australian sunscreen. Shop now on Amazon.com this year, experience

[Kevin Greenlee]

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[Anya Cain]

That being said though, I mean these people have still lost somebody and I think they deserve more responsiveness. I would love to see there being more of a kind of a. I think a system is needed, a systemic change as far as. Because again I see both sides. But if, if basically police are oftentimes too busy and bombarded, there needs to be some kind of like victim advocacy side of things or something or some kind of designated aspect of the job of, of policing that is dealing with victims families in a respectful way. I'm not saying that that means like just do whatever they say or like okay, yeah, be calling, you know, like doing five calls a day. It's like there just has to be some kind of like process that everyone is aware of. Okay, this is how it's going to work. We're going to do X number of you know, meetings or we're going to answer these questions or whatever and have it be codified in some way. I would love to see that. I think it would probably be a comfort to people who are already in a lot of pain and I Again, like, I think a lot of victims, families or people who died in these kind of circumstances, they're not going to be understanding when they're told, hey, there's no way we can bring charges here. But I think it would help at least if they. It might help. It might help if they knew why or they knew what the limitations were. I know there, there's disputes about like cell phone and dash cam footage and the dash cam the police are saying didn't capture the relevant moment and the family's skeptical. I think that kind of skepticism that could in some cases, I'm not saying that's the case here, but in some cases we see that veer into actual conspiracy theorizing. The police are hiding stuff and it gets kind of crazy. But I think oftentimes that comes from just the frustration of like, hey, you're not doing anything and I'm not even hearing back from you and we're being treated like an afterthought and my son's case is just being forgotten. So I think more needs to be done. I think reform needs to happen in that, in that avenue. And again, like, I, I see both sides of it, but ultimately I feel like our society, and by dint of that are policing infrastructure. You know, being kinder to people who've gone through this is not, not just kinder, being more informative and being. Helping them not be re traumatized by this whole thing as to the extent possible is. Is I think, a good thing and something I would like to see. It's very sad. I mean, again, these people with the dogs and all that, and a guy coming out with a gun. Why are you coming out with a gun? Like, stay inside. Like, come on. If you feel threatened by this guy outside, then call the police. Like, you know, what are we doing here? But it sounds really sketchy to me. And like, I agree with his family for being like, I think this guy was murdered. Because, like, personally, like, just reading this, I'm like, But I also, without something more concrete, it just seems like it'd

[Kevin Greenlee]

be very difficult just to play. I'm not taking sides here, but just as a devil's advocate, the other side of it is you have a dog and you have a guy who regularly comes over to your house and yells at you and just screams from your front lawn until you yell at him to leave. He does this often and then he seems to escalate it because now he's just coming up and he's just honking and just leaves his hand on the horn. I could see where that would seem to be threatening.

[Anya Cain]

I totally think that's threatening, by the way. I'm not saying he acted well here. I. But I think coming into any situation with a gun, you're making a choice to bring that gun in. Like, that is like, he can't honk you to death. You know, I mean, like, and you can stay indoors. And I would feel threatened. I would probably call the police of, like, this guy is coming and harassing us. But I think bringing a gun into the situation is. Is wild. Um, because again, like, now if this guy's trying to kick down my door, that's a different. That's a different story. That's a different. Like, if he's coming at me in my family and I have, like, that. That's a different story. It's just more of, like, going out to confront somebody with a gun is a whole choice that you're making and rarely a good choice. Um, it also just sounds like this is a classic. Like, a lot of people have to deal with bad neighbors. Like, but, like, I think a lot of things, like, you know, you gotta either let it go or you gotta. You gotta move or you gotta have a conversation with people. Sometimes people are not gonna have the conversation with you. And then. Then the other two options remain. But, like, you. You can't. You can't let that get so crazy, you know, like. Like, to the point where this kind of confrontation doesn't do anything for anybody. Like, it's not gonna fix your problem if you. If your neighbors are so inconsiderate that they're letting their dog bark constantly and it's causing problems for everybody in the community. I don't think they're gonna be intimidated by you honking at them. Yeah, like, they're already, like, kind of shown that they're not really pro social and they're not really, like, interested in helping anyone else out. So, like, I just. You gotta kind of just write. Write people off at some point. Sometimes I feel like the people who get really frustrated about everything are like the optimists in society. Like, they think this shouldn't be this way. And it's like, no, but it is. You know, it's just sad that it cost a man his life. It's obviously very sad. It sounds like he had a newborn baby, too. So I imagine, like, him being kind of sleep deprived. Maybe that would make anyone more on. More on edge.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It's a very sad situation. But, Anya, why don't you take us to our final case of the Program.

[Anya Cain]

Absolutely. Will do.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I. I appreciate the very calm and restrained, laid back way you're. You're responding to everything this week. Even that will do. It's just like a. I feel like I'm in the islands. This cool breeze going over me as I watch the. The waves. So with that in mind, take us home.

[Anya Cain]

That's where you always are. So, uh, my case is out of North Carolina, the great state home of the Great Dismal Swamp, as we all know. I've been there. It's pretty cool.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You always like to insert some trivia about the states.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, well, the Great Dismal Swamp is really neat because it was a refuge for enslaved people who escaped. Uh, the term is often called maroons. They're like. That was the community. So they would actually hide out in the swamp after escaping the maroons. Maroons, that's. That's the historical term that's like that. That's like basically a maroon. So in the Americas and I think in other areas when, you know, the Africans who were taken and kidnapped and forced into slavery by Europeans would escape, they were referred to as maroons. And it's. I believe it derives from a Spanish word. And they would, you know, they would, like, hide in different environments and oftentimes kind of remote or inhospitable ones. And the Great Dismal Swamp was one such place where they were, you know, going, you know, fleeing. Fleeing slavery and hiding out there. So it's an interesting history.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And you. You were telling me.

[Anya Cain]

Beautiful location.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You were telling me that they call it. The nickname is the Old North State.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, I didn't know the nickname, to be honest, all I know. But I've been to North Carolina a couple times. One time was to go to the Great Dismal Swamp. So let's. Let's. That forms the real bulk of my experiences in North Carolina. But very friendly people.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Great comic book convention there. Great comic book in the old north state.

[Anya Cain]

They scared. They scared you off because they were. They were too friendly for your Midwestern stoicism values. Where you were. You were running. They're all smiling and trying to help you, and you're like, get away from me.

[Kevin Greenlee]

That's not what happened.

[Anya Cain]

Hoosiers are the hostile Hoosier.

[Kevin Greenlee]

They have, like, fish camps where you can go and they'll say, here's fish, Kevin, and you can take it and everybody's happy.

[Anya Cain]

You can take it and everybody's happy. That's North Carolina for you. Well, unfortunately, a very sad thing happened in North Carolina recently. And Then a terrible thing happened after that. So this is one of those cases where fortunately there is no murder, although there is death, but there is crime. And that was a weird way to say that. I don't, I don't know. We're gonna go forward. My sources for this one are a sort of preliminary report from the National Transportation Safety Board kind of summary on their website, a really in depth article from the Charlotte observer, which is great. And I think that's kind of a big, a big part of what we know right now. So, so this centers around a gentleman named Gregory Jack Biffle. He was in December of 2025. His birthday was December 23, 1969. So he was 55 about to turn 56 on December 18, 2025. And he was a pretty, you know, well known guy in his circle. He was a professional stock car racing driver and he was from 2002 to 2022 he was driving in the NASCAR Cup Series. And you know, honestly to me NASCAR is not something I really know anything about, but I know, you know, a lot of people derive a lot of enjoyment from it. It's definitely a, you know, a popular thing. So I think, you know, for those people he's like one of those, one of those successful people in that field, I imagine. And you know, he also had a family. So he was married to a woman named Christina. He was married, he had two children, 14 year year old daughter Emma, 5 year old son Ryder. And you know, they just, you know, you see pictures of them seem like a happy, beautiful family. And unfortunately tragedy did strike on December 18, 2025. This is a horrible, horrible non crime but still like a horrible situation, like worst nightmare type things. They were the family, the Biffle family. The entire family went in a Cessna 550 Citation 2 business jet which was owned by an LLC called GB Aviation Leasing and that was owned by Biffle. And at this point, you know, he's retired. But they're, they're, they're heading from North Carolina to Florida and they're heading out from the Statesville Airport around 10:06am so this is Statesville, North Carolina. That's where they're heading out from. The weather conditions, low clouds, light rain, they go up and they're not alone. So it's the Biffle family. It is a man named Craig Wadsworth and then the pilot is Dennis Dutton and his son Jack Dutton are all on board. Now here's something that was maybe, you know, something that I don't really know much about flying either. Flying in nascar, not something I know much about, but I guess there are certain like ratings for pilots. And with this kind of aircraft it ha. It had to have like two pilots who were a certain type of rating. And in this case the pilot, Dennis Dutton, was the only one with that rating. And that Jack Dutton, his son seemed to be acting as the first officer, but he did not have that rating, although he and Greg Biffle were pilots. They were rated like they had. They had the qualifications be pilots, just not that specific rating. So pretty quickly it became clear that there was something wrong with the plane. They went apparently like 11 miles and then turned back to the airport. And what the National Transportation Safety Board investigation has found so far is that there was possibly a malfunctioning thrust reverser indicator. There was statements from the cockpit about the, the left engine not starting. And you know, I, I don't really know much about air accidents, but there was a. They lost airspeed and they ultimately hit a light structure near the Runway. They crashed and burned up around 10:15 to 10:20 and they were all killed. And it's, it's horrible. I mean to die in a plane wreck like that is just a very scary thing. A whole family wiped out. It's just awful. And I think, you know, after, after the death of the Biffles and these other gentlemen, there was certainly an outpouring of grief and I'm sure people who are fans of nascar, you know, it was very upsetting and people were, you know, talking about it. It made the national news because he is a well known figure in that circle and you know, everyone's very upset. But now it's like adding insult to injury because now there's been some crimes done in the wake of Biffles death. And, and, and it's just bizarre what's going on. Yeah, it's bizarre. And, and thank you to the. By the way, I should say I, A listener recommended my other case and then another listener recommended this one. So thank you, that person, for reaching out and recommending it. We always really appreciate hearing from you guys. Means a lot to us. And so what, what we're seeing so far, it's, it's a little bit vague because I've seen some speculation, I've seen some things, maybe if I do more of a deep dive, I'll find more. But I didn't really see a lot of outlets reporting a name. But what investigators are saying now is that somebody or some people have been capitalizing off of Greg Biffles and the whole Biffles family's death in order to steal money from their home and bank accounts. Like this family dies horribly in a horrible accident, and then people are sweeping in to steal from their estate. And let's think about this for a minute. What the police are saying is that the people who are doing this were their friends. Like, that level of betrayal, I just like vultures swooping in. So, because this, I think involves some financial misdeeds, this is actually involving the United States Secret Service, many people think of them as like the president's bodyguards. And that's certainly true. But they also have the, you know, financial component that they also do. What, what is being reported right now is that the Biffles had a home in Mooresville, North Carolina, and, you know, they died on December 18th, and that there was some kind of January 7th break in on at their home on Lake Norman in Mooresville. And there was. That was supposed to. Basically, this is what, this is what the Charlotte observer quotes from an official document that they obtained. Quote, that breaking quote, was a cover up to steal evidence of a more elaborate plan against the Biffle family and their wealth, not only of money, but property as well. End quote. So somebody went into their home that night, spent a ton of time in there, sold three $30,000, $30,000, two Glock handguns and a bunch of NASCAR memorabilia. So they also, around this time, I think, I mean, I believe that they believe this is connected, but there was a takeover of the financial accounts, email accounts, and subsequent larceny of money owned by Biffle and his wife, Christina Grue. So, yeah, now this is interesting, but my understanding is that there has not been an arrest yet. The investigators, according to these documents cited, supposedly believe that the person on surveillance video at the house breaking in matched that of a woman they saw at a celebration of Greg Biffle's life on December 16th. So I don't know, although I don't really know if that date is right, because celebration of life would come after someone's death and that's two days before. So I don't know, may just be a typo here. But yeah, this, this woman, would they know who the woman is? And they believe it's a friend of Christina Grossu. And apparently they picked up a pickup truck with a license plate reader of that belongs to the woman's husband near their home just before the break in. So, yeah, apparently there was also on Venmo, there were, I guess, like there was fraudulent activity, you know, connected to the email and banking accounts owned by the Biffles. The Day after the plane crash, there were addresses, email addresses switched around with accounts. There were phone numbers, passwords. Change. Suddenly fraudulent activity on Christina Grossu's Venmo account. There were. On December 29, there was a change to the account information that belonged to Greg Biffle at United Carolina Bank. A fraudulent check cashed at that bank, a branch of that bank in Columbia, South Carolina, from Greg Biffle's account. And then they tried to do three more checks at different branches. So, like, this does not appear to be some kind of confusion over, like, oh, well, they owed us this money or whatever. This seems to be like someone's trying to, like, pass off bad checks and, like, get access to all their. I mean, this is insane.

[Kevin Greenlee]

This is awful.

[Anya Cain]

I don't know how evil you could be to do this to your friends after. Like, you'd think you'd just be, like, reeling from your friends dying and being really upset about, like, oh, my gosh, this, like, young family is wiped out in just a tragic accident. And these people are just, like, grifting off of their. I mean, horrible. But again, we don't really. I mean, it's not clear to me who this is or what's going on. I. You know, I think I've seen some discussion of names and whatever, but I'm. I mean, I didn't see enough in the mainstream news that I feel comfortable saying anything. It's really troubling. But it. Unfortunately, you know, there are a lot of. We talk about, there are a lot of sexual predators out there. There's also a lot of financial predators. I mean, I think I saw, like, some posts on social media today and not today, recently, but it resonated with me. It was like, sometimes it feels like everyone and everything is trying to scam you. Everything's trying to get you to spend more money or overpay or trick you into signing something up. And, like, I feel that sometimes. But, you know, you trust your friends. You know, like, that's not a business. That's just, like, your friends hanging out with you. So it would be very sad if this turns out to be true and that friends were actually taking advantage of these folks or doing something against their interests and trying to get money from them.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I agree completely. So before we wrap up, how does it feel to do an episode of the Cheat Sheet without raising your blood pressure? Just being mellow, just relaxed. Is it different?

[Anya Cain]

I don't.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Tropical Anya, you're just smiling. You're not even saying anything.

[Anya Cain]

I don't know what to say to you.

[Kevin Greenlee]

See, angry Anya would be like yelling and cursing, but just tropical Anya just has a smile on her face.

[Anya Cain]

I don't know. For the whole human race, you're totally delusional. And, I don't know, I never know what weird stuff you're gonna say. I just want to tell the listener something. Whenever you guys post in our Facebook group or send us emails, they're like, oh, yes. Kevin said he threw his top hat in the air, and then it. Then he sailed away in a floating balloon. He has no idea what. He doesn't remember saying this. It's. You're like. You're like. You're, like, totally delusional when you get on the mic. And then I. Then I have to clean and pick up the pieces later because he'll be like, what did I say? Oh, I don't remember saying that. That's crazy. And that's where we're going here. And then you say, I'm sorry I said that.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think it's obvious that tropical Anya's been out in the heat too long, doesn't know what she's saying. That surprises. No one should mention, you want to Anya. We all know Anya has become a huge fan of college football now, and

[Anya Cain]

so have you, sir. Are you putting all the football responsibility on me?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Isn't it fair to say your fandom is much greater than mine?

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, it probably is, yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Much, much greater than mine.

[Anya Cain]

We're subverting gendered expectations here.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I feel that if I never mentioned football again, you'd still be talking about it just as much.

[Anya Cain]

I probably would.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And if you never mention it again, I'd never mention it again. And I'd probably be happier for it, but. Oh, my God.

[Anya Cain]

Ugh. You're the worst.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It's moved from college football to now. Over the weekend, we went to see an indoor football thing. We did see it in Fishers, Indiana.

[Anya Cain]

We did see it, and it was also mostly an excuse to hang out with our friends, which we love seeing them. So we were very happy to do it. But, yeah, it was interesting. It was actually fun.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Indoor football, it's different. It was Star wars night, but indoor football is similar to regular football, to my imperfect understanding, except that the players make much, much, much, much less and

[Anya Cain]

everything is smaller and. But you can see it better.

[Kevin Greenlee]

The game is, for lack of a better word, rigged. The rules are changed to encourage a lot of scoring. There you go.

[Anya Cain]

You cracked the code and.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, we went with some friends, and we have a mutual friend with them who actually has appeared on the Program. And they said, oh, yeah. This weekend we're taking Kevin and Anya to a football game. So Kevin and Anya going to a football game. What? But they're nerds.

[Anya Cain]

Are you sure they're not gonna get scared? The players are coming for them. Yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Somebody's gonna steal their lunch money.

[Anya Cain]

Someone's gonna shove them in.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, my gosh. This is how people think of. This is how we come across to people.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes.

[Anya Cain]

We're not like cool jocks. You know, I have everyone know I was the captain of my high school swim team. Varsity. Thank you. And now ignore the fact that I was the only senior who was able to really be able to swim. Well, doing it. You know, just because it's a default election doesn't mean. Doesn't. Doesn't take that away from me.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And you can't take that away from you. You were.

[Anya Cain]

You didn't do any sports. You were the. You were the champion. You were the best player of your little league. Right? Because the. What wasn't there some.

[Kevin Greenlee]

The heat has gotten her. Ladies, Shut up.

[Anya Cain]

I know what I'm talking about. You were, you were. Remember, there wasn't. Weren't coaches, like, looking at you because you had really good stats, but that was just because, like, the ball never came to you. And the minute it did, like, it was all the illusion was shattered.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah. For a while, I was the only member of my T ball team who didn't have any fielding errors because I was a left fielder.

[Anya Cain]

Wow. That guy's good.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Nobody ever hit the ball to left field.

[Anya Cain]

That guy's the best to ever do it. People were looking at you. Wow.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I was like, Roy Hobbs.

[Anya Cain]

Coaches were like, how do I get that guy on my team? He knows what he's doing

[Kevin Greenlee]

out in the heat. Well, I think Tropica Anya needs to go in, get some time in an air conditioned room. Well.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, doggies. Update. So our friends met Nick and Nora. So that was fun.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And Nick behaved inappropriately.

[Anya Cain]

Our dog's a sex pest. He wasn't humping anybody. But he was definitely being really weird. And I, I. What was it? The. But you know, here's the thing. He's a pup, you know, He's. He's just a little. He's just a little guy. He's. He's gonna turn. He'll be turning. I think this episode comes out with the 15th and he'll be turning 2 at the end of May. So he's almost 2.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So would he turn to a different time if the episode was released on a Different.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, my God.

[Commercial Narrator 2]

You.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Why do you have to mention the release?

[Anya Cain]

I wanted. I wanted to figure out, like. I wanted to be like, he's. I wanted to say, like, he's turning two in a couple days. But then I was like, I don't want to risk it. I'm not good at math, you know?

[Kevin Greenlee]

If this episode came out, you're alive. If this episode came out on May 17, I'd be 21. I want to know.

[Anya Cain]

I want to know what the people have to say about fucking sassy Kevin. Who's. I don't. You've been. You've been ramping up to this. If I'm salty on him a lot of the time, and yelling and getting pissed off, you're, like, acting like a little impish, you know, trickster over there, doing all these, like, what is going on? And do people like this? Are they exasperated? Are they seething with fury and gonna have a conversation with Kevin after this episode? No, I'm just kidding. But, no, it's just. Yeah, you're being very impish. You got a twinkle in your eye.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, it's the Irishman in me. But let's get in. Let's get into.

[Anya Cain]

You said to me recently, this was so embarrassing because it was so true, and I was so mad about it. You ever have someone who really knows you say something about you, and you're like, that's accurate, but how dare you? I was editing a episode with a really, really great guest who's very smart, and she. And you'll. I mean, you'll figure out who this is once the episode comes out. She made a joke about, you know, how we were both Irish and so we would never get off the call and we would just be talking forever. And I said, yeah, isn't that true, Kevin? And you said. You said, definitely true for me. What did you say? I had, like. I had, like, the. The something about blarney.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, you love the blarney.

[Anya Cain]

I love the blarney. Fuck you.

[Kevin Greenlee]

That's awful.

[Anya Cain]

But it's so true. I never stopped talking to people. Yeah, I'm, like, very shy, but I also never shut up. It's a terrible combination, because then afterwards, I'm like, what was I saying?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, we're supposed to talk to someone on the phone just as friends. And you said, kevin, if I get on that call, we'll be on the phone with them for hours.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, we gotta shut this down. We got stuff to do.

[Kevin Greenlee]

But let's get into the air conditioning. I'm worried about you. So let's say goodnight to the people.

[Anya Cain]

Are you worried? Are you really worried?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Let's say goodnight to the people. You've said a lot of crazy things.

[Commercial Narrator 2]

What did I say?

[Kevin Greenlee]

You said I'm too sassy. No, I'm.

[Anya Cain]

I'm. I'm asking the people what they think of Sassy Kevin. What they think of what I have to deal with every day of my fucking life.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Let's get into the air conditioning. Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email [e-mail] if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[Anya Cain]

If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com murdersheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www. Buymeacoffee.com murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the [e-mail] if you're looking to talk with

[Anya Cain]

other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.