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- [00:00]
A
Okay, I know it's kind of cliche, but I really, really love fall. I just do. Partly because I get to break out my fall wardrobe. And this year I know I'm going to be leaning on my favorite clothing brand, Quince. They're going to help me refresh my wardrobe, get some new pieces and help me feel a little bit more luxurious.
- [00:19]
B
Quints has good stuff that'll last and stay in style. Plus their pieces are half the cost of that of their competitors. This year we're looking to get more cool pieces and we'll keep you all posted on what exactly those are. Last year, of course, I got their suede bomber jacket. I love it and I'm looking forward to wearing it again. I think it's very warm and comfortable and Anya thinks I look great in it and she tells me her opinion is important.
- [00:47]
A
It is. It just frankly is. And I'm excited to look into getting some more Mongolian cashmere sweaters, maybe some new colors. We're going to mix it up and I'd like to add those to my Quince collection. They start at just $50, so it's a steal. All Quint's pieces are like half the cost of similar brands, so check them out today. Quince saves you money by cutting out the middlemen.
- [01:08]
B
Keep it classic and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from quince. Go to quince.com msheet for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com msheet to get free shipping and 365 day returns.
- [01:31]
C
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- [02:15]
A
Audible.Com wondery content warning this episode contains discussion of murder and violence, including domestic.
- [02:24]
B
Violence so we're back, but in a way, we weren't gone. But Anya and I have not recorded a cheat sheet in, like, a month. We recorded a few in advance because we knew we'd be very, very busy with all of the promotion for our book. And so we haven't actually done this for a month. So be patient, right?
- [02:45]
A
Be really patient. We're totally out of practice, and actually, we've got a lot of requests for different cases over time. So if your case didn't get covered in this episode, I'll probably throw it in there for the subsequent coming weeks. So just be patient with us. But if you, you know, if you submitted something, it's. It's probably in the wings.
- [03:06]
B
The wings of the train. The cane train. What kind of trampled under the wheels of the.
- [03:13]
A
No, it's not under the wheels. It's, it's a, it's just in the, it's in one of the cars of the train, I guess the storage car.
- [03:21]
B
So you have it all planned.
- [03:23]
A
It's like the express car that the train robbers would rob. You know, how they'd. Like there'd be, like, an express man and stuff like that. I know a little bit about train robberies, but not much.
- [03:33]
B
Well, I mean, you've been obsessed with trains for many a year.
- [03:36]
A
Would there be a cane train heist of all of my cereal that I'm transporting?
- [03:40]
B
So are you the engineer or the conductor? And what am I in this?
- [03:46]
A
I don't know.
- [03:47]
B
You're the trainer.
- [03:48]
A
Are you just, like, a fancy passenger.
- [03:50]
B
Just along for the ride while you do all the work? Is that how you see this? I don't know.
- [03:58]
A
I, I, I don't know all the, I mean, I don't. I guess I'm the engineer because I'm taking it along. So are you the conductor? You're kind of, like, yelling at people.
- [04:08]
B
I'm going around saying, ticket please.
- [04:10]
A
Yeah. Getting people on board. On board with this nonsense. What are we doing? Should we get into this? Let's talk about some very depressing cases. Now, my name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.
- [04:23]
B
And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.
- [04:26]
A
And this is the Murder Sheet.
- [04:27]
B
We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're the Murder Sheet.
- [04:35]
A
And this is the cheat sheet. Dogs and dials.
- [05:24]
B
But one thing since we've kind of been away for a while, is that there have been some high profile crimes that have occurred that we haven't had an Opportunity to discuss on the program.
- [05:37]
A
That's correct, yeah. Some disturbing high profile crimes and two that come to mind. That sort of the reason I think, I think about them together is because they're, you know, they happened pretty close together in time or at least they sort of became very widely spoken about on the Internet at the same time is perhaps better way of saying it, but also because we saw two people die. Like, I mean both. The footage of both of these killings became very widespread all over the Internet. And I saw both without looking it up, without trying to see it, it.
- [06:15]
B
Would show up in the algorithms of like your Twitter feed or things of.
- [06:19]
A
That nature like Facebook. People are posting about it and it's horrible. And I just, I wanted to take a moment to speak on these two cases briefly. We're not going to really get too much into them in terms of the facts and whatnot. But like, I don't know, I just wanted to talk about it because it just both. It's horrible.
- [06:37]
B
You want to say the names?
- [06:39]
A
Yeah. So the first one that occurred first, this was a murder that occurred on August 22, 2025 in Charlotte, North Carolina. And this occurred on the, the Lynx Blue line in that city, sort of a light rail line. And this was a young woman named Irina Zaruska. And she was 23, young woman from Ukraine and she had come to, you know, the United States to get away from the Russian invasion of Ukraine and sort of the, the war there. And she was just minding her own business on this light rail and this 34 year old man named Decarlos Brown Jr. Came up behind her and murdered her. Killed her by cutting her throat with a knife. And you know, we, we, we saw the footage of this and it's just, it's unimaginable, it's horrifying. And this is a person, this, this Brown Jr. Person, he, you know, he, he's just constantly getting arrested. Seemingly been diagnosed with schizophrenia and why he was out in society, it's just appalling. I mean this guy was obviously a danger to himself and ultimately others. And I think we have a broken society if someone like this is not being indefinitely put away.
- [08:16]
B
The other person who was murdered was of course Charlie Kirk. And I think when something like that happens, the first thing you need to say is murder is wrong. It's wrong to take another life. But in an instance like this, I think it's also important to say it because in this country we don't kill people just because we disagree with their views. And pretty obvious Points. But I thought it was worth saying.
- [08:50]
A
It'S evil to murder somebody. We've seen violence across ideology, across political spectrum, you know, across religions. And there's certain people who are. I don't know whether it's some form of like, sociopathy or if it's some form of. Of they've, you know, they get high on their own supply. About like, I need to take something into my own hands, but like, no one should be doing that. Don't kill people. This man was a father. And I mean, it's horrible. It's absolutely horrible.
- [09:20]
B
My mind, as it often does, goes back to Delphi. I remember Becky Patty, grandmother of Liberty German, talking about, now that the crime scene photos of the murdered girls are out there, they always have to worry about coming across it. And so my mind went to Mr. Kirk's children because the, the awful, bloody murder of their father was captured on video. And that's going to be out there and these children are going to run into it probably time and time again in their lives.
- [09:54]
A
And that's horrible.
- [09:55]
B
Makes me feel very sad for them.
- [09:57]
A
I agree. It's absolutely horrific. And I just again, like, see, like we're seeing someone die. I mean, it just. And you know, our wonderful moderator on our Facebook group, she was the one who told us about this happening. She was like, oh, did you see that? And she was like, don't, don't look up. You know, the footage is really awful. And we didn't. But it just. Some of these social media platforms are just so soul deadening and run by people who do not care about any sort of responsibility that they might have to the public. And this stuff just spreads. His kids shouldn't have to see that. But it's so widespread, thanks to social media that. I agree. I think they inevitably will. It's. It's horrible and there needs to be more done about this. We can talk and discuss and inform without having to inflict further harm on people who are already suffering. And I think the families in both of these cases, I imagine the idea that you can just go out and basically see a snuff film of these two people dying is just horrible.
- [11:09]
B
I think that about covers it. Should we move on to our regularly scheduled cases?
- [11:13]
A
Yeah. Do you want to go into North Dakota?
- [11:15]
B
Have you ever been to North Dakota?
- [11:16]
A
I never have. Have you?
- [11:18]
B
I have not, but I have family in North Dakota. It's. I used to watch the show Fargo.
- [11:27]
A
Oh, God. All the people in our. One listener in North Dakota is probably rolling their eyes right now.
- [11:34]
B
I'VE been near North Dakota. I'm just trying to. I feel like we should talk more about the states.
- [11:42]
A
Okay. But you feel like that's what the people want?
- [11:45]
B
Yeah. I mean, if you're listening to this, would you want to hear, oh, let's have some state trivia.
- [11:50]
A
Are you going to start doing the thing you were doing with the sports teams? Go all states.
- [11:54]
B
I mean, it's a good. I'm sure it's a fine state. I have some family there. There's a university there. Probably more than one.
- [12:01]
A
Yeah.
- [12:01]
B
Third educated people in North Dakota, I would imagine. So. My source for this was Valley News Live. I think it is interesting because one thing lawyers and judges like to do is argue about meanings because it's very easy to say, oh, here's what it says in the Constitution. It's not always easy to figure out what that actually means in the world today. One of the rights laid out in the Constitution, of course, is the Sixth Amendment. You have the right to face your accusers. You get to confront the witnesses who are testifying against you. So you're familiar with that, right, Anya?
- [12:50]
A
Yes.
- [12:51]
B
So very important, right? What does that mean in the modern world? Because there is a case where a man named Spencer Moen was found guilty of murdering his wife, Sonia. And some of the witnesses who testified against him were his children. And they were allowed to testify via Zoom because there was evidence suggesting it would be difficult, if not damaging, for these young children to actually be in a courtroom where their father was present. So does that mean he was denied his Sixth Amendment right to confront his accusers because they were not physically in the room with him and that the testimony was offered via Zoom? What do you think, Anya?
- [13:45]
A
I mean, listen, I'm not a. I'm not a educated attorney, just a simple country journalist, but with the whole point of that aspect of the law be that you can be cross examined, the goal is to more of ensure that people aren't just saying things and then, you know, you don't want a situation where the guy's children come in and say some accus accusatory things and then no one has the chance to say, well, is that really true? And this is an inconsistency and blah, blah, blah. So, like, to me, them being on Zoom versus in person is kind of not really the point and doesn't really seem like a violation of his rights. But again, I'd be. I would defer to what the attorneys say.
- [14:34]
B
Well, the attorneys are fighting about it in front of the North Dakota Supreme Court. It's interesting because obviously when the Constitution was written, things like Zoom were not even a glimmer in the eyes of the founding fathers. They didn't even imagine such things. And so certainly when they wrote it, they almost certainly were imagining that the accusers would be physically present with the defendant. But nowadays, with technology, that doesn't seem to be as crucial.
- [15:05]
A
Wow. It's really. This guy's just father of the year, right? I mean, he beats their mother to death in front of them and then leaves her to die in a bathtub and is now dragging them into, you know, this whole protracted legal mess. What a gem. Good lord.
- [15:21]
B
Yeah.
- [15:22]
A
I mean, at that point, wouldn't you just throw in the towel and say, you know, yeah, probably. Probably deserved sentence and let your kids move on? But, you know, I mean, it's an interesting argument from the attorneys. What's your opinion on it?
- [15:38]
B
I'm inclined to think that his right to confront his accusers was maintained because when you. When you talk to a person via Zoom, that doesn't really seem to be fundamentally different from being in the same room with him.
- [15:53]
A
Like, confront doesn't mean we need to have him run up and grab his kid by the neck. It's about an attorney being able to cross examine you. Right?
- [16:03]
B
Yeah.
- [16:03]
A
So it just seems my layperson view is, this seems kind of dumb, but at the same time, maybe there's an aspect of it that I'm not thinking of, that an attorney would say, no, no, here's actually one area where, you know, but generally it seems like, wow, the kids would be more confident on Zoom and have less of a traumatic experience. So that's bad. We wanted to break them down on the stand. We wanted to destroy the kids. Like, yikes. I mean, am I misreading that?
- [16:33]
B
So, yeah, it's very interesting. I'd be very curious to see how the North Dakota rules, and I'm sure other courts will be looking at it too, because I'm sure this is something that's going to come up again and again, because good defense attorneys, frankly, always try to find anything they can to appeal.
- [16:52]
A
You gotta be good at being creative about different issues that you can raise. And so I certainly don't fault the defense attorneys for trying their best to try to find ways of doing that. I do fault this guy, though, because what a dirtbag.
- [17:08]
B
The state said that the children could shut down and cry uncontrollably. Quote. There was also talk from some of the testimony about avoidance symptoms, which is a common aspect of trauma. The children could shut down, they could cry, they could avoid the questions entirely. And the court specifically concluded that it wasn't just the courtroom itself that would be traumatic for the children, but it was testifying specifically in front of their father. End quote.
- [17:33]
A
God.
- [17:34]
B
So that also raises issues of if it's okay in this case to have testimony via Zoom. Does that mean all witnesses can testify via Zoom? It just raises a lot of interesting questions.
- [17:47]
A
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- [18:10]
A
As true crime podcasters doing journalism on crime cases, we talk on the phone a lot. We're usually talking on the phone in our office with me pacing around endlessly and Kevin beckoning me to come back so he can talk too. Or we're in the car talking. Or sometimes one of us is rushing out of a restaurant whispering, hang on, give me a second. Into our phones. Because a source came through with something big. So that is to say, our wireless service is very important to us.
- [18:36]
B
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A
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- [19:25]
A
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- [19:37]
B
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A
Visit simplisafe.com msheet to claim 50% off a new system. That's simplisafe.com msheet there's no safe like Simplisafe. You know, it's like, I guess I don't see what the difference is between Zoom and testifying in person. As long as someone's able to be cross examined, that, to me, that's the crux of the issue. And if there's some indication that it, you know, it does violate someone's rights, then I guess, you know, we have to understand that. But, God, what a dirtbag this guy is.
- [20:56]
B
I'm sorry, would you feel comfortable? You're on trial, coming up for stealing all this cereal.
- [21:02]
A
Oh, not again.
- [21:03]
B
And the person who sees you, I'm not gonna come to court. I'm just gonna testify via Zoom. Would that bother you?
- [21:10]
A
What? You couldn't even make time for my serial theft trial.
- [21:15]
B
Would you like to be able to look that person in the eye? Especially if you thought they were lying?
- [21:20]
A
I mean, I guess. I don't know. Like, I mean, maybe. So they're saying the kids are lying?
- [21:26]
B
I'm not even saying that. I'm just at. I'm just trying to go beyond this to get to the principles.
- [21:32]
A
I mean, I guess that would be ideal, but personally, I tend to be somebody who would be concerned about, you know, trauma and what the impact on a child, something like this would be. So I see your point that, like, in some instances, maybe it's allowed. In others, perhaps it's not appropriate. Generally, I think it would be preferable for everyone to be in the courtroom, but. But at the same time, you know, whether someone's constitutional rights are violated by a Zoom conference in this situation, I'm having a hard time seeing it, but again, maybe there's something there that I'm not seeing. Would you want someone to be in there?
- [22:09]
B
Yeah, of course.
- [22:11]
A
You know, in this case, do you think it does violate his rights?
- [22:15]
B
I have a lot of compassion for those children.
- [22:18]
A
Yeah.
- [22:19]
B
And I think it would have traumatized those children to be there.
- [22:23]
A
Yeah. This guy killed their mom. In front of them.
- [22:27]
B
In front of them, yeah. Let's go to Alabama. Have you ever been to Alabama? That's your next Case.
- [22:33]
A
Never been to Alabama. All of these states I've never been to except for Texas.
- [22:38]
B
So you're giving a spoiler that the last case is a Texas case. Yes, I've been to Texas. I've been to Texas with you.
- [22:44]
A
Yes, we were in Houston together. That was quite a time.
- [22:47]
B
Yes. We flew to Houston together to try to track down a person whose address we did not have. Super sleuths, Houston's a pretty big city. We did not have his address. We had a hunch that he might hang out at one particular restaurant. So we said, let. Let's invest our savings, let's buy a ticket, and let's go down to the great state of Texas and find this person. He was a figure in the burger shop case.
- [23:17]
A
Yeah. Don Quixote's got nothing on us. That was our tilting at windmills moment.
- [23:25]
B
Did not find him. Later on, someone gave us his phone number and we called him from Indiana.
- [23:31]
A
Yeah. So it was all very futile. No, I've never been to Alabama. This is a listener recommendation for this case. It's an incident murder.
- [23:42]
B
Do you remember when the Stars Fell on Alabama?
- [23:46]
A
No.
- [23:46]
B
Okay, go on.
- [23:47]
A
I do remember that. That song. Didn't that song come up on our radio recently?
- [23:52]
B
Yes, yes.
- [23:53]
A
That's why you're referencing it. Very clever. Anyways, this occurred on September 6th of this year, 2025. And this was a listener recommendation. And this is horrible. This involves. This is the murder of Dr. Julie Guard Chanelli. And she was 59 years old. She was a beloved, beloved local figure, a beloved professor emerita. And she was at Auburn University's College of Veterinary Medicine. And she was really considered a pioneer, a leader in the field of veterinary medicine. She was at Auburn from 2003 to 2021. She retired, at that point, studied animal reproduction. And she at some point was working with the United States Agriculture Department for Alabama and Mississippi. And so she was on a walk with her dog, seemingly at a dog park and. Or at some kind of park, actually. And this occurred in downtown Auburn. And around 10am that day, a man named Harold Rashad Dabney III, who was 28, is accused of kidnapping and fatally stabbing her. Yeah. In order to steal her vehicle. And he did steal her red Ford F150 pickup truck. And then the following day, he was arrested when police officers got a report of a suspicious person about five miles away from that area. So, you know, I think this is what. I think this sums it up really nicely. The person who sent this in said it was, quote, one of the Most despicable, senseless, cruel, evil and disgusting murders I've heard of in our area in a long time. End quote. I agree this is absolutely horrifying and I. I'll be interested to see what further develops from here. But the idea of knifing someone, tormenting someone, kidnapping them, knifing them for a truck is just so horrible. But there are people out there amongst us who are basically operating on selfish and disgusting impulses and, you know, don't see other people as fully human and will kill you to steal your shoes or truck or phone or money or whatever. And I almost feel like it's too nice to call them animals because animals usually kill for a reason or, you know, as self defense or to eat or something. And in this case, it's just predators. They're just. There's. There's nothing to them, you know, Like, I, I think you'd have to be pretty much soulless to do something like this, but unfortunately, there are people like that. So. Unfortunately, this beloved retired professor who spent her life helping animals and people had the misfortune of running into one of those predators that morning. And that's horrible.
- [27:03]
B
It's a very sad story.
- [27:04]
A
Very sad. But, yeah, I'll be curious to see what happens with that.
- [27:09]
B
Okay, so we're now heading to Montana.
- [27:14]
A
So you're picking, like the northern cases and today I'm picking the southern cases.
- [27:19]
B
Yes. Well, you went to college in Virginia, so you have that. Oh, no, you're a southern lady.
- [27:23]
A
No, I'm not. But anyways, moving on.
- [27:27]
B
Montana, of course, is called the Treasure State. Okay, I just looked that up.
- [27:35]
A
All right. State facts.
- [27:40]
B
So do states just get to pick names like that for themselves or is it just somebody says, oh, is that Montana? It's a treasure.
- [27:46]
A
As a native of the Hoosier State, you don't get to talk about. About anyone else's names because.
- [27:51]
B
No, I'm saying the Treasure State's a pretty good name. Yeah, the Hoosier State isn't. So I'm just trying to figure out what happened.
- [27:57]
A
I'm baffled by the Hoosier State because it's like, oh, what are people from Indiana called? Hoosiers. And what's the state nickname? The Hoosier State. Okay. Like, we're not really. We're not really. Like, it's the state where people from Indiana are. Yeah, we got that. Like, what? It's. It's like a circle, you know, I. And also. Whatever. Let's just move on it. It irks me. And then Indiana University like the. The team is the Hoosiers. Yes.
- [28:21]
B
What's your problem?
- [28:22]
A
It's just. I don't know. There's like. It just confuses me.
- [28:27]
B
But anyway, because you're a very literal person and you hate any sign of whimsy.
- [28:31]
A
No, I. I'm saying that's too literal. This, too. It reminds me in community. It's like the Greendale human beings. You know, it's like. Okay. The people.
- [28:40]
B
Okay, well, I'm gonna put you on the spot. Come up with a better nickname for us.
- [28:43]
A
I can't.
- [28:43]
B
I don't know, come up with a better mascot. Maybe.
- [28:45]
A
Maybe some. Maybe some animal that's native to Indiana or something. I don't know. I'm not going to come up with a mascot for you guys that.
- [28:52]
B
You, too. You live here.
- [28:53]
A
That's some soul searching that needs to happen. But I'm just saying we couldn't be anything other than the Hoosier State. Again, I like. I like the word Hoosiers. That's fun. But I'm just saying, like, the state nickname should almost be something that tells you a little bit about the state. So what's the treasure in Montana, though? Is there like a.
- [29:09]
B
So the. If you want to have the Hoosier. If you define it, if you want to. Our defining characteristics. We are.
- [29:17]
A
Oh, my God.
- [29:18]
B
Right? Thinking.
- [29:19]
A
Oh, Jesus Christ.
- [29:20]
B
Men and women of every race, color, and creed. That's how you define a Hoosier?
- [29:25]
A
Is that how you define a Hoosier? Okay, well, that's interesting. He's so proud of me.
- [29:30]
B
Hasn't that been your experience?
- [29:33]
A
But where is there, like, a secret treasure in Montana?
- [29:37]
B
I've never been to Montana.
- [29:38]
A
Well, I'm not. Obviously you didn't find it. I'm not asking that. I'm just asking, what's the treasure?
- [29:43]
B
So it sounds like Anya wants to sponsor, like, a meetup where we all go to Montana and look for treasure.
- [29:49]
A
We get killed in the mountains somehow. That would be our luck as murder. Sheep people. Or we get lost. We're not doing that, guys. We're not. There's no plans to go.
- [29:58]
B
Calling it off.
- [30:00]
A
I never called it on. And I'm not going to endanger our beautiful listeners by having us do some sort of, you know, boondoggle folly treasure hunt in Montana, where we might all just be misinterpreting the name. Maybe the real treasure is just the people of Montana, and we don't know.
- [30:18]
B
You were like, a big treasure beret.
- [30:20]
A
What's a treasure? What? I'm don't even gonna ask.
- [30:23]
B
Anytime you wear a beret, it's a treasure.
- [30:27]
A
No, it's not.
- [30:30]
B
So my source for this was the Department of Justice, who issued a press release about this case. And most of the coverage I saw in media seemed to basically be heavily quoting, if not plagiarizing, this press release.
- [30:45]
A
So I'm just using this, calling people out.
- [30:50]
B
I tell it like it is.
- [30:52]
A
I appreciate it.
- [30:53]
B
So this case involves what jumped out at me about this. People always are looking for, what do podcasts do? What do podcasts do? So this is an instance where a podcast kind of played a role unintentionally in some developments. So a guy named Corey Spurlock, a guy named Will Larson, and some other people are involved in this really major marijuana distribution business. And the press release notes that it's illegal. I guess marijuana is not legal in Montana or Nevada. The business was actually based in Moundhouse, Nevada. And so a guy named Gerald Stefanski apparently goes there to get some marijuana, and then he goes missing. And he had a large amount of money with him because, of course, when you go to a large marijuana business, you're going to want to really stock up. So he goes missing, and this happens in June of 2020. Now, in late September of 2020, his mother goes on a podcast and she talks about this and she names some of these names, including the name of Will Larson and Corey Spurlock. Now, Mr. Spurlock listens to this podcast and he comes away with the impression that Mr. Larson is somehow cooperating with police.
- [32:39]
A
Oh, my God.
- [32:41]
B
I'm guessing I don't even know what podcast this is. I'm guessing I think I found it. I'm guessing the mother didn't explicitly say that he gets that impression. And so he says, well, if he is a rat, he needs to die. And so he arranges a conspiracy to commit murder. And indeed, Mr. Larson and his wife were both shot and stabbed to death, and their bodies were left on the side of U.S. highway 395. And he subsequently was found guilty of drug related crimes and also guilty of murder for hire, conspiracy, and tampering with the witness by killing. And other than the podcast connection, another thing that comes up is the lesson we learned from President Nixon is the COVID up often causes more problems than the crime itself.
- [33:39]
A
Correct? Yes.
- [33:42]
B
You said you just found the podcast.
- [33:43]
A
Yeah, I think so. I'm not going to name it.
- [33:45]
B
Okay.
- [33:45]
A
Yikes, that's heavy. Can you imagine?
- [33:48]
B
Yeah.
- [33:49]
A
Interview somebody and it basically gets somebody killed. Yeah, I mean, obviously it's the killer's fault. It's not the podcaster or the. This gentleman's mother who, you know, the missing man. But that's pretty heavy. But I mean, I guess when you're dealing with people who are irrational enough to be murdering other people, then maybe anything can kind of prompt them to get paranoid.
- [34:12]
B
So you're saying it's heavy?
- [34:14]
A
It's really. That's. I mean, that's just. I mean, I just think that's like. I mean, that would be difficult to deal with as a media figure. Right? Yeah, you interview someone and then it gets someone unrelated killed. But again, again, it's that person's choice to kill people. So I'm not saying it's that podcaster's fault, but geez, I'm just like. Because we're podcasters, that's stuff that, you know, you're always worried about any, like, basically anything bad happening to. To a source, perhaps, or like, oh, they got fired because, you know, it came out that they were talking to you. But I mean, this is like next level, obviously, but. Yeah, well, I mean, that's also a good, good example of like, sometimes if you're involved with, you know, people in some sort of grow operation and then they kill somebody, you know, it might. Might be good to get out while you're ahead or make a deal and, you know, tell the police what you know before they start wrapping up loose ends. Because that's. That's almost a dangerous position to be in if you know something about another murder. You know, that's not necessarily insurance. That might just mean that you're another. The next target, I suppose.
- [35:24]
B
Should we move on to the final case of the program? And this will be the case. The final case will be followed by, I think you said there's promotional announcements. And then is it your turn to offer the story or is it my turn?
- [35:35]
A
I think, unfortunately, it's my turn. Even though you're definitely better at it. So if you want to throw in an emergency anecdote at the end, after me, go ahead. Just to clear things out.
- [35:43]
B
I'm sure it'll be a spellbinder.
- [35:45]
A
A spellbinder.
- [35:46]
B
I always have lurid stuff. I can say lurid.
- [35:49]
A
Oh, what.
- [35:51]
B
But you're.
- [35:52]
A
Now I want to know what you're gonna do.
- [35:53]
B
You're talking about a Texas case. Can you. Before you get into the case, can you tell us something fun about Texas?
- [36:02]
A
I mean, we went there.
- [36:06]
B
Is it the.
- [36:07]
A
Are you trying to set me up for something specific? I'm.
- [36:09]
B
No, no. We were trying to have state trivia Is it the only state that was once an independent nation?
- [36:14]
A
I think so. The, the Lone Star. I don't know, I mean, I, I.
- [36:19]
B
I, I think that Dallas has a pretty nice half price bookstore. Okay, so those are the two things you need to know about Texas. Independent nation, half price books in Dallas.
- [36:30]
A
Interesting.
- [36:31]
B
Not really.
- [36:32]
A
I mean, not really. I don't know what you're doing with this state stuff, but it's not working for me. I'm just, I'm just, well, pardon me.
- [36:39]
B
For loving this great nation. And I'm trying to learn more about each of the states we cover.
- [36:45]
A
Yeah, I mean, I, I think, I think all, I mean, I think all the states are interesting. They've all got their own thing going on. I don't know all of them. Yeah, I, all of them. And I don't know that much about Texas, but you know, when we were driving through Houston, there were some pretty nice parts. I know that's the first president of Texas, when it was its own, when it was doing its own thing, was Sam Houston.
- [37:07]
B
So you're like a fount of information about the great state of Texas.
- [37:12]
A
No, I'm not.
- [37:13]
B
You're a bit of an expert on the state, but with that said, let's move on.
- [37:17]
A
Well, I just thought, I mean, we went to Houston. That's, I think he was also then I think he was like the Grover Cleveland of Texas presidents.
- [37:23]
B
Because he, I think he killed a bunch of people.
- [37:26]
A
No, not because he killed, Well, I don't, I don't know what he did. I know he was from Virginia and I know he was like the first and the third president. Like, he came back.
- [37:34]
B
Was he, like sexually promiscuous like Grover Cleveland?
- [37:38]
A
You. I don't know anything about, believe it or not, Kevin, I don't know anything about Grover Cleveland's sex life or about Sam Houston's sex life.
- [37:45]
B
Well, I, frankly, I don't, at some.
- [37:47]
A
Point, I don't even, I question you raising those places.
- [37:50]
B
At some point, there'd be a murder sheet after dark where I can tell the adults in the audience about Grover Cleveland and he. It's an eye opener.
- [37:59]
A
And that will be an episode where I sound strangely tinny. And it'll be because Kevin, like, used some sort of like, voice duplicator to get me in there because I would refuse to participate.
- [38:09]
B
Mama, where's my pa?
- [38:11]
A
What are you talking about?
- [38:13]
B
You brought up Grover Cleveland.
- [38:14]
A
Are you having a stroke?
- [38:16]
B
Talk about this case.
- [38:18]
A
Is that because Grover Cleveland allegedly, like, fathered children?
- [38:22]
B
Yeah.
- [38:23]
A
Jesus. Yeah, he was All I know is when he was sheriff, like, he executed like, I think, like two Irish guys. So that always made me kind of side I am. Why were they both Irish at the.
- [38:35]
B
Top of the episode?
- [38:36]
A
Do you have something against the Irish.
- [38:37]
B
At the top of the episode? We said, we haven't done this for a while. We're a bit out of practice. So we warned you.
- [38:42]
A
Yeah, you're, you're.
- [38:43]
B
We warned everybody.
- [38:44]
A
Yeah, you. Well, I think the privacy.
- [38:47]
B
My conscience is clear.
- [38:49]
A
It shouldn't be. It frankly shouldn't be.
- [38:51]
B
Tell us about the case.
- [38:52]
A
Move on. Jesus Christ, get me out of here. So this is Texas, and this is a terrible, terrible situation where a woman who's 47 years old, her name is Rana Nafal Solouri, she was a flight attendant with an Envoy Air. And she was, you know, very big personality. Her family described her as a small, smaller woman, but just someone who was gonna stand up for herself and sort of be very outgoing and talkative. She was a Jordanian Palestinian and she was living in, in Texas with a man called Dennis William Day. And she went missing. And what happened was she. And this is for coverage from NBC dfw. But this was a situation where. So she's living in Texas and she's living with this guy for a year. And her family said things seemed fine, but then at some point he. He attacked and killed her. And then he had some help covering up this horrible crime. He called his friend, 62 year old Joanie Thomas, and they were instrumental in moving her body. So they moved her body to the backyard. He turned off all his surveillance equipment and he put her body in a trash bin. And. And then Thomas in her truck took her to, you know, a nearby area where he threw her off a bridge. And so, I mean, that's all incredibly horrible, but here's where, here's where it just gets insane. So according to this report, the warrant said that cell phone records show that Thomas drove to Day's house that day after the killing. And they both left their phones at his house before they drove her to the bridge. But there was an accidental voicemail from day two. Thomas. And you can hear a man and a woman saying things like, hey, help me make sure the lid's on. I'm sorry I got you messed up in this. So they, they did a butt dial to each other during this thing and left a record of them moving a body and, and making noises where it's very apparent that they're moving something heavy. So, you know, I think we should all remember stuff like this when we think about. We shouldn't. You know, most people who do crimes are incredibly stupid and not geniuses. And. And either they get lucky or. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty much if they get away with it, it's usually because they get lucky. But anyways, very sad that this woman was murdered by them and heart goes out to her family, but also, you know, yikes, you know. And that's it.
- [41:54]
B
That's it.
- [41:55]
A
So now we're going to talk about stuff we've got coming up, I suppose.
- [41:58]
B
Promotional announcements and then a story. You say you want me to do a story too? So there'd be two stories.
- [42:04]
A
Okay, well, that's fine.
- [42:06]
B
Mine will be lurid.
- [42:09]
A
What? Like how? Lord.
- [42:10]
B
Well, I mean, we're all just keep. Give the people the announcements.
- [42:15]
A
Okay, so September 20th, we're going to be going to Noblesville, Indiana. That is Saturday. That is this Saturday.
- [42:24]
B
That's tomorrow.
- [42:25]
A
That's tomorrow. Because you guys are hearing this on Friday. Okay, so tomorrow we're going to Noblesville. We're going to the Barnes and Noble. And I think we'll be there from. In the afternoon, I believe. Let me actually look up the specific time because I want to. I want to be precise for these good people. And yeah, we'll be there and we'd love to meet you. And it looks like we're going to be there from one to three. Okay, so one to three, we're going to be in the Barnes and Noble in Noblesville. Come and hang out with us and say hi and buy the book from them and get your book signed and it'll be great. So the next One is Friday, September 26th. We're going to Kendallville. We're going back to the community Learning center up there in Kendallville. Get tickets. That's going to be six to eight, I believe. And you can. In our Murder Sheet events page, which is linked in every show note that we put out there nowadays, you can go there and you can click and that's where you get the, you know, where the. The general events pages. And then you can click to get your tickets on a specific page there.
- [43:30]
B
Should we have like an unofficial meetup at the Grops Fish Shack prior to.
- [43:35]
A
That, if you want to organize that, you can.
- [43:38]
B
Well, I. We're going to be at the Grupp's Fish Shack eating just enormous quantities of fish. You will be to an unhealthy extent.
- [43:50]
A
And then you'll be all like, oh, no, my stomach hurts now. And it'll be like, yeah, it Always happens.
- [43:55]
B
Such good fish. You love that fish.
- [43:57]
A
It's very good. It's very good.
- [43:59]
B
Didn't you say, I don't really like.
- [44:00]
A
Fried fish as much as you do?
- [44:02]
B
But you said this fish was exquisite. You said, Kevin, now I understand.
- [44:05]
A
I don't know if I said exquisite. I think I said very good.
- [44:07]
B
Well, maybe I'm paraphrasing, but you said, kevin, now I understand your love of fish.
- [44:13]
A
I really enjoyed that fish. I thought it was very good. And I was very impressed with Grop's Fish Shack. But. But I'm concerned that you're going to overeat and feel sick afterwards, so.
- [44:26]
B
But it'll be worth it because my stomach will be full of grops.
- [44:32]
A
Oh, God.
- [44:33]
B
So we'll be there. Be at some point before the show.
- [44:35]
A
Well, I'm, you know, if you want to coordinate a whole elaborate meetup, you can do that, but I'm. I'm. I'm coordinated out of existence.
- [44:43]
B
Well, I'm not sure if the grops people would like that.
- [44:47]
A
I. I don't know either.
- [44:49]
B
God bless you.
- [44:49]
A
So maybe you shouldn't just speculate randomly about doing this on the. While we're recording the show.
- [44:55]
B
What's next on your list?
- [44:56]
A
Friday, October 3rd, we're going to Franklin, Indiana. This is going to be a super cool event. This is also going to be ticketed, and we're going to be going. I think it's with the Johnson County Historical Society folks. Actually, let me pull up the timing for this one, too. So we have it. So it's going to be with the Johnson County Museum of History, and it's going to be. Doors open at 5pm they have it going on until 10pm so it's going to be a late night for everybody.
- [45:26]
B
Should we have an unofficial meetup at the frozen custard stand?
- [45:31]
A
No, no. We don't need to make this freaking schedule more complicated.
- [45:37]
B
No, see, I associate. I associate. I associate every city with a treat.
- [45:43]
A
That's how I get Kevin to go do things. Okay, Kevin, there's a treat here, all right?
- [45:49]
B
They have really good frozen custard in Franklin.
- [45:51]
A
There's no meat. There's no meetup. The meetup is the evening with. With us at the Johnson County Museum of History. It's gonna be great. It's ticketed. Get your tickets. It's gonna be awesome. So then what else do we have? Da da da. And then we have October 11th, Saturday, going to Louisville, Kentucky for the Louisville Book Festival. That's gonna be super cool. Come check us out. And there'll be other authors there that are great. Saturday, October 18th.
- [46:19]
B
Didn't we once, like, eat on a boat in Louisville, like king crab or something?
- [46:25]
A
I don't think it was called king crab. We went on like, the cool, like old timey steamboat thing to eat fish. I don't remember eating fish there.
- [46:34]
B
But what's on, what happened on October 18th?
- [46:36]
A
We're going to the Barnes and Noble in Carmel, Indiana. And then that's gonna be in the afternoon. And then Saturday, November 1st, we're going to the Barnes and Noble in Lafayette, Indiana. And there'll probably be a couple more events that we'll add to this list as, as things come up over time. And if you have something that you want us to go to, or if you own a shop or you know someone who does and you want to connect us with them, please go ahead and do so. We're very open to all of this right now. It'd be great.
- [47:03]
B
And I'm going to paraphrase here something somebody said, but we just had an event in Columbus, and afterwards we met a Patreon. And I'm paraphrasing here, but she said, my God, Columbus truly is the Athens of the Prairies.
- [47:17]
A
I. And you're definitely paraphrasing.
- [47:21]
B
I acknowledge that that's not what she said, but she said something not entirely dissimilar from that.
- [47:25]
A
God.
- [47:25]
B
So do you want to do your story?
- [47:27]
A
So I have a story. So I was a lifeguard when I was 16. Onward for a couple years. And I thought it was pretty cool about it. Cause I was a beach lifeguard. I wasn't just a pool lifeguard. And you have to get kind of a different training for that. But it was fun. I really enjoyed that job because, you know, I, I, I, the customer's not always right. Right. And like, those, those are tougher jobs. They have to deal with people and their nonsense. But with lifeguarding, you could be like, no, you can't stand on the, you know, on the, whatever wall and jump off into the water. You gotta stop it. So kind of was a, was a cool teenage job to have. But one year I forgot to bring back the, like the key to the equipment shack or something. So I told my boss, I'm like, I'm sorry. I went back home with this. And they were just like, just mail it in. It's not a big deal. And I said, okay, sure. So I go to my, my grandma, my grandmother, my maternal grandmother was a wonderful little lady from Ireland, and she was very, very feisty. And she, you know, was kind of like, very hyperactive. Love her. Miss her very much. Unfortunately, she passed away, but she was awesome. And she. She's also had very specific ways of doing things. I don't know why. I guess I'm probably a bit like this too, in some ways. But she's like, oh, you have to mail back the key. No worries. I'll help you. And she, she. And I'm like, doing homework or something. She's like, I'm just gonna do that key thing for you. I was like, okay, thanks for helping Grandma. And I come back and she's like, okay, I've got it all ready to mail. And this key was on, like, this little key ring. So for some reason, she separated the key from the key ring and then put them both on a. What looked like a scrap of an old calendar so that the key and the key ring were on different dates. And then took clear, like, tape and taped both of those, like, multiple layers, like. Like a. A wild amount of layers of tape around the key and the key ring around this scrap of calendar. And I'm like. I'm like, oh, my God, this looks like something this. A serial killer would send, like, the police to taunt them. Like, this key thing. And this key leads to a. Like a storage unit where you're going to find, like, a dead body or something. It looked. It looked horrifying. And. And then she put that in an envelope and just, you know, put our. Our return address and the people's, you know, the. The boss's, I guess, work address on that, and we just sent it out. But I was just thinking, oh, my God, I'm never gonna get hired again after this. This is just insane.
- [50:12]
B
That's a very disturbing.
- [50:13]
A
But I was, like, cracking up about it. No, but it's very much like. It's like. There's something about it where it's like she. She's worried that it's gonna, like, break apart in the shipping. It made sense when you knew her, but I just. I thought it was so funny at the time, though. I didn't say anything, but I was just like, no. I don't know. They probably already thought I was weird, so it just kind of probably confirmed that for them. But anyways, what's your story?
- [50:33]
B
So my story. Not as good as that. It doesn't directly.
- [50:37]
A
I don't think that was a very good story. It was just silly, silly shenanigans.
- [50:40]
B
Doesn't directly involve me. But we were talking about Columbus, and when I worked in a judge's office there for a summer while I was in law school, a number of interesting cases. And one case came up that I remember was the talk of the courthouse with all the lawyers who were saying, oh, there's all this, all this. And I'll tell you about it. We're all adults here. So there's these two couples.
- [51:06]
A
Oh, God, this story.
- [51:10]
B
There's these two couples driving around Columbus, which, as we all know, is the Athens of the Prairies. They're on a double date. They say, what can we do in Columbus in an evening on a double date? And I don't know, maybe back then Columbus didn't have as many fine opportunities for entertainment as it does today. They can't. Anya knows what's coming. Maybe Columbus didn't have all these opportunities that it does now. And so they can't think of anything. And so one of the people in the car, we don't know who, says, oh, I've got an idea. Why don't we pull over in a dark place and we'll just have sex? And that'll kill about 10 minutes, right? So they do this, but the person in the backseat, the woman in the backseat, she's very safety conscious. And she says, well, I'm not going to do this unless a condom is used. And as it happens, her partner doesn't have a condom. But good news, the guy in the front seat does have a condom. He has just one. And so he says, what we'll do is after I'm done, I'll take it off and I'll pass it to the guy in the backseat, and then you guys have your opportunity.
- [52:28]
A
Oh, my God, that's so gross.
- [52:29]
B
So that happens. And what they don't realize is that when they pass it back and forth, the guy in the backseat, he turns it inside out. So what a few moments earlier was on the inside of the condom is now on the outside of the condom. And not to be gross about it, but he ends up impregnating his girlfriend with the sperm of the guy in the front seat. And so it's a situation where the father of her child is someone she never had intercourse with. And so the question became, who is liable for child support here? And there were all sorts of arguments and debates because certainly the guy in the front seat knowingly passed the condom back. So was he. It's just. It's a complicated thing. Certainly biologically, the law would state that the guy in the front seat was the father of the child. As I recall, the judge did make that ruling, but I believe they were going to appeal it. What are your thoughts on the matter?
- [53:39]
A
I mean, the biological father's the father, in my opinion.
- [53:44]
B
So kind of a lurid little Columbus.
- [53:46]
A
Story to close out if someone's like, an. It makes Columbus sound terrible, frankly. So much for the Athens of the prairies.
- [53:53]
B
Anya, this was like, a quarter of a century ago.
- [53:55]
A
Oh, it's cleaned up to its act. Were these people on drugs? No, that's.
- [54:01]
B
And they weren't drunk to my not. I wasn't there with them, so you.
- [54:06]
A
Better not have been. That's just so disgusting.
- [54:14]
B
But I wouldn't be surprised if alcohol was involved in some way.
- [54:17]
A
You know, it's just. But it makes you realize, like, whenever you talk to, like, people who work in, like, I don't know, like, in. In anything like that or like, the law, like, you see so much weird and, frankly, depraved stuff every day. At least that one. Everyone was, like, consensual about it, obviously. So it's. You know. But, like, you just see such, like, what are people thinking? It must really, like, kind of, like, lower your view of humanity.
- [54:43]
B
Yeah. People who work in the law, defense attorneys, prosecutors, they really see people at their absolute worst.
- [54:53]
A
I'm not even saying those people. I mean, that's all really disgusting and gross, but at least, like, no one was doing any crimes, really.
- [55:00]
B
Certainly after I spent that summer working with that judge, my view of Columbus and maybe humanity certainly changed because there's lots of stories from that summer.
- [55:11]
A
Yeah. God. That's why. It's like, if you ever, like, oh, man, things used to be so great. Just go in the pup and look at old court cases. Like, it's always been crazy stuff happening, and, you know, nothing's ever been great.
- [55:26]
B
Are you okay?
- [55:27]
A
No. Oh, man. But thank you for sharing that. I remember when you first told me that my, like, jaw was on the floor. I was just like, who does this? Like, also, like, are you just going to hang out as a group after that? Like, you know what I mean? Like, the group dynamic. Who's thinking of this?
- [55:48]
B
Because also, it's a situation where, like, the first couple does it, the second couple is just waiting patiently, and then it's passed back. And then the first couple.
- [55:57]
A
I don't want to know anything more about this. But I also kind of like, what? Like, I. I just. I don't know. I. I can't. I can't. I can't even imagine. It's other. Other people are just doing stuff, that's all I can say people are out.
- [56:11]
B
Here doing this, making bad choices.
- [56:14]
A
I hope, I hope the kid was okay from all of this, though. You know, that's what a way to come into this world.
- [56:23]
B
So on that note, are we done?
- [56:25]
A
I think we're done. I think I'm done with everything.
- [56:29]
B
It's a button thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us@murdersheetmail.com if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.
- [56:51]
A
If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com. if you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www.buymeacoffee.com murdersheet we very much appreciate any support.
- [57:15]
B
Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the web@kevintg.com if you're looking to talk with.
- [57:26]
A
Other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet Discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.