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- [00:00]
A
The brand Quint has become our go to when it comes to clothing that's classic, well made and high value. Seriously, I'm about to go on another shopping spree there and the big question I have is what pieces are going to make me the happiest as summer winds down?
- [00:14]
B
Quince has good stuff that will last you for years to come. Their items are half the cost of that of their competitors. They pass the savings on to you by cutting out the middlemen. I just recently got their 100% European linen utilities shirt in martini olive. It's just like the kind of shirts I'm used to wearing, only it feels better made, so it's like an elevated version. I love how comfortable the fabric is, how it breathes. What's most important is that Anya likes what the color is doing for my eyes.
- [00:47]
A
I also got a little blue beret because Kevin insists I wear more hats. It's very cute. I love it. I'm also looking at their 100% European linen dresses as well as more cashmere and cotton sweaters starting at $40, not to mention their washable silk tops and denim pants. I can't wait to see the latest selections from Quints and we'll definitely let you all know about what we get next.
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B
Elevate your fall wardrobe essentials with quince. Go to quince.commsheet for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's quince.commsheet to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.commsheet Parlez tout hablaspagnol parlle Italiano if.
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A
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B
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- [02:15]
B
Bombas are so absurdly comfortable you may throw out all your other clothes.
- [02:19]
A
Sorry, do we legally have to say that?
- [02:21]
B
No, this is just how I talk. And I really love my Bombas.
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A
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- [02:42]
B
Content warning. This episode contains discussion of murder and. Everybody, make sure you have your passports ready.
- [02:51]
A
Our passports.
- [02:53]
B
I'm gonna make sure your papers are in order because Anya informs me that we will be boarding the cane. Catamarain. Which I think is close to a word, right?
- [03:05]
A
I think it's catamaran.
- [03:06]
B
Well, for rhyming purposes, you're allowed to change the pronunciation.
- [03:10]
A
Oh, I didn't know that was the rule. I'm sorry.
- [03:13]
B
And we're going to take the Kane catamaraine. I don't even know what kind of vehicle that is. Hopefully it's really, really seaworthy because we'll be taking it all the way across the Atlantic over to England for the first case. And then for the second case, I believe the Chunnel might be involved.
- [03:30]
A
Oh, wow.
- [03:31]
B
Maybe sky planes. Perhaps a zeppelin.
- [03:34]
A
A sky plane? As opposed to what?
- [03:39]
B
Maybe a dirigible. Maybe camels might be involved. But we're going to end up after. After that arduous journey, we're going to end up somehow in Australia for Anya's second case.
- [03:55]
A
People. People who've been to Australia are going to be confused. Like, we could have just taken the tunnel.
- [04:00]
B
And then. And then after Anya's arduous journeys are complete, you know, you can just strap in and relax, get on a nice yacht and then ride in comfort across the ocean. Straight to Indiana.
- [04:13]
A
Straight to Indiana.
- [04:14]
B
Straight to Indiana.
- [04:14]
A
Our landlocked state.
- [04:17]
B
It's one of those ground yachts. And then from there, you're going to go down and we're going to conclude the episode in the great state of Alabama.
- [04:25]
A
Wow.
- [04:26]
B
So that's. I like people to know the itinerary.
- [04:31]
A
You like people to know that you don't understand geography at all. The itinerary. One of those marine yachts that goes.
- [04:38]
B
On when you go on a vacation. Don't you like to have your little itinerary where you hear my flights?
- [04:42]
A
Yes.
- [04:43]
B
So now for, like, this episode of the Cheat Sheet. Well, we better get in the dirigible. It's time to go to Australia.
- [04:48]
A
Time. Time to do it.
- [04:50]
B
Take the dirigible through the Chunnel.
- [04:54]
A
Oh, gosh. Off to a good start. So. So are we ready for the. The intro?
- [05:01]
B
And this time, I'll. I'll confide a secret.
- [05:05]
A
Yeah. This is the secret of the Cheat Sheet.
- [05:08]
B
We Messed up. We just. We just re. We just did, like, 10. The first 10 minutes of this podcast, and I'll tell you, it's probably the best 10 minutes we ever did.
- [05:17]
A
I guarantee golden.
- [05:20]
B
I was very incisful. I was very.
- [05:23]
A
You were incisable. A new word. Yes.
- [05:25]
B
That's how good I was. I was coining new words left and right, but somehow it wasn't recording, and so we. We've had to start over.
- [05:33]
A
I. I've always had paranoia about our system because I can. You know, Kevin, for some reason, wants to zoom it out into space, so you can't really see if the bar of audio is forming along the system. And then he zoomed it in, and it turns out it wasn't even recording. So it was devastating.
- [05:49]
B
Golden episode. I think it would have gone down in the annals of podcasting history, and it's lost forever.
- [05:56]
A
It's lost media because we didn't record it.
- [06:00]
B
Yeah, it's gone. It's gone.
- [06:03]
A
It was just like. We're just talking to each other. Doesn't that make you feel ridiculous?
- [06:08]
B
Well, we talk to each other all the time.
- [06:10]
A
I know, but it's like we're just gapping at each other, and we didn't know it's going to hear it. That's our life.
- [06:16]
B
That's what we do every day. We talk to each other. It's not recorded, but this was a golden episode. I was never more clever. I was never more witty or delightful.
- [06:28]
A
But unfortunately, that's over. So people shouldn't have any high expectations.
- [06:31]
B
For this, because I'm shattered by that loss.
- [06:33]
A
Yeah, we spent it all in the first 10 minutes of what's recorded. We also shared some secrets of the cheat sheet, didn't we?
- [06:40]
B
So thank God that wasn't recorded.
- [06:43]
A
You know, people, you accuse me of having all sorts of bizarre and archaic rules around the cheat sheet.
- [06:49]
B
That doesn't sound like anything I would say.
- [06:51]
A
Well, that's how I remember it. But I guess we can't check the.
- [06:54]
B
Tape because I always treat you with the utmost respect.
- [06:58]
A
Is that true?
- [06:59]
B
And love you.
- [07:00]
A
The man who's made a rumor about me being a serial thief and having my own private train makes me sound ridiculous.
- [07:08]
B
Well, they're not rumors if they're true. Why don't you push the button, Anya?
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A
My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.
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B
And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.
- [07:17]
A
And this is the Murder Sheet.
- [07:18]
B
We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're the murder sheet, and this is the cheat sheet.
- [07:28]
A
Dogs and double jeopardy it. All right, so we're out of the channel. No, no, no. I'm sorry. We haven't gotten the channel yet.
- [08:21]
B
You don't know your geography?
- [08:23]
A
Apparently not. So we are going to England. I do want to note something. We are recording this on August 14th, and I don't think it's out until August 22nd. So actually, that's the day Bartholomew Gosnell died in Jamestown.
- [08:37]
B
And of course, August 16, which isn't relevant to this discussion at all, is the anniversary of Elvis Presley's death.
- [08:44]
A
Wow. So there's a lot going on. Okay, so there. But also, there may be developments that may happen, you know.
- [08:52]
B
In Elvis's death?
- [08:53]
A
No, in the whole.
- [08:55]
B
I think it's pretty well settled what happened there.
- [08:57]
A
Well. Oh, my God. Do you believe any of the conspiracy theories about his death?
- [09:03]
B
No, I, I, I, I believe he had some pretty substantial drug problems, and I, I, I believe he died in, in an unfortunate way, and it's a tragedy. He was a very young man.
- [09:15]
A
Yeah, that is, yeah, definitely. But, so the reason I say this is because we're recording stuff ahead of time in advance, because we're doing a lot of stuff around selling our book, Shadow of the Bridge, and the coming weeks. So we do apologize if there are any developments on any of these cases in the interim, but just please forgive us because it is August 14th, and we won't know those things. So you're, you're hearing from.
- [09:37]
B
We just, we just don't want to let anybody down, and we want to make sure we get the Cheat Sheet episodes out. We don't want to skip a week. We don't be one of those podcasts. We only record when it's convenient to them. Oh, you know who I'm talking about.
- [09:52]
A
We're the podcast martyrs. But, yeah, and as far. Just, Just to let you guys know, so Bartholomew Gosnell was one of the main guys at Jamestown. My, maybe my favorite guy at Jamestown. Perhaps there's a couple, Couple in contention. But you'll, you'd like him, Kevin. Well, I don't know if you'd like him, but he was a barrister, he studied at the Middle Temple, and.
- [10:16]
B
Yeah, so, so that's the end of the episode.
- [10:19]
A
And then he died. He died like four months into the expedition. So once he died, everything went to hell pretty much. But anyways, love him and am fascinated by Jamestown. But what were we talking about? Let's go to England, where the people from Jamestown Originally came from, for the most part, although there were some, some people from Poland there pretty early. This is a very gruesome case out of England. My sources for this, Sky News, the BBC and the Crown Prosecutor Service, like, I guess, website press release that they have up there. So this is like, just sounds like something out of a, I don't know, like a mystery novel or something. There's a, there's a situation in Clifton in Bristol, England, where it's evening time and a bunch of witnesses end up seeing a guy rolling or carrying these two very heavy suitcases around. At one point, somebody asks him, what have you got in there? A body? Dead silence. No. LAUGHTER Just like the answer is no. 2 bodies. So he didn't actually say that, but that, that is. Spoiler alert. That's what was happening. He dumps these things on the Clifton suspension bridge and runs. A diligent cyclist is able to film him and kind of follows him, but does lose him in the woodlands. And police descend upon these suitcases which had been like revealing, you know, like leaking red liquid and whatnot, which was blood. And they, they are, you know, the police open it and get the shock of their lives. They find decapitated, dismembered bodies of two men. Just horrible. And one of the detectives on this, Detective Neil Mead, has said that this has had a horrible impact on the people who, you know, it was a big impact on the people who had to deal with this. So I imagine very gruesome. So they identify the bodies as belonging to two men, a couple, Albert Alfonso and Paul Longworth. And this was kind of an, you know, they were kind of an older couple, I think Paul was 71, Albert was 62. And it turned out that they had sort of met this guy, this 34 year old young, younger man who was also a, I guess a, you know, a porn star or star might be too generous of a word. He, he did pornography online. He did like, you know, videotaped. So he's like a sex worker. Yostin Mosquera was his name and he was from the, the, the nation of Columbia. So they went over to Columbia to visit him, then he came over to England to visit them. There was a sexual component to this. And what ended up happening was police made a very, another gruesome discovery. They discovered the heads of the men, first of all in this flat that they had in London. And they also found video footage of mascara and Alfonso having sex. And then Alfonso was stabbed to death by mascara during that, so very brutal death. And then he also Killed Longworth in addition to that. So just a, just a horrible, horrible case. And, and a listener kind of recommended that we look into this. I think it's just one of those cases that's just like, what is going on. Really kind of hard to understand the motive here. The police have said things about like, he stole money from them and there was an element of, you know, maybe a financial motive, but that really doesn't describe the level of grotesque gruesomeness here. Right. I mean, it's like, and, and people have noted, like, he could have killed them, left them in the apartment, nobody else lived there. He could have left and gone back to Colombia and probably done better for himself with that. But instead he like, takes the time to dismember them and put them in suitcases and leave. It's just like, it's really baffling. So he was convicted. He went, this went. This happened again in 2024. The trial started April 29, 2025. And then on July 21, 2025, he was convicted, found guilty, and, you know, he's going to be sentenced in October. So this is from the Crown Prosecution Service. This is apparently his strategy at trial was to blame Alfonso for killing Longworth and claiming that he killed Alfonso in self defense and that Alfonso sexually attacked him, which seems to be disproven by the video and also seems to make no sense at all because why would you then dismember him? Like, you know, I mean, if you were, like, if someone, if someone was coming at you having just killed someone else, wouldn't you, if you had to kill them, wouldn't you, like, immediately call police and be like, here's what happened? Just doesn't make any sense. So this is what Miranda Jolly of the Crown Prosecution Service said in this press release. Quote, first and foremost, our thoughts remain with the victims and their families and friends at this time. Our case, based on methodically piecing together witness statements, CCTV footage, digital and forensic evidence, was that it was simply impossible for Yostin Mosquera's version of events to be true. CCTV and employment records prove that Mr. Alfonso was at work when Mr. Longworth was brutally murdered. And Mosquera's search history on his laptop showed that he was looking to purchase a chest freezer even before committing his first savage killing. With a comprehensive timeline mapped out, the weight of evidence stacked up against him and meant that, that meant that the jury could be sure he was responsible for murdering both victims. So, you know, very sad situation that this couple was brutally murdered, but I'M it's good that they got this guy off the street, because how horrible.
- [16:28]
B
So terrible.
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A
That's England. And now let's go to Australia.
- [16:34]
B
Let's go to Australia.
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A
Go through the Chunnel.
- [16:36]
B
That's right.
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A
Because that's definitely how life works.
- [16:40]
B
It's just a fun word.
- [16:42]
A
Chunnel.
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B
Yeah.
- [16:42]
A
Yeah, it is a fun word. I like it, too.
- [16:44]
B
Dirigible. That's a fun word.
- [16:46]
A
I don't even know what that is.
- [16:48]
B
That's like the Hindenburg that was a dirigible.
- [16:50]
A
Is that. Are you saying that right? I trust you. I'm sorry.
- [16:54]
B
Hindenburg. What do you mean?
- [16:58]
A
I've never heard. I, I, I've read the word dirigible or whatever that is, but I don't. I didn't know how that was pronounced.
- [17:05]
B
Should we check?
- [17:06]
A
No.
- [17:06]
B
What went live on the program. Do you want to, like, call up? So then I will either look like a hero or. The goat.
- [17:15]
A
The goat.
- [17:19]
B
So I can be humiliated or I can be celebrated. It's about to happen.
- [17:22]
A
I'm gonna look. I'm looking. I'm. I'm trying.
- [17:26]
B
We're seeing Anya's research skills live. This is what she. Reachable.
- [17:33]
A
I think you got it right.
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B
You think? No, I got it exactly right.
- [17:39]
A
So it's not like a latrell. Like, remember that whole thing when we kept him saying his name wrong, and then I would corre. But I would be wrong, too? Yeah, that was like. That was like one of those things. It was like, I, I don't know. Like you feel yourself, like, falling down and you can't stop yourself. Anyways, good job. I'm proud of you.
- [18:01]
B
Thank you.
- [18:02]
A
You're welcome. We report on some very scary cases and deal with some, frankly, pretty scary people. Like getting threatened, even getting death threats. It forces you to think about how safe you really are.
- [18:14]
B
That's why we're grateful for our long term sponsor, Simplisafe. Simplisafe is a home security system that delivers and gives us peace of mind. That is priceless.
- [18:27]
A
What I love about Simplisafe is that they're great for every stage of life. Renting. No worries. You don't need drills. Homeowners can also rest assured that there are no sneaky fees or contracts. They meet you where you are, plus they're proactive.
- [18:40]
B
Once your home is broken into, that shatters your sense of peace and security. So Simplisafe seeks to prevent that from even happening. If their agents catch a lurker, they switch on the spotlight and tell the bad guy that someone is watching them.
- [18:57]
A
There's a reason CNET named them the best home security system of 2025. Their AI powered cameras and live monitoring agents can help prevent problems before they even happen.
- [19:09]
B
Visit simplisafe.com msheet to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's simplisafe.commsheet there's no safe like SimpliSafe.
- [19:27]
A
What do you think makes the perfect snack? Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient. Could you be more specific when it's cravenient.
- [19:35]
B
Okay.
- [19:35]
A
Like a freshly baked cookie made with.
- [19:37]
B
Real butter, available right down the street.
- [19:39]
A
At AM, pm Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at AM pm.
- [19:43]
B
I'm seeing a pattern here. Well, yeah, we're talking about what I.
- [19:46]
A
Crave which is anything from am, pm. What more could you want? Stop by AM PM where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's cravenience AM PM Too much.
- [19:56]
B
Good stuff.
- [19:57]
A
So that was from a listener. Thank you to that listener for recommending that case. We also have a listener from Australia who recommends an Australian case that we've covered before.
- [20:08]
B
So I think actually we have many listeners in Australia.
- [20:10]
A
We don't have many listeners. It's just her. That's it. No, no, I'm just kidding. We have a lot of listeners in Australia. Love you guys. Love the listeners in England too. Love all the international listeners as well as the domestic ones in the United States.
- [20:23]
B
Basically we love all the listeners.
- [20:25]
A
We do. Even, even the people who are hate listening. A download's a download. But yeah, no, we, you know, this is the case that gripped Australia. This is of course the mushroom case. Yeah, the mushroom case. The Aaron Patterson trial. Definitely a case that I think really made people. This was the case that everyone was talking about and you can understand why because it's like what the heck was that going on here? Where it just, it's very much like a Colombo episode where you know, like this kind, you know, unassuming middle aged woman poisons like her whole family and kills them with these mushrooms and you know, does this whole like elaborate setup to try to, you know, escape justice. And it's just like why. So sources for this one were the abc. Now this is a, the, you know, from Australia, not the American abc. So we're gonna do some readings of transcripts I think if that's okay with you Kevin.
- [21:28]
B
Let's do It.
- [21:29]
A
The reason why this is in the news again. She was, of course, convicted. But what's. There's been more information released since, you know, this was all adjudicated because I guess one thing if you could talk about. And obviously Australia has a different legal system than we do, so we're not. Do not claim any knowledge of Australia law or criminal proceedings. But in general, you know, we do. Our laws come from the same place. So same. Some of the same general concepts. And there's stuff that was in evidence that was not used at the trial. Can you talk about why that would be? Sometimes we get that even in, like, the Delphi case or whatnot, where people are like, why didn't they use this? What can be some reasons why stuff might look pretty bad for a suspect but not come up in trial?
- [22:17]
B
There could be a variety of reasons. Maybe it doesn't meet evidentiary standards, maybe they don't feel it's necessary because it's proven by something else. Maybe it's something that looks bad for the defendant but doesn't really prove an element of the crime.
- [22:33]
A
And here's the thing. These are. These are not decisions that are made lightly. If the prosecution just throws something in and then later on it's found to have violated the defendant's rights or maybe made it so that the trial against them was unfair, then you have to do the whole thing over again. So there's an element of appeals proofing that I imagine goes into some of this. I'm not saying that's why all of this was left out, but that's just a concept that's, you know, pretty, pretty prevalent. You don't want to. There's. There's risks and rewards that can come out of any sort of piece of evidence. And if something is. If you have a strong case and there's something even remotely close to the borderline, I would imagine a prudent prosecutor would just say, we don't need it.
- [23:18]
B
Absolutely.
- [23:19]
A
And there's strength in that. Even if people are like, that's really tantalizing. Well, it's just maybe not the right thing for trial. So there's. There's just some. Some information from witnesses. One thing I thought was interesting, they were talking about her behavior in court, you know, her crying out outside of the presence of the jury at one point, laughing with her security team. Neither of those things is that crazy to me. It's like, you know, whatever. But one witness talked about how they testified, and then they looked over at Patterson and quote, she was greasing Me off, end quote. I did not know what that meant. So I looked it up. It sounded really weird.
- [24:00]
B
Yeah, I'm not going to even make any.
- [24:01]
A
Don't even say anything. But apparently it means, like, glaring or giving, like, a dirty look that Australians tell me if I'm wrong, But, you know, I think that's what it means. But that was. I was like, what was going on in this courtroom, but that was one thing. And then there's been police interviews that have come out, and so let's do this. How about we do these kind of back and forth between police and Patterson, and these are just kind of some.
- [24:30]
B
In this transcript that you want to read. Am I police or am I Patterson?
- [24:33]
A
You're police. I'll be Patterson. And this is Patterson talking to the police about her stay in the hospital, Leongatha Hospital, where she's, you know, she's the only one at this dinner party that didn't get sick. It's, like, pretty apparent that she was lying about the, you know, being sick at all versus anything else, because she's the only one who didn't eat these death cap mushrooms that she put into her beef Wellington for these, her victims. And so they're trying to kind of drill down on, you know, this, because what was bizarre was people at the hospital were like, everyone else in your, like, dinner party is, like, deathly ill. You need to stay here. And she just bounces.
- [25:18]
B
Right.
- [25:18]
A
So. Okay, go ahead.
- [25:21]
B
So I'm. I'm the police, and I'm Patterson. We've been told that on the 31st of July, so two days after the lunch, you went to the Leongatha Hospital.
- [25:31]
A
Okay.
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B
And that you were only there for about five minutes, and then you left. Can you explain why you went there for five minutes?
- [25:39]
A
Yeah, because I just went there thinking I needed a couple of bags of saline because I was really dehydrated.
- [25:45]
B
Okay.
- [25:46]
A
And they said, we want to admit you and send you to Melbourne.
- [25:50]
B
Yeah.
- [25:50]
A
And when you've got animals at home and children who have multiple after school activities, you can't just be told to drop everything and you're off to Melbourne overnight. So I had to go home and feed the animals and pack my daughter's ballet bag.
- [26:03]
B
Yep.
- [26:04]
A
And I did that, and I went back. So what now? That's her claim about what happened. What the prosecutors have said was that she was, you know, she was fine to leave the hospital because she just knew she hadn't been poisoned. It's like suspicious behavior is guilty knowledge. And. And that she was also Freaking out because early on they figured out, oh, these people ate death cap mushrooms. That's what this is. And so she was trying to almost work out some kind of excuse where the reason this came to our attention first was because she had blamed a mysterious Asian grocer for selling her the poisonous mushrooms. And she was trying to basically work that out. So do you want to go to her lying about owning a dehydrator which was used to prepare these death Cat mushrooms?
- [27:01]
B
Okay, well, I'm skin. I will be the police.
- [27:04]
A
Yes.
- [27:05]
B
Do you own a dehydrator?
- [27:06]
A
No.
- [27:07]
B
No. All right. Okay.
- [27:09]
A
I've got manuals for lots of stuff I've collected over the years. I've had all sorts of appliances and I just keep them all in.
- [27:15]
B
Okay.
- [27:16]
A
Yeah.
- [27:17]
B
All right. When did you own a dehydrator?
- [27:21]
A
I don't know. I. I don't know. I might have had one years ago.
- [27:25]
B
Okay, what'd you use that for?
- [27:28]
A
Like, when I first got the Thermomix, I got really excited about like making everything from scratch.
- [27:34]
B
Okay.
- [27:34]
A
You know, and. Yeah, and I did a lot of, you know, like everything from scratch ingredients and I did a lot of that. So I could have had something like that. That though. Yeah. So, yeah. So that was she. She did own a dehydrator. She lied about that. And yeah, these all came out because of, you know, the, you know, the trial's over and I think the defense lost emotion to kind of keep some of this sealed, but just kind of, again, it establishes her as a liar. There's things that have come out in the media as well through some of this, that she was poisoning her estranged husband whose family she killed. And it's just, it's very disturbing because you think like, you know, it just sort of shows you, you can't really. Just because someone might seem like a mild mannered, normal, middle aged lady doesn't mean that they don't harbor some pretty horrific intentions for people. And you just can't. Sometimes there's just people like this that are just sort of ticking time bombs. I think they're not the majority, I think, of people who engage in criminal activity. I think typically you're going to find someone with a criminal history who's doing a bunch of bad stuff before they do something really wild. But there's also like stuff like this where it's just like, I don't know, like, you know, just stuff you wouldn't expect. So are we flying back to the States now?
- [28:58]
B
And we're flying back in luxury? We're not using any of your dirigibles. There's no channel involved. I spare no expense for my dear friends, the listeners.
- [29:11]
A
I'm sure they'll be very glad to.
- [29:13]
B
Know that you, you've. You've just thrown together these things at the last minute. You're very lackadaisical.
- [29:20]
A
Wait, what do you mean I'm throwing things together at the last minute?
- [29:22]
B
Why on earth would you want the listeners to go to Australia from England via the channel? That makes no sense.
- [29:28]
A
You're the one who said that. Also, that's not how you get to Australia.
- [29:32]
B
Yes, that's the whole point.
- [29:34]
A
We were in France. That's where we ended up. And then we had to take a plane to Australia. What? None of this happened?
- [29:40]
B
Gosh, you were just the unnecessary expense and time.
- [29:44]
A
You know what this is? Oh, my gosh, the amount of just. You're ridiculous. What are you doing over there?
- [29:52]
B
I've got the listeners on the Concord, which may not even exist anymore, but I've made it happen.
- [29:57]
A
You're just floating in space because this plane may not exist.
- [30:00]
B
Well, I made it happen. I pulled some strings. So we're zipping back over to Indiana for a story that's kind of like, frustrating. And if you're like me, it's going to make you, like, angry and upset, but you're not even sure really on whose behalf you should be angry and upset. Although certainly the victim's family definitely deserves our sympathy here. And my sources for this are WTHR and wrtv. And as I say, this is a frustrating case, so get ready. Often we hear these stories about arrests being announced in cold cases and it's all too easy to think, oh, that's it, that's the end of that story. Let's move on. But of course it's not, because after an arrest is made, the person who's arrest still enjoys the presumption of innocence. And the charges against them need to be proved in court. And so there was a man named Kevin Maddox who was arrested in a cold case a couple of years ago. He was charged with the murder of Chad Rouse, who was killed in kokomo, Indiana in 2006. And what happened in this instance was back in April of this year, the prosecutor announced that they were dismissing the charges. And they said, we're not dismissing the charges because there's no evidence. We're dismissing the charges because we're having a real manpower and staffing shortage. And the prosecutor cited the fact that when you look at the level of work that his office is expected to do. He really needs 24 attorneys to do it, and he has 11. And I'll be very frank. This is something we've heard from other prosecutors across Indiana, that the workload is really piling up and there's not enough people to do it. And again, to be blunt, when you don't have enough people to prosecute the cases, you're going to have some instances where prosecutors will have to make some decisions about whether or not to charge people based on whether or not they have the manpower to actually process those charges and get them through court.
- [32:37]
A
This is crazy.
- [32:39]
B
So that's very, very upsetting. We know that there are a lot of things that need to be funded by the government. Lots of great causes, lots of things that need to be funded by the government. But I would certainly suggest that justice, keeping citizens safe, these things need to be very high up on the list. So that is disappointing that he had to dismiss these charges against this person he felt was guilty of murder just because he didn't have the manpower. And I also want to make the point that a murder trial is something that really is labor intensive. You really, really need to have a lot of people working hard on it to make it happen and to get a successful result. So that happens. The charges are dismissed. You're making faces.
- [33:32]
A
I just want to. Where the heck. Maybe you. Maybe you're going to answer this, but my question is, where the heck is ipac? Where is Indiana prosecuting attorneys counsel on this?
- [33:42]
B
He. He went to IPAC and made some observations about his need for more manpower.
- [33:49]
A
They can't help them out.
- [33:52]
B
They. They basically confirmed that. IPAC says that they believe that in order to handle all the criminal cases in the state, Indiana needs about 1100 deputy prosecutors, and they currently have 660. So it's a real serious problem in this state. So charges are dismissed. They're dismissed without prejudice. What does that mean? That means if a charge is dismissed without prejudice, it means it can be refiled down the line. And so about a month or so later, they filed charges against Mr. Maddox once again. And over the last week or so, over the last few days, he was brought to trial, a jury was seated, opening arguments were delivered, and there was a brief recess, after which the prosecutor came in and said, okay, let's dismiss the case.
- [35:00]
A
What?
- [35:01]
B
Didn't really explain why, just said it was in the interests of justice. And so this time with the charges are dismissed because they were dismissed after the trial started. That means double jeopardy has attached. What is double jeopardy? So we are always very cognizant of the fact that in the criminal justice system, the state enjoys a lot of power, because the state has the power to take away your liberty if you're found guilty. The state has the power in some cases, to even execute you if you're found guilty. And so it's tremendously important to balance that as much as possible to try to level the playing field and to try to give some bricks to the defendant. And one brick that we give to the defendant is the state just gets one shot at you, because it would be tremendously unfair if the state could bring you to trial. You get acquitted, and then the prosecutor gets to say, well, maybe if I did things a little bit differently, I could get him convicted a second time and then have a second trial or a third trial. No, you don't get that. You get one shot. And they got their shot once they seated the jury and started opening statements. So any attempt to get him, this man on this murder charge is now done. And they haven't really explained is this another staffing issue or what it is, or. There was a statement made. Oh, it's in the interests of justice. So what I want to know. Well, first of all, I feel tremendously sorry for the family of the murdered man who has been really jerked around in this, to be blunt.
- [36:50]
A
Yeah. That is horror, I feel. I mean, they have been. That's horrible.
- [36:54]
B
And then obviously, you have to presume innocence before a person is convicted. But let's for a moment say, if there's a possibility that he is guilty and they bungled it by charging him too soon or starting a trial when they weren't ready. That's an outrage. If he is truly innocent, it's also outrageous that he's been charged with the murder twice and had to go through all of that stress and have his name blasted all over the media. And I don't understand, if it's truly a fact, what's in the interest of justice to dismiss the charges? That means we don't think he's guilty. Why did it take charging him twice and actually starting a trial to arrive at that determination?
- [37:39]
A
It baffles me because I'm with you. Without having seen really any of the evidence against Kevin Maddox, I don't feel like I can say, oh, yeah, they let a guilty man go, because this whole thing's been such a mess. It's like, who knows? But. But maybe he is. I don't know. Like, I'm open either way, but it's. It's a It's a disgrace. This poor guy's family. I mean this, this victim's family, I mean, like that's just. I, I don't even know. Can I make an observation?
- [38:09]
B
Yeah.
- [38:10]
A
And I certainly don't want to pick on anyone here, but you know, I think it's worth noting this the, the case of Karina McClurkin who was killed in 2016 at the age of 18. That was a situation where a man named Flint Farmer of Kokomo was sort of brought to trial and acquitted. The jury did not feel like the prosecution had done that. I've heard from people that there were issues with witnesses and their credibility against him. When, you know, that was a pretty high profile case here in Indiana. You know, that's again, the Howard county prosecutor's office. So this is not the only thing. And I'm not trying to pick on Howard County. It may not be the fault of the prosecutor or even the people in the office. It may that, it may be that they're resource strapped or, you know, whatever. But it, this is not. You don't really. It's not like prosecutors always win. Right. But prosecutors are always expected to, to bring the cases that they think are winnable. They have, they, unlike defense attorneys, have the privilege of selecting what they're charging. And therefore you kind of, you know, again, there's always going to be stuff people lose or something that you should have won, but maybe the jury was just weird or whatever. So I'm not trying to pick on them. But it's interesting that it's the same county that had that issue with kind of losing that high profile click case and now you're seeing whatever the heck. I mean, this seems much worse than that because, you know, you could see at least they got it to trial or whatever, but here it's like, geez. And they don't know what exactly fell apart in the middle of trial.
- [40:02]
B
It doesn't. He made a statement which didn't really explain much. So we're not going to say anything else. So it's confusing to me because if there really were deficiencies in the case, you think they would have been aware of that prior to delivering opening statements and seating a jury?
- [40:19]
A
Yeah. And I would be curious, like, was it something like the defense attorneys brought something forward of like, look, he's innocent, you guys don't have a case. And they're like, yeah, let's just be done. That would be not ideal, but certainly.
- [40:32]
B
At least it would not be ideal in the sense that he never should have been Rocked. Never should have been charged.
- [40:37]
A
Charged. He never should have been charged. And that's. That's tragic for him. But if that's the case, then that makes me feel better because it's like, at least they didn't let a murderer walk, basically. But if it's a situation where, I don't know, it's just like, more of this. We don't have enough people. I just. I don't understand. And, like, you know, again, like, we pay taxes. You get what you pay for on some level. Right. So, I mean, like, what's going on in Howard County? Like, if they're not funding enough people to do the job, it's very necessary. There should be adequate funding for prosecutors. There should be adequate funding for public defenders. Those two things are very important as far as protecting the society and ensuring that criminals aren't running around, but also in terms of protecting people's rights and ensuring that people are adequately defended when they're facing these things. So two sides of the same coin, both very important.
- [41:25]
B
Yeah. So, yeah. It's just a frustrating story.
- [41:29]
A
Yes.
- [41:32]
B
Shall we move on to.
- [41:34]
A
Oh, if anyone has any details about it, let us know.
- [41:36]
B
By the way, it feels like there's probably an explanation. There's probably some reason that we just don't know that would enable some of this to make more sense.
- [41:44]
A
Yeah. So if you got the deets, we will keep you anonymous. But we want to know the deets. Yes. Very formal terms. Now, I think you have a story about a dog.
- [41:59]
B
Yes. This takes place in Alabama. Is that they have sports teams there.
- [42:07]
A
What are you talking about?
- [42:08]
B
I was gonna say sooner, but that's not Oklahoma. That's Oklahoma.
- [42:11]
A
That's Oklahoma.
- [42:12]
B
That's not Alabama. No, but God bless Alabama. They have their.
- [42:18]
A
Alabama's nickname is the. Oh, the.
- [42:22]
B
Well, what?
- [42:23]
A
The Cotton State.
- [42:25]
B
The Cotton State.
- [42:26]
A
And unfortunately, the Heart of Dixie and Roll Tide.
- [42:29]
B
Is that something?
- [42:30]
A
Yeah.
- [42:30]
B
See, I know what I'm talking about.
- [42:32]
A
For some reason, Yellowhammer State. I don't even know what that refers to.
- [42:35]
B
For some time, for some reason, when I think of Alabama, I think of people loving their teams down there. I don't know why. Alabama has a lot of other great things about it, but that's what I think of. For some reason, I think of. They love their sports, but I don't remember what the sports are.
- [42:51]
A
You don't know what the sports are?
- [42:52]
B
Well, probably football, right?
- [42:55]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, Roll Tide. Crimson Tide. Right. That's. I'm not. I'm not a football person. Okay, so the yellow hammer is a state bird. A very cute state bird. Oh, my gosh, it's adorable. He's just hanging around. He's a woodpecker. Okay, I'm sure.
- [43:16]
B
I'm sure it's a great bird. It also sounds like the name of, like, a comic book hero.
- [43:20]
A
Oh, yellowhammer. Yeah, no, it's good. It's. I. I dig that. And yeah, I've never been to Alabama, but I'd love to check it out.
- [43:31]
B
Do they have, like, a space museum there?
- [43:34]
A
That sounds right. I'm not. I'm not really sure. Oh, yeah, they. Oh. Because the Marshall Space Flight center was in Huntsville.
- [43:42]
B
So once again, we're doing research live on the air. It is about things that are totally irrelevant to the program. See, we had none of this in our Lost episode. Our lost 10 minutes.
- [43:52]
A
Yeah, it was all very, very precise. That was the golden age.
- [43:57]
B
It's really. Tragedy is lost. I imagine that in centuries to come after the nuclear apocalypse and civilization is reborn, somehow somebody will be out walking around on the barren landscapes and wander into a cave. And inside the cave, they were five. That lost 10 minutes.
- [44:18]
A
Are you doing, like, Canticle for Lebowitz with the murder sheet?
- [44:23]
B
I was doing the Dead Sea Scrolls.
- [44:24]
A
Oh, okay. Well, I mean, the whole nuclear apocalypse.
- [44:31]
B
But we digress.
- [44:31]
A
Anyways, if anyone wants a good sci fi read, Canticle for Leibowitz is one of my favorite books ever.
- [44:40]
B
I got this from People magazine. So we've talked about this before on the program. I just got to mention it here at the top. There is this bizarre show called Inspector rex. Go to YouTube and look up the opening credits to one of the early seasons of Inspector Rex. It looks like something out of 30 rock. It looks like it does. It's very cheaply done. And it's kind of, oh, look, this dog sure does like taking a muffin from somebody. And oh, look, here's a cool guy playing pool.
- [45:16]
A
Remember, there's like, doesn't he, like, steal one of the cops donuts or something?
- [45:20]
B
Yeah, he likes the guy's muffin. He grabs the muffins. A cool guy's playing pool. And hey, it's Inspector Rex. And it's about a crime fighting detective dog. And it sounds like it's a kid show. And they do have, like, kids show moments. Like, oh, look, the dog will go out on the street and buy some donuts and coffee for its owner and return it to his house before he wakes up. That sounds like something out of Scooby Doo, frankly. But then, like, five Minutes later, there's child molestation, there's murder.
- [45:49]
A
It's really horrible stuff.
- [45:50]
B
One of the dog's human partners at one point gets. Gets killed. And the dog is depressed and might have to be put down because he's so sad and not snapping out of it. So it's not a kid show. I don't know what it is.
- [46:02]
A
It's bizarre. I love it. It's Austrian and. Yeah, it's really the weirdest thing I've ever seen, but I love it so much.
- [46:11]
B
If I gave my dog money to go out and buy me a donut at a neighborhood store, I'd never see my dog again.
- [46:17]
A
No, she'd go out and gamble, probably.
- [46:19]
B
Yeah. She'd bet it on the ponies.
- [46:20]
A
Lanolin would go out and do debauchery with that money. There's no question about it. She wouldn't. She'd be committing the crimes. We'd have to bring in Inspector Rex to rein her in. But, yeah, no, I. This. It's very sad because sometimes you will come to me and say, oh, wouldn't it be cool if we eventually got a German shepherd who could go get us treats or at the store? And it's like, that's not how dogs work. Kevin. Kevin, that's not a real show. The dog's not gonna help us solve crimes. But I may be swallowing my words here, because you may have found something that indicates otherwise.
- [46:56]
B
So this, again, is the great state of Alabama. Crimson Tide. Roll Tide.
- [47:02]
A
Okay, well, I thought you were trying to take a more neutral approach to the sports. Would you love your sports teams?
- [47:09]
B
Can't we celebrate each team individually?
- [47:11]
A
So you celebrate all the teams?
- [47:13]
B
Yeah. So whoever's playing Alabama, they're great teams, too, okay? Everybody's great. Everybody deserves their moment in the sun.
- [47:19]
A
That's very nice of you.
- [47:23]
B
So last August, this couple. Their last name, at least in this account, isn't given. They're outside and they see their dog playing with something. And we've all seen our dogs playing with things, maybe things they shouldn't be playing with. In this case, the husband says, well, that doesn't look right because it looked like a skull. And they called the police. And it turns out it is indeed a human skull with a bullet hole in it. Jeez. Okay, a DNA profile is done. Doesn't match anybody. Okay. Interesting. Their house apparently is near some woods. So a few months pass, and then in December, their dog Chikaran comes back, and this time it is carrying a human tibia. And DNA testing reveals that it Belongs to the same person as the skull. So this dog has found two bones of one person. Okay, that's pretty interesting.
- [48:39]
A
Yeah.
- [48:40]
B
So then in April, they find the dog in their yard playing with a femur. What is this dog? So this. This. This is also linked to the same victim.
- [48:54]
A
Good Lord.
- [48:55]
B
A search of the property is done, and a human mandible is discovered, which also belongs to the same victim.
- [49:03]
A
What is this? Vincent from Lost. That was. That was a dog in Lost who found, like, a arm or something.
- [49:09]
B
So then on August 9th of this year, the dog brings them another bone from a body, and testing is being done. And so now. Probably should have been done earlier, but now investigators have put a tracking device on the dog. So if the dog goes into the woods, we're going to know exactly where the dog is, and maybe we can find some more of these. These body parts. The dog's owner says the whole thing has been upsetting.
- [49:43]
A
Yeah, I imagine.
- [49:45]
B
I think it would be upsetting, like.
- [49:46]
A
Living right next to some kind of dumping ground.
- [49:48]
B
And sometimes people say, oh, it's cool. You have, like, a detective dog. And then apparently there are other people saying, well, maybe you're the killer.
- [49:59]
A
Wow. Okay. That sucks.
- [50:00]
B
So it's been an interesting experience for them, but, yeah, I feel bad for that family.
- [50:07]
A
Gosh, that's a lot to deal with. Is the dog now teamed up with some sort of gruff detective who lost their canine partner and never got over it and has to learn to love dogs again?
- [50:18]
B
Are you pitching an Inspector Rex situation for America?
- [50:21]
A
I think America needs a sense, because didn't they, like. Didn't it start in Austria and then they moved to Italy and then. But I mean, it's wide open. I think there's a Canadian one, too, for some reason. I may be just making that up, but come on, we need to. We need to jump on this trip.
- [50:36]
B
Watch the opening credits of.
- [50:38]
A
Watch the opening credits.
- [50:38]
B
The early season.
- [50:39]
A
It's the. It's the funniest thing. They're all, like, in front of, like, a Sears photo shoot backdrop. And. And. And, like, they're, like, making ridiculous faces and the dog's jumping around. At one point, the dog jumps on a guy so he doesn't get shot. Remember that?
- [50:54]
B
I do.
- [50:55]
A
It's. It. It doesn't look real. It looks like. But it also sounds like something we're making up.
- [51:00]
B
It sounds like something we're making up. And all sorts of odd decisions are made. As we mentioned, there's this.
- [51:05]
A
The tonal.
- [51:06]
B
There's one guy. You see him in the opening credits, he seems kind of stiff and humorless and he's like eating a donut. And the dog comes and grabs the donut. Ha, ha ha. Let's all enjoy a good laugh at this guy's expense. Okay. Okay. That's a character, that's a supporting character. Good contrast with the dog. And that's the guy they pick and say, oh, this guy needs a spinoff. They give that guy his own show.
- [51:29]
A
Didn't last very long.
- [51:31]
B
No. What a shock.
- [51:32]
A
Yeah, we really got into Inspector Rex in a big way like a while ago. And we kind of come off it because it just got. It just kind of got depressed because you'd be like, haha. Oh look, the dog's like, you know, get it. You know, going out and buying the newspaper. And then it'd be like, you know, all the victims were sexually assaulted. And you're like, what the. I just want to have a fun mystery with a dog. It's bleak, man. Like, I don't. It's too real somehow. Despite being about a dog solving mysteries.
- [52:00]
B
Yeah, I remember we got into the show like around October of some year or maybe November. And so then you said, oh, this is great. I'm gonna buy Kevin a stuffed Rex toy for Christmas. But by the time Christmas came around, we were completely off the show and seeing the Inspector Rex toy was this traumatic flashback.
- [52:20]
A
But it still haunts us. I mean, definitely still haunts us. All right, well, I. I hope the dog does find, you know, like, I hope they find all the stuff that they need to find and then that's it for that family. So I don't have to deal with it. With it anymore. But good for the dog. I mean, he's probably solving some mysteries here.
- [52:37]
B
Are you going to now do your promotional announcements?
- [52:40]
A
My what?
- [52:42]
B
And then perhaps conclude with a humorous anecdote.
- [52:44]
A
I don't have a humorous anecdote. So I guess we are selling a book called Shadow of the Bridge and that's something where, you know, you can just buy it wherever you buy books. We also have a cool thing where we're actually signing book plates because we're going to do a lot of events in and around Indiana and you know, that's just going to be something where. Yeah, just kind of, I guess, come to us. Go email us@murdersheetmail.com if you're not in our Facebook group and we will send you the link to fill out to get a book plate. Everyone who does a pre order is getting one. Amazon people are getting them audiobook people are getting them. Ebook people are getting them. Where are you going to put them if you have an audiobook or ebook? I don't know.
- [53:29]
B
That's up to you.
- [53:29]
A
That's up to you.
- [53:30]
B
That's between you and your God.
- [53:31]
A
Yes. We're not going to. We're not going to come into your house and tell you what to do. So. But you can still get them. Fill them out and we'll, you know, we'll sign in, we'll send that to you. And people who are doing that with Patreon might get a little extra thing from us, which will be cool. And so, yeah, I'm excited. I'm really excited. I hope people like the book creators or people who have a book club who might want us to come speak to them. Emailmail.com that, you know, that would be, you know, just. We, we're happy to come and talk. And this is a case, the Delphi case that we wrote about, we feel very passionately about. And I feel like we were talking about this recently, Kevin, but I, I want to talk about it with people to spread the truth and to reclaim this case for Abby and Libby and center it where it needs to be, which is these two girls who solved their own case. So that is something I'm gonna. We're willing to come and talk to people about that and. Yeah, I guess. Is there anything else? We have. Oh, we have a. We have merch. So this is. We have the merch store at themurder sheet. Dashery.com got some fun designs about ringing a bell. We got a mug. We got me being a serial thief and doing heists. We have a Murder Sheet People T shirt, which is fun. And we also. So that's where you can get a lot of different designs and a lot of different sizes. But we also have murder sheetshop.com too. That's kind of our old store where we still have some stock left and are kind of selling that. But, you know, either one, either one's.
- [55:08]
B
Good, but it's still freshest. Tomorrow's newspaper. Don't. Don't make it sound like it's.
- [55:13]
A
No, I'm just saying we wanted to. We wanted to expand our sizes and offerings, so that's why we went with Dashery. But we still have some other stuff. Yeah, so I think those are the big things. Oh, we have a. We have, we have events coming up. October 3rd. We're going to be in Franklin.
- [55:29]
B
Also, what about our Westfield event, August 20th?
- [55:33]
A
Not. Yeah, August 26th is the day the book Comes out. We will be doing a ticketed event at Westfield. It's gonna be really cool. We'll include links to that in our social media sites. And maybe our website, perhaps, or probably mostly social media.
- [55:47]
B
What will we be doing on August 30th?
- [55:48]
A
We're going to the Delphi Biscuit Shop. It's gonna be awesome. We're gonna sign biscuits. You don't need a ticket for that one.
- [55:53]
B
You said we're sign biscuits.
- [55:54]
A
No, we're not gonna. Oh, my God.
- [55:55]
B
That's what you just said.
- [55:56]
A
I'm literally losing my mind. Kevin, putting out a book is crazy.
- [56:00]
B
No biscuits will be signed. That would be a good. They wouldn't even allow it because that would get them in trouble with the Board of Health.
- [56:07]
A
I feel like we're gonna get kicked out now.
- [56:10]
B
You just blew it.
- [56:11]
A
Blew it.
- [56:12]
B
Because they have very high standards there.
- [56:14]
A
We're not gonna sign. We're gonna sign stuff at the biscuit shop.
- [56:17]
B
Yes.
- [56:17]
A
Gosh.
- [56:18]
B
Nothing edible will be signed.
- [56:20]
A
Oh, my God.
- [56:22]
B
Because that would be inappropriate.
- [56:23]
A
I know.
- [56:26]
B
Oh, man.
- [56:29]
A
Good up. It's been a long couple months.
- [56:33]
B
It's been a long couple years.
- [56:39]
A
Okay. Well, anything else?
- [56:42]
B
You have a humorous anecdote?
- [56:44]
A
No, I don't have a humorous anecdote. Do you have a humorous anecdote?
- [56:52]
B
I think I told one about the boat last week.
- [56:55]
A
We don't need to end on an anecdote. We let. We don't. Those are, like, our two anecdotes. We don't need to. Like, we have Far high.
- [57:01]
B
We have a big bag overflowing with anecdotes. You can just reach in and pull one out.
- [57:07]
A
I don't feel I do. Maybe you do. In all of your strange interactions with.
- [57:13]
B
People, did you tell your Howard Schultz story on the program?
- [57:17]
A
I'm not going to tell my Howard Schultz story on the. That was so deeply embarrassing. God, why would. Why would you do this to me? So why would you do this to me? Like, why. Why are you doing that? Well, you. You said it, so now I have to. Oh, you're so annoying. So Howard Schultz was the CEO of Starbucks. He may have come back. I don't really follow this anymore, But I was a retail reporter, so they were having an event where he was going to talk, and they were like, anya, go and cover this for, you know, the retail desk. I may have been still writing about, like, more careers back then. So I go and PR person. You know, we're me and. Me and the social media manager who go. They're like, oh, you're press. Okay, we're going to sit you down right here. They kick these women out of their seats. I'm saying, like, you don't have to do that. Like, you know, we'll just sit in the back. Like, it's like, you know, like, stop. And then, oh, no, no, no. You can sit here. And we're. It's just like, oh, this is already so awkward. And, you know, I can't deal with it, so I'm just like, whatever. So we sit down. Super awkward. And then Howard Schultz gets up, and he calls up the women who this woman had so, like, meanly kicked out of their seats, and they're the ones being honored. I feel so bad. Like, this. These women are doing, like, this nice nonprofit work or whatever. And, like, I did. Oh, my God. It was just like, I. I was like, I can't. I can't, like, live in. In society when stuff like this is happening. It's just so awkward. I can't even. I mean, it was just like, this was like, Even though I. We didn't ask to have them kicked out, and I was even saying, like, no, just let them sit there. We'll just sit in the back. But this, like, PR lady was so aggressive, and so it was so awkward. I just felt like I still.
- [59:03]
B
That's a charming little story.
- [59:05]
A
It's not a charming story.
- [59:06]
B
Maybe the cheat sheet should be. Have some of that welcome Back Cotter energy where, like, each episode ends with, like, a. Each episode ends with, like, a little anecdote, like, a little joke.
- [59:17]
A
I don't like, welcome Back, Cotter. Sorry for all the Cotter Heads out there.
- [59:21]
B
You've just answered alienated.
- [59:22]
A
Our entire, entire audience is logging off. We're gonna get so much hate mail.
- [59:26]
B
About this because that's when our show took off, when people started talking about it on the Cotter message board.
- [59:30]
A
Yeah, the Cotter heads. I'm sorry, guys. I was just kidding. Or was it. Yeah, I, I. Well, I. I actually can't really hate the show. I just don't like the theme song. It would always come up on, I guess after, like, my mom and I would, like, watch Hogan's Heroes on me tv, and then I think welcome Back Cotter would come on, and I just don't like that theme song. So I'd just be like, I don't. I don't want any part of this.
- [59:51]
B
It's a good tune.
- [59:53]
A
No, I don't care for it. Are you gonna sing it for us? No, let's just get out of here. Before that starts hitting the button. All right, bye, everyone.
- [60:01]
B
Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us@murdersheetmail.com if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.
- [60:21]
A
If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com murdersheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www. Buymeacoffee.com murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.
- [60:45]
B
Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the web@kevintg.com if you're looking to talk with.
- [60:56]
A
Other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.
- [61:17]
B
You know, Anya, we are in this true crime space. It's such a difficult place to be in sometimes. And one of the reasons is because you're talking about cases that people have a real emotional involvement in. And so if you reach a conclusion that some people don't like online, they're going to, like, start attacking you and even threatening you.
- [61:37]
A
Yes.
- [61:37]
B
And I know when that first started happening to us, it was really, really unset, settling and difficult. And I know one thing that really helped us feel better and safer to continue on with the show was SimpliSafe.
- [61:52]
A
SimpliSafe has been a company we've trusted for years. We've used them for years to protect our home. And one of the reasons is they just give us that peace of mind. As Kevin said, we're no strangers to controversy. And sometimes that can mean getting threats or getting basically hit veiled threats where people say they're going to come hurt you because they disagree with what you're saying about a case. And so with Simplisafe, we're able to kind of keep the murder sheet train chugging along and not worry about that too much because we know that they are so proactive about how they keep homes secure. This is a company, I mean, their new active guard outdoor protection that's there to stop break ins before they happen. They're not just letting you know about, oh, this bad thing happened, they're trying to prevent it from even happening so you don't have to go through that trauma. They have live monitoring agents on hand 24, 7 to possibly detect suspicious activity around the property. They have cameras. And also one thing I like about them is they're flexible. They know that different people have different needs. They know that if you're a renter, you can't necessarily set up the same amount of equipment and it can't be on the walls permanently as you could do if you're a homeowner. So they're great for renters. They're great for homeowners. No contracts, no hidden fees. Visit simplisafe.com msheet to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's simplisafe.commsheet there's no safe like Simplisafe. We're obsessed with our quince pieces. Is that fair to say?
- [63:18]
B
That's fair to say.
- [63:19]
A
What is quints?
- [63:20]
B
Quint's is a company. It lets you get really high quality clothing for very affordable prices.
- [63:26]
A
They do that because they basically cut out the middleman. You're just getting cut him right out. Yeah, they're getting it from the artisans. They're giving it to you. It's wonderful. It's going to be 50 to 80% less than those of their competitors. And you're just going to get some wonderful things. We recently went shopping to get some summer styles. We'd previously gotten some winter styles, but we wanted to update. So we went on quints and we both got something. Let's talk about what we got. I got this wonderful a hundred percent European linen dress. It's a button front dress and it's in blue chambry stripe. I love this dress. I'm picky about dresses because, like, I feel like I'm have a weird shaped body and sometimes they cut me off in a weird way. This one just fits like a dream. I love the way it fits. It is very much a classic sort of style. So I'm not worried about it going out of style in like two minutes and then I'm looking foolish. It just looks like something I can wear for years and years. I know I'm going to be wearing this dress a lot this summer.
- [64:21]
B
I got a great shirt. I can't paint word pictures like you do, but I'm very happy with the shirt. I've gotten compliments on the shirt. It's a comfortable shirt.
- [64:30]
A
For anyone who is interested in learning more about the products that we purchased, he got a hundred percent European linen utility shirt in martini olive. So I think it looks really cute. I think that you look very cute in it. So I love it.
- [64:44]
B
And keep watching our Facebook page because we will probably, if I convince her, take a picture of Anya wearing her dress and her beret.
- [64:53]
A
Oh, I got a beret too, because Kevin insists on me buying new hats. So I got a little blue beret. And yeah, I just really Quince is one of those brands. I just love working with them because it's just stuff that I love to kind of come back to and keep buying because I love what they're doing, I love how ethical they are and I know that they're going to get me quality pieces fast. And with their wonderful return policy, you can try on different things, make sure the sizing's right for you. And it's just a great deal for Murder Sheet listeners. So give your summer closet an upgrade with quints. Go to quince.commsheet for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Quinc to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.commsheet.