B (3:16)

Now, you, of course, are well known as a lover of trains, the cane train. Do you need, like, special tracks for the train? If you're going all the way up to Alaska, are you going to be taking, like, a boat up there? What do you think we should do?

A (3:32)

I mean, we're going to have to make a deal with Canada probably to get up there. I can't. I can't make a train over the water.

B (3:38)

So can the train tracks go through the rugged terrain of Alaska?

A (3:44)

I guess we're going to find out. What is this nonsense? What is this? What is this nonsense? I have.

B (3:52)

We're about to record the episode and it'd be disappointing.

A (3:54)

We're recording it right now.

B (3:55)

It would be disastrous if we start and then, like, the train tracks. Oh, Kevin thought we could get to Alaska on the train and we can't. That'd be embarrassing in the middle of the episode to say, we can't do it, folks.

B (4:09)

Be humiliated.

A (4:09)

I don't think you know how this works. I'm really concerned about you.

A (4:16)

Oh, gosh. Shall we proceed onward and have we.

B (4:20)

Mentioned my birthday is coming up?

A (4:24)

Listeners have the rare opportunity to hang out with Kevin on his birthday. And we'll get into that at the end after one of our famous anecdotes. Bringing those back. Bringing back that old chestnut. That's how things are going. All right, shall we go?

B (4:40)

Okay.

A (4:41)

My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.

B (4:44)

And I'm Kevin Greenlee, an attorney.

A (4:46)

And this is the Murder Sheet.

B (4:48)

We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're the Murder Sheet.

A (4:56)

And this is the Cheat Sheet Elvis and Expecting.

A (5:17)

Sam.

B (5:44)

And I'd like to start by saying I'm so far out of the loop because I'm thinking about my birthday. I didn't even know we were doing an act out. And also, I don't know what order we're doing these cases in?

A (5:54)

No, we didn't really plan this one very effectively. I think we should start with Alaska.

B (5:58)

So start with Alaska. Then.

B (6:02)

You do your two cases.

A (6:04)

That's right.

B (6:04)

And then I jump back and bring us home with Elvis.

A (6:08)

That's right.

B (6:09)

That's your plan?

A (6:10)

Do a final tour, final send off.

B (6:13)

Listeners are getting a glimpse behind the scenes because of our kind of nonsense, because of my birthday coming up.

A (6:20)

We're so distracted by your birthday celebrations, your week long birthday celebrations, which I just want to add, the other day, this is, this is what I'm. This is what, this is how my week's going. The other day you turned to me and said, you know, I don't want ravioli. It's my birthday, sir. It was not your birthday. Your birthday's on Saturday.

B (6:39)

It was close enough.

A (6:40)

It's his birthday week celebration.

B (6:42)

So it's like, no ravioli week.

A (6:44)

We're going all out all week.

B (6:46)

No ravioli.

A (6:47)

No ravioli. We had to have tacos. So it was great.

B (6:51)

We can have ravioli on your birthday, as we should.

A (6:54)

Oh, is, is that so interesting? Very interesting. I'll make a note of that. So let's go to Alaska.

B (7:00)

Let's go to Alaska. My source for this is the Alaska Beacon, as well as a decision from the Alaska Court of Appeals. And I, I thought the case is interesting because it brings up.

B (7:15)

A point, the sort of thing that lawyers argue about legal analysis issues. The sort of thing that if a layperson hears, they might think, oh, this automatically should get a new trial. And lawyers might have a different perspective. So this goes back to a case all the way back in the mid-90s. A 17 year old named Brian hall got into a confrontation with two men in Anchorage, Alaska, Mickey Dinsmore and Stanley Honeycutt. And the gist of what occurred is they were in some area where they're all in cars, like a parking area or some what have you. There is some sort of a confrontation between some of these guys, at which point they kind of retreat to their separate corners, get back into their cars. And Mr. Hall says a woman who had been talking with the. Mr. Dinsmore and Mr. Honeycutt gave him the information, oh, they have a gun and they might shoot you. At which point Mr. Dinsmore and Mr. Hunnicutt, they're in a car. They pull up to Mr. Hall in his car, say something to the effect of, we don't want to fight with you. Here's a beer, and extend a beer bottle to him. At which points he shoots them and kills them. And so that was the case. As was presented, he was convicted and he was sentenced to 159 years in prison.

A (8:50)

Oh, wow.

B (8:52)

Pretty long sentence.

A (8:53)

It's a hefty sentence.

B (8:55)

So what has subsequently occurred is this woman who supposedly told him, oh, you need to be on the alert because they have a gun and they might shoot you. I misspoke earlier at the trial, she said, no, I didn't say that.

A (9:11)

Okay. So that was something where she was like, that would have possibly given some, I guess, credence to a possible self defense.

B (9:19)

Yeah. So pardon me, I apologize for not making that clear. She said, no, I didn't say that. And now she's saying, yes, I did say that.

A (9:28)

Okay.

B (9:28)

And so the question is, is that enough to have changed the verdict? Because that's the standard.

B (9:39)

New evidence can only get you a new trial. If that new evidence would likely have produced a new verdict and would have changed the conviction to an acquittal. And I'm curious, based on what I've told you, what's your opinion?

A (9:59)

Without knowing, like what the statute of self defense would be in Alaska, it's a little bit hard for me to say because it's a situation where I guess a lot of self defense, I think, goes to whether someone is acting reasonably, has a reasonable fear. Like if I go out and someone just startles me because they're just walking their dog on the street, you know, I, I don't have the right to just shoot them dead, you know, oh, they might have come, been coming to kill me. I have no reason to believe that. Why would, you know, I, that somebody saying, oh, this person has a gun on you and they're coming for you. I don't know, maybe that does make something a little bit more reasonable. So, yeah, I think it could, I think it could be an important statement and an important witness at a trial. I think it could be important. I guess I just. Without knowing all of the facts of what happened, it's hard to say, but I think for me, I would be open minded to it being pretty important.

B (10:57)

Well, the judges said essentially, yeah, it might go to his state of mind. But when we look at the other facts, including the fact that as I mentioned, that at the time of the killings, the incident was pretty much over, and they come up to him and they extend a beer bottle to him and what is pretty obviously a beer bottle, then that certainly in and of itself is pretty patently unreasonable. Oh, that guy's offering me a bottle. I Better kill him, you know.

A (11:30)

Yeah.

B (11:31)

So they felt, no, this is not enough to get a new trial. Alaska, though, is one of those states which has created a process where people who got really, really long sentences when they were juveniles are getting an opportunity to be re sentenced.

A (11:49)

Okay.

B (11:50)

And the judge who wrote this opinion noted that this additional information that this witness has come forward with can certainly be considered in a potential resentencing. 159 years. Long time.

A (12:05)

And he was how old when he was sentenced?

B (12:07)

17.

A (12:08)

Yeah, that, that does feel, I mean, like, okay, when I look at this stuff, I mean, obviously it's horrific. Any situation where you have a loss of life, it's unacceptable. And someone, Even if they're 17, I think should be held accountable for their actions. I just, that's what I personally believe. I recognize that we know more now with brain science that they're still under construction up there with, you know, with kids right into your mid-20s. But at the same time, like, I still think that's old enough to know right from wrong and know that shooting people is, is not a good thing to do. But at the same time, I could see someone who made a bad choice in that situation being rehabilitated in certain instances. I don't know this person or this situation, but I have to be open minded to those possibilities. And I think, you know, it can be appropriate if someone does not pose a threat to society and if someone is remorseful for what happened and if someone has worked to improve themselves while incarcerated, I think those are situations where I would be comfortable for, you know, that being reevaluated and maybe this person being given another chance in society. There's certain crimes where I wouldn't say that. I think a lot of sexually motivated stuff, I just can't get on board with that, to be honest. But things where it's like a bad choice in a heated situation, I'm more comfortable with saying that needn't necessarily keep a person in prison for life in every situation. But again, maybe there's stuff lurking in this case that I'm not aware of that's horrifying. And like in that case, you know, I retract it.

B (13:42)

Yeah, I don't think there is. And I think, you know, I initially misspoke and said that this woman offered the testimony at the trial, that she said this, that she said that these guys had a gun when she actually offered the opposite testimony. But I think even if she had offered that testimony, it's hard for me to imagine a situation where if someone is handing me a bottle, a beer bottle by the neck. And so the big round part of the bottle is what is being offered to this person. And the tone is really calm. It's hard for me to justify thinking, oh, that must be a gun. I'm in deadly danger.

A (14:23)

Here's one thing that does give me some pause, and it has nothing really to do with the facts of the case and more of just how I feel about some of this stuff. One note in here is that the. This witness who, you know, is. Her story seems to be changing. Was interviewed by a defense investigator, which makes sense. I mean, who else is going to interview her about this? But at the same time, I don't. I think I've seen a lot of cases where defense investigators can get pretty unscrupulous. I'm certainly not casting any aspersions on this specific one. I don't even know who it is. And certainly, I'm sure a lot of them are very ethical and reputable and they're just trying to get to the truth. But at the same time, I've seen a lot where it's like, okay, really? I mean, like, look what they did to Helena Stokely in the Jeffrey McDonald case. You know, you can. You can. You have situations where a vulnerable person is sort of dragged into something and manipulated into giving information that would be positive for a person incarcerated. That does happen. So, you know, as long as the. The methods and techniques used in that interview were solid, I think that's something that's fine. But I just, I. I do tend to get a little bit suspicious when some sometimes, you know, like, I just. There's not a lot of. I don't know, like, oversight with some of this. Like, police at this point have rules that dictate their behavior. But I feel like it's kind of the wild west out there with a lot of defense investigators.

B (15:51)

Yeah. Ver this stage of our existence on this planet, much of police interactions with witnesses are being recorded.

A (16:01)

Yes.

B (16:02)

And that's not happening clearly with defense investigators.

A (16:05)

And also, there's a big difference for me from someone just, like, talking about. Just in their living room or, you know, shooting the breeze or maybe trying to tell someone what they want to hear. And someone making a sworn statement in court.

B (16:16)

Yeah.

A (16:16)

Where they're going to be held accountable for perjury if they lie. So I guess, you know, and that. That actually doesn't even require a defense investigator to be problematic. I just hold those different statements like they're. They have different weights. And certainly someone changing their story is going to raise my hackles as well. But personally, when I look at this, I'm a little surprised that Alaska did not go ahead and possibly go for a new trial just based on what you've described to me, because I do feel like that is important context. If someone's like, these people have a gun, that changes the situation.

B (16:52)

Especially if you've already been drinking or something. Maybe you're not thinking clearly. Is that what you're.

A (16:57)

Yeah, and I'm just also like, I'm also surprised that he got such a heavy sentence, I guess. I mean, again, it's horrible what he did, but yeah, I wonder if there were like aggravating factors that we're not aware of.

B (17:09)

Yeah, I find that 159 year sentence to a 17 year old kid to be more than a little surprising.

A (17:16)

Yeah, I don't know about you, Kevin, but I'm always getting those irritating spam calls.

B (17:21)

It is so annoying.

A (17:22)

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A (20:31)

Hey, this is Sarah. Look, I'm standing out front of a.m. p.m. Right now and well, you're sweet and all, but I found something more fulfilling, even kind of cheesy. But I like it. Sure you met some of my dietary needs, but they've just got it all. So farewell oatmeal. So long you strange soggy.

B (20:49)

Break up with bland breakfast and taste AM PM's bacon, egg and cheese biscuit.

A (20:53)

Made with cage free eggs, smoked bacon and melty cheese on a buttery biscuit.

B (20:57)

AM P M. Too much good stuff.

A (21:00)

But again, there might be stuff that we're not even aware of. So I don't want to just be like oh, you know, surface level analysis and then drawing huge conclusions from that is not something that you know has benefited true crime, although it is rampant. And certainly I know in Delphi, when people just make assumptions based on limited information and then come up with a big conclusion on that, then it makes me want to beat my head against a wall. So I don't want to do that here. But just my initial glance at this, I do have some concerns.

B (21:30)

Certainly it's close to the line. I think I have to side at the end with the judge because I don't believe that had she offered that testimony, that it is highly probable that he would have gotten an acquittal. And that's what the standard is.

A (21:46)

Right. Cause they could still look at this whole how things processed and said. Like that doesn't, you know, that doesn't excuse what you did. I understand that. But, you know, he's so. He was so young at the time that it does make me uncomfortable with the sentence.

B (21:59)

I'm very uncomfortable with the sentence. Yeah, that seems excessive.

A (22:05)

So shall we go southward and eastward to some of my states?

B (22:12)

Yeah, you've got two states. I don't know the cases, but they're side by. Not side by side. I don't know my maps.

B (22:20)

I know mottos.

A (22:23)

You're a motto man.

B (22:24)

I don't know maps.

A (22:27)

Yeah, these are not.

B (22:27)

I mean, they're across Michigan and Illinois.

A (22:29)

I guess they're technically kind of across the lake from each other, but a little bit, you know, but at least in one portion.

B (22:36)

So they're like sea buddies.

A (22:37)

They're sea. It's not a sea. It's a lake.

B (22:40)

Lake lad.

A (22:41)

Inner ocean Lake lads. Everyone from Illinois and Michigan listening to this is just. Is just turning it off right now.

B (22:51)

Lake lads and lake ladies. I don't want to be sexy.

A (22:55)

Thank you for being gender neutral about it. Strange man. So I'll do the more. I mean, they're both bad, but in one, two people died, and in the other, only one person was shot, but no one died. So I'm gonna do the horrifying one first and get that over with. Guys, as. As just as. You know, I. I have. I personally, when I'm listening to true crime, the things that really bother me, like, on a really. All of it bothers me. I mean, it's. It's all horrible. And. And human life is sacred, in my opinion. And I don't anyone getting murdered. I don't care if you're like a drug dealer or whatever. Like, you don't deserve to get murdered. It's horrible. It's a waste of human life, and it's terrible. Stories about kids getting murdered, stories about babies and pregnant women getting murdered really bother me. Like, on a visceral level, I think.

B (23:49)

The same is true for me. These are the ones that give me nightmares.

A (23:53)

Yeah, they give me nightmares too. So this one's probably gonna give me nightmares. And I would just encourage everybody, you know, skip ahead a few minutes if you don't want to know about this. It's not a weakness on your part. Just at. At different times in my life, you know, like, stuff like this can kind of ruin my day. And I would just, you know, be gentle on yourself and don't, you know, don't feel like you have to listen to every horrifying thing that happens, especially if you're just not in a place to do that. So I just kind of give content warning within the episode here because what. What this gets into is horrible. So with that said, this is the murder, the disappearance of Mer and murder of Rebecca park and her baby. This occurred in Michigan. There have been some arrests. There have been some developments. My sources for this are 9 and 10 news, ABC news, and CBS4 local news.

A (24:48)

So on the evening of Monday, November 3, 2025, a young woman named 30 named Rebecca park, who is 22 years old and 38 weeks pregnant, went missing. She had been visiting her biological mother, Courtney Bertholomew, in Boone Township in Michigan's Wexford County. If you do the thing where you look at your hand almost like a mitten, that's kind of the shape of Michigan, Wexford county is kind of in the north. It's almost toward, like, the top of the ring or pinky finger area of Michigan. It's very rural, apparently, from what I looked at. It's the location of the Manistee National Forest, a very wooded area. I'm sorry if I pronounce anything wrong in Michigan after my embarrassing failure with Mackinac island, which I pronounced Mackinac and just foolishness. I don't know how to say words, and I do apologize, and Michigan's a beautiful state, and I apologize for any offense caused, but this is. So this is where that takes place. Now, when interviewed, Courtney Bartholomew, who again is described as the biological mother in press reports, I'm kind of going. Based on these initial press reports, I think I might dig into this case a little deeper in the future. But it seems to be when someone's, like, noted as the biological mother, I imagine that there might be, like, an adoption or, like, a complicated family situation going on here. Right, Right. So Bartholomew claims that.

A (26:25)

She and her biological daughter Rebecca were running errands and that when they were done, Rebecca got into a black vehicle with an unknown driver and left. So police were searching for her for. For a while. Obviously, a situation where a woman who is pregnant just randomly goes missing is very disturbing and often looks like foul play because you Know, you're going to be going to your doctor's appointments and checking in with people at that time in your life in that situation. So.

A (26:56)

Her remains were ultimately found on November 25 in the Manistee National Forest. And this was apparently, from what I've read, not that far from her biological mother's home. And I think there were a couple of different avenues that were being explored investigatively. But recently there were two arrests, and those were Courtney Bartholomew, the biological mother of Rebecca, and Courtney's husband, Bradley Bartholomew, who is of no relation to Rebecca. And this is what Prosecuting Attorney Johanna Carey had to say. She said, quote, they brought Rebecca to their home. They forced her into a vehicle and took her into the woods where they stabbed her. They forced her to lie on the ground while they cut the baby out of her, ultimately causing her death and the death of the baby. So that is what investigators and prosecutors think happened at this point. This is what Michigan Attorney General Dana Nestle had to say, quote, rebecca had everything to live for, and her hearts are with her loved ones as they endure this unthinkable loss. We are committed to working alongside the Wexford County Prosecuting Attorney's office to ensure justice is pursued in this tragic case without delay. And it sounds like the Michigan Attorney General's Office is going to be assisting Wexford county in this prosecution. It sounds like Bradley Bartholomew is a habitual offender. These are what they were charged with. And this all occurred at the December 2nd arraignment of these two. Courtney Bartholomew was charged with one count of first degree murder, premeditated, one count of felony murder, one count of torture, one count of conspiracy to commit torture, one count of assault on a pregnant individual, intentionally causing miscarriage or stillbirth, one count of conspiracy to commit assault on a pregnant individual, intentionally causing miscarriage or stillbirth, one count of unlawful imprisonment, one count of removing dead bodies without a medical examiner's permission. She was denied bond. And Bradley Bartholomew got the same charges. In addition to being an habitual offender. It's his fourth offense. So, yeah, this is absolutely horrible. If. If you believe that you have any information to assist in this investigation, which is still ongoing because the body of her baby has not yet been found, please call 231-306-2072 or you can call the Wexford County Sheriff's department at 231-779-9216. And.

A (29:38)

Yeah, this is horrible. I mean, this is just. I don't understand. I know. Like, this sounds weird. Like, on some level, I understand, like.

A (29:49)

Sexual deviants who Want to rape and torture people, because it's like, they get off on that, right? You know, it's like a sexual thing. And we can all think. I mean, it's horrible. And I don't understand it on, like, some level, but I also kind of, like, I understand the logic there. You know, they see other people as just a means to an end. I don't understand these fetal abduction cases at all. I don't understand that. I don't know how you could do that to another person, which is. I mean, I could be wrong, but it sounds like that's what happened here. And what I really don't understand. What I really don't understand is doing that to a child that you carried, like, this is her biological mother. I don't know how you could do that. Like, I just. Your own daughter. It reminded me. I remember in college, like, I read about there was, like, a myth from Japan, and it was almost like, I'm probably butchering this. I'm not an expert in Japanese culture or anything or mythology, but it got into. It was like. And I looked it up recently. It was because of this. It was the legend of the Onibaba. And that basically means, like, demon hag. And it was about this woman, almost like, kind of like a. Almost like kind of a witch, maybe. And she was a nurse. She wanted to save this, like, princess that she had cared for as a nurse. So she needed to do magic with stealing a baby from a pregnant woman's womb. And so she kidnapped a woman, a pregnant woman, and killed her, only to realize later that that woman was her daughter. And then she, like, went mad. And that was, like, the legend. And again, I just. Not only do I not understand these, generally when, like, strangers or people who kind of are acquaintances do it to each other, but when it's like this, I just really don't understand it. Obviously, the case is ongoing, innocent until proven guilty. But if this plays out to confirm the accusations here, it's really baffling to me. What do you think?

B (31:46)

Yeah, I'm sorry to be so quiet, but, yeah, this is the type of case that bothers me the most. It's just horrifying to me. It's really, really deeply upsetting. And I don't know what else to say about that.

A (32:01)

I watched the arraignment and the react. I felt so bad for the people in the gallery. Obviously, a lot of them knew and loved Rebecca. You just saw them flinching and reeling as they went into what happened to her. And I just can't I can't, I can't even. I would, I mean, I wanted to crawl out of my skin listening to some of this and I just can't imagine knowing someone and then knowing what they went through. That's just the worst. It's just I feel my heart goes out to those people. I mean, that's hell. But now I think we can go move on to Illinois. And this was actually, that case was. The Rebecca park case was recommended by a listener. So thank you to that person. And this one was also recommended by a listener. This was. And they shared an article that I looked at from Patch of all things. And that was kind of a helpful starting point. I also did some research on Newspapers.com, the Reedsburg Time Press and the Northwest Herald were very helpful. And I also looked at a McHenry County State's Attorney press release. This is in Illinois. And.

A (33:04)

Let'S start 13 years ago. This is not going where you think it's going. I'm just going to tell you that right now. 13 years ago.

A (33:13)

Which was, I guess when was that? 13 years ago.

B (33:16)

What is it, 2012?

A (33:17)

2012, yes. Duh. That was then 1333 year old Anita Marcek went missing. She was a mom of two. She had two daughters. I think one was like four months old, one was two years old. She went missing with them. So three people missing, two kids and a mom from Volo, Illinois in Lake County, Illinois, which is, you know, not too far away from Indiana. There's no credit card activity, no cell phone. Obviously immediately you're looking at foul play. Turns out she's also at that time estranged from her husband, Dan Marcic. Okay, so there's some problems here.

A (34:00)

She's reported missing. She's last seen October 6, 2012. She left her parents house in Wakanda. I must be saying that wrong. It's W A U C O N D A.

B (34:16)

Okay. It sounds like something out of the Black Panther.

A (34:18)

I know. So apologies to everyone in Illinois. I'm doing it again, but I'm just going to keep, keep pushing onward.

B (34:25)

I admire your bravery.

A (34:26)

I'm just going to get it wrong and you can all yell at me. I just, I, I got to keep moving. And there's a, there's massive grid searches. They're searching 12 square miles, they're searching chain of lakes, they're doing dive teams and retention ponds. And then.

A (34:43)

Sunday, October 14, 2012 rolls around and Anita Marcic emerges. She's in the Wisconsin Dells. She goes to the Dells Mobile and Travel Mart and Asks somebody to call the police as she and her kids need help. An officer responds. An officer is led by her into the woods to about, like, a half a mile, where they go to her SUV where her kids are located, and they're in good health and everyone's fine.

B (35:13)

The.

A (35:13)

There's no foul play. Well, at least there's no foul play on anyone else's part. Marcic herself was taken to the Winnebago Mental health facility in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, for evaluation. And her mom tells the papers that she's going through some difficult personal stuff. The kids are given to their father, Dan Marcek. So at that point, the county says, hey, we're not gonna. Like, no one lied. No one was, like, lying. No legal basis for us to get reimbursement from these people for the cost for the search. State's attorney Michael Waller said, quote, the police did their job. They took the disappearance of the woman and her two children seriously. They didn't estimate the cost, but they're just like, no one was lying. No one had any ill intent here. Maybe this woman probably had some kind of issues going on. But anyways, let's go to October 10, 2024. At that point, members of the McHenry County Sheriff's Office in Illinois go to the unincorporated community of Wonder Lake, and they find that a woman and her husband are injured. The. The woman, Anita Marcek, has a superficial injury. The male. It's not clear if this is her, you know, husband, Dan Marcek, or. Or another man that she was with, like, later, who she remarried and just kept her old name. I don't know. But he had a serious gunshot wound. So she claimed they were both shot by an unknown intruder. He said something different. He said that she shot him. And they both go to the hospital, and they dig into this, and they find the firearm hidden under her mattress. And they determined that, you know, investigators determined that she, in fact, was the lone shooter and her, you know, husband was correct and that she was responsible for this. So.

A (37:05)

He survived, and she was hit with attempted murder charges. So what happened recently is that McHenry County State's Attorney Randy Freest announced that on December 2, 2025, Anita Marcic, who's now 46, was sentenced to 22 years in the Illinois Department of Corrections. And this was, you know, apparently the victim in this case was part of this plea deal process, plea bargaining. She had a plea of aggravated battery with a firearm, which is a class X felony in Illinois. Sentencing ranges from six to 30 years imprisonment. So she got toward the higher end. And if you're wondering how long she's going to serve, the press release included helpful information about she's going to serve at least 85% of her sentence due to the truth and sentencing laws there, and then will be on mandatory supervised release for three years. And the. I guess the lead detective on this was a person with an amazing name. This is with the McHenry County Sheriff's Office. It's Detective Michael Quick. What a great name. And like, that's just like. Sounds like a fictional detective, and I love it. Quick Michael is the patron saint of police officers in Catholic thought, or I guess anyone who goes for saints in the Christian family. And then Quick is a great last name, so it's perfect. And the prosecutor on this was Chief of Staff Ashley Romito. It's. It's really wild to me that this one person just had ran the gamut of being a missing person years ago, maybe that being due to some issues and then getting to the point where she actually shot a man and. And could have easily killed them, but thankfully didn't. It speaks to a very troubled person, which is sad. But it's also, you know, that's. Once you're. Once you're shooting people, I feel like, you know, it's not like you probably are better off in prison so you don't hurt anybody else.

B (39:09)

Words to live by.

A (39:10)

Yeah. Once you get to that point, it's.

B (39:12)

You're shooting people.

A (39:13)

I really wish. I mean, like, it's sad because obviously going missing with your two small children and bringing them into the woods is a hu. Huge red flag. That's a. That's a red flag. That's, you know, that's visible from space. You wish that someone like that could have gotten the intervention and the treatment that they obviously needed. And it's sad that they didn't. But it's also. It's like, that's the situation we're in. And I'm not sure. I mean, like, I. I'm not casting aspersions or blame on anybody. It's possible that her family really tried to get her help, and it just. It's a complicated world and that stuff can be difficult. And if someone doesn't want to get help, it's. They can't. They're not going to get help. That's. I mean, you can't want something more than the person who needs the help. So it's sad.

B (40:01)

It is sad.

A (40:04)

I think we're going to lighten the mood a bit. Are we going to get all shook up.

B (40:09)

And I was, I'm going to talk about a story out of Missouri. This, frankly, it marred my Thanksgiving holiday season because, Anya, you and I, we recorded two cheat sheets on one day because of the holiday. And then right after that, I came across this story. And it's like, this story needs to be on cheat sheet. And I had to wait. I had to wait through Thanksgiving.

A (40:31)

You were stewing all throughout your Thanksgiving feast.

B (40:34)

Yeah, you could tell I was in a surly mood, as usual. I was cross, I was irritable. And it's because of this story and my sources for this story out of Missouri. The BBC, CBS News, Fox 2 Now, AP News, and St. Louis Public Radio.

A (40:55)

So this got some attention even from the Brits. They were looking at this and saying.

B (40:58)

Uh, oh, this is about a judge, Matthew Thornhill. He is actually the longest serving circuit judge in St. Charles county in Missouri. And he's not going to be serving much longer, folks. So as part of a situation with the disciplinary commission, he's going to be basically serving a six month suspension. He is then going to serve another 18 months and then he's going to leave the bench. And so that's the story. So shall we move on? I told you a few of these details.

A (41:37)

Please go into the details, sir.

B (41:40)

The details, ladies and gentlemen, are what make this case. This man, like many good people the world over, he enjoys the music of Elvis Presley.

A (41:51)

Yeah.

B (41:52)

So one thing he does is he would wear sometimes an Elvis Presley wig in court during court business.

A (42:04)

Oh, no.

B (42:08)

And pictures of him wearing this wig exist and have been widely circulated. He would be sitting at his bench wearing this wig and sunglasses. He would. I don't even understand this. They said even if it wasn't relevant, he would just suddenly mention Elvis's birthday or death of his day, death of his date. The date of his death or lyrics from his music. Just kind of just toss that in for seasoning, I guess. Quote lyrics from his music, you know, witness. Also, if you want to, while you're sworn in, I could play some Elvis music. And then also I thought this was interesting. Sometimes when he'd walk into the court, Anya, he would have them play Elvis music. Like Walk on music for a judge.

A (43:02)

Walk on music for a judge.

B (43:05)

My question to you, do you think you need some Walk on music? The beginning of the podcast, what would that music be?

A (43:13)

This is our intro song. I don't know. I don't need Walk on music for the podcast. I do have a walk on song. If I ever somehow was In a.

B (43:21)

Situation, become a judge.

A (43:23)

No, I remember we went over. I remember I was in a situation where we're talking about, like, baseball and how baseball players have walk on songs. And I was asked what mine would be, and I thought I came up with a pretty good one. It's Stand Back by Stevie Nicks. Because you might get hit by the ball if I hit it, but. Or I don't know, I'm not very good at baseball or softball, so probably wouldn't apply to me. But I. I don't think a judge should need walk. I mean, like, let's just contextualize this, especially since we have listeners internationally who might be thinking, okay, America is a silly place and there's lots of stuff going on that's not normal. We don't have judges with walk on songs. That's not part of the process here. Is that fair to say?

B (44:00)

And you might be thinking, oh, you know, this guy, he's just trying to make court fun.

A (44:05)

But.

B (44:07)

And sure, let's all make work fun. But the thing is, there's people. When you go to court, you're not looking for a good time.

A (44:15)

Like, if you're on like a rape case, you don't want to be like, all right, yeah, like, play some Elvis song.

B (44:20)

Court's a very serious place. And if you're like going to court, even on a routine matter, and you look up and the judge is dressed as Elvis and says, you know what? Elvis died on August 16, 1977, you might be forgiven for wondering if he's taken your case as seriously as he should.

A (44:37)

Don't you feel like you could. I could just almost see, like the prosecutors and the defense attorneys just giving like, Jim from the office looks to the camera. Like, when all this is going on, like, what is that? Can you imagine you're like an out of town defense attorney going in to do this and being like, what's happening? Am I having like an episode or something? Like, God, that's so unfortunate.

B (45:01)

So the Elvis stuff, that's what gets.

A (45:04)

The attention, that's what gets the clicks.

B (45:05)

And the reason why is because there's these ridiculous pictures of him. And you could win the Nobel Prize, you could cure cancer. And if there's pictures of you dressed in an Elvis outfit, that's what the media will run. They say, oh, this guy cured cancer, but look at him here. So that's. That's to be expected. And, but that's.

A (45:27)

I have a question. This raises a question. Is there pictures of you dressed up as Elvis as a little Boy.

B (45:32)

No. Because even as a little boy, I had my dignity.

A (45:35)

I remember when we were talking to Greg Long, who is a defense attorney, previously a prosecutor. Great guy. We had him on the show to talk about his career and law stuff. He knew Kevin. They were friends when they were, like, little. And his. I remember when we were talking to.

B (45:50)

I don't.

A (45:51)

I don't know if this made it onto the podcast.

B (45:52)

I think I know what you're gonna say, and I think we redacted that.

A (45:55)

No, no, no, no, no. He said Isaac.

B (45:57)

Oh.

A (45:58)

I was like, oh. What was Kevin like as a little boy? He's like. I remember he really loved Elvis Presley. That was, like, the first thing that came to mind.

B (46:05)

Right. But I never dressed as Elvis, because I think a lot of people sure dress as Elvis. Do you? But I think if I walked around dressed as Elvis, it just wouldn't work. I would just look ridiculous. I'd look like this judge.

A (46:19)

Yeah. I think not a lot of people can pull that off.

B (46:24)

So this is just the tip of the. So if you're. If you dress as Elvis, I'm not saying you don't have dignity. I'm saying if I dressed as Elvis, I would not have.

A (46:33)

We're not trying to get into a war. A war with the Elvis impersonator community. We're not talking about you, just talking about average does and Kevin specifically.

B (46:45)

You love me dearly. I'm your favorite guy.

A (46:47)

I love you Tender.

B (46:50)

You would agree I would look ridiculous if I'd dressed as Elvis.

A (46:53)

Okay, can I just say something? Can I get some. Can I get really nerdy for just. I mean, I'm more nerdy. Crank it up a few notches. The Love Me Tender, that was from the Reno brothers movie, right?

B (47:03)

That's right.

A (47:04)

I need to. I need to tell people this. Okay. That's a movie that Elvis is in. It's about the Reno brothers. It's a stupid, bad movie, but the Reno brothers were really real, and they were a group of Hoosier criminals who were operating out of Seymour, Indiana. And that's what Elvis. That was one of his, like, first. Was that one of his first movies?

B (47:23)

Love Me Tender was his first.

A (47:24)

It's his first ever movie. He's playing a bunch of Hoosier ne' er Do Wells. And I will say that they were ultimately lynched, but, yeah, not for racial reasons. They were white, but they were doing crimes. And.

B (47:34)

Yeah, but this Elvis thing is the tip of the iceberg. And also, let's be honest, this guy's not curing. Cancer.

A (47:41)

Okay. Yeah.

B (47:42)

He. He has other issues, including he was actually reprimanded, anya, back in 2008. And this is an odd story.

B (47:55)

He reduced the charges against someone he was prosecuting because she said, I'll give you a baseball signed by Terry Bradshaw.

A (48:07)

I was hoping you were going to say Elvis.

B (48:10)

But see, first of all, first of all, Terry Bradshaw didn't play baseball.

A (48:14)

I don't know who that is.

B (48:15)

He's a football player. Okay, so that's odd. And. And he, Thornhill says, well, it turned out to be a fake. But you, you don't do that. You don't say, oh, you know, you give me something nice, I'll reduce the charges.

A (48:28)

So when you said he was prosecuting her, was he a prosecutor then?

B (48:32)

I guess so.

A (48:34)

Okay. That's really concerning.

B (48:39)

In the. He's also, as a judge, he's discussed his political affiliations during court business.

A (48:48)

Are you kidding me?

B (48:49)

Like, asking litigants or attorneys if they lived in, quote, Thornhill for judge country.

B (48:59)

Someone once came into court on behalf of a labor union, and the judge asked him, have you warmed up to Thornhill for judge?

A (49:10)

Are you kidding me?

B (49:12)

This isn't good. No, because again, what you want, if you have business in front of the court, whether an outsider might say, oh, this isn't a murder thing, it's not as serious as that. It's just a routine thing. If you go to court, it's important to you, and you want to have some assurance that it's going to be adjudicated fairly. And if a judge is there talking about his political things or asking you if you're a supporter, that would raise some issues.

A (49:46)

Don't you think that's really appalling? Yeah, I mean, that's. I mean, so the headlines are very much Elvis centric, but the reality is that this person was not behaving appropriately as a judge on a number of different fronts that gave basically tore apart the appearance of impartiality, which you need a judge to have.

B (50:07)

Yes.

A (50:08)

You know, every judge is going to be taking their own experiences into the courtroom and their own biases and their own preferences. So no judge is perfect. No judge can be truly, you know, 100 billion percent objective about everything. We're all human beings. But it's. It's one thing for someone to have like, oh, I was a prosecutor or I was a defense attorney, and that shapes my view of the law versus, like, hey, are you gonna vote for me?

B (50:30)

Like, what would you say? It's troubling.

A (50:34)

I say it's Subject of much consternation.

B (50:38)

Oh, strong words from Anya Kane. Well, now, this all came out, you know, just before Thanksgiving. More recently, he's a bit upset because he says, well, I was under the impression all this Elvis stuff and all this stuff would be kept secret. And now it's getting a lot of attention. Pictures are coming out of me dressed as Elvis. That's a violation of the agreement. And so he wants the agreement he made to be modified and for him not to receive quite so stringent a punishment. And again, you should know, if you are an authority figure and pictures exist of you dressed up in a goofy Elvis outfit, those are going to run, and they're going to run widely.

A (51:23)

That's just science.

B (51:27)

That is just science.

A (51:28)

I'm going to tell you, like, I was prepared to be somewhat sympathetic because I also am a goofy person. I don't really know how to talk to people, and for a lot of my life, I've just sort of, like, info dumped stuff about my interests to people in conversations because I don't really know how to talk to people, I guess, you know, like, now that's how.

B (51:48)

You make a living.

A (51:49)

That. Now that's how I make a living. You're all my captive audience, and you can't talk back to me. No, it. But, but seriously, like, I understand that, like, I, I've been in college parties where everyone's drunk, including myself, and I'm talking about Jamestown and the secrets and mysteries there. You know, I'm not. I, I can't really throw stones at someone who's using, you know, you know, social interactions of any kind as some sort of a, you know, vehicle for. For goofy stuff. So, like, I, I, as someone who just, you know, is socially awkward and has strong interests, I was prepared to feel bad for him, but this is so much worse than, than I think what the headlines made it out to be. This is something where you're actually making a complete. You're not just being kind of awkward or, oh, I just wore an Elvis thing one day. You're making a mockery of the court. You're making a mockery of the court. You're eroding people's trust that they're going to get a fair shot in court. That is terrible. That's a really bad thing to do. And the fact that he's still fighting it. Listen, take your lumps, man. You know, take the L. Yeah, it sucks to be publicly humiliated, but maybe use it as an opportunity to go do better in the future. Don't like you Know what I mean? There's no, like, the Elvis stuff is not the worst stuff here. The other stuff is really concerning.

B (53:01)

Now you, you just said something there. Very well said. But you said something that I don't think we should let slip by. You mentioned, in some ways, you identify with this person, and maybe you used to do something similar at parties while you were in college. At these parties, when you were talking about Jamestown, were you dressed as a Jamestown settler, perhaps with an appropriate hat?

A (53:24)

No.

B (53:25)

I'm very disappointed.

B (53:29)

I was excited. There I was picturing you at these parties with the Jamestown hat, the old time outfit. That would have been delightful.

A (53:36)

The period I was most interested in for Jamestown, it was all. There was no women for, for a hot minute there, and then they brought in a couple, then they brought in a bunch. But there, there was, there wouldn't have been an opportunity for me to cosplay as a jamestown woman in April 1607 to November 1607, you know, because there were no ladies.

B (53:57)

Well, trying to end on a light note, now you've brought us down. We're all thinking of you in this outfit. Now it's been taken away from us. I, I, let's move on.

A (54:08)

So insane. But yeah, no, that guy should not be a judge. I think this, unfortunately, I think when you get like a local, like, eccentric, who's your judge? You know, you, you run into situations like this that could, that could be problematic. Every, it's all fun and games with the Elvis stuff, and then you get into basically being like, you know, your union needs to vote for me or I'm not gonna do with anything for you.

B (54:30)

No, he didn't say that explicitly.

A (54:33)

He did not say that explicitly. But the, the, the questions were still inappropriate.

B (54:39)

Like, can you imagine, like, going into court perhaps during the Richard Allen trial and seeing Judge Gold dressed in a funny outfit?

A (54:50)

No, no, no, no, no, no.

B (54:53)

I have my issues with Judge Gull, but at the end of the day, she understands.

A (54:57)

We, we, we salute Judge Gull. Not trying to dress as some famous pop star in order to entertain people or not. Not, not being that level of weird. I think you want your judge to be professional. And, you know, as you said, a court place, A court, a courthouse is not the place for fun. It's not, you're not, it's not your, it's not a place to do stand up. It's not a place to, you know, share all of your interests. It's a place where, you know, the law is supposed to be front and center and people are not robots. Like, there might be moments of humor, but there really shouldn't be, like, attempts to make it like a fun, silly. It' not like your dentist office where you got a dentist dressing up to, you know, have the kids be more relaxed and not as scared. Like, it's not that. That's not appropriate.

A (55:48)

Anyways, so are we doing our anecdotes now?

B (55:53)

Wait, don't we do the anecdote after the. The promotional part of the program?

A (55:57)

I almost messed it up.

B (56:01)

Do we want to talk a little bit about some of the mottos we got?

A (56:04)

Oh, yeah. We have to talk about the models because.

B (56:06)

Because Anya. Anya. Enc. People descended mottoes for us.

A (56:10)

No, I did not. And no one believes that. No one. You say something like that. People like, nah, I don't think that that sounds like a Kevin thing.

B (56:17)

No.

A (56:17)

Yeah. And I. I want to say. Yeah. So Kevin got obsessed for some reason with the state mottos and critiquing some of those, and now he wanted people to come up with mottos for our show. And I. We tried to find all the ones that people sent us if we didn't say yours. Yell at us. Send us an email. Send us an outrage email. You friggin forgot my motto. And we'll read it on the next one.

B (56:38)

Here's some of the mottos. The podcast that pokes the bear. Murder, Mayhem, mirth and minutiae. A podcast delivering objective clarity for the voices who have been silenced. The murder sheet. The facts. Just the facts. Podcast. The murder sheet. No nonsense. True crime. It's a crime that everyone isn't listening to. The murder sheet.

B (57:01)

Come for the murders, stay for the serial killer. The empire podcast of the Midwest.

A (57:06)

Yes. Those were all amazing. I love those. I love how most of the people took it pretty seriously of, like, what they think the show is, which was super nice. I love. I love all of those. I think they're. I think you guys brought it. I think you guys brought it. If anyone has any additional mottos they want to send us, we could have.

B (57:25)

Like a roll of motto. You'd have a roll of models circulating mottos.

A (57:29)

You know those old commercials for, like, CDs where they're, like, having all the song titles go past, you know, like, kind of like scrol past. We could just do that with.

B (57:37)

Or it could be like the opening of Star Wars.

A (57:39)

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my gosh, that's amazing. Well, thank you guys for bringing your A game with the mottos. We love them. Love them all. Love you all. Is there other ones that you Neglected to mention or those. Those ones you got.

B (57:52)

Those are the ones I found.

A (57:54)

If we forgot your motto, tell us. It haunts me that we might have forgotten someone's motto. And they're sitting there being like, I sent something. I guess they hated it. We didn't. We're just goofy, disorganized people. So send it to us. Okay. Don't worry.

B (58:08)

Anja is going to wake up tonight in a cold.

A (58:10)

The motto.

A (58:14)

I literally am. It's not even a joke.

B (58:16)

She's a very anxious person.

A (58:18)

Oh, God. Oh, my God. Yeah. Anyways, so now we're going to tell you about what we're doing. So tomorrow, December 6, 2025, from noon to 4:00pm we are going to be.

B (58:32)

Tomorrow's my 25th birthday.

B (58:35)

Yeah, well, it is my birthday.

A (58:40)

Yeah.

B (58:41)

I've had more than 25 of them.

A (58:43)

Oh, really?

B (58:43)

Yeah.

A (58:44)

Oh.

A (58:49)

Shaking my head.

B (58:51)

What could I get away with if I said I'm not going to.

A (58:53)

No, I'm not doing this with you.

B (58:56)

Okay.

A (58:59)

Your 25th birthday. Kevin can now legally drink. He's 21.

A (59:07)

Well, I want to hear what you have to say. What are you gonna pitch them on? What number.

B (59:13)

Tomorrow's my 67th birthday.

A (59:15)

No, no. No one would believe that.

B (59:17)

No one would believe that I'm that old.

A (59:19)

I don't think you. I think you look younger than your age. That's what my. That's why I'm not just saying that because you're my husband. I'm not saying that to be nice to you. I think you look. Look younger than you are, in my opinion. I think you have a boyish impudence that shines through. Yes, that's. That's my take. But, yeah, no, I. I used to. You know, we have an age gap, right? Cue the discourse. I used to be like, oh, no. People are gonna notice that, and they're gonna judge us, and they're gonna think Kevin's a weird pervert and I'm a bimbos looking at whatever, and I've got all these issues, and I was really worried about it. And now that I'm over 30, I get mad when people don't notice it.

A (60:04)

I think some people. Some people will say things of like, oh, well, oh, you guys are too young for this. And I'm like, whoa, they think we're the same age.

B (60:18)

You're just a wee lass.

A (60:19)

Yeah, I'm a little bit younger than you.

B (60:22)

Just a little bit.

B (60:25)

Barely noticeable.

A (60:27)

Are you excited for your birthday? I know you're.

B (60:29)

Well, we are going to spend our birthday in an event with the former governor of Indiana.

A (60:34)

Okay. Yeah, that's true.

B (60:35)

Well, it's an author's writers fair at the Indiana Historical Society. And I explained before, there's not going to be any amusement park rides. There's not going to be any games of chance. There's not going to be any wagering that I'm aware of.

A (60:51)

No wagering. Why are we going?

B (60:54)

There's gonna be. A lot of Indiana authors, including the former governor, are going to be there.

A (60:59)

Michael Korid is gonna be there. We've had him on the show. He's a mystery and thriller writer who's awesome, and he's from Indiana, and we've interviewed him about his book, An Honest.

B (61:11)

Man, and we will be there. And it's my birthday.

A (61:15)

It's your birthday. I would just recommend to everyone bring tributes to Kevin. If you're gonna come, bring some baubles, something that he might fancy. No, I'm just kidding. He doesn't expect that. But we would like to see all of you there. And, you know, if anyone can come, come say hi to us. You don't have to bring him anything where I'm. I. I don't want anyone to take that too seriously.

B (61:34)

No, take it seriously.

A (61:36)

Just bring yourself. That's the best gift of all.

B (61:42)

Unless there's something else you can think of.

A (61:46)

Yeah, we'd love to see some of you, if you can come. If you're in the Indianapolis area. We're going to be there from 4. We're going to be there from noon to 4. 4 to noon. We're going to be there overnight.

B (61:58)

We're going to be there overnight and then leave just before the event begins.

A (62:02)

We like to do things differently here at the Murder Sheet.

B (62:05)

So that's my birthday. And I don't know if you're aware of this, Anya. You know, December is like the holiday season. There's actually another important date in December that people like to celebrate.

A (62:17)

Oh, what is that?

B (62:18)

Sinatra's birthday.

A (62:20)

When is that?

B (62:21)

That's on December 12th. And I think that we should try to use whatever power and influence we have to see if we can get some sort of multinational corporation to do something on that day for the Murder Sheet people. That's my goal, guys.

A (62:40)

Yeah, December 12th could be a big day for us. Is that right?

B (62:45)

And if a multinational corporation does something on that day, I should get all the credit. If it benefits the Murder Sheet people. Just give me all the credit. While Kevin must have a lot of influence, you are.

A (63:00)

You are an influential man, despite My youth, but your extreme youth.

B (63:07)

I'm not happy about having a birthday.

A (63:09)

Yeah, he's been really depressed about it all week. It's been a whole thing. He's on being like, I'm so old. You're not old. You're fine.

B (63:17)

I'm 82.

A (63:18)

No, you're not 82.

B (63:20)

I don't look my age. I'm 82.

A (63:21)

You just really offended all the 82 year old listeners, first of all, because they're probably like, I'm not old. And you're, you're just a young pup. It's fine, it's fine. You just feel old because you're married to a younger woman. It doesn't mean you're old. You're not, I'm old.

B (63:36)

I'm a hundred.

A (63:36)

You're not old. Sometimes I like to tease you about being old because you're, you're Gen X and I'm a millennial. But let's be honest, we're both weird, like silent generation people at heart.

A (63:48)

We're going way back. I, I, I don't think you're old. I think you're very, you're very young at heart. And what was the other thing, though, I was gonna say with this? Oh, yes. But anyways, you guys come to the holiday author event. It's gonna be super fun and you're gonna see some other cool books. But you know, bring your book, we'll sign it, it'll be fun and we can all hang out and it's gonna be awesome.

B (64:12)

I will say, and whether you're there or not, if you wanna do something for my birthday, just buy lots of copies of the book or tell your friends it's the holiday season.

A (64:19)

Here's what I'm gonna say. This is a, this is a sincere plea to our audience. So holiday season is really big for authors. We're first time authors. We've got a wonderful independent publisher, Pegasus, but we need your help to spread the word. You would be really surprised by how few people actually know about the Delphi murders case. Like, it's one of those cases that sometimes you describe some of the details and people say, oh, I think I've heard of that. And then other times they just haven't. And that's okay. Not everyone is that into true crime, but I think this book is something that a lot of people will be interested in and we've already had such help from our audience in spreading the word about it. But if you could just share a picture of your book or share a post about it. And your personal social media, you can tag us. We're usually murder sheet. Murder sheet or sheet on different. Different places. Or you can email us and we'll give you the handles or whatever, you know, but, you know, we'll reshare it if you want, but if you could just share it with your networks, if you could share it on your personal social media, if you could text your friends, text the people you know who love to read about it. And the more everyone does that, just the more word will get spread. And that just kind of organic stuff is. Is the best, in my opinion, because it's about, you know, people trust you to have good taste. And they'll be like, all right, take that seriously. And we know you have good taste here because you're listening to the murder sheet. So if you can do that, that would mean a lot, especially in the holiday season. It's just a big push for people books right now. And, you know, I mean, we just want to thank you also, everyone who's read it, everyone who's reached out to us about what it meant to them, everyone who's come to our events, everyone who's helped us in any way. You mean the world to us. You've made this whole process, you know, it was a difficult reporting and writing process. And to come to the end of it and to be able to meet so many great people and hear from so many great people and see the book and the story of Abby and Libby resonating with people, it, like, melts my heart in a way, because it just feels like we all went through this together.

B (66:25)

Now I've stolen a peek at your secret show notes. And so I know the anecdote that you are proposing to tell or to be told on this episode. Am I telling it? Are you telling it?

A (66:40)

Maybe. Maybe I can start it and set you up to slam dunk. And it's one that makes me look ridiculous. So it's not like I'm trying to make, you know, I'm not trying to get my digs in on you in. In secret. It's. It's something that I struggle with now.

B (66:56)

You just don't depress everybody.

A (66:57)

No, I'm not depressing everyone. It's funny. So this is something you may not know about me. Although, I don't know. Kevin, in the beginning of our courtship, I think he was really impressed with me at times because I would say things and it would sound like I was being clever, but I was inadvertently stumbling into puns. Right. I'll say things and you'll be like, wow, what? Like, she's so witty. And it would be just me just crashing through life. No idea what I'm saying. And no idea that it's, like, actually a pretty good pun. I just inadvertently do that sometimes. But the flip side of that is that I'm also, unfortunately, sometimes a magnet for double entendres.

B (67:37)

Yeah. So.

B (67:40)

I'm sure it won't come as a surprise. It's been a very busy year for us. We have, like, in a glimpse behind the secret chamber doors in our bedroom, there have been, like, piles of books and stuff up against the walls. And they've been there longer than books.

A (68:00)

Should be piled up since we moved in.

B (68:02)

In an adult's house, it's very, very embarrassing. And too many books. Is it possible to have too many books?

A (68:09)

In our case, yes.

B (68:11)

So it's a bit of a mess up there, piled up against the walls. And now recently that things are quieting down a bit. We've gotten some little tidy shelves and stuff, and we're actually organizing it, and it looks really, really great. And so the other day we decide to, ah, let's go out and get a snack. And so we go to an establishment that sells snacks. And the establishment.

B (68:40)

Has a large parking lot that is shared with a number of other businesses. And this was after Thanksgiving, so the parking lot is packed with shoppers. Merry holiday shoppers, including young children who didn't deserve to hear this. And the place is packed. And as we go in, Anya is delivering some sort of monologue about how happy she is and why are you happy, Anya? Well, Kevin, we're finally making progress in the bedroom, and people, like, turn and look at us.

B (69:21)

And I'm like, what did you say?

B (69:25)

People are looking at me.

A (69:28)

Glad to hear it.

A (69:33)

Immediately the words were, like, leaving my mouth. And I was like, oh, no.

A (69:40)

Have you ever had that? You just realize what you're saying, but, like, you're halfway through the war. Oh, my God.

B (69:45)

And you said it loudly in your podcast.

A (69:47)

I said it loudly. It was like a big announcement in the parking lot, which is packed, there's.

B (69:53)

Like, young kids who are probably asking their parents awkward questions now.

A (69:57)

It was bad. Oh, my God. I was.

B (70:01)

They're not kids anymore.

A (70:02)

Oh, my God. I don't remember seeing any young children.

B (70:05)

But there were babes in arms.

A (70:07)

Oh, my God. It was. Yeah, I'm gonna have to go into hiding one of these days. It was really bad. I just really was excited about how organized we were getting.

A (70:19)

I sounded so happy, too. Yes, people were like, what the hell is going on over there? Oh, my God. Anyways, that's our anecdote. See, I guess we have some modern, awkward situations we can talk about once in a while. I was like, we ran out of anecdotes. And then that happened. And I was like, oh, okay.

B (70:40)

We still have plenty of anecdotes.

A (70:42)

Do we?

B (70:44)

What about my encounter with the spree killer?

A (70:47)

Oh, that's another. We can. We can do a. Should we do it. Should we do that one another time?

B (70:52)

I'll warn you, it's not. It's not interesting.

A (70:55)

You weren't fending them off like you fought off the home.

B (70:58)

Yeah. So it's not. The reason I've never told the story is because it's not interesting.

A (71:03)

Well, it is actually kind of interesting. And I remember I will say this, and we'll. We talked about this at Thanksgiving, and we will. We will do this as our next anecdote. I think we talked about it this at Thanksgiving, and Kevin's mom didn't even know that this happened.

B (71:17)

Oh, about me fending off the home invader?

A (71:19)

Yeah. She was like, you were home invaded? And we were. And then you were like, well, that's kind of a little bit of an extreme way to, like, the robbers came in my apartment. And she. You hadn't told her? She was horrified. So sorry. To Kevin's mom. She's awesome. She deserved to be updated about possibly disturbing things in your life.

B (71:37)

See, sometimes I forget people listen to the show.

A (71:39)

Your mom listens.

B (71:40)

Hi.

A (71:42)

And she's awesome. But she. Yeah, she was. She was disturbed by that. And then I was like, well, did he tell you about the spree killer? And she was like, what? So, yeah, it's been. It's been. It's been a time.

B (71:52)

But again, it's not a cli. It's not an interesting story. So I'll leave it at that.

A (71:58)

Tune in next week tv. Hear more about Kevin's boring anecdote about a spree killer. All right, are we done? Are we done being ridiculous? No. Yeah. The answer is no. All right, take care. Hope to see some of you at the Indianapolis Book Fair tomorrow. There are, if you go to murder sheet. Okay. Go to murdersheetpodcast.com events and you will see a place to get tickets. I think it is a ticketed event.

B (72:26)

And I should also explain something. The book fair that we refer to is on December 6th.

A (72:33)

December 6th.

B (72:33)

Because people are going to be, like, listening to this at different times. And in fact, you listen to this, like, next Thursday you show up, you're going to show up and, like, nobody's going to be there. And you'll be, like, shaking your fist at us because we trick you, prank. You might be listening to this, like a year from now, two years from now.

A (72:48)

Don't come unless it's December 6th. I almost said 1975. I have no idea why. Unless it's December 6th, 2005. Go, go then. And otherwise, don't come because it's not going to be happening. And. And it's going to be a Saturday, so.

B (73:03)

And happy birthday to me.

A (73:07)

I love you, Kevin.

B (73:08)

And you can, you can wish me a happy birthday. Even if you're listening to this, like, in August.

A (73:12)

Yeah.

B (73:12)

Feel free to say happy birthday.

A (73:14)

Let the happy birthday shower down on him. I just want to say that in. In all sincerity, since it. This is the cheat sheet before your birthday. You are a marvelous, marvelous husband and a marvelous person and I've freaking. I'm obsessed with you and love you. So thank you.

B (73:31)

Very sweet. I love you, too.

A (73:32)

Thank you for being married to me despite my eccentric cities.

A (73:38)

And. And thank you for just being a wonderful partner. He got me through 2024. You dragged me through 2024 and 2025. I was. I was falling apart for a lot of that process and you were my rock and I love you more than anything. So sorry to get all corny, everybody, but I had to do it and I'm very. I know you don't like your birthday, but I'm excited to celebrate with you. It's gon be great.

B (74:00)

You're very sweet. I love you, too.

A (74:02)

I love you. Bye.

B (74:04)

Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us@murdersheetmail.com if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

A (74:24)

If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com murdersheet if you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www. Buymeacoffee.com murdersheet we very much appreciate any support.

B (74:48)

Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the web@kevintg.com if you're looking to talk with.

A (74:59)

Other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening. We've run into some pretty creepy people in our true crime journey and we've even gotten some threats as a result. Safety is often top of mind for Kevin and I.

B (75:28)

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A (76:03)

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B (76:20)

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A (76:44)

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