The Cheat Sheet: Geofencing and Guardrails

Summary

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Murder Sheet Podcast: "The Cheat Sheet: Geofencing and Guardrails"

Release Date: April 24, 2026
Hosts: Journalist Áine Cain & Attorney Kevin Greenlee

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Episode Overview

In this edition of "The Cheat Sheet," Áine and Kevin dive into several criminal cases, giving updates on long-dormant cold cases with recent developments, current legal debates over technology and privacy, and the emotional realities families face during missing persons searches. The main theme is the intersection between crime, evolving forensic technology (especially geofencing), privacy rights, and the quest for justice. Listeners are promised evidence-based reporting, thoughtful analysis, and moments of levity between the hosts.

Content Warning: The episode includes discussions of child sexual abuse and murder.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Utah Family Conspiracy Murder Trial

• Timestamps: 03:17–12:14

• Case Summary:

  • Trial of Tracy Grist, charged with conspiracy and related crimes over the murder of her son-in-law, Matthew Rastelli.
  • Grist's daughter and son have already been convicted for their parts in the murder and are testifying against her.

• Case Details:

  • The daughter, Catherine Rastelli, confided marital troubles via text; Tracy Grist replied, "I'll just drive nine hours and strangle him," a comment that escalated into a murder plot.
  • Catherine claims to have had second thoughts, but her mother insisted: "I don't care. I'm doing it anyway." (06:24)
  • Catherine fulfilled her role in the conspiracy by luring Matthew to their house, where he was shot. Their children were drugged to ensure they slept through the crime.
  • The family staged the crime scene ineffectively—placing a knife in the victim's non-dominant hand with a backward grip.

• Legal and Emotional Reflections:

  • Áine voices frustration over participants’ rationalizations:

    "Killing your child's father is obviously... these people are just so delusional... Once anyone is talking about violence or murder, do they not have a voice in their head that says, hey, maybe you're the bad guy here?" (05:20)

  • Kevin considers if the children’s later testimony ("We tried to talk her out of it") is genuine remorse or an excuse to minimize their own culpability. (09:14)
  • The hosts reflect on the lasting trauma for the children and how rational people underestimate the impacts of such crimes on families.

    "You know what's really gonna traumatize your kids? Murdering their father." —Áine (05:20)

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2. Indiana Cold Case Arrests: The 1981 Murder of Donald Wasserman

• Timestamps: 15:20–27:21

• Case Summary:

  • Recent arrests in the decades-old case of Donald Wasserman, who disappeared in August 1981.
  • Suspects Robert L. Sage (arrested in Florida, now 76) and Daniel M. Martin (71, Elkhart resident) charged with murder after forensic advances and a confession.

• Case Details:

  • Wasserman, believed to be in the recycling business but possibly involved in drug trafficking, vanished after meeting Sage.
  • His car was found abandoned, smelling of gasoline and containing evidence of blood.
  • Body found days later, discovered by a jogger’s dog; arms and legs tied, multiple skull fractures.
  • Fresh forensic analysis of an old plastic sheet using DNA confirmed the victim’s identity, leading investigators again to Martin and Sage.
  • Martin’s 2025 confession detailed his and Sage’s roles:

    "Robert Sage led [Wasserman] into the office... Daniel Martin advised that he held the gun on Wasserman while Robert Sage repeatedly struck Wasserman on the head with... a brass hammer." —Affidavit quoted by Áine (15:20–23:00)

  • Failed attempts to burn the car and dispose of evidence; the murder scene was initially undetected due to a storm washing away clues.

• Noteworthy Aspects:

  • The suspects remained free for decades, thinking they'd escaped justice. Áine underscores the value of perseverance in cold cases:

    "You can be some old geezer who thinks you got away with everything, and then you know you're gonna get dragged back... because of what you did." (25:56)

  • Both Sage and Martin face trials in mid-2026. The show highlights the importance of new investigative methods and persistent detective work.

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3. Legal Analysis: Geofencing Warrants & Privacy (Minnesota Case)

• Timestamps: 28:37–40:26

• Context:

  • Discussion of the use of geofence warrants—a tool for law enforcement to access location data from tech companies like Google to identify potential suspects.

• Case Details:

  • In Minnesota, the police investigating a body found in a culvert requested Google hand over all device data for people in the area over two weeks.
  • From this data, they focused on device activity belonging to Ivan Contrisas Sanchez, who would eventually be arrested and convicted.

• Legal Debate:

  • Kevin explains the controversy:

    "The police would have the ability to see all this data... and then point to any device, and say, 'Okay, I want more information about that.' They don't go back to a judge... That's too much power for the police to have." (32:40)

  • Minnesota’s court ruled this practice inappropriate; judges must review and approve additional data requests, not just the police.

• Broader Implications:

  • Áine recognizes the tension between solving crimes and respecting civil liberties:

    "Anything that bolsters privacy protections for people, I think is probably a good thing... It's not just about one case. It's about how all of us move through society." (38:25)

  • The Supreme Court is set to rule on geofencing and privacy soon, which will guide national policy.

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4. Technology & Missing Persons: The JD Project (Kentucky)

• Timestamps: 41:34–47:00

• Story:

  • After the disappearance and eventual tragic discovery of JD (Gyrona Parker), his son Jerome—himself a software engineer—creates "The JD Project" (Project Aziz).
  • Designed to help families and communities coordinate missing persons searches more effectively: users can upload photos, videos, create search parties, and share real-time information.

• Purpose & Value:

  • Áine commends the innovation and expresses empathy for families:

    "Nobody signs up for having a loved one go missing... it's chaos. It's fast moving... and having solutions for that could really help a lot of people out." (46:41)

  • The platform leverages technology (AI cameras, mapping) for practical, compassionate results, filling a gap for overwhelmed families.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Family-Driven Murder:

  "Maybe they're like, I don't know if this is a good idea. But that doesn't erase their own culpability here because they did nothing. It's like, we've tried nothing and nothing is working." —Áine (10:15)

• On Indiana & Home-State Nostalgia:
  Humorous banter about "moonlight on the Wabash," jazz standards, and Indiana's cultural reputation. (12:24–13:01)
• On Privacy & Surveillance:

  "I have concerns about the level of constant surveillance everyone's under all the time, even though I appreciate that can solve murders." —Áine (38:25)

• On Geofence Warrants:

  "If you’re sharing your location data with... a giant tech company, maybe you have no privacy interest in it at all." —Kevin (31:25)

• On the Power of Cold Case Breakthroughs:

  "I love stories like this because you can be some old geezer who thinks you got away with everything, and then you're dragged back... but obviously they're innocent until proven guilty." —Áine (25:56)

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Additional Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Content Warning: 01:15–02:20
• Utah Family Murder Case: 03:17–12:14
• Indiana Cold Case Deep Dive: 15:20–27:21
• Tech & Privacy Legal Debate (Geofencing): 28:37–40:26
• Kentucky: The JD Project and Family Innovation: 41:34–47:00

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Host Banter & Tone

As always, Áine and Kevin mix rigorous reporting and legal clarity with irreverent humor, poking fun at each other, their love of true crime, and Indiana stereotypes. These exchanges lighten the mood amid sometimes dark topics and help foster a sense of community with listeners.

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Closing Remarks

The episode closes with a reminder to listeners that justice is often a marathon, not a sprint, whether in the courts or through technological advances. The hosts encourage walking for mental health and tease a (lightheartedly intense) cornhole competition, exemplifying their rapport. Resources for missing persons and families are highlighted for further support.

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For more case material, discussion, and crime coverage, see The Murder Sheet Patreon and show notes for episode links and resources.

Transcript

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[Anya Cain]

I'm Anya, and today on the Cheat Sheet, we're going to be discussing a range of cases, including a cold case that just saw a big development. Content warning this episode contains discussion of the sexual abuse of children as well as murder. So today on the Cheat Sheet, we're recording this on April 16, 2026. So it's, you know, it's going to come out a little bit. It's going to be a distance between when we record, when it comes out. We apologize if there's developments in the meantime.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So you. You are giving away our secrets and basically telling people, by the time you hear this, this will be also outdated. It's completely not worth your time.

[Anya Cain]

I don't think it'll be outdated and not worth people's time. I think we're going to get a lot of information, but it's just a way to let people know that, you know, you're mad that we didn't include something that happened after April 16th. We don't. We're not time travelers. Well, that may surprise some of you.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Speak for yourself.

[Anya Cain]

My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

[Anya Cain]

And this is the Murder Sheet.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep Dives into murder cases.

[Anya Cain]

We're the murder sheet, and this is the cheat sheet. Geofencing and guardrails.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So do you want to start in the great state of Utah?

[Anya Cain]

Yes.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I appreciate the enthusiasm. My source for this is ksl, more particularly an article by Emily Ashcraft. So I'd like to give people credit for their work. And this is about a trial that is going on involving a woman named Tracy Grist. And she faces a variety of charges related to the death of her son in law, including conspiracy charges and things of that nature. And her daughter is one of the people testifying against her at this trial. And actually, her daughter and her son have also faced charges and been convicted for their role in this whole affair.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, my goodness.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So what happened was Catherine Ristelli, she is the daughter. She indicated to her mother at some point that she was having some frustration within her marriage to Matthew Rastelli. And at one point she texted her mother, quote, we've been fighting so much. I want out. And then at a subsequent point in that text conversation, her mother said, well, I'll just drive nine hours and strangle him. And Mrs. Rastelli said, well, I thought of that as a joke, but eventually I came to realize it wasn't a joke. And this is what my mother was proposing because she thought this was the best way out for me because, you know, I have children. There could be custody issues.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. Killing your child's father is obviously, you know, the. I mean, like, people like this are just so delusional. I get how anger and temper and emotions flare when a relationship is imploding, but the second anyone is talking about violence or murder, they do, they not, like, have a voice in their head that says, hey, maybe you're the bad guy here. Maybe regardless of how much of a jerk you think someone is, the fact that you're the one plotting against them doesn't say anything good about you. And you need to stop it and grow up and either fix your relationship and move on or get a divorce or separate or do what you want to do and co parent in a way that's not gonna totally traumatize. Because they say, like, you know, that people say, okay, staying in a miserable marriage traumatizes your kids. Getting divorced might traumatize your kids, especially if you don't handle it well. But you know what's really gonna traumatize your kids? Murdering their father.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah. And Ms. Rastelli said she had second thoughts on when this was about to happen. Ms. Rastelli knew her mother and her Brother had just been out planning the death of her husband. And she claims that she looked at her mother and said, mom, I don't want to do this anymore. And her mother responded, I don't care. I'm doing it anyway. And again, the wife, Mrs. Rastelli, is in prison for her role in this, as is her brother, Kevin Ellis. And after her mother indicated she wasn't going to back down, Mrs. Rastelli did fulfill her role in this conspiracy because she lured her husband to a particular location where he was shot.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, my goodness. So, like, that's not exactly like a, you know, turning things around. It's.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And this location was their house. And before the shooting, she said that she even gave her kids some sort of sleeping aids so that they would stay asleep through the whole thing.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, my gosh.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And so he was lured there, he was shot, and about nine minutes or eight minutes, pardon me, passed between the shooting and the time 911 was called. And that gave them time to do some rudimentary staging involving. Their plan was to put a knife in his hand to indicate that he was being somehow threatening, I suppose. But they put the knife in his non dominant hand and with a backward grip, which makes no sense. And blood stains at the scene are consistent with his arm being moved after he died. So, as I say, the. The sister, or rather the wife and the brother are already in prison, and the mother is now facing charges, and her daughters, when the people offering testimony against her. I thought that was an interesting story. What do you make of that?

[Anya Cain]

What do you make of. Well, I want to ask you what you. Because you researched this one, what did you make of the son and daughter pushing off responsibility on their mother? Oh, you know, at points we tried to talk her out of it, but she wouldn't listen.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Maybe it. It's true, or maybe it's an attempt for them to rationalize or minimize their own responsibility and guilt in the matter.

[Anya Cain]

Mom, I don't want to participate in your murder conspiracy. I have my own life. I mean, because here's the thing. I mean, my mom wouldn't do this, but, like, if any of us have a mom who's murderous and we're talking to them, and I'm gonna kill these people. The first of all, I'm like, no, that's gonna ruin my life way more than whatever the situation is you would think the thing to do at that point. If they're like, if for some reason your murderous mom is like, no, I'm. I'm locked in on this. You're gonna call those people and say, hey, listen, my mom and I were talking and she wants to kill you. You know, and maybe, maybe, like, I don't know, getting your mom some help or something at that point, if it's like, it just. It seems a little too convenient.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah. A lot of people find it difficult to stand up to their parents. I don't know if that's. That's the situation here.

[Anya Cain]

Mom, I don't want to kill anybody. That's your life, not mine. That's your dream. Mom. I don't understand this at all. I. I mean, but then again, like, yeah, you're. But also, I guess it's just like, yeah, maybe they were like, I don't know if this is a good idea. But like, that. That doesn't erase their own culpability here because they. They did nothing. It's like, we've tried nothing and nothing is working.

[Kevin Greenlee]

The wife says, quote, I realize I should have. I should have done more to stop it. And again, her mother is charged with murder, which is a first degree felony. She's also charged with conspiracy to commit murder and obstruction of justice, which are second degree felonies. And two counts of domestic violence in the presence of a child, which is a third degree felony.

[Anya Cain]

Think about this. These poor kids go to sleep because their mom drugs them so that their father can be murdered while they are unconscious. And they wake up unconscious. I don't know how to say words anymore. I'm sorry, folks. They wake up to a world in which their mother, uncle, grandmother, have just murdered their father. Like, they're like, the trauma and the grief and the betrayal of that, of these kids. Again, like, I get being so mad at your ex that you're like, I want them dead. I don't. I don't think anyone should feel that way. I don't think it's a nice way to feel. But I can understand people getting to that if things are really contentious. But I can't imagine acting upon it at all because it's like, you're just hurting your kids. Also from a selfish perspective, at some point, you got to recognize you're going to hurt yourself. You're not smart enough to pull this off. You're not a Colombo villain. And also, all the Colombo villains get caught. So what are we doing here? It's just like. But again, those are. When we're talking to, like, rational, smart people, they're not the people who find themselves in these situations. It's people who think they're way smarter than they actually are

[Kevin Greenlee]

agreed.

[Anya Cain]

You know, you don't recognize your own failings. That's really sad. Interesting case.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It's an interesting case. Now the cane train chugs on to its next location, which is where?

[Anya Cain]

The Hoosier State.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So back home again.

[Anya Cain]

Again in Indiana. Yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You're always talking about the smell of

[Anya Cain]

the new mown hay and the moonlight on the wabash.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It always reminds you of your Indiana home. You become. You've become such a. Such a Hoosier.

[Anya Cain]

That song's pretty. That song done by.

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[Kevin Greenlee]

We're quoting lyrics from a song.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. Done by. It became like a jazz standard.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah. Oddly enough, this song about Indiana became a jazz standard.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. It's a good song.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Your favorite version is done by the great K Star.

[Anya Cain]

K Star's version's amazing. She really makes Indiana, like sound like it's so swinging place.

[Kevin Greenlee]

That's how I convinced you to come here.

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[Anya Cain]

No I love Indiana. So this is a case that somebody actually sent us and I'm really glad they did because this one's wild. So thank you to the listener who sent this sources for this initial article to get me started was wsbt. But then I primarily just kind of went after my case as I am want to do and went a little nuts on newspapers.com as you are want to do as I am want to do. So let's read the probable cause affidavit first. So this is a a murder case that happened like all the way back in August of 1981. And it was the affiant for this one is Lieutenant Michael Carrick. Sorry if I'm saying his name wrong. So this is for one of there's two people being arrested for murder. One is Robert L. Sage and then the other one is Daniel M. Martin. So this is for Sage. Quote comes now the undersigned affiant, a law enforcement officer for the Elkhart County Homicide Unit and after being duly sworn upon his oath as follows. 1. That honor about the 16th day of August 1981, Sharon Wasserman reported to the Mishawaka Police Department that her husband Don Wasserman was missing. Sharon advised that Don had left earlier in the day to travel to Elkhart to meet up with Robert Sage. Sharon advised that she spoke to Robert Sage who told her that Don had not shown up to his house located in Elkhart County, Indiana. Sharon advised that her husband was driving a 1979 Lincoln with Michigan plates that the following day law enforcement officers located Don's Lincoln abandoned near CR131 south of CR4 in Elkhart County, Indiana. It was observed that trunk was open, the gas cap was removed and smelled as if gasoline had been poured into the passenger compartment of the vehicle. In the trunk a large plastic sheet was observed with a liquid that appeared to be consistent with blood. That plastic sheet was collected by law enforcement. Also located in the trunk was a wallet containing Don's credit cards that on the 21st day of August 1981. Law enforcement officers with the Elkop County Sheriff's department responded to CR131 south of the tollway due to a reported discovery of a dead body. Officers observed the body to be laying on the embankment with the arms and legs tied up. The body was collected and upon examination of dental records it was determined to be the body of Don Wasserman. An autopsy was conducted on Don Wasserman by pathologist Dr. Landgriff. The cause of death was determined to be due to multiple skull fractures caused by severe blunt force trauma and the manner of death was classified as homicide. That officers initially spoke with Robert Sage who advised that he had been contacted by Don's wife and daughter and had been out looking for Donna into the early morning hours. Robert Sage advised that there was no argument between himself and Don but they did have an issue that Don was coming over to discuss but he never shown up. That officers also initially interviewed Daniel Martin who advised that he had arrived at sage residence around 9am to help Robert Sage tear out some walls and floor in the shop. Daniel Martin advised that he got into an argument with Robert Sage and left around noon walking home as he was too drunk to drive. Daniel Martin advised that when he got home he fell asleep for a few hours and call and was called by Robert Sage. Daniel Martin returned to the Sage residence and then left to go look for Don Wasserman. Martin advised he returned to the Sage residence around midnight after not finding Don Wasserman. That in 2025 items of evidence collected during the initial investigation were sent to Indiana State Police laboratory for forensic analysis including the plastic sheet with suspected blood staining on it. That item was examined and determined to contain the DNA profile of a single individual. Through additional testing performed by forensic scientist Joanna Johnson. That individual was determined to be Don Wasserman. That law enforcement officers with the Elk County's homicide unit located and interviewed Daniel Martin on February 27, 2025. Daniel Martin advised that back in 1981 he was involved in the murder of Don Wasserman. Daniel Martin advised that he was called by Robert Sage asking for help with a task but he did not know what the task was prior to arriving at the Sage residence. Upon Martin's arrival, Robert Sage told him that Don Wasserman, Sage's drug dealer was coming over and that Robert Sage owed him a lot of money. Robert Sage also told Martin that Martin owed Sage a lot of money. Daniel Martin advised that if he he did not recall if Robert Sage stated that they were going to kill Wasserman But Sage handed Daniel Martin a gun and told him to wrap the rag around the muzzle to muffle the sound of gunfire. Martin further advised that upon Wasserman's arrival at Sage's property Robert Sage led him into the office of the shop where Daniel Martin was waiting with the firearm. Daniel Martin advised that he held the gun on Wasserman while Robert Sage repeatedly struck Wasserman on the head with what he characterized as a brass hammer. Daniel Martin advised that he help put Wasserman's body in the trunk of the car Wasserman arrived in. Daniel Martin also advised that he helped dump Wasserman's body and then set Wasserman's vehicle on fire. Daniel Martin advised that he did not know that the car did not burn as planned and further advised that he took the brass hammer and ground it down to nothing using a grinder. Martin's admissions are corroborated by factors including but not limited to the results of the autopsy, the condition and location of Wasserman's abandoned vehicle and condition and location of Wasserman's deceased body. End quote. So that is from Lieutenant Kirk. That is the case of Donald Wasserman. I got some additional information from doing some digging online. So and this was predominantly from the South Bend Tribune as well as the Elkhart Truth. Initially this, this gentleman, Donald Wasserman, who was 51 when he died. You know honestly when you're reading the newspapers it doesn't mention drug dealing. And to me it's like this guy being kind of like a middle aged businessman doesn't like scream drug dealer to me. But the thing is people can be involved in the drug trade, you know, from all walks of life. And of course you know, it's not really. And honestly there was some oddness of like no one really seemed to be saying exactly where he worked. They said he was, they talked about how he was missing for days. This was kind of big news in the area as cars found abandoned east of Bristol. This Lincoln Continental he said to have been self employed in the recycling business and he owned a business at W. McKinley and that he had moved to Blair Hills in Mishawaka pretty recently at that point and that he, you know, the car wasn't really his. It was owned by a South Bend doctor and leased to Wasserman and that he had opened this recycling business on August 1st. And remember he went missing in August at the former o' Hare o' Hara Lincoln Mercury building. Then it was like well the silent partners really own it. He just owns the machinery it just seemed kind of odd. Some people speculated this case was related to other things. They talked about. There was like a series of arsons that had happened in Blair Hills where this guy lived at that, that summer. But then, you know, seemingly that's not what they think anymore. They talked about how he. There was another man found murdered in the area at the time. And that guy was, let's see, it was Chips. Yeah, Peter Chips of Dearborn, Michigan. He was found shot to death in a Motel on August 20, 1981. And some people claim that they knew each other. So people were like, oh, maybe they're, they're connected. But that was linked to like some gun running deals and a guy named Robert Mallory, who died in a Florida, Fort Myers, Florida motel by suicide Sept. 28, after police were closing in on him. So that ended up not being leaked. Then it also mentioned Sage. It was actually well known at the time that they had been, you know, there was supposed to be a meeting between them. Sage was arrested on August 28, 1981. Not over this case though, disturbingly. He was arrested over the alleged July 7, 1980 molestation of a 14 year old girl. He ultimately was never charged with that, but that's obviously disturbing. And then in, you know, like shortly after, I think by like that fall, his wife Brenda, Sage's wife Brenda reported him missing. His truck was found with like shot up and with blood in it. So I think some people thought he was murdered, but he wasn't. He was obviously arrested for this murder. Now all these years later and at the time police were like, we pretty much think we know what happened, but we think like a lot of the evidence was washed away by a rainstorm. So I don't know, kind of all over the place with this one. But you know, Robert Sage today is 76, he was arrested in Florida and 71 year old Daniel Martin still lived in Elkart. They're both facing murder charges and you know, it's a horrible thing to, to do to anybody. They basically like took his body after seemingly the car failed to burn or they were just going to burn the car separately I guess. They took his body and they rolled it over a guardrail and down this, you know, down this steep embankment. And the only reason it got found was because a lady, a woman was jogging out there with her dog. The dog jumps over the guardrail, runs down there. The woman's like come back. It's not coming back. She goes down there and it's kind of guarding this very badly decomposed human body. So that's how it ultimately got found. And as for next legal developments, well, in the case of Daniel Martin, they had an initial hearing. The next pretrial conference is May 14, 2026. And then there'll be another one June 11, and the jury trial is set to start in July. So that's. He's. You know, that's what he's facing. And as for the other person, for Robert L. Sage, you know, the. They. For both of them, they actually sealed the information at first because they were concerned that especially Sage would disappear and flee. But, yeah, now they're. I mean, I love stories like this because it's like you can be some old geezer who thinks you got away with everything, and then you know you're gonna get dragged back to Elkhart because of what you did. But obviously they're innocent until proven guilty.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Of course, you know, goes without saying.

[Anya Cain]

But I. I think, you know, it certainly this isn't like a thing where, like, oh, my gosh, we have no idea what happened. Like, everyone's known for years that Sage was the guy he was going to meet for whatever reason. And reading between the lines in the newspapers, they were kind of like, yeah, like, police aren't commenting about the whole Robert Sage angle that we keep asking about. So it's like people knew that that was at least a possibility, a strong possibility. But I guess we'll see where this goes. What's interesting to me is like, you think, okay, they looked at the plastic again and they got these guys DNA on it, but they just actually got the confession from Martin. I wonder if they told them they had DNA and they didn't. What do you think?

[Kevin Greenlee]

That sounds very possible.

[Anya Cain]

Anyways, so that's Indiana for you.

[Kevin Greenlee]

That's Indiana. Indiana wants you. Lord, you can't go back there.

[Anya Cain]

That's a good song reference.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Lots of Indiana songs. Why do you suppose that is?

[Anya Cain]

You know, it's a very place where. It's a very happening place. So people are writing the tunes about it.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Didn't you tell me once you love. Is it Paul Dresser? Is he the Indiana songwriter?

[Anya Cain]

I didn't tell you I loved Paul Dresser.

[Kevin Greenlee]

But isn't he the Indiana songwriter?

[Anya Cain]

He is the Indiana songwriter of many, many years ago.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Many, many years ago.

[Anya Cain]

There's a. A singer, I guess, who calls herself Japanese Breakfast. I like. I really like one of her songs. And she has another song called Kokomo Indiana. So it's. It stays relevant. Yeah, I thought you are still inspired by Indiana.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I thought you were veering Off.

[Anya Cain]

And you thought I was having a stroke or something?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes.

[Anya Cain]

What is she saying?

[Kevin Greenlee]

That's just. Yeah, that's just the typical experience of recording with you. You're going to say something bizarre, and I'm like, what is she saying?

[Anya Cain]

Oh, my gosh. You just don't understand me.

[Kevin Greenlee]

But I appreciate you.

[Anya Cain]

Thank you.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Now, Anya, before I get into this Minnesota case, before I get into the facts and details of it, I'm just curious if I can get your opinion on a couple of things.

[Anya Cain]

I'm happy to give it.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Let's talk about phones. You carry your phone with you wherever you go, as do a lot of people in this day and age. And our phones, because of that, they track where we go. So even if you go somewhere embarrassing, it's tracked. If we look at your phone data and find that you're, like, hanging out in the cereal aisle of a grocery store, if you're spending hours in a hat shop, all of these things are tracked by your phone and by your phone data, which obviously is going to tech giants like Google.

[Anya Cain]

Right?

[Kevin Greenlee]

So I'm curious, Ms. Kane, do you feel that that phone data is something that should be considered private, or do you feel, well, I'm already sharing all of this embarrassing information about myself with Google, so I have no privacy interest there.

[Anya Cain]

I, I, I'm not smart enough for this question. Honestly, I feel like, in general, I would probably be more comfortable with things being private, so.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Because you, you, you would argue that your, your location data, if it got out, is potentially so humiliating.

[Anya Cain]

I'm not.

[Kevin Greenlee]

If people found out where you were, it would probably destroy you.

[Anya Cain]

Okay. So, because I carry around my phone for two reasons. One, to track my steps. Two, so I can shazam things easily and get my, get the tunes I like so I can know what they are so that I'm not doing anything embarrassing, I would be proud to show my phone data everywhere. Except I don't want to dox myself, so I'm not going to fall for that trap.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Interesting. Yeah, you talk your way around.

[Anya Cain]

I chess mastered you.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So this is, as I say, it's a Minnesota case. It's the case of a man. I apologize if I mispronounce his name. I almost surely will. Ivan Contrisas Sanchez. And it's a case involving whether or not a geofence warrant is okay. Do you know what a geofence warrant is?

[Anya Cain]

Vaguely.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So it's basically, let's say we know that a grocery store was robbed. We don't know who did it. We go to Google or whatever, and say we want the data on all of the phones that were within this grocery store at the time of the robbery, that sort of thing.

[Anya Cain]

Okay?

[Kevin Greenlee]

And so some people might argue that that's too broad and that would impact the privacy of too many people who have nothing to do with the crime. And some people would say, no, it's fine, because you're established that there's probable cause that the person who did this probably was carrying his phone at the time. So that data would lead to us finding out who did it. And other people would like make the argument I made before, which is that if you're sharing your location data with a third party, such as a giant tech company, maybe you have no privacy interest in it at all. And so this is a case where a body was found in a culvert and the police went to Google and said, we want the geofence data of all the people who were in the vicinity of this culvert, I think like in a two week period because it's a relatively low traveled area. And then they said, and then once we get this data, what we want to do is analyze it and decide which one of these people who were there is most likely to have something to do with the crime. And then we want to go back to you, Google, and get a lot more information about those particular devices. So that was done. And they ascertained that the device belonging to Mr. Contrasas Sanchez spent a lot of time in that area and in fact made multiple visits to that area. They got more information from Google about his device. And ultimately he's, you know, he's arrested and convicted of this crime. And so the question is, first of all, are geofence warrants okay? And secondly, is this particular warrant okay? And I'll tell you what this court honed in on was one particular aspect of it, which was the fact that the police would have the ability to see all this data connected to all of the devices were there, and they would then have the ability on their own to point to a particular device and say, okay, I want more information about that. They don't go back to a judge and say, okay, this is the device we think we have more information on. This is the device we want to get more information on. They just decide that on their own. And their determination was that's too much power for the police to have because they would, under the way this particular warrant was written, they could point to any device that was there, even if it was a device belonging to someone with no connection to the crime and get more location information. And this court ruled that that is inappropriate. It gives too much power and discretion to the police. They should have had a judge review their analysis and make sure it was appropriate to get this additional information about that one device. What do you think?

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, I mean, when you were initially describing it, I was kind of like, what's the problem there? That seems like just good police work. And so what. What you're noting, though, is that they're not saying that you can't geofence. They're saying that you should check back with judges during the process of doing this. Is that what I'm hearing?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, basically, in this situation, they got multiple devices were in this area and they did their own analysis and said, okay, we think this particular device is the one that belongs to the killer. And then they just go back and say, we want more information about this particular device. They don't get a judge to agree with them. They don't get a judge to say, you have probable cause that this one particular device is more likely than the others to be involved in this crime. And so because of this, they could have asked for any of the devices that were there to get more information. And this, this. It's at some level that's a violation of our privacy rights. Because I, I would certainly agree that we do have a privacy interest in our location data. And if that's what you believe, then you would have to agree that in order for that to be turned over to police, there has to be some sort of determination that there was a rational reason for that. Over and above a determination the police just make on their own without judicial review. Does that make sense?

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, it makes sense. What's the status of this case now? Like, are they just. Are they going to have to basically free this guy? Because essentially they, they got the geofence in a way that the, the judiciary is like this. This wasn't appropriate.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, this warrant has been thrown out. So now it's going to go back down to the court of appeals and it will be up to the court of appeals to decide what the answer to be, what we should do with this information. The court of appeals might say, well, because this warrant is bad, we need to throw the evidence out and maybe even have a whole new trial.

[Anya Cain]

Fruit of the poisonous tree.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Or the court of appeals could say, well, there is this exclusionary rule which we are all aware of, which is that if something was procured through unlawful or inappropriate means by law enforcement, it's thrown out of the trial. But There is something called the good faith exception to that, which is that if the law enforcement officers are not bad actors, if they're generally trying to do their best and do the right thing, and they rely on something they shouldn't have relied on, they relied on something in good faith that turns out not to be true, then it's not thrown out. And so the court of appeals might look at this and say, well, these officers were relying on a warrant that included this provision that shouldn't have been in there, but that warrant was signed by a judge, so they were acting in good faith, so maybe this shouldn't be thrown out.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, okay. Yeah. I mean, it's. It's definitely interesting. And, you know, honestly, anything that bolsters privacy protections for people, I think is probably a good thing. You know, I don't like the idea of someone walking over this, to be honest. But at the same time, it's not just about one case. It's kind of about how all of us move through society. I have concerns about the level of constant surveillance everyone's under all the time, even though I appreciate that that can somehow solve. Can sometimes solve murders. It just seems like, you know, we're kind of. We're kind of veering into a future that could have some pretty severe ramifications. So, you know, I think it makes sense that a court is looking at that aspect of it and saying, like, let's make sure we're being more stringent upon how we. What. What needs to happen in order to get some of this stuff.

[Kevin Greenlee]

One thing that's kind of interesting is the Supreme Court will soon be ruling on this issue, more or less. And so in the dissent to the majority opinion, they're like, what are we doing? Why don't we just wait and let the Supreme Court rule? Which, I mean, is not a bad point. Why rush to make a state decision when there is the possibility that the Supreme Court will be issuing a decision that will be binding for all of us in a few weeks or a few months?

[Anya Cain]

Is the Supreme Court expected to go one way or another?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Who knows? But the majority says, well, we don't want to give up our responsibility. We have a responsibility to the citizens and to the state. We're not just going to say, I agree with them.

[Anya Cain]

They do. You know, I agree with Minnesota on that one. You know, they're like, I mean, yeah, until they disagree with us, we're gonna say what we think.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So you're with them?

[Anya Cain]

I mean, yeah, again, like, I.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You stand with the majority of the Minnesota.

[Anya Cain]

I just think. I think they're right to rule on it and do what they think is right. So that's. That's Minnesota.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Now you. Did you say you're going to Kentucky at this point? Great state of Kentucky, the home of the Kentucky Derby and the birthplace of Abraham Lincoln and the Louisville Belle.

[Anya Cain]

What is that something I wasn't born. That was a ship. It was made.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, it's home there. We once rode a ship in Louisville at your behest.

[Anya Cain]

Yes. I thought it would be cool.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah. And then we went to another boat that is like, kind of dry docked there and had fish.

[Anya Cain]

Mm. Was that a boat?

[Kevin Greenlee]

It, like, used to be a boat. Right. And it was on the river.

[Anya Cain]

I don't remember that. I thought it was like a nautical themed restaurant. I could have just been not paying attention. As often happens, you just let me

[Kevin Greenlee]

choose whatever fish places we go to.

[Anya Cain]

That would be very easy to Shanghai, because I just wouldn't even know I was getting on a boat. I would just think it was a nautical themed restaurant.

[Kevin Greenlee]

They'd never be seen again.

[Nicholas (dog)]

Yeah. Hey.

[Anya Cain]

Thought this was a Red Lobster. Okay. So, yeah, we're going to Kentucky. And my source for this is W L K Y. And I do appreciate the listener who flagged this with us and let us know about it. Always appreciate the listeners who tell us what you think would be an interesting episode, you know, would be a good case to cover on an episode of Cheat Sheet. So this is a very sad story. This involves a gentleman from Lexington named Gyrona Parker, known as JD, and he was from Lexington, Kentucky. In October of 2025, he disappeared. And this is something that really upset his family. They really wanted to find him and save him. Jairana Parker, or jd, was a veteran, served in the United States military. And they were just, you know, they were trying to find him before it was too late. But unfortunately, on March 22, the Clarksville Police Department of Clarksville, Indiana, announced that Gyrona Parker had been found dead in the Kentucky River. And this, again, was. Was so devastating to his family who had been really trying to find him. So what happened as a result of this utter tragedy is that JD's son, Jerome Parker, he is a person with a lot of expertise, unlike me. He gets technology. He gets how to build different systems. He's a software engineer by training. He's a software engineer professionally. And he took. Took this awful and traumatizing experience of being someone searching for a missing loved one. And he built a platform that is seeking to help other families who find themselves in that situation. And what this is intent. He's calling it the JD Project. It's also known as Project Aziz, and I will be linking to it in the show notes. And, you know, I know we have listeners who either are victims, relatives, or have missing relatives. And this is something that maybe some of them can use, or if you talk to someone who has an ongoing case, maybe you can recommend it to them. They might find it helpful. And. And, sorry, it was the. It was the Ohio River. I don't know if it's called the Kentucky river, but that may be a typo in this article that I'm looking at. But so the JD Project, you can sign up on the website, and anyone can sign up. It could be family members, people in a community, law enforcement officers. And what the site is supposed to do is, you know, set up cameras. You know, you can set up cameras and that can go to these feeds. You can add photos of the person. You can set up a search party. Because what Jairon Parker experienced was very much like, it's hard to get everything moving in a way that's, like, easy to manage. It's like people aren't talking to each other. Search parties may not be talking to each other. It's like it gets chaotic really fast. And so this is a way to kind of prevent that chaos from swamping other efforts. You can upload videos, upload photos, upload information on the missing person. You can map out different search parties and efforts and also make sure that local law enforcement is getting specific tips. And, you know, when he was. When he was actually actively searching for jd, his dad, he was setting up, like, things like AI cameras, microphones. He trained those on his dad's image and voice, and he kind of, like, set those up around Lexington just to see if, like, he might pick up his dad's image or voice somewhere. And, you know, unfortunately, that did not work. But he's kind of putting that trauma to a higher cause by trying to alleviate pain for families in the future when they're going through this, and perhaps even in some cases. The goal, obviously, in any situation like this is to bring back the person alive if they're out there, if they're having a mental health crisis, if they're having a medical episode, if they are suffering from something like dementia or have wandered off or who have eloped for whatever reason. If there can be any tools that can help bring them back, it's tools that are benefiting the families and making the search efforts easier. So I really commend Jerome Parker. I hope that people can find this JD Project service helpful. Again. We'll be including the link and we appreciate the listener who raised this to our attention. And my condolences to Mr. Parker and his whole family for the loss of JD. That's unimaginable. And I just again, commend him for the work he's doing trying to bring this all together. Because nobody signs up for having a loved one go. Goes. Go missing. No one can prepare for it. You know, and it's chaos. It's fast moving. You have to deal with all these different things. People are trying to help. But you may feel like so swamped you're not able to direct those resources in the great. In a great way. And having solutions for that is something that could really help a lot of people out. I think so. Yeah. That's Kentucky.

[Kevin Greenlee]

That sounds very interesting.

[Anya Cain]

Thank you.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So we've not yet had an opportunity to do our cornhole contest.

[Anya Cain]

No.

[Kevin Greenlee]

But I've seen Indiana's. According to this website, Indiana's ultimate cornhole destination is coming soon.

[Anya Cain]

Wait, coming where?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Coming to Hamilton County, Indiana. Baggerstown. So I think.

[Anya Cain]

So you found your cornhole patch. In other words, why do you say patch? Oh my gosh.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I found a good location where we might play cornhole on a cornhole board in a regulation manner. Patch. I don't know what you mean. It's called Baggerstown. It says it's coming to me.

[Anya Cain]

Steam is coming out of my ears.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think when this place opens, we have to hit Baggerstown. We have to hit bat and play some cornhole. Are you with me?

[Anya Cain]

I think you're insane. I'm gonna hit Baggerstown.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah.

[Anya Cain]

Okay.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And we see once and for all who will have the cornhole on the.

[Grainger Announcer]

Yeah.

[Anya Cain]

Your strategy is just gonna be exact. Say such exasperating things that I'm like off my game. Gonna be saying all sorts of weird stuff on the way there. And then I'm just gonna be like, dying.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, yeah? No idea? Yeah. You were searching for a cornhole patch until a few minutes ago.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I don't know what you mean. A cornhole patch? Do you not understand what the game is?

[Nicholas (dog)]

No one can see him, but he's got this smirk on his face.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I don't know what you're talking about.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, so freaking ridiculous.

[Kevin Greenlee]

When you say things like that, it makes me think you don't even understand what cornhole is.

[Nicholas (dog)]

Oh my gosh.

[Anya Cain]

Just shaking my head. That's all that's happening now.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You got a new pair of sunglasses this week.

[Anya Cain]

Is that our anecdote? That is just sad.

[Kevin Greenlee]

That's all we got.

[Anya Cain]

Nothing's happening. Nothing's going on. Nicholas's behavior continues to improve. I guess that's what an update. He's a very good little gentleman, but he's also like the softest boy in existence. Like, we go on a walk now and I guess because he's part husky, in fairness, but like, it gets hotter out. I hate how hot it gets in the spring. I'm not a fan. Like, you know, can't we have just enjoy some temperate temperatures? But he'll like, he'll like be like lying under the shade. And we brought him like a little. We got him a whole little doggy water bottle that we bring with him. But he's so, he, he acts like he's scared of that. It's like, oh, come on.

[Nicholas (dog)]

Remember that today he was all, what is that?

[Anya Cain]

It's like, it's a water bottle for you. You previously drank from it. He's all like, trauma. He goes on a lot of walks every day. But it's been great because I'm going to tell you, here's a mental health tip, folks. Go on a walk if you can, if you're able to. Walking around the block is really, really great. Would you say that?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Sure.

[Anya Cain]

You were saying that. Don't be looking at me like I'm crazy.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I'm not.

[Anya Cain]

Cornhole patch is our walking training for the cornhole competition.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, I think I'm probably.

[Anya Cain]

I don't think it involves much walking though.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Are you going to wear your sunglasses at Baggerstown?

[Anya Cain]

I feel like you must be pronouncing that wrong.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So you'd call it beggarstown. I mean, it's the word bagger. Okay.

[Anya Cain]

I just never heard.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I know you don't understand what cornhole is because of this patch nonsense, but you, you throw bags.

[Anya Cain]

So I just have this image of you walking around like small town Main Street, Indiana, popping your head into local businesses with like really weird, scary bug eyes and being like, like, where's your cornhole patch, sir? And people just like slamming the door,

[Nicholas (dog)]

like, who is that guy?

[Anya Cain]

What's going on?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, you're not making any sense.

[Anya Cain]

No, I think that's something that a lot of people could picture in their minds. And of course, I think the listeners are all picturing it right now.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Unlike you, I can't get sunglasses because a doctor told me once I'd look too cool and it would cause, like, traffic accidents as people would be like, stopping to stare. But you. I encourage you. I encourage you to wear sunglasses while you're doing cornhole. Especially if we can get a dark room at Baggerstown.

[Anya Cain]

Wait, you think cornhole's gonna be played indoors in Baggerstown?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I don't really.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, I guess you don't understand the sport.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, wouldn't it be played indoors at Baggerstown? No, you just think Baggerstown is gonna be like an open field somewhere.

[Anya Cain]

I don't know what's going on right now. For all I know, you made this town up.

[Nicholas (dog)]

That's the level of credibility you have

[Anya Cain]

with me right now.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It's not a town, it's a city. No, it's like a business that's going to be opening up soon. Offering cornhole.

[Anya Cain]

Well, you were acting like. Well, when you said, oh, Baggerstown in Hamilton County, I would thought you were talking about, like, a town.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I didn't know if you wanted me to give you, like, the address of the place.

[Nicholas (dog)]

I don't want the address. And I was like, that's ironic because you used beanbags in cornhole. I was like, how have we not heard about this location before?

[Kevin Greenlee]

You're so confused.

[Nicholas (dog)]

You're confusing me.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And it says here 18 indoor cornhole courts.

[Anya Cain]

Okay, fine. I didn't know come here to toss

[Kevin Greenlee]

a few bags with flowers.

[Anya Cain]

Well, of course an indoor cornhole business is gon have indoor cornhole. But usually when I've seen it, it's been played outside when people are drunk at a tailgate.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Also, they have shuffleboard, ping pong, darts and pool.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, great. We can watch the arc where Kevin becomes a pool shark. That'll end well, folks.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Keep the good times rolling long after the last bag drops. So you thought it was just a coincidence that Baggerstown was having.

[Anya Cain]

It just sounded like a place in Indiana. Honestly. Oh, gosh. Can we just. Can we leave these people? Let them get back to their weekend. He's like, doing research right now.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, you seem confused. I'm just trying to give you information. It's coming soon to a town called Noblesville in Indiana.

[Anya Cain]

A town called Noblesville. Okay, well, I guess we're gonna now we're like, legally obligated that we've talked about it this much on the podcast to go there and play cornhole and wear your sunglasses.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Especially again if the lighting is dim, because I think that would help your play.

[Anya Cain]

Maybe you should wear your bifocals

[Kevin Greenlee]

so I. I can see things extra clearly. And extra crisply to further dominate and humiliate you. I'd be glad to do it, sir.

[Anya Cain]

I mean, I'm not. I don't know if you have that much of a good track record with beating me at stuff like this.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, you're the one that sounds nervous and trying to back out of it.

[Anya Cain]

Need I remind you? Well, that's because I just. I think this whole thing is insane. But, you know, I feel like I've definitely bested you at topgolf a couple times.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We seem to be pretty evenly matched.

[Anya Cain]

We're pretty evenly matched. Yeah. We're like. We're like each other's Moriarty and Holmes. Except instead of falling off the Reichenbach Falls, we're gonna fall into the nets at golf. Topgolf. It's inevitable. But, yeah, both of us actually. Let's just be honest, both of us suck at topgolf.

[Kevin Greenlee]

What happens topgolf, and correct me if I'm wrong, is one of us always starts out playing very well, and the other one starts out playing awfully. And then the person who starts out well gets worse and worse. The person who starts out playing awfully gets better and better.

[Anya Cain]

It's very bizarre, but it always happens. But I think what I'm saying, what I'm trying to say is, like, I think one thing we learned was that when we went and played with our friends who humiliated us, have not been back since they were playing, like, at a normal level. And what we realized we was. We're not very good at tom golf.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And so when you. When you say you have a history of dominating.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. Just you, not other people.

[Kevin Greenlee]

No, we were pretty evenly matched. So this. This will make it quite.

[Anya Cain]

I definitely embarrassed you a couple of times or two ago. Topgolf.

[Kevin Greenlee]

This will be quite the cornhole contest at the indoor court, not a patch.

[Anya Cain]

Baggerstown, usa.

[Nicholas (dog)]

A place that I thought was a real town. I was imagining you go down like

[Anya Cain]

a street in Indiana. It's like a mayor of Baggerstown. I guess we're both competing to be the mayor. This is not real place. I'm like.

[Nicholas (dog)]

First I was about to be like,

[Anya Cain]

is it an unincorporated community? You could have kept me going.

[Nicholas (dog)]

I would have been like, I can't find it on Google Maps. Kevin.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, my gosh. All right, well, everyone have a lovely, lovely weekend. And, you know, I hope you dominate your friends and family at Baggerstown when it opens or at whatever you seek to do or cornhole or whatever.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Thanks so much for listening to the murder sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email [e-mail] if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[Anya Cain]

If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com murdersheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www. Buymeacoffee.com murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the [e-mail] if you're looking to talk with

[Anya Cain]

other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet Discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Warning the following ZipRecruiter radio spot you are about to hear is going to be filled with F words.

[ZipRecruiter Announcer]

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[Anya Cain]

Fantastic.

[ZipRecruiter Announcer]

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