The Cheat Sheet: Housekeepers and Hospitals

Summary

Murder Sheet: The Cheat Sheet – Housekeepers and Hospitals

Release Date: November 14, 2025
Hosts: Áine (Anya) Cain (Journalist), Kevin Greenlee (Attorney)

Episode Overview

In this "Cheat Sheet" installment, Anya Cain and Kevin Greenlee provide a roundup of major true crime stories with a particular focus on recent developments involving housekeepers, hospitals, and tragic cases spanning New York, Indiana, California, and Ohio. The conversation weaves in commentary about the broader implications of the criminal justice system, stand-your-ground laws, and systemic failures in mental health care, while also highlighting ongoing debates and public reactions to each event.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Kings Park Psychiatric Hospital Case (New York, Suffolk County)

Starts at ~05:35

• Background:
  • Kings Park is a well-known abandoned psychiatric hospital on Long Island, infamous for its eerie, graffiti-laden buildings that attract urban explorers.
  • The area’s neglected mental health history is discussed, with Anya noting the tragic outcomes of deinstitutionalization.
  • "[W]e need to stop this. And like, most well intentioned moral crusades, it just... stopped it, but it didn’t really stop negative outcomes for children with intellectual disabilities or mental health concerns." (08:56 - Anya Cain)
• Featured Case:
  • Victim: Ann Lustig, a 69-year-old mother and grandmother living in a group home and psychiatric patient.
  • Incident (1997): Disappeared after leaving Kings Park hospital for an appointment; body found the next day. She was kidnapped, raped, and murdered.
  • Recent Break: New DNA analysis from evidence (a “mysterious smudge” on her sweatshirt) matched Steve Briek, a parolee and prior suspect, now deceased.
  • Law Enforcement Response: Suffolk County DA Ray Tierney credited the recent momentum and cross-case task force efforts post-Gilgo Beach (Rex Heuermann) investigation.
  • Broader Takeaway: Emphasizes that people with mental illnesses are more often victims than perpetrators of violent crime.

Notable Quote

"This case underscores that when we talk about mental health and mental illness, oftentimes it’s portrayed as if someone mentally ill is going to be the perpetrator. But more often than not, they’re going to be the victim of a violent crime." (13:37 – Anya Cain)

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2. Cleaning Crew Tragedy (Indiana)

Starts at ~20:24

• Incident:
  • Maria Perez and her husband, both self-employed cleaners, mistaken address; as they attempt entry, the homeowner shoots through the door, killing Maria.
• Legal Context:
  • Indiana’s “Stand Your Ground” law gives broad latitude for self-defense if a homeowner feels threatened.
  • Kevin explains the legal hurdles: "It all boils down to reasonable. And that means the prosecutor... would have the burden to prove that what happened was not reasonable." (22:04)
• Debate:
  • Anya expresses outrage at the permissiveness of the law:

    “If our laws are structured in a way where this is okay, where a woman can be shot for going to the wrong house... then we need to change our laws in Indiana because that's a disgrace.” (24:37)

  • Both hosts agree that while the event is morally wrong, prosecution under current law may be impossible.
• Emotional Impact:
  • Anya: “How much of a fricking coward do you have to be to shoot first and ask questions later when someone comes to your door? ...How soft are you?” (34:40)
• Community & Societal Reactions
  • Hosts urge listeners to focus anger at lawmakers, not just prosecutors.
  • Broader context: Stand your ground laws are often used with tragic, sometimes racially charged, consequences.

Notable Quotes

• "If the prosecutor concludes that under our law, I don't feel confident I have a case here, that ultimately is not his fault. It's the fault of the law..." (26:13 – Kevin Greenlee)
• "It's appalling the idea that these people would not get justice." (29:21 – Anya Cain)
• "If you're angry, be angry. I encourage you to be angry. But be angry at the legislatures..." (33:11 – Kevin Greenlee)

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3. Celebrity, Social Media, and a Teenager's Death (California)

Starts at ~40:26

• Case:
  • Victim: Celeste Rivas Hernandez, 14, disappeared after reportedly running away in April 2024; had past connection to 20-year-old musician David Anthony Burke ("D4VD").
  • Discovery: Her body, badly decomposed, was found in the trunk of a Tesla near a house Burke had rented.
  • Current Status:
    • No cause or manner of death released yet; police unable to charge homicide without further evidence.
    • Suspicion of foul play is fuelled by internet sleuthing and Burke’s sudden disappearance from the public eye.
  • Reflection: Hosts note the failures of support systems for vulnerable youth and the challenges law enforcement faces with digital evidence and public expectations.

Notable Quote

“She was just a teenager and it just sounds like a lot of, a lot of things failed her in this life.” (46:15 – Anya Cain)

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4. Sextortion and a Murder-Suicide Attempt (Ohio)

Starts at ~48:32

• Incident:
  • 76-year-old James Hill, after being sextorted over nude photos sent via dating app, decides the only way out is to kill himself and his wife, Mary Hill (64).
  • He fatally stabs his wife (from behind, during a shoulder rub), attempts to kill their dog, then himself (unsuccessfully).
• Analysis:
  • Hosts dissect the irrationality and selfishness behind Hill’s actions, contrasting it with reasonable alternatives.
  • "Can you imagine that poor woman, she's having a loving touch from her husband...and then the knife to the chest." (52:51 – Kevin Greenlee)
  • Anya speculates prior controlling tendencies, noting this behavior "doesn’t come out of nowhere."
• Advice:
  • Both hosts urge honesty and seeking help, rather than taking extreme or violent measures under pressure.

Notable Quotes

• "It’s ridiculous. There’s no...this is like a hissy fit almost for an adult man..." (54:44 – Anya Cain)
• "Own up to your mistakes." (55:51 – Anya Cain)

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5. Legal Oddity: Carroll County Journalist Charged (Indiana)

Starts at ~56:49

• Story:
  • Holly Eitenmiller, former editor of the Carroll County Comet, is charged with offenses after allegedly facilitating (and participating in) the removal of items from the Chamber of Commerce building after hours.
  • Items taken: antiques, office chair, overhead projector, a laptop (the latter personalized and technically "borrowed" without permission).
• Relevance:
  • While inside baseball, hosts note it as a striking local news aberration but stress it doesn’t reflect on the publication.
  • Anya: “That's a nightmare hire right there. Not only are you literally stealing from the community you're supposed to be covering...”

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Additional Memorable Moments & Timestamps

• Discussion of psychiatric hospitals and the legacy of deinstitutionalization:
  “[W]e need to stop this. And like, most well intentioned moral crusades, it just... stopped it, but it didn’t really stop negative outcomes...” (08:56)
• Debate over justifications for shooting through a door:
  “I'm not a big believer in shoot first, ask questions later in general, but if they were in the house... I could understand that more...” (27:49 – Anya)
• Legal analysis on 'stand your ground' implications:
  “Those facts may end up being absolutely determinative..." (31:27 – Kevin)
• Sardonic banter about founding a “Supreme Podcaster Court”:
  (47:55) “I'm not even counting on that. I'm just saying when I die, the headline of my obituary will be he never served on the Supreme Court.” (Kevin/Anya, playful segment)
• Tips for listeners:
  “Don’t be sending nudes to people, especially nudes that are identifiable to you. So that’s my tip for the day.” (55:42 – Kevin Greenlee)

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Recurring Themes & Tone

• Tone: Candid, direct, occasionally sardonic, always focused on broader legal/societal context and the human stories behind the crimes.
• Themes:
  • Systemic failures and the law’s limitations (especially regarding mental health and stand your ground rules)
  • Victims’ humanity and empathy for both those harmed and occasionally those who perpetrate
  • Frustration with slow or illogical legal progress and misguided public outrage toward individuals rather than systems

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Summary Takeaways

• Investigative updates: Cold cases can be advanced with new forensic techniques and energetic leadership (as in Long Island/Suffolk County).
• Law & Morality: Stand your ground laws and self-defense statutes are deeply flawed and create outcomes that feel unjust, yet may be fully legal.
• Personal Responsibility: Succumbing to fear or shame with violence (as in Ohio) is inexcusable, and empathy must always be joined with a call for accountability.
• Outliers in True Crime Reporting: Even reputable organizations can have surprising side stories—transparency and community reporting remain vital.

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For Further Listening

• Indiana Historical Society Event: Anya and Kevin promote their book and invite listeners to their December 6th appearance.
• Call to Action: Listeners are encouraged to direct advocacy toward lawmakers, support robust local journalism, and, most importantly, remember the humanity lost in each tragic case.

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End of summary.

Transcript

[Anya Cain]

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[Kevin Greenlee]

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[Anya Cain]

As the temperatures drop, I'm once again returning to my favorites. My black V neck sweater and a dark blue turtleneck sweater, both in Mongolian cashmere. I just love wearing them. I love how they feel. But I'm also mixing things up with two new purchases. One is my Mongolian cashmere fisherman crewneck sweater in ivory. It's so cozy and soft. And the other is a black 100% washable silk long sleeve mini dress that's for the holidays when I'm feeling fancy.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I love my two new quince sweaters too. They're warm and they keep me comfortable against the autumn chill. Check them out. Also, Anya has a delightful blue beret that I love and she's begun to wear.

[Anya Cain]

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[Anya Cain]

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[Anya Cain]

Hi, I'm Anya. And today on the murder Sheet, we're going to talk about a hot button story happening in our home state. Case of sextortion, a celebrity murder investigation and a cold case homicide solve. Content warning. This episode includes discussion of suicide, murder, rape and violence, including the possible murder of a child.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So this week on the Chi Chi, we're going to cover a number of cases as is our custom. On this week's Whatever. I'm already stumbling. Jesus, it's just right out the gate. I think everybody's probably excited because the promotion stuff is over. So that means no more story time. That burden, that yoke has been lifted from us all. So with that in mind, should we get to it?

[Anya Cain]

My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

[Anya Cain]

And this is the murder sheet.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews and deep dives into murder cases. We're the murder sheet.

[Anya Cain]

And this is the cheat sheet. Housekeepers and hospitals.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think the cane train this week is going to embark from the Empire State. The Empire State?

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. Not of the north, not of the east, just the Empire State.

[Kevin Greenlee]

The Empire State. Your home state. And as a case, we have kind of a tangential connection to, but I don't know if we can get into that. Since we said no more stories, I.

[Anya Cain]

Think I can break the rules a little Bit here. So this is out of New York. This is out of Long Island, A disturbing case. And it's out of Kings Park, New York, which is on Long Island. And for those of you who may know a little bit about Long Island, a little bit about this part of Long island is that King's park is known for the Kings Park Psychiatric Center. And this is a former state run psychiatric hospital. It's a massive sprawling campus and it now sits abandoned. Its buildings with, on the inside are all graffiti strewn and kind of horrifying and, and people sometimes go there and do quote unquote, urban exploring, AKA trespassing.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And of course that's a terrible thing to do. No one should do that.

[Anya Cain]

I would not be able to confirm or deny that some of your favorite podcasters may have engaged in such activities on a number of occasions while they were living in Brooklyn.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I mean, the buildings are right there. What are you supposed to do?

[Anya Cain]

No, no, no, we're not confirming or denying anything.

[Kevin Greenlee]

There's not the no stories.

[Anya Cain]

This is all very hypothetical. You should have been like, why are you, why are you snitching on Brett and Alice, the two favorite podcasts? No, you know, but we cannot confirm and deny. But there are there. The buildings are kind of scary and sometimes if you go up high in the buildings, you worry like, oh my God, is this thing going to collapse and am I going to die? And that would be kind of an embarrassing way to die. Or what if I encounter some, you know, dangerous person here? But you know, but yeah, that we wouldn't know anything about that.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Buildings are right there.

[Anya Cain]

Know anything apparently, like destroying them or like just imploding them might like, I, I may have this wrong, but I'm gonna say it anyway. Like I thought we looked into this once and it was like it would just release a cloud of asbestos. So like just consume all of Long Island.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So, and like ghosts, ghosts come out.

[Anya Cain]

If you destroy the buildings, ghosts might come out. There might be all sorts of things that happen.

[Kevin Greenlee]

But demons.

[Anya Cain]

There used to be these state run psychiatric hospitals and you know, over the course of the 80s 90s, 2000s, these were largely closed. And the transition was supposed to be towards community based care, putting mentally ill.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And as I recall, we were like very normal, happy people. And whether or not we visited this hospital or not, like afterwards, suddenly we become very morbid, very interested in crime. Do you think we were possessed?

[Anya Cain]

Speak for yourself. I've always been morbid and interested in crime. It's one of my defining characteristics. Well, you know, you know, it makes me sad to see these things because I don't know about Kings park, but a lot of them could be, you know, abusive places for the mentally ill where people were mistreated and neglected and warehoused at the same time. People are also abused and neglected and mistreated, like in the streets where they live now or like in small, tiny group homes that are probably worse than Willowbrook but no one will ever hear of because there's like no incentive to do oversight here.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Do people know what Willowbrook is?

[Anya Cain]

Willowbrook was another, I guess, mental hospital. Geraldo Rivera did a famous expose revealing that mentally ill children were being mistreated there and neglected and abused. Very horrifying revelations came out of there. And it was sort of seen as this, like, we need to stop this. And like, you know, most well intentioned moral crusades, it just, it stopped it, but it didn't really stop negative outcomes for children with dis, you know, intellectual disabilities or mental health concerns. Now, now nothing is now there's basically no, very few resources for families who need it. At least in, in many, in many areas there's just like nowhere to go and nowhere to help people. So the lesson we took from these places, not being perfect and not being, being terrible in some cases is, you know, let's save a bunch of money and just leave it all to, you know, the families for the most part have to foot the bill for this and deal with stuff and deal with getting Medicaid waivers and all this stuff. And so I don't think things have improved. They've just changed. And it's, it's, you know, people who have, people who have the most severe disabilities, who have the most severe needs, are the most underserved by the new systems. Because sometimes I think having a place where they could actually go live would be safer than, than what we have now, which is like go live in a group home that can't accommodate somebody's needs and then you run away and then, you know, people get hurt that way.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So what is your source for the story you're going to share today about this particular facility?

[Anya Cain]

My sources for this are NBC New York and CBS News. And we've heard about a lot of cases out of Suffolk county, namely because the Rex Heuerman situation. Rex Heuerman, of course, is an accused serial killer who's facing trial for murdering a number of sex workers, women who went missing that then their bodies were found dumped in and around Long island, including Gilgo beach in Suffolk county, an area where I have A lot of family members. So shout out to the, to the Long island fam. And it's kind of been one of those cases that haunted Long island for a long time. And then he was arrested. There was DNA matches. And now Suffolk County District Attorney Ray Tierney had the following to say about this latest case. He, he basically said that, you know, like that there was this. Following the success of Gilgo beach homicide investigation, the murder of Ann Lustig was one of the first cases that was examined by the task force. There's a task force assembled in Suffolk county to look at some of these cold cases. And this was the one they tackled next. So they're using the momentum they got from the Long island serial case, which is still pending, but there were these DNA revelations around it. They're going on to the next case and saying, let's do some of the same procedures in order to get this one solved. So that's great to see the momentum. It's not just this one high profile case that we're doing. We're doing, you know, all the cases. And this is the murder of Ann Lustig. She was a mother, she was a grandmother. She was 69 years old and she was living in a group home on Long island, and she was a patient at Kings Park State Psychiatric Hospital. Her being in a group home and being a patient there indicates perhaps there were some mental health concerns. And this case underscores that when we talk about mental health and mental illness, oftentimes it's portrayed as if someone mentally ill is going to be the perpetrator. But more often than not, they're going to be the victim of a violent crime. And that's certainly, unfortunately what happened here to Ms. Lustig. She was, you know, so she, she basically, I think she disappeared on February 18, 1997. She was supposed to go to this appointment at Kings Park State Psychiatric Hospital. She left, she got in a cab, she went to the hospital, had her appointment. But she, I mean, I guess she was at the hospital, but she was reported missing from the hospital. So I don't like she left or something happened. And then the following day her body was found in Calverton in Suffolk County, New York. And she had been kidnapped, she had been raped, and she had been unfortunately murdered. So for years it was just, who did this? How could this have happened to this girl, grandmother, this woman who was seeking care, but was, was sort of snatched from the hospital potentially. And what was found in the evidence was that Lustig had a sweatshirt on her at, you know, when she was found and there was this mysterious smudge on that. And tech, you know, people, the, the, the task force had that tested once again and they actually got DNA off of the smudge. And, and that DNA matched to the DNA of an offender. And that offender was a man named Steve Briek. And he was somebody who was on parole at the time. Now he actually was a suspect in the case. His van was seen near the woods where the body was discovered. There just was never enough to make an arrest. And, you know, there was also another case where an 82 year old woman had been kidnapped from Kings park, taken away in a van. She survived. So there's this possibility that he also did that. So he unfortunately died in 2014, so they cannot prosecute him, but they were able to, you know, get the DNA match of this convicted criminal on her sweatshirt. And they feel like at this point, had he been alive, we would be charging him with her murder. Which seems fair.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It does.

[Anya Cain]

So Very sad that he was not able to face accountability. But I'm very glad that Ray Tierney, the Suffolk County District Attorney, you know, has put these resources and put these things together for these cases and that law enforcement is continuing to work them and hopefully they can kind of close out a couple of those other Suffolk county cold cases in the process. And in doing so, kind of, I think, teach other law enforcement agencies of like, here's how you do it. You know, like you keep, you keep putting that momentum into other cases. I agree completely, but obviously my heart goes out to Ms. Lustig and her family because, I mean, what a horrible way for her to die. And they've waited so long for answers. Very sad. So I think next we're going to our. We're going from New York to Indiana, just like we did after we may or may not have trespassed and broken the law in Kings Park, Long Island.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So we fled from possible prosecution. We left there as fugitives.

[Anya Cain]

Perhaps Ray Tierney, don't listen to this episode.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It's kind of an open secret that people do this. Maybe not even a secret at all.

[Anya Cain]

We admitted nothing. It's all hypothetical.

[Kevin Greenlee]

But I mean, if I was interested in doing this, all I had to do was like, go on that great resource Reddit. And there was plenty of threads detailing exactly how to get into this building. Well, you know, buildings.

[Anya Cain]

Not like we would have any knowledge of it personally.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Not like there's any photographs or.

[Anya Cain]

No, it's not like we took pictures of ourselves and posted them on social media. That certainly did.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, it's not like one of us did that well.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, my God.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Scott. Sky.

[Anya Cain]

Well, let's. Let's move along to Indiana before it's.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Too late for it's too late indeed.

[Anya Cain]

Your home should be your refuge. But as true crime podcasters, we can tell you that criminals are out there willing to violate your peace and security for whatever their insidious motive is. It's a real danger, and it's probably one of the scariest things that can happen to a person or a family.

[Kevin Greenlee]

One big problem is that traditional home security systems are helpless to deal with this. They don't react until an intruder is already inside or actively breaking in. So the trauma is already going to be there for the homeowner. But Simplisafe is different, and that's why we trust them to protect our home. And now our listeners are going to get 60% off in SimpliSafe's biggest sale of the year.

[Anya Cain]

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[Kevin Greenlee]

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[Anya Cain]

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[Kevin Greenlee]

We are busy, busy, busy. Between producing multiple episodes of the Murder Sheet each week and doing talks and signings for our new book, we strive to make time for chores and house cleaning every single day. Gotta maintain those habits. But sometimes it just adds to our sense of being overwhelmed.

[Anya Cain]

That's why our terrific new sponsor, Homaglo, is such a game changer. This top rated home service platform will meet you where you are to help you get your space Clean and tidy. You can book cleaners on your schedule. You'll be checking tasks off your list and boosting your own peace of mind with homaglow. You can opt for a quick clean or book something well in advance. If you're looking for even more affordable options, you can go for their Forever Clean membership. You'll save $30 an hour on all future cleanings.

[Kevin Greenlee]

The process is so simple. You go on their website. You pick a date, time and duration of service. Then you match with a cleaner. All of their cleaners go through a certification process so you know you're getting the best.

[Anya Cain]

We're all working hard. Whether you've got a job you're passionate about, mysteries you need to solve, and kids that need care and support, or side hustles that need tending. But you also need to take care of yourself. Opt for home aglow. Whether you need long term cleaning support or just a touch up here and there, it's going to save you time and give you peace of mind and a clean house you'll be so happy with. Take home cleaning off your plate this fall by using Homaglow. Head to Homaglow.com murdersheet get your first three hours of cleaning for only $19. That's H O M E A G L O-W.com murdersheet VRBO last minute deals make chasing fresh mountain powder incredibly easy. With thousands of homes close to the slopes, you can easily get epic Pow freshies, first tracks and more. No need for months of planning. In fact, you can't even plan Pow Pow is on its own schedule, thankfully somewhere in the world and it's always snowing. All you have to do is use the last minute filter on the app to book a last minute deal on a slope side private rental home.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Book [e-mail] My sources for this are WTHR and IndyStar. This is a terrible story. You may have heard about it. About a week ago a woman named Maria Perez is with her husband. They are self employed cleaners. They go to people's homes and they clean their homes. They go to a house. The husband believes this is the correct address. We've checked the address and as they try to get into the home, someone on the other side of the door fires a shot and miss. Perez is shot. She's struck and she ends up dying. The husband I'm going to read a quote he gave the Indianapolis Star through a translator he said, quote she didn't even put the key in when I heard the shot happen. I saw my wife had stepped back twice and then the keys dropped. Then she dropped and I went to catch her. I was trying to console her and tell her everything was going to be okay, but I was seeing the blood coming out. This is horrible. The police got a call. There was a suspected home invasion. Obviously that wasn't the case. So I want to say some very obvious points that I think we can all agree on. Number one, Anya, this shouldn't have happened.

[Anya Cain]

This should not have happened.

[Kevin Greenlee]

This woman did not deserve to die. Her husband didn't deserve to have to hold his dying wife in his arms. And their children didn't deserve to lose a mother. It's a terrible, terrible incident. And I feel a lot of compassion for them and I feel a lot of anger at the fact that this happened. But unfortunately, just agreeing that what happened was wrong does not necessarily mean that a crime occurred. And let me explain that Indiana has a stand your ground law, which basically gives people kind of a wide latitude to defend themselves in their property if they feel they are being threatened. And I'm going to tell you what, you need to be able to successfully invoke that this is. I'm quoting criminal defense attorney Katie Jackson Lindsay, who spoke to 13 News. If you're claiming self defense, you need to be in a place where you have the right to be like your home. You can't be committing or fleeing from a crime and you can't be the initial aggressor and you have to believe your use of deadly force was reasonable. So in this case, the person who fired the shot was in their home obviously wasn't fleeing from a crime. So it all boils down to reasonable. And that means the prosecutor who was weighing all of this would have the burden of proving that what happened was not reasonable. And that may not be as easy as we think. And certainly the prosecutor in that county, Kent Eastwood, has said he and his office is like gathering as much information as they can because it is so complicated. Imagine if you're in your home and you hear keys in the door, you hear people trying to open the door of your home. I can certainly imagine that would be a very frightening situation. What do you think?

[Anya Cain]

Oh, my God. Okay. What I think is that if, if, if this is not okay. How do I say this? If, if our laws are structured in a way where this is okay, where a woman can be shot for going to the wrong house through a door that she does not have a key to. She thinks she has a key, but she doesn't. She can't get in. They're not trying to kick down the door. They're not screaming threats. They're not doing anything. She's trying to open. If, if this is considered legal and. Okay, then we need to change our laws in Indiana because that's a disgrace. People need to, like. I'm sorry. People need to grow up. Like, if you like someone jingling keys. Listen, I would be freaked out. I. I'm the most nervous person. I would be freaking out if I thought someone was trying to get in my house and I would call the police. I would not. And I don't. I mean, I'm not a gun person, but I can understand wanting a gun to protect yourself and your family and your household. I don't have any problem with people having that. But if you are shooting through a door, beyond situations where you're, like, aware that, like, someone's, you know, your husband's being stabbed right outside or whatever, then I think you're nuts and you should not be doing that. And I think that any law that is saying that stand your ground is ridiculous and absurd. And I'm. I do not.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I. I think you're making an important point. If the prosecutor comes to the conclusion that under our law, I don't feel confident I have a case here that ultimately is not his fault. It's the fault of the law, I'm going to say.

[Anya Cain]

Based on what, based on what was discussed in that WTH article. And I know WTH as a very capable legal analyst who has, you know, done a lot of cases herself and, and often, you know, speaks very well on these things. And I, I agree with her interpretation. It sounds like this would be very difficult to prosecute, and a prosecutor cannot bring forth a case that is destined to lose because it doesn't conform to the law.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And she said it. It could even turn on something, as. Were they jiggling their keys or do they ring the doorbell? Because you couldn't expect a person to be, oh, my God, I. Through the door if somebody rings the doorbell. But maybe a person is more scared if they're using keys. And that also boils down to. I'm also curious. Is there any ring camera footage of the incident? Because the way the husband describes it, he says that he didn't put the key in the door.

[Anya Cain]

I'm. It's, it's. I, I'm infuriated. If that's accurate, and they didn't even get to that point, then this person is a reactive lunatic who should not have a gun.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah. If his story is true and accurate, and I have no reason to doubt it, how did this person, how was this person even aware someone was at the door? It's. There's a lot of facts we don't know.

[Anya Cain]

Listen, I mean, I'm not a big believer in shoot first, ask questions later in general, but if they were in the house, if they had somehow like the door was unlocked and they just got in and they walked in and they were suddenly in there and they surprised somebody who happened to have a gun on them, I could understand that more because the shock of, oh my God, there's people I don't know in my house. I can understand. Like, as someone who we all, I mean, listen, we're all true crime listeners, right? We all fear a home invasion. That's a very scary concept of criminals breaking into your house to do God knows what to you and your family. At best, property crimes. At worst, homicide, rape, whatever. But that doesn't, Like, I don't, I can't imagine. Again, like, I get nervous when someone's ringing my doorbell and I'm like, what the heck do these people want? It's usually just a random solicitor. And I just don't open the door. If someone was like trying to get in, I think my first instinct would be to call out, what are you doing? Or like, I will call the police or something. And again, if the door is locked, I don't know, like, I mean, yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I would also be curious. Was the call of the police made before the shooting or after the shooting?

[Anya Cain]

And it's not lost. I mean, I don't know the racial identity of the shooter, but I mean.

[Kevin Greenlee]

The shooter has not been publicly identified at the time we are recording on November 12th. The shooter has not been publicly identified.

[Anya Cain]

Ms. Perez and Mr. Velasquez are Hispanic. And it's like, was there, you know, was, was. This guy's just so freaky. I mean, like, I don't know.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We don't even know if it was a guy.

[Anya Cain]

Well, yeah, I don't. I think this is appalling if this is considered legal. And I think that's a real shame on Indiana's legislature and that it should be addressed because again, I'm actually somebody who I bel. I, I stand your ground. Laws are very controversial. I do think that we need to carve out that sort of self defense sort of situation in general because you don't want to have situations where people are behaving reasonably to protect themselves and their families who are then going to prison. That's not a fair situation. That should be something that's on the table and part of the discussion. But if the laws are written in such a vague and frankly, all encompassing way to basically be like, well, I felt a little twinge of fear so I just like shot through my door with an Uzi to like, you know, take out an Amazon delivery person, then that's not, that's not reasonable. And frankly, like, I, I just, it's appalling. And it's appalling the idea that these people would not get justice. This, I mean, I guess I'm just like asking you, Kevin, like, just as a person, forget the law for a minute. Like, but I mean, this, it's, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous to shoot through a door, especially in this circumstance. Am I crazy?

[Kevin Greenlee]

No, you're not crazy. That's why I tried to say at the very beginning this shouldn't have happened. It was wrong. And me saying that perhaps under current law it may not be a crime doesn't change the fact that I think it is wrong. And I agree with you that if the prosecutor concludes that under current law this is not a crime, we need to take a hard look at the law.

[Anya Cain]

But it sounds like you think, and correct me if I'm wrong, you think that like, while emotionally you're like, this is a crime and this should be prosecuted. Intellectually you're like, it probably cannot be prosecuted because of the way the law is written and because of it being so vague that you couldn't win.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think there's a possibility of that. This is the sort of scenario ends up on law school tests. And keep in mind there are facts we don't know. And those facts may end up being absolutely determinative of what the final decision is. It is, I think, incredibly important. Was the doorbell rung? Were there keys jiggling in the door? Things of that nature? Those things are incredibly important. We don't know them. The husband says they didn't put the keys in the door. I would be curious. Did they knock on the door? Did they pound on the door? I don't know. I think it would be really interesting to see the surveillance footage if such exists. I think that if there's any way possible that this prosecutor thinks some sort of a crime could be charged, he will do his duty and do that because it's a very disturbing incident. It's a moral wrong what happened here.

[Anya Cain]

And people are outraged. I mean, I've seen a lot of commentary. I've seen commentary in our group where people are upset, they're saying this is wrong. And I think a lot of blame is going towards the prosecutor and law enforcement, which I understand, because you're in a community and you see law enforcement and you see the prosecutor as the one. You're tasked with upholding the law and righting wrongs and bringing justice. And so there's like, a feeling of betrayal, I feel, which is understandable.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And if you're angry, be angry. I encourage you to be angry. But be angry at the legislatures, Be angry at the people who wrote the laws, and maybe try to get some of those laws changed.

[Anya Cain]

I mean, just as it is. I mean, it just leaves room for all sorts of things that seem completely unreasonable.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And if you do your research, you'll find that stand your ground laws often result in terrible outcomes. I think we were talking about stand your ground laws recently when we were talking about that documentary, the neighbor thing.

[Anya Cain]

It's used. It's used to justify things that are clearly not reasonable.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It's often used to disproportionately to justify the shooting of minorities.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, and that's. And that's a problem, you know, and like, again, we can all say, okay, we should have some kind of provision for people who are, you know, like, you know, I'm not saying there's a situation where, like, somebody has to be like, hey, guys, I'm gonna rob you and then break down your door and. And then start doing the crime, and that's the only moment you can start fighting back. Obviously not. But it's also fair to say that if you have something where it's just like, yeah, go ahead, kill anybody who comes remotely near you, then, like, that's not okay.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And like, these people, this husband and wife were doing what we want people to do. They're. They're up early, they have a strong work ethic. They are going to their job. Their job is cleaning people's homes. They're working hard to support themselves and their loved ones. They were not doing anything wrong. This should never have happened.

[Anya Cain]

And again, like, how anti. So what, what, what? I'm sorry, I'm not like, I don't know what the person was thinking. It's possible if there is a situation where they're not in their right mind or whatever, or, like, you know, we're talking about, like, a really elderly person who has, like, memory issues or problems. There could be other things going on here, is what I'm saying. I just don't know who this person is. But if this is just a normal Functioning person just in society. How much of a fricking coward do you have to be to shoot first and ask questions later when someone comes to your door? I mean, like, how soft are you?

[Kevin Greenlee]

And there's also in that quote I read, I believe the husband indicates that he believes they went to the correct house. And if that's the case, that's.

[Anya Cain]

That's even more insane.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah. Even if they were pounding on the door to be let in.

[Anya Cain]

Well, I feel like if they went to the right house. If they went to the right house, then I think there's more of a case here. I'm not a lawyer.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I agree.

[Anya Cain]

Okay.

[Kevin Greenlee]

If.

[Anya Cain]

Let's talk about the possibilities. If they went to the wrong house and the people inside have no idea what they're doing. Hey, like, we might be about to be home invaded. I still think this is all completely unreasonable, but I can understand the state having a harder time bringing that. If someone comes to the door and they're scheduled to go to that door and do their jobs, then this all turns into something where it's like, no, there's something way bigger here. And I feel like the state would have an easier time with that.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah.

[Anya Cain]

Personally. Cause it's like. Like even if you're the husband or the wife doesn't know that the other one hired someone. Not like, that's kind of more of a you problem at that point. That's ridiculous.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I think we also agree that if they had actually gotten access to the house and the person, like kind of wakes up, goes from their bedroom, sees people in the house and reacts and fires a gun, that might be more understandable.

[Anya Cain]

I just am asking because we talked about the perfect neighbor. That was The Killing of A.J. owens by Susan Lawrence. She shot through a door, and they found that that was manslaughter because she. Well, first of all, she lied. She was acting like, oh, it was 10 minutes of this and that. And, you know, they found it was like two minutes. And that one seemed like a pretty clear cut of, like, manslaughter here. This one strikes me the same way. But it almost sounds like Indiana's laws so broadly written. It just sounds like it's not going to happen here unless there's more details that we're not aware of where something ends up happening. But I guess I'm just like, I wouldn't be surprised.

[Kevin Greenlee]

They might. I would kind of expect them to charge something, if at all.

[Anya Cain]

Something. Yeah. Just because it's. I mean, it almost. Just reading through the reading between the lines, it Almost sounds like they want to do something because they realize it's going to be a huge blowback.

[Kevin Greenlee]

But not only that. I wouldn't even put it that way. I think prosecutors are human beings. They don't go into the prosecutorial business in order to let people get away with murder. They're the type of people who want there to be justice.

[Anya Cain]

Why on earth. I just. Why on earth would someone. And again, I'm. I'm trusting that what the husband says here is true. That. That this was a very short interaction where they're just sort of talking, trying to get in. Oh, let me try the keys. And then, then she's shot and killed. But you know, what happened to just being like, hey, who are you? What's going on? Like, like just yelling through the door. What? Like. Or, hey, you're at the wrong house. Go away or I'm gonna call the police. I mean, what. Like, I. You know what I mean? Like, just a common sense.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes. There are many, many different things that homeowner could have done.

[Anya Cain]

Or if you come in here, I will shoot you. I mean, again, that's pretty aggressive. But, like, if you want to be like, I have a gun, I will shoot you. Get out of here. I mean, it would have.

[Kevin Greenlee]

There are a lot of things the homeowner could have done short of taking a life, the life of a mother he didn't know.

[Anya Cain]

I mean, like, like, I mean, I don't know, maybe they were able to see outside or they had some kind of camera set up. But, like, I mean, you could hit anybody. You could hit a kid. I don't know. I just. I find that really appalling. Anyways, that's. That whole thing is just deeply upsetting to me.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, I find it terribly upsetting the idea of, you know, anybody who's married, things. What would it be like to hold your spouse dying in your arms when they'd done nothing wrong other than trying to do their job? It's really a horrifying situation. I would hope the family gets the justice they deserve. And if they don't, maybe it is time to take a new look at some of these laws, which do tend to produce a lot of questionable outcomes. Most of the time when those outcomes happen, they don't get this much attention. So it's, it's. It's good that this is shining a spotlight on an issue that has been pervasive in this country.

[Anya Cain]

This is a situation where it is just such a clear cut wrong, where you have a woman trying to do her job, they make maybe a mistake or maybe they don't and she gets gunned down through a door. Yeah, I think that that should produce outrage. And I, I hope that, I hope that more information comes out about this and that we can kind of discuss what we learn and just, you know, I'm just, my heart breaks for her and her family. And again, like, I, I think it's, I, I'm always sad if it's a situation where someone's in fear and they, you know, shoot and maybe they made a mistake or whatever, but it's just like this is a heck of a thing to do to shoot through a door. All right, shall we move on?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Are you taking us to California?

[Anya Cain]

I am, I am. So this is a, a very sad case out of California and it's one that's gotten a lot of, you know, attention, a lot of Internet sleuthing, a lot of speculation. I haven't really followed all of that. And you know, Internet sleuthing can be good or can be bad. It could be people really kind of digging stuff up that's interesting and nothing wrong with that can be bad if it gets too speculative. But I have no reason to believe that that's happened in this case. But this case has prompted a lot of speculation because it deals with the death of 14 year old Celeste Rivas Hernandez. This was a young girl who has been connected to a young man named David Anthony Burke. He's 20 years old and he's not just your average 20 year old. He is a musician who goes by David, which is D4V D and he accrued a pretty big following. He was sort of considered an up and coming star and was sort of set, set for having some success in the music world. And what happened was in. On April 5, 2024, 13 year old Celeste went missing from, from her California home. She had run away before, but she's gone. My understanding from looking at the timeline that I sort of pieced together from different media outlets, including Law and Crime, as well as ktla, Los Angeles magazine. Um, so what happened was she goes missing and then in like June of 2025. Of 20? Yeah, I think in like about June or Rather January of 2025, there's some evidence showing she's alive. So this is according to reports from a private investigator who's worked on the case, who talked to media. So there's like, I think January 2nd, she's last seen digitally photo evidence, she's okay and then she's gone. And so she goes missing. So Then we cut to September 6, 2025. A Tesla is kind of left out in. In the Hollywood Hills section of Los Angeles. It's towed to an impound lot, and two days later, September 8th, employees realize a really foul odor is coming from it. They call Los Angeles Police Department, who respond and find a decomposed body in the trunk, severely decomposed, and they're identified as Celeste Rivas. And from there, September 17th to the 18th, they make an announcement identifying her. And then it's, you know, the crime is linked. And so ever since then, I mean, it's November now, people are wondering what happened. This David guy, he has canceled. He canceled his world tour. He's really gone underground. He's, I think, made very minimal public statements around this. But the Tesla was. Was linked to him, and it was near a house that he was. Had previously been renting in that area. So where are we? Well, the medical examiner's office, the Los Angeles County Medical examiner still has not released anything about cause or manner of death. And it's not beyond. I mean, if you don't have that, you don't have a case at this point, at least as far as the LAPD seems to be concerned. So it would need to be, you know, either homicide or undetermined. And then they might not be able to even say beyond that. But, like, I guess what Law and Crime did recently was they did an interview with this private investigator, Steve Fisher, who's, I think, working on behalf of the homeowner who owned the residence that this guy had previously been staying at. And what he says is. What they're talking about is like, are they. Is there going to be a murder? I mean, when you hear about this body in a trunk, and she's this runaway who seemingly is appearing. And, like, this is where the Internet sleuths are coming in. They're. They're saying, okay, I have screenshots of her appearing on one of his lives. He did a lot of, like, live streaming. He's very digitally native person as a young person, and that's how he's, you know, connecting as an artist with his fans. And she's like, people who may be her are, like, appearing on some of these streams. So it's like she seems to be connected with him. This teenage runaway seems to be connected with him, and then she turns up mysteriously dead in the trunk of a car. It's just like, you feel like there's a lot of. It screams foul play, but without having the evidence, we don't know. And it just it's just people have been saying, seems to be taking an awful while. And maybe, maybe the. Maybe things are set in such a way where the evidence just isn't there to support something, but people are, you know, concerned and I imagine outraged.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It's a very interesting case.

[Anya Cain]

I'll be curious to see how it develops. But you just think, oh, my God, of course that's foul play, but, you know, I mean, it's November. She sounded September. Sometimes law enforcement and things like that don't proceed in the. With the clip that we want. We want things quicker and we want things now. And that doesn't always happen. But also sometimes it can just be like things are not lining up for a homicide charge or any, any charges around a homicide. But I mean, certainly concealment of a body would be on the table. I mean, I don't know. It's really sad. She was just a teenager and it just sounds like a lot of, a lot of things failed her in this life.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And now it's like, it's a very tragic story.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, right. Ohio.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Let's go to Ohio, which is our neighbor to the east. The Buckeye State.

[Anya Cain]

That's right.

[Kevin Greenlee]

The great state of Ohio. The home of Ulysses S. Grant. Right.

[Anya Cain]

That's right. And William Tecumseh Sherman and war secretary. Wait, why am I. Why am I blanking?

[Kevin Greenlee]

You love this man, Edwin Stanton.

[Anya Cain]

I wanted to say William, and I was like, what? No. How could I? I'm sorry, Ed. Hat tip. He's the best. Yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Anya.

[Anya Cain]

I love Edwin Stanton.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Has a low key crush on him. She gets.

[Anya Cain]

I don't have a low key crush on Edwin Stanton, you weirdo.

[Kevin Greenlee]

When you hear about people saying, oh, I think Stanton was involved with the conspiracy to kill Lincoln, you get all red faced.

[Anya Cain]

I pop out of the. I pop out of the darkness and start yelling at them.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You start throwing things, he starts throwing stones.

[Anya Cain]

I like him because he reminds me of you. I don't have a crush on him. Jeez.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Because he was an older attorney who married a beautiful young lady and he.

[Anya Cain]

Had chronic health problems and kind of like low key, was antisocial and was an attorney from the Midwest. He's always trying all these techniques to like, deal with his asthma, which ultimately killed him before he could be serve on the US Supreme Court. Which is kind of sad. But. Yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I predict that I will die before I get nominated to the Supreme Court.

[Anya Cain]

Is that a safe bet?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes. I'm not gonna get nominated in my lifetime.

[Anya Cain]

Wow, that's so sad. But maybe after you die they'll posthumously nominate you.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I'm not even counting on that. I'm just saying when I die, the headline of my obituary will be he never served on the Supreme Court.

[Anya Cain]

Wow, that's pretty brutal.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think you have the same headline on Europe.

[Anya Cain]

Well, I'm not a lawyer, so it's less of an embarrassment for me.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, you never served on the Supreme Podcaster Court.

[Anya Cain]

No such thing exists.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You should found it and then you could probably serve on it.

[Anya Cain]

I'll found it and just make the one member me and then I'll get to decide all the things. Really Run podcasts into the ground. Don't give me ideas.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You're a schemer. I am. So this is a case out of Ohio. My source is www.tentv.com I'm sorry, my eyes are very bad. One thing that jumped out about this to me is that at one point, and when I'm about to relate, the guy thinks, well, I had, I had no other option. This is the only thing I could think of. And I think at that point maybe you and I could maybe brainstorm to see if he did in fact have other options. So this is a story out of Ohio. Upper Arlington, Ohio. A man named James Hill. He is a 76 year old man, has kind of an age gap relationship because he's married to a woman named Mary hill who is 64 years old. Mr. Hill at some earlier point got on a dating app. And on this dating app he met a woman. And I guess from his perspective, at least at the beginning, things were going pretty well between him and this woman because they ended up exchanging nude pictures.

[Anya Cain]

And always a sign something's going well.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, that's always a great sign, but. So this is if we could go back in time, this is, this is what we could tell Mr. Hill. No, don't do this. It's a bad idea to just suddenly start exchanging nude pictures with a stranger. But he finds this out on his own soon enough because the woman sends him a text and says, guess what? You need to give me $15,000 or I'm going to release your nude pictures. And so this is when he thinks of only one way out of the situation, which is to kill himself and his wife.

[Anya Cain]

Oh my God.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Then let's talk about other ways out of this situation. You could go to your wife and say, I know this might end the marriage Earth Rayleigh's might cause some us to go into counseling and rebuild trust, but I've made an error. Here it is. You can also go to the Police and say I'm being sex torted and manipulated. Here's the relevant information. Those are both.

[Anya Cain]

But I think both of those options are just what you should do. I think both do both of them. Be honest and go to the police.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes. Even if it means ending your marriage because of a mistake you made that is better in some sense. You've already betrayed your wife by sending the nude pictures. Why take her life on top of.

[Anya Cain]

That, you've already decided that your wife is not important enough to you in order, you know, to like be faithful. And you've, you've got to deal with the consequences of that. It's not her fault and you know, it's like it. That's a very. I'm not saying that, I mean I'm not a mental health professional but like it's like you want your wife to. You'd rather your wife die than think you're a, you know, bad person, which you are. It's like that level of controllingness, it makes me feel like this, this guy probably was a problem before. Yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I want to read something that I found chilling. According to court documents, James went into the den of the house. I'm reading from the article. According to court documents, James went into the den of the house where his wife was working on her computer. He stood behind her and began to rub her shoulders. He told police he grabbed a knife from his back and stabbed his wife once in her chest. He said he apologized as she looked at him. Can you imagine that poor woman, she's having a loving touch from her husband, getting some kind of a. A shoulder rub and then the knife to the chest. And then she looks up at him, non comprehendingly as the awful truth dawns on her and he just offers some meaningless apology.

[Anya Cain]

What an evil man.

[Kevin Greenlee]

She dies. He then tries to stab his dog, which I don't know what his thinking was there. The dog was injured but apparently lived. He then called 911, unlocked his door, sat on his couch and stabbed himself in the chest. But he's going to live, of course these like.

[Anya Cain]

Of course, of course he would be the one that lived because he doesn't really want to hurt himself because he's obviously so friggin obsessed with himself.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And so I should say before he stabbed himself, he deleted the pictures which I assume were the nude pictures he sent to this woman.

[Anya Cain]

Can you imagine being so. Listen, it's terrible to cheat on your wife and I, I consider what he did cheating. He's sending naked pictures of himself to some woman. He's obviously not a very bright man because, yeah, like, that sounds like a great way to get extorted, but when it comes to, you know, when it comes to that, I think everyone would agree that doing something bad, making a terrible mistake and hurting people and owning up to it, trying to make amends and moving on is the sign of someone who is an actual human being who's, you know, capable of redemption and, you know, worthy of. Of, of that kind of understanding versus someone who's so self obsessed with their self image and that, like, looking the right way and being performative for other people to the point where they're gonna literally murder their wife and their dog and try to, you know, commit suicide and fail at that themselves. Just to like, also, like, I mean, like. Yeah, I don't know, I just don't get people. That's just bizarre.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah. And whatever harm he would have suffered had those pictures come out seems really trivial compared to the harm he was contemplating, which was ending his life and not probably significant jail time.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. I hope he dies in prison. He deserves it. I mean, like, this is ridiculous. I mean, like, there's no. This is like a. This is like a, like a hissy fit almost for like an adult man, you know, for as far as, like, like, I can't live without my. I can't live without my wife or whatever. It's like, well, you should have considered that before cheating on her. Like, I, I don't know. It's very like family annihilator ish, you know, like, especially killing the dog. And frankly, I would not be surprised if this guy had an unreported streak of domestic violence or being extremely controlling. You know, I mean, I'm not saying that definitely happened, but I just, I just don't think this kind of thing comes out of nowhere. I think most people, men and women in this situation, would probably do one of two things. Either just be honest about it or not say anything and hope it blows over and just say it's AI or something. And that's not good. It's not good to be lying and dishonest, but at least that's better than killing people.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, it's also, don't. Don't be sending nudes to people, especially nudes that are identifiable to you. So that's my tip for the day.

[Anya Cain]

That's your tip for the day. Well, I, you know, it's just. I don't know, it's like, own up to your mistakes. It's like just some people want to pretend like they're perfect. And then I think that leads them to more, more problems because rarely are they. Rarely are any of us.

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[Kevin Greenlee]

You wanted to complete this week's journey of the cane train by going back to Indiana. I think there was something you just wanted to spend. It's not super interesting, but it's worth a minute or two, right?

[Anya Cain]

It's really bizarre. I don't know. And I didn't want to, like, get too into it because it's, it is inside baseball, but it's wild.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It's Delphi County.

[Anya Cain]

It's Carroll county, baby. We're going back.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Vov's the former editor of the Carroll County Comet.

[Anya Cain]

Carroll County Comet is a respected, reputable local newspaper. Amy Graham McCurdy did a great job covering some of the Delphi case. We always saw her in line, and she's a really nice lady. And so, like, I have nothing but good things to say about the Comet. I think they're a great local news source. I remember I was so happy when Nick from True Crime Garage was like, I subscribed to the comment. I was like, yeah, so he wrote that about that in his book. So anyways, like, whatever. So the, the comets, the comet, and, and they did a great job. And how did you find out about this today?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I, I have my tentacles all over the web.

[Anya Cain]

That sounds weird. Okay. Anyways, I don't want this. I don't want anyone to take this as any sort of dig against the comet or any sort of, like, indication. I mean, I think what they did was great. And this seems to just be some weird side issue. It doesn't seem like it affected anything that they were doing, but it's just one of those things that's such an oddity that I feel like it's worth noting. Do you want, do you want to explain this?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Do you?

[Anya Cain]

I, I.

[Kevin Greenlee]

How do you want to do this?

[Anya Cain]

Why don't you do it? You, you started off, and then I'll take, like, I'll jump in at some point. But, but start like, what are we looking at here?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Okay, I'm going to be, I'm going to be a little bit from the probable cause because the former editor of the Comet, Holly Eitan Miller, has been charged with some offenses. And so Whenever someone is charged with a crime, there's a probable cause affidavit. On or about May 11, 2025, Holly Eitan Miller sent text messages to Sheriff Tony Liggett that Anthony Greenough was in her apartment and was in possession of marijuana. Upon arrival of the officers, Holly Ait Miller invited officers into her apartment. They observed Anthony Greenough asleep or passed out while seated on a stool. A small plastic baggie of green leafy substance with the appearance of marijuana was located within his reach. Greeno claimed no knowledge of the marijuana, but offered proof through text messages on his phone that he and Holly Eitan Miller communicated about him bringing marijuana to her on or about May 6, where they discussed options, quantities and prices. During the text messages, Holly Eitan Miller appeared to have marijuana in her possession and she referred to using it saying, quote, let me smoke some fucking pot and get back with you in a few minutes. Anthony Greeno then asked, do you want to read this paragraph?

[Anya Cain]

Anthony Greeno then asked if law enforcement had any complaints about property missing from the Chamber of Commerce building, as he and Jimmy Clayton had been invited to the building by Holly Eitan Miller to tour the place, which she accessed with a key. And while there, Holly invited Anthony and Jimmy to take anything they wanted because the Chamber was selling the building and the items would be thrown away. Greenough described a wooden antique courthouse chair that they carried back to Holly's apartment. Anthony Greenough advised, this happened around May 3, 2025.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And let me just say what you can't do that you can't just go into a city building after close a business and just take what you like.

[Anya Cain]

Take what you like, fellas.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So it's unclear to me what this woman was thinking, but.

[Anya Cain]

Want me to keep going?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anya Cain]

The officer, this officer, Colin Deckard, contacted the Chamber of Commerce and spoke with Madison Kaufman and Julia Leahy to determine what items, if any, were missing. It was determined that an overhead projector, an all wooden chair from the courthouse and an HP laptop with charging cords were all missing. The laptop was last seen by Madison in her office on April 24, 2025. And it and it was newly purchased in December 2024 for $429. The approximate value of the three items is between $939 and $1,539. Madison Kaufman explained that Holly Eitan Miller had a key to the building to access an office rented to the Comet newspaper.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think that's the gist of it. It goes on. Basically there's other incidents where.

[Anya Cain]

Antique children's book are being taken and by people.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Who thought they were being given permission to do that by Ms. Eitan Miller, when in fact no such permission existed.

[Anya Cain]

It's so wild. Oh yeah. Take all the antiques, including this brand new HP laptop. Like, like I. Yeah, that's really wild. And they were.

[Kevin Greenlee]

She was the editor of the paper.

[Anya Cain]

They were able to. When they. On May 15, they made contact with her at her apartment. They observed the antique wooden office chair matching the one stolen. And then, and then what was interesting to seeing was at that point Holly advised that had been taken by Greeno. So she, it's almost like she was kind of like trying to like put it on him for, for her doing some of this stuff. So when they showed her a picture of the laptop, at first she was like, oh, I don't have it. And then later on she admitted she had it, claiming she borrowed it and intended to return it or contact Julia to replace it. And yeah, they. This quote, this officer noted that the laptop had a lid sticker and other stickers affixed to it, indicating it had been personalized. Further, a forensic examination of this device by Tabitha Miller of HTCU indicates that on April 27, 2025, the password was updated by a user identified as Holly Eitenmiller. And the serial number of the device matches the one purchased for the chamber in December of 2024.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So this is far from a perfect crime. So this was. Was there anything you wanted to say about this? Other than.

[Anya Cain]

I just like. It was, it was. It's just so odd of like, I don't know, like, it's just like some of the Delphi kind of sides side stuff just being like, wow, why would someone do this? But you know, again, I don't think it'll have too much of an impact on the comet itself. It's still a great paper. Got great people working there, I'm sure. I mean, it sounds like she's already been replaced there.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So it was a pretty place months ago.

[Anya Cain]

She was, she was there for a pretty short stint. So I think they were just going to do what they're gonna do and you know, they'll be fine. But it's just one of those things like that that's a nightmare hire right there. It's like not only you're literally like stealing from the community you're supposed to be covering. I've never, I've never heard of this, but it's seemingly what happened.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Of course, our book is still available for sale and make excellent Christmas Gifts.

[Anya Cain]

Yes, you should buy it for Christmas.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We're doing one more appearance or whatever holiday you celebrate. We're doing an appearance on my birthday on December 6th at the Indiana Historical Society.

[Anya Cain]

We are Ind and I would just say, you know, as far as like we've had so much success already with this book and that's all because of you guys for purchasing it and for telling your friends about it. But all we ask you right now is the holiday season is incredibly important for books, especially for us. We're first time authors. We're working with a terrific but smaller publishing house, Pegasus. They're amazing, they've been great to work with, but you know, when it comes to big marketing budgets, that's not something any of us have. And the marketing we're doing is predominantly asking wonderful folks like yourself if you get the book, if you get the audiobook, if you get the ebook, get the hardcover. First of all, please considering gifting copies or formats to those you love, who you think are interested in true crime or who just like a gripping read, we are reopening our kind of vault of book plates. So I will kind of disperse once again on our social media on in our Facebook group or you can email me for [e-mail] I'll disperse the form that you fill out and gift it to your friends and family. And if you can't do that, all we ask is, you know, on, on whatever social media you have, please post about it, post a picture of it, post a picture of you listening or reading to it, selfies, still life, whatever works. Just every little bit of that word of mouth really, really helps us and means the world to us.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And as I said, we're doing an appearance on my birthday and people say, what can we do for your birthday? Buy a book.

[Anya Cain]

Buy a book.

[Kevin Greenlee]

What a lovely gift.

[Anya Cain]

If your friend says, hey, can I, can I borrow your book of shadow? Say absolutely not. Get your own. We don't share books here. It's get your own book.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We said we're not going to do a story. So then it's like we no longer have a way to end the show. I have an idea that I'm going to pitch to you, which I think is a great idea. I'm scared every week. Why don't you sing a song?

[Anya Cain]

Okay, we're done, right? All right, thanks.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Why don't you do like the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald? You have such a lovely singing voice. I don't think people know this about you.

[Anya Cain]

You know, I don't he's just saying this to mock me in front of the audience.

[Kevin Greenlee]

She has. Would I lie? Would I go to our friends, the beloved listeners?

[Anya Cain]

You act like I have a whole train line. You act like I steal cereal. Would you lie? Yes. You have a great about me. You make me sound ridiculous.

[Kevin Greenlee]

If not singing, should we have like a thought for the day? Some sort of pithy bit of wisdom that people can ponder over the weekend?

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, we can. If you are the one who's gonna produce it. Cause my brain is shot.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I know. On welcome back. Hotter.

[Anya Cain]

Oh God.

[Kevin Greenlee]

At the end of every episode, one of them would tell a humorous joke about one of their relatives. Should we do that?

[Anya Cain]

No.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So I'm pitching ideas right now.

[Anya Cain]

Can we just leave? Can we just go, please?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Give me an idea.

[Anya Cain]

No. Here's an idea.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us. Murder Sheet if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[Anya Cain]

If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com murdersheet if you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www.buymeacoffee.com murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the [e-mail] if you're looking to talk with.

[Anya Cain]

Other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening. We've run into some pretty creepy people in our true crime journey and we've even gotten some threats as a result. Safety is often top of mind for Kevin and I.

[Kevin Greenlee]

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[Anya Cain]

So many technologies and techniques to keep you safe. I'm talking about AI powered cameras. Not to mention they're always looking out for you. Professional monitoring agents are on hand to intervene in real time. They'll switch on the two way audio to confront possible prowlers. Start blaring sirens and spotlights to get rid of them.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Simplisafe is great for renters and homeowners alike. You can customize your approach to home security. They've got lots of different options, but one constant is that you don't need to sign a long term contract. Between that and your 60 day money back guarantee, it's a cinch. Try out SimpliSafe today.

[Anya Cain]

Right now my listeners can save 50% on a SimpliSafe home security system at simplisafe.com msheet that's simplisafe.com msheet there's no safe like Simplisafe.

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