The Cheat Sheet: Hurricanes and Housewives

Summary

Podcast Summary: Murder Sheet

Episode: "The Cheat Sheet: Hurricanes and Housewives"

Date: February 13, 2026
Hosts: Áine Cain (Journalist), Kevin Greenlee (Attorney)

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Overview

In this episode of Murder Sheet, hosts Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee guide listeners through a quickfire “cheat sheet” of recent crime stories, both historical and ongoing. They discuss developments in a notorious UK serial murder case, the complications of a Louisiana homicide during a hurricane, the legal debate over using rap lyrics as evidence in a California case, and highlight cold and missing persons cases in Indiana. The conversation is seasoned with their signature banter, editorializing, and memorable asides about state nicknames and Indiana university rivalries.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. UK Segment: The Victoria Hall Case & Serial Killer Steve Wright

[04:46 – 14:10]

• Áine covers the 1999 disappearance and murder of 17-year-old Victoria Hall in Suffolk, England.
• Victoria disappeared after a night out with a friend; her body was found five days later.
• The case was unsolved for years, with a failed prosecution due to weak evidence:
  • "90 minutes into deliberation they returned a not guilty verdict." (Anya Cain, 10:53)
  • "Usually there's enough meat on the bone for them to chew on and discuss for a while. It sounds like nobody on that jury was even mildly persuaded by that case." (Kevin Greenlee, 10:28)
• Steve Wright, later convicted as the “Suffolk Strangler” for the murder of five sex workers in 2006, was recently charged and has now pled guilty to Victoria Hall’s murder.
  • Discussion of how serial killers can “evolve” after initial crimes: "A serial killer early in their career can evolve...they realize that's not what I want, what I really want is this." (Anya Cain, 06:21)
• Notable detail: the night before Hall’s murder, Wright attempted to abduct another woman, who escaped.
• Case resolved through new DNA evidence and this witness testimony.
• Áine’s editorial:
  • "Serial killers are such frigging losers...We should not be sitting around being like, ooh, they're so cool and edgy. We should be sitting around saying, they suck." (Anya Cain, 14:12)

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2. Louisiana Homicide in the Shadow of a Hurricane: Javon Tumblin

[20:07 – 25:14]

• Kevin recounts the unsolved 2024 killing of Javon Tumblin in Baton Rouge—murdered during Hurricane Francine.
• The hurricane hampered investigation efforts:
  • Surveillance footage was nearly useless due to weather.
  • Early investigative hours lost; potential evidence destroyed.
  • "When a crime gets attention, people come forward with information…" (Kevin Greenlee, 20:07)
• The murder was consequently overlooked by media focused on the hurricane’s aftermath.
• Tumblin’s family is still seeking answers; his young daughter has lost her father.
• Áine draws a parallel with the unsolved case of Heinrich Suak in NYC during 9/11, emphasizing how timing and major events can doom investigations.
  • "There can just be these unlucky situations where somebody is murdered when something else is going on..." (Anya Cain, 24:41)

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3. California: Rap Lyrics as Evidence in Lil Durk/Quando Rondo Case

[26:17 – 38:15]

• The case centers on rapper Lil Durk (Dirk Devante Banks), accused of arranging a bounty resulting in a shooting targeting rival rapper Quando Rondo (Taekwein Terrell Bauman).
• Key legal issue: Should prosecutors be able to use rap lyrics as evidence?
  • Kevin: "If I write a rap song...with really strong details that implicate her in a specific crime...that's something that probably should be admitted." (29:13)
  • Áine: "If it's hyper specific...it should be used. But if it's just like, 'I'm gonna kill my enemies,'...that's...heightened emotions." (29:58)
• Examples discussed from prosecutor filings (e.g., lyrics about “getting it back in blood” and unreleased tracks referencing “bounty hunters” and nearby locations).
• Both hosts question the relevance—are prosecutors overreaching?
  • "That...sounds a little weak to me." (Kevin Greenlee, 31:37)
  • Concerns about prejudice against rap music/artists versus how lyrics in other genres are treated.
  • "Rock and roll can have a lot of very sexually aggressive lyrics. Right. But I don't think anyone should look at those and say these rock and roll artists are rapists..." (Anya Cain, 33:46)
• References to pop culture: Key & Peele’s “Rap Album Confession” sketch as the “obvious” case for lyric admissibility.

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4. Indiana Cold Cases & Missing Person

[38:15 – 54:34]

a. Sarah Jeanette Benson (1981 Cold Case, Sullivan County, IN)

[46:24 – 54:06]

• Áine covers the unsolved murder of Jeanette Benson, who likely interrupted a home burglary and was shot.
• Witnesses described seeing a thin, tall white male with a blue sedan and specific shoes.
• Police believe the killer, then in his 20s, may still be alive and encourage tips, urging listeners to spread awareness and contact Sullivan County authorities.

b. Lillian Marie Key (2026 Missing Teen, Avon, IN)

[54:06 – 54:34]

• Sixteen-year-old Lillian Key has been missing since January 12, 2026.
• She left a new foster home with another girl who returned, but Lillian remains missing.
• Possible last known area: 21st and Post Road, Indianapolis, but could be elsewhere.
• Áine appeals directly to listeners to help by sharing her photo, contacting authorities with sightings, and reassures Lillian she is loved.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Serial Killer Fascination:
  • “Why do we have a mystique around these people? ...We should be sitting around saying, they suck.” (Anya Cain, 14:12)
• On Hurricane Homicide Complications:
  • “External factors can really affect and hamper a police investigation...sometimes it’s the fact that when a crime gets attention, people come forward with information...” (Kevin Greenlee, 20:07)
• On Using Rap Lyrics as Evidence:
  • “If you’re stupid enough to put it in a rap song, then that’s kind of your problem at that point.” (Anya Cain, 29:58)
  • “I don’t think we should be overusing weak prejudicial evidence in a case like this.” (Anya Cain, 35:52)
• On Indiana’s “Hoosier State” Nickname:
  • “Our nickname game...we need to work on it. I’m just being blunt.” (Kevin Greenlee, 38:37)
  • Extended comedic banter about state pride, Indiana’s “crossroads” branding, Purdue vs. IU, and local legends.

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [04:46] UK – Victoria Hall cold case & Steve Wright serial killer development
• [10:28] Kevin critiques failed prosecution in Hall’s case
• [14:12] Áine editorializes on serial killer culture
• [20:07] Louisiana – Javon Tumblin murder during Hurricane Francine
• [24:41] Áine draws parallel with Suak/9-11 case
• [26:17] California – Rap lyrics as evidence (Lil Durk case)
• [31:37] Discussion on the weakness of some prosecutor claims
• [46:24] Indiana – Jeanette Benson 1981 cold case
• [54:06] Indiana – Lillian Key missing person update

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Memorable Banter and Tone

Throughout the episode, the hosts maintain a personable, down-to-earth style:

• Bantering about state nicknames ("Sportsman's Paradise" for Louisiana) and regional pride.
• Playful feuds about academic institutions (Purdue “Boilermakers” vs. Indiana).
• Direct address to listeners (“You guys are the real ones”) and calls to action for helping solve or spread awareness about cases.
• Meta-commentary on their own podcast structure and in-jokes (e.g., “code words” for devoted listeners, pancakes and French toast).

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Conclusion

“The Cheat Sheet: Hurricanes and Housewives” is a showcase of Murder Sheet’s mix of true crime reporting and real-time commentary. The hosts deliver concise but thorough case rundowns, raise ethical/legal questions, and balance gravity with humor. The episode provides both information on underreported cases and a personality-driven, accessible listening experience for crime aficionados and casual listeners alike.

Transcript

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[Anya Cain]

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[Kevin Greenlee]

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[Anya Cain]

And today we're going to be talking about topics like serial killers as well as a case involving a hurricane and rap lyrics and a cold case out of Indiana as well as the case of a missing child that is ongoing in Indiana. Content Warning this episode contains discussion of violence and murder.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So yeah, I'm not going to go into detail right now at the top of the show, but boy do we love pancakes, if you know what I mean. Now why don't you say something?

[Anya Cain]

Hanging my head in shame.

[Kevin Greenlee]

No part of the show involves both of us speaking.

[Anya Cain]

What am I supposed to say to that? I guess you know, we're going to. We're going to talk about some interesting cases today. Appreciate the folks who sent me, the person who sent me the United Kingdom case We're going to cover today because that was a very interesting one to read about. And yeah, we always appreciate when you guys reach out with cases that you're interested in.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I know that they have something that goes through the Chunnel, right? The train that goes through the Chunnel. Is there like an underwater train that you can take from the east coast of the United States over the United Kingdom?

[Anya Cain]

I don't think there is, unfortunately.

[Kevin Greenlee]

How are we going to get over there?

[Anya Cain]

I don't know. We may not be able to.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You've committed it to us.

[Anya Cain]

Can't afford the flights. I don't know, man.

[Kevin Greenlee]

These. These cheat sheets, they're. They're just telling us these travel.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, just. We're totally broke.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Why aren't you like doing cases in like Tahiti or Bora Bora?

[Anya Cain]

I don't know. I just, you know, we have a substantial listener base in the United Kingdom and we tip our hats to them and we appreciate them. If I start getting a lot of Tahiti cases, I will certainly incorporate those as well.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Love to do some Bora Bora cases.

[Anya Cain]

Okay. That would be delightful. My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

[Anya Cain]

And this is the Murder Sheet.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews and deep dives into murder cases.

[Anya Cain]

We're the Murder Sheet and this is the Cheat Sheet. Hurricanes and Housewives.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Does the UK have like a nickname?

[Anya Cain]

I don't know.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Cause you know, many of the states have nicknames. I. I'm just curious.

[Anya Cain]

I don't. You should look that up and maybe keep it to yourself. I don't know. So yeah, this first case is out of the United Kingdom, out of England specifically. And my sources for this were predominantly the BBC and the Guardian. And it's a kind of an interesting older case that I had not heard about before. But it goes back to 1999 when a 17 year old young lady named Victoria hall went missing after going out with a friend in the evening. They went to a club. Five days later her body was found by a dog walk walker. So that was its own case. And we're going to get into that in a minute. Now I want to talk about serial killer Steve Wright. This guy was known as the Suffolk Strangler. These were known as the Ipswich serial murders. So between October 30 and December 10, 2006, a group of sex workers were being found murdered. The five murdered sex workers were named were 19 year old Tanya Nicholl, 25 year old Gemma Rose Adams, 24 year old Annalee Alderton, who was also pregnant, and 29 year old Annette Nichols, 24 year old Paula Clennell. So you have all these women being murdered, you have different similarities between the scenes and ultimately this guy Steve Wright was tried in 2008 and convicted largely based on DNA linking him to three of the victims. And he got what in the, in the UK is called a whole life tariff, which means he would never be released from prison, which is understandable given the severity of what he did. He's a serial killer. So that's not the end of the story though, because May 22, 2024 Wright was also charged with murdering 17 year old Victoria hall in 1999. Now she's believed to be perhaps his first murder victim. Now, Victoria was not a sex worker. Circumstances are somewhat different. But one thing that I learned from reading the book Signature Killers by Robert Keppel, who is the detective who hunted both Ted Bundy and Gary Ridgeway, the Green River Killer, is that a serial killer early in their career can evolve. What they're doing essentially is evolving towards their ultimate fantasy. In some cases when you have a signature killer who's doing it, who's sexually motivated, you can have somebody try something, it doesn't really go what they learn. They learn and they realize that's not what I want, what I really want is this. And so you see a progression. So that's why modus operandi sometimes changes. The person's intent doesn't necessarily change, but they, they figure out what they like and they keep doing that. And that's why you sometimes also see crime scenes get more and more gruesome because they're getting closer and closer to what they really want. Just the kind of sick psychology of it. So, so this is what happened with Victoria Hall. I'll get more into that case. Now this took place in Suffolk Trimley and Hall was last seen on September 19, 1999. She was an A level student at Orwell High School in Felixstowe. She wanted to go to university to study psycho sociology and she and her friend went to the Bandbox nightclub in Felixstowe that evening and they left the club the, the following day, the 19th, around, you know, one in the morning and they were, they walked back two miles back to Trimley and they went to get takeaway, I guess, take out along the way, get some food. And then they separated around half past two and only a few yard, a few hundred yards from where Victoria's home was. She was Living with her parents. So she was extremely close, alone. The girls say goodbye to each other. Her friend's walking away and then hear some high pitched screams. But thought it was just people joking around. I guess, you know, there's other people out and about, it's late at night, doesn't think anything of it. But unfortunately Victoria never makes it home. And a dog walker again finds her body in a ditch by a field about 25 miles from where she was last seen five days later. And it was found that she had suffocated. So initially four people get arrested for this and they're released without charge. So some initial suspects, then in 2000, a 20 year old, 26 year old businessman who I'm not going to name because he didn't do it, I mean his name's out there but you know, he, he was charged and he went to trial. He vehemently denied having anything to do with this. He was at the banned box the same night as Victoria. And prosecutors said that the mud on the accelerator of his car was similar to the soil where Victoria's body was found. I think they used the word remarkably similar. The defense experts who were, you know, on the geology side of things, said it's very unlikely the soil came from that ditch. So apparently the jury found one side far more compelling because 90 minutes into deliberation they returned a not guilty verdict. What does that mean? Typically when it's such a fast response on not guilty, it means that the.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Prosecution has not really done a very good job of making a case because usually at the very least, even if the jury comes to not believe in the prosecution's case, usually there's enough meat on the bone for them to chew on and discuss for a while. It sounds like nobody on that jury was even mildly persuaded by that case.

[Anya Cain]

And with this case it was a situation where then, you know, the police said, well, we think we had it, you know, and a lot of their evidence seemed to be that he was dropped off not far away from Victoria, was shared a taxi with some people and there was some dispute over like what time he would have been dropped off. So like, you know, there may have been some proximity between him and Victoria, but obviously the jury didn't feel like it was enough. So then in 2024 it came out that police were actually looking at it again and were thinking that it was right. Here's some evidence that came out since apparently there was testimony that Wright attempted to abduct a then 22 year old woman the night before. Very scary story. So this Wright was working as a laborer in Felixstowe at, at this time he lived there. And he, there was a situation where this, this 22 year old was out at night. She was able to run away from him. She grabbed a stick as like a weapon and hid in somebody's garden, kind of crouched down because she felt he was trying to kidnap her. And, and the reason, she had good reason to believe that because she separated from her friends, similar situation to what happened to Victoria. And then walks past this parked car, the driver's door is open, the engine is running, and she sees right there and initially thinks he's, he's like, you know, urinating, but realizes then he starts looking at her in a way that really freaks her out and he kind of attempts to snatch her seemingly. And she again takes refuge in this garden and is able to survive this encounter, but just terrifying. So prosecutors were saying, okay, this, there was this attempted kidnapping the night before Victoria went missing. And this guy is known to be a sexual predator, sexual deviant. And that sounds pretty similar to what happened to Victoria. And at first Wright was saying, no, I'm not guilty. He pled not guilty at first. There were some hearings and just recently he actually pled guilty. So he switched his plea and now it's over. It's not going to trial because he has pled guilty. But that was kind of an interesting twist at the last minute because it sounded like he was gonna deny being involved and, you know, potentially fight this. And instead he's, he's, you know, so the another thing that has come out since, by the way, is, you know, okay, well, there was this initial testimony of like, this woman was almost kidnapped. But it also sounds like in the Victoria hall case there was also some additional DNA that sort of sealed the deal for police and prosecutors implicating Steve Wright. So obviously a very tragic set of circumstances. It's very sad that her family had to wait so long for answers, but certainly glad that there's accountability in this case now. But thank you so much to the listener who recommended looking into this case. It was interesting.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, it's a very fascinating case.

[Anya Cain]

Serial killers are just such. I just want to say, like, I'm going to editorialize here for a minute. I'm sorry, I just gotta. Serial killers are such frigging losers. You know what I mean? Like, I just like, why do we have a mystique around these people? This is just, this is a pathetic person. All he was able to do is cause harm in life and he should be Forgotten because he meant nothing and he's barely a human being as far as I'm concerned. I would. I would burn down hundreds of serial killers to save one woman.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So you're going out on a limb and editorializing against serial killers?

[Anya Cain]

No, because every other true crime, I mean, like, I feel like so much of true crime is like, ooh, serial killer is interesting. This guy's the most boring person in the world. These people are losers. We should not. We should not be sitting around being like, ooh, they're so cool and edgy. We should be sitting around saying, they suck. Anyways, that's what. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I'm going to go to Louisiana. Source for this is W, A F B. And you know, Anya, before we started recording, you told me that you like to refer to Louisiana as the Sportsman's Paradise. Do you remember saying that?

[Anya Cain]

No. That sounds like something you'd say in one of your weird fits where you're talking about how you root for all the sports teams.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I gotta say, Louisiana has it on the ball here because I always like to pick the nickname or motto that seems like the most whimsical or the coolest. Sportsman's paradise is a winner. They also, the official one is the Pelican State. That's also great.

[Anya Cain]

That's awesome.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I love them both.

[Anya Cain]

That's great.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I don't even know what a Sportsman's paradise is, but apparently Louisiana is it and it's a great phrase.

[Anya Cain]

It is a great phrase. Again, it sounds like something you would say, which means it's quite whimsical.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So that means it titled my memoir Sportsman's.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, because you're such a sportsman.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Sportsman's paradise, the Kevin Greenlee story.

[Anya Cain]

God.

[Kevin Greenlee]

But yeah, Kudos to you, L.A. they're not doing you this Empire State of the Bayou business. Yeah, they're. They're on the ball.

[Anya Cain]

They're not. They're not ripping off New York. In other words, they're just doing their own thing.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Anya, do you remember those moments right before we started the murder sheet?

[Anya Cain]

Yep. I had some pretty severe doubts.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I remember. I remember a lot of you saying, what if no one listens? That would be embarrassing.

[Anya Cain]

Also, later on, there was a lot of I can't quit my real job and become a podcaster.

[Kevin Greenlee]

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[Anya Cain]

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[Anya Cain]

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[Kevin Greenlee]

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[Kevin Greenlee]

So this, this is a sad case and I'll tell you about it. And one of the reasons why I it attracted my attention is it highlights how sometimes external factors can really affect and hamper a police investigation into a crime. And it also highlights how sometimes external factors can prevent a crime from getting the attention it deserves, which can be a tragedy in and of itself because sometimes it's the fact that when a crime gets attention, people come forward with information which may assist in the investigation. This is the case of a 21 year old man named, I apologize if I mispronounced his first name. Javon Tumblin. He was shot and killed outside his car on September 10, 2024. You probably don't remember this. I didn't remember this, but that was the same day that hurricane Francine was striking in Baton Rouge, which is where Mr. Tumblin lived. And so the fact that the hurricane was, was coming made it tremendously difficult for police to really investigate and make headway with this case for one reason. You know, there's often surveillance video and video footage from these crimes in, in this case, that footage that they got was very difficult to really see and evaluate because of all the rain and wind conditions and also the fact that it was so rainy, windy, obviously means investigators don't really get an opportunity to go out and start knocking on doors and talking to witnesses. And we all know the cliche we hear over and over again that it's those early hours that are most important. And also it's worth noting that because of this storm, a lot of potential evidence was destroyed before police really got the chance to evaluate it. And so at least partially due to all of those factors. And I should also mention that, you know, the next day the media in Baton Rouge understandably was focused on the storm and how it affected all these people, they weren't really paying attention to this murder. So again, at least partially because of all those factors, this crime remains unsolved. And Mr. Tumblin's mother still is looking for answers. She deserves answers. I was also struck, Anya, by some comments made by a police officer in this story. This is Lieutenant Scott Henning. He is the supervisor of the East Baton Rouge Sheriff's County Homicide Division. And he talked about how there's a lot of violence in the community, a lot of murders in Baton Rouge, and he thinks it's very important for the media to go back and do some retrospective articles and for law enforcement officers to kind of talk and cooperate because that gives them a chance to try to get more attention to these cases that deserve it.

[Anya Cain]

Well said. And I. It always is appreciated when you see law enforcement getting out there and talking about some of these cases because no one else is. You know, it.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It.

[Anya Cain]

It can be. It can be a way for them to get some of the attention they deserve. And frankly, sometimes the media is not going to pay attention to them unless they're getting that law enforcement angle coming in saying, hey, this is important. Let's talk about this. I feel so bad for this guy's family. Like, what a horrible set of circumstances. He had a little girl. I mean, he was a father. This never should have happened. And the fact that they're still going through this is horrible. And I really hope they can find answers soon. It's just the whole thing's so tragic. You know, this reminds me of. It reminds me of the case of. There's a case of a gentleman named Heinrich Suak. I'm sorry if I'm saying that name wrong. He was murdered in the early morning hours, or rather in the. In the late evening hours of September 11, 2001.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, my mind went there, too, in New York City.

[Anya Cain]

Right. So that case, unfortunately, it was in Bedford Stuyvesant or Bed Stuy in Brooklyn. He was shot and killed. Unfortunately, he was. That case has never been solved because 9, 11 had just happened and everything was chaos. So there can just be these unlucky situations where somebody is murdered when something else is going on, and it just maybe it would have been solved otherwise.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So we'll go on to the next case. And before we do, I remember last week you said, kevin, if you have qualms about my itineraries, you should step in. And so I stepped in this week.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. Needlessly. Because none of this. We're not actually going to Any of these places.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Don't give people a peek behind the curtain, because I think the listeners imagine that during the course of the hour episode, we are literally traveling from place to place.

[Anya Cain]

Do you think the listeners are children?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Because you originally said, kevin, after the Louisiana case, let's go to Indiana, and then we'll go to California and we'll go back to Indiana. And I said, anya, that would be disastrous from my financial point of view.

[Anya Cain]

Don't you want to play Indiana by the K Star version back home again in Indiana?

[Kevin Greenlee]

So now you're just offering non sequiturs. Whatever. So we're going to go to California, and then we'll go back to Indiana for two cases. Okay, See, that is efficiency. Are you with me on that?

[Anya Cain]

No.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Anya Kane, you have so much to learn doing a California case. My sources for this are Hot 97 and Law Commentary. The crime in this case involves a rapper named Lil Durk, and he is accused of arranging a bounty for one of his rivals, I guess, to be murdered. And the person he was interested in having killed was a guy named Quando Rondo. And I apologize if I'm mispronouncing these names. And Quando Rondo was in a physical altercation with someone at some point who was close with Lil Durk. And then after that, that person's name is King Von was killed. So is it a case where there's, like, a lot of grudges and prosecutors believe that Little Dirk set up a bounty for Quando Rondo?

[Anya Cain]

I'm sorry, why? Hearing you go into this, maybe instead of their stage names, we should call them their real names. It's. It's Taekwein. Terrell Bauman is Quando Rondo, and Lil Durk's real name is Dirk Devante Banks.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So there was a shooting in 2022 at a gas station, and it didn't kill Quando Rondo, but it did kill Savia Lapab Robinson, who was a cousin of Claudo Rondo.

[Anya Cain]

So someone got caught in the crossfire of this.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It's a complicated situation, and prosecutors say Lil Durk.

[Anya Cain]

It's Lil Durk, not Little Dirk.

[Kevin Greenlee]

They say, little Dirk, you are responsible. You helped set up a bounty for this, and he's being charged with this. And now prosecutors say some of the evidence we want to introduce into the case is actually some of your rap lyrics. And that's always an interesting area to go into, because certainly if I write a rap song, let me say it this way. Let's say Anya writes a rap Song in which, in first person, she talks about going down to the grocery store on a certain day and time and stealing cereal boxes. You could say, well, even though this is a rap song, she's providing really strong details that implicate her in a specific crime.

[Anya Cain]

Check out my mixtape. It's out now.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So I would argue that that is something that probably should be admitted. But if Anya was just doing a rap song about, hey, cereal is made to be free, man, and it's just. And having an attitude, I don't know if that should be admitted. And so the defense is saying in this case, some of the things in these rap songs are just general and about attitude. And you, as the prosecutors, you don't understand the world of hip hop and how it works. And if you allow some of this stuff to be introduced, it might bias a little Dirk in front of the jury. So I'm curious, what is your reaction to this?

[Anya Cain]

I agree with you. I think if it's hyper specific, it absolutely is. It should be used. But if it's. If it's just like, oh, I'm gonna, you know, kill my enemies, I don't know, like, that's, you know, again, like, you wouldn't. You wouldn't look at a rock and roll song about that kind of has, like, maybe sexually aggressive lyrics and be like, this guy's definitely a rapist. Right? So, like, when I look at it, I think you should be looking at it through the lens of other genres. And, you know, if. If some. If details are included, though, I think all bets are off. If details are included about what happened or what was planned or what was done, then I think that can be something that goes toward, you know, a motive and kind of establishes things. I don't think that's. I mean, if you're stupid enough to put it in a rap song, then that's kind of your problem at that point.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I'll give you. I'll give you some of the examples. This is interesting enough to me. At some point, it might be worth doing a full episode on.

[Anya Cain]

So you're gonna read rap lyrics now?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I'm gonna give you a couple of examples. On a song by Nardo Wick called who Wants Smoke? He raps about getting it back in blood.

[Anya Cain]

Okay?

[Kevin Greenlee]

And so the prosecutors say, well, that's obviously about his desire for revenge.

[Anya Cain]

I don't know. That seems kind of weak.

[Kevin Greenlee]

There's also. I'm reading from the article, quote, the government has also pointed to music video for Risky, released two months after Robinson's killings. Prosecutors argued that these works, when viewed alongside other evidence, help establish Little Dirk's leadership role within OTF and his financial backing of violent acts. That. That sounds a little weak to me.

[Anya Cain]

Maybe I, I would have to, I mean, I would have to see what they're talking about with the context of the music video and what they're trying to show. If they're able to line that up with like texts about like, haha, we're gonna do a music video and it's gonna be something like something happened, wink, wink. And the music video is like people getting shot in a gas station, then yeah, that would be interesting. If it's, if it's more vague, I guess I'm like, I'm open to what the prosecution might be doing here, but I just. Without knowing the specifics, it could be something that's compelling or it could be something that I think is. I think that lyric about getting it back in blood, you know, a theme in music in general, it's just like heightened emotions. Heightened whatever. Heightened love, heightened hate, whatever. So if you're like doing like a tough guy song about how you're going to get back your enemies, you know, that that doesn't really mean you killed anybody as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't consider that super. I mean, I would, I would want to know like, what the evidence is versus like what you said in that song.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I'm going to read another quote from this article. Quote. In addition, prosecutors have flagged an unreleased song titled Schoom His Ass. Sorry, you're such a child.

[Anya Cain]

What does that even mean? Okay.

[Kevin Greenlee]

An unreleased song titled Scoom His Ass allegedly recovered from a co defendant's cell phone. The track includes references to, quote, bounty hunters and mentions Beverly Hills, which authorities note is geographically close to the location of Robinson's shooting. End quote. That again, sounds weak because if you're just saying, oh, if you mention something that happens in an area that's just close to where the shooting happens, that's good enough for evidence. That just seems weak to me. And the concept of bounty hunters, that doesn't really seem like this is the only time in history it's happened. And the defense attorneys also point out that the government hasn't produced any evidence to indicate who actually wrote these lyrics. So in other words, just because a person is singing a song doesn't mean they wrote the song. You often sing songs by, say, Fleetwood Mac. That doesn't mean you wrote those songs.

[Anya Cain]

I did not write those songs. I will also the prosecutors sound a little bit Like Beatles fans or Taylor Swift fans who read way too much into lyrics and drive themselves insane. I'm not, again, like, there might be more to this than I'd be willing to hear. Hear it out. Like, and. And if they are saying, well, no, this is specific. And this also is specific because they talk in text about, oh, let's put this in the song. And, you know, it kind of connects back. I could. I. There's instances where I could see this all being fine. What's being reported in this article, which, again, is an article and not a legal filing, is. Doesn't really compel me much. You know, I don't. And again, like, sometimes it makes me a little uncomfortable. Rap is considered a predominantly African American genre. And again, when we're, like, comparing it with, like, something like rock and roll. Rock and roll can have a lot of very sexually aggressive lyrics. Right. But I don't think anyone should look at those and say these rock and roll artists are rapists. Maybe some of them are. I don't know, like, like. But, like, make versus just relying on the lyrics. I think it's lazy, and I think it can be used to prejudice people, prejudice jurors against a person. Again, you can write a bunch of tough guy songs and not really be, like, living that lifestyle or not necessarily be involved in a crime. Or you could also be involved in a crime and they're doing all these, like, tough guy lyrics. But that. That shouldn't necessarily be used to convict you. Like, use the evidence that you were involved in the shooting, the actual evidence versus, like, you know, he comes across quite violent in this one song.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I can certainly see how introducing evidence like that could prejudice a jury. I'm no expert on hip hop, but my. My very limited understanding is that at least to a certain extent, when people do rap songs, they might to some extent be playing a character.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And if his character is someone who's just out for revenge, all this other stuff, that doesn't necessarily mean that he actually did those acts. Again, I don't think you can get away with a murder confession just because it happens to be in a rap song. But I think you need to evaluate the way you would evaluate any other incriminating statements. It would only be relevant if you can prove it was made by the person and it has information specifically related to that event.

[Anya Cain]

I always think of that Key and Peele sketch rap album confession where the guy, like, has an album called, like, I Killed Darnell Simmons and all these really specific things. And it's like, That's. That's what I think. I mean, something like that, you know, where someone's being very specific or kind of getting into specific details. I think, you know, you kind of have that coming. You kind of did that to yourself at that point. But if it's just more of, like, revenge blood, you know, let's go to Beverly Hills. That just doesn't. Doesn't sound that compelling. And I would think a murder case, something as serious as murder, would have other evidence that's more compelling and show the jury that, you know, like, you don't need to spice it up with the rap lyrics. Because, again, that just feels, like, overly prejudicial for no reason. I mean, but again, like, I'm not. I'm not opposed to the concept. If. If the rap lyrics have something specific or if the rap lyrics, like, have something that ties into something behind the scenes in terms of other evidence, that's fine to me. It's just that, like, it just shouldn't be vague. And you're right. People do. I mean, this is like, you know, you don't want to get into a situation where it's like, you know, let's say we still had a society that had witch trials. You know, Stevie Nicks wrote Rhiannon. Does that mean she has knowledge of, like, a coven? Like, you know, because it's about a Welsh witch? No, I mean, like, it's just. People write song. A lot of artists are at least leaning into a Persona, leaning into a character, leaning into a kind of a way of being that connects with their audience. And, you know, I don't know, it just kind of. I think it's. It gets a bit silly sometimes. But I get the prosecutors are trying their best to convict someone. They think it's a murderer. But I just don't think we should be overusing weak prejudicial evidence in a case like this. But again, maybe it's not. Maybe there's some really compelling stuff behind the scenes that we're not seeing that makes it make sense. But from the surface, I don't get it.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So now we're going to move on to your final two cases, both which Indiana cases. I apologize if the thematic flow has been interrupted, but it was necessary to save the travel expenses. And we actually are. We actually have come to Indiana for these two cases. Cause we're in Indiana as we speak.

[Anya Cain]

We are in Indiana. We are on the ground.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I want to say, as an Indiana native, we gotta bow down to Louisiana because our nickname game. We need to work on it. I mean, I'm just being blunt.

[Anya Cain]

We're the Hoosier State, and Hoosier means someone from Indiana.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So it's like, duh, yeah, they got the Pelican State. They've got the Sportsman's Paradise.

[Anya Cain]

I feel like Indiana, like, slept on this assignment. And then when it came time to turn in our nickname, we were like, oh, what we got here? What do we got? People from Indiana live in Indiana.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Hoosier.

[Anya Cain]

Hoosier State. And then they turn that in, and I just don't feel like there was.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And you're also not even bothering to point out that Hoosier itself is a kind of a nonsense word.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, but it makes for some fun phrases, but, you know, like, who's your daddy? And stuff. But I still think that's not fun. I think it's fun. I think it's fun. I'm going to. I'm going to. I'm going to give him that. I just think. Yeah. Do we have another. Are we, like, the crossroads of America or something, too?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, but I mean, does that work for you? I think the crossroads of America is like, oh, if you're in Indiana, it's really easy for you to get to more interesting places. I remember. I just hop on the road.

[Anya Cain]

I love this one conversation we had with my friend's dad. Love. Lovely, lovely gentleman at her wedding. And he was like, you guys are in Indiana. He's like, I remember Indiana. You could drive any which way and get anywhere. I was like, yeah, it's the crossroads of America. He was so pro. Indiana randomly. But, yeah, no, it's. It's, you know.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, if you come to Indiana, it's very easy to leave Indiana. Yeah, that's where the crossroads are. We can do better.

[Anya Cain]

It's one of the big benefits. It's easy to leave Indiana.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think we need to reach out to people in Louisiana. They clearly know what they're doing.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. Get them. Get their branding team on this now.

[Kevin Greenlee]

The Sportsman's Paradise.

[Anya Cain]

I will say this before we go on. I. I do I speak. I feel like we've ticked off a lot of Hoosiers with this episode. May have split our audience in half with some of these statements about the Hoosier State. I want to apologize for some of my statements about a great Hoosier institution.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, you made some rash and intemperate statements, and scorn and acrimony has been raining down upon you ever since. Justifiably. Is that fair to say?

[Anya Cain]

What the hell, Kevin?

[Kevin Greenlee]

You've embarrassed Yourself. You've embarrassed the program.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, I did. So I said. And speaking of rap, I blame Wiz Khalifa for this. So I'm not even taking accountability here. I said that Purdue University's school colors were black and yellow, and I was totally wrong. They are black and gold. Specifically old gold. Specifically boilermaker gold. So it's gold, not yellow. I am so sorry. I was not trying to start anything with Purdue. I got really into Indiana University IU football this year, but that doesn't mean I have anything against Purdue. We've been up to West Lafayette a ton of.

[Kevin Greenlee]

My father.

[Anya Cain]

Kevin's father is a boilermaker, part of the Boilermaker Nation. So I tip my hat to the boilermakers. Please accept this complimentary set of plumbing tools. I don't know. What is it? Boilermaker.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Anya. Anya. You've made it worse.

[Anya Cain]

I made it worse? Why are they called that? I'm actually gonna look that up right now. Cause I love the name. Do you remember when we were walking in Indianapolis once, and I guess Purdue had just won a game of some sort of. And then someone was like, boilermakers. And they, like, high fived you. That was fun. So that's always what I think.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I just remember I was stunned and just said, yeah. And I didn't know what was going on.

[Anya Cain]

You didn't know what was going on?

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I just kept walking. So.

[Anya Cain]

Wow. Okay. This is crazy. So they talked about how they played football against Wabash College, which is in Crawfordsville, and students. And this is from Wikipedia, students from Crawfordsville started calling the Purdue guys a great big burly gang of corn Huskers, pumpkin shuckers, rail splitters, blacksmiths. What the. Like, what don't you think of the Purdue guys are like, what the hell is wrong with these people? Cornfield sailors and foundry hands. So wait, what does that have to do with boilermakers, then?

[Kevin Greenlee]

In fairness, you, Anya, are a bit of a Cornfield Sam Sailor.

[Anya Cain]

Oh. The Crawfordsville Daily Argus News said, slaughter of. So Purdue dominated Wabash, beating them 44 to nothing. And then. This is an amazing headline from the Crawfordsville Daily Argus News. Slaughter of innocents. Wabash snowed completely under by burly boilermakers from Purdue. That's awesome. Good for Purdue. That's a great origin story.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So is this continuing our new tradition of randomly during the program, you're going to insert some historical fun facts?

[Anya Cain]

I just. I needed to get to the bottom of it. Cause I realized it's.

[Kevin Greenlee]

They don't always have to be about Jamestown.

[Anya Cain]

No, I'm Just. I don't know anything about this. I'm just learning about it. I think that's really shady of Wabash to be calling them some of those things.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Cornfield sailors is a great phrase.

[Anya Cain]

Yes, but, like, burly gang of corn Huskers. Derogatory.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So should take out the calendar and pencil in next week. Your apology to Wabash.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, God. Well, I didn't get their colors wrong. Wabash colors are Wabash scarlet, and that's it, apparently, so.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It's a fine school, Wabash.

[Anya Cain]

I'm not saying they're not a fine school. I'm just saying they were a little bit shady to Purdue there.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Don't call. Don't call Wabash shady.

[Anya Cain]

I'm not. I'm just saying they were being a little salty.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I'm trying to avert the next apologies.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, my goodness. I gave them a compliment. They had a great headline. Slaughter of innocence is really funny when it comes to a football game. But, yeah, they.

[Kevin Greenlee]

In most other contexts, slaughter of innocence is not funny, and we know that. So I'm trying to stop the emails that are going to flood in with your rash of intemperate comments.

[Anya Cain]

Well, their mascot is a boilermaker special, which is kind of a locomotive that goes around to different places. That's pretty cool.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I'm just worried that the longer you talk about this, it's gonna be a combination of people tuning out and other people, like the fine students of Wabash getting angry and furious.

[Anya Cain]

Well, isn't that my effect on people? Usually? So, I mean, it's not really that different.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You drive people away or make them furious. No, I think they have that effect on the audience. No, in most contexts, you're a beloved figure.

[Anya Cain]

No.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Cherished by right thinking Americans of every race, creed, and color.

[Anya Cain]

That's definitely not true. I'll. So much of the. So much of, like, the hate we receive is directed at me, and people are just like, Kevin's. You know, Kevin's a gem. I would follow Kevin into hell. But, Anya, I think.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think you're beloved.

[Anya Cain]

I. That's definitely. That's not what I've seen. So you're silly.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Beloved of this house.

[Anya Cain]

Well, that. I appreciate that. That would be really concerning. You're like, yeah, the backlash is even reaching the Greenlee household.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Look at these numbers. Adya.

[Anya Cain]

Wow, you are polling poorly in our own house. You and Nick teamed up against me.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And Nick, of course, is our dog.

[Anya Cain]

Yes. People know that at this point.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So every episode is someone's first episode.

[Anya Cain]

They have no idea what's going on. So let's go to so we're in Indiana, this is out of Sullivan county and I just kind of came across this cold case. I don't think anyone sent this to us. Apologies if you did, but I think I just stumbled across this. My sources are mywabashvalley.com and forensic magazine and I also access through the newspapers.com amazing website, the associated Press, the Indianapolis Star and the Marian Chronicle Tribune. We are living in the ruins of a great empire, as has been said often, because when you used to look at newspaper articles they would actually have a ton of information and nowadays all we have is just stupid next door posts. So thanks social media for that. But let's look at this. So this is a 35 year old cold case. On Friday, January 2, 1981, a woman named Sarah or Jeanette Benson was shot and killed in Sullivan County. And the Sullivan County Sheriff's Office and the Indiana State Police continue to work on this case. So newspapers at the time list Ms. Ben Mrs. Benson as a 51 year old housewife. They say she was living in Farmersburg, Indiana in Sullivan County. And that evening, January 2nd, she came home from shopping and likely walked in on someone burglarizing her home. And her husband, Emory Benson then came home around 7pm saw the door was pried open and the items were missing and thought she had been kidnapped. So he called authorities but then found her in the spare bedroom. She had been shot and killed with a small handgun. Police quickly believed she surprised a burglar and they pursued a lot of leads but there was nothing enough for any arrest. Now there were some witness sightings that are important here. And this is something that especially if you're in Sullivan county or in the surrounding counties or you know, people from Sullivan county, raise awareness. I'll include the links to the articles on in our show notes and you can send them this episode, send them timestamps. Let's just get people talking this but the neighbors of the Benson saw a blue sedan pull into the driveway of their home. That was just before Mrs. Benson arrived at her home. So this is a quote from Sullivan County Sheriff Jason Bobbit from social media. Quote, one of the witnesses thought the vehicle was an older Plymouth Valiant, describing it as robin egg blue. Another and then so that's the quote. And then another witness also said it may have been a gm describing it as having, quote, shiny blue paint. And then another neighbor observed a white male wearing a vest exit the vehicle and knock on Mrs. Benson's door. The vest was described as a down vest. And a few years ago, police also released a picture of, based on witness sightings, what this guy's shoes may have looked like. And they released a photograph of similar shoes that the killer may have worn. I go on these articles, I think it's the forensic magazine one where you can see his shoes. If that's jogging any memories, it's it's time to get in touch with authorities. So investigators believe the guy who was seen by witnesses around the house was likely the murderer. He was described as thin. He was described as tall, possibly in his 20s at the time. That means he very well could still be alive because he was young back then. Anyone with an information about this murder, about anything, please contact the Sullivan County Sheriff's office at 812-268-4308. Or if you want, you can go to the Indiana State Police instead and you can reach them out. Reach out to them at 765-653-4114. I think that's the number for the Putnamville Post. So that would be the post that's going to help the Sullivan County Sheriff's Office. Talk to your if you're in Sullivan county and this all happened before your time, talk to your parents or if you were around at this time, talk to your friends who had sketchy friends, Right. If you, you know, maybe, maybe mom and dad used to kind of run with a bit of a rough crowd and now they got out of it. But maybe they know some people who might know something about this. Relationships change over time. With a cold case like this, if you can kind of kick up the mud and kick up stuff, then it's going to really benefit the case. So this is what Sheriff Jason Bobbitt said in his social media post recently, quote, over time, relationships change and it is not uncommon that someone with information could come forward to bring closure to the senseless murder. So again, investigators believe the murder would likely now be in his 60s. And this is a senseless tragedy that took away Mrs. Benson's life. She had a life. She was a devoted wife and mother. She was married to Emory Otis Benson. They had two children together and three grandchildren. So their family deserves answers. And hopefully people can kind of keep sharing this. And if you knew any really sketchy, tall, thin white guys who had specific shoes back in the 80s, call the police. Now. The other case I just wanted to update quickly is a case we also covered last week. This is the case of a runaway. She's 16 years old she's been missing since January 12, 2026. And her name is Lillian Marie Key. Again, 16 years old, went missing from Avon, Indiana. She may be still in the Avon area. She may have gone to Indianapolis. She may have gone to Chicago or V. Indiana. So, you know, she could be anywhere. But she needs to be found and brought home. Her. Her ears and nose are pierced. She has a tattoo on her ankle. And she is a kid who is out there. And I'm hoping by the. We're recording this like a week in advance. I'm hoping by the time that this comes out there she's found and it's all okay. But we've seen with the Hailey Busby case that these runaways, they could be in danger. You know, even if they've run away, even if it's a voluntary disappearance in the beginning, that does not mean that they're not endangered. So this is. This is a kid. My understanding from talking with people familiar with this case, familiar with this issue, is that Lillian had been placed in a new foster home a couple of weeks before she left. And she and another girl left together, but the other girl returned after a few days. She may be somewhere in the area of the basic vicinity of 21st and Post Road, but nobody knows. And people are concerned that she could be in danger. And, you know, this is something where Avon is in Hendricks county, which is to the west of Indianapolis. The Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department would be responsible for possibly, you know, bringing her home. But I think there's some concerns about, you know, their level of resources that they're going to put into this. You know, this is. This is some. This is a kid who's been through some tough, tough things. This is something where she's had struggles. She's had profound struggles. And that breaks my heart for her. And I hope that we can convey from again, people who know her that she is loved and people do care about her and she should come home. I'll include a link to the national center for Missing and Exploited Children's page about her. It has her picture. If you're in Indianapolis or any of the places I listed, please take a look. You see her, call 91 1. She could be in danger. She could be in a bad situation, and she needs to be brought to safety. And again, Lillian, if you're. You are hearing this, people do care about you. Come. Come back. Come home. So anyways, those are my Indiana cases.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well said. Do you have promotional announcements to make?

[Anya Cain]

Yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Please proceed.

[Anya Cain]

Wait, do we have an anecdote?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Don't we do the promotional announcements.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, we do? Yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Because this is the. This is the worst part of the show, right? The promotional announcements. And we're worried that people are going to tune out. So we think, well, maybe if we toss together some really dull anecdote, people that'd be so much better than the dull promotional announcements.

[Anya Cain]

You're letting everyone know our secrets.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Oh, everybody knows all of our secrets. You're an open book.

[Anya Cain]

Am I?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah.

[Anya Cain]

I wanted to be cool and mysterious. So our next event is March 12, 2026. It's a Thursday, Marion, Ohio. We're doing an event at the Marion Library at 6:30pm get more [e-mail] events. Click on the little link where it says get information here. And it's gonna be super fun and we're really excited. So please come say hi, hang out with us.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And the home of Warren G. Harding. You love your newspaper guys. He was a newspaper guy. He became president.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Not sure it worked out for him. No, we talk about that later. But he was a newspaper guy.

[Anya Cain]

Teapot Dome did not work out for him. And he died. And he was kind of. He was.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, everybody dies.

[Anya Cain]

Well, I mean, he died.

[Kevin Greenlee]

If you were an adult in the 20s, the 1920s, you're dead, you're gone.

[Anya Cain]

Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Sorry for the reality shot there. But I mean, let's face it, that's the nature of the world, baby.

[Anya Cain]

Let's just move on. Sir.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, you act like it's breaking news.

[Anya Cain]

You know, I'm just saying he died in the middle of his presidency. I'm not saying like he died in general.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Actually he died at the end of his presidency because as soon as he died, it was over.

[Anya Cain]

Any repercussions of the scandal?

[Kevin Greenlee]

It wasn't like he died in the middle of year two and they kept him president.

[Anya Cain]

Do you think he died to Just like he died suddenly, but he didn't really get the repercussions right, like, so he just kind of escaped that.

[Kevin Greenlee]

There is a very, very entertaining book that is completely inaccurate and completely unreliable, but which says, guess what, folks, these scandals were coming out. He was about to face terrible repercussions. So to spare him that, his wife, known as the Duchess, killed him.

[Anya Cain]

Put him down.

[Kevin Greenlee]

That's the Strange Death of Warren G. Hardings by Gaston Means, who's a fascinating character. He pops up in the Lindbergh kidnapping too.

[Anya Cain]

Of course he does. Everyone does. Back then, that was where all the cranks of the 30s and 20s.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It's a very entertaining book. I can't recommend it, though, because it's completely untrue.

[Anya Cain]

So he blames the first lady. Not Silent Cal, the silent killer. He's saying she was doing it to spare him the anguish of being exposed.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah.

[Anya Cain]

Wow.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I haven't read this book in, like, 30 years. It's probably not in your lifetime. Another scene that the book is footnoted, but there's like, one scene where it says, oh, this person died. And, you know, he was afraid of heights, and he was at the top floor of a hotel. Like, people ran up there and they killed him. They just killed him. And there was a footnote. And so I remember, like, looking at the footnote and they said, yes, he was afraid of heights. But we digress.

[Anya Cain]

So, so stupid.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Oh, it's a delightful book.

[Anya Cain]

Just, like, make it source. I made it up.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So here's my little anecdote. And you don't. You don't have to worry about this because your name is very, very uncommon.

[Anya Cain]

Yes. Very unique name, and I'm very proud of that.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes, you take great pride in that.

[Anya Cain]

I do.

[Kevin Greenlee]

My name is much more common. I'm more of a man of the people.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, please.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I like being part of the Kevin Greenlee community. There's actually a Facebook group called Just Kevin Greenlee's or something. And there's like 13 or 14 of us in there.

[Anya Cain]

Just Kevin Greenlee things.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It's not very active. But also, you don't want me to get my actual personal email address. But my. I don't think it matters, because even if people write me, I ignore my emails. Now, I'm perfectly capable of ignoring any emails that come in, but in my email address, it has my name. And before my current email address, I had a hotmail address, which also just had my name. And so I often get emails for other Kevin Greenleans. And I was thinking about that this week because there's apparently a Kevin Greenlee who either lives or was traveling in the California area and had some sort of traffic accident, because now I'm getting all of these car repair estimates emailed to me for this poor Kevin Greenlee's accident. And so I have to send them back. No, you're sending it to the wrong person. There have been a couple of times.

[Anya Cain]

How do these people not know their own emails?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, I think people have probably pretty similar email addresses. I'm guessing. I don't know.

[Anya Cain]

I think that's stupid. Go ahead.

[Kevin Greenlee]

The two times I can think of where it's been most interesting having A common name. One involves email, the other one doesn't. The one that doesn't is about 20 years ago, I was involved in some online discussions about autism, and people believed.

[Anya Cain]

I'm sure that was all very rational, right?

[Kevin Greenlee]

People believed that autism was caused by vaccines, and this truth is being prevented from coming out by people tied to Big Pharma. And I would say, no, that's not actually true. Autism is not caused by vaccines. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And by the time I was doing that, someone found an article that was just published about a big pharma executive named Kevin Greenlee who's, like, driving around in, like, a big expensive Cadillac or something. And so people were like, ah, we gotcha.

[Anya Cain]

Nailed it. This podcast is brought to you by.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Big Pharma, and it wasn't me. I have no ties to Big Pharma.

[Anya Cain]

No, you don't. So funny though, You hate to have to hand it to the anti vaxxers, but they got you on that one.

[Kevin Greenlee]

They got me there.

[Anya Cain]

They got you good. Oh, my God. Were you just like, wait, what?

[Kevin Greenlee]

If I recall correctly, this has been over 20 years ago. It was one of those cases where, like, the first paragraph was free and the rest was behind a payphone wall. And this first paragraph, this Kevin Greenlee, is just, oh, I'm a big pharma. I have this great big car. Life is great.

[Anya Cain]

I love vaccines, baby, Keep the money going.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So that was one instance. And then another instance happened even earlier when I was in college and I got an email from a woman. It was a very long and detailed email where she talked at length about how much our friendship meant to her. And I don't know this woman, but how much our friendship meant to her and how special it was that last night, the previous night, before I was leaving on a trip, we'd gotten together romantically for the first time ever. And it doesn't have to last, but just that moment was so special. It was the most romantic, pleasurable experience of my life. And I'm thinking, well, the part about romantic and most pleasurable experience in your life, that sounds like it could be me. But on the night in question, I was pretty sure I was sitting alone in my apartment eating Cheetos and reading comic books, so it wasn't me.

[Anya Cain]

A typical Tuesday for you.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I wrote her back and we exchanged a couple of emails. And it turned out, oddly enough, we had some things in common. But she quickly said, I really like you. Part of me really wants to continue talking to you and getting to know you. But it's just too painful and bizarre for me to be exchanging emails with a Kevin Greenlee who's not my Kevin Greenlee.

[Anya Cain]

Does anyone else think it's kind of down low to be trying to steal another Kevin Greenlee's gal there?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think that other Kevin Greenlee was a cat, because from context clues, I think he was just using her for a night of pleasure before he goes, takes his trip. And so, yeah, that's. I.

[Anya Cain]

Okay, so you were doing that. You were being the chivalrous one is what you're saying.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And she lived in, like, another state.

[Anya Cain]

Okay.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think it was California. Maybe it's the Kevin Greenlee who's currently having car trouble.

[Anya Cain]

He's. He's doing a lot out there. He's doing too much maybe.

[Kevin Greenlee]

He's also the drug company executive.

[Anya Cain]

Big pharma. Kevin Greenlee is breaking women's hearts and crashing cars. That's what he does. And you have to pick up all the records.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think there's a. Obviously, there's a Kevin Greenlee who's a composer. We use his fine music on this program. I think there's a Kevin Greenlee who's a minister. There's a bunch of us.

[Anya Cain]

Wow. Diverse crew.

[Kevin Greenlee]

But you. You're like, according to you, you're the last Anya Kane standing.

[Anya Cain]

What am I the last Anya? There's no other we. There wasn't a bunch of us that died. I don't think you defeated them. Yeah, I did. They're gone now. Don't. Don't. No one has to worry about them anymore. They're bad people. No, I. I just have an un. I just have a very unusual name because no one knows how to pronounce it in America. Go to Ireland, and they know what. What's going on. But, you know, here, no, there's too many vowels, too few consonants in the first name. Three vowels in one. One consonant.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Too many vowels. The Anya Cain story. Sportsman's paradise.

[Anya Cain]

What kills me. I'm gonna. I'm gonna. You know, I'm gon Gonna get a little spicier when people butcher my first name. I don't care. You know, I don't expect English speakers to comprehend the Irish language because it's. It's. It's confusing, right? It's not something you're normally hearing. Most of the Irish names we have in America are Anglicized to make it easier, so that's fine. I'm not. I'm not mad about that. When people put the accent on the E or whatever, they're trying to do. I just appreciate the effort and I salute them. That what grinds my frigging gears to steal it from coffee and waffles is when people tack on they. This. I've never seen this in the wild. Pisses me off every time. Not really. I'm just mostly joking, but it pisses me off a little bit. People tack an extra E onto cane, like to make it match. Anya. What the. Why are we doing this? Just. No, it's biblical Cain. It's the first murderer in the Bible. It's really easy. It's on brand for me, you know, why are we tacking the extra eon? I've never seen Cain with a C and an E. I've seen K A I, N E. I've never seen the one with C. Stop doing the E thing. Our publisher did that to me at first on our Amazon thing, and I was like, guys, I write like, I'm one of your authors. How are we doing this? You know that just.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You're getting worked up. So should we end the episode?

[Anya Cain]

I just stopped. Whoever. Whoever's doing that. Whoever's organizing that. And don't, you know, just C A, I, n. That's it.

[Kevin Greenlee]

All right, Amy.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, that's what. Remember Alan Pruitt used to call me that. Hey, Amy, I think I'm not going to explain to this man how to really pronounce it, because we're just going to be here all day. Poor. So do you have a favorite? I mean, you don't have to say it on the show. Do you have a favorite Kevin Greenlee? Other than yourself, obviously.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, obviously.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, Tyler. Kevin, Tyler.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Kevin Tyler. He wrote our music.

[Anya Cain]

Yes. And he's not our son, but we do appreciate him. We do think he's a very talented young man. It's crazy how we can explain that so many times on the show, but you always get new listeners who are like, is that their son?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Every episode is someone's first episode.

[Anya Cain]

True Crime's Nepo Baby. Some people think that you're my favorite are the people who think that you're Kevin Tyler Greenlee. And you're, like, trying to, like, DJ in the background.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Because people think of me as, like, a Renaissance man.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, you can do it all. You can do it all. All right. Was there anything else we had to say? Any more apologies? Any more random stuff?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think there's nothing else that needs to be said on any subject whatsoever.

[Anya Cain]

Okay, that's the end of the podcast.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Hit the button. Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email [e-mail]. if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[Anya Cain]

If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com murdersheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www. Buymeacoffee.com murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the [e-mail] if you're looking to talk with.

[Anya Cain]

Other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening. Oh, oh, right, the pancakes thing. Okay, so should I do another breakfast food?

[Kevin Greenlee]

It's up to you.

[Anya Cain]

French toast.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So is that the code word? And what are we going to do with this?

[Anya Cain]

Nothing. Well, I mean, I don't know.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Should we have, like, a little club of people who listen to the end?

[Anya Cain]

I think everyone who is commenting French toast and pancakes and stuff like that, you guys are the real ones. Okay.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And then do we need to pay some sort of licensing fee to the Viper Pit if we start. If we keep doing.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, yeah, we can't just steal the. Well, I mean, we were doing breakfast cereal for a while, so I think there's plenty at the breakfast table. Right. It's one of those wholesome breakfast tables you see in cereal commercials where for some reason you're eating cereal but with a bunch of other breakfast food.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Don't get her started on cereal.

[Anya Cain]

And. But I think it. This is just more of. I don't know why you did this in the last episode. And what was funny, by the way? I just want to say this. Everyone started commenting pancakes in our Patreon right away. Appreciate you guys. Love you guys.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Bless you all.

[Anya Cain]

Bless you all. But what was really funny was that Kevin looks at this and he's like, aha. Everyone's saying pancakes. And then he pauses for a beat and is like, why did I do this? It's very Kevin.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, the glee followed by the questioning.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yes.

[Anya Cain]

Wait, why did I do this? All right, well, thanks for listening.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Do you have anything else to say? These are the hardcore listeners. Do you have a secret message? Just leave them alone.

[Anya Cain]

I just. I appreciate. You guys are the real ones, and it's. It's the real ones who are sticking it out to the end, and then it's also the people who have, you know, like, their phone is on the other side of the room. They're doing Bluetooth headphones as they're folding laundry and being like, what is going on right now? Like, I just, like, let me get to the next podcast. And they're scrambling for their phone as we speak to move on from this. And I respect that, too.

[Kevin Greenlee]

At one point, didn't I find someone using the name Anya Cain in, like, another country for, like, makeup videos?

[Anya Cain]

Oh, yeah, don't worry. I took care of it. No, I'm just kidding.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Jesus.

[Anya Cain]

Now the prosecutor's gonna be using our podcast as evidence that I'm a criminal. Yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

What if she's. What if something terrible happens to her?

[Anya Cain]

I'm just like, Lil Durk, it's gonna happen to me.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, you're a little obby.

[Anya Cain]

Little Ani's going to jail. I, I, I, I, you know, I, I would, you know, I would expect you to get on here and be, like, judge a. You know, a criminal by the podcast they have, you know, you'd have to.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Would Little Ani be your rap name?

[Anya Cain]

No. I, I don't know. I, I'm not. I would not be a good rapper for many reasons.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I can't think of one.

[Anya Cain]

I, I don't know.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You have a great sense of rhythm.

[Anya Cain]

No, I don't.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You. You have a lovely singing voice.

[Anya Cain]

No, I don't.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You have the attitude, the tough attitude.

[Anya Cain]

I do have that, yes.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think you. You'd be. And you dress very stylishly.

[Anya Cain]

I told you. This is gonna sound weird, but I didn't really understand rap beefs for a long time because I was like, why don't we just all get along and, you know, everyone just, you know, do their own rap and enjoy that and have a good time, have fun with it. And then once we started getting into true crime podcast, I immediately got rap beefs, so that should. Yeah. So I think I could. I could embody that, at least.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah.

[Anya Cain]

Not the talent part, just the anger.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You're very talented. You are a delight.

[Anya Cain]

Aw, you're a little sweetie.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think that's it.

[Anya Cain]

You're my favorite Kevin. Greenlee. Sorry, Kevin Tyler.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Anya Cain]

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