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- [00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
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B
Early birds Always rise to the occasion for summer vacation planning because early gets you closer to the action. So don't be late. Book your next vacation early on VRBO and save over $120. Rise and shine average savings $141. Select homes only. I'm Anya Cain, and today on the Cheat Sheet, we're going to be discussing a couple of different cases around the country, including a notable cold case that may be headed toward a resolution. Content Warning this episode contains discussion of murder, violence, sexual sexual assault and other crimes. So, Kevin, I guess we're going. You're the one taking us across the sea to the United Kingdom this time.
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C
Well, I thought we'd broaden our horizons, see the world. I think that could be very useful to us.
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B
Yeah, well, I. Good luck to us at the airport. I guess we're going to be get there pretty early to make our flight to the U.K. yeah.
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C
Going to the U.K. well, perhaps we could take one of your biplanes, one of your cruisers.
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B
Yeah. Bypass the whole TSA mess.
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C
One of your B29s. Is that something? What is a B29? Like a plane?
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B
I don't know, man. I don't know. I don't know anything about planes.
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C
I don't think you feel safe in a dirigible anymore.
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B
No. Not after what you did. My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.
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C
And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I an attorney.
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B
And this is the Murder Sheet.
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C
We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're the murder sheet.
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B
And this is the cheat sheet. Lovers, Lanes and Liars. It.
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C
Moments before we started recording, you strode into the room, much like a dog knocking things over.
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B
What just happened?
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C
And we started recording. Our dog knocked something over. I don't know.
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B
He knocked down a big whiteboard. Nicholas?
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C
Yeah.
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B
He's okay, though, folks, I know that sounded pretty scary. For a minute, I was like, what's happening behind me? And he's coming to me for comfort
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C
because I think he.
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B
He startled himself.
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C
Yeah. So I don't even know if that noise will show up on the phone.
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B
I don't know. People might be like, what the heck are these people talking About.
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C
But you, you came into the room moments before we started recording, you grabbed me firmly by the lapels and you said, kevin, I must do the first case this week.
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B
I didn't say that.
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C
You said, kevin, the honor of the first case of the week goes to me because to you Yonr, you, you think the person who does the opening case, that's a huge deal. So I.
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B
No, I don't. I don't. This is all just li. The liar in the title of this episode is Kevin. Apparently so. Well done, sir.
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C
No problem.
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B
Yeah, thanks. So my sources for this one are KE TV and abc, as well as the Houston Post, the Houston Chronicle, Marshall News messenger, and the Odessa American as accessed by Newspapers.com. this case is out of Texas. This is one of those cases. I don't know if any of you guys are like me, but like, you ever have those cases where you, you know a fair amount about them. You don't necessarily like, they're always kind of in the periphery. You, you think about them, they're really horrifying and you hope they get solved. Those unsolved cases, you're maybe not like all familiar with the ins and outs, but you maybe have encountered it a couple times watching different programs or reading old news articles and whatnot, and you're just like, man, I hope that one gets solved. This is one for me. This is one of those cases where I was kind of vaguely aware of it and always kind of would check in on it, maybe occasionally be like, did anything happen where it's, you know, getting solved. So the case I'm talking about are the murders of Cheryl Henry and Garland Andrew, known as Andy Atkinson out of Houston, Texas. This is a particularly sick and heinous case. And I think that's why it's stuck in my mind because it's just like disgusts me that there are people out there like this, doing this to people, and you want it to get solved. But there's been a big development in this case recently. Like huge. So let's talk about the case itself. And just so you know, I've seen it reported that both Cheryl and Andy were 22 years old. I've also seen that Andy was 21 years result. I don't know what's accurate. I've just seen it both ways in the news articles that I read. So I apologize. But this case goes back to August of 1990. So Cheryl Henry and Andy Atkinson were a young couple. Atkinson or Andy was at. In Houston for a summer vacation visiting his. He was raised by his Grandparents by his grandmother in North Carolina. He was in a senior year at Campbell University in North Carolina, but he was going to Houston and he started dating Cheryl Henry. They were dating for about three weeks. By all accounts, they were getting along super well. Things were going really well. They were really head over heels for one another. Cheryl was telling people that he was the man she was going to marry. And they went out in this kind of young relationship out for a night of fun. So a little bit of more background on these two young people. Henry was a graduate of the Lee high school in 1986, went to Kilgore Junior Colle for a year, and then also studied at the Stephen F. Austin University. And a little more background into kind of their. Their work. Andy worked at Gold's Gym and they also. It sounds like Cheryl did some work at a club called Rick's Cabaret, kind of as an exotic dancer, while Andy kind of worked the door at a club owned by his dad, Dream Street. And, you know, so they kind of had that. They were doing that. They both had that in common. But they were getting along great. And, you know, they were just going on a date that night. So they went to the Bayou Mama, which was a nightclub. And they were last seen on, I think it was August. They. They went out on a double date with Cheryl's sister and her boyfriend on August 21, 1990. Party into the evening, August 22, 1990. The sisters and their dates say goodbye to each other and they leave. And then, unfortunately, Cheryl and Andy never made it back home from there. They're missing. And so something has happened. Meanwhile, on, I believe it was August. Let's see, August 23rd, a security guard for Cisco Food Security is doing his rounds. And he's on the west side of Houston, the far west side. It's kind of an undeveloped area at that time, at least. And there's. He's on the 1300 block of Enclave Road where he sees an abandoned vehicle. And he notices it. I think he sees it around 5pm he's like, okay, that's there. Three hours later, he comes back and sees it once again. So it hasn't moved. That's where a security guard's gonna start saying, okay, I'm a little bit concerned about this. So police bring in their cadaver dog. They're responding to this. They notice a couple of pretty concerning things. The car is apparently bloodied and there are articles of clothing spread around outside of it. The back window is all. There's also a window that's smashed in the Car. And so, okay, something bad may have happened. They find a woman's shoes and purse on the front floorboard. The seats are reclined back. It looks like a couple went out there to like make out or neck or whatever you want to call it because it's a notable lover's lane area. But they were interrupted and something bad happened. And unfortunately, something bad did happen. A search of the area confirmed that a horrible murder had taken place. Cheryl was found in a wooded area lying with her hands tied behind her back with hemp rope and her throat had been slashed three times. There had been a, quote, feeble attempt to cover her with rotting cedar boards, seemingly taking from a nearby fence. So she had been horribly murdered. She was also naked. And investigators later learned that she had been raped. So that's what happened. But they cannot find Andy. So the search continues. This is something that will, you know, kind of a point of controversy within a case. We are known for covering the Delphi murders case, but police actually called off the search for this one. They called off the search at a certain point in the night. They left a police officer to guard the scene, essentially J.J. wilson. That was officer J.J. wilson with the Houston Police Department. He remained on scene throughout the night. When the sun rose and it started getting light out, he resumed his search. And he found unfortunately, the body of Andy at 9am and his throat had been severed so severely that his head was nearly severed. So he, like Cheryl, had his hands bound, bound behind his back with hemp rope. And they said they weren't as tight or maybe like he was in the process of getting out, it's not clear. And he was leaning up against a nearby tree. So they were, I think about like 200 and 100 yards from the car. They weren't very far. But it, it seemed like someone had, you know, led, tied them up, led them away and then slit both their throats and also raped Cheryl. So just a horrible, horrible case. It seems like police pretty quickly were like, yeah, we don't necessarily think this was like, we think someone may have been targeting a couple that they didn't necessarily know these people and they just got unlucky and happened to run into the wrong monster that night. But they start getting tips, they hear from like 30 people who hurt, may have heard or seen something weird around that area around that night. At one point they were looking at a possible connection with a 30 year, 36 year old woman who had been murdered in her apartment in west Houston, Adelia Amador. But there was no link to that that they could find. They start offering rewards over the years. 5,000, I've seen 10,000, 50,000. Like they're trying to put out different things for people to kind of come and call in and say, what's going on. Some people speculated that it may have been related to one of their work at some of these clubs because there was actually then. And also, like, I mean, it's just a creepy scene when you, when you read about it. Like there were like deflated balloons over one of the trees near one of the bodies. It's just all very creepy and horrible. I mean, this was extremely painful for their families who survived them. So in terms of developments, a big one happened in, I believe it was 2000, where. So there was a letter that came into police postmarked March 1, 2001, and it said in block letters, if you want to know who killed C. Henry and A. Atkinson, it will cost a hundred thousand dollars. And then it told them to Reply in the March 12, 2001, Houston Chronicle edition and quote, a lawyer will be hired to make sure you play straight. So the police played along with this. I mean, I think they were probably hoping for almost like a situation like Dennis Raider, the buffoonish serial killer who got caught because police told him they couldn't track him via floppy disk. He was a serial murderer in Wichita, Kansas and Park City, Kansas, and he got busted in the stupidest way possible. What happened with him was. And he was known as btk, but I prefer to call him by his real name because why give him any
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C
sort of, you know, cool nickname?
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B
Yes, he's the floppy disk fool. So he. What happened with that is a retrospective article appeared in the newspaper. And Dennis Raider is like this kind of middle aged guy who doesn't feel like a cool guy anymore because he's not killing people. So he gets all agitated of like, oh, they think I'm gone. I'm not gone. I'll write the police again. And then to kind of set apart his downfall. Police couldn't figure out this one though, because the last retrospective had been September 13, 2000. So it's been a whole year. They're just kind of like, is that related? We don't know. Could that be the killer writing us? We don't know. But they're going to take a chance. They write back, they say, we do want to know what you know about Henry slash Atkinson. And they gave them a number to call to like, you know, make sure we play fair and stuff. Nobody ever gets in touch. They, they don't find anything. They don't think it's anything that they think it's sexual. They don't think it's like a theft or something gone wrong because the, you know, they still had money in the car. Andy still had his watch on. It didn't make any sense. I mean, it almost looked like the car was left, like in an auxiliary position where they were like listening to a cassette tape when they were attacked. But they do note here that they have DNA. They, they said they have DNA. They're clearing different suspects with DNA. They actually looked at the serial killer, Angela Materino Resendez. They didn't find any link with the DNA. They had it in at least the statewide combined DNA index system. They had it in a lab at Baylor College of Medicine. So they're doing what they can with that. Houston Police Department Sgt. Billy Belk, who is one of the detectives on it at one point did note that he thought there was one more than one attacker because there were two victims. And, and because they were both young, athletic victims. I'm going to tell you right here, I understand why he said that. But knowing what I know about how these crimes happen, I don't think there has to be at all. If you come upon a young couple in a vulnerable situation and they're not expecting this to happen, I think you can overpower people as long as you present a weapon and kind of keep control of the situation. I think that happens all the time. I think we need to like, we need to remove from our minds the idea that more than one person is necessary to overpower multiple people. In the case of another Texas oriented case, we know that Robert Eugene Bershears in multiple situations overpowered multiple people. Like up to four people at once.
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C
Right?
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B
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C
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B
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A
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B
So anyway, this case haunted the families. It haunted the Houston Police Department. And then there was yet another break. In 2007, there was a big development around the DNA. And they found that they believed that there was yet another victim of the person who raped Cheryl. But this was a living victim. So there in. In. It was, I think, June 20, 1990. A young exotic dancer left her job at a club called Gigi's. It's around 2am she went back to the place where she shared with her commercial pilot boyfriend. She goes to the bedroom to go to sleep and a guy comes out. And it's not her boyfriend. He's wearing a fishnet stocking over his face, dark shirt, dark gloves. He mockingly asks her where her boyfriend is, naming him by name. Puts a gun to her head, cocks it. And then he ties her hands behind her back with duct tape, duct tapes her eyes and mouth and puts a bag over her head and rapes her. And she thought he was wearing some kind of uniform. She thought he was a white man, mid-30s, about 6 foot. And that semen from that attack she survived matches the 1990 rape.
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C
It.
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B
Here's what's so agonizing about it. That was not tested immediately because there was a backlog in rape kits. So it took a while for that to pop up, to hit because unfortunately for a long time it would be like, oh, this is a high profile murder. We're going to put all the DNA in. Yeah, but if the guy did a bunch of rapes before that, you're not going to see that because that's all stuck in a backlog. Awful. But anyway, so it's like, okay, there's always been hope with this case because we knew there was DNA. And seemingly that has led to something big today because a man named Floyd William Parrott has been arrested and charged with capital murder in this case. And who is, who is this guy? So Floyd Parrott is, I believe, 60 years old, 64 years old, and in 1996, he was accused of sexual assault. But a grand jury no billed him. And frankly, I'm just gonna say this. I mean, I respect our jury system, but if his DNA was found, turns out to have been found related to this Henry Atkinson murder, then I think that jury probably got it wrong or at the very least, like he was guilty, even if they didn't get it wrong, even if there wasn't enough evidence. So Parrot has been arrested in Lincoln, Nebraska, as of when we're reading this or when I saw this article, he was waiting extradition to Texas. Apparently, this case has been worked on by the Harris County District Attorney's Office, Houston Police Department, Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the Texas Adjourney General Cold Case and Missing Persons Unit. They're all working on the case, and they're. They were really digging into it. And so they continued to dig into it. They said that they never stopped investigating this case, even though it took a long time. They've been working toward it. Some interesting information I was able to dig up on Parrot from the Houston Chronicle, specifically March 8, 1996. This is when Parrot was 33. And this is about six years after the murders that occurred of the Lovers Lane murders. And he was busted because when the Patton Village police chief, a guy named Carlton Buddy Watson, went to, like, renew his driver's license, it was listed as him living in Harris County. And he's like, wait a minute, I don't live there. Also, I lost my wallet or it was stolen from me about six years ago. And it turns out there was an investigation done. It turns out Parrot had gotten his hands on it, either the license or his name or some kind of information, and somehow made a phony counterfeit driver's license with Parrot's picture. But this police chief's name and driver's license. And when police rate, there was a investigation by the Texas Department of Public Safety, this guy gets raided at his West Houston apartment. Again, he's living in West Houston, at least as. As far as 1996 goes. And they find that he has all these fake United States Marshal Service badges, fake constable badges, a constable's uniform, and all this stuff that, you know, he shouldn't have that make it look like he's impersonating a police officer. And you probably are wondering, why would anyone. Why would you impersonate a police officer? And the one obvious thing is, you know, to do crimes, because if you can lull people into a sense of security and make them think that they're getting pulled over, that they're being accosted by a police officer, you're not gonna, like, run. You're not gonna, like, fight a police officer, but it's not a police officer. It's actually, you know, a serial predator. So that would be the reason, I think also it's notable given that the rape victim who survived said this person was wearing a uniform. Right? So it's a huge, huge, huge red flag. He denied apparently impersonating officers at the time. Again. But then why do you have all this stuff? You know? And why, like, why do you. Why is it your driver's license? Like, it's really, really creepy. I saw that he got divorced in 2018. That was really the only thing it said. He was unemployed in 1996. So I don't know. I think if this ends up bearing out and this DNA evidence ends up convicting him, they probably, you know, they should be looking hard at any other cases with any sort of similar modus operandi or rapes with a similar MO because this is just like classic serial predator behavior. I'm saying serial predator instead of serial killer because sometimes you have people go back and forth between killing and raping or attacking.
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C
Right?
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B
And. But, yeah, this is all very concerning. I'm very glad that there's been a huge seismic development like this. And I will be watching this closely because I've wanted to see this one get solved for a while. But how horrifying. And the last moments of these two young people's lives on a night where they should have just been enjoying, you know, being in a new relationship is just horrifying to think about. So, yeah, it's a scary case. So that's what happened in Texas.
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C
So let's move on to Pennsylvania. My source for this is triblive.com and of course, as you were reminding me before we began recording, Pennsylvania is the Keystone State.
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B
Okay.
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C
We've been to Pennsylvania together on some occasions, and often when I think of Pennsylvania, I remember a time we visited Pennsylvania to cover a particular case. And this was the first episode we produced. It wasn't the first episode we aired. And like the story I'm about to tell you, this episode involved a felony murder. And we thought, well, wouldn't it be interesting if we go to the site of where this incident happened to get an idea of what it's like? Do you remember this, Anya?
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B
Do I remember traveling to the train tracks of Reading, Pennsylvania, with you? Yes, I do.
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C
And prior to making that trip, we looked up the site on Google Maps.
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B
Oh, my gosh.
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C
On Google Earth or whatever it's called. And we got satellite images. And I remember there was a building like a hotel, and in the window of the hotel, there was a ghostly image. I don't want to be unkind, but there was a ghostly image of a person I can only describe as creepy.
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B
I mean, I Don't know if he was creepy, but he certainly had a very long white beard. He could have been a wizard.
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C
I'm pretty sure he wasn't a wizard. But do we know that he was there and he looked creepy? And isn't that interesting to see this on Google Maps? And then we go there and he was still in the window.
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B
He was still in the window.
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C
And I believe he was wearing the same clothes.
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B
I thought he was shirtless. Am I imagining that? I don't think he was creepy. I think he was just, you know, he's like the spirit of the place. He's like immovable. He's always looking out down on the streets for, you know, civilians. I like to think he's more of a guardian than a creepy.
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C
And yeah, I didn't tell you this part of the story, but then later I went on newspapers.com and I looked up some pictures from the crime scene right after the incident happened decades ago. He was still in that window. I'm lying. But yeah, that was, that was the first episode we produced about felony murder
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B
and taught us a lot about life and murder and how sometimes bad good things can come out of bad things.
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C
Yeah. And fathers and sons, fathers and sons.
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B
It's all. It's a beautiful story. I'm so proud of that story. Like, I don't, I don't, like I. It was early on so we didn't know what we were doing, but it was one of those things we were like, haha. Isn't this a strange oddity where felony murder was applied in kind of a dubious way? And then we got into the humanity of the story and we're like crying and we're like meeting people. It's just crazy. I love this.
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C
Yeah, we learned a lot about it. It's one of our earliest episodes. The first we did.
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B
Guys, nothing is ever simple. Everything is complicated.
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C
Yes, we didn't release it first, but it was the first one we did. So Felony murder in Pennsylvania. We're back, folks. We're back. This case.
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B
We're back in action.
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C
This case involves a man named Derek Lee. He was convicted of felony murder for an incident from 2014. It was a home invasion. He and a guy named Paul Durham go into somebody's house, demand money from that person and his girlfriend. Then Mr. Lee goes into another room, leaving his companion with the victims. And at one point, the male victim tries to challenge Durham and Durham shoots and kills him. And so then both men are found guilty of second degree murder, which in Pennsylvania means you get life without parole, no questions asked, you're guilty of this crime, you definitely get life without parole. And an issue with felony murder is a lot of people find the charge itself to be unfair because like, as it happened in this case, a man is found guilty of murder even though he did not literally kill somebody and wasn't even in the room when it happened. Are you okay with him getting life sentence?
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B
To me, you are going in with a gun and holding people at gunpoint and keeping them captive. You know, if he didn't want these people to die, why didn't he turn on his gun toting friend?
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C
Well, I, I disagree with you on this. I, I, I can easily imagine cases of felony murder where I believe a person should get life without parole, but I don't like the idea of it being a mandatory sentence. And I'm not sure I feel comfortable about this person, Mr. Lee, getting a mandatory life without parole. I agree with you that he committed a crime, a very serious crime, that led to a person's death. He should be punished for that. But life without parole seems a bit too much. And I can certainly tell you that anytime I've had conversations with judges, they're not a big fan of a mandatory punishment. They're not a fan of situations where if a person is found guilty, the judge has to give them a particular sentence. Judges like to have a little bit of discretion. And in a case when you have a mandatory sentence like mandatory life without parole, they don't have such discretion. They have to apply this sentence regardless of what happened.
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B
And that's a separate issue. I mean, that's about mandatory sentencing. I mean, certainly I could imagine if I, if I were an esteemed member of sitting on the bench, I would certainly not like that too, because it ties my hands. I would want to have some discretion in looking at the totality of the circumstances in order to make a decision about what is a good sentence, what's a fair sentence here. So I don't blame judges for not liking that.
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C
And the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled in favor of Mr. Lee, and they ruled that mandatory sentences of life in prison for those convicted of felony murder is now unconstitutional in the state of Pennsylvania. And Mr. Lee was supported in his arguments by a number of briefs, including a brief from the current governor of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro, arguing, number one, it doesn't seem fair to sentence a person to this extreme punishment. They didn't directly take the life. And also, it is expensive to put all these people in prison forever.
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B
Yeah. And it's also expensive to have people Running around doing crimes. I'm gonna tell you something. If somebody came into our house and were holding us at gunpoint and forcing us to do something and then one happened to shoot you while the other one was upstairs, I would want them both to suffer because it's like you both contributed to this outlandish and crazy situation where someone died. So to me, it doesn't matter who pulled the trigger in some of these situations. In other situations it does. So maybe from that perspective, I'm open to discussion about felony murder. When it should be applied, when it shouldn't be applied. That's my take.
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C
That's your hot take.
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B
Spicy onions coming out tonight.
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C
Should we move on to your next case?
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B
Sure. We're going to go to Maryland. This is a, this is a one that was actually requested by one of our wonderful listeners. So thank you to people who make a suggestion about what cases to cover. This is kind of a, a sad one. It's a bit, bit, bit interesting because this involves a young person who was actually kind of profiled for a totally different reason on a number of different levels for, you know, that we're not like. So it's like this person's appeared in the newspapers and has been profiled in different places prior to being allegedly involved in this murder. So you had Dayton James Weber, who's 27 years old and he's accused of murdering 27 year old Braedric Michael Wells. And Mr. Wells was found dead in Charlotte Hall, Maryland in like a yard. And you know, hours before there had been reports of a shooting in La Plata, Maryland. And then Dayton James Weber is accused of then having that argument, shooting this victim and then fleeing to Virginia to escape justice. And police still don't know as far as what I've seen so far. My source for this is abc is they don't know what is going on in terms of like, what happened or what was the argument about or like what, what exactly were the circumstances. But they do have two witnesses. These two witnesses were quite literally in the back seat of the car when this all went down. So pretty good witnesses. They saw what happened and Weber asked them, hey, can you help me get rid of the body? And they were like, no. And they got out of the car and flagged down police. And I just want to say, like, we see so many situations where people are like, well, I felt like I had to help the guy or I had to help get rid of the body because I was. He was there. This is what you should do if you're in A situation. Like, I mean, like, I don't feel like I have to tell our listeners that because they're smart, but like, this is exactly like, these guys did everything right. I don't know who they are, but they were like, get us out of here. Like, this is how you deal with that situation. So God bless these two poor witnesses who probably are traumatized by what they saw. And then they, they went down to Charlottesville, Virginia and they found Weber, found his car at a gas station and he was actually in a hospital there. He was trying to get help for a medical issue and they arrested him. And at one, the article indicated he was awaiting extradition to Maryland, but he's going to be charged with first degree murder, second degree murder, and possibly other things. Now here's where it's kind of interesting and a bit sad. So Weber is notable for a couple of things. He is a professional cornhole player. In 2023, ESPN did a whole profile about him about what he's doing in, in 2020 in Maryland, he was crowned the best cornhole player in the state and he competed in apparently the American Cornhole League World Championships in 2021.
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C
So I, I have to confess my ignorance here. I didn't realize you could be a professional cornhole player. So does it mean this would be like his only job? This is how he makes his living. Instead of getting up and going to the office, he gets up and transports himself to the cornhole field or whatever it is. Is it a field?
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B
I, it's like a, isn't it like kind of a board thing with like a hole in it? I don't know.
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C
I, I, I confess, I don't even know what it is other than I know the name cornhole.
- [34:16]
B
I don't know if you can earn a living at it. I don't know how it works. But I know that Weber, there were articles about him how he would like say a prayer before every shot before throwing the bag. He also talked about how he loved deer hunting and yeah, it's just kind of interesting because you're not really, you know, it, what's what I mean, another thing I guess I should note is that this guy also, when he was 16 in Charlotte Hall, Maryland, he was actually doing things around, like volleyball too. So he had like different interests. I believe he, he would do like go karting. And I think what's notable about this is that he is, is like, he is a quadruple amputee. So weber lost all four, or at least a portion of all four of his limbs after, when he was 10 months old, he got a bacterial infection that led to sepsis. So he's actually, you know, disabled, physically disabled from that and, you know, lost his legs and his arms. So I think the reason why people were profiling him is because they found that a very inspiring story of a young man overcoming really extreme adversity, more so than most of us could ever imagine, in order to compete and do things that are enjoyable in life. It was kind of a nice feel good story. So, you know, the problem is like, as you know, you and I unfortunately know there's a lot of things that, you know, can be, you know, stuff like that can kind of have, have, you know, lead to trauma or lead to problems in a person's life. And, and you know, that's not the feel good story, but it's something that can happen too. So unfortunately in this case, like, I mean, he is innocent until proven guilty. So I guess we're gonna see what happens with this. But yeah, he is accused of murdering this guy.
- [36:22]
C
And yeah, apparently according to cornholestore.com a professional cornhole player probably earns between $5,000 and $25,000 a year.
- [36:34]
B
Okay. I mean, that's not,
- [36:38]
C
that's nothing to sneeze at.
- [36:39]
B
Nothing to sneeze at.
- [36:40]
C
Yeah, but it says mo. It's very rare for a person to be able to like, do it as a full time job. Like, that's all you do. You just get up, you go to the cornhole patch, you play cornhole all day and come home and that's how you make your living. That, that's rare. I guess it does happen, but I don't even know where cornhole is. You say you throw something at a board?
- [37:05]
B
Yeah. You, like, throw a beanbag at a board and it goes into a hole, and if it goes into the hole, you get the point. He said. Yeah, he said he started playing it as local American Legion. I mean, he doesn't wear the prosthetics in competition because he feels like they kind of take away his control.
- [37:24]
C
Have you, have you ever played cornhole?
- [37:26]
B
I have, I've, I've been at a, a tailgate where we played cornhole.
- [37:30]
C
Did you make any money at it?
- [37:31]
B
No. I mean, I wasn't very good, but with this.
- [37:34]
C
So you would still qualify for the cornhole Olympics as an amateur, you preserved your amateur status?
- [37:40]
B
I, I don't know. I, I, with this, I, I, you know, it's just a sad story. I, I don't know what's going on I. People might be wondering, how does a quadruple amputee, like, shoot somebody? But it sounds like he was into deer hunting, so it's possible that he had different prosthetics fitted out. I don't know. I'm sure that all that will be gotten into at some point. But, you know, depressing, sad story where you kind of, like, want. You know, people are rooting for somebody and hoping they're doing well. But it sounds like there might have been some bad stuff going on here. But maybe there'll be more information that comes out later that indicates it's more complicated. Who knows?
- [38:13]
C
So do you suppose, like, there's a place we could go this weekend and play Cornhole? Is that something that's done? Could we, like, find a place?
- [38:21]
B
Why don't you just wander around the streets of our town yelling, cornhole? You know, maybe you'll find something. I think that might be, like, leave me in peace.
- [38:29]
C
That might be, like, a nice little date night activity for us. A very romantic thing to go out.
- [38:33]
B
You think it'd be romantic? Yeah.
- [38:36]
C
Going out, tossing the old cornhole bag. Is that what it's called?
- [38:39]
B
Sounds weird. I don't know. I'm not an expert.
- [38:42]
C
Okay, you've played the game. You haven't been paid for it. You can still qualify for the Olympics, but you've played the game, so you know so much more about it than I do.
- [38:52]
B
No offense, Kevin. I was pretty bad at it. I think somehow you would be worse. See, high hand coordination is not your strong suit, you will admit.
- [39:04]
C
See, that's pretty cocky talk.
- [39:05]
B
No, I would say.
- [39:06]
C
Let's see.
- [39:07]
B
I would kick your ass at Cornhole, and I suck at Cornhole.
- [39:10]
C
Well, let's see. Let's put it to the test. Let's go to the Courthole patch this weekend.
- [39:15]
B
We don't know where it is.
- [39:17]
C
I'm sure. I know nothing about this sport, but I feel confident we could. We're probably within driving distance.
- [39:23]
B
If I beat you, will you stop talking about it? Is that the. Is that. Is that a gentleman's wager?
- [39:30]
C
I think we have to report back to the people after I beat you.
- [39:34]
B
Oh, cocky talk.
- [39:36]
C
Is it like a Cornhole Stadium? Is it Cornhole Pass?
- [39:38]
B
Yeah, it's Cornhole Stadium. I'll give you the directions to go there. You can go explore. Go train.
- [39:46]
C
Let's see if you live up to your big cornhole talk.
- [39:50]
B
I'm sorry. I've just seen you in action, and I just feel like, you know, I've got you beat. There.
- [39:56]
C
You're making it sound like you're the Joe DiMaggio of cornhole. Yeah, that's how you see yourself.
- [40:03]
B
The nation turns its lonely eyes to me.
- [40:05]
C
So I gotta see this. I want to see you in action. I want to get myself a nice cup of sassafras tea or whatever you drink. I'm sure there's some. Something you're supposed to drink as you sit back and watch a person do cornhole,
- [40:21]
B
I think.
- [40:24]
C
What, like sassafras tea? Doesn't that sound like something you would drink while you're watching the old cornholers?
- [40:30]
B
What are you talking about? What's happening? You just like the. You think it's a funny word. You think a cornhole is a funny word, so you want to keep saying it. That's how he works, folks. That's why you're always going on about Easter bonnets. You think it sounds.
- [40:47]
C
I want to see you toss the cornhole bag.
- [40:51]
B
That just sounds weird. Let's just move on.
- [40:53]
C
So I think this weekend, let's see. Let's see who's the cornhole champion. Between us, we'll go to the patch.
- [40:59]
B
Okay. Yeah, that'll be. It's not going to happen, folks. I'm just going to warn you.
- [41:06]
C
No, I think people should, like, say, oh, I. I think Kevin can do it. Oh, I think I let. Let's see who people think.
- [41:12]
B
Are you encouraging. Are you encouraging sports betting on. On us in the cornhole contest?
- [41:18]
C
We're all friends here. We don't. We don't have to bet money.
- [41:20]
B
We don't need it.
- [41:21]
C
It could just be. You know what? I have faith in Kevin. I believe in Kevin. And then the people who are mistaken can say no. I think.
- [41:28]
B
Anya, what are the Vegas betting markets saying?
- [41:32]
C
The prediction markets?
- [41:33]
B
The prediction markets, we turn. We turn into the cornhole version of box.
- [41:41]
C
Do we have to, like, go out and get, like, special mittens or gloves to handle the cornhole bags? Do we have to get, like, uniforms? No, I can just show up in street clothes.
- [41:53]
B
We don't have. We don't have money to be splurging on cornhole uniforms on and any of this stuff.
- [41:59]
C
Well, so we just show up in street clothes and the cornhole patch, they're. They'll give us bags and we can play immediately.
- [42:07]
B
Yeah. Or they'll ask us to leave because they have no idea what we're talking about because there is no cornhole patch.
- [42:13]
C
Is that what they call it? The cornhole patch?
- [42:15]
B
I don't know what they call it and I don't know who they are. I don't know anything. I just play cornhole once at a tailgate.
- [42:22]
C
I don't know anything.
- [42:24]
B
Anya Cain, why people tune in here. My analysis. I don't know anything.
- [42:30]
C
Anya Cain, what a damning admission. You are your own worst enemy.
- [42:40]
B
Gosh, why am I. Why am I getting roasted like this over cornhole?
- [42:46]
C
I don't know anything. Anya Kate. Roasted over cornhole.
- [42:51]
B
Act like I know everything about cornhole. I don't.
- [42:54]
C
You played the game. So with that said before, Anj and I head off to the cornhole patch.
- [43:01]
B
Oh, God.
- [43:01]
C
There's another case to cover. This is a UK case and my source for this was the BBC. I always find it interesting when there are cases that come up and you know what I mean when I say this? When there are cases that come up and it sounds like the person charged with the crime has watched too many episodes of Colombo. Because in Columbo.
- [43:24]
B
Yep, I know what you mean.
- [43:25]
C
In Colombo, people always construct these really complicated alibis that then fall apart. So why don't people think about that part of it? That, yeah, even if I construct it an alibi, it's not going to work. This is a YouTuber. He's one of the. Had one of these channels where he goes on his channel and he plays video games, which I guess is a thing. And he. And he interacts with people and people love it. He's a delightful guy, but he's upset. This guy is Stephen McCullough, popular channel. He's involved with a woman named Natalie McNally. We don't know what his motive to kill her was, but we do know that he apparently had looked at some messages on her phone which showed her interacting with other men. Some of the messages she shared with him were of a sexual nature and it indicated that she might be considering breaking up with him. So what he did is he created. He recorded himself on a six. He recorded a six hour video of himself playing a game and acted like it was a live stream. So then a couple of days later he takes this recording and starts playing it. And nothing suspicious about this. Near the beginning of the recording he says, oh, you know, I usually interact with people live watching my streams, but darn the luck, I can't do that this time because of technical problems. The technical problem being obviously it was a pre recorded stream. And so while the stream is playing, he goes and he kills his girlfriend. And there's even some images from CCTV that show him to and from on this journey. And it is also determined by digital experts that the gaming stream he played that was ostensibly live was actually recorded four days earlier.
- [45:40]
B
Oh my gosh.
- [45:41]
C
And as soon as he gets back at home after committing the murder, he stops it and deletes it. And apparently believing he had covered his tracks.
- [45:54]
B
What a doofus.
- [45:56]
C
So the next day, oh, I need to go and check on my girlfriend, because I don't. She hasn't. No one's seen her or heard from her. He goes there, she's dead. He reports it to police, but he says, hey, I've got a good alibi because I was streaming. And you know what? I think this other person did it. And that person is investigated, that person has an alibi. So he tried to implicate someone else in the crime. He also does things like, I think he must have been curious about what his girlfriend's family thought of him. So at one point he secretly recorded them. He like left his phone at their residence, recording and then goes back to pick it up. About half hour or so later he. Yeah, so basically he's just come back and this.
- [46:56]
B
Where did this happen again?
- [46:57]
C
This happened in the uk.
- [46:59]
B
In, in Northern Ireland.
- [47:01]
C
It happened in Northern Ireland.
- [47:02]
B
Yeah.
- [47:03]
C
Okay.
- [47:03]
B
Okay. I was just curious.
- [47:05]
C
Okay.
- [47:06]
B
But yeah, that's horrible. And she was pregnant.
- [47:09]
C
And she was pregnant.
- [47:12]
B
I mean, I don't, I, I don't understand why people do this. I just, I don't know. It's horrible.
- [47:17]
C
You get caught, you come up with these elaborate schemes to create fake alibis and there's always things that don't quite add up, like, why would this be the time that suddenly you can't communicate with your fans live?
- [47:32]
B
Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's usually men doing this, but it's not always men doing this. Killing a romantic partner. Mostly men, but certainly some women do it too. I never understand it. I guess it's just if you are, if you are the kind of like a, well, a moderately well adjusted, you don't have to be perfect, but moderately well adjusted person who's capable of like empathy and being a decent person, doesn't feel the need to kill anybody to, you know, get on with their lives or forward their goals, you know, like there's no like barring really wild circumstances that are like self defense or whatever, you don't, you don't have to do anything. If you are, if you were just cold blooded enough where you think, like, yes, my life would be better if this person were dead and I'm gonna make that happen. I guess you're just the kind of person who thinks you're gonna get away with it because you're already, like, defective, like, in terms of what you're doing, because that's your reaction. Like, so it's like, I just feel like you don't have to explain this to people who are not going to do it, but, like, there's just a certain subset of. Of people who are like, yeah, I'm going to. I'm going to do this, and I'm going to be like. If you're like. Like, you'd have to be like. You'd have to be so stupid to do it. Especially in this day and age with this digital evidence aspect of it. Like, the police will see what you deleted. It doesn't go away. I don't understand why people don't understand this. If you want to break up with someone, just break up with them. And don't kill anybody. Just walk away. It's like a control measure, though, you know?
- [49:00]
C
Well said. Don't kill anybody. Anya Cain.
- [49:03]
B
I'm full of really good insights.
- [49:04]
C
You're very pithy. But I want to say Anya, of course, is my favorite person. And there's a special day this weekend. It's Anya's birthday on Sunday. And even though it's her birthday, she gives me the gift of being able to work with her and share a life with her. So happy birthday, Anya. I'm very grateful for you.
- [49:23]
B
Thank you so much. You're really sweet. I love you so much. Yeah, we'll just have a chill weekend. Just be chilling out.
- [49:34]
C
If that's what you want. You're. You're in. It's your birthday, so the cane train is in force all weekend. Your rules apply.
- [49:43]
B
The cane train will be left at the station or I don't want to block the train tracks. It'll be. What are the. You know, those things where they have the trains, right?
- [49:50]
C
The tracks?
- [49:50]
B
No, like, you know, like, where it's like, almost like a courtyard of trains where the trains, like, live. I don't know.
- [49:57]
C
You know the trains aren't alive, right?
- [49:59]
B
I watch Thomas the Tank Engine. I know better.
- [50:03]
C
Do you think that perhaps in between trips, in between journeys, maybe the trains gather with each other at their home and play a rousing round? Cornhole.
- [50:14]
B
Oh, This is going to be, like, a thing. It's going to be a thing. Now you're seeing me bringing it up randomly.
- [50:24]
C
Well, no, I mean, we just talked about it. People want to know.
- [50:26]
B
People want to know.
- [50:27]
C
Is Kevin the better cornholer I think people are. Maybe we can go down to the train. If you go past the train tracks late at night, listen carefully. You hear the sounds of the trains playing cornhole.
- [50:40]
B
Maybe if you go to the train tracks in Reading, you'll see us playing cornhole with that mysterious figure in the window. See? I made it come full circle.
- [50:49]
C
Yeah.
- [50:50]
B
And.
- [50:50]
C
Well, maybe for your birthday, I'll let. I'll. I'll let you win a game of cornball.
- [50:54]
B
You know, I don't need that. I. I want you to play to win. I want you to be a competitor. You know? But I'm just saying, I would be very impressed if you beat me.
- [51:03]
C
So you won't be sad?
- [51:04]
B
No.
- [51:05]
C
You won't come here and say I cheated?
- [51:07]
B
No, I. I would. No, I don't think you're gonna cheat it, Cornell. I don't even know how you would do that. But I don't know enough about the game. Maybe there's some sophisticated stratagems you can use. I don't know.
- [51:19]
C
Maybe I can ask people for some cornhole strategy. Maybe find some veteran cornholers.
- [51:24]
B
Yeah, you can do that. Go nuts. I'll leave you to it. We're not doing cornhole on my birthday. We're just relaxing.
- [51:35]
C
Yeah, we'd do it, like, the day before your birthday.
- [51:37]
B
No, we're not.
- [51:42]
C
So that. That would be the plan. And we can report back to people how we did.
- [51:46]
B
Yeah. Yeah. Let the sports betting commit. No, don't do that. Don't. Don't. Like, seriously, don't. Don't do that. I'm not. I'm not joking about that.
- [51:56]
C
And it's like golf, right? So whoever gets the least points wins.
- [51:59]
B
Yeah, that's right, Kevin.
- [52:01]
C
That's part of why I'm so confident.
- [52:02]
B
Yeah, Kevin just missed the miss. You don't want it to go in the hole. Just miss every time. You're doing great, sweetie. I said. Okay. Let's get out of here. Getting silly. All right. Thanks for listening.
- [52:20]
C
Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us@murdersheetmail.com if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.
- [52:40]
B
If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com murdersheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www. Buymeacoffee.com/murder sheet. We very much appreciate any support.
- [53:04]
C
Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the web@kevintg.com if you're looking to talk with
- [53:15]
B
other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.