The Cheat Sheet: Malaria and Malfeasance

Summary

The Murder Sheet: "The Cheat Sheet: Malaria and Malfeasance" – July 17, 2026

Episode Overview

In this engaging episode of The Murder Sheet, hosts Áine Cain (journalist) and Kevin Greenlee (attorney) deliver their weekly "Cheat Sheet," spotlighting notable recent and historical cases in their signature blend of journalistic rigor, legal analysis, and approachable banter. The episode weaves together the coverage of a mysterious Mississippi death, two tragic American cases involving very young perpetrators, and a centuries-old Italian "malaria vs. arsenic" mystery, all while interrogating the culture of speculation in true crime and online communities.

Jump to the case recaps, listen to memorable quotes, and don't miss the hosts' thoughtful warnings about the rush to assign blame or construct narratives before the facts are in.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Nolan Wells Case (Mississippi Island Tragedy)

[07:29–29:35]

• Incident Summary:
  Nolan Wells, an 18-year-old recent high school graduate, disappeared during a Fourth of July weekend trip to Mississippi's Horn Island with friends. After failing to return from the trip, his body was found near the shoreline, sparking questions about what truly happened.
• Media and Public Response:
  The case has ignited suspicion and intense speculation, in part because Nolan was the only Black person in his group and because certain details (e.g., his phone being left on a boat, absence of social media activity) struck his family as unusual.
• Family Concerns & Community Backlash:
  Nolan’s family emphasized he wouldn’t typically separate from his group or phone, adding to their suspicions. Friends offered alternative explanations, sometimes at odds with the family's perspective.
• Online Speculation:
  The case became a magnet for social media narratives. Some projected racial dynamics based solely on photos, while others accused friends of wrongdoing without evidence.
• Critical Media Literacy:
  The hosts urge caution, noting that in the early stages of any investigation, openness to possibilities is crucial but harmful speculation is not. They see parallels to moral panics and innocence “grifts.”
• Emotion & Grieving:
  Áine and Kevin emphasize understanding families’ need for answers and their emotional responses, but stress that online influencers and "grifting" around racial tension often exploit such tragedies.

Memorable Quotes:

• “There’s so many different possibilities here... A grieving family is asking a lot of questions, reasonable questions they deserve answers to.” – Kevin [07:35]
• “With this stuff, I don’t know... I think people are taking it to an extreme when it’s not even clear to me that there was a crime committed yet.” – Áine [16:24]
• “It might, just might be a tragic accident.” – Kevin [29:02]
• “We are not anywhere even near getting to the point where this is definitely a crime. So I think the dialogue on this is totally irresponsible, and I think the frankly, grifting around racial tensions has got to stop.” – Áine [25:13]

Timestamps:

• [07:29] Start of Wells case coverage
• [09:50] Racial dynamics discussed
• [12:28] Water safety and drinking discussed
• [14:23–14:59] Balancing family concerns with evidence
• [20:28] Body discovered, autopsy pending
• [21:14] Public reaction and speculation on race
• [27:04–29:35] The dangers of premature narratives

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2. Brett Scrogum Case (Indianapolis Carjacking Murder)

[29:43–36:38]

• Incident Summary:
  Brett Scrogum, a beloved 23-year-old recent business school graduate, was shot and killed in his car during an apparent carjacking in a downtown Indianapolis parking garage he and Áine have personally used.
• Perpetrator:
  Shockingly, the main suspect is a 14-year-old boy with no known prior criminal record.
• Community and Legal Response:
  There is ongoing debate about prosecutorial intent to try the 14-year-old as an adult, with hosts discussing the challenges of balancing the severity of the crime with the perpetrator’s age.
• Social Impact:
  Áine notes the increased community fear and heartache, as well as broader questions about juvenile violence and the potential roles of parenting, environment, and impulse control.

Memorable Quotes:

• “It was a 14-year-old. It was a child—I mean, a 14-year-old who’s now charged with murder...” – Áine [34:03]
• “It’s just a tragedy on every conceivable level. You have one life that is senselessly lost and another young life that is forever changed..." – Kevin [35:58]

Timestamps:

• [29:43] Scrogum case introduced
• [34:03] Suspect details—age and charges
• [36:14] Hosts reflect on culpability, parenting, and consequences

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3. Jonathan Pettigrew Case (Bronx Bus Shooting)

[36:38–43:49]

• Incident Summary:
  Jonathan Pettigrew, a 41-year-old single father of seven, was fatally shot on a city bus in the Bronx after allegedly asking a loud teen to quiet down.
• Perpetrator:
  The alleged shooter is a 15-year-old, reportedly still at large at broadcast time.
• Victim’s Background & Impact:
  Pettigrew was known as a devoted father with sole custody of his youngest child. The shooting leaves his children orphaned, and his family’s GoFundMe is linked in the episode notes.
• Media & Societal Critique:
  Áine critiques the media’s selective coverage and the “missing white woman syndrome,” noting how non-white victims often get less sustained coverage.

Memorable Quotes:

• “He was murdered because he asked a guy to be a little bit polite and civilized on the bus... It’s just unfathomable.” – Áine [41:21]
• “My heart goes out to Jonathan Pettigrew and his family, especially his kids.” – Áine [43:04]

Timestamps:

• [36:38] Pettigrew case introduced
• [41:21] Details on the altercation and aftermath
• [43:03–43:49] Discussing media attention and family impact

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4. Historical Mystery: Medici Deaths – Malaria or Murder? (Italy, 1587)

[43:49–56:36]

• Incident Summary:
  Grand Duke Francesco de’ Medici and wife Bianca Capello died weeks apart in 1587 in Tuscany, after suffering similar agonizing symptoms. For centuries, rumor swirled that Francesco’s younger brother, Ferdinando, poisoned them with arsenic to claim power, though traditional accounts pointed to malaria.
• New Scientific Evidence:
  A recent Yale–Pisa study extracted DNA from Francesco’s bones, revealing the malaria parasite, strongly indicating a natural cause rather than foul play.
• Conspiracy Theories and Narrative Bias:
  Kevin highlights how conspiracy theories persist even in the face of clear scientific evidence; Áine riffs on this tendency as emblematic of modern true crime “innocence grifting” and the bias toward dramatic explanations.

Memorable Quotes:

• “They found genetic traces of plasmodium, the parasitic protozoa responsible for malaria... DNA is certain; we have DNA taken from his bones.” – Kevin [48:57]
• “What I think is interesting about conspiracy theories... In one particular sense, you can never really totally disprove them.” – Kevin [49:57]
• “You have to accept what is likely, based on the evidence.” – Áine [54:37]

Timestamps:

• [43:49] Medici history case intro
• [48:57] DNA and malaria revelation
• [50:48] Irrefutable science vs. lingering doubt
• [54:37] Áine on evidence and common sense

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Notable Moments and Quotes

• On Social Media & Speculation:

  “People are all but accusing his friends of murder... and I don’t think that’s right.”
  – Kevin [27:48]

• On the Challenge of Admitting Facts:

  “People don’t feel morally comfortable coming to an obvious conclusion unless their hand is held and their food is chewed for them at every single turn.”
  – Áine [53:07]

• Lighthearted Historical Tangents:

  “Do you want to know the time I did that and looked totally insane? So... I really love the historical figure, St. Robert Southwell...”
  – Áine [44:52]

• Joking on Plague and Mr. Pibb:

  “Perhaps, Mr. Pibb, if you drink enough of it, maybe you don’t get malaria.” [57:25]
  – Kevin (joking—immediately rebuffed by Áine)

---

Overarching Themes

• The Dangers of Premature Narratives:
  Whether it’s the unresolved drowning of Nolan Wells or centuries-old Medici intrigue, the hosts caution against assigning blame, projecting motives, or seeking drama before facts are established.

• Grief and Humanity:
  The show repeatedly centers victims and families, noting how grief, anger, and a desire for “sense-making” can warp memory, prompt moral panics, or be exploited by media and social influencers.

• Juvenile Crime and Justice:
  Both recent American murder cases involve extremely young teenage suspects, prompting discussions of societal context, responsibility, and legal process.

• Why We Want Villains:
  From historical poison tales to viral TikTok commentary, people are drawn to dramatic, villain-centric narratives—even when ordinary tragedy or medical cause is far more likely.

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Segment Timestamps

| Topic | Start | End | |---|---|---| | Comedic/Personal Banter | 02:01 | 06:28 | | Nolan Wells case (Mississippi) | 07:29 | 29:35 | | Brett Scrogum case (Indianapolis) | 29:43 | 36:38 | | Jonathan Pettigrew case (Bronx bus) | 36:38 | 43:49 | | Medici deaths: malaria or malfeasance? (Italy) | 43:49 | 56:36 |

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Final Thoughts

Áine and Kevin’s conversation is a deft blend of the serious and the irreverent, dissecting true crime both as a media product and as a set of human tragedies. The podcast continues to balance empathy for victims, skepticism of easy answers, and good-humored engagement with the audience and each other.

For further information and show notes, visit the Murder Sheet’s main site or join their community on Patreon/Facebook.

Transcript

[Anya Cain]

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[Anya Cain]

Hi, I'm Anya and welcome to this week's Cheat Sheet. We've got a number of cases for you, including one from my home state, the Empire State, New York, and one from my new home, Indiana, the Empire

[Kevin Greenlee]

State of the Midwest.

[Anya Cain]

Content Warning this episode contains discussion of murder and violence. Anything else? Kevin? Any other bad stuff in here?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I I. No.

[Anya Cain]

Okay.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So how's your week been?

[Anya Cain]

Well, you would know. You've been here.

[Kevin Greenlee]

But also we have. Look, look around us. We have all of our dear friends, the listeners with us. They haven't been with you.

[Anya Cain]

Are you seeing the listeners?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I always, I always. I always see the listeners, they're always.

[Anya Cain]

Close your eyes.

[Kevin Greenlee]

They're always in the forefront of my mind. So how's your week been?

[Anya Cain]

It's been great. How about yours?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Sure.

[Anya Cain]

No, it's been a nightmare because we booked way too many interviews this week and our social batteries are empty. But that's okay. We. There were some great interviews, so, I mean, it was certainly worth it.

[Kevin Greenlee]

But I should also mention, as we've mentioned a couple of times, we're beefing up our premium content both on Patreon and Apple. Early episodes, ad free episodes, extra episodes. And didn't you say, Anya, that you were thinking we should get like, decoder rings for the people in premium and then we'd have like, secret codes at the end of cheat sheets.

[Anya Cain]

Little orphan on you.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Isn't that something? Drink more oval tea that you were proposing?

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, no, I was. This is definitely a real conversation, not something you're just hallucinating.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You also mentioned something about secret handshakes and.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, I think all that would be pretty cool. But, you know, I mean, I think.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think the only problem with that is that no one would be interested in it.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, that would be a bit of a. Bit of a hang up there.

[Kevin Greenlee]

That might actually deter people from.

[Anya Cain]

People might actually just get out of there. Might destroy our business, but good suggestion otherwise.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, other than that, it sounds like a little cult. Like.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, I. I feel like we wouldn't beat any cult allegations after that. Yeah, then all we need is you to go around in some, like, loose

[Kevin Greenlee]

fitting beige robes, start talking about the Kevin people.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, the. You're the Omi Samyan of the Kevin people. I mean, we already have murder sheep people. That sounds bad enough. Honestly, I'm just gonna tell you folks, I really don't feel like I'm cut out to run a cult. And here's why. Like, I don't want people in my house, like, the whole time. Like, you know what I mean? Like, go home. Like, why do I have to make decisions for everyone? I. I'm already getting stressed out thinking about it. It's like being a nightmarish camp counselor. I just don't have the patience. I can't. I can't do it. Okay?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I'm not.

[Anya Cain]

I'm not. I'm not the woman for this.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, I find what. What you say sobering and more than a little disturbing. Because you're not saying, kevin, I'm not going to be a cult leader because it's immoral or unethical. Not because of that, but just because of Logistical reasons.

[Anya Cain]

Logistical reasons in my own personality and just feeling like I don't want these people. Why are these people in robes chanting in my house all day? I just, you know, please leave so I can kind of lie on the couch and say nothing. You know, why am I. Why am I being harassed like this in my own home? I just. I'm. I'm already. I'm already disgusted.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So the immorality of what you're saying is jarring to me because I. I would never do a cult because my high ethical standards.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's why. Okay.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Otherwise, I think I can handle it.

[Anya Cain]

You know what, Kevin? I think if people were bringing you Mr. Pibb and decadent Soda selections, I would be delighted. And giving them as offerings to you and acting like you were the supreme leader, I don't think you. I don't think you'd shut it down. I think I'd have to shut it down. That's what I think. So, yeah, high ethical standards until you get some free soda out of them.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So it's interesting that for some reason totally unclear to me, we've decided to start this week's episode by just slamming each other,

[Anya Cain]

you know? Oh, and now Nick is here trying to harass me. See, I get enough harassment in my own home from this dog. This dog is a beloved figure in our household, but he's also a very bad person. So, you know, we don't need to add a cult to the mix. Right, Right. Nick and Nick would be jumping on the cult members. It would just be. I'm getting a headache thinking about it. All right, let's go into the episode. My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

[Anya Cain]

And this is the Murder Sheet.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're the Murder Sheet.

[Anya Cain]

And this is the cheat sheet. Malaria and malfeasance.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, Anya, I want to start by talking about a situation, actually an ongoing situation out of Mississippi. My main source for this is CNN. I also got a few little tidbits from people.com and even before I start talking about this, as I indicated, this is an ongoing situation, and so it's more than a little frustrating over and above the tragic elements of the case, because there's simply so much we don't know. There's so many different possibilities here. So you have a grieving family asking a lot of questions, reasonable questions they deserve answers to. You also have a Lot of other people who are following the case closely and we just don't know what happened or why. And this is the story involving a young man named Nolan Wells. On the fourth of July weekend, he's visiting with some high school friends and he goes off with them on a boat to an island, I should say. He just graduated from high school in 2025. Ocean Springs High School in Ocean Springs, which is near Biloxi. He is current, he was enrolled at Southwest Mississippi Community College. So on July 3rd he goes out to this place called Horn Island. This is a place, if you're not familiar with Mississippi, as I to my shame, I'm not. This is a place that apparently has a reputation for having like really amazing beaches and also a place where you can be isolated. It's known as a place for people to enjoy visiting with friends and family. So he goes out there on a boat with some of his friends. Later we see some pictures from this excursion where he's like just hanging out with his friends. And one thing that people notice which may or may not be relevant, I don't know. He's the only black male, the only black person in this group.

[Anya Cain]

Okay.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So they go out on this boat trip to this island. When his friends come back, Nolan is not with him. And his, his parents and family members find that kind of inherently suspicious because they feel that he is the sort of person, if he goes somewhere with friends, he's going to come back with that same group of friends. He's just not going to hang back and see what happens. And again, you need a boat to get there back. So he would need some sort of transportation. And one of Mr. Wells friends said, well what happened is he met a girl out there and he was going to hang out with her and just come back with other people. Later his parents again say no, that's out of character.

[Anya Cain]

How old was he?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Nolan is 18 years old at the time all this happened. What his family is saying is that if he goes with a group of friends, he's going to stay with that group of friends.

[Anya Cain]

I mean I hear what they're saying and obviously they're in a lot of pain here, but I'm not trying to cast out on that, but I mean I could see an 18 year old doing something out of character in that environment. If they, if they're going and being interested in someone of the opposite sex and, and it being kind of a free flowing situation. I don't know, like that seems like it could be something that could happen to me.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, Certainly. Certainly that's true. I. I think at this early stage of things, it's just important to consider all possibilities. Also, apparently some sort of video has surfaced that was taken during this trip that. That you can hear the sounds of some sort of argument.

[Anya Cain]

Is that argument involving Nolan.

[Kevin Greenlee]

At first, it was imagined that a voice in this video was Nolan having an argument. One of his friends says, no, that was me, and I was arguing with someone who was not even part of our group.

[Anya Cain]

Okay.

[Kevin Greenlee]

But at the very least, this creates the possibility there were arguments going on on this trip. We can also mention the point that there was also drinking going on on this trip. As you would imagine, a group of young people off by themselves, you would imagine that there would be some drinking going on.

[Anya Cain]

Water plus bodies of water plus young people plus drinking is a dangerous situation.

[Kevin Greenlee]

A dangerous situation. And I'll add another tidbit, which is that the waters around this island are known to be very dangerous.

[Anya Cain]

Okay. Yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So Nolan's family reports him missing on July 4th. They go and they are able, using Snapchat, they're able to track and find his phone, which apparently was put inside a boat during the party on the 4th. Again, his parents say that's unusual because why would a teenager separate himself from his phone? His friends say, no, it's not necessarily unusual for a person to put their phone in a safe place while they're doing something else. As a parent, especially in a situation like this during a party, his parents say one thing that's unusual about the phone is that this is a guy, Nolan, who would typically, like, use Snapchat quite a bit to document his daily life. And when they open up his phone, there's no videos, no Snapchats, nothing from the most recent trip he was on. Like, the last 24 hours is a blank. So they have questions about that. Again, I'm sure you would say that doesn't necessarily prove anything.

[Anya Cain]

No, it really doesn't.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It's just. It's just a data point.

[Anya Cain]

I mean, yeah, it's reasonable to ask questions. It's reasonable to look at it, but, you know, I guess I'm just like, whenever it's just a family that's grieving saying, this is different, this is different. You know, I don't know. You kind of throw alcohol in the mix. You throw people being young in the mix. I. I think people might behave in ways that might surprise their family or might be different from how their family is used to interacting with them.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I would say that everything you are saying is quite valid. I would only have a little asterisk to the point that at the beginning of an investigation, I think it's fine to have lots of questions. I think it's fine to say, this doesn't seem like the person I know. I don't think he would do this, this or this.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

At some point, as new information comes in and an investigation continues and you get some answers to those questions, at some point you have to say, this is what the data shows. You can't just be asking questions forever.

[Anya Cain]

But you know what? Like, a lot of families in that situation, never. Nothing convinces them because they already wanted to be some malfeasance, some criminal behavior, you know, and. And that is. You know, I feel like we've seen a lot of, frankly, what appear to me to be basically the hallmarks of moral panics in situations where there's a tragic accident and the family comes into it. We get pitched cases like this all the time. Yes, my loved one was on drugs and doing drugs, but I. I know someone gave them a hot shot. And it's like, you have no evidence for that, you know, and it's like, it breaks my heart for these folks because it's like, you're in such pain. I think there is a natural inclination to be like, why did you not bring my son back with you? There's like a betrayal. There's like, this, you know, how dare you? And I get that from like, an emotional standpoint. From an emotional standpoint, I get that. And from an emotional standpoint, maybe you shouldn't leave your friend behind or maybe, like, have someone stay with him or, you know, like, kind of figure it out. But when you're talking about young kids, doing the responsible thing is not always, you know, in the mix, unfortunately. We can talk to kids about, like, hey, don't leave your friend behind, you know, stale. You know, don't leave until you're all leaving together or be very on on that. But for me, it's just like, with this stuff, I don't know. I've seen a little bit of the discourse about this online, and I think people. I don't. I'm not saying the family's taking it too far because I agree with you. I think they're entitled to answers on this. I think people are taking it too far, though. I think people are taking it to an extreme when it's not even clear to me that there was a crime

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[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes, his body is ultimately recovered in water near the shore. The shoreline and the medical examiner's offices say that it's going to take some time to determine the cause of death and whether or not there was foul play. And meanwhile, as we say, the family has some questions. And there's something about seeing these pictures of one black individual with white people that is like stirring things up among some people who feel I've been in that situation. There's something inherently uncomfortable about being in that situation.

[Anya Cain]

I think people are projecting their own feelings onto this because I've also seen interviews with Nolan Wells's friends, who are also black, who say that was not the dynamic. I mean, I think sometimes people need to set aside their own feelings and just deal with things as they come up. Now, if we learn through Nolan's friends or through Nolan's communications that he was uncomfortable with that dynamic, I think that is worth talking about. But I just feel like with a lot of these things it's, it's more about what emotions they trigger in the audience rather than, you know, what was actually happening with Nolan. And frankly that de centers Nolan in his own story. This is a tragic loss regardless, and frankly, there might be culpability here that's not, ooh, murder plot. You know, if someone's plying him with alcohol, if he's getting a lot of alcohol, I mean, he's underage, all of these things. There could be. There could be whatever, liability, culpability, whatever. It's just too early to say. Or it could be a tragic accident, or it could be a murder. I don't know, maybe the body will show signs of fall play, but either way, it's a young man. It's a tragedy. I don't like to see people putting their own biases and experiences on something to the point where it's like, you know, if we're hearing from his other friends that they feel like this is unfair, then I take them more seriously than some tick tockers who makes money off of, you know, stirring stuff up.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think one thing this, this shows is the inherent risks and dangers of reporting on an investigation as it's ongoing, even as very early stages. We saw this in, in the Guthrie case as well, because the fact of the matter is, at the early stages of an investigation, if you're good, you're going to be asking and doubting everything. You're going to be in a situation that is just full of possibilities, some nefarious, some not so nefarious. Maybe a month from now, two months from now, six months from now, we'll have a better idea of what happened to this poor young man, Nolan Wells. Maybe he was a victim of murder. Maybe this was a tragic accident. We wouldn't have that information, I'm confident, before this investigation has concluded. But in reporting on it in real time, and by fanning the flames of speculation in real time, you are potentially casting doubt and blame on people who may not have done anything wrong. Maybe they did. I don't know. It's too early to tell. You have to have these questions. You have to investigate these questions. You don't have to go on YouTube and start assigning blame. It reminds me, as I say, a little bit about the Guthrie case, where at different points in that, people were all but accusing different people of murder. And I think now we're confident that most of the people who were accused of murder in that case had nothing to do with it.

[Anya Cain]

I saw. I saw, like, you know, his friends who were black said, this has nothing to do with race. Stop making it about race. One of them criticized attorney Ben Crump for coming in, and basically what he said was being predatory with these grieving parents and making it a racial thing. And that. That's not, you Know, basically, transposing a whole narrative onto this based on seeing a couple of pictures of Nolan with white kids is not helping here. Not helping to get to the truth. And then I saw tiktokers attack, attacking those two young men for saying that, oh, they're part of it. And, you know, for some of these folks, where, again, they make money and get attention and get a thrill from putting out stuff that's divisive and makes this a thing where it may not be a thing, you know. You know that if the police come out and say there's no sign of foul play, that's not going to be the end of it. They don't care about evidence. They want this to be one thing. They want this to be a lynching. That's what they want. And if it is, then we should. Everyone should go to prison for life. I mean, I. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, if this is. If someone did something to harm this. This young man who seemed like a great kid, had his life in front of him, throw the book at them, but we are not anywhere even near getting to the point where this is definitely a crime. So I think the dialogue on this is totally irresponsible. And I think the frankly grifting around racial tensions has got to stop. I see. I see people who are, like, on the, you know, white supremacist side do this a lot. They'll come in and start. Anytime there's a crime involving a black person or a minority, they start saying terrible things. And it disgusts me. There's no place in our society, in my view, like that. It's embarrassing to me that. That people feel comfortable saying that some of these things. But I also think that saying, oh, well, these white kids must be evil because they were, you know, I mean, based on what? This could be any number of things, from a complete tragedy that is nobody's fault to a tragic circumstance where there is some culpability or that, or people should have done things differently at the very least, even if there's no legal culpability, or it could be a murder, or it could be a manslaughter, or it could be anything. I don't know. We have to find out. And I. I just.

[Kevin Greenlee]

One of the most difficult things to do in life generally is to wait. And I think this is a case where we need to wait and let this investigation go on, because, as I say, there's a whole range of possibilities. Some absolutely nefarious, some just a tragic accident. I think we need to wait See how it plays out, get more information.

[Anya Cain]

Do you think people are waiting generally right now?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think in this day and age, people are not very good at waiting. People are very good at jumping to conclusions. Yeah.

[Anya Cain]

It's not. It's not critical thinking. It's not asking questions. What I'm seeing here is fully formed narratives ready to go when it's way too early. And frankly, we've. We've criticized a lot of things around what we feel is, like, innocence grift, right around cases where like, oh, this guy got convicted, but maybe he was innocent. But, like, I think having, like, a pretty high standard for commentary as far as people who've not been charged with a crime is a good thing. And you don't see that on social

[Kevin Greenlee]

media right now because, yeah, basically people are all but accusing his friends of murder. Yeah.

[Anya Cain]

And I don't think that's right now. If you want to jump on them after they get charged with murder, have at it. That's great. You know, I mean, like, Right. Because you're angry. I mean, they haven't been convicted, but, like, I think it's your right to be like, well, I mean, police charged them and it sounds pretty bad, but we're not there yet. We're not there yet. And I just. I. I don't know. People. I just. I get very disturbed when I see people wanting it to be something. Mel. Something evil. When, like, why do you want that? Like, why do you want that to be the case? Like, I just see this kind of glee in it. Of like, oh, it must be this. Yes, yes. And it's like, why do we want that?

[Kevin Greenlee]

People have a natural bias towards wanting a story to be as interesting or as tantalizing as possible. I understand that.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, I guess so. But, I mean, I feel very bad for his parents. I feel like they're in the middle of a. Of a storm right now. And I can only hope that if they get information on this case one way or another, that it can give them some level of peace of knowing what happened.

[Kevin Greenlee]

But as I say, we'll keep an eye on it.

[Anya Cain]

I feel like this stuff can be very predatory for people in their situation, and I just hope they have people around them who are, you know, helping them see through, you know, what, whatever. Because, I mean, again, like, I understand the anger. Even if no one did anything wrong, these people didn't bring your son back. You know, I think that would break your heart. It would make you furious. Their reaction is human and normal. It's the reaction on the Social media side that I'm a lot more side eyeing here.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Anya, why don't you tell us about a couple of cases you found as you were on your merry way traipsing throughout the web.

[Anya Cain]

Well, you know, I went to Indiana. I had two cases. I didn't mean to do this. I had two cases last week involving trans people, and then this week I had two kind of similar circumstance cases. I was not trying to do themes, but it just happened this way. This is a case that people have asked us to cover, and it's the case of Brett Scrogum. So who, who is that? Well, Brett was a 23 year old, a really, by all accounts, very special, beloved guy who recently graduated from the Indiana University Kelly School of Business. And just, you know, like, people had just the nicest things to say about this guy. He was a devout Christian. He was very beloved by those who knew him. He was a top 100 student at Kelly. So talented academically, and he just had a lot of interests. Just a great guy all around. So, I mean, he's got his whole life ahead of him, like Nolan did. Like, these are, you know, young men who are, you know, at the start of life. Any, any murder, any, any death is tragic. But there's something very sad to me about a young person, a person so young, it's like they haven't really been able to get started yet and losing their lives in tragic circumstances. So Brett was going to go to an event with his family on May 28, 2026, and he was pulling into an Indianapolis parking garage. This is a parking garage that actually you and I have used many times, which is disturbing. It's right next to St. John's Catholic Church, and it's near where the Indianapolis Indians minor league baseball team plays. You and I have gone to St. John's and you have all. We've also gone to Indianapolis Indians minor league baseball. I mean, like, it's a parking garage, like I'm familiar with. And this is on South Capitol Avenue in Indianapolis on the third floor. He was found shot to death inside of the. His car. And, and on that day, so Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department, the detectives started investigating. They believe it was an attempted carjacking and just a random act of violence. So not targeted to Brett specifically, but somebody saw an opportunity to get his car and attacked him and, and murdered him. So they were able to look at surveillance videos and do witness interviews to identify the suspects. I know there was a lot of consternation in the beginning because I think there was said to be like police, like some kind of police presence outside of the parking garage. And then they were like, oh, but the guy got away. But I mean, spoiler alert, they got him. On June 3, 2026, there was a suspect arrested on the west side of Indianapolis. And this also is just incredibly disturbing. It was a 14 year old. It was a, it was a child, I mean, a 14 year old who's now charged with murder. This 14 year old does not have a criminal record. This is not a situation where they seemingly were doing a lot. And they're charged with murder, felony murder and attempted robbery. The charges are now in juvenile court. Prosecutors have filed a petition apparently asking the judge to try this unnamed teenager as an adult. We don't know the 14 year old's name. That is, you know, typical for someone. Now I've seen interviews with news producers and news, you know, directors in Indianapolis and they note that if he's tried as an adult, they will name him. Right now, I don't even know his name. It's not on my case. I can't find anything about it. Or if it is on my case, I can't find it. I'll say that, but what on earth would be happening in a 14 year old's life to cause this? Now? Again, I, I say that, but at the same time, you know, when you have young, young, young people engaged in criminality, there's like a lot less, I think there's a lot more, there's a lot less impulse control, there's a lot less, you know, you know, ability to reason. That does not excuse this, to be clear. And frankly, this is so heinous that I, I understand why the prosecutor is saying let's try this kid as an adult. I mean, this is unacceptable. This guy was just going out to enjoy a day with his family and to be gunned down like that because somebody wants your car. I mean, I, I don't know. I, I, I, I think, I think that needs to be, there needs to be severe penalties for that. So trying him as adult is fine in my book. I understand if people disagree, but it's very, it's very horrible. And questions that come to my mind is, you know, I mean, to me, to me a 14 year old is a child. There's no way around that. I mean, so I guess what are the, where are the parents? Where are the parents of this kid? Now? I'm not really blaming them because I could see in certain instances hard working parents. I think sometimes people just have bad kids. I mean, like I, I think usually it's, it's, it's nurture, but sometimes nature can, you know, be the difference. So I'm not, I'm not necessarily blaming them, but like, was this kid being raised in some way to think that, like, crime is good to do and that he has, how did he get access to weapons? You know, what, like, what, what happened here? Why do you not know where your 14 year old is? Or do you think he's somewhere else? Again, not necessarily blaming the parents because we don't have enough information. I think these are reasonable questions to be asking if we're having juvenile crime though. And it's made a lot of people say like, oh, Indianapolis isn't safe and stuff like that. So, I mean, it's very much hurtful to the community. I, I think it's appalling. And my heart goes out to Brett's family. What do you think?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, it's just a tragedy on every conceivable level. You have one life that is senselessly lost and another young life that is forever changed just because of this incomprehensible moment inside this parking garage.

[Anya Cain]

But again, like, do you agree, like, what are the parents doing here now if they come out and say, oh, we were doing everything we could and da, da, da, da, maybe they're fine. But like, I think there needs to be like, what is going on here as far as, you know, why does your 14 year old have a gun and apparently a plan to carjack somebody?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, I have a lot of questions.

[Anya Cain]

14 year olds running around like, I don't know, shoplifting or something. Like something nonviolent. Like, again, that's a problem and that's bad and that's concerning. But I could see how a rebellious kid is, you know, doing something that they shouldn't be doing. But I mean, this is just cold bl flooded. So, I mean, on a practical level, I hope they try them as an adult so we can see the documents as well. Maybe there's some mitigating things that we're not aware of. So that is the story of in Indianapolis. Now let's go to New York. And this is something that occurred my. Oh, by the way, my sources for the Last one were Fox 59. They've done some excellent reporting on this case for New York. The New York Times was a source. They did some great reporting on this Bronx News 12 also did. And I also am including in our show notes a gofundme for Jonathan Pettigrew's children for reasons that will become Clear as we talk about this case. June 8, 2026, the Bronx, New York. So fun. Anya fact, my mom is a proud former Bronx denizen. She grew up in the Bronx, she'll tell you, not the nice part of the Bronx, like Mauricania, that's where she's from. She like grew up near Yankee Stadium. They moved around a bit, but she was in the Bronx like in the 70s and 80s back when it was a lot more dangerous. I always have a soft spot for the Bronx because of this, because she grew up there. And it often is labeled as the, the dangerous and scary borough, you know, the burrow that could not, you know, be tamed almost. And, but I think I, you know, it's, it definitely has that side of it, but it's also a lot of great people there, you know, like my mom. So one of those people is a 41 year old, Jonathan Pettigrew. Okay, so he was on a city bus. And Mr. Pettigrew just sounds like a great guy. I mean he had seven children, right? And he was the single father with sole custody of his youngest child, a seven year old daughter. He's raising her by himself. By all accounts, very caring, very devoted father, will do anything for his kids, is just doting on his daughter and he's working hard in catering in order to earn a living to support her. And he lived in the Soundview neighborhood. So you know, he's on this bus. And what witnesses say at this point is that there is some kind of dispute between him and a young man on the bus, apparently. Although I don't, I mean we'd have to. This hasn't gotten to trial. So this is just initial media reports. Pettigrew complained that this other person was talking on his phone too loudly on the bus. And I just want to say I am 100% with Mr. Pettigrew. I find it the most ill bred and obnoxious thing in the world when people are just have their phone on speaker or blasting or have like a tablet with a movie on in public. It's like, were you raised by wolves? Like, what are you doing? Headphones exist and they're not particularly expensive. Go purchase them. I don't want to hear your weird conversation or some crappy movie you're watching. So this grind, I mean grinds my gears to, to use the, the viper pit parlance. But I mean I'm with him on this. But the problem is unfortunately like there the people who are, you know, more likely to be antisocial like that in a minor way, like you kind of like, they might punch me in the face over this. But in this case it was even worse because this person was not just rude, they were also violent. And near the intersection of East Tremont Avenue and White Plains Road in the Bronxdale neighborhood at about 2:30pm that day, the guy pulls out a gun and shoots Mr. Pettigrew in the abdomen. He's rushed to the hospital, but he dies. So he was murdered because he asked a guy to, you know, be a little bit polite and civilized on, on the bus. I mean it, it just unfathomable, it's disgusting. And now his 7 year old daughter is an orphan. I mean she lost her father, she lost the, the parent who had sole custody of her. Like all of his children have lost their father. This is just a guy like doing his job, going back home, wants a little bit of like decorum on the bus. All the guy had to do, like, I mean, he didn't have to agree with him. He could just be like, oh whatever, I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do. Like you, like, like pulling out a gun is just such a. Anyways, investigators say that they're looking for a 15 year old suspect. Okay, so you have another child who's either has something seriously wrong with them or has just been raised so poorly that they think that a good response to a conflict, like someone asking you to, you know, not be yelling on your phone or not be blasting your phone or whatever, is to shoot a father of seven in cold blood. They were the same. Investigators are saying this 15 year old was responsible. And they said the media reports were like, they plan to arrest him as soon as possible. I've not seen any media reports indicating that this kid has been arrested. Now unfortunately you, this is where the media kind of can fall apart. And I, again, I, I give the New York Times credit. They covered this Bronx News 12, but sometimes they don't stay on these cases if they're not like the big splashy cases that involve, you know, in this case the, the victim is, is a black man. And unfortunately it is very true that the media tends to focus more on white women. Like that's the number one, like, you know, they have a whole name for it. It's called missing White woman syndrome. I'm not saying that white women don't deserve to have their cases be talked about, but I am saying that when you're exclusively covering people from that demographic, other people get ignored. And, and that's not right. Okay. This is important. This man meant a lot to his family. This shouldn't be happening. And frankly, it says something very troubling where a 15 year old is the one accused of this. So it's an important case.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Absolutely.

[Anya Cain]

So I don't know if someone has been arrested and there's just been no media coverage or if there's no arrest. I have to imagine it's no arrest. I would think there'd be at least something, but I don't know, it's very disturbing. My heart goes out to Jonathan Pettigrew and his family, especially his kids. And you know, I, I just, I included the Gofundme in here because, I mean, the, these, I mean, this is just such a horrible thing for their family. And if, if you, you know, if, if you have any, I guess, donation that you would want to give, they need it. And so the link's in our show notes. It's very sad.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, my last case, Anya comes from Italy and My source is CNN.com and this is the kind of case that I think is great to do because first of all, Italy, what a great country. We can all just join hands and pretend that we're all visiting Italy together. Have you ever been to Italy?

[Anya Cain]

Oh, no, but I wish, yeah, I,

[Kevin Greenlee]

I would come with me now to Italy.

[Anya Cain]

Let's go. Woo.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So this is, this, this is a good thing. And also this is the case. Yes, it does involve people dying, but it happened so long ago. We don't have to be really, really sad.

[Anya Cain]

Actually, as a history major, I definitely, like, totally came to love certain historical figures and when they inevitably died, I was very sad. So I might cry.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You might cry over this? Yeah, I, these people would have been dead a long time ago regardless. But I'm.

[Anya Cain]

They were so young.

[Kevin Greenlee]

They had so much life ahead of them.

[Anya Cain]

No, do you want to know the time? I did that and I looked totally insane. So. So I really love the historical figure, St. Robert Southwell. He was a English Catholic priest who was brutally executed for being a Catholic priest for being a Jesuit in the 1590s when England was persecuting Catholics. And Yeah, like, as they did throughout much of their history after they broke from the Catholic Church. So he. When I read about his fate, which was horrible, like drawn and quartered horrible, I remember I was like crying in the library in college and I think someone was like, are you okay? I was like, yeah, I'm just, I'm fine. I'm not a basket case or anything.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, I mean, if any of our dear Friends, the listeners have wept over the deaths of people, historical figures. Please let us know. Maybe I'm just unusually cold and callous and just. Just a shell of a man, because I don't recall ever breaking down in tears or the death of a historical.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, I've done that a lot.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah.

[Anya Cain]

I don't know. I don't get a lot going on socially.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Maybe that's why you need to get out more.

[Anya Cain]

Need to get out more, live in the real world.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So go with me now not only to Italy, but to the year 1587. So this is a long time ago.

[Anya Cain]

I'm excited. Let's not get. Let's not get, like, burned as witches, though.

[Kevin Greenlee]

See, you don't want to be too safe. You want to live a little bit on the. Otherwise, you're not living life. Take a risk.

[Anya Cain]

I don't want to be ahistorical, too, because I know that the witch trials were at different times in history, and I don't even know if they were that much of a thing in Italy, so. Sorry.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So what you're saying is you've just embarrassed yourself.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, I have.

[Kevin Greenlee]

What, a black mark on the program? Maybe we should just end these cheat sheets after that display. But let's join with me now, hand in hand, and let's stroll back to 1587, when Grand Duke Francesco de Medici and his wife Bianca Capello, they die. And they die within a very short time frame of each other, and they die in agony. Oof. Yeah, that's not good. No, but it's a long time ago. So people at the time think, well, it was probably malaria, because they had symptoms of malaria, so. Probably malaria. But then some people say, well, you know, Francesco's younger brother, Ferdinando, maybe he poisoned them with arsenic in order to guarantee his succession to the throne. So even back then, we were having conspiracy theories. Wow. There's been a lot of speculation over this for centuries. Literally centuries of people just arguing about it. And there was a study done in 2006 where they did some toxicological stuff and they said, well, no, these people died of arsenic. And other people said, no, it was malaria.

[Anya Cain]

There was something in the wine that night. The stars were bright. Fernando or Ferdinando. Sorry, just having some ABBA fun over here.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah. But now. Now there is a new study being done, a joint study conducted by Yale and the University of Pisa in Tuscany. They actually extracted DNA from the remains of Francesco. Francesco.

[Anya Cain]

Say it like that.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I'm not good with names.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. Maybe we should shut down the cheat

[Kevin Greenlee]

sheet and they Found. I'm going to read from the article here, and I'm going to read from it poorly, because there's lots of words here of more than one syllable, which

[Anya Cain]

is always, what did they say about Francesca?

[Kevin Greenlee]

It's always a challenge to me with these big words. They found genetic traces of plasmodium, the parasitic protozoa responsible for malaria, in samples of bone material from Francesco's rips. So they say DNA is certain. We have DNA taken from his bones, which show, yes, yes, he definitely had malaria. And I suppose if he dies of malaria and his wife has the exact same symptoms and she dies just a couple hours after him, or they say it was within hours, probably safe to assume she has malaria, too. Case closed. But what I think is interesting about conspiracy theories and alternate theories of different things is that in one particular sense, you can never really totally disprove them, because let's say, Anya, I am able to prove to you, Anya Cain, beyond all shadow of a doubt, that Lee Harvey Oswald shot President Kennedy and that he had no associations with anyone else. He was acting totally by himself. Let's say I prove that. That still does not disprove the idea that there was a conspiracy to kill him that day, because for all we know, maybe there was another conspiracy and there was another shooter in another building and he dismissed. So there's always possibilities like that, people grasping for straws. And so now some people are clinging to the arsenic theory and say, well, yes, science is science. We can't argue with the fact that he had malaria. But you know what? He could have been poisoned, too.

[Anya Cain]

Why do these Italians want him to be poisoned? Or is it not the Italians? Is it people from the outside are like, francesco was murdered?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think it kind of goes back to what I was saying in our conversation about Nolan Wells. I think a lot of people understandably, have a bias towards the most interesting possible story.

[Anya Cain]

I'm Kiana, and I leveled up my business with Shopify. Once I figured out that Shopify was a thing, I never turned back. I can create a site with my eyes closed. Shopify thinks ahead of us, you know, and it thinks about the customer more than anything. Every day I'm thinking about some other new business, but Shopify, Shopify is doing it to me because it's so easy to use. It's like, I can't stop. I'm addicted. Start your free [e-mail].

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[Anya Cain]

And I guess if you cast Ferdinando as some kind of evil villain, then, you know, it's important for him to have murdered his brother rather than his brother.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, also, just in terms of what makes the most interesting story. What's most interesting? A guy gets sick of a preventable disease and dies or a guy is secretly poisoned by an evil relative. I find the poisoning story a lot more interesting.

[Anya Cain]

Yes, certainly. Yeah, yeah. Than just a natural death. But, you know, I mean, but like, but like.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So, yeah, it is theoretically possible he had malaria and was poisoned and was poisoned, but probably not if the, if

[Anya Cain]

the symptoms he's suffering from are malaria symptoms. It seems very logical to. And, and this is why I think people, I think people have left behind common sense. Like, not everybody, not you guys. You have common sense because you're listening to the murder sheet. Obviously a lot of common sense.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I mean, what if the arsenic was laced with malaria?

[Anya Cain]

What if the mosquitoes po. Arsenic, you know, like, but, like, but in all seriousness, I think I see this throughout True crime where there, it's like, you know, like people don't feel morally comfortable coming to an obvious conclusion unless their hand is held and their food is chewed for them at every single turn. And it's like, you know, it's like the, the, you know, like, okay, this, this, this suspect was seen here and then here, and the murder occurred in between here. But it's like, you know, people are taking, I don't know, some of this stuff to a point where I really feel like the amount of information we have now with everything, it's made us stupider because it's like, you know, we expect to be bombarded on every front with a ton of information. We're bad at filtering out what's important and what's not important. But we're also bad at just like coming to obvious conclusions, you know, and, and this is an obvious conclusion. He died of malaria symptoms. He had malaria. You know, why do you need Ferdinando to be the bad guy? Hashtag free for dinando. Okay? He didn't do anything wrong. Okay? I'm not trying to do innocence fraud for an old timey Medici guy, but I will if I have to, you know, I mean, I, I, I don't know. I, I, it's Sometimes you, like, sometimes you're never going to be able to totally rule out something like poisoning in this case, but you have to accept, like, what is likely, based on the evidence.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I'll read you something else from this, this guy Francesco, he was known to travel to a part of Tuscany that was known for malaria.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, he's doing one of his famous mosquito baths.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Great. And one of his physicians said, don't do that.

[Anya Cain]

Don't do it.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Don't go there. Especially in autumn, because that's a time when you're most likely to get malaria. There's. But he went anyway.

[Anya Cain]

Why'd he do it?

[Kevin Greenlee]

And a couple of days later, he starts showing signs of malaria. I wonder what happened.

[Anya Cain]

Why did he do it? Did he. Why was he obsessed with this place?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I'm sure Tuscany is lovely.

[Anya Cain]

I'm sure it is. But, but nonetheless, is there any place

[Kevin Greenlee]

that you would go, visit, even if doing so you were risking your life?

[Anya Cain]

I, I mean, I, like if people were telling me, anya, if you go to, I don't know, Peru, Indiana, you're gonna get malaria and probably die, I'd be like, okay, I'm gonna put off my visit. Love Peru, Indiana. Love the circus, love the Cole Porter Fest. But I can, like, maybe go at a different time where malaria is not raging.

[Kevin Greenlee]

If, for instance, someone comes to me and says, kevin, here's a ticket, all expense paid, trip to the Mr. Pibb factory. You go there, you can see exactly how Mr. Pibb is made. You can drink all the Mr. Pibb you want. And then I find out there's a malaria outbreak there. I'd probably still go. I mean, it's, it's Mr. Pibb.

[Anya Cain]

You're just like Francesco. Is that right?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I'm just like a de Medici.

[Anya Cain]

You're, you're, you're the decadence of you.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I mean, I get malaria, give it to you, we both die within hours. And then people would say, well, one of their rivals, maybe Temujin Kinsuit, must have given them arsenic. But no, it would just be me gallivanting off to the Mr. Pibb factory.

[Anya Cain]

I can tell you malaria was one of the top, top situations, causing the death of the original squad of Jamestown settlers. It was malaria. It was. They got there in April, and then over the summer, the way the island was, was kind of in the James River. Salt water would pool closer and close. So they'd be drinking. They're drink, they're dying of Salt poisoning, drinking salt water and getting dysentery and diarrhea deaths all around.

[Kevin Greenlee]

All of that's very true. And I should hasten to add, just to make completely clear, my malaria. Mr. Pibb. Hypothetical was just a hypothetical. No connection between Pib and malaria. In fact, I would go so far to say is that perhaps, Mr. Pibb, if you drink enough of it, maybe you don't get malaria.

[Anya Cain]

No, no, no, don't say that.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Let me say this. I have not had malaria this year, and this year, I've had a lot of. Mr. Pip, is that a coincidence? I don't think so.

[Anya Cain]

That is a coincidence. You're totally insane.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think I've also lost £60 this year, and I'm drinking. Mr. Pip, is that a coincidence?

[Anya Cain]

No, no, no, no. We're not doing that. We're not doing any of that. We're not doing. Yeah, the last time some Indiana guy was losing weight, having, eating, consuming an improbable end. Well, so we're not going with that.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, I don't have those concerns or issues.

[Anya Cain]

I know you don't, but we're not doing this. We're not doing this. I'm not getting busted by the, like, whatever, the FDC or something, because you're putting out crazy advertising. He's joking, folks. It's not. It's not. Don't you want to have Mr. Pibb? Fine, but it's not going to protect you from malaria.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It might.

[Anya Cain]

I think. I think. You know, I. This whole thing is shocking. I just want to know, why do you guys hate for Ferdinando? What's happening? I. I don't. I feel like probably no people from Italy listen to this show, but if you can tell us what's the beef. Okay, why do we want Ferdinando to be a bad guy?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Suddenly you're Clara Peller over there. Who? I think. You don't know who Clara Peller is?

[Anya Cain]

No.

[Kevin Greenlee]

She is this older lady who, in the mid-80s, was hired to do commercials where she would, like, look at a hamburger bunny that had a small hamburger patty on and say, where is the beef? Because she's saying, oh, sounds more like

[Anya Cain]

you, frankly, scrutinizing hamburgers.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Oh, they don't make hamburgers the way they used to. If I want a big hamburger, I need to go to Wendy's.

[Anya Cain]

Nick's just, like, behind you, sitting in your chair, hovering over you like a little demon. Nick, why are you such a hobgoblin? What are you doing?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, he came because I started talking about Mr. Pibb. And he knows when I start talking about Mr. Pibbit, everybody's mood improves. People start having fun. People are like running barefoot through the grass. It's just a happy time. Mr. Pibb is the drink of summer.

[Anya Cain]

I think he wants to eat you.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, we probably should have wrapped.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, my goodness. I think he needs a walk. All right, well, was there anything else we wanted to talk about?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I don't think so.

[Anya Cain]

Thank you guys all so much for listening. We really appreciate it.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email [e-mail] if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[Anya Cain]

If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com/murder sheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www.buymeacoffee.com murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the [e-mail] if you're looking to talk with

[Anya Cain]

other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.