The Cheat Sheet: Maui and Millions

Summary

Podcast Summary: Murder Sheet – "The Cheat Sheet: Maui and Millions"

Release Date: July 18, 2025
Host/Authors: Áine Cain (Journalist) and Kevin Greenlee (Attorney)

---

1. Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of Murder Sheet, hosts Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee navigate through a series of compelling true crime stories, focusing primarily on advancements in prosecuting domestic violence cases in Maui, a disturbing honor killing attempt in Washington, and a significant wrongful conviction in Los Angeles. The episode delves deep into these cases, providing insightful analysis and drawing connections between them.

---

2. Maui's Initiative to Combat Domestic Violence and Strangulation Cases

Timestamp: [04:10] – [12:22]

The episode opens with a discussion about the proactive measures being taken in Maui, Hawaii, to address the alarming link between domestic violence and subsequent murders. Prosecutor Andrew Martin recognizes that individuals who experience strangulation in domestic violence scenarios are at a heightened risk of being killed by their abusers. To address this, Martin aims to:

• Hire a Forensic Nurse: Available to collect physical evidence from strangulation victims promptly, even if the victim decides not to prosecute.

• Increase Bail for Strangulation Charges: Raising bail amounts from the usual $5,000–$10,000 to $50,000 to reflect the seriousness of the offense.

• Enhance Training for Medical Professionals: Equipping nurses and other first responders with the skills to identify subtle signs of strangulation, such as burst capillaries, which are often invisible to the untrained eye.

Notable Quote:

Kevin Greenlee [09:41]: "The Maui county prosecutor is realizing that when a person in a domestic violence situation ends up being strangled or choked by their abuser, they are then at a much, much higher risk of being killed by them later."

Áine Cain draws parallels between Maui's efforts and the case of Leslie Hope Houston in Indiana, where her daughter Megan advocates for stronger laws against strangulation, underscoring the critical nature of these initiatives.

---

3. Attempted Honor Killing in Lacey, Washington

Timestamp: [12:22] – [31:57]

Transitioning from Maui, the hosts examine a harrowing case from Thurston County, Lacey, Washington, involving parents Issan and Zara Ali and their 17-year-old daughter. The incident, which took place on October 18, 2024, involved an alleged attempt by the parents to force their daughter into an arranged marriage, culminating in a violent attack intended as an "honor killing."

Key Points:

• Definition and Context: Honor killings are murders carried out to "restore" a family's honor, often targeting women who defy cultural or familial expectations.

• Incident Details: Video footage shows Issan Ali attacking his daughter outside Timberline High School, leading to public horror as bystanders realize the gravity of the situation.

• Legal Proceedings: The trial is ongoing, with questions surrounding whether the attack was a premeditated honor killing or an extreme manifestation of domestic abuse.

Notable Quote:

Áine Cain [16:02]: "She is accused of essentially attacking her daughter in what authorities are describing as an attempt at an honor killing. This is just horrifying."

The hosts emphasize the importance of not conflating honor killings with any specific cultural or ethnic group, noting that such acts can occur within diverse societies.

---

4. Wrongful Conviction and Exoneration of Alexander Torres in Los Angeles

Timestamp: [31:10] – [59:16]

One of the most poignant segments of the episode covers the wrongful conviction and subsequent exoneration of Alexander Torres, who spent two decades in prison for a murder he did not commit.

Case Highlights:

• Initial Conviction: Torres was arrested in 2001 for the shooting death of Martin Gutron. The prosecution's case was flawed, with evidence mishandling and witness testimonies proving unreliable.

• Evidence of Innocence:

  • Alibi Confirmation: Multiple witnesses placed Torres at a birthday party during the time of the murder.
  • Physical Incompatibility: Torres was wearing a cast due to a broken hand, making it physically challenging to commit the crime as alleged.
  • Confession: Another individual confessed to fulfilling the murder, further undermining the prosecution's case.

• Exoneration and Settlement: After extensive advocacy and legal battles, Torres was officially exonerated and received a $14 million settlement from the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors.

Notable Quotes:

Kevin Greenlee [31:10]: "The fact that the prosecutor apologized to the man and sought an official finding that he was factually innocent is something I find very, very compelling."

Áine Cain [29:28]: "It's pretty compelling based on what you're saying... He was wearing a cast that would make it hard to shoot."

The discussion underscores the profound personal and societal impacts of wrongful convictions, emphasizing the irreversible loss experienced by individuals like Torres.

---

5. Frank Sinatra’s Involvement and International Intrigue

Timestamp: [31:57] – [58:56]

In a surprising twist, the hosts delve into a complex narrative involving Frank Sinatra and Dan Mitrione, an FBI agent implicated in corruption and alleged human rights abuses in South America.

Narrative Overview:

• Dan Mitrione's Trajectory:

  • Career: Mitrione served as a former federal investigator from Indiana who was involved in combating drug trafficking.
  • Corruption: He accepted bribes and facilitated cocaine shipments from Kokomo, Indiana, to South Florida.
  • International Operations: Mitrione was involved in training police officers in Uruguay, with allegations of teaching torture techniques.
  • Capture and Death: Kidnapped by the Tupamaros, a Marxist-Leninist group, Mitrione was ultimately murdered in 1970.

• Frank Sinatra’s Response:

  • Upon learning of Mitrione's fate, Sinatra organized a benefit concert to support Mitrione's family, raising substantial funds and showcasing his personal commitment to justice and empathy.

Notable Exchange:

Kevin Greenlee [43:35]: "Frank Sinatra, as we were discussing earlier, a great man, an inspiration to everybody."

Áine Cain [47:48]: "Frank Sinatra said this of Mitrione. He said, 'I never met Richmond's son, Dan Mitrione, yet he was my brother, as all of us in America are brothers.'"

This segment highlights the intersection of pop culture and true crime, illustrating how influential figures like Sinatra can impact and bring attention to complex criminal narratives.

---

6. Conclusion and Reflections

Timestamp: [58:56] – [59:16]

As the episode wraps up, Áine and Kevin reflect on the emotional weight of covering true crime stories, acknowledging the personal toll and the necessity of security measures like SimpliSafe to protect themselves from potential backlash.

Final Thoughts:

• Impact of True Crime Reporting: Discussing real-life tragedies and miscarriages of justice can lead to emotional strain and external threats, emphasizing the importance of safety and support systems.

• Support for Veterans: Both hosts express support for companies and causes that aid veterans, linking back to their discussions on trauma and resilience.

Notable Quote:

Kevin Greenlee [59:15]: "One of the reasons is that you're talking about cases that people have a real emotional involvement in."

---

Quotes Summary

• Kevin Greenlee:
  "The Maui county prosecutor is realizing that when a person in a domestic violence situation ends up being strangled or choked by their abuser, they are then at a much, much higher risk of being killed by them later." [09:41]
  "The fact that the prosecutor apologized to the man and sought an official finding that he was factually innocent is something I find very, very compelling." [31:10]
  "Frank Sinatra, as we were discussing earlier, a great man, an inspiration to everybody." [43:35]

• Áine Cain:
  "She is accused of essentially attacking her daughter in what authorities are describing as an attempt at an honor killing. This is just horrifying." [16:02]
  "It's pretty compelling based on what you're saying... He was wearing a cast that would make it hard to shoot." [29:28]
  "Frank Sinatra said this of Mitrione. He said, 'I never met Richmond's son, Dan Mitrione, yet he was my brother, as all of us in America are brothers.'" [47:48]

---

Conclusion

In "The Cheat Sheet: Maui and Millions," Murder Sheet delivers an in-depth exploration of critical true crime issues, from innovative legal strategies in Hawaii to the devastating effects of wrongful convictions and the unexpected intertwining of cultural icons like Frank Sinatra in international criminal narratives. Through meticulous reporting and thoughtful analysis, Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of these complex cases, highlighting both systemic challenges and the human stories at their core.

Transcript

[Anya Cain]

This summer, try something new and fun. Try our wonderful sponsor, Hometown Hero. This is a company that is all about having fun and giving back. Hometown Hero sells premium hemp products all the while supporting veterans. Founder Lucas Gilke, a US Veteran himself, saw firsthand how trauma can impact our veterans, so a portion of Hometown Hero's profits go toward organizations that support veterans.

[Kevin Greenlee]

They've got an enormous and diverse selection. Gummies, drink mixes, infused chocolates. Hometown Hero also has some wonderful calming CBD treats for your puppy as well as balanced THC and CBD gummies in delicious flavors like strawberry, mango and pineapple. Something for everyone. Regardless of your experience with thc, Hometown.

[Anya Cain]

Hero focuses on quality first and foremost. Their hemp is grown in Texas so you know exactly what you're getting with your inhalables and tinctures. The products are all made at a GMP certified facility and third party lab tested to maintain their strict standards. Most of their products feature live Rosin which which is a cannabis concentrate extracted using only heat and pressure. That's basically the cold pressed juice of the cannabis world. Super pure, no solvents. Order today and get your products delivered in discreet packaging straight to your door.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Reclaim your evening visit hometownhero.com and use code msheet to take 20% off your first purchase. That's hometownhero.com code msheet for 20% off your first purchase. Having a hormonal imbalance can make you feel like you've landed in a baffling mystery story, only one with no ending.

[Anya Cain]

You feel bad, you feel off, and it feels like there's nothing you can do to fix it. It's unbelievably frustrating.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, our sponsor Happy Mammoth is on the case. They are a natural wellness brand that can help you maintain your own optimal hormone levels. They focus on products that lead to hormonal happiness as well as ones that improve your gut health.

[Anya Cain]

See, we all encounter hormone disruptors throughout the day, in our food, in the air and even in skincare products. All of that saps away at our quality of life. Frankly. Fight back by taking Happy Mammoth's quick two minute quiz. They'll send you tailor made solutions and recommendations about products that can help you. I personally love taking their Hormone Harmony supplements which are for women at all stages of life. Ever since I started taking them, I feel my gut health and random cravings have really improved.

[Kevin Greenlee]

For women who are in menopause or perimenopause, those Hormone Harmony supplements can help reduce mild mood swings and hot flashes, give you more energy and help you.

[Anya Cain]

Get to sleep for limited time, you can get 15% off your entire first order. At Happy Mammoth.com, just use the code MSHEET at checkout. That's HappyMammoth.com and use the code MSHEET for 15% off today.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Summer is getting hot. If you're like us, your wardrobe is stocked full of sweaters for the cold months. You, you need a refresh to get some lightweight, breathable pieces to beat the heat. Time to go shopping at Quint's.

[Anya Cain]

Quint's is a wonderful sponsor of ours. They sell all kinds of luxury items at a fraction of the price of their competitors. Order today and get your pieces fast. They'll have you looking awesome. For the summer of 2025, I got.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Their 100% European linen utilities shirt in martini olive. It's an elevated version of the kind of shirts I'm used to wearing, only it feels better. Made with a more luxurious and comfortable fabric, the linen is lightweight and perfect for the hot summer months. Best of all, Anya thinks I look cute in it. And she assures me that that is the most important thing.

[Anya Cain]

It is, and he does. All Quince items are going to be 50% to 80% less costly than those of their competitors. Half the price. You're getting a great deal. Plus, Murder Sheet listeners are going to get an even more special bonus. Give your summer closet an upgrade with quinn's. Go to quince.commsheet for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E.commsheet to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.commsheet content warning this episode contains discussion of domestic abuse and murder. So today on the Cheat Sheet we actually have a very interesting set of locations here.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So we're doing very eclectic selection.

[Anya Cain]

It's more on like the west coast slash even beyond that. So it's Washington and California and then Hawaii. So we're going even off the mainland. And then I have one. It's a journey that took me from Brazil to Uruguay to Florida to Kokomo in Richmond, Indiana.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And you're exhausted. And this, it doesn't even. It's not even a current case. Usually we talk about current cases. This is just something old you saw.

[Anya Cain]

I just needed to tell you guys about this because that's what I do. I want to talk about this. I want to unpack it with you.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And in a small way, it involves Frank Sinatra.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, well, in your mind, he's probably the star of the whole piece, even though he is.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Which is the only reason why I permitted it to be.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, you permitted it. Oh, my goodness. Oh, whatever. My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

[Anya Cain]

And this is the Murder Sheet.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're the Murder Sheet, and this is the cheat sheet.

[Anya Cain]

Maui and millions.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It. Well, I believe we are going to start way, way out in the Pacific Ocean in Hawaii. More specifically in the county of Maui, which is also its own island.

[Anya Cain]

Yes, it is.

[Kevin Greenlee]

See, we're getting in a little geography here.

[Anya Cain]

It's a lovely, lovely place. Unfortunately, it was really badly affected by some horrible, horrible wildfires a number of years ago, but just a lovely place. Great people.

[Kevin Greenlee]

As I'm sure you're all aware, there's a lot of great things to love about Hawaii. I think one of my favorite things about Hawaii is they have a really great journalism there. Some great local journalism being done by Civil Beat.

[Anya Cain]

We are proud subscribers of the Civil Beat. It's definitely worth every penny.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes, they do great journalism. And this story we're going to be discussing comes from the Civil Beat. And as usual, we will be including the link to. In the show notes. And I think this is an interesting story I'm going to be telling you about, because prosecutors may be one of the rare types of attorneys who actively try to put themselves out of business. Because the Maui county prosecutor is realizing he's looking at studies and stuff, and he's looking at cases, and he is realizing that when a person in a domestic violence situation ends up being strangled or choked by their abuser, they are then at a much, much higher risk of being killed by them later. And so what this prosecutor wants to do is domestic violence, for a variety of reasons, can be difficult to prosecute. And it can also be difficult to prosecute when it's a strangulation case, because maybe there's no marks and no real ev of it. So he wants to figure out ways to make it easier to prosecute strangulation cases, take them a lot more seriously, and maybe by doing so, end up saving some lives. And some of this, I believe, was sparked by. There was a case last October where a woman, Janurkara Sturgeon. I apologize if I mispronounced that name. She reported being strangled by her partner, and then her partner. Subsequently, about a few months later, he murdered her. He stabbed her to death. And that sort of Thing is just far too common. And there's another strangulation case that also happened in Maui recently. And one of the reasons why it can be difficult to prosecute is oftentimes people in those situations are afraid to prosecute their abusers. They think, well, I'll be safer, I won't make him mad if I don't file a report. And so what this prosecutor wants to do, and his name is Andrew Martin, is he wants to hire a full time forensic nurse who would be available to collect physical evidence from these strangulation victims soon after their injuries. And he wants to be able to collect some of this evidence even if the victim ends up not wanting to prosecute. And the hope, as I say, is that if we get some of these abusers early enough before their behavior escalates, we would have a net decrease in murders. What do you think?

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, I think, I think her name is Janine Cara. And just, just as a note, I think that's pronounced Janine Cara. But I think this actually reminds me a lot of a case we worked on here in Indiana, which is the case of Leslie Hope Houston, whose daughter Megan spoke to us. And Megan has started an advocacy group called Silver Lining of Hope. And you can find [e-mail] One of her things is that her mother was strangled a number of times by this, you know, her alleged killer, who was her husband. And she says that she. What she's advocating now is stronger domestic violence and strangulation laws and also abilities to, you know, identify areas to identify strangulation in both active and cold case investigations. And the reason she's focusing so much on strangulation is exactly what you and this prosecutor have, have narrowed down on, which is strangulation's absolutely a precursor to murder. And it makes sense when you think about it, right? Because it's a situation where if you're gonna strangle someone, like, you have to at least be somewhat okay with possibly killing. It's just an inherently dangerous act. So I think it's great that Maui county is a prosecutor who's taking this seriously. I think everyone should be following suit.

[Kevin Greenlee]

He's also directing the prosecutors who work for him to request much higher bail amounts for people who are charged with strangulation. Previously, a person facing that sort of charge would be facing a bail of like five to $10,000. Now they're going to be looking at $50,000. And they're also going to try to improve training of nurses and others because sometimes it can be difficult. As I Say to look at someone who's been strangled and be able to identify what, to be able to identify external evidence of that, you have to know what to look for, like burst capillaries as opposed to bruising. And the nurses could also be trained to ask specific questions like did you lose consciousness? And things like that. And again, this would all be in the record. And it could make it easier to prosecute some of these offenders even if the victim later chose not to cooperate.

[Anya Cain]

Yes, that is a big problem with domestic violence cases is, you know, it's a cycle and people go back to their abuser again and again and again. That is normal. It's baffling to people on the outside, but in the inside it's just what happens and you have to be prepared for that.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, So I think this is, I wanted to highlight this because I think it's terribly important and I'm really happy that Maui county is taking this so seriously.

[Anya Cain]

Absolutely. So do you want to go back to the mainland now?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Let's go back to the mainland.

[Anya Cain]

We're on Washington. So this is out of Thurston county and this is a listener request. So a listener was kind enough to send us this case, ask us to cover it. So thank you so much to that listener. Very disturbing case and my sources for this one, Court TV did some pretty comprehensive write ups on it and also como news. So this is out of Lacey, Washington and it involves sort of a domestic violence situation. It goes back to an incident on October 18, 2024 and there's actually trial just started in this, but I think the issues around it date back further. So it centers around two parents, Issan and Zara Ali, and they were having issues between them and their young daughter, a 17 year old girl. I'm not going to name her because I think, you know, she's been named in the. I think she's been named in certain sources, but I just, I don't know, it's like she's the victim in the situation and I just don't feel comfortable with that. They are accused of essentially attacking her in what authorities are describing as an attempt at an honor killing. So for those of you who are not familiar with that term, an honor killing refers to essentially a type of murder where, and it's usually, let's be clear, not always, but it is usually against women. Some, some term it as a type of femicide and it's, it's like a killing that's in, that's done in retaliation for somebody, quote unquote, dishonoring their family or the victim. Like they're bringing shame on their family, according to the perpetrators. Now, I don't know what could bring further shame on any family than like murdering one of your kids, but I guess this is, this is where, this is where this comes in. And when we report on this, it's typically what we're talking about with honor killings is it's, it's, you know, when the mainstream media picks up something like this, it's often associated with the Middle East. That's not entirely fair. Honor killings do occur in other societies. So just because it's publicly conflated with that does not mean that it's linked to one group of people or, you know, anything like that. So we shouldn't be making assumptions on that. It's just that, you know, like, that's where it kind of comes down. So these two parents, they, they basically confront their daughter. What, what happens is, what, what Again, this is, you know, they're innocent until proven guilty. The trial's ongoing. But I will say that there is a lot of video footage in this case. And what happens is they seem to be disapproving of her relationship with her boyfriend. And she suspects that they're trying to lure her to Iraq to force her to consent to an arranged marriage to an older man. And she is, is not cooperating with this. And the, the scene basically happened outside of a school I mentioned. October 18, 2024. This is @ Timberline High School. And Esau Ali jumps on top of his 17 year old daughter there and starts strangling her. And he's got her in a chokehold and other people start intervening, they start punching him to get her off of him. I mean, these witnesses were just horrified. They're filming the incident and you know, and he severely hurt her. She lost consciousness. He was, he was strangling her so hard. Um, her boyfriend's like trying to fight him. I mean, it just, it's, it's, it's horrible. People who were nearby at first thought like, oh, this is a fight among students. And then they realize it's one of the parents attacking their own children. And. Yeah, so they are able to get the girl away from him. And you know, she's, she's accused them of trying to kill her. She says that this was part of this, you know, honor killing. And I guess now it's up to the prosecution, the defense and the jury to determine what exactly happened here. But I guess just, you know, this is horrifying. I really hope that this Poor young woman is doing okay. I mean, I can't imagine if, if her, if her contention that this was essentially an attempted murder is accurate, then my heart breaks for her. That's horrible to have your parents put you through that. It's awful.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It's. It's awful. It's just abhorrent.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. And like, yeah, it's just, it's, it's just totally unacceptable. Yeah. Well, but I think that's kind of, it's, it's kind of early days, so we'll have to see how this unfolds. What's the evidence that it's going to come out. And I think there's going to be places for people to follow along with this case. I just can't imagine doing that to your own baby. Like, that's just horrible. Like, I mean, I don't. I may. I imagine an issue at trial will be like, was this just like a domestic incident? That was because I don't think anyone's disputing that he was attacking her. So the question will be, is that an honor killing in progress or is that just him being an abusive piece of garbage? Didn't intend to kill her, but I mean, on the outside, either way, it looks pretty bad.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes, sometimes we mess up technology on this podcast.

[Anya Cain]

One time, if anyone remembers this, we made a reference to a train whistle but accidentally edited out the train whistle sound so nobody knew what we were talking about.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I have not recovered from that.

[Anya Cain]

I don't think I ever will.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So we love when we find tech and apps that we can really use without worrying about messing up. We recently started using one app that's so good, so intuitive, so user friendly.

[Anya Cain]

That it's us proof that app is Cash App.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Setting this up was easy and fast. We were able to get started using it right away. It's such a convenient app for making payments.

[Anya Cain]

It also makes payments personal and fun. I love that you can customize payments with text and stamps and backgrounds. It's really cute.

[Kevin Greenlee]

If you're not using Cash App yet, download it from your phone's app store, sign up, enter our code msheet in your profile, send $5 to your friend and you'll get $10 just for getting started.

[Anya Cain]

No extra hoops, easy setup, lots of security measures to protect you and your money from all kinds of heists. Not that I would know anything about that, but seriously, Cash App even flags it. If you might be sending money to a scammer. They are really looking out for you. In our minds, other digital wallet type.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Things don't come close for a limited time. Only new Cash App users can use our exclusive code to earn some additional cash. For real? There's no catch. Just download Cash App and sign up. Use our exclusive referral code msheet in your profile. Send $5 to a friend within 14 days and you'll get $10 dropped right into your account. Terms apply. That's money. That's Cash App. The world's a scary place. We all know that from listening to True Crime. Your home should feel safe. But unfortunately, many home security systems are purely reactive. They just let you know when someone's breaking in. Now if you've ever had a break in, you know that it is such a violating and upsetting experience just knowing that someone was in your space.

[Anya Cain]

We use Simplisafe, our sponsor, for our home security system. That's a system that goes the extra mile to protect you. SimpliSafe's new Active Guard Outdoor Protection helps stop break ins before they even happen. Think about that. They're not reactive. They're proactive and they're here for you.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We have used SimpliSafe for years and there's one reason for that. We believe in the company and the product. We trust the SimpliSafe team to protect our home. We know that its live monitoring agents are on hand to detect possible suspicious activity around our property. If you're interested, just know that we recommend it. It's terrific for renters and homeowners alike. With no contracts, no hidden fees and flexible monitoring plans that start around a dollar a day.

[Anya Cain]

Visit simplisafe.com msheet to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's simplisafe.commsheet there's no safe like Simplisafe.

[C]

Mochi Health is here to help you start your weight loss journey with caring, personalized support. Meet one on one with board certified obesity doctors and registered dietitians who truly listen and understand your unique needs. Eligible patients can access affordable GLP1 medications delivered right to their door each month. No insurance. No problem. Mochi Health accepts FSA and HSA making care accessible and affordable. And with 24. 7 customer service, you'll never feel alone on your path to better health. Get started with Mochi Health today. Take the free [e-mail] and use code AUDIO40 at checkout for $40 off your first month of membership. That's join mochi.com with promo code AUDIO40.

[Anya Cain]

So that is Washington.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Okay, we're just moving along, zipping along at a quick clip on the cane. Is there a cane rhyming word for like a boat? Because boats move at a clip. Right?

[Anya Cain]

Okay, Captain Kevin.

[Kevin Greenlee]

But I guess, though, I guess we're going from one part of land to another part of land. So.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, so is our dog Lanny, as you can probably hear in the background.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So you would use a boat. You wouldn't use a boat to go Washington to California unless you took a really out of the way route.

[Anya Cain]

I mean, you could. Not that I've ever done it. I have a mysterious bass. Yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

The Kane catamaran. Is there. Catamaran. That is. That doesn't rhyme with Kane, though. But it has the cc.

[Anya Cain]

It doesn't. I don't. I think we're. I don't think we're gonna have any luck with the rhyming boat. Sorry.

[Kevin Greenlee]

The rhyming boat sounds like your. Your band you had back in college.

[Anya Cain]

This sounds like a band for children. Yeah, so that's the band I had in college. Whatever.

[Kevin Greenlee]

But we digress.

[Anya Cain]

Let's move along.

[Kevin Greenlee]

This is a story. Pardon me, as we say, that is out of California. Source for this was the LA Times. This is a wrongful conviction case. And we come to it with it already being formally resolved. A man named Alexander Torres spent 20 years in prison before he was released. And he received an official apology from the former district attorney. And there were apparently some pretty significant issues with some of the detectives who worked on the case. Ms. Torres was arrested in 2001 for the shooting death of a man named Martin Gutron. I'm sure I'm mangling that name. And there were some pretty significant problems with the case. The detectives, it's not even clear if they turned over their notes on the case to the defense counsel, which obviously they should have done under discovery rules. And also they. They didn't really do their due diligence on some of the witnesses. And they suggested that Mr. Torres's alibi was inconsistent and not convincing, even though he had multiple people placing him at a wedding or, pardon me, at a birthday party for his mother. And on top of all of that, he wasn't only at a birthday party at the time of the killing, but he was wearing a cast. And this cast that he had at the time would have made it quite difficult for him to be able to successfully pull a trigger and shoot a person to death. So for all of these reasons, not only was he eventually had. Not only was he eventually released and had his sentence vacated, but Mr. Torres and the former prosecutor filed a joint motion for an official finding that he was actually factually innocent of the crime. So that was granted. And so now his record is completely clear. And there is an official finding that he did not commit this murder for which he spent 20 years of his life in prison. And it was when he was a young man, like from, I believe he went in when he was in his 20s. And just imagine what it would be like to lose two decades of what probably are the best years of your life and to have that be gone forever and taken from you for something you never did. So perhaps not surprisingly, he did file a lawsuit against the government. And the LA County Board of Supervisors voted to settle that suit and award him $14 million. And they approved that payment by a vote of 5 to 0. So these cases break my heart because I, I, I've not looked deeply into this, but the fact that there was an official finding of that he was factually innocent is something I find pretty persuasive. It breaks my heart that he lost all of that time, all those years of his life, which are irreplaceable. Think of all of the experiences you had when you were in your 20s and 30s and even early 40s, and think about not being able to have those experiences. Think of the places you weren't able to go, the people you weren't able to meet, the professional accomplishments you weren't able to have. And it's all because some people didn't do their jobs as they should. So I don't even know how you put a dollar value on that. So, I mean, are you sure this.

[Anya Cain]

Guy'S actually innocent, though? I mean, there's like rife innoc. So I guess I'm just curious, like, what makes you think this one?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, as I acknowledged a moment ago, I've not done a deep dive into the case, but the fact that the prosecutor apologized to the man and sought an official finding that he was factually innocent, I find that very persuasive. That's not something we often see in innocence fraud cases.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, I'll reserve judgment. I think you after we've been through.

[Kevin Greenlee]

The Temujin Kinsey wars, we're naturally skeptical of these sorts of things, but in the TEMZ case, we don't have a prosecutor apologizing.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, but the prosecutor is George Gaskin, right?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah.

[Anya Cain]

So, you know, he's a pretty controversial one. Some people really like him. I'm not saying I don't like him or I think he's bad. He's the former LA County District Attorney. I don't think he is. I think he was not reelected or whatever. If he was pushed out. So, you know, it, he might, he might be a bit of an outlier amongst prosecutors. Maybe for good, maybe for ill. Not even saying, I don't even know. But I think what you're saying about him being at a birthday party and family members saying that, I don't know. But him having a cast that would make it hard to shoot, that to me is more significant.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah. And I should say it's not just witnesses who say that he had this cast. There are medical records indicating that he had a broken hand.

[Anya Cain]

So that's pretty crucial.

[Kevin Greenlee]

That's pretty crucial because none of the witnesses to the shooting reported that the shooter had on a cast. And it's not like a cast isn't like a sweater or a hat. Nope, you can't take it off and then put it back on. And there's also somebody who confessed to this man's family. Oh, it was this person that did it. So there's a number of ways.

[Anya Cain]

It sounds pretty compelling based on what you're saying.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Again, I'm all about being skeptical of things and I'm not looked into this, but when I see the people who were actually involved in the conviction apologizing and asking for an official finding of factual innocence, that's something I find very, very compelling. There's other so called wrongful convictions cases, not just hemorrhage and Kinsey, but other so called wrongful conviction cases where the prosecutors are very much still saying, no, this guy's definitely guilty.

[Anya Cain]

Right.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And that's not the case here.

[Anya Cain]

I just think in the, I mean, I know in the our we've covered the murder of Anita Byington where the accused man in that, the man who was convicted of that murder, Andre Causey, you know, the, the prosecutor's office ended up saying, we actually don't think he did anymore. The victim's family feels like, well, you're not really giving us a clear cut answer on why that is. And a lot of what you're saying doesn't really add up. So there's like weird, there can be weird kind of middle of the road things where you're like, okay, we're not really, you know, what's going on here. That certainly raises some red flags. But in this situation with the cast thing, that seems pretty hard to overcome, especially if he has medical records. So you're not just saying like, oh, he just got a cast as like part of his plan to get away with it, it's like went, he went to the hospital for, you know, broken arm or whatever. So good find. That's interesting. And also I agree it is very sad if somebody loses their 20s and 30s in prison. So I, I think in a situation like that where there's confidence that something was indeed a wrongful conviction and that somebody was indeed factually innocent, they should get $14 million.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Cuz like, if not more, you can't.

[Anya Cain]

Buy that time back. So I mean, you should at least. He hasn't been able to potentially like have the career he wanted. So like I, I think having a situation where someone gets compensated is very necessary.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You're, you're a younger woman, so I don't know if this would mean as much to you, but he, he goes to prison in 2001, gets out 20 some years later. So when he goes to prison there's like no iPhones, nothing of that. So the technology just everything is so different. And to be thrown back into that all at once must have been quite a culture shock.

[Anya Cain]

It's sad for him and it's sad for the victim, the survivors of the victim who died, because it's like, you know, true justice wasn't really served in a situation like that.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Now you want to talk about a long convoluted story where Frank Sinatra pops up at the end of it.

[Anya Cain]

The story of Frank Sinatra at the end.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, I wish every case we did, every episode had a, an appearance by Frank Sinatra.

[Anya Cain]

Frank Sinatra mysteries. He like jet sets doing his Rat Pack thing. But he, and I guess Dean and Sammy also solve crimes. Would you, Would you. Do you hate that? Do you love it? Do you love to hate it? Do you hate to love it?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, see, I think Mr. Sinatra is one of these gentlemen who, his own career in life was so distinguished. We don't need to make up fanciful, whimsical things of that nature.

[Anya Cain]

He uses mob ties to learn what's going on.

[Kevin Greenlee]

See, now you're just being distasteful. Why don't you be more respectful of Mr. Sinatra and tell this story?

[Anya Cain]

Kevin doesn't like it when you bring up Sinatra's mob ties. So let's see. Okay, I just, this was one of those cases. I just like, I don't even know if it's the case. I don't know what's going on. You know that scene and it's always sunny in Philadelphia where Charlie's like making a big murder board about Pepe Silvia. That's what I feel like I became looking into this and it's also like, I just ended up on a journey across the world. It was crazy. Leading back to Indiana. Everything has an Indiana connection. Charles Manson, Indiana connection, Jim Jones, Indiana connection. You know, there's always an Indiana connection. So I, I don't know how, but I just was like skimming something and it was. I'm gonna like, I'm actually gonna tell it in the order that I experience it. So you can go through this with me. Involves like several crime cases, including at least one murder, possibly more. But I was reading, I was just skimming through this book. Suddenly gone. The Kansas murders of serial killer Richard Grissom. Richard Grissom was an American serial killer, killed maybe up to four victims in Kansas in the 80s, in 89. So, you know, horrible case. And I was just looking at the author note about like, who the author is, and it said the author was a guy named Dan Mitrione. And I think I'm saying it right. It's either Mitrione or Mitrione. I apologize if I'm getting it wrong. I'm just gonna say Mitrione and said that he was a former federal investigator and that he was from Indiana. So I was like, that's cool. Indiana, you know, I know, I know where that is. I get excited when I see Indiana in the news at this point or in anything. So I looked him up. Cause I was just like, oh, this is cool. Maybe, you know, like, what's, what's the story here? And I found out that this guy was, was an Indiana native, he was an FBI agent, Federal Bureau of Investigation, and that he was.

[Kevin Greenlee]

He.

[Anya Cain]

How do I even explain this? So in the 80s, I guess cocaine and drugs were a big problem, right? People were like bringing them in from South America and bringing them into the country making fistfuls of money, right? There was a lot of that in Indianapolis. Indianapolis was a big drug hub. And it was, you know, all this stuff where people were piloting planes filled with high quality marijuana and cocaine and dropping bales of marijuana into the fields and just chaos. A lot of this was in Florida. So Agent, Special Agent Dan Mitrione was one of the people who was tasked with basically combating this. Right? But there was a problem. The problem was that he switched sides. He ended up actually taking bribes from the people he was supposed to be prosecuting in or in order to help them get away with some of this narcotic stuff. And he was actually in charge of something called Operation Airlift, from what I read, which was one of the big first FBI pushes into things like the drug war. So that's. That was in Florida, but there's also a pretty important Indiana connection there. So he was. He was basically, Gosh, he was dealing with cocaine shipments to Kokomo, Indiana, and He got a $9,000 watch and a couple other thousand dollars in order to allow one of his informants to sort of go back and do the Kokomo situation. And, you know, so some of the drug stuff was actually in Indiana. He also allowed. He actually. He himself drove a truck filled with cocaine from Kokomo, Indiana, to South Florida and got a cut profits there. And he also, you know, he'd get like. He'd seize a cocaine shipment, tell his bosses about some of it, but then keep a few kilos for himself. And then, you know, they. The bad guys would sell it. So eventually, you know, he was busted, right? And so I'm. I'm. I'm sitting here like, whoa, this. This took a turn. And what I was reading in the articles about him getting busted also made me be like, wait, what? Okay. Some of the articles mention this, and it's very. I mean, it's sad. I mean, I. It's. It's just, you know, it's a human tragedy. Obviously, an FBI agent turning against the Bureau and helping drug dealers is very upsetting. He pled guilty. So he pled guilty to, like, bribery and things like that. There's some reports out there that sort of indicate that he was maybe even doing more than that. But, like, I don't like, that's what he pled guilty to in the. Oh, my gosh. I'm just sitting here reacting to everything. I'm reading this and the articles say, oh, but we should note that he. Some people said he was just very distraught because his father had been murdered. So I'm like, what? Then I look up his father. Where do you even begin? And this is going to end on the. This is gonna end on the Frank Sinatra stuff. But I will say this. His father was the police chief of Richmond, Indiana, which is near the Ohio border. So you're thinking, okay, I'm thinking here. I'm sitting here a fool, just an utter rube, sitting here thinking, wow, that's really sad. His dad was the police chief of Richmond, Indiana, and must have gotten murdered on the job or something in Richmond, Indiana. Shoot out with bank robbers. You know, maybe somebody killed him because they were pissed off at the police. I don't know. No, we're going to Brazil. So this guy is the police chief of Richmond, Indiana. And he ends up having a pretty far flung career to going to South America with the U.S. government. And that was. So I don't want to, like, necessarily make any assumptions about who's right or who's, who's wrong here, but I mean, the thing about Dan Mitrione Sr. Not the, not the FBI agent, he was born in Italy and his family came to Richmond, Indiana, where when he was very little, he grew up there. And then he also served in World War II, became a police officer, and actually rose pretty quickly up the ranks to the chief of police. And then at some point in the 60s, he joined the International Cooperation Administration, which was a government agency that provided foreign assistance to different countries. It kind of was like the original US Agency for International Development or, you know, usaid. So that's where it started. And he was in the public Safety division, and he went to, I believe, Brazil. And his family, he had nine kids with his wife. They're all coming with him. They're, they're growing up in Brazil. They're speaking Spanish. And, and Dan Jr. Was part of that. And then he goes to Uruguay. And, and this is, this is where things get controversial. So it's, you know, some people have said, well, he was just kind of like helping these different countries, you know, do some trainings and like, you know, be like, training police officers, whatever, that can be a good thing, train the police to do a good job. But, but what the allegations have also been is that he was actually teaching some of them how to torture people and like, take down leftist organizations. Right, right. So, like, and, and maybe there's been some allegations that he was possibly having them, like, experiment with torture on homeless people. Again, that's a pretty charged accusation. Some people, I mean, a lot of, a lot of news sources just say that that is true. And then others have pushed back and said, no, that's just, you know, leftist propaganda. I don't, I'm not, I am not an expert. I know that America, the United States has done some pretty, pretty sketchy stuff by the Central Intelligence Agency, by the CIA in South America. I don't think anyone should be denying that. I don't know if this guy was part of it. I am not an expert and I've not done the reading that I would feel comfortable in saying that. But let's just say, like, a lot of allegations exist around that. So anyways, things go on. He's, he's, he's, he goes to Uruguay and he's training, he's training people there. In. In something that might be good or something that might be bad. I know that, you know, people who are working for the CIA, you know, in Uruguay said that he did teach torture techniques in. In his basement. And, you know, that was including, like, shocking people in some very sensitive and horrible places. And. Yeah. So this continues until 1970, when Mitrione disappears. It turns out he was kidnapped by the Tupamaros. And this was a Marxist Leninist group. Some would say terrorists, some would. Would say guerrillas. Some of the other communists thought they were too extreme. Like, I don't know, Everyone has an opinion, and they kidnap him and they demand the release of political prisoners or they're gonna kill him. And then a couple of things happen. There seems to have been some kind of arrest of some of their leaders. And there's been some people who've said since then, like, we had no intention of actually killing him. We were gonna just kind of hold him indefinitely. But because of that arrest, communications break broke down, and some people panicked. Other people think, no, they were gonna kill him anyway. So his body is found in the trunk of a stolen car. He's been shot. You know, he seemingly had also been shot in during the kidnapping. And. And so he was murdered. He was. He was killed. And this is where Frank Sinatra comes in. Frank Sinatra gets word of this. And can you explain a little bit about, like, why Frank Sinatra would. What was his situation with benefit concerts?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Frank Sinatra, as we were discussing earlier, a great man, an inspiration to everybody. And so he was a person who, like many of us, we don't read newspapers today as much as we used to, but back in the old days, you would read a newspaper. How many times have you looked at a newspaper or a story on the Internet and seen something that made you sad and think to yourself, oh, I wish I could do something to help that person. And most of us just don't have the resources to help everybody we see. But Frank Sinatra, he'd be looking in the newspaper and he'd come across a story that would touch his heart. And in some cases, he might just quietly send out a check to that person to help them out, not asking for or ever receiving any public acknowledgment of that. But in other cases, when things really, really got to him, he would go to the extent of doing a benefit concert, and that's what he did. In this case, I believe he also.

[Anya Cain]

Famously did in another murder case, Atlanta. The Atlanta child killings. I believe he performed for them. So he was, you know, he was, I guess, like, A bit of a true crime follower in his own way. He'd kind of see these things and want to step up, which is cool. I imagine that part of him must have empathized with Mitrione's background, being kind of an Italian immigrant coming here. And, you know, I don't think it necessarily was immediately apparent some of the controversy around this, but. So on August 29, 1970, Frank Sinatra performs a whole set list of. I believe. What, what, what setlist FM lists as 18 songs.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I have. We have a. An unofficial bootleg recording of this concert.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, should you be admitting that? Well, he brought Jerry Lewis too. Can you tell us about Jerry Lewis for the kids who don't know what. What he's doing?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Jerry Lewis is a fascinating, complex figure. Let's just leave it at that. Yeah.

[Anya Cain]

Kevin's fascinated with Jerry Lewis. I don't get it.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I don't enjoy his work, but I enjoy him as a personality.

[Anya Cain]

I don't get it at all. But you. Yeah, I know you're. You're like an anti fan, but you, like, respect it in a way.

[Kevin Greenlee]

His personality, the way he talks about things, and certain aspects of his career are. Are fascinating.

[Anya Cain]

He's saying, I've got a world on the string. I get a kick out of you. He's. He closed with My Way, which is the rare Sinatra song that you don't like.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes. That's not a good song.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, he's not a fan. I've Got yout Under My Skin. You like that one? A lot of Cole Porter situations.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Great concert. And this was a benefit concert for.

[Anya Cain]

The family, and he got covered yesterday by the Beatles, interestingly. So, you know, they. They came out and. And they ended up raising a lot of money. I believe they raised $20,000 for Mitrione's family, which was again, nine kids. And this is what. Well, for, I will say. So he's kind of the. The side of pop culture that's embracing Mitrione as far as a one piece of pop culture that is more anti. Mitreone. It's a French film called State of Siege from 1972, directed by Costa Gavros. I'm probably saying that wrong.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You are. Didn't he also direct.

[Anya Cain]

Wait, what? Then you say how to pronounce it?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Didn't he also direct Missing, which is a film about the CIA's coup or involvement in a coup in Chile in the early 70s.

[Anya Cain]

Was that how the one about how they murdered the US journalist?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes.

[Anya Cain]

What was that guy's name? I'm looking it up.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Charles Horman.

[Anya Cain]

Charles Horman. What was. Yeah, that was. That's a very trouble. And again, US meddling in South America. Can you explain how to pronounce the.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Director'S name, Costa Gravis?

[Anya Cain]

I don't know. That's why I'm asking you. So, yeah, so this is. That portrayed him more negatively. But anyways, Frank Sinatra said this of Mitrione. He said, quote, I never met Richmond's son, Dan Metrion, yet he was my brother, as all of us in America are brothers, end quote.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Oh, great man, Mr. Sinatra.

[Anya Cain]

Well, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what to think about any of this. Like, I didn't expect to be getting into, like, international waters of, like, corruption and torture and ethical questions about what US's role is around the world in terms of, like, what the hell happened here? And was he really torturing people? Like, that's horrifying. But also, like, I feel bad for his kids. And also, yeah, I imagine that would kind of be something that would be like, really devastating to happen. But also you shouldn't be a corrupt FBI agent and let, like, cocaine get into United States and take money for it. So, like, the whole thing's horrible. But this is the journey I went on and that's the journey I took all of you on. So thanks for coming with me. I. Didn't you ever just ever get in one of those research rabbit holes where you're suddenly like, wait, what? Like, and then you, like, you're like, looking more into the backstory of everything.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Kevin, all the time.

[Anya Cain]

Well, I guess. What do we got going on right now? Now that we're done with our journey?

[Kevin Greenlee]

You want to tell the people about T shirts and crimecon?

[Anya Cain]

Why don't you tell them? Why don't you talk about the T shirts?

[Kevin Greenlee]

First we have our old reliable T shirts, and then we also have T shirts of new and different designs which are available at a web link that. I believe you can share the address for that link.

[Anya Cain]

Yes, you should be able to, but as usual, it falls to me. So let's see. It's called themurdersheet.dashery.com that's T H E M U R D E R S h e e t.d a s h e r y.com and it's going to be also included in the links in our show notes.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I believe, like, like, the shirt is like an image of you, like, wild eyed, like, stealing some cereal. And I think maybe we should have, like, images, shirts with images of me, like, sitting quietly reading and thinking and being dignified.

[Anya Cain]

I think we should have a picture of you doing something stupid like, I don't know, getting. Dragging me to go see maybe like a. The fact that you're going to force me to go see the Jerry Lewis film that everyone hated that, like, never even got really released. When that comes out, even though you don't even like Jerry Lewis, maybe we'd have a shirt about that. Do you like that?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I think you'd have to be very careful about such a shirt because the themes of that. That film involved the Holocaust.

[Anya Cain]

He's gonna make me go see that when it comes. This is what I have to deal with. And I have to get. I have to get razz on the show constantly about cereal, even though I never stole anything in my life. What do you claim I've never stolen?

[Kevin Greenlee]

The film is not going to be released ever. It's just gonna be available for screenings of the Library of Congress. And what a happy day that will be.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, my God. What a disaster.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And it's incomplete.

[Anya Cain]

God.

[Kevin Greenlee]

But I'm about to reveal that we now have physical proof that our book exists. Because we got a box which. It's from Simon and Schuster, so I think it's probably our book.

[Anya Cain]

Something else entirely.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And so if you have any concerns that this book thing is an elaborate ruse, but maybe someone's pranking us. Maybe it's like a Nathan Fielder stunt. Should I open up this book and pull out a book?

[Anya Cain]

Okay, if you want to. Kevin's doing an unboxing video without the video portion, so that makes a lot of sense. He's going at it.

[Kevin Greenlee]

He's going at it.

[Anya Cain]

He's knifing it.

[Kevin Greenlee]

There's. There's wrapping paper. By wrapping paper, I mean just brown paper.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, there is.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So what kind of a book is this if it's with brown paper?

[Anya Cain]

He's opening it.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I'm opening it.

[Anya Cain]

He's looking curiously inside. I didn't know he was going to do this, but he's doing it.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Here it is.

[Anya Cain]

Wow.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So the book actually exists?

[Anya Cain]

It does. I'm glad you confirmed that. Were you worried for a minute?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, you'd never know. I saw the rehearsal. The Nathan Field just show.

[Anya Cain]

How do you feel about holding the book?

[Kevin Greenlee]

It's pretty exciting. And so all of you can have such a moment if you order the book yourselves. And should I mention something on the front cover that I don't think we've officially announced? But it's right there on the front cover, folks.

[Anya Cain]

Hold the book up to the camera. I'm actually filming him now. So we're doing, we're doing some cross posting. So, yeah, we want to say what it is.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It is the identity of the person who wrote the introduction to the book.

[Anya Cain]

Who is that esteemed individual, Kevin?

[Kevin Greenlee]

It is a gentleman by the name of Doug Carter.

[Anya Cain]

Yes. The former Indiana State Police Superintendent. We were very honored that he was willing to write the introduction for our book. So very exciting. Are y' all, all, y' all all done with your unboxing?

[Kevin Greenlee]

I'm done with the unboxing. The book exists. It's.

[Anya Cain]

You've confirmed it. You sleuthed it.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Anya came up with the title. I came up with the front cover photo.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, we both contributed in some minor way.

[Kevin Greenlee]

That's right.

[Anya Cain]

Well, there's, there's that. And then I probably better pull up our crime con information in case anyone wants to go. Yes, and, and let them, let them know that you're going because you are, you are a friend of the Murder Sheet podcast. And I want to get this, get this, get this one right. I, I, I think it's something really basic, but I don't want to say the wrong thing.

[Kevin Greenlee]

That would be embarrassing.

[Anya Cain]

That would be humiliating. So it's actually code Murder Sheet. So, yeah, it was pretty easy. M U R D E R S H E E T and if you use this to go to CrimeCon, you're going to get 10% off your standard badges, you're going to save some money. Quite a deal. And you're going to be letting them know, hey, it wasn't a huge mistake to let the Murder sheet into this event. You're not going to ruin the day.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And speaking of Frank Sinatra, we mentioned him in our list of people we thank.

[Anya Cain]

Can you move up closer to the mic? You, like, disappeared there for a minute.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We mentioned Mr. Sinatra in the list of people we thank.

[Anya Cain]

Yes, we each mentioned people that we were thanking. And Kevin used that section to mention him and also a Superman comics editor, because you mentioned some people wanted to know, what did you think of Superman? Speaking of, speaking of Mort Weisinger, what did you think you saw the film?

[Kevin Greenlee]

We saw the most recent film. It was okay. There were things about it that were good things about it that were. Yeah, but it wasn't a disaster.

[Anya Cain]

I think I'm just going to say this. You sound pretty lukewarm on it, and you are, but I have to tell you guys, I was. He is so. You were so picky about Superman and what you envision for that character. The fact that you didn't actively hate it is actually a huge, like, endorsement from you.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes.

[Anya Cain]

Like, you're, you're grading on a. You know, you're, you're, you're a harsh professor for the Superman adaptation. So this was a pretty, pretty stunning win for, for. I was surprised how much you liked it, given what I was hearing beforehand.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Because I'm such a negative and unpleasant person.

[Anya Cain]

No, no. It's just you want to see the Silver Age. And this was probably closer to that than other in some ways. In some ways. I mean, the, the some. I mean, I, I enjoyed it. I thought it was fun. I mean, I had some problems with it, but I enjoyed it mostly. I mean, I'm not, I'm not thinking about it too much, honestly, because I, I, it's like a little fun superhero.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You don't like to do the thinking. You don't like to do the brain work.

[Anya Cain]

It's not exactly like, I mean, I'm not a huge, like, superhero film fan in the sense that I'm, like, interpreting it. I'm just more of like, oh, cool, they're flying around that'. You know, I'm not, I'm not thinking about it too much. I'm not that deep about superheroes. But you are. And you definitely. You liked it more. Did you like it better than the 1978 movie?

[Kevin Greenlee]

The 1978 movie is another. Because there's things about it that are really good and things about it that are terrible. One thing about it that was terrible, I thought was it made Krypton such a cold and sterile place. And if Krypton is so cold and sterile and lifeless, who cares that it gets blown up? You want there to be a sense of loss?

[Anya Cain]

There you go.

[Kevin Greenlee]

But I digress.

[Anya Cain]

Well, I think that was all we wanted to talk about today.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Speaking of loss, you're about to lose us for several days. Although.

[Anya Cain]

Wait, what's happening to us?

[Kevin Greenlee]

The episode is ending.

[Anya Cain]

Gonna lose us.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, you can always.

[Anya Cain]

Don't scare them.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You can always visit our extensive library. But the episode is ending. So we're about to say goodbye.

[Anya Cain]

Well, we're coming back. We're coming back. Hopefully. I don't know. What's he. What are you, Are you, like, going to, like, fake our disappearances Agatha Christie style? What's going on?

[Kevin Greenlee]

When we say goodbye, we're not faking a disappearance. We're just saying goodbye to the people. And the episode is.

[Anya Cain]

You said you're going to lose us for a couple days in a sort of Ominous way. So I was just curious what schemes you had in mind.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We're not going to do like a 72 hour podcast just talking through the entire weekend. No one would want that.

[Anya Cain]

People would be turning it off in disgusting.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I have a 72 hour podcast in my head all the time of just myself talking and thinking and I'm not happy about it.

[Anya Cain]

He's like at your personal podcast.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, I'm always thinking about something.

[Anya Cain]

I feel like we should do a spin off the Kevin Files and it's just you talking all day. People would know. People would know why I get so fiery on the show. Well, that would be probably more listenable than my personal Anya Files. That would just be. People would get. Get second hand anxiety or something. I don't know what would happen. It would reduce everyone's mental health. But on that note, just hit the.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We always go a little bit longer than we should. Just hit the button before, before we.

[Anya Cain]

Get to see we're the people who like are nervous to come to a party but then we don't leave. We're nightmares. Hit the button.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email [e-mail] if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[Anya Cain]

If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com. if you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www. Buymeacoffee.com murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the [e-mail] if you're looking to talk with.

[Anya Cain]

Other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You know, Anya, we are in this true crime space. It's such a difficult place to be in sometimes and one of the reasons is because you're talking about cases that people have a real emotional involvement in. And so if you reach a conclusion that some people don't like online, they're going to like start attacking you and even threatening you.

[Anya Cain]

Yes.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I know when that first started happening to us it was really, really unsettling and difficult. And I know one thing that really helped us feel better and safer to continue on with the show was SimpliSafe.

[Anya Cain]

SimpliSafe has been a company we've trusted for years. We've used them for years to protect our home. And one of the reasons is they just give us that peace of mind. As Kevin said, we're no strangers to controversy. And sometimes that can mean getting threats or getting basically hit veiled threats where people say they're going to come hurt you because they disagree with what you're saying about a case. And so with SimpliSafe, we're able to kind of keep the murder sheet train chugging along and not worry about that too much because we know that they are so proactive about how they keep homes secure. This is a company, I mean, their new active guard, outdoor protection that's there to stop break ins before they happen. They're not just letting you know about, oh, this bad thing happened. They're trying to prevent it from even happening so you don't have to go through that trauma. They have live monitoring agents on hand 247 to possibly detect suspicious activity around the property. They have cameras. And also, one thing I like about them is they're flexible. They know that different people have different needs. They know that if you're a renter, you can't necessarily set up the same amount of equipment and it can't be on the walls permanently as you could do if you're a homeowner. So they're great for renters, they're great for homeowners. No contracts, no hidden fees. Visit simplisafe.com msheet to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's simplisafe.com msheet there's no safe like SimpliSafe. I think you and I, Kevin, are people who always like to support a company that's giving back to the community in some key way and supporting a cause that we care about. Is that fair to say?

[Kevin Greenlee]

That's very fair to say.

[Anya Cain]

One cause that we care about is supporting veterans. Veterans, people who've served our country, people who have served in the military. They deserve all the support they can get when they come back and when they're adjusting to society and dealing with things like trauma.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Right, Right.

[Anya Cain]

Well, one company that's based in Austin, Texas, is Hometown Hero, and they're doing just that. They're founded by a US Veteran, and he understood, first and foremost how trauma can affect veterans. So a portion of their profits actually goes into causes that support veterans and groups that are supporting veterans. So when you're buying one of their premium hemp products, you're actually giving back to veterans. We think that's awesome. A lot of their products have this live rosin in it. This is a cannabis concentrate that's extracted using heat and pressure. That means you're getting very pure, very good cannabis in your hemp product that you're getting from them. They ship all throughout the country. It's very discreet packaging. It goes right to your door. And you can really experiment with them because they have something for people with all sorts of levels of THC experience. They have infused chocolates, they have gummies, they've got tinctures, they've got inhalables. Basically whatever you want to try. It's a great thing for you and for even your dog. I think they have some CBD products for dogs, so it's something to really kind of check out and see if you're interested, reclaim your evening. Visit hometownhero.com and use code msheet to take 20% off your first purchase. That's hometownhero.com code msheet for 20% off your first purchase. So we want to shout out one of our wonderful sponsors right now, and that sponsor is Happy Mammoth. This is a wonderful natural wellness brand. We've been using it, and it's been terrific. They're a great solution if you feel like you might be dealing with some hormone disruptors. I mean, that kind of happens to everyone. It's in the air, it's in the food. It's in lots of different products.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So it's really reduced your cravings.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, for me, it's. I mean, I get cranin nuts about my cravings. Sometimes I will, you know, suddenly really want Macintosh apples, which aren't even in season, and various other things. We all know I've been stealing a lot of cereal recently, or allegedly, I should say. And so to kind of help beat that, I've been using their hormone Harmony supplement. It's just a supplement. You take it a couple of times, you know, couple doses. And I feel like it's boosted my gut health, to be honest. It's also something that women who are in perimenopause or menopause, they can use it, and it's gonna reduce your hot flashes. You're gonna have more energy, get to sleep better. So it's really good for women of all ages. But for me, the gut health element of it has been really special. So if you're interested, for a limited time, you can get 15% off your entire first order at happymammoth. Com. Just use the code msheet at checkout. That's happymammoth.com and use the code msheet for 15% off today.