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- [00:00]
Anya Cain
If you're like me, you get a little bummed out after the holidays. But there's no reason not to treat yourself and your loved ones a little bit all year round. And the good news is that Murder Sheet listeners can embrace the finer things without breaking the bank. All thanks to our wonderful sponsor, Quince.
- [00:16]
Kevin Greenlee
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- [00:46]
Anya Cain
I love my Mongolian cashmere sweaters. I got the black V neck sweater and a dark blue turtleneck sweater. They're so soft and comfortable. I wear them all the time and I love the way I look in them. They're the perfect thing for a chilly winter's day.
- [01:00]
Kevin Greenlee
All quince items are 50 to 80% less costly than those of their competitors. So you know you're getting an amazing deal. Plus, we love Quince's commitment to ethics. They only partner with factories that use safe and responsible manufacturing practices. They maintain low cost by cutting out the middleman and passing the savings onto all of us.
- [01:23]
Anya Cain
Treat yourself this winter without the luxury price tag. Go to quince.commsheet for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q U I n c e.com msheet to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com msheet content warning this episode contains discussion of murder and violence, including sexually motivated murders. So today on the Cheat Sheet we've got some really weirdly enough cases from neighboring states. So we have New York and New Jersey and then we have Ohio and Pennsylvania. And we'll also discuss a tragic attack that just occurred in New Orleans. My name is Anya Cain.
- [02:17]
Kevin Greenlee
I'm a journalist and I'm Kevin Greenlee.
- [02:19]
Anya Cain
I an attorney and this is the Murder Sheet.
- [02:22]
Kevin Greenlee
We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews and deep dives into murder cases. We're the Murder Sheet and this is.
- [02:31]
Anya Cain
The Cheat Sheet Skillets and Screwdrivers it.
- [03:19]
Kevin Greenlee
Before we begin, I feel like I should note that I dropped the ball. I got tied up with some other show related work and so Anya picked up the ball, ran with it valiantly down the field and she is the one that has picked these cases and done the research for all of them. So I'm just going to be a big burden on this episode.
- [03:43]
Anya Cain
No, I also. Can I just say I love that we recently went to a sports bar to eat food and you watched a bit. And we watched a bit of the Texas vs. Arizona game. And now you suddenly are using a bunch of football metaphors to talk about our show.
- [03:58]
Kevin Greenlee
Yeah, we saw a little bit of this football game, and I even was interested enough later to look at the score. And it turns out something controversial happened at the end of that game. There was some sort of call that apparently some people feel went the wrong way. And I said, oh, I want to read and understand what this call was. And I read it and I don't understand it. But there was something controversial about a particular call.
- [04:20]
Anya Cain
Who won?
- [04:22]
Kevin Greenlee
I think Texas.
- [04:23]
Anya Cain
Okay. Yeah, we kind of got into it. We're really not. I mean, we're not. We're not anti sports. We're not like those weirdos who like, oh, a sports ball, blah, blah, blah. No, it's just. It's just not something we know that much about. But, like, you can kind of get into the crowd of like, oh, everyone's screaming. That's kind of fun.
- [04:37]
Kevin Greenlee
But it also goes to show you, we often on this program, we talk about the workings of the legal system and we're trying to explain how certain things work. Or here's what that means. And it doesn't mean we're smart. It just means we're interested in this field and we've come to understand it. And I don't have an interest in football. So there was this controversial call. I'm completely baffled by it. And that doesn't mean I'm dumb. It just means it's not my area of interest.
- [05:06]
Anya Cain
Right, yeah, that's a really good point. We all know what we know, and we don't know what we don't know. To Rumsfeld, there are unknown unknowns in topics that we're not well versed in. And it's always so important to keep that in mind.
- [05:23]
Kevin Greenlee
So, yeah, so that's why we really try to explain things in a clear way. Understanding. We're all smart people here, and I don't understand this football thing. But there was a controversial call.
- [05:33]
Anya Cain
But it was fun to sit along and be like, huh.
- [05:36]
Kevin Greenlee
Anyways, we had hamburgers and Coke.
- [05:39]
Anya Cain
What are you doing? Our orders. So I wish I could automate all my New Year's resolutions so I wouldn't have to muster the willpower to go on a walk for exercise. Or if I could automatically kick myself off my phone and launch a Margaret Millar book into my hands instead, that would be awesome. Somewhat scary, but super helpful.
- [06:00]
Kevin Greenlee
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- [06:17]
Anya Cain
We're so grateful that today's episode episode is sponsored by Acorns. Acorns makes it easy to start automatically saving and investing so your money has a chance to grow for you, your kids and your retirement. You don't need to be an expert. Acorns will recommend a diversified portfolio that fits you and your money goals. You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you invest with the spare money you've got right now. You can start with $5 or even just your spare change.
- [06:43]
Kevin Greenlee
Take more control of your financial future now set up your Acorns account and start investing in just five minutes. Acorns gives you small, simple steps to get you and your money on track. Basically, Acorns does the hard part so you can just give your money a.
- [07:00]
Anya Cain
Chance to grow at the end of the day. We run a small business so we know firsthand how hard it can be to figure out money stuff. Plus, we're not very financially minded. I'm a history major, Kevin is an English major. We're not savvy with finances. An app like Acorns is a game changer because it allows you to automate so much of this without having to actively think about it all the time. Head to acorns.commsheet or download the Acorns app to start saving and investing for your future today. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns Tier 1 compensation provided investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. View important disclosures@acorns.commsheet get off 2025 to the perfect start. It's time to refresh and reach new heights with via. Our wonderful sponsor VIA is a premier hemp company that makes award winning THC and THC free gummies and vapes. They're a veritable Swiss army knife of wellness featuring topicals, drops and even more products crafted to elicit a specific mood or experience.
- [08:05]
Kevin Greenlee
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- [08:27]
Anya Cain
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- [08:51]
Kevin Greenlee
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- [09:04]
Anya Cain
If you're 21 and older, head to viahemp.com and use the code msheet to receive 15% off. And if you're new to Via, get a free gift of your choice. That's V I I A h e m p.com and use code msheet at checkout. After you purchase, they ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you this year. Enhance your every day with via. This is a very tragic story out of New Orleans though, that this is something that kind of actually this is whenever there's like really bad news in this country when I wake because like Kevin wakes up a little bit earlier than me, usually when I wake up, sometimes you'll just hit me with like some really bad news. So this is one of those stories where, you know, a vehicle attack against a crowd in New Orleans just happened and we're not going to say the name of the perpetrator here. He was killed in a shootout. He was a 42 year old American citizen from Texas who apparently was influenced, authorities are now saying, by the Islamic State terrorist group. So this was a terrorist attack against innocent people. A lot of young people just out having a nice time on New Year's Day, very early in the morning. I'm going to read some of their names. Not all the victims have been, have have had their names come out yet. I imagine as next of kin is notified, more will come out. But some of them already, again, a lot of very young people at the start of their lives who should have been allowed to live their lives if not for this one selfish and, you know, evil person's ridiculous ideology. So 18 year old Kareem Badawi was killed Martin beck, who was 27, also went by Tiger. Reggie Hunter, who's 37, Nakyra, Cheyenne, Dido, Matthew Tenadorio, who's 25, Hubert Gatro, 21. Those are the names that have come out. Yet I've seen different reports that said 14 or 15 people were killed, many were injured. And it's a frightening thing because vehicle attacks can be very difficult to anticipate and combat because, you know, there are certain areas where cars are allowed to be and most people are just trying to drive to get somewhere. But if, if that turns into some sort of terrorist attack, you know, again, it's just a concern for people in a lot of areas where that can be very difficult to stop. But obviously condolences to these families. This never should have happened. It's awful and so very concerning. And. Yeah, and we're, we're not naming the perpetrator again because it, there's, there's literature at this point that exists on some of these mass attack events and sort of looking at them like they, by giving the perpetrator a lot of attention, media may be making it more likely for other attacks to happen because you're essentially glorifying the person. Even if it's, you know, you're writing critically about it or talking critically about the person, you're giving them the attention they may seek. And so we're cognizant of that. And so that is why we've sort of tried at certain points to shift our approach.
- [12:16]
Kevin Greenlee
Yeah, it's a tough line to walk because you have a responsibility as a member of the media to report on what happens, which includes naming people, but you don't want to give them undue attention. So maybe the thing is to name them a couple of times and after that, don't. I remember a while back we did an interview with the author of a book on President Garfield, who of course was assassinated. And I think in his book, did he like, did he name the assassin once and then after that he just called him the assassin or killer.
- [12:48]
Anya Cain
I loved that. That was awesome. Yeah, that was because he had, he.
- [12:51]
Kevin Greenlee
Had some of these very similar concerns as you are so wonderfully articulating.
- [12:56]
Anya Cain
And in this case I'm just like. I mean, it's, we're not doing a huge deep dive into it, so I'm comfortable with not naming him. I don't think that adds much. I want to say what his ideology was and what, you know, what he was doing this, you know, in the name of. Because I think that's important for people to be aware, but I think it's not a situation where we need to necessarily dwell on, on him and his nonsense, frankly. So, yeah, that's, that's, that's one tragic thing that happened. Now I guess we'll go into a case that's literally from my backyard and I never heard of it.
- [13:34]
Kevin Greenlee
Like, not literally in your backyard.
- [13:37]
Anya Cain
Well, no, it's in your. My family was implicated. No, no, no, no.
- [13:42]
Kevin Greenlee
I mean, words have meanings.
- [13:44]
Anya Cain
Oh, whatever, Mr. Lawyer. So this is, this is a case where, you know, this is how close it was to where I grew up. Kevin, remember when we went walking in that park with my parents and Nala, the wonderful dog?
- [14:00]
Kevin Greenlee
Yes, but will our listeners remember this?
- [14:02]
Anya Cain
No, but I'm, I'm asking you. You all were along for the ride. You just didn't know it. You know it. This, this crime actually took place very close to that park. This was in a, a residence in Eastchester, which is a town that is rather confusingly in Westchester County. So East Chester is in Westchester in New York. I don't know why. Just don't worry about it. And this came up in the news because outgoing Westchester County District Attorney Mimi Rocca basically did like a, an announcement recently saying, hey, guys, remember we kind of had this one case that like we tried five times and it ended up in an acquittal. Well, we found two new suspects for these murders, and they have no connection to the person who initially came up in this. Two new guys that we don't know who they are. The incoming DA whose name I'm going to butcher and I apologize. Susan Kakashi subsequently pledged to kind of like say, I'll keep reviewing this. So I don't, I mean, I don't like. Which, you know, seems like. I'm sure the news is acting like, wow, that's a big deal. But that, that doesn't really seem like that.
- [15:17]
Kevin Greenlee
That's what a prosecutor does. They review cases.
- [15:20]
Anya Cain
Yeah, I'll continue to do my. I'll do my job once I take over. It's like, yes. So this is. So this is a case that took place in 1996, that long ago, and it was the murders of Archie Harris, a 79 year old man, and his home health aide, Betty Ramsharan, who is 35 and actually Harris's dog, BJ was also brutally killed. And these people all died in pretty graphic ways. They were beaten, they were stabbed. I believe a bag was put over Betty's head and she was strangled, as well as her throat being slit. It was all very Brutal. Archie Harris was a. A millionaire. He was a very wealthy man. He was known for bragging about how much money he had just lying around his house, which.
- [16:13]
Kevin Greenlee
Not a good idea.
- [16:14]
Anya Cain
No. In true crime, it feels like you do have cases like that, and you're just kind of like, what are people thinking? But okay. And he also, like, was alternatively described as either cantankerous or maybe just awful. There were numerous accounts of abuse towards aids. Pointing a gun at one, for instance, and then forcing another. There was a lawsuit over this to perform a sex act. That is very important to this case. So keep that in mind. So he's accused of forcing another aide, not Betty, but another person, to perform a sex act. So sexually assaulting one of his employees. And, you know, he. He, I believe, denied that. I think he had, like, an ad that was about to come out at the time of his death saying, like, I'll give $500,000 to anyone who can prove that. In addition to that, his three children were estranged from him and had been cut out of the will. And he seemingly was going to leave a lot of money to Betty Ramsharan, who was an immigrant from Trinidad, who was taking care of him. So, you know, complicated situation. And the. To be clear, the. The aide that he was accused of sexually assaulting was a woman named Stella Davis. And that assault allegedly occurred in July of 1996. So it had been pretty recent. On November 21, 1996, the bodies of Archie and Betty are found in the home. And again, it's this brutal scene. There's not a lot of evidence, though. It's not like fingerprints and things like that that really tie anyone to it. So the case actually goes cold for a while, until I believe it was a few years later, where a man named Selwyn Days was arrested. He had been harassing, having some kind of issue with his ex girlfriend, Sherrilyn Mayhew, and he was arrested for violating a protective order. And so, you know, doesn't seem related. Then Mayhew calls the police and says, by the way, the guy that you guys just got, she called anonymously, by the way, you need to look into him for this double homicide, because he bragged about doing it. And then it turns out that Daze was the son of Stella, the home aide who had said she was sexually assaulted by Archie Davis. So, you know, what Mayhew said was that in one instance, a guy bumped into Days and he said something like, quote, this guy don't know who he be messing with. You know, I will kill him because I Did it before and I got away with it. And he talked about, according to her, allegedly killing an old man and a lady and you know, said something like, the man raped his mother and nobody's gonna do anything to his mother. So it's like a revenge killing rather than motivated by the money aspect. So police get a confession. The problem with that though is that I, they, this, this interaction with police lasted for hours. So police say that they informed him of his miranda rights around 5:30pm and they didn't start videotaping the interviews, these kind of back to back long interviews until 1:42am and I've seen different reports on how long this lasted, but it was a long time. Meanwhile, defense would later claim that Daze is very suggestible and probably has a low intelligence, maybe even mental illness. They would later say that, oh, he was on Haldol, which if you ask any medical professional, Haldol does not make you just make stuff up. It, it's, that's not how it works. It's an anti psychotic. But they, they would note that and they would also say that he, ultimately they would get him confessing. What the defense argued is that they fed him a lot of information before that and then immediately afterwards he recanted. So I'm just curious so far, what are you thinking? What are your thoughts?
- [20:49]
Kevin Greenlee
Well, I'm mainly struck by the most recent development about the press release.
- [20:55]
Anya Cain
You're back in, you're back in 2024. You haven't come back with me to the early 2000s. You're still there.
- [21:01]
Kevin Greenlee
But it sounds like they had a decent case that they pursued.
- [21:06]
Anya Cain
I mean, okay, I'm not one of those people. I've gotten so skeptical of everything about how we talk about true crime that I'm not necessarily going to go and say that I believe that days is 100% innocent. I just don't know. I don't think they necessarily had a super strong case because there was and.
- [21:27]
Kevin Greenlee
He, he was acquitted. So basically, whether they had a strong case or a weak case, he is legally not guilty of the crime.
- [21:33]
Anya Cain
He's legally not guilty, but that doesn't mean someone's actually innocent. And I just don't feel like I, I feel like I would have to study something like this for a long time to feel like I was comfortable coming to a strong conclusion. Either way, to me, there were problems with his confession. That may actually be not problems. It may just be my misinterpretation of the, the case. And so I would defer to anyone who, who knows Better on this. But he claimed at one point he seemed to be recalling in his interview with police how his dad hit him in the head with a baseball bat. And then seemingly, one of the detectives asked, oh, was that. Was that one of the victims? And. And then he talked about how the old man had been nasty to him and hit him in the head with a bat, and he pretended to be dead and then came up and attacked Archie Harris. Now, I guess. I guess, like, one. Like, it sounds like Archie Harris had a history of bad behavior towards people. So I'm not saying that's totally, necessarily out of line, but it just seems a little bit like. So he. He hits Selwyn in the head with a baseball bat, but there's no, like, blood at the scene of the offender. Like, it. I don't know, just that something like, something about that struck me kind of the wrong way, I guess. And then also, Selwyn said that at the end, a woman was in the house with him and came in and was like, wow, you really butchered them. You sliced and diced them. So, like, there's. There's now two people at this scene. From what I read from the media accounts, I did not see anything about him saying that there was a bag over Betty's head either. So I guess I would. There's certain things about Selwyn days that do sound good for this case, I. E. Having a motive. He had a strong motive. This man seemingly was accused of wronging his mother, harming his mother. He and his mother, when you look into it, had a very enmeshed relationship. His mother was constantly getting into fights with his girlfriends. Like, it was really bizarre, frankly. And his mother later on kind of, like, messed up his defense by getting too involved in, like, seemingly trying to call witnesses to say, hey, can you. Like, you know, like, you saw him in North Carolina at this time. Right. Which is very suspicious, frankly. But at the same time, some of the things about the confession and certainly the fact that it was not filmed for so many hours, if they'd, like, lost a bit of film here or there, I don't think that's a huge deal. But you want to have a situation where defense attorneys cannot plausibly say, well, maybe you just fed him a bunch of details, you know.
- [24:20]
Kevin Greenlee
Well, basically, I guess where I'm at, I can understand why the prosecutors charged him. I can understand why the jury ultimately acquitted him.
- [24:28]
Anya Cain
Well, there were. There were five trials. Okay? There were no. I'm not even kidding. So first trial, hung jury. Okay. Second trial, he's convicted and then that is thrown out. Third trial, hung jury, fourth trial, he's convicted, and that's thrown out. And then fifth trial, acquitted.
- [24:54]
Kevin Greenlee
Right.
- [24:55]
Anya Cain
Reasons for it being thrown out. Incompetent counsel. I think there was because he did not provide alibi witnesses. There were a number of people in North Carolina who did seem to have seen him in Goldsboro, North Carolina. Now, they don't know when exactly these people were killed. It was somewhere between November 19, 1996, when Archie was last seen, and November 21, 1996, when the bodies were discovered. So it's kind of hard to nail down, but there were people who were, like, a former police officer in the area and a former magistrate who were able to say, well, I. I know I saw him on this date. One of the reasons that one of the witnesses was not used, which was this former police officer, was that he said he also ran into Stella Selwyn's mother, who was selling jewelry. And what. What the court noted was, it seemed like the defense attorney was freaked out about that, because it's like maybe Selwyn gave her jewelry from the victims to sell and stuff like that. What the court noted is that she was selling, like, cheapo costume jewelry with her sister at, like, a garage sale. So it wasn't really. Didn't seem like it should have been that much of a concern. But, yeah, it's so complicated. But, you know, some of these witnesses do give me pause. So does the fact that Stella was seemingly going around and trying to do stuff with him that is not a good look at all. Seems like she and the defense attorney were really kind of sniping at each other by the end, at least the initial defense attorney, you know, but can.
- [26:28]
Kevin Greenlee
We talk about this 2024 business? Because this is really confusing me. So correct me if I'm wrong. So basically, there is this contentious series of murder trials that ultimately end in acquittal.
- [26:40]
Anya Cain
Yes.
- [26:41]
Kevin Greenlee
A new prosecutor takes office and is now about to leave office. And as she leaves, she says, oh, by the way, do you remember that murder case that we lost? Well, now I think that person is innocent, and two other guys did it, but I'm not gonna tell you who they are. And we don't have nearly enough evidence to charge them. That's what I think. And then the new prosecutor says, I'll look at it. Is that basically it?
- [27:07]
Anya Cain
Yep.
- [27:08]
Kevin Greenlee
Why would the outgoing prosecutor do that? Why would she suddenly say, oh, I think it was these two other guys? Because if. If there was a mistake made in the prosecution of this first party, it Would be a rush to judgment, like charging him before they had the proper evidence. So why are you now suddenly basically doing something similar? She's not charging these people, but she's basically identifying them and saying, oh, there was these two people, I think really did it.
- [27:39]
Anya Cain
Well, I mean, she's not giving us any details, so I mean, I have no idea who she's talking about.
- [27:44]
Kevin Greenlee
It's troubling to me. Why? Why would you bother to do that?
- [27:47]
Anya Cain
I don't know. It's really bizarre because I think you're right. I think sometimes when people. And again, the press is so credulous with this stuff. Like the press is like, you know, cold case heating up, you know, extracts or read all about it. And like, what I see is I baffled by it too, because it's not really, I don't know, I mean, it would make sense if Mimi Roka like ran on, like, I'm gonna solve this case once and for all. But even then it wouldn't really make sense because why are you doing it as you're like one foot out the door.
- [28:16]
Kevin Greenlee
But it also creates a situation where if the incoming person comes in and says, I don't think there's evidence here and I don't think they're going to develop the evidence and never issues charges, does it look like, well, Mimi was on it and she would have done it and this person's dropped the ball?
- [28:32]
Anya Cain
Yeah, it kind of does. It creates that impression even if it's not accurate. People in true crime oftentimes, I think have a bit of a bullish view of prosecutors in the sense that, like, I've heard so many people like, well, you should just file the charges and see what happens. No, that's how you get prosecutorial abuse and people filing weak cases that have no business being going to trial. That's not good. That's not what we should want. Like, I hate it when people go on about, like, the prosecutor cares more about their winning record. You know what they should care about bringing strong cases. Because otherwise that is how you get wrongful convictions. You know, like that. Like, if we don't want that, then we can't be, you know, saying that you should just, you know, spin the roulette wheel. But in this case, I don't know, it's bizarre. It, you know, if it was maybe more detailed, maybe if her statement had been more of like, we're looking for evidence around this. If you know anything about this, come forward, maybe that would be like a lead generation situation that might make sense. But I do know that there was talk of DNA at least in 2009. There was, you know, there was indications that the base of the knife blade that had been used in the murders, Betty's DNA was on that. And actually the first defense attorney had this wild, frankly victim blaming and embarrassing theory that Betty got mad because Archie was actually going to leave more money to someone else and that would cut her out more. So she killed him and then killed herself. Even though all of the, you know, the, the witnesses who were, you know, the coroner and whatnot were like, that did not happen. That's not at all plausible based on the scene. So that's ridiculous and frankly insulting to one of the victims of this horrible crime. But they're indicated that there might be some kind of male DNA in some of these mixtures. So if, if there's enough and it's not too contaminated, then that would be a way forward potentially. But I wouldn't think you'd need to. Like, first of all, it's been years, so I think if they had anything, you know, it probably isn't enough. But if, I don't know, it's. Why do you think a prosecutor would do this? It's baffling to me.
- [30:51]
Kevin Greenlee
Passing the buck. I don't know.
- [30:53]
Anya Cain
It's baffling, but like, no one's talking about this.
- [30:56]
Kevin Greenlee
It's.
- [30:56]
Anya Cain
I mean, I don't know, maybe people in Westchester were, but I don't. I mean, I like. I mean, again, I know people in Westchester. I don't like, no one was coming up to me like, oh, gosh, they, they better get that Eastchester thing. Like, like it's not, it's. I mean, ever since I talked to.
- [31:10]
Kevin Greenlee
A prosecutor, I talked to a prosecutor once who said if a prosecutor thinks someone is guilty, they don't issue a press release, they file charges.
- [31:20]
Anya Cain
Yeah, you have an option here.
- [31:23]
Kevin Greenlee
And if you don't think someone is guilty or you're not sure, you just keep your own counsel. I, I don't see what is gained by this, especially if, as you say, the outgoing prosecutor isn't ask information. And also the outgoing prosecutor is not even going to have any impact on the investigation of this case going forward since she chose not to run for reelection.
- [31:46]
Anya Cain
Yeah, it's. It's really odd. And again, I can understand it more if it was like, hey, anyone who was at this gas station at this time, come forward. Because then it's like, there's an investigative angle, but it's just not. I don't know.
- [32:00]
Kevin Greenlee
I've Heard of cases where people think oh, if such and such a person is guilty, if I say something in the media, maybe they'll scare him into talking and revealing something. So maybe she has the misguided notion that if she says two people did it and two people did in fact do it, they might be so worried that they might turn on each other. And I don't know. That just seems like fantasy though. But I don't know what's in this woman's mind. I don't understand it.
- [32:25]
Anya Cain
Yeah, well, it's, it, I don't think there's, I don't think the case is heating up. I think that's overly generous by the press and I, I, maybe there is some grand scheme. I mean I almost hope there is but maybe there is some kind of like plan behind it. But I, I, it's too bizarre and I just don't think we can assume that. And frankly the response from the incoming D A is so lukewarm that you know, it, it doesn't really bode well I don't think for the case and frankly I, with DNA, I mean that would be great. But why hasn't there been movement already then? I think, I guess when it comes to whether Selwyn Day is as guilty or not, again open minded, I tend to think that at the very least perhaps the acquittal was warranted. I think there was a lack of evidence and I think the fact that the sanctity of the confession could be. So we talked a lot in the Delphi case about Richard Allen's confessions and what makes a wrongful confession and what, what do those typically look like? And with Richard Allen, he's on the spur of the moment to anyone who will listen and to people who don't want to hear it, telling them hey, I did this and they're basically saying shut up, shut up. And he's like nope, I did it. And you know, that's not really what you typically see with Selwyn days. He's taken in by police, they're talking to him for hours. I'm not going to just unilaterally accuse the detectives involved in this of, of malfeasance because I just don't know what happen. And it would be hard to know what happened because a lot of it wasn't filmed. So without knowing the individuals or their histories, I'm not going to say like that that definitely is, is something nefarious happened but at the very least because we don't know, it can be hard to say. And if someone is low iq. If someone is struggling with mental illness and is being grilled for hours and hours and hours and even inadvertently, things come up in that way. That's something that would be more typical of a wrongful confession. Not even necessarily a coerced confession, but certainly a wrongful confession where someone is saying something that they didn't do. And some of the details about like him getting hit with a baseball bat just seem like a little hard to believe.
- [34:45]
Kevin Greenlee
Right.
- [34:46]
Anya Cain
And so I, I would, I would say like without knowing more information now, I can understand why it ended in acquittal, but I could change my mind if I really dug into it either way or become more convinced that he was definitely innocent. So I, I guess trying to be open minded in this year of 2025 and not necessarily come down on one side or another too quickly, but noting what concerns me. So. Yeah, anyways, so that's Westchester for you.
- [35:11]
Kevin Greenlee
Keeping skepticism alive in 2025.
- [35:14]
Anya Cain
You're welcome everybody. No, I just, I, I don't know. I don't. I feel like there's been so many cases where I'm like, okay, I think this. And then I'm like, oh, wait a minute now. I looked into it and I totally think something else. So let's go to Ohio. Our neighbor WKYC is the source on this one. And this is a case I thought might interest you, Kevin.
- [35:36]
Kevin Greenlee
I kind of, I know in your notes that I'm looking at here, it says for Kevin.
- [35:40]
Anya Cain
For Kevin. This is, this is. I try to pick cases that would be interesting to you and be kind of. Kevin. Cases. And this deals with some legal wrangling. So a young woman named Sydney Powell from Akron was convicted of murdering her 50 year old mother, Brenda Powell. She beat her in the head with an iron skillet and then stabbed her around 30 times in the neck. And this occurred in 2020. And so in 2022, she pled not guilty by reason of insanity, I guess to start out with. Can you tell us about that defense? What does that mean? How like, are you, what are you, what are you, what are you saying when you're saying I'm not guilty by reason of insanity?
- [36:26]
Kevin Greenlee
Basically, if you are out of touch with reality and don't seem to have an understanding that what you're doing is wrong.
- [36:36]
Anya Cain
So like I had to kill my mom because she turned into a dragon and Satan was controlling her.
- [36:42]
Kevin Greenlee
Yeah.
- [36:43]
Anya Cain
So you, in that situation, you, you're acknowledging you killed her, but you are so far removed from reality that you thought that something else was going On. And so you're not guilty not because you didn't do it, but because you're insane. Yes, that is the legal definition.
- [36:57]
Kevin Greenlee
You don't even have an understanding that what you did was wrong. It's not a situation where, if a person can be diagnosed with any mental illness whatsoever, that's a get out of jail free card.
- [37:09]
Anya Cain
So if someone's diagnosed with schizophrenia and then they get mad at their girlfriend and they lie in, wait for her in her garage, gun her down, then dispose of the gun, live two years without worry, you know, without worrying about it, and then they're caught. Just because they have a mental illness does not mean that they can argue that.
- [37:28]
Kevin Greenlee
Or if you have depression or something.
- [37:29]
Anya Cain
Like that, it has to match the circumstances. And one key thing is you have to. If you try to get away with it, that means you know what you did was wrong. So you have to kind of go outside and be like, don't worry, everyone. I took care of the dragon issue. And then people will be like, okay, that person's insane. It's. It's. The. The definition of insanity in a legal setting is not always in line with mental health professionals, nor frankly should it be. Amy. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't think mental health is always a. Should always be used as an excuse in situations like this, but it is very specific. So I guess in this situation, she had a lot of defense witnesses say that she was insane, she was, like, severely mentally ill, and. And didn't know right from wrong. And a jury, though, ultimately convicted her two counts of murder. And then there were also assault, tampering with evidence. And this conviction got appealed. So what they were arguing was they wanted to present some witnesses that would have rebutted the prosecution witnesses testimony that she was kind of faking it, malingering. A witness for the state said that she was exaggerating her severe mental illness and that she said it made her unable to function, but that wasn't really true. And they also kind of went after the defense experts for their methodology. And then the trial court after the defense was like, well, we want to bring in another witness to kind of go back against. The state's witness said, no, you can't do that. They'd already said, like, we basically have heard so much testimony in this matter, we don't need to hear anymore. What are your thoughts on that?
- [39:21]
Kevin Greenlee
It's very important if someone has presented evidence against you, that you have the opportunity to rebut it no matter what.
- [39:30]
Anya Cain
Even if we've Heard hours and hours of all of this. Still got to do it.
- [39:34]
Kevin Greenlee
Yeah. And also I think it is important for judges to err on the side of protecting the rights of the defendant. In the Richard Allen case, I think there were occasions where Judge Goll erred on the side of protecting Richard Allen's rights, and that was for the best because it's a way to make an ultimate verdict more appeal proof. So things like this don't happen. If you think, well, whatever rebuttal testimony they have to offer. Yeah, I don't think a jury would buy it. And it's stupid. You can't just say, well, let's not have it, let's have it. Let's see what the other person who is an expert in this matter has to say and then let the jury reach a conclusion. And if they conclude that the expert was unqualified or is just doing hogwash, they can still convict the person of the crime.
- [40:26]
Anya Cain
That's what I think. I mean, sometimes people who are laypeople watching a trial or following it, they're like, why does the defense get to do all this? But the reason is you want to give the person the best possible shot at having a fair trial where they left it all on the table, essentially left it on the field, let's all in the field. And that doesn't mean anything goes. That doesn't mean, you know, come in and say aliens actually did it. But it does mean that with things like this, it seems reasonable to be able to. Even if you heard a lot of testimony already already, it seems reasonable. If someone's raising that level of doubt on someone's mental health claims, that someone come in and say, no, actually this is why it's right. I, I, I think that that would have been fair. So you can understand why subsequently this conviction was overturned.
- [41:14]
Kevin Greenlee
Yes.
- [41:16]
Anya Cain
So she, she also appealed based on, you know, it, it, the trial shouldn't have allowed gruesome photos and testimony and that that was rejected. So was, it was against the weight of the evidence and you know, amendments of the Ohio Constitution, they were like, no, but in terms of not letting this one witness, this rebuttal situation to go on, they, they did agree with that.
- [41:43]
Kevin Greenlee
And I'd say that's also normal when a defense attorney, or more, more specifically when an appellant attorney files a case. Yeah, just make as many arguments that you think are plausible and including, oh, I think this word, it goes against the weight of the evidence. I mean, what have you got to lose? You just make all of your arguments and see what works and what doesn't?
- [42:04]
Anya Cain
You like, you know, you shoot like scattershot. So then one might hit the bullseye. Yeah. And so it seems like now she might get, I guess, a second trial if a conviction is overturned, I imagine unless the state declines to press charges, then a second trial would be incoming.
- [42:22]
Kevin Greenlee
Yes.
- [42:22]
Anya Cain
So she's cleared that hurdle. We've talked about how second trials are often somewhat rare. And so this would be a situation where I think we would anticipate one, especially if the case in the crime was that brutal. I don't see the state necessarily just being like, well, go out of society.
- [42:40]
Kevin Greenlee
It's probably worth noting that if you are a defendant and you've been convicted and you file a successful appeal, that doesn't raise double jeopardy because the verdict was tossed out because of your actions.
- [42:54]
Anya Cain
No. Yeah, that's. You just get a second shot of possibly getting an acquittal.
- [42:59]
Kevin Greenlee
Yeah. And at the top of the show, of course, you talked about a case where, like, I had, what, five trials?
- [43:05]
Anya Cain
You said, like, I had five trials. Two convictions, two mistrials, one acquittal.
- [43:10]
Kevin Greenlee
Here in Indiana, there was a famous case where I believe a man named David Cam was charged with the murder of his family. Didn't he get three trials?
- [43:16]
Anya Cain
Three trials.
- [43:17]
Kevin Greenlee
He was ultimately acquitted.
- [43:18]
Anya Cain
It was what conviction? Conviction, Both thrown out, acquittal. So that can happen. It's not. That doesn't violate double jeopardy, but once you get an acquittal, it's over.
- [43:28]
Kevin Greenlee
It's over.
- [43:30]
Anya Cain
So now let's go to New Jersey. This is a very disturbing case. In my source for it was New nj dot com. This is a. A man. This was actually a. An appeal that did not work out. So we have to go back to 2019 for this one. A man named Kenneth Saul. He. He worked with a young woman named Carolyn Byington. We actually did another case involving Anita Buyington, and we interviewed her sister, Christina Buyington, But I.
- [44:01]
Kevin Greenlee
No relation, as far as we know.
- [44:02]
Anya Cain
I don't believe there's any relation here. But, you know, he's. He's a young man, you know, he's a man with. I think he was, you know, in his 30s at this time. He had a wife. He had a very young baby child. And there was this marketing firm that he worked at, Engine Us, and that is in West Windsor, New Jersey. And Byington worked with him there. She was a very bright and caring young woman, like, very much beloved by people in her life. She graduated from Lafayette College in 2015, majoring in anthropology, sociology and international relations. International affairs rather. She was very into volunteering and was just great. And so Saul became, I guess, obsessed with her. And he took that obsession to a kind of a horrific degree. Now Byington was a market research project manager. He was an accountant. He managed while she was at work, to steal her key, get a copy of it, and then break into her apartment in Plainsboro, New Jersey in May of 2019 and put cameras there so he could stalk her and watch her. Which is just horrifying. I mean, like just such a violation of one's privacy. There was obviously something like incredibly wrong with this person when, when Carolyn came back to her apartment, she didn't notice these. But then he decided he wanted to get more angles of her. So he went back on June 10, 2019 and he was installing more cameras when she returned unexpectedly on her lunch break. And she instead, I mean, he, the judge would note this later, but he could have just run out or pushed her away or, you know, kind of dealt with the consequences of his actions, his horrible actions. But instead he decided to attack her. This was an incredibly brutal, brutal attack, a sustained attack. She fought for her life. He ended up killing her with a screwdriver, which is just again, horrible. Like you going back expecting to be safe in your apartment and your co worker is there who, I mean, just awful. So employees who worked with him immediately noticed a strange behavior change. He, he, he seemed, he seemed different after this. He was ultimately arrested and charged with the case. But this doesn't end there. He went to one of his fellow inmates well before his trial and offered to pay them $15,000 to do one of the following things. One, stage a similar murder of a young attractive woman and leave a note saying, I also did the Buyington murder. Or two, go to two case witnesses or possible early persons of interest. You know, I don't know what that means. Maybe like a boyfriend, maybe and kill them, but make it look like a suicide and leave a note taking responsible for the responsibility for the Byington murders. Do you know what that reminded me of?
- [47:29]
Kevin Greenlee
What?
- [47:30]
Anya Cain
The Craig case out of Colorado where we had this James Craig dentist, you know, thinks he's a criminal genius who is like, you know what I'll do? I'll hire someone to kill the detective on the case. Like, yeah, that's going to work out and gets busted immediately and hit with a solicitation charge on top of everything. So I've always said, I, I don't really trust inmate witnesses all the time. There can be incentives for people. That's not the case here because the incent, the inmate ended up wearing a wire and recording this guy saying like, yeah, let's do this. I want to have this scheme to get away with it. So after that whole thing came out, he ended up pleading guilty to everything you mentioned.
- [48:17]
Kevin Greenlee
He appealed. What was the basis of the appeal?
- [48:19]
Anya Cain
He appealed the sentence. Ah, so he ended up appealing the sentence. And we, we saw this.
- [48:26]
Kevin Greenlee
What was the sentence?
- [48:28]
Anya Cain
He was sentenced to 55 years to life.
- [48:30]
Kevin Greenlee
Okay.
- [48:33]
Anya Cain
Because yeah, it was 55 year prison sentence. Yeah, it looks like 55 year prison sentence. And the appellate court. So he, he did this on the, on the basis of the search warrants in the case and, and the sentence and the appellate courts ruled against him. So they said the evidence is supported by the probable cause and the prison terms were completely fair with what he did.
- [48:55]
Kevin Greenlee
So out of luck next.
- [48:57]
Anya Cain
Exactly. Just what a scumbag. I mean like, you know what I mean? Like, I just, I don't know. People who kill other people, women, children, other men for their own weird six sexual stuff just disgusts me. I just like, I don't know, I just feel like that's the lowest type of person. So that's just, that's just my take.
- [49:17]
Kevin Greenlee
Going out on a limb there.
- [49:18]
Anya Cain
Well, I just, I don't know, it pisses me off. It's like this young woman had her whole life ahead. Now her family has to suffer and she doesn't get to be around anymore because this guy couldn't like, you know, I don't know, figure out his own.
- [49:28]
Kevin Greenlee
Plus he had a wife and a young child.
- [49:31]
Anya Cain
Yeah, people I just like, they're just lower than animals, people who do this. So now let's go to another case that I picked out for you. My sources for this were the Trace NBC Chicago and Philly Burbs.com out of Pennsylvania. And I. You always seem very interested in self defense cases. Cases where you say someone didn't go out to kill somebody, but that's what ended up happening.
- [49:54]
Kevin Greenlee
What, what's this one?
- [49:55]
Anya Cain
This is a controversial and complicated one. So it involves 41 year old Maurice Bird as well as 37 year old Steven Strasberg. Mr. Byrd is African American. He is black and Steven Strasberg is white. That's important because of some of the stuff that goes down here. So they had a history of problems with each other there. In 2022 alone, there were like three police responses to the area. Strasberg lived in an apartment above Byrd's Barber Shop, Razor Reese's Salon and Spa and in Hatboro, Pennsylvania. And so police basically would come out. It seemed to arise because Strasburg had been told by a landlord he could use a parking space that Bird thought was his by right for his customers. So they have this dispute. It kind of keeps going and police keep getting called. Police keep telling them to stop contacting each other, stop talking to each other, just stop it. Which obviously doesn't seem like super effective when there's like an ongoing issue like that. So one day Bird calls the police, calls 9111945. He says that Strasberg is coming up and verbally assaulting him. And also not just that, but getting very aggressive and using racial slurs, notably the N word, and is getting in his face, grabbing his shirt, looks up like he's about to punch him, kind of holding his fist back. I believe there were kind of maybe some instances perhaps that came out later where he did punch him. And the dispatcher then hears five gunshots. A pause, two more gunshots. So bird kills Strasberg with his 9 millimeter Smith and Wesson semi automatic, a gun that he is legally allowed to own. He's got a valid permit. That is his gun. You know, there's nothing illegal about it. Bird has now been charged with first degree murder, third degree murder, and possessing an instrument, I, I guess of, of, of death or whatever. And people are noting like, you know, I don't know, like could this be a case of standing your ground? Is it, is this a, is this a viable self defense? I know people in this Trace article that kind of goes into some death were talking, you know, defense public defenders and defense attorneys were saying like it seems like a pretty clear self defense case. If Strasberg is being so aggressive and is also, you know, kind of so erratic that he's like yelling racial slurs, you know, kind of doesn't really speak to someone who's super rational or you know, gonna do anything good. But what the Montgomery county prosecutor who's taken this on, Samantha Coffin, is saying that, you know, Byrd threatened to shoot this guy. He was unarmed, he threatened to shoot him before dialing 911. He kind of egged on the conflict. He didn't retreat the counter to that, is that Bird is a veteran and has a leg injury where maybe it would made it harder to retreat than someone who maybe didn't have that. So I don't know. What are your thoughts? It's complicated.
- [53:17]
Kevin Greenlee
I guess I would have to take a close look at the self defense statute in Pennsylvania, you said, in order to determine that if the self defense statute says, well, you have a valid claim of self defense, if A, B, C or D is met, and if you look at this case and it is not clear if A, B, C or D is met, then it doesn't feel like the prosecutor has a choice, but they have to file. And if you only get to claim stand your ground. If you have tried to retreat and this man didn't, then ultimately it's a question for the jury.
- [54:00]
Anya Cain
The defense has characterized it as Strasberg chasing Byrd around and Byrd trying to get away from him at some point. But I have not reviewed the video, so I don't know either what the TRACE article defined. Pennsylvania stand your ground law saying a person acting lawfully in a public space who is attacked by someone without a weapon must first attempt to retreat before using deadly force. So a lot of this does come back to the timing. Personally, this is my own bias, probably speaking, but a, you know, a veteran who owns his own business and is sort of being attacked on racial grounds like Mr. Bird probably has my sympathy more than. More than Strasberg in this situation, who seems to have been the aggressor here in this instance at least. And again, you know, is getting in his face and possibly throwing punches and whatever. I would, you know, it feels like at some point things kind of fall under the, you know, play stupid games, win stupid prizes, you know, motif. I guess I don't feel like Mr. Bird going to prison for the rest of his life really benefits the community in any situation. Although I don't necessarily. I think you're right. Based on the facts, the prosecutor's office may not have much of a choice, although you would kind of hope in some instances there might be some kind of, like, deal to be worked out where, you know, it acknowledges the seriousness of what happened. A human life was taken and Strasberg was a father. You know, I mean, he. He had a life. Even if he was, you know, doing things we can all disagree with, maybe acknowledging the life lost without necessarily wrecking another life sort of needlessly. That's just my take. I don't know, just.
- [55:44]
Kevin Greenlee
Just your two cents.
- [55:46]
Anya Cain
Yeah, I think it would really depend on, like, a lot of the videos and things like that. But again, I mean, if you're. If you're going.
- [55:54]
Kevin Greenlee
It seems to be a question of facts, and questions of facts are ultimately intended to be settled by the jury based on what you've told me, which, if I understand correctly, comes largely from the perspective of defense attorneys, if that is accurate and True. And I was a member of that jury. I would probably be disinclined to convict. But that still doesn't mean that the prosecution is necessarily wrong or incorrect to file the charges.
- [56:23]
Anya Cain
Yeah, it's serious enough. And you don't want.
- [56:27]
Kevin Greenlee
It's a human life.
- [56:27]
Anya Cain
You don't want vigilante justice either. Right. I mean, that's. That's. That's a mess. But, you know, I think it does. It does feel like, you know, I don't know, there's this kind of indications that this might be a sympathetic defendant where people, you know, might kind of take that into consideration. I don't know what's going to happen, but it's definitely tragic. One interesting thing is I know one of Strasberg's cousins was out in the press talking about how Bird was really the aggressor here and whatnot, and would threaten him in notes and show him his gun. But if that's the case, and I don't know why Strasbourg would, like, go and pick a fight and, like, pretend to be about to punch him a few times. That seems pretty stupid, but. Yeah, but I guess, honestly, a lot of these disputes are just ultimately stupid. I mean, people getting killed over a parking space at the end of the day is, like, not. Not a good thing. And sometimes I wish there were. I don't know. Like, there needs to be. Like, people need to be, like, if neighbors are feuding to that point, there almost needs to be some kind of, like, way that. That's diverted or mediated before it gets to this point. Because I. I see that we see this in a lot of cases where there's just these stupid property disputes that somehow end up in people lying on the ground dead.
- [57:41]
Kevin Greenlee
And we cover the Randy Small case. Wasn't that mailbox?
- [57:45]
Anya Cain
Yeah.
- [57:45]
Kevin Greenlee
And it's like, maybe arguing over a mailbox ended with a man getting killed, Another man spending decades in prison, maybe.
- [57:50]
Anya Cain
Just pushing them into some sort of small claims court situation would. Would have been the way to go. Or like, kind of figuring it out some way, some sort of mediation feels like, you know, you don't want to, you know, one person has their life ruined, one person's dead.
- [58:05]
Kevin Greenlee
Right.
- [58:07]
Anya Cain
Anyways, well, that is all.
- [58:10]
Kevin Greenlee
Time to make the awkward transition from serious matters of life and death to matters of nonsense of apparel.
- [58:18]
Anya Cain
Yeah. And so advertising strategies do it. Do you like shirts? Well, we've got a shirt for you. This is the murder sheet people T shirt. It's got our logo on it. It's a. It's a beautiful Black T shirt with our logo on it and it says Murder Sheep people to designate you as a murder sheet person. And, you know, presumably if you're listening to the show, that's how you consider yourself. That's how you view yourself in this world. And you can purchase it@murdersheetshop.com and our patrons on Patreon get a free shipping discount.
- [58:56]
Kevin Greenlee
That's the best you can do.
- [58:59]
Anya Cain
What the hell was the problem with that?
- [59:01]
Kevin Greenlee
Well, shouldn't we, like, tout them a bit?
- [59:03]
Anya Cain
Like, oh, oh, excuse me.
- [59:05]
Kevin Greenlee
Like, like after Christmas, please.
- [59:07]
Anya Cain
Want me to say something ridiculous so.
- [59:08]
Kevin Greenlee
You can make fun of me about it after Christmas? Maybe you didn't get all the gifts you wanted. Maybe, maybe somebody didn't give you what you really, really wanted, but maybe somebody gave you a little bit of cash, a little bit of that folding money. I think you can get what you wanted by just. It's not too late. It could be a late Christmas gift to yourself. Order the little kitties, the little children. The little children may be disappointed they didn't get their murder sheet T shirts. It's not too late.
- [59:36]
Anya Cain
Okay, let me.
- [59:37]
Kevin Greenlee
You don't have to. You don't have to just buy T shirts for the Christmas season. You can buy T shirts year round.
- [59:42]
Anya Cain
Let me just emphatically say this. Children should not be listening to this program. We're talking about some very heavy stuff, some very disturbing stuff. So if you're a kid and you're listening, come back later, okay? Like when you're older. This is not appropriate.
- [59:56]
Kevin Greenlee
Anya thinks it's good business sense to discourage potential new listeners.
- [59:59]
Anya Cain
Yeah, I don't want to traumatize children by talking about murder. Look how we turned out. We got into true crime way too early and now look at us. Look at us.
- [60:07]
Kevin Greenlee
We're happily married, having a very pleasant life. Yes. So maybe that could happen to your child if you got them interested in food slime early on.
- [60:19]
Anya Cain
Or they could be very disturbed and upset by it. And I don't think we want to encourage children listening to murder shows. But anyways, even if you don't want.
- [60:29]
Kevin Greenlee
A child to listen to a murder show, you can still buy them a shirt. You need to clothe the children.
- [60:35]
Anya Cain
You're so weird.
- [60:37]
Kevin Greenlee
You don't want the children to go out there just shivering in the cold. Is that what you advocate? Do you want children shivering in the cold on the streets of this great nation?
- [60:45]
Anya Cain
Your ad stinks. Your ad is ridiculous. My ad was competent, professional, got the information out there. You just went in and Just blew it.
- [60:54]
Kevin Greenlee
Oh, and I should also mention that a terrific listener. I don't know if he wants to be named in this context. He was going to go and get a T shirt from this website, and when he clicked on the link, he got a message saying, if you, if you go to this site, your computer will explode and millions will die. And that's not true.
- [61:15]
Anya Cain
I don't know why that happened. We're asking, we're asking are the people who run the website.
- [61:20]
Kevin Greenlee
When I went there, I did not get that message. But if you go there and get a crazy message, if you have, like.
- [61:25]
Anya Cain
An ad blocker maybe, or something like that, maybe it just kind of pops up. But there's nothing wrong with the website, you know, that we know about. I don't think Millie's you.
- [61:36]
Kevin Greenlee
Unless you got in there and did.
- [61:37]
Anya Cain
Something with a code because you secretly hacked it.
- [61:40]
Kevin Greenlee
Anya wants to hoard the shirts forever.
- [61:42]
Anya Cain
What am I, like, a weird shirt dragon? That's not true. I don't want to hoard the shirts forever.
- [61:48]
Kevin Greenlee
So for, like, Christmas, anya gave me 10 shirts and I gave her 11 shirts. That was our holiday.
- [61:56]
Anya Cain
That was our gift of the Magi situation. What a mess. I, I where you brought this, you brought the advertising off the rails. That's on you, sir.
- [62:11]
Kevin Greenlee
Well, I'm filled with regret and contrition.
- [62:16]
Anya Cain
And a love for these shirts, which.
- [62:18]
Kevin Greenlee
I like to pass on to the listeners. What a great way to start the new year with a new garment. Isn't that a great way? It's a new year. I'm going to treat myself, and I'm going to get a new garment.
- [62:32]
Anya Cain
Yes, it, it, treat yourself. That's what 2025 is all about. Yeah, and you look, and you can.
- [62:40]
Kevin Greenlee
You can wear this shirt in December, you can wear it in January, all the months in between.
- [62:44]
Anya Cain
We'll never tell you not to wear the shirt, no matter what month it might be.
- [62:49]
Kevin Greenlee
Anya might.
- [62:50]
Anya Cain
Well, for our adult listeners, they can do what they want. I'm just concerned about you trying to, like, hawk this to kids when it's.
- [62:56]
Kevin Greenlee
Like, again, when you talk about listeners is like, is Murder sheet after dark.
- [62:59]
Anya Cain
No, it's not Murder sheet after Dark. What would that even be?
- [63:05]
Kevin Greenlee
Oh, I have some ideas. Maybe we can talk about it later.
- [63:08]
Anya Cain
Between the sheets. That's our sexy podcast. No, no, there is no sexy podcast. Just, this is. It's all this. This is Kevin's doing. This is all your fault.
- [63:20]
Kevin Greenlee
Let's end this.
- [63:21]
Anya Cain
Hit the button, get the hell out of here.
- [63:23]
Kevin Greenlee
Thanks so much for Listening to the Murder Sheet if you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us@murdersheetmail.com if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.
- [63:44]
Anya Cain
If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com/murder sheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www.buymeacoffee.com murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.
- [64:07]
Kevin Greenlee
Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the web@kevintg.com if you're looking to talk with.
- [64:19]
Anya Cain
Other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet Discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.
- [64:40]
Kevin Greenlee
Before we wrap up this episode, can we take just a moment to say a few more words about our great new sponsor, Acorns?
- [64:48]
Anya Cain
Yeah. Thanks so much to Acorns. Acorns, remember, when you support our sponsors, you're supporting us and our sponsors make it possible for us to do this job. So we really appreciate them.
- [64:56]
Kevin Greenlee
We love our sponsors.
- [64:57]
Anya Cain
Absolutely. Acorns is a terrific investing app. It's the perfect thing for somebody who wants to get started with their personal finance journey.
- [65:06]
Kevin Greenlee
That can seem daunting.
- [65:07]
Anya Cain
It. It is daunting. I. I'm so not financially minded. For me, it's always really hard to get started with something like this where you're like, what am I doing? But Acorns sort of takes the guesswork out of that. It gets you started and it will essentially help you take control of your financial future. You can get set up pretty quickly and it allows you to start automatically. Saving and investing that money can help you, your kids, if you have a family, your retirement. And you don't need to be rich. You don't need to be an expert to do this. It's very simple. And you can start with only $5 or whatever change you have. It's not like you need to put in some massive payment. So it is a, it's, it's a great fit for people who are starting out, but they want to take the next step and improve themselves financially and make their money work for them more. So if you're interested, head to acorns.com msheet or download the Acorns app to start saving and investing for your future today. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns tier one compensation provided investing involved risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. View important disclosures@acorns.commsheet can we talk a.
- [66:18]
Kevin Greenlee
Little bit before we go about quints, a great new sponsor for us? I think in one of the ads that we've already done for them, we talked about the compliments I'm getting on my jacket. I know you're a very modest woman, but can we talk about the compliments you're getting on the Quint's products you wear?
- [66:36]
Anya Cain
Yeah, I've got two of their Mongolian cashmere sweaters. They're a brand that just does this sort of luxurious products but without the crazy costs. Really. Well, they are. They give you Italian leather handbags. They do like European linen sheets. You have a really cool suede jacket. And I really like the way I look in my sweaters. I like the way you look in your bomber jacket. It looks super cool.
- [67:01]
Kevin Greenlee
You've gotten a lot of compliments when you go out wearing these sweaters.
- [67:04]
Anya Cain
I think I have, yeah.
- [67:05]
Kevin Greenlee
And deservedly so.
- [67:07]
Anya Cain
Also, like, I'm one of those people. My skin is very like, you know, like I kind of sensitive. So when it comes to wearing sweaters, like, you know, sometimes it's something's too scratchy, like it really bothers me. These are so soft. They're just like very delicate and soft and make it. They're wearing them is lovely because they're super comfortable. You're not, you're not. It's not one of those things where you're like, you buy it and it looks great, but it doesn't feel that great. They look great. They feel great. Yeah. I really love them. And you got, you know, your cool jacket. I mean that's a little bit of a. You're. You're the guy who like wears the same thing all the time. So this is a bit of a. A gamble for you, a bit of a risk. You got something a bit different.
- [67:42]
Kevin Greenlee
I do wash my clothes.
- [67:44]
Anya Cain
I know you wash your clothes, but I mean, you're filthy.
- [67:48]
Kevin Greenlee
You made me sound awful, so. No, I wash my clothes.
- [67:51]
Anya Cain
But you don't really.
- [67:52]
Kevin Greenlee
I launder them.
- [67:52]
Anya Cain
You don't really experiment with fashion that much is what I'm saying. So this is a little bit out of the norm for you, but I think you really like it and it looks good.
- [67:59]
Kevin Greenlee
Thank you. Great products incredible prices.
- [68:02]
Anya Cain
Quincy.
- [68:03]
Kevin Greenlee
Com.
- [68:04]
Anya Cain
There you go. So you can go to Quince.com msheet and right now they're offering 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. So that's Quince.com msheet that's Q U-I-N C E.com M S H E-E-T before.
- [68:22]
Kevin Greenlee
We go, we just wanted to say another few words about Via. This is really a wonderful product. I think it's really helped both of us get a lot better rest.
- [68:30]
Anya Cain
Via is pretty much, I guess you'd say, the only lifestyle hemp brand out there. So what does that mean? It means that they're all about crafting different products to elicit different moods. Kevin and I really like their non thc CBD products. Specifically Zen really helps me fall asleep some. Zen can really just kind of help me get more into that state where I can relax and, and fall asleep pretty easily. And, and they're just, they've been such a wonderful support to us. They're a longtime sponsor. We really love working with them and they really make the show possible. I'm going to say this like, you may not realize this, but when you support our sponsors, you're supporting us and it kind of makes us impossible for us to do the show. So if you or one of your loved ones is interested in trying some of this stuff, you're going to get a great deal. It's very high, high quality, high value.
- [69:17]
Kevin Greenlee
Anya, if I wanted to get this discount you speak of, what do I do?
- [69:21]
Anya Cain
Okay, if you're 21 and older, head to viahemp.com and use the code msheet to receive 15% off. And if you're new to Via, get a free gift of your choice. That's V I I a hemp.com and use code M Sheet at checkout. Spell the code M S H E E T. And after you purchase, they're going to ask you, hey, where did you hear about us? Say the murder sheet. Because then it lets them know that our ads are effective and it really helps us out.