The Cheat Sheet: Speed and Skulls

Summary

Murder Sheet: The Cheat Sheet – Speed and Skulls

Podcast: Murder Sheet
Hosts: Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee
Date: March 27, 2026
Episode Theme:
This episode of The Murder Sheet dives into a set of widely varied cases across the UK and the US, ranging from infamous murders, tragic law enforcement misconduct, prosecution controversies, and an unsettling cold case involving a human skull. Áine and Kevin blend serious discussion with their signature banter, examining not only the facts but also the systemic issues surrounding each story.

---

Main Topics and Key Discussion Points

1. The Case and Death of Ian Huntley (United Kingdom)

Timestamps: 04:15–11:23

• Summary:
  Áine details the notorious Soham murders committed by Ian Huntley in 2002, his history of sexual violence, and his recent killing in prison (March 2026).
• Key Points:
  • Huntley murdered Jessica Chapman and Holly Wells, two 10-year-old girls, and was later convicted.
  • He was attacked multiple times in prison, the latest resulting in his death after life support was withdrawn.
  • His girlfriend, Maxine Carr, gave him a false alibi and was convicted for perverting the course of justice, though she now has a new identity.
  • The case attracted outrage, particularly as Huntley managed to secure school employment despite past accusations.
  • Áine expresses strong feelings about the lack of transparency and accountability, especially regarding Carr’s release and name change.
• Notable Quote:
  • “You helped a rapist pervert try to get away with murdering two kids. I think there's nothing lower than that other than doing it, you know, other than doing the actual murders.” (Áine, 10:40)
  • “It's now, I guess in a way, kind of come to an end because the guy who perpetrated it is gone. And you know, good riddance.” (Áine, 11:18)

---

2. California Highway Patrol Officer Facing Murder Charges

Timestamps: 14:48–21:33

• Summary:
  Kevin discusses the troubling case of Angelo Rodriguez, a California Highway Patrol officer charged with second degree murder after a reckless crash and failure to secure the scene, leading to the deaths of four people.
• Key Points:
  • Rodriguez was driving at 130 mph without cause, crashed, and failed to protect the accident scene.
  • Several minutes later, another car crashed into the unattended vehicle, resulting in a fatal fire that killed four individuals.
  • Key issues raised: conduct of law enforcement, levels of responsibility, and legal implications when actions (or inaction) directly result in loss of life.
  • Áine and Kevin debate the complexities—intent, duty, and the severity of charges.
• Notable Quotes:
  • “I find those interesting, don't you?” (Kevin, 15:32)
    “I really do, yeah.” (Áine, 15:35)
  • “If he had taken appropriate steps to control and manage the scene, the second accident would not have occurred, and those four people would still be alive today.” (Kevin, 19:45)
  • “It's bizarre. It's a very troubling and weird story.” (Áine, 21:29)

---

3. Victims’ Families Betrayed by Prosecutor Conduct (Florida)

Timestamps: 23:02–31:14

• Summary:
  Kevin reports on a controversy from Florida, where the mothers of two murder victims (Derek Lamott Gloucester Jr. and Brandon Rashad Mills) discovered that their children’s killer had confessed and received a plea deal—without their knowledge or input—while the prosecutor allegedly helped the perpetrator and his family.
• Key Points:
  • The killer, William Brown, confessed but was never charged or convicted for the teens’ deaths.
  • Victim families were kept in the dark about confessions, plea arrangements, and a prosecutor’s unorthodox relationship with Brown.
  • The state demanded nearly $2,000 for the mothers to access case files.
  • Áine and Kevin criticize the lack of transparency, communication, and victim support within the justice system.
• Notable Quotes:
  • “This leaves these two mothers feeling betrayed. They … feel their rights have been violated and they're filing a suit over it.” (Kevin, 25:40)
  • “This goes beyond simply just them not keeping them informed. ... To me, it's like it, it should be all done in a way that don't leave families feeling further victimized by the system.” (Áine, 29:23)
  • “When I see a lawsuit like this being filed, it seems to be at the very least a huge failure on the part of the prosecutor's office.” (Kevin, 26:09)

---

4. The Mystery of the Garbage Bag Skull (Wisconsin/Minnesota)

Timestamps: 31:18–36:47

• Summary:
  Áine presents the story of a decades-old mystery: a human skull found in a garbage bag along the St. Croix River in 2002, traced through genealogy to an elderly woman who died of natural causes, and recently leading to the arrest of a funeral director.
• Key Points:
  • Troop of Boy Scouts found the skull in 2002; police initiated a DNA Doe Project investigation in 2021.
  • The remains belonged to Alice Fillin (later Peterson), a 91/92-year-old woman.
  • Benjamin Carl Hanson, funeral director at the time, was arrested in 2025 for theft and hiding a corpse, as he was in charge of the body and had a reported breakdown around the same time.
  • Áine underscores the disturbing aspect of body desecration, especially as Hansen’s mental health may have contributed, yet accountability is still needed.
• Notable Quotes:
  • “Obviously this man should have never been working in the funeral home world and probably should have been... getting extensive mental health treatment.” (Áine, 32:50)
  • “Glad it's not a murder. Glad Alice was just, you know, was able to pass away peacefully as an older lady, but also unfortunate that her body was treated with such, you know, desecration...” (Áine, 36:33)

---

Memorable Moments and Banter

• Playful Host Banter about Listener Preferences and “State Love”
  • “I love many of the states.” (Kevin, 01:19)
  • An ongoing joke about which states Kevin actually likes.
• Discussion on Old TV Shows and Obligations of "Good Citizens"
  • “I think all of us as good citizens have an obligation to be aware of 1970s television programs.” (Kevin, 16:21)
• Meta-Commentary on Police Ride-Alongs and Getting Pulled Over
  • Stories interwoven about getting speeding tickets, and the irony of pulling over a judge’s son during a ride-along. (39:50–42:37)
• Lighthearted Reflection on Social Anxiety and Dogs
  • “I think the longer he lives with us, probably the more like us he'll become.” (Kevin, 38:52)

---

Additional Noteworthy Quotes

• “You would hope he would have training to how to respond in a situation like that. To control the scene and prevent a future tragedy.” (Kevin, 20:35)
• “There needs to be some kind of system... to have those conversations and set expectations and have accountability and openness with a victim's family, I really think that is an important part of the job.” (Áine, 27:13)
• “Maybe that's a time to go to a lawyer, explain what happened, and take the consequences. Maybe a deal could be worked out if you're honest about it.” (Áine, 36:13)

---

Conclusion and Takeaways

Timestamps: 45:00–46:58

• Driving Safety Message:
  “Everybody stay safe and drive. Don't speed. Just be careful. That's really dangerous...” (Áine, 45:09)
• Lighthearted Sign-Off
  • Extended banter about birthdays, bonnets, and podcasting nervously from home.
  • Reminder to contribute tips or join the show's Patreon for deeper engagement.

---

Summary Table of Cases & Segments

| Segment | Jurisdiction | Case/Issue | Theme/Focus | Start Time | |-----------------------------------------|-------------------|-----------------------------|-----------------------------------|------------| | Ian Huntley’s death in prison | UK | Soham murders (2002) | Child murders, prison justice | 04:15 | | CHP officer murder charge | California, USA | Angelo Rodriguez | Law enforcement misconduct, fatal crash | 14:48 | | Prosecutorial betrayal of victims’ fams | Florida, USA | Derek Gloucester Jr., Brandon Mills | Justice system transparency | 23:02 | | Skull in garbage bag – funeral director | Wisconsin/Minn. | Alice Peterson (Fillin) | Cold case, funeral misconduct | 31:18 | | Light banter about travel, states, tickets | All | N/A | Host chemistry, personal stories | Various |

---

For Listeners

This episode offers both in-depth true crime discussion and relatable, often humorous interludes. With clear, candid commentary on judicial and law enforcement failures, Áine and Kevin challenge listeners to think past the headlines. Their discussions of transparency, victim rights, accountability, and the unpredictable human side of crime and investigation set this episode apart.

Transcript

[A]

If you work in university maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place, from H VAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock. So your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRAINGER visit grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[B]

I'm Anya, and today we're going to talk about a range of cases from the United Kingdom, California, Florida, as well as Wisconsin and Minnesota. Content warning. This episode contains discussion of murder and violence, including the murder and sexual assault of children. So today on the Cheat Sheet, we. I'm going to be doing two cases that were recommended to me by listeners, and I'm not.

[A]

Nobody recommends cases to me. They always recommend cases to you. Always want to make your job as easy as possible.

[B]

Yeah, that's definitely what's going on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're resentful of our listeners.

[A]

No, I love our listeners. I love the states of this country. I love everything.

[B]

No, you don't love the states of this country. I'm the only one who does.

[A]

I love many of the states.

[B]

No, you hate some states, including states that our listeners are in. They're sitting there right now in the states that you hate. You hate those states.

[A]

No, I ran the numbers. I. I got deep into the data, and the only states I don't like are ones where we have no listeners.

[B]

Oh, interesting. Okay, now he's backtracking because the controversy got too great. All right, shall we go ahead?

[A]

Let's go ahead.

[B]

My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.

[A]

And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

[B]

And this is the Murder Sheet.

[A]

We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases.

[B]

We're the Murder Sheet, and this is the Cheat Sheet. Speeds and skulls. It's.

[A]

I know, Anya, you're always obsessed with the Chunnel, which is a way to travel between England and France. But what is your favorite way to travel from here to London or to England, as you're about to do? Is there an underground labyrinth or way to go across the ocean underwater?

[B]

I. No, I've never. I've never been to England. And I've also. I. I don't know any of any tunnels. I hope this isn't the first episode somebody's listening to, because they're gonna be very confused.

[A]

Well, I. I. To the new listeners. Anya is really obsessed with the channel. She talks about it a lot.

[B]

That's not true at all.

[A]

So, so now that you, you, you're. We're starting over in, in, I keep on saying London. We're starting in the uk. I was just curious if there's any special transport, any fun transport that you like to use when you're going over there?

[B]

No.

[A]

No. Dirigible?

[B]

No. Okay. Flying contraption.

[A]

What about like a biplane?

[B]

Yeah, I could. I know I'd be too scared to go in one of those. Just a normal plane.

[A]

What about like a drone?

[B]

I'm going to be flying on a drone to go to England.

[A]

You tell me.

[B]

I think I'll just, I'll just, I'll just use the Internet. Well, we do appreciate our United Kingdom and English and listeners abroad in general, but we do appreciate you guys listening and recommending cases because it's always an interesting way to learn about some, some different cases. And a listener actually recommended this case. It's an older case, but there's been some recent developments. And my source for this one was the BBC. And this concerns the horrific case of Ian Huntley, a convicted murderer who recently died. On March 7, 2026, he was murdered himself. He was killed in a well. He was attacked in prison and sustained head trauma from a makeshift weapon at the HMP Franklin ON, on February 26, 2026. He was left on life support for a while, but then it was switched off and he died on March 7th. Even found. Yeah, like lying in a pool of blood in this workshop. And the BBC reported that a killer named Anthony Russell, who's 43, was suspected of attacking him. This is not the first time Ian Huntley was attacked in prison. He had been attacked actually a number of times before and when you learn what he did is not, it is not hard to understand why that was. Ian Huntley was convicted of murdering two young girls, Jessica Chapman and Holly Wells, in 2002. And this is a very haunting case. And my understanding is, I mean, these are two 10 year old girls, first of all. And in addition to that, it's, it's horrific, but there's also a lot of lingering unknowns, which I think sometimes that makes people so uneasy, understandably, myself included, because it's like you can kind of fill in the most horrific possibilities. So Holly and Jessica were good friends. They were at a family barbecue near the small town of, in the small town of Soham, Cambridgeshire. And that's near Cambridge. And this is Sunday, August 4, 2002. And at some point they leave Holly's house and they are looking to buy sweets, I think from a vending machine. Not too far away, they pass by Ian Huntley's house and the thing about him is that he was living with his girlfriend, a woman named Maxine Carr. Carr was the teaching assistant, so she was known to both girls. Maxine Carr was actually away in Grimsby at the time, but basically using that connection. And it's believed that Ian Huntley was able to lure them into his home. And at some point, you know, around, I think they, I think they like left around 6pm and then maybe like 45 minutes later, Jessica's mobile phone goes off and we don't really know what happened to them. Like we don't know what he did to them. And that's I think maybe the, one of the most troubling things about this. So, you know, hour, you know, a few hours later, 8pm the parents noticed that they have never come back from the sweets, you know, shopping expedition. And it's past Holly's curfew. They go on a search. 9:55, I think they're reported missing officially and they, their, you know, their photo becomes kind of famous. They kind of like, people are like following this. It's a scary thing where you have these like, you know, adorable 10 year old girls disappear. It's very suspicious, it's very sinister. People want to know what happened, can they be recovered safely, what's going on? Meanwhile, Ian Huntley starts doing a lot of press around this. He starts doing interviews, you know, in the days after they're missing. He's kind of acting like he's a concerned, you know, neighbor and saying all this weird stuff. Then the girls bodies are found. August 17, 2002, 13 days after they went missing, three people found their charred remains and decomposed remains in an irrigation ditch In Suffolk, about 10 miles away from Soham. And the next day police came out and said, hey, we believe that these are the girls. But it was positively formalized with DNA identification on August 21st and Huntley is, is arrested. And you know, again, this is after giving a lot of very bizarre interviews. So even though again, they don't really quite know what happened. Police concluded that the girls had likely been as asphyxiated and that this was likely sexually motivated. And they had good reason to believe that it's because Ian Huntley was a pervert who had abused multiple underage girls sexually. Many of them did not go forward to police or complain. This is in the 90s. And then in 1998, he was charged with raping a 18 year old young woman. Those charges were dropped. Then he was accused of doing that to another 18 year old woman. Charges were dropped. He was accused of indecently assaulting an 11 year old in 1997. There was another rape case brewing in 1999, but Maxine Carr gave him an alibi. And let's go back to Maxine Carr. This is a woman working with children, a woman who is teaching. She gave this guy a fake alibi and that she was also found guilty of conspiring to pervert the course of justice. By doing that, she's ultimately been released from prison and has a new identity now. I don't know why. I mean, I don't know. I'm not going to tell another country how to do their laws. It's just, I feel like you should have to live with that shame, you know, what you did to those kids, it's not like something where it's like you made a bunch of bad decisions as a really young person and like shoplifted or like got into drugs. I mean, you helped a rapist pervert try to get away with murdering two kids. I think there's nothing lower than that other than doing it, you know, other than doing the actual murders. So, so Huntley, despite all of this, was able to kind of be free in society and despite, and also, you know, he actually had a job with a, with a school. So I mean this is, I mean it obviously can, you know, caused a lot of outrage when this all came to light, but it's a horrible story. What happened to these two young girls is just absolutely horrific and it just, it's now, I guess in a way kind of come to an end because the guy who perpetrated it is gone. And you know, good riddance. Enough with over complicating your wardrobe. Stop buying trendy cheap stuff that doesn't last. Curate your style with high quality pieces that you can mix and match. Our wonderful sponsor Quince can help you out with that.

[A]

They are all about accessible luxury. These are the premium everyday essentials that you can wear all the time, even as the seasons change.

[B]

We love their comfortable, lightweight Mongolian cashmere sweaters. They're perfect for spring. We're also excited to try out their linen bottoms and shorts and European jersey linen T shirts.

[A]

Not only will you be getting high quality clothing for less, it's also important to know that Quint only pairs with ethical factories and artisans that set rigorous standards for craftsmanship. They save you money by cutting out the middlemen.

[B]

Quince's wonderful silk pieces have been some of my go to this year. I love their black washable silk dress and black washable silk skirt. They elevate my style while being so easy to wash and maintain and pair with other clothes.

[A]

Right now go to quince.commsheet for free shipping and 365 day returns. That is a full year to build your wardrobe and love it and you will. It's now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to Q U I n c e.com msheet for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com msheet when we started the Murder

[B]

Sheet, we didn't really know if podcasting was even going to work out for us in the long run. Like what if no one listens to us? That would be awkward. I'm really glad we tuned out those dads and went for it because it's been an absolute dream come true. But the kind of uncertainty we face is what stops people from betting on themselves, chasing their dreams and starting their own businesses.

[A]

For all of you out there looking to kickstart your own dreams, partnering with Shopify is one of the best decisions you can make. It gets you on the right track from day one. They take the uncertainty out of business.

[B]

Shopify is your one stop commerce platform that supports millions of businesses around the world.

[A]

Shopify makes you efficient and fast. You can upload new products, improve existing products. Shopify's AI tools can help you with product descriptions, page headlines, and better product photography.

[B]

And don't worry about nobody buying your products. They help you get the word out. Shopify puts the power of a whole marketing team behind you. You can create email and social media campaigns with just a few clicks.

[A]

Shopify supports you with inventory management, international shipping, processing returns and more. Whatever the challenge, they're there to make things quicker and more convenient. It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.commsheet Go to shopify.commsheet that's shopify.commsheet

[B]

when you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Grainger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Grainger offers millions of products in fast, dependable delivery so you can keep your facility stocked Safe and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. That's what I have to say.

[A]

Fair enough.

[B]

Thank you to the listener who recommended it.

[A]

Well, I want to go all the way from England, all the way across, all across the states, all the way to the west coast of our country, California. And my source for what I'm about to talk about as the Guardian and I always find it interesting when we come across these cases where a person ends up getting charged with murder and they didn't wake up that morning intending to kill someone, but they did something that resulted in a person's death and now they're facing consequences for it. I find those interesting, don't you?

[B]

I really do, yeah.

[A]

So this is the case of a 24 year old guy named Angelo Rodriguez. He was a California Highway Patrol officer. And I'm sure this is before your time, Anya. There used to be a TV show about these guys called Chips.

[B]

Yeah, I've seen MeTV, but I never watched it.

[A]

A couple of cool guys riding around California highways on their motorcycles, fighting crime, I guess.

[B]

Did you watch it?

[A]

No, but I knew it existed.

[B]

I know it existed because you watch me TV a lot lot. You watch some Hogan's Heroes and then you know, there's like trailers for other stuff or there's like, hey, watch this too. But I never watched that one.

[A]

I. I think all of us as good citizens have an obligation to be aware of 1970s television programs.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Obviously, that's, that's one of my credos. But, but this man was a California Highway Patrol officer and he's been charged with second degree murder. And what he did was one day, for some reason, when he is in his vehicle, he was driving for at 130 miles per hour. Oh, wow, that's really, really fast. If you're not someone who drives and aren't aware of such things, 130 miles per hour is really, really fast.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Doesn't seem to be a reason, at least not on the record, as to why on earth he was driving so fast. So he runs into a car and he, you know, kind of pulls over. At some point he makes a call. Oh, there was a, a police vehicle was involved in an accident. But he doesn't say, you know, it was my vehicle. And then he just kind of leaves.

[B]

Wait, he leaves the scene?

[A]

Yeah, he took. And before he left, he didn't do anything to control the scene or do the things you would expect a law enforcement Officer. To do in that situation. I, I, I'm no expert on these things, but I imagine one of the first things you would do after you make sure everybody's okay is you, you, you would set up some sort of like, boundary or markers around the scene to alert oncoming motorists. Hey, be careful here. There's something here you, you don't expect you, you know, to avoid a few tracks. He doesn't do that. And so, tragically enough, a few minutes later, a car crashes into the, the vehicle that Mr. Rodriguez ran into. And now there, it catches fire. And people, people died, Four people died in that collision. And so they are charging him with murder because of his failure to take responsible action in this matter. Second degree murder. What do you think?

[B]

Wow. I mean, yeah, this qu, I mean, this, the, what you just outlined really raises a lot of questions about the circumstances of what he was doing or thinking. But I mean, the tragic loss of

[A]

life and he actually moved his car, you know, off the road and just turned off the lights and then he leaves.

[B]

Where'd he go?

[A]

Unclear.

[B]

Was he, like, drunk or high or something? I mean, because that's the thing that comes, like, not that that makes a difference. I mean, that's worse if you're, Was he on duty?

[A]

Uh, that, that's not clear to me. But it does say in court documents there was no reason for him to be driving so fast at the time.

[B]

So it's not like he's responding to an emergency.

[A]

And I think it's also clear that if he had taken appropriate steps to control and manage the scene, the second accident would not have occurred, and those four people would still be alive today.

[B]

And I'm reading that they believe there were no serious injuries sustained from the first crash. It was the second crash that then killed everybody. I mean, it's a complicated case. Right, because, you know, I mean, he definitely left them vulnerable in this situation. Even though it's the second driver who ultimately killed everybody. Yeah, I mean, I find it very troubling. I guess I'd be curious to see what the defense says. I'd be curious to see where this plays out and if there's any explanations for any of this. But, and it's kind of hard to imagine the why of some of this. You know, like, it's hard to be like, oh, here's here would be a reason that fully explains it. It just seems very random and. Yeah.

[A]

And again, as someone involved in law enforcement, you would hope he would have training to how to respond in a situation like that. To control the scene and prevent a future tragedy. Certainly more training than a person like you or I would have. But there seems to be no reason whatsoever why he was driving so fast, which caused the first accident.

[B]

Yeah, and that. And that's bad enough. I mean, that's bad enough. But what's. What's worse is then not handling it properly. Yeah. Like, because maybe you. You speed and you do that and then at least you're then protecting people afterwards like you messed up. Okay. Don't make it worse by then just kind of, you know, abstaining from doing what you're supposed to do. I don't know. It's bizarre. It's a very troubling and weird story.

[A]

So should I go now to Florida? Yeah. This is a crazy itinerary. So the uk. I'm doing a lot uk. California, Florida. Where's your last state?

[B]

It. It technically two. It's Wisconsin and Minnesota.

[A]

So you are going to cause our travel coffers to be completely.

[B]

You are. You're going from California to Florida, sir. You know, east coast, west coast. I don't know what you're complaining about. At least Minnesota and Wisconsin are near each other.

[A]

Well, you know what? I like going from coast to coast in this great land.

[B]

Oh, now you're justifying it.

[A]

I. I love all the states and I think it's a pleasure to.

[B]

I think it's really wild that. Yeah, you got this tremendous backlash. You were totally cancelled by the listeners. You were sent all of this hate mail by the people whose states you. They. That they felt you might not approve of. And now you're stealing my bit where I say I love all the states and now you're acting like you're the friend of all the states. Sir, you are no friend of the states.

[A]

Isn't it interesting that Anya refers to her saying she loves all the states as a bit. That. That certainly suggests that it might not be wholly sincere. So I just know that for the

[B]

record, I'm a famous friend of all the states. Everyone, anyone will tell you that. Go talk to anyone from any state. They're going to say I'm a good friend of the state.

[A]

What are you talking about?

[B]

What are you talking about? All right, go.

[A]

My source for this is the Miami Herald. This involves the murder of Derek Lamott Gloucester Jr. And Brandon Rashad Mills. This is a tragic story that happened all the way back in January of 2009, where a guy named William Brown and another guy who since passed away kind of spray bullets into a crowd of teenagers and 18 year old Derek and 16 year old Brandon were both hit and killed. Mr. Brown later gets sentenced to 25 years for still other murders he's believed to have done. Even though he confessed that he was involved and was responsible for the shootings of these two people. And the mothers of those two victims were not told that he had made this confession. They were not told that he had a plea bargain basically. And they were not told that the article phrases that this way, that they were not told that Mr. Brown, the murderer had an unorthodox relationship with a prosecutor named Michael Von Zamt. And that prosecutor helped things like he helped Mr. Brown's mother move and help make sure that some of her rent was paid and was really going to do everything he could to help this man and his family. Meanwhile, the mothers of the murder victims aren't told there's been a confession. And now when they say, well, we'd like to look at the files in the case so we can ease our own minds that everything was looked at. And we can also ease our own minds that we can further understand why this deal was made, Florida is saying, well, sure, you can have some of it, but you have to pay $1,831 first. And this leaves these two mothers feeling betrayed. They haven't been treated sympathetically. They feel that the murdered man's family, the murdered boy's families, is not being treated as well as the family of the murderer. And they feel their rights have been violated and they're filing a suit over it.

[B]

It sounds like their rights have been violated. That's disgusting. I would be willing to donate to their cause, but it sounds like even if they paid all that, they wouldn't get all the records.

[A]

Yeah, I remember a few years ago we had on a gentleman who talked about cold cases and how he wanted there to see a situation where there would, it would make it easier. He wanted to see a situation where it'd be much easier for relatives of victims to access files in the case after a certain amount of time has passed. I, it just doesn't seem rational to me to make victims parents pay close to $2,000 for this sorts of things. And also when I see a lawsuit like this being filed, it seems to be at the very least a huge failure on the part of the prosecutor's office. Because you would think at some point before things got to this stage they could have sat down with these two women and laid out and explained as much as possible about their thinking and what happened and why they believe it happened. What do you think?

[B]

Yes, I think, you know, listen, I understand in general that police and prosecutors, especially in bustling metropolitan areas, are extremely busy and time strapped. But there needs to be some kind of system, whether that's empowering victim services or whether that's carving out time or having this be part of the expectations of the job. To have those conversations and set expectations and have accountability and openness with a victim's family, I really think that is an important part of the job. But this goes beyond simply just them not keeping them informed. I mean, this seems like. So, so technically, just technically, this guy, William Brown, has not been convicted or charged of these deaths, is that right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But he is in it indicates that he is the shooter.

[A]

Yes. He has made statements to that effect which, okay, I've been found to be plausible.

[B]

So, yeah, that's very concerning. I mean, I, I don't even know. And, and I, I don't, it's vaguely alluded to, but a possible relationship, not sure what that means between a prosecutor and this guy's mom is like, really, I don't know. That seems really bad. That's. We talked recently on, on a different episode about like, you know, conflict of interest. Right. Yeah, that would be one, I would imagine, right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

If that is true. Yeah. If there is no chance of prosecution in a case, my strong belief is that information should be released to the families. Could you argue or carve out certain instances where that would not be appropriate? Maybe. But as a general rule, I think it would be good. If things are not going to get prosecuted, if there's no case to be made, then what's the point in keeping it secret?

[A]

Yeah. And I want to be clear. The unorthodox relationship is said to be between the prosecutor and the shooter. What he did for the mother is he helped her relocate to somewhere else and then helped arrange it so the police would pay rent for her.

[B]

Oh, I'm sorry. But that's still weird. I mean, I don't know, I guess, like, you get, you know, like he's an informant and, you know, you know, you know, he's being helpful to you or whatever. Like, I get that, but I, I, I, to me, it's like it, it should be all done in a way that don't leave families feeling further victimized by the system.

[A]

Yeah, the, the, the families say they feel betrayed, and I say the Miami Herald has done wonderful work on this case.

[B]

So, yeah, they, if you want more information, you should je, Definitely check out their series, which looks like it's called Deal with the Devil.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, it's very upsetting because, you know, like, I don't know, I get that it's on some level that there is, you know, there's compromises and things that need to be made in. In, like, in prosecutions, in policing. Like, sometimes you have to work with people who have done bad things in order to get answers, but I think you should. Should not be doing so at the expense of these moms who lost their children. You know, there's ways to. I think you just have to be above board with people and, you know, and. I don't know, I think a lot of victims, families that I've talked to would rather police and prosecutors just be upfront with them and, you know, like, like early on of, like, things like that they would rather. Or say, hey, we have nothing to update, you know, like, rather than just ghosting them. And I think the ghosting happens a lot. And it's. It's something that I think needs to be addressed and needs to be. Like, there needs to be. There needs to be understanding from families that police are working, like, a lot of cases and maybe overburdened, but there needs to be acknowledgement from police and prosecutors that the families are in a lot of pain. This is the most important thing to them, and treating them with some care is a good thing. So very upsetting.

[A]

Very upsetting indeed. I think you have one more case for us.

[B]

I do. This is not a murder, but, well, spoiler, I guess. This is Wisconsin and Minnesota. And thanks again to the listener who recommended this one. This is predominantly. The article they sent me was from a website called Bring Me the News. And it kind of. It was pretty conversation.

[A]

That's what you say every morning.

[B]

Yeah, I like. I like that name.

[A]

I get out of bed, Anya lounges around and says, kevin, ring me the news.

[B]

And I also did some searching around newspapers.com to kind of look into this a bit further. So, yeah, the newspapers were the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, accessed via Newspapers.com so this involves the Saint, an investigation from the St. Croix County Sheriff's Office. And it's this ongoing mystery that's lingered on. And at this point, it kind of raises some questions. So back on October 21, 2002, a troop of Boy Scouts were hiking along the St. Croix river in Somerset Township in St. Croix County, Wisconsin. They find a garbage bag. They look inside. There's a human skull in there. Okay, so that's horrifying. I feel bad for all those kids to have to see that And St. Croix County Sheriff's office is left with a mystery. What happened? Why is there a skull in a garbage bag? You know, that's something that can certainly conjure to mind, like, is this a murder? That's what I would think.

[A]

That's what I would think, yeah.

[B]

Well, the good news is it wasn't, but it's still really creepy. The St. Croix County Sheriff's office went to the DNA DOE project back in 2021. They wanted to figure out who does this skull belong to. And they're able to put together a family tree and the name Alice Fillin comes up. And she was found to have then changed her name to Peterson. And this was an elderly woman, she's either 91 or 92. I've seen both reported. And she died on July 23, 2001 from an aortic aneurysm at the region's hospital. So natural causes. She was not murdered, she just died at the hospital because she was very old and had this aneurysm. Her ashes were given to a woman who had been nannied by her and spread on a family farm. Okay, so nothing like criminal there. But then how the heck does her skull end up in a garbage bag? Well, In December of 2025, a 57 year old man named Benjamin Carl Hanson of Bay Port, Minnesota was arrested and charged with theft and hiding a corpse. So police had been digging into how the heck this skull could have gotten there. And they found that at the time of Alice's death, Hansen worked as a funeral director for the Simon Net Funeral home in Stillwater. And they found talking to employees a couple of things. The employee said that Hansen would have been the only employee with access to the prep room in this funeral home and that he was in charge of Peterson's body. And that in 2001 he quote, went off the deep end and was admitted to Regions Hospital, which is seemingly, I, I don't know if it's the same name or if it's the same hospital or if it's just part of a chain but like the same place she was at. So he, you know, he apparently he had been dealing with some pretty serious mental health issues and you know, he's been arrested and now they're saying maybe the, you know, maybe the cremation, like do they even know that the, you know, her, you know, survivors even got her ashes? It's not even clear. But he's been arrested and he's facing charges around this. It's a very deeply disturbing case. You know, having Somebody decapitate a dead body and then put their skull into a garbage bag and dispose of it in this way to the point where it's found by children. Obviously this man should have never been working in the funeral home world and probably should have been, you know, getting extensive mental health treatment. If that is an ex, you know, if that is the reason he did that, then I certainly feel sympathetic. I think if you have severe enough mental health issues that can kind of cause issues beyond your control. But also, you know, you would hope that after someone's treated that they would at least admit to what they had done so it wouldn't cause like a two decades long mystery where people think there might be a murderer running around. You know, like, maybe that's a time to go to a lawyer, explain what happened and take the consequences. Maybe a deal could be worked out if you're honest about it. You know, like, I feel like they, you know, have some accountability regardless of why this was done. But. Yeah, disturbing. Glad it's not a murder. Glad Alice was just, you know, was able to pass away peacefully as an older lady, but also unfortunate that her body was treated with such, you know, desecration in the aftermath of her death. But, you know, we'll see, I guess, what happens. Maybe Hansen has a good defense for this, or maybe he's saying maybe it was one of the other employees. I don't know. So, I mean, we can't necessarily condemn him before he's convicted, but we can certainly say this is a, you know, matter of concern, so.

[A]

A very interesting case.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah. So do we have any appearances for you to talk about?

[B]

I don't think at this moment. I think we're all appearance doubt for the moment.

[A]

We'll be appearing at our own home.

[B]

Yeah, we'll be. Come and see us at any hour. No, don't come and see us. I'm joking. Yeah, we'll be at our house, sitting around. Yeah, we're gonna come in and find a couple of the listeners sitting in chairs like, waiting for us to speak. No, I know you guys wouldn't do that to us.

[A]

I think we'll be making some occasional appearances at McDonald's where we'll be eating our big arches for the adoring crowd. So delusional.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

What other appearances do we have planned?

[B]

We'll be appearing on the streets with our dog Nicholas, who, you know, is getting definitely a lot better with his behaviors. It's always bad when you're talking about behaviors.

[A]

Yeah, plural. He met for the first time my parents came and what you need to know about my parents is they're very nice, non threatening people. And this big tough dog who always struts like he's king of the world, terrified of them.

[B]

He's like, who are these people in my house? And then he's kind of, you know, quietly going up to them and licking them tentatively. And then he, and then he got, he warmed up to them. But it was just funny at first because at first he was just like, I've been home invaded. Help me. He's so wimpy.

[A]

What did he think was gonna happen?

[B]

I don't know what he thought. Yeah, like they took over our house. It's weird. I didn't think he was shy with people, but I think we've kind of seen that as he's been with us longer. I wonder if just being in the shelter environment made it so. Like, he was used to seeing people in and out, but now he's, his underlying personality is more like nervous.

[A]

I, I think the longer he lives with us, probably the more like us he'll become.

[B]

So he's scared of people? Were you saying we're scared of people?

[A]

More scared of people. I wouldn't be surprised if he launched a podcast.

[B]

Yeah. When we invite friends over, Kevin just hides in the corner. It's pretty, it's pretty sad. He looks at them meaningfully and looks at me. What are they doing here? I don't know. I guess we are kind of antisocial. But, you know, I, we, we ran into some very nice neighbors who were petting him and he was very intimidated. He was kind of sitting on my feet and kind of like looking away. At one point I felt bad. And we didn't make him like, say hi to them.

[A]

I don't, you know, because he can't speak.

[B]

Well, we don't want to force him. Well, I'm saying we don't want to force him to go. And they were very nice about it. They weren't forcing themselves. They were kind of just doing it in a passive way. And so it was good. But he eventually kind of warmed up to it and liked it. But for a minute there, he was just all like, I'm shy. He's a cutie.

[A]

And we should have mentioned that when we went to Ohio a couple weeks ago, again, we had a great time. I was so eager and excited to get there that I drove, I think a little bit faster than I should have, and I got a traffic ticket entirely, entirely my fault. But talking about that with you reminded me of an incident where I was. When I was in law school, I had the opportunity to hang out with the judge for a summer. And the judge said, hey, I've got some friends in law enforcement. You should do ride alongs with them. And one guy in particular, he had a reputation. He would go out and basically hunt for speeders and hunt for traffic in fractions. And this was legendary. People would say there was a time when this guy once had like five or six cards lined up, that he'd pulled them all over simultaneously just to give them tickets.

[B]

What a nut.

[A]

Yeah. People spoke about him in story and song. Just this mystical figure. And he wasn't scheduled to work this particular day, but he says, yeah, I'll come in and work a shift. He'll give you that experience. And, you know, obviously when you get a ticket, it's really annoying, but I found when I was writing with this guy, there was like something like, yeah, let's go.

[B]

You were into it. You were like, let's do it.

[A]

I was into it.

[B]

Let's get him.

[A]

Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. And you know, you get.

[B]

So no one should give Kevin power ever.

[A]

And so we're out there again. The only reason we're doing this is because the judge said, yeah, why don't you work this day and have Kevin come along? And one poor guy is going just a little bit over the speed limit, but this guy, yeah, let's get him. And we get him, and he pulls him over and he comes back to the car with the guy's license, and he looks at the license and the name on the license, and I see his face fall and he says, oh, no. And the person he had pulled over was the judge's son.

[B]

That's like a bad comedy.

[A]

Yeah. And the only reason that guy got pulled over was because the judge wanted me to have this experience. And he looks at me and I don't know what he would have done if I wasn't there, but if he had said, well, it's the judge's son, let's just let him go. He looked bad to me. I don't know. But he gave the guy a ticket, so that was that story.

[B]

Wow, that's ironic. I love that. That sounds. I'm glad you had an interesting experience, though.

[A]

Yeah, I enjoy doing those ride alongs. And if anybody. I don't know what the procedure or what the possibilities for ride alongs are where you are, but if you ever do have the Opportunity. It's a wonderful experience. I've done ride alongs back then with the Indiana State Police and also with the Columbus Police Department.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Have you ever done any ride alongs?

[B]

No, no, I never have.

[A]

And I also did some sort of ride along on Lake Monroe, but I told that story long ago.

[B]

Yeah, that was, that was a little PG13.

[A]

And you've only been pulled over once and you were just kind of a

[B]

frazzled mess who didn't get a ticket.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Unlike you who were Mr. Sneaky Attorney. And when they ask you, this is Kevin's like, never admit wrongdoing. And they said, they said to Kevin, well, where you were speeding, they said,

[A]

did you have a reason to be speeding?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I said, I wasn't aware I was speeding. Because if you say, oh yeah, here's my reason, you're basically saying, yes, I'm definitely guilty, throw the book at me.

[B]

But that can be. They could be trying to trick you. You don't ever know what you're going to get because they could be trying to trick you into admitting it and then they're going to throw the book at you. Or they could be, you know, if they're impressed by your reason, they might be like, ah, it's okay, don't worry about it.

[A]

I don't think he would have been impressed if I said, I'm just, I'm

[B]

going to a book signing. Excuse me. Yeah, I don't think that would have worked. We just really want to go to Ohio.

[A]

And your big strategy, we're going to

[B]

see the Warren G. Harding Memorial.

[A]

Your strateg strategy was basically to panic when you got pulled over. You were very frazzled. He said, ah, I don't even know where my license is, sir. And he felt sorry for you and let you go.

[B]

That works a lot of time. No, that was not a, that was not me being. That was not me putting on anything. That's just my natural state of being is being a disaster at all times. And when people see that, sometimes they're annoyed and sometimes they feel bad for you. And this, this, this particular gentleman felt bad for me. I guess.

[A]

So do you have any anecdotes or stories to tell or.

[B]

No, I got nothing going on.

[A]

Do you have some aphorism or something for us to think about or something to ponder as we go into this weekend?

[B]

Nope, I don't. I just. Everybody stay safe and drive. Don't speed. Just be careful. That's really dangerous. We. It's the one good thing about you getting pulled over is it's made me watch my speed more, too. So we're being very responsible. It's, you know, sometimes you get pulled over and it stinks. But you gotta remember that, like, we shouldn't be speaking now.

[A]

A few months ago, we talked a lot about my birthday. If, hypothetically, another one of us had a birthday coming up. Is that something that should be mentioned in the program? Would you want to keep that under wraps?

[B]

I don't. I don't care. Why would it.

[A]

Why would it has a birthday coming up?

[B]

Yeah, not like a really big birthday person. I don't really care.

[A]

Her birthday falls on Easter.

[B]

Yes, it's Holy Day.

[A]

So we have to have something set up because, like, half the day you have to wear your Easter bonnet, and the other half the day you have to wear your birthday bonnet.

[B]

I don't have a birthday bonnet. People have been concerned about your bonnet talk, that you have some kind of weird bonnet fetish. I just want to say, for the record, he does not. That's not what this is. He just thinks the word bonnet is funny. And we hear sometimes Bing Crosby's Easter bonnet song. It's not what it sounds like, but

[A]

also, Anya looks really good in a bonnet.

[B]

You say bonnet, but you just mean a hat. It's just a hat.

[A]

Well, isn't a bonnet a particular style?

[B]

I mean, I mean, I guess technically,

[A]

but, like, I think you wouldn't celebrate Easter by wearing, like, an Abraham Lincoln style hat. You'd look ridiculous. The people behind you would be outraged because you'd be blocking their view. It's a particular style of hat, perhaps. Thank you. I've won the point. So let's get out of here.

[B]

Jeez.

[A]

Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email [e-mail] if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[B]

If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com murdersheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www.buymeacoffee.com murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.

[A]

Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the [e-mail].

[B]

if you're looking to talk with other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.