The Cheat Sheet: Violence and Vibes

Summary

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Murder Sheet: The Cheat Sheet – Violence and Vibes

Episode Date: July 24, 2026
Hosts: Áine Cain (A) & Kevin Greenlee (B)

Episode Overview

This episode of The Murder Sheet ("The Cheat Sheet: Violence and Vibes") explores a range of true crime stories: from a deeply tragic case of postpartum psychosis and family annihilation to a discussion about extradition and the death penalty, culminating in a feel-good, heartwarming tale of compassion and (possible naïveté) in the face of true crime. Throughout, hosts Áine (Anya) Cain and Kevin Greenlee provide between-case banter, legal analysis, and their characteristic blend of dark humor and empathy.

Content warning: This episode discusses suicide, murder, and the deaths of children and infants.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Banter, Listener Emails, and The "Kane Train" (03:01–10:14)

• The episode opens on a light note, with Anya and Kevin joking about a listener-submitted photo of a “Kane Train” in Cleveland and the (fictional) global “Kane Train conspiracy”.
• They humorously address podcast dynamics and audience feedback, riffing on running jokes about Anya being too talkative and Kevin being her “puppet.”
• Personal anecdotes on their upcoming visit to a ventriloquism convention add levity and set the stage for heavier content.

2. Case 1: The Duxbury Tragedy – Lindsay Clancy and Postpartum Psychosis

[15:04–26:55]
Location: Duxbury, Massachusetts
Source: Boston.com
Synopsis:

• Lindsay Marie Clancy, 35, a labor and delivery nurse, killed her three young children (Cora, 5; Dawson, 3; Callan, 8 months) by strangulation with exercise bands and attempted suicide, resulting in paralysis.
• Clancy had a documented struggle with postpartum mental health, had sought intensive outpatient treatment, and was briefly hospitalized.
• The crime occurred after she sent her husband, Patrick Clancy, to pick up takeout, a point which the prosecution frames as evidence of premeditation.

Key Insights & Discussion:

• Kevin highlights that legal insanity hinges on whether Clancy knew her actions were wrong, citing historical cases where the insane did not recognize the morality of their actions (18:32).
• Anya emphasizes the nuanced line between severe mental illness and criminal responsibility, referencing the rarity of postpartum psychosis and the systemic lack of postpartum support for mothers.
• There is speculation (including Clancy's digital searches and notes about her feelings toward her children) about her state of mind and premeditation.
• The societal response: Anya notes much public sympathy for Clancy, especially among women familiar with postpartum struggles (24:17).
• Discussion on the challenges and limitations of current research into postpartum psychosis and mental health care for mothers (24:17–26:55).

Notable Quotes:

• “If you are truly insane... If you’re legally, truly, legally insane, you think what you’re doing is correct.” – Kevin (18:32)
• “Maybe the systemic issues, and this is a tragedy where she’s almost a victim, too, because she did basically the worst thing a parent could do and now has to live with it.” – Anya (24:17)

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3. Case 2: Houston Family Murder-Suicide – The Mitchell Family

[26:59–29:22]
Location: River Oaks, Houston, Texas
Source: NBC News
Synopsis:

• Matthew Mitchell, 52—a prominent restaurateur and owner of Travelers Table—killed his wife, Ty My, and their 8-year-old daughter and 4-year-old son, before taking his own life.
• The murder-suicide shocked the local community; the family were well-known and had appeared on "Diners, Drive-ins and Dives".
• Anya uses this case to highlight the phenomenon of family annihilators—usually men—and reiterates the prevalence and warning signs of intimate partner violence.

Notable Quotes:

• “It can happen to anyone and it’s important to take action before it’s too late.” – Anya (28:19)

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4. Case 3: Texas-Italy Death Penalty Extradition Standoff

[29:22–33:35]
Sources: Lehigh Valley Live
Synopsis:

• A Texan man facing the death penalty for allegedly killing his pregnant girlfriend flees to Italy, which refuses extradition due to the possibility of execution.
• U.S. prosecutors insist death penalty is not certain, seeking extradition. Italy is unmoved without more concrete assurances.
• Kevin questions whether this dynamic gives Italy undue power over American justice.

Key Insights:

• Anya expresses discomfort with a foreign country (Italy) having a say in American justice, while recognizing this is a practical reality of extradition treaties.
• The discussion broadens to the challenges and burdens of pursuing death penalty cases in the U.S.

Notable Quotes:

• “At some point, it just seems a little ridiculous is what I’m saying.” – Anya (33:26)
• “But if they’re trying to be like, actually, what about 25 to life? I mean, at some point...” – Anya (33:21)

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5. Case 4: The Kindness (and Risk) of Strangers – Adrienne Biermann and the Fugitives

[34:17–48:52]
Sources: Washington Post
States: Ohio & Maryland
Synopsis:

• Adrienne Biermann, a 49-year-old Ohio woman with a history of homelessness and loss, takes in two homeless women who turn out—unbeknownst to her—to be wanted for murder (the killing of Vanessa Henderson's mother).
• Biermann’s extraordinary generosity includes offering them her home and money, even leaving them alone in her home while on a retreat—and only discovers their identities after a friend does some online sleuthing.
• Biermann immediately contacts police but remains compassionate throughout, concerned for all involved.

Memorable Moments:

• Biermann's text to the fugitives: “I promise you, I’m not a serial killer... y’all can do some laundry, have a home cooked meal, play some Pac Man. I have a Pac Man machine. Lol.” (38:44)
• Upon finding out the truth, Biermann says: “I never got a bad vibe from them. Maybe I need to get my viber fixed.” (44:22)
• Kevin repeatedly jokes about listeners’ “warming heart cockles”, and Anya playfully worries about Biermann’s safety due to their true crime skepticism (noted at 41:17).

Key Insights & Takeaways:

• While the risks she took were considerable—even “kind of crazy,” per a quoted sociologist—Adrienne represents genuine human kindness in a genre (and world) too often marked by violence.
• The case sparks reflection on true crime’s effect on public trust and paranoia, and a reminder that compassion still exists.

Notable Quotes:

• “I know what it’s like to not have a dime to your name. Having something in your pocket makes you feel human.” – Biermann, as quoted by Anya (40:09)
• “What a delightful woman.” – Kevin, re: Biermann (44:44)
• “There’s kind and then there’s like, let random people into your house kind.” – Anya (48:33)

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Memorable Moments & Running Jokes

• The “Kane Train” Conspiracy: Playful banter about a Cleveland “Kane Train” and listeners’ emails. (03:13)
• Ventriloquism Festival: Kevin teases Anya about her passion for ventriloquists and being his “dummy.” (05:15–09:07)
• Recurring “Cockles Warming” joke: Kevin, with tongue-in-cheek, warns that Biermann’s generosity might “warm the cockles of your heart,” a phrase Anya finds endearing but odd. (34:21; 43:07–44:44)
• Meta-Podcast Humor: Multiple jokes about feedback (Anya should “talk less,” Kevin is “just her puppet”), and calling back to these ideas throughout. (06:42–08:44)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |:-----------|:----------------------------------------------------------| | 03:01 | Listener antics: “Kane Train” & podcast banter | | 10:14 | Roadmap, introductions, and episode theme | | 15:04 | Lindsay Clancy/Duxbury Postpartum Fatalities discussion | | 26:59 | Houston’s Mitchell Family Murder-Suicide | | 29:22 | Texas-Italy death penalty extradition | | 34:17 | Story of Adrienne Biermann and wanted fugitives | | 43:07 | Biermann discovers her guests are wanted for murder | | 48:52 | Wrap-up, banter, and closing reflections |

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Final Reflections & Advice for Listeners

• Anya: “Maybe we can all be a little bit more like Ms. Biermann going forward. Within reason.” (50:03)
• The episode closes with full-circle storytelling, ending as it began—with playful banter about “Spencer” references and storytelling structure.

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Summary in a Nutshell

This episode of Murder Sheet encompasses the worst and best of humanity: harrowing cases of mothers who kill and men who destroy their families, public policies that intersect precariously across continents, and, finally, a story of kindness that prevails in the shadow of true crime. Anya and Kevin ground even the darkest tales in humility, humor, and empathy, leaving listeners with both food for thought and a reminder to seek out the good among us—just, perhaps, with a little more caution than Adrienne Biermann.

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Transcript

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It's the thing that you do the thing on. We run the business on Shopify. Start your free trial on shopify.com mom,

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can you tell me a story? Sure. Once upon a time, a mom needed a new car. Was she brave? She was tired mostly, but she went to Carvana.com and found a great car at a great price. No secret treasure map required. Did you have to find a dragon? Nope. She bought it 100% online from her bed actually. Was it scary? Honey, it was as unscary as car buying.

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Could be.

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Did the car have a sunroof? It did, actually. Okay, good story. Car buying. You'll want to tell stories about. Buy your car today on Car Funnel. Delivery fees may apply. Hi, I'm Anya, and today we're going to be doing a cheat sheet where we go, I believe, from Massachusetts to Texas to Texas by way of Italy and more. Content warning. This episode contains discussion of suicide murder as well as the murder of small children, including babies.

[B]

I think, Anya, you were excited this week because we got.

[A]

There's been a lot of intrigue. Oh, sorry. What were you gonna say?

[B]

Someone sent us an email of something.

[A]

I don't want people sending us emails. Guys, knock it off. You know I'm just kidding. What are we talking.

[B]

Someone sent us a picture of a cane train.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. I flipped out when I saw that. All aboard the cane train. Who? What is going on? And this is in Cleveland. Apparently, it's a bus that says all. Or maybe a train that says all aboard the cane train. I'm scared.

[B]

We've got to go to Cleveland because apparently they love you there.

[A]

Yeah, apparently.

[B]

It has to be a reference to you. It can't be something unrelated and this is just a mere coincidence.

[A]

No, obviously, everything is connected. And this is evidence of a global Kane train conspiracy. So, I mean, I appreciate this brave whistleblower coming forward with it. He also is asking, do you have a lot of money where you've, like, maybe spent our life savings on this? And that has raised concerns.

[B]

Certainly a lovely day out today, but enjoying.

[A]

Don't share. Don't check the bank apps.

[B]

Oh, by the way, you look lovely in that new hat.

[A]

You. Thank you. I'm so happy. It's for the cane drain. Well, yeah, thanks for that email. And yes, the reason I was saying there's intrigue, Kevin, is because you forbid me from reading your notes for one of the Cheat sheet episodes. Also in Ohio. Not connected to this cane train escapade.

[B]

Because the case I'm going to end with this week, obviously, every case we do on this show, because we treat you guys right, they're always sad because someone dies.

[A]

It's a true crime show. If people are freaking out about that, I don't know what to tell you.

[B]

Well, I'm saying they're always sad cases. People die. They shouldn't die. But this case at the end is a case where someone dies. And that's tragic, and I'm not minimizing that, but once you take that out of it, it's about the most heartwarming and feel good murder story you can possibly imagine.

[A]

Kevin goes full cozy mystery. I'm scared, but I'm excited.

[B]

Speaking of feel good stuff, people who subscribe to our premium already know this is our premium ad. Free early episodes. At least a little bit early.

[A]

Usually pretty early.

[B]

And extra episodes, Extra premium content. And I think we've talked this week that we're going to a ventriloquism convention this weekend.

[A]

We did say that on our last Patreon Apple Live. It's a choice. I wonder if the listeners care to guess at whose impetus that is.

[B]

Well, Anya is a huge fan of Willie, Tyler and Lester, so she said, Willie, Tyler and Lester, anytime they're within like an eight hour drive of us, you make us go. And he's appearing at this ventriloquism festival.

[A]

So we're going.

[B]

We're going.

[A]

I kept the best.

[B]

That's our weekend. And also we're going to show up.

[A]

Yes. I'm a very patient wife.

[B]

We're going to show up at some random listener's house and play cornhole.

[A]

Might be you. No, I'm just kidding. Can you imagine if we just. Oh, man. Well, I guess that kind of covers it. But yeah, if you're interested in the. We have an Apple subscription, I think 4. 99amonth and Patreon at 5 bucks a month. And you're getting pretty much the same thing. That's just like more of us. Us earlier. Less ads and no ads. No ads.

[B]

And if I've heard it once, I've heard it a thousand times. People bombard us with emails and say, I love the show. I just wish there was more ventriloquism content. And if that's you, it's premium. Perfect.

[A]

The actual quintessential murder sheet email is, I love the show, but Anya should talk less. So I don't think they're. I don't think they're. I think they're clamoring for something different than what you want. They think I'm using you as my. My vent. No, that is something people accuse us of. Like, oh, Kevin probably agrees with me, but Anya won't let him. So they think you're my puppet. Speaking of bringing it back to ventriloquy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why do they think this?

[B]

Well, I mean, it's obvious why I'm your puppet. You've made that very clear.

[A]

I've never made that clear. I've never said that. I don't think that Kevin has agency.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You're no puppet.

[B]

Didn't you Do a whole episode about how I was your helpless dupe. Am I imagining that episode? Call.

[A]

What was that episode?

[B]

Call Kevin Colon. My dupe. Am I imagining this? Did this not happen?

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

It was pretty controversial at the time, and I think it got to some enemies. And you're still seeing that?

[A]

I'm still seeing. I'm still seeing the ramifications from that. Terrible choice. You know, it's. It's so bad because, like, we do have weird haters and they're also really stupid. It's like a very. It's a good combination. Like you want your haters to be dumb and inept, and that's what we've been gifted with. But honestly, you put this out there, they'll probably like. They're probably like out there and like, you know, trying to, trying to look into this, they'll somehow find something that they think is it or find evidence that we deleted it and, and then be posting everywhere. So, I mean, this is gonna take on a life of its own. Kevin, my dupe.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That is not at all. You're not a ventriloquy dummy.

[B]

I didn't want to release that episode of the time. I was against it.

[A]

Well, you're. As my puppet, you don't really have much to say.

[B]

You made that very clear. To my, to my chagrin, you wanted to call the show Anya, Kane and Kevin, like, you know, Willie, Tyler and Lester, because I was your dummy.

[A]

Wow, that's not true. You're not my. You're not a dummy and you're not my dummy. You're very good.

[B]

Whose dummy am I if not yours?

[A]

You're just a man. You're just a part. A human man living your life, making your own choices.

[B]

And it was my choice. This weekend I'm going to go see Willie, Tyler and Lester, both of them at the ventriloquism festival. I think it's called Vent Fest. And it's in Spencer, Indiana, which I believe is a community I've never been to.

[A]

Yeah, I feel like I've heard of Spencer for some crime thing, I will

[B]

say, was it Spencer Mountain, the original name of Walden's Mountain?

[A]

I. I don't know.

[B]

And you're always telling me, Kevin, if there's one series of detective novels I love, it's the Spencer series. And you've also added, because you get. You go off on these topics, you say, I also love the poet, Edmund Spencer.

[A]

Okay, are you quite done?

[B]

Do you remember the short lived Chad Lowe sitcom, Spencer? I do.

[A]

I don't because I'm not 80 years old and I'm scared of the ventriloquy dummies a little bit, but I'm excited to see something kind of unusual.

[B]

So I think you're going to have nightmares that night. That's my prediction.

[A]

I'm just worried, like, no one's ever going to see us again and then they're going to like, turn around this some weird ventriloquy dummies at the next event that look like us.

[B]

But if you start having nightmares, you put this episode on and you, you listen to the last case I'm doing, which is a feel good thing. So let's get started. Let's get through the sad stuff that's just sad. And then we'll get to my feel good one.

[A]

All right, let's do it. My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.

[B]

And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

[A]

And this is the Murder Sheet.

[B]

We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases.

[A]

We're the Murder Sheet and this is the cheat sheet. Violence and Vibes. Sam,

[B]

Are we doing year two first?

[A]

Yep. Yes. I think we're going to start out in Massachusetts. This is a very sad case. As a warning, and my primary source for this was Boston.com doing some news coverage on the case. This is a case that I think has broken into the national consciousness and I think we could talk about why in a moment.

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[A]

I wouldn't say so, but so. January 24, 2023 this is in. I'm probably going to say this name wrong. I'm sorry. We've been running around today Duxbury in Plymouth County, Massachusetts. It involves a now 35 year old woman and former labor and delivery nurse named Lindsay Marie Clancy. And she was the mother of three beautiful children, five year old Cora, three year old Dawson, and Callan, which was the her youngest 8 month old baby in 2023. At the time when this happened, she was married to a man named Patrick Clancy. And so she's this, she's a mom, she's working all of this. But what happened after Callan was born is that apparently her mental health took a turn for the worst. So she had been trying to do intensive outpatient treatment. At one point she voluntarily committed herself to a psychiatric hospital. And this was less than a month before January 24th. And she, you know, there were problems with, I guess just basically postpartum mental health issues. And those can arise, you know, things like, and I, I want to say I'm not speaking from any experience because I've never, I've not been blessed in that way to be a mother at this point. But it's one of those things where you hear a lot of women speak about how hard they can be hit by the postpartum mental health issues. Postpartum depression gets talked about a lot. You know, there's, there's all these different sides to it, but you know, there can be more rare variations of those that can be even more dangerous to both the mother suffering from it and the, the children. So the sign Something's wrong now. January 24, 2023. And a lot of this is currently on trial. So a lot of this is going to be disputed. There's a lot of agreement, weirdly enough, between the prosecution and defense about what happened. But the way they're analyzing it is markedly different as part, as far as legal responsibility, essentially, Lindsay Clancy asks her husband to go out and get takeout food for the family. And he does. While he is gone, she proceeds to strangle all three of her children, killing them with exercise bands. So and then she actually attempts suicide by jumping from a second story window. After cutting herself, she becomes paralyzed below the sternum and now gets around using a wheelchair. And she did survive though. So as you can imagine, in a case like this, there's no disputing that Lindsay Clancy murdered, I mean, killed her children. She killed her children. There's no one else who may have done this. Like the defense acknowledges this. And the question is, is it murder? Because the question is, was she sane when she did it? What are your thoughts so far?

[B]

One of my thoughts so far Is when we talk about whether people are insane or not, one of the things we look at to try to make that determination is did the person have an understanding that what they were doing was wrong? Right. Did they know it was immoral, evil, what have you? If you are truly insane, you don't have that understanding. You think what you're doing, if you're legally insane, Right. If you're legally, truly, legally insane, you think what you're doing is correct? If I think Anya is possessed by a demon and I commit violence to try to get that demon out of her, I think I'm doing the right thing. There's no problem with what I'm doing. So one area of concern for me is she sends her husband out for takeout. Why is she getting him out of the house if not for knowing and understanding that what she is contemplating doing is a problem?

[A]

Yeah. And I think that's a point that is going to be hotly contested between the defense and the prosecution. The prosecution, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is likely going to be arguing that was premeditation, that was not mental illness, or at the very least not mentally ill enough. Right. We've seen cases. Joseph Corcoran in Indiana is an example I like to use a lot. He was executed for murdering four men, including, I believe his brother in law to be or something. He had previously murdered his parents, although he was acquitted for that. He did, he did it, folks. I mean, come on, what are we talking about? But he was schizophrenic diagnosed, no question about it. When he murdered those four men, though, the crime for which he was executed, he made sure to remove a small child from the area and put her somewhere where she would be safe. In that small act of mercy, he revealed himself to not be criminally insane because he was essentially cognizant enough of like, well, I don't want to kill her. Isn't that odd? I mean, it's kind of, kind of poignant, but yes, it is that something like that. But I, I, but also, I'm sure the defense probably has experts saying that mental health can be a very nuanced thing. And you know, when, when does the, when does this murderous or this kind of lethal intent sort of set in? And, and is it, you know what, what they're saying is basically that this was a case of postpartum psychosis and that is rare. It is a rare condition than postpartum depression, but it does happen. And that is when you basically be due to postpartum factors. And a lot of this is not really fully scientifically understood. There are. I've seen a number of different things. Talking about how this may be a facet of bipolar disorder, other things talking about maybe immune situations are happening for a mother postpartum. I've also seen this. There are different risk factors. You know, having your firstborn is a risk factor, but that doesn't mean that that's always going to be the case because we don't fully understand this. I've even seen things where they indicate, like you'd think it almost would be the hormones, because your hormones are wild after you give birth. But they're like, no, I mean that they're not really seeing that in it. But I don't know. They don't. I mean, I. I'm not a scientist. I hope they do more research on this because it's obviously pretty important. But, you know, one thing that's been interesting about this case for me is that I've seen an outpouring from a lot of people, I think commentators, mostly women. We know that mostly women follow true crime. I think our audience is like 70 women, I want to say. Although it does fluctuate, I think sometimes depending on the case. With this case, though, people are. I think there's an outpouring of sympathy for Lindsay and I can understand why. I think a lot of women have a. Have traumatic experiences being pregnant, giving birth, and then postpartum, and they feel like maybe our society isn't always built in order to care for mothers at different stages of that. And so they look at her trying to get help and then this happening, and they see someone who was struggling, tried to do the right thing and didn't get what they needed. There are lawsuits ongoing with different medical practitioners around this, filed by, I believe, Patrick Clancy, who has said he forgives his wife and feels like she was a good person. But this, the. Basically the mental illness got her. So he's been supportive. So on the one hand, I mean, to me, the true victims here are the babies that were slaughtered horribly. Absolutely. But I think it does raise some interesting questions about, like, is this a mother who was struggling, didn't get the help she needed? You know, I'm not saying that's necessarily even any individual's fault. It's just maybe the systemic issues, and this is a tragedy where she's almost a victim too, because she did basically the worst thing a parent could do and now has to live with it. Or is this a situation of cold blooded, something more cold blooded, something more premeditated. They've talked about notes on her phones, like searches about can you treat. Treat a sociopath? She's looking up, you know, research. They've hinted at her researching ways to kill. And they've also talked about feelings about her children. She wrote about how she was resenting her two older children because they were preventing her from treating the baby like her first baby. And that she was feeling like they were picking up on the resentment and it was causing problems and she wanted to have better relations with all of her children. Now, to me, something like that, that might be kind of within line of like a normal postpartum kind of thought of, like, you know, like, I. The idea that mothers have to always be, like, perfect and, you know, getting along great with all their children at all times is, I think, kind of a harmful thing. I think we gotta, you know, I don't really look at that and see like, someone's gonna kill all their kids, I guess, is what I'm saying. But I will be curious to see where this goes. One thing she was said to have looked up is the drive time for this takeout place. So something like that could really be a problem, be a problem for her

[B]

in her defense, because it suggests a certain rationality in reasoning and planning, and it suggests someone who comprehends I'm about to do something that needs to be hidden.

[A]

And that's why we can say that there's. There's mental illness, but is one mentally ill enough to make the insanity defense work? But I'm going to tell you, I think, because I'm seeing such an outpouring of sympathy for her and for her situation. And I think, because a lot of women especially can relate to aspects of this story, even if they never had the psychotic side, maybe they had the depression side. And I could see this being a case where a jury feels like she's suffered enough. Also the fact that she killed her own children, I think weirdly, like, we have this bias of like, well, she damaged herself versus killing someone else's kids. People are like, no, you're, you know, you're done. I. I mean, I'm just. I'm just speculating here. I could see this case going any number of ways for me, as the question of guilt or innocence or whatever. I just don't know enough information yet. And I. I do think there's. It's troubling that there's so much about postpartum care and mental health that we fully understand. You know, it's like, can we. Can we. Can we throw some more money into women's health issues. Please research now. But you know, I just think it's sad all around. Regardless of what happened and regardless of who's to blame, it's tragic. And my heart goes out to, you know, the family obviously, and these kids. It's just very sad.

[B]

Should we move on to your second case?

[A]

This one's in Texas.

[B]

Texas.

[A]

And this one, Lone Star State. My source for this one is NBC News. And this was a request from a listener who asked us to cover this a while ago. So we're getting to it now. Sorry it took so long. This occurred on May 4, 2026, on In River Oaks in Texas. I believe that's a neighborhood in Houston and it involved a well known Houston entrepreneur. And this was Matthew Mitchell, who's 52. He had a wife named Ty My Mitchell, 39 and then an 8 year old daughter and a 4 year old boy. So this is a horrible case where it's kind of a, it's a family suicide, murder suicide. So the family had not been seen from or heard from. So a welfare check was asked for. And these, you know, the parents, the Mitchells were these owners of the popular Houston, Houston restaurants Travelers Table and Travelers Cart. Police now say that around 6:11pm that day, Matthew Mitchell, I believe is believed to have shot his family all in the head and then shot himself in the head. And this was one of those things that kind of hit the community hard. These were well known folks. There was an episode of Diners Drive Ins and Dives from Guy Fieri's Food Network show and that had profiled Travelers table and this is one of those scary cases where, you know, this is unfortunately a kind of trend you hear about again and again, men killing their entire families and then themselves family annihilations. And being, being aware, I think you know, of the signs of that and how intimate partner violence can play a role in that is important. And I would say if you are experiencing intimate partner violence or domestic violence, call the National Domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-7233. I think sometimes we have this idea of like that happens to other people, but these folks, this was a successful family doing well in Houston. It can happen to anyone and it's important to take action before it's too late. Those are my cases.

[B]

Okay. So this first one I'm going to do, I'm, I just basically I'm curious about your opinion on something and it's kind of a double header because it involves both Texas and the great country of Italy, my source for this Lehigh Valley Live. A Texan man is facing the death penalty because he killed his pregnant girlfriend. He then flees to Italy. He says, I'm innocent, but he still flees to Italy. And Italy at this point is refusing to extradite him because of the fact that he faces the death penalty here. And the prosecutors who are in charge of the case here in America are saying, well, he's not necessarily going to get the death penalty. Maybe he'll get a lesser sentence. It's not a sure thing, so go ahead and send him to us. But Italy's like, we need more than that. And so I'm just curious, Anya, what do you think? Is this giving. This is just the way the system works, but is it in essence giving. Giving Italy veto power over how justice is administered here? Is it a situation. I'm not a death penalty guy, I don't like the death penalty, but is it a situation that, oh, I faced the death penalty, let me flee to Italy, and then at the very least, I won't face the death penalty. What do you think about all of this?

[A]

Yeah, I feel like the state of Italy is not. The country of Italy is not like it. I don't know, I mean, it makes me uncomfortable that they're getting a say in this. I mean, I do understand that that is how a lot of extradition type disputes work. But, yeah, I mean, it seems pretty uncomfortable to me. But I don't really know how you get around it at this point. I. I imagine they will have to make some sort of deal with Italy. But it certainly does feel like, you know, I don't know, foreign power meddling in what Texas is doing. I'm not like a huge fan of that. Even if it's for. I'm sure the Italian government considers it a good cause to try to prevent a death, but I don't know, in a case where a pregnant woman's murdered, I'm just gonna be honest, I'm left a little cold, you know, Like, I. I don't know, I think it does, you know, but again, like, I think it's like, there's one thing to not love it, regardless of how you feel about the death penalty, but it's another thing, like, you live in the real world. This is how it works, you know, so you gotta kind of probably make a deal at some point and move forward. It's more important to get this man held accountable in some respect than to definitely just protect the death penalty. I imagine there's a certain level where they don't want to necessarily give in because then they're giving them a veto. But at the same time, death penalty is extremely cumbersome and makes cases last for years and makes people get way more appeals than they already would. So there's already arguments against the death penalty that have nothing to do with, like, not wanting to kill people. It's more of just convenience. So, I mean, we've seen prosecutors in cases where they acknowledge, like, this is heinous, this is horrible, but we're just not. We do not want to deal with the death penalty and all that comes from. With it, all the baggage that comes with it. For some people, they also view a life in prison as bad enough as maybe worse death is. My death might feel like a release, whereas you're never going to get out. You're never. You're just, this is your life now, you know, and that's just some people. I mean, obviously there's a lot of debate about this. I myself feel pretty ambivalent about it. I will say that, you know, for me, I did see that his lawyer is apparently saying, well, Italy might even not want him to get life in prison. Which is like, okay, at that point, what are we doing Italy, do you want to collectively move to Texas and then you can have a say or like, I mean, like, I get the death penalty thing. Like, that's almost like a big stance in you Europe of like, oh, it's so barbaric and all this stuff. Whatever, that's fine. It's fine. If you think that. And they, they have an opportunity to actually do something about it. So I can understand that. But if they're trying to be like, actually, what about 25 to light? I mean, like, like, at some point, it just seems a little ridiculous is what I'm saying.

[B]

Okay, So I don't know if his

[A]

lawyer is just full of it or like, hey, Italy, you want to get behind me on this one?

[B]

So this next case, my source is the Washington Post. I've been calling it an Ohio case. It also has connections to Maryland. And I should start with a word of caution, Kind of a little bit of a warning. Oh, no. You often say, Anya, when you see a story about someone doing something nice, that it warms the cockles of your heart. And so I'm worried that in a few moments, some of our listeners are going to have burning hot heart cockles. And so maybe that sounds so wrong. Maybe get an ice pack, a cold compress just to be safe.

[A]

What is happening?

[B]

That's a phrase Warming the cockles of your body.

[A]

I've heard it said by you exclusively, but it still sounds weird.

[B]

Be burning hot heart cockles in a few moments. That's my prediction. So cold compress an ice pack, maybe some ice water, maybe a nice glass of lemonade. Okay. Or if you want to be extra safe, you could like, I don't know, there's lots of things you do. Just make yourself be very, very cool. So this is the story of a woman named Adrienne Bierman. 49 year old woman living in small town Ohio. And she's had some struggles in her life. And I'll tell you about some of those struggles. She grows up in Michigan. She leaves home at 16. She has this sort of life. She's like sleeping under bridges. She becomes homeless again. When she's in her 30s, she meets a great guy. She falls in love with him. Then one day she wakes up and he's dead on the floor from a heart attack. They have a young daughter. She just. According to this article, she only recently began walking. Biermann is quoted in this article as saying, I was angry at God because he took away a man who finally loved me. So this is a woman who's been through some stuff. She ends up at Genoa or Genoa, Ohio, and she starts going to some weekly women's recovery group meetings. And this really, really helps her. At this point, she's close to three years sober.

[A]

Oh, good for her.

[B]

And she's quoted as saying, you know, you find people to be vulnerable to and that's how you learn to trust. And so I think this is nice because a lot of people who have those sorts of experiences become very hard and very bitter, understandably, because suffering is a terrible thing. And if I woke to find you dead on the floor, I don't know how I would deal with that. So the fact that this woman is so resilient and has committed to improving herself, even right there, I find some inspiration in that. So she works as a custodian at this church. She also is one of the managers of a takeout restaurant. And earlier this year she gets a call from someone who works there. And she says, some woman, she says her name is Vanessa. She came in today with her girlfriend, whose name is Samantha. They were hungry, didn't have any money. Samantha says she just got a job at Taco Bell, who knows? But now they need a ride to their motel. Ms. Biermann doesn't know these people, obviously. They're just like strangers with problems who end up at a place where she Works. She has no connection to them, no obligation to them. But Ms. Biermann is a woman that knows what it's like to be homeless. She knows what it's like to be friendless and to need a helping hand. So she goes, she picks them up. And as they are driving towards the hotel, this woman Samantha mentions. Yeah, I do have this job at Taco Bell, but haven't gotten paid yet. In fact, don't have any money at all. And Adrian does something that I think a lot of people would not do. She invites the woman, two women to stay at her house the next night. Wow. Her daughter is away at a camp. And what's funny is she texts them, I promise you, I'm not a serial killer. Y' all can do some laundry, have a home cooked meal, play some Pac Man. I have a Pac man machine. Lol.

[A]

And she's adorable.

[B]

Yeah. Isn't this great? Who would do this?

[A]

Look at the nicest person.

[B]

This article later on quotes like a professor. And the professor says, it's nice that she did this, but it's kind of crazy. It is.

[A]

I mean, like, I would. Yeah, I'm not that nice. I would never let people into my house.

[B]

Let me ask you this. Are your cockles warming up?

[A]

They are.

[B]

See, I called it. I called it. Do you need to go get an ice cockle?

[A]

I might need to.

[B]

They, of course, accept this offer. And they stay at her home on a sofa bed. They're very nice roommates. The next afternoon, Ms. Biermann is. Has other obligations. She has to go to some sort of Christian woman's retreat. My mother goes to those sometimes. So at this point, she leaves the women alone in her house. You can have the place for the weekend. And then she gives them a $20 bill because, again, well, I'll quote directly from this article. I know what it's like to not have a dime to your name. Biermann remembers telling them, having something in your pocket makes you feel human. Wow.

[A]

She's so generous.

[B]

She's very, very generous. Generous.

[A]

I'm extremely worried for her right now.

[B]

She's very, very generous. And then this women's retreat, she writes about all of this in a journal. And one of her concerns is will. Having these women in my house and dealing with them, some of the things they're dealing with, you know, not having money, not having a place to go, is that going to trigger me? Because is that going to bring back some of my bad memories of that? But she says she wrote, quote, triggers for me through this so far, have been minimal. Some of her friends, she writes in her journal, are scared for her, thinking she might be robbed. Here is what Ms. Bierman writes in her journal. She writes, do what you do, God, lead me. Help me. Help them. Okay, so what are you. What are you thinking so far?

[A]

I mean, I love her. I mean, she's a wonderful person and a great Christian. Better than I would ever be because I would be too scared. I mean, being into true crime, I'd be like, not only are they going to rob me, they're going to freaking torture me to death or something. You know what I mean? Like, we get too. I mean, that's probably too paranoid. I don't. You know, I don't like sometimes what true crime does to society where it makes everyone distrust each other. But then again, there are certain things that I think are. Would be in my comfort zone of trust. And then there's, like, letting strangers into your house, like, hang out without you. That's a lot. I mean, but, I mean, God bless her. Yeah.

[B]

How would you react. How would Anya react if I. If I came home with two guys, said, anya, I met these fellas, I'd be like.

[A]

I'd be like, oh, excuse us. And I would lock the doors, and I would. We would have a conversation, and they would not be allowed in.

[B]

But I'll tell you, I'm worried about this woman. But I think it's. It makes me feel better that there are people like that in this world.

[A]

I know. Yeah. Like, you can't be mad at her. I mean, I could understand her friends being scared for her, but, I mean, what a. What a nice person.

[B]

So she gets back. What a good person, what a great person. She gets back from this retreat, and she's talking things over with one of her neighbors. And her neighbors noticed a couple of things. The neighbor thinks, I think they might have more money than they say. Oh, no, I use doordash and things like that. But Ms. Bierman doesn't see anything out of the usual. She's not overly concerned, but she's starting to have a few trust issues, especially because, you know, her daughter's away at camp. She's going to be back in a few days.

[A]

Yeah, she's got to get. She's got to get this wrapped up before she comes home.

[B]

So Wednesday night, she goes over to a friend's house. They're talking it over. Her friend also has had problems in her life. She's had heroin addiction issues. And she thinks that she was able to get clean by not having to rely on others, she did on her own. And she thinks Biermann also got it on her own, but a little worried for her friend. And her friend, Ms. Peters gets an idea. The night before, one of these women, Vanessa, had sent her $10 to pay for some cigarettes. And she used a cash app. And the name on the cash app was Vanessa Henderson. And that was not the last name that they had given Ms. Bierman. So she did what I think anybody would do in that situation. She googled it, and she found out that these two women were wanted for murder.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Wait. They were murderers.

[B]

They are wanted for murderers. And here's a quote I wanted to read from Ms. Bierman. And it was when I read this quote that I said, we've got to cover this case. Here's what Ms. Beerman said. I never got a bad vibe from them. Maybe I need to get my viber fixed. What a delightful woman.

[A]

I love her so much. My viber. That's crazy.

[B]

I immediately.

[A]

Cause who do they kill?

[B]

I'll tell you that in a moment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Immediately calls 911, the police come. And even then, Ms. Biermann is trying to be helpful to everyone involved because she's thinking, well, if the police just come in, maybe that might cause some sort of violence and somebody might get hurt. So even at that late date, she's offering to go in there and try to calm the situation down. What a great person. Every step of the way, it seems she's making the kindest, most generous decision possible. And that is such a blessing to me to read about. Because in true crime, we often see cases where every step of the way, people are making the worst decision possible.

[A]

That is so true. And the most unkind decision possible. Yeah, I mean, good for her. I mean, just what a sweetie.

[B]

These two women are accused of killing one of their mothers, 67 year old woman named Hildy Henderson. These two women are seen on camera, like going into her apartment and they're like coming out with things with blood on them.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. That's really bad.

[B]

And I should give you their names. The victim's daughter is Vanessa Tanjiro Henderson, 29. Her girlfriend is Samantha Rebel, 36. Quoting directly from the article, surveillance video show the three women entering Henderson's apartment six hours later to Darrow. Henderson was recorded carrying out several items, including a white bed sheet that appeared to be stained with blood.

[A]

My goodness.

[B]

And then they vanish and end up in Ohio, where they run into Ms. Bierman. So this is why I Say, did I oversell this? No.

[A]

It was so great. I mean, it was very heartwarming.

[B]

Other than the murder, this is about as heartwarming of a story as you can can get on a true crime show.

[A]

You did not oversell it. You did not over hype it. The vibes were right for that one.

[B]

Do you need a cold compress to cool your heart's cockles?

[A]

I. I'm fine. My cockles are fine.

[B]

Your cockles are cooled.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I mean, I. But that they were very warm there for a minute. That was. That was very nice. And it is nice that there are people out like there, but then you just worry about them because it's like, oh, man, just be careful about who you let in your house.

[B]

Yeah. And like, she was worried about what they would think of her saying, oh, yeah, don't think I'm a. I'm a serial killer.

[A]

I know. Yeah. Like, don't worry. And they're like, oh, yeah, okay, thanks. Wow. But you know what?

[B]

Good for her.

[A]

And I'm glad, you know, I'm glad they were apprehended without anyone getting further hurt.

[B]

Yeah. And thank goodness there are people out there. But I. I will read this quote I was. I was referencing from sociolog sociologist Bruce Carruthers. He's quoted in this article, is saying, quote, I think it was understandable what she did. I think it was still kind of crazy.

[A]

Oh, man.

[B]

She took some chances.

[A]

That's what the professor says.

[B]

Professor Carruthers. I love it. Oh, woe be to the poor soul who needs help and turns to Professor Carruthers.

[A]

No, I'm sure he's.

[B]

I'm sure he's a very kind.

[A]

There's kind and then there's like, let random people into your house kind. And I just, you know, I mean, a lot of people, there's, you know, enough concern, you know, what the worst case scenarios are that a lot of people wouldn't do that. I would never do that. But I can still appreciate someone's kindness for having done that. I'm very glad that she did not get hurt in this.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Other than perhaps her trust in people somewhat.

[B]

What a great person.

[A]

Yeah. So is that all your cases?

[B]

Do I need anything after that? No, that was my grand.

[A]

You can go out on that high note. Right.

[B]

Maybe I should just stop doing cases altogether.

[A]

Maybe we should just quit the podcast. Honestly, just not just.

[B]

We found our good person.

[A]

We've been looking for her for years now. We're done.

[B]

We should go study under her.

[A]

Oh, man.

[B]

Teach us to trust Ms. Biermann.

[A]

Teach us to open a boarding house for murderers? No, Teach us. Yeah, I think. Teach us to trust again. Now we can all heal. Well, God bless her. And, yeah, good for you for finding that story. That was great. You were right. I'm glad I didn't have that spoiled for me ahead of time, because there were times where I have no. Is she gonna get murdered? What is gonna happen? I was riveted.

[B]

Storytelling.

[A]

You're very good at it.

[B]

Yes. So do you have any final parting words of wisdom for our dear friends, the listeners, to keep in mind as they go about their affairs this weekend?

[A]

Maybe we could all be a little bit more like Ms. Bierman going forward. Within reason. And you know what I mean. And I just, you know, I appreciate everyone for listening. It means a lot to us that you're spending this time with us. And it's. I hope you're having some fun getting something out of it that's interesting or informative. And I don't really have anything else to add. How about you? Do you.

[B]

Do you remember Anya, the. There used to be a chain store in shopping malls all across this country that sold like, gifts. And some of them were a bit risque, but.

[A]

What.

[B]

They were a bit risque by the standards of the time, but they were still sold in grocery stores. The name of that chain, Spencer Gifts.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We're going to Spencer, Indiana.

[A]

Oh, okay. I forgot. Yeah. I mean. Okay. You really brought it full circle there.

[B]

See that again, that's storytelling. Because you want to take people on a journey that can be like a circle. We started talking about ridiculous Spencer references, and we end. We're still making Spencer references.

[A]

And scene.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Take a bow, Kevin.

[B]

Thank you. I earned it. Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email [e-mail] if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[A]

If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com murdersheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www. Buymeacoffee.com murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.

[B]

Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the [e-mail] if you're looking to talk with

[A]

other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.