The Delphi Murders: The Defense's Ricci Davis Gambit

Summary

The Delphi Murders: The Defense's Ricci Davis Gambit

Episode Release Date: February 17, 2025
Hosts: Áine Cain (Journalist) and Kevin Greenlee (Attorney)
Podcast: Murder Sheet

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Introduction

In this episode of Murder Sheet, hosts Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee delve into the intricacies of the ongoing legal battle surrounding the Delphi Murders. The focus is on the defense's recent legal maneuver involving Ricci Davis, a controversial figure whose credibility is heavily scrutinized by the hosts.

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Navigating Contentious Filings

Timestamp: [02:53] - [07:55]

Áine and Kevin express their reluctance to discuss certain legal filings that they deem unworthy of their listeners' time. They emphasize the importance of not wasting valuable listener time on what they consider to be "pointless legal filings" unless they hold significant relevance to the case.

Kevin (03:26): "We actually hesitated before doing this episode... what we're going to be discussing today is something that is not interesting and it's not worth your time."

The hosts decide to categorize future filings as either "important" or "not important," allowing listeners to decide whether to engage with the content based on its perceived value.

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Defense's Motion to Strike

Timestamp: [10:25] - [22:56]

The core discussion revolves around the defense's verified motion to strike the state's response to a previous motion. The defense alleges that Richard Allen had legal representation that unjustly influenced the safekeeping motion, leading to his incarceration without proper oversight.

Key Points:

• The defense claims lack of evidence supporting their allegations, relying only on a weak affidavit from Kathy Allen ([12:11]).
• Prosecutor McClelland counters by presenting an email from the attorney stating he does not represent Richard Allen, undermining the defense's claims ([14:02]).
• The defense introduces dubious evidence, such as a video of a white van, whose timing cannot be corroborated, rendering it "impeachable" at best ([14:32]).

Kevin (12:32): "They did not ask the lawyer for a statement... They did not ask Richard Allen if it was his understanding that this man represented him."

Áine and Kevin criticize the defense for their poorly substantiated claims and question their strategic approach, suggesting it serves more to muddy public perception than to provide substantive legal challenges.

Anya (14:51): "Which would have been the important thing to do if we're to take this seriously."

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Ricci Davis: A Questionable Ally

Timestamp: [30:39] - [61:13]

Ricci Davis, an inmate with a dubious criminal history, emerges as a central figure in the defense's strategy. The hosts dissect his involvement and the validity of his claims.

Key Points:

• Background of Ricci Davis: Convicted on drug charges, including forgery and theft, Davis leverages his criminal background to insert himself into the Delphi case, alleging inside knowledge that implicates others ([30:53]).
• Unreliable Testimony: Davis's accounts are riddled with inconsistencies and inaccuracies, such as incorrect details about the murders and false claims about associates like Kagan Klein ([32:18], [34:01]).
• Polygraph Failings: Davis failed a polygraph test, casting further doubt on his credibility ([33:31]).

Kevin (33:31): "So when you have someone saying, oh, I heard this bit of information and that information... you would be pretty safe to assume that the information he is trying to peddle is wrong."

The hosts argue that Davis's testimonies lack reliability, noting his tendency to change stories and his apparent motives to gain attention through involvement in a high-profile case.

Anya (35:23): "Some inmates make for good witnesses, but in many cases where there's no corroborating evidence and it's just one person's word against another, I don't care."

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Critique of Defense's Strategies and Theories

Timestamp: [61:13] - [72:16]

Áine and Kevin further examine the defense's strategies, particularly their use of unconventional theories such as Odinism to distract from the core evidence against Richard Allen.

Key Points:

• Odinism Theory: Initially posited by the defense, Odinism served as a red herring, diverting attention away from the tangible evidence implicating Richard Allen. The hosts highlight how this theory was debunked but continues to be leveraged by the defense ([46:28]).
• Public Perception and Media Manipulation: The defense's tactics are portrayed as attempts to sway public opinion and maintain relevance despite a lack of substantive evidence.

Anya (48:57): "This is their strategy to cater to the fringes of YouTube... and I would ask, how's that worked out for you guys?"

The hosts express frustration over the defense's continuous introduction of baseless theories, emphasizing that these strategies undermine the seriousness of the case and obscure the truth.

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Impact on the Case and Future Implications

Timestamp: [72:16] - [76:17]

As the episode concludes, Áine and Kevin reflect on the broader implications of the defense's actions. They criticize the defense for wasting time with unfounded claims and reiterate their belief in Richard Allen's guilt.

Key Points:

• Law Enforcement and Judicial Integrity: The hosts defend prosecutor McClelland and Judge Gould against the defense's smear campaigns, asserting that the legal process has been compromised by the defense's actions.
• Listeners' Trust: Áine and Kevin stress the importance of maintaining public trust through factual reporting and critical analysis of defense strategies.

Kevin (70:43): "It's like a waste of all of our time. The Ricky Davis story is obvious nonsense."

They conclude with a call for listeners to remain skeptical of the defense's claims and to prioritize credible evidence over sensationalized narratives.

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Conclusion

Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee provide a thorough and critical analysis of the defense's legal tactics in the Delphi Murders case. By dissecting the credibility of key figures like Ricci Davis and challenging the defense's reliance on dubious theories, they highlight the complexities and manipulative strategies that can arise in high-profile legal battles. Their commitment to journalistic integrity offers listeners a clear-eyed view of the case, urging skepticism and informed judgment amidst a swirl of misinformation.

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Notable Quotes

• Kevin Greenlee ([03:26]): "We actually hesitated before doing this episode... what we're going to be discussing today is something that is not interesting and it's not worth your time."

• Anya Cain ([14:51]): "Which would have been the important thing to do if we're to take this seriously."

• Kevin Greenlee ([33:31]): "So when you have someone saying, oh, I heard this bit of information and that information... you would be pretty safe to assume that the information he is trying to peddle is wrong."

• Anya Cain ([48:57]): "This is their strategy to cater to the fringes of YouTube... and I would ask, how's that worked out for you guys?"

• Kevin Greenlee ([70:43]): "It's like a waste of all of our time. The Ricky Davis story is obvious nonsense."

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the critical discussion presented by Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee, offering listeners an insightful overview of the episode’s key themes and arguments without requiring prior knowledge of the actual podcast.

Transcript

[Anya Cain]

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[Kevin Greenlee]

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[Kevin Greenlee]

So I want to start off by saying that we actually hesitated before doing this episode. Because I, I think whenever we release an episode on any subject whatsoever, there is an implicit message from us to you that we think this is worth your time. You know, maybe you don't agree with us, maybe you don't want to hear about the assassination of President Garfield, but we can say, at the very least, we think it's interesting and worth your time. And what we're going to be discussing today is something that is not interesting and it's not worth your time.

[Anya Cain]

You know, I love this. In our Facebook group, which has so many wonderful people, somebody posted, kind of was a meme a few years ago of actor Ben Affleck standing in a doorway with a cigarette, looking exhausted and irritated. And they said, this is what Anya and Kevin are right now. And yes, that is how we are right now. That was very disturbingly accurate because we, we're, we're kind of caught in this conundrum of, frankly, not really wanting to cover things that we think are stupid and pointless. But at the same time, it feels on some level like by not explaining things, we're almost ceding the ground to people who are just going to lie or obfuscate or whatnot. So we've tried to work this out where we feel good about covering things like this going forward because it's not gonna be the last time, I'm sure. And here's what we've worked out, because here's the thing. Listen, I'm not a lawyer. Many of our listeners are lawyers. Many are not. And I think it's one thing for, you know, us to be like, ah, it's not worth your time. But if we don't explain that, a lot of people might be like, but I don't understand. And, you know, like, I, I, like we don't want to just abandon the case. I mean, frankly, sometimes I. The thing that this reminds me of the most, sometimes in terms of, like, the situation we found ourselves in with this case. I, for some reason, I ended up watching a lot of Looney Tunes shorts as a child. I had them on VHS tape And this is one called Buccaneer Bunny, where Bugs Bunny is up against Yosemite Sam, who is a pirate for some reason in this one. And they're on the ship, and Bugs keeps on lighting a match and throwing it into the powder room of the ship with all this gunpowder, so it explodes. And Yosemite Stan keeps running down the stairs to go get the lit match so that the ship doesn't explode. And the one time he doesn't immediately do that, he's kind of, like, sweating and looking at it, and then the second he starts to run for it, like, it blows up. And, like, sometimes I feel like that with this case where I feel like we're constantly trying to debunk misinformation, talk about sort of pointless legal filings that have no merit. And it's. It's kind of. It's just I. I don't feel like that's necessarily always the best use of our time. But then again, when we don't do it, everything seems to blow up, So I guess we're kind of. That's where we are. So here's the system.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah. I was struck that a number of outlets and other people seem to take this particular matter we're going to be discussing a lot more seriously than I thought it merited.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. So it's like, you know, we don't. We don't go for the lip match and the powder room explodes. So let's talk about what we're going to do. The worst thing. I think one of the worst things you can do to somebody is waste their time. And we are. Are we really? Try not to waste your time. Your time is valuable. You could be going out and listening to anything else. You could be hanging out with your family or friends. You could be going to the gym. I mean, and you can do that and listen to podcasts, but you know what I'm saying? Like, you could be doing anything else. So we think of your time as valuable. So when we get a Delphi filing that we don't feel is important, we are going to say that up front. And at that point, we would say that you can just bounce. You can skip it. You're not going to miss much. It doesn't matter. Is that fair to say?

[Kevin Greenlee]

That's fair to say. This subject we're discussing today is not important. We always enjoy your company. Love to have you hang out with us. But if, frankly, if you were to turn off now and go out and do anything else.

[Anya Cain]

Take a walk. Yeah, you can. You can hang out if you want to hear two very exasperated people descending into, you know, a group madness, please stick around. But if. If. If you just. If you only want to get the big updates, skip this one. And we will be labeling every Delphi episode going forward, whether it's skippable or not, when it comes to these filings, at least, because, again, we don't want to waste your time. Now, I want to. I want to say, so we'll be seeing at the top of these episodes whether we think it's important or not important. If we say something is important, that doesn't mean we agree with it. That doesn't mean it's like a momentous shift in the case. That doesn't even mean it's a big development. It just means it's reaches the normal threshold of something we would have covered anyway.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah.

[Anya Cain]

Whereas when we're covering something that we think is not important, that means we're basically in combating misinformation and stupid speculation mode. And it's more of a defensive posture. So hopefully that clears things up. We're really trying here to kind of do the right thing by the case while also not wasting your time. So hopefully this at least gives everyone the option of saying, okay, I don't need to listen to the unimportant episodes. I'll tune back into the important ones. And for people who want that extra clarity or want to hear us get very annoyed, you can stick around and enjoy yourselves. So that's what we're doing.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And maybe go back and give that Assassination of Garfield episode a listen. Okay, I'm still pitching for that one because I think that episode is more interesting than what we're about to talk about, just to be honest.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. But, you know, I also. I understand it that people, you know, I want people to have the tools and the information and whatnot that they can use when they are faced against kind of a mountain of nonsense. And so I don't want to deprive people of that while also not necessarily giving it too much importance. Hopefully everyone understands, but we're trying our best here. We're fighting for our lives out here. People. Shall we get started? My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

[Anya Cain]

And this is the Murder Sheet.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're the Murder Sheet.

[Anya Cain]

And this is the Delphi Murders, the Defense's Ricky Davis Gambit.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So we, before we actually get to the Ricky Davis portion of the program. The defense did another filing. And so as long as we're here, we may as well discuss that, too. And I'm referring to the defendant's verified motion to strike the state's response to motion to correct error. You will recall that the defense filed a motion in which they said, oh, there was these errors in the trial. And then prosecutor McClelland responded to that, and now they are responding to that response and basically saying, just throw his response out. And for me, I think some of the most important things in their original motion were they said, for instance, that Richard Allen had a defense attorney representing him shortly after his arrest and that this defense attorney was ostensibly intending to represent him throughout the rest of the proceedings, and that this defense attorney was not a part of the safekeeping motion and the decisions around the safekeeping motion. And that's basically the decision to send Mr. Allen to the Department of Corrections. And so what was interesting to me about this is. Well, we're. First of all, that is an allegation they made that they literally supplied no evidence to support.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, well, they had some weak tea Kathy Allen affidavit saying, you know, when they have their client there who could presumably confirm or deny this.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So, well, yeah, if, for instance, I hired someone to cut my front lawn, you could then say, kevin, did you hire this person to cut your front lawn? And I could say, yes. Or you could go out and let's say you have the name of the person I said I hired. You could also ask him. The. They did not ask the lawyer for a statement.

[Anya Cain]

Well, they didn't get. I mean, we don't know if they asked, but they didn't get one.

[Kevin Greenlee]

They didn't get one. They did not get a statement from the lawyer saying it was his intention to represent Richard Allen in this. They did not ask Richard Allen if it was his understanding that this man represented him. All they had was the equivalent. If you could ask Anya and say, anya, what do you think Kevin hired this guy for? You know, it's tangential. They had the ability to ask their client whether or not this man represented him. They had the ability to ask this attorney whether or not he represented Richard Allen. So then in the response from Mr. McClelland, he pointed out that he received an email from the attorney in which the attorney said, I'm not representing him. So in this reply, basically, there's no response to that. They focus instead on the issue of whether or not the attorney filed an appearance in the case and say, well, even if he didn't file an appearance. Who knows, Maybe he still represented him. But that's not the issue. The issue is did he in fact represent him? And also I would wonder if this person did in fact represent him and court proceedings were going on without him being notified of said court proceedings. I would imagine that the attorney would have made his displeasure known years ago.

[Anya Cain]

Maybe he's part of the whole conspiracy. Kevin ever consider that? Checkmate.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And then the other big issue was that there is this video of a white van, probably Brad Weber's white van going down the road to his house that was taken on the afternoon of the killings. And McClelland basically said, we don't know what time this video was taken. And because we don't know exactly what time it was taken, at best it's impeachable evidence. It's not really evidence. That goes to the heart of whatever.

[Anya Cain]

And they had this video and they could have used it at trial to impeach.

[Kevin Greenlee]

That's not even the issue. The issue is we don't know what time it was shot at.

[Anya Cain]

Right.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And there's nothing in this document. Their verified motion to strike, which responds to that and establishes any criteria for whether or not we know what time that video was taken.

[Anya Cain]

Which would have been the important thing to do if we're to take this seriously.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Those were the things that I thought were most important to respond to. And I didn't see them. When we sound all dry and weird, that's not good for anyone. So we tried to drink lots of water. The problem is I don't like tap water. I always go for the bottled water. But maybe I'm on to something. Extensive research by the Environmental Working Group finds that many homes in America can't have harmful contaminants in their tap water. But there's one system that's selling me on tap water once and for all. I'm talking about Aquatru.

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[Anya Cain]

Aqua True comes with a 30 day money back guarantee and even makes a great gift. Today my listeners receive 20% off any Aqua True Purifier. Just go to aquatrue.com that's a Q U a T r u dot com and enter code msheet at checkout. That's 20% off any Aqua True water purifier. When you go to aquatrue.com and use promo code MSHE E T we like to automate things here at the Murder Sheet. We get all kinds of alerts about our episodes. We schedule emails in advance. We set reminders for ourselves to do interviews lest we accidentally ghost a detective or a defense attorney. Automation makes life easier because it's one less thing to have to think about. That's why we love Acorns. This is an automatic investment service that's built to help everyone invest no matter how much money you have.

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[Anya Cain]

I just wish we'd had an app like Acorns back when we were just starting out. It would have saved us so much money related time and stress because it's really a no brainer. All it takes is $5 or even just your spare change. Sign up now and join the over 13 million all time customers who have already saved and invested over $22 billion with Acorns. Head to acorns.com msheet or download the Acorns app to get started. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns tier one compensation provided investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC, an SEC registered investment adv. View important [e-mail] yeah, I mean I don't think it's. I just. I mean I don't think it's worth going through this whole thing point by point. I think this team again has a history of filing things that turn out not to be true. And a lot of this struck me as Carefully worded press release type stuff, stuff that's gonna really interest the folks in the media and, you know, their, you know, Internet peanut gallery online. But I don't feel like it's relevant or, I mean, and just the way this was written was just bizarre to me.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes. They also threw in well before, let me say this. They got some grief from people like us, and also they got some grief in McClelland's response for the fact that they posted a video clip which they said was evidence, highly relevant evidence. They posted that to YouTube, which to me, that kind of gives the whole game away. They're not really interested in appealing to the judge or to anybody within the system. They want their YouTube fans to be able to see all of this. And so by putting it on YouTube, they were trying to do an end run around the system and try to make that video available to their fans online. And they say, no, no, I'm reading now. That web link was provided for ease of viewing by the parties in the court. And with all due respect, does anyone believe that?

[Anya Cain]

No, that's. Oh, my God.

[Kevin Greenlee]

They put the YouTube link in the filing so their fans could read it, not so the Judge Galt would be able to access it.

[Anya Cain]

I just think it's embarrassing, the level of connection between. It's like they're like a, like a, some true crime equivalent of like, like a teacher who wants to look cool in front of the students. So, like kind of like tries to act almost like a student. It's like you shouldn't be even. You shouldn't be even. Like, that shouldn't even be on your radar. I don't even know why this is hard. Like, like, just ignore these people. Like, why, why are you trying to cater to them at all times? Why are you trying to give Michael OSBROOK A little YouTube boost? It's embarrassing. All these people should be embarrassed. I, I'm like, I, I just like, I, we obviously we're in the new media. We have a podcast. We feel mixed feelings about new media. I think there's some great podcasts, some great YouTube creators. Most of it, I think is garbage and a waste of time, if I'm being honest. But, like, that's my opinion. Being in this space. I can't, like, I can't fathom that actual attorneys in a high profile case have, have, have been citing YouTubers in filings, have been palling around with YouTubers in court, have been doing stuff like this. It's just like, I don't know it. I, like, are they Trying to look cool for the kids or something. What's next? Are we gonna see Baldwin and Rosie's try to start a TikTok dance trend? What is next?

[Kevin Greenlee]

All I have to say is it's obviously been their strategy to cater to the fringes of YouTube. And I would ask, how's that worked out for you guys? I don't, I don't. I don't think it's worked out that well. They. They picked a frankly ridiculous defense of Odinism. They catered to this fringe. They lost their case badly. And their client got the absolute maximum term stay winning. I don't think their strategy has worked.

[Anya Cain]

No.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So I was at a loss as to why they pursued it, and I'm a loss as to why they are continuing it.

[Anya Cain]

I am a loss as to why they are still here. If you have a coach lead a football team to a devastating series of losses and, you know, just disgrace, frankly. You know, usually that coach is fired and a new coach is brought on to handle things and try to get things back and running. That's what I would expect. No, that's what you would expect. Even in cases where defense attorneys lose. But they didn't. You know, they mean you win and then the case is over because you won or, you know, there's a mistrial, in which case you probably get a second shot at it or you lose. Even if you lose gracefully, even if you lose and you did a really good job and you came really close. Normally that's when the appeals team steps in and they get to work and they're doing their thing. Why are these people still here if not to continue to try to like, eke out every single little bit of attention from this thing as possible and, like, why would you want the losers continuing to try to steer the ship here? I just don't even understand it.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I also wanted to point out another aspect of this filing that jump out at me. You may remember that after the sentencing or around the time of the sentencing, McClelland filed a motion saying, hey, we have certain things in the case, like, you know, the mental health records of Richard Allen and some crime scene photographs that should not be made available to the public. And hey, the defense obviously has mishandled this material in the past because they allowed some crime scene pictures to get out. Ordinarily, a lot of this evidence would become public. But he filed in this motion, he said, let's keep these photographs sealed so that the public can't access them. So then in his response to some, frankly, false claims made by the defense in their original filings. He disproved the claims by including a picture, or, I believe, two pictures, actually, I think it was several of the phone. Of Libby's phone as it appeared at the crime scene. And so now they are trying to claim in this particular filing that by doing that, he somehow broke the order that the judge made to keep those documents, those photos, sealed from the public. And so because of that, he should be held in contempt. And that's dumb. That's dumb.

[Anya Cain]

I wrote down dumb as my note there.

[Kevin Greenlee]

When you seal something, you're controlling the ability of the public to access it. His use of those photos was not gratuitous. It did not include any bodies or anything of that nature. It was meant to disprove a dubious and false assertion made by the defense and their witnesses in their filing. There was nothing wrong with that. It's what it tells you is they're kind of smarting from the fact that they messed up. They messed up when they let those pictures get out. And they're smarting from that. They're smarting that McClelland asked them to be held in contempt. So they're saying, well, he asked us to be held in contempt. We want him to be held in contempt.

[Anya Cain]

There's something so childish about their interactions with McCleland in some of these filings. There's something so childish like, remember the ding dong filing? Oh, the judge called McClelland a ding dong, but she never called us a ding dong. It's like. It's like little boys whining. Like, half of this is the. Is the kind of underlying in legal filings, the underlying vibe of some of this stuff. It's like, oh, well, he did it too, and he's not in trouble. You didn't get a timeout, and I did. And it's like, you know, maybe if they wanted to have come across better from their disastrous leak, which, to be clear, led directly to photos of dead children existing on the Internet right now. That is their fault. That is something they allowed to.

[Kevin Greenlee]

They are entirely responsible for the fact that crime scene pictures of these two dead girls are all over the Internet. And so for the rest of their lives, when relatives of these victims turn on their computers, there is a chance that they might come across these pictures. I don't feel they failed in their basic responsibility to keep those materials private.

[Anya Cain]

I don't feel personally. And listen, I do it. Mistakes can happen. I don't feel that in their dealings with the public, in their public statements since the trial in Their public statements in the pre trial phase. I don't feel like there's really been any accountability from them on this. I hear Brad Rosie saying things like it doesn't matter. I he hear people who are basically acting as their spokespeople go online and go on TV and say, it's just a drip, it doesn't matter. And, and I hear, you know a lot about forgiving Mitch Westerman, the guy who did this, you know, or, or is alleged to have done it.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, it is alleged that Mitch Westerman did this acting alone, although he's also been described as a valued confidence.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. So which is it?

[Kevin Greenlee]

So, but they immediately have forgiven him for that.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. So that's all, that's all well and good for them, but again, I don't. If they wanted to perhaps take some of the heat off of themselves, I would have expected a little bit more contrition. I certainly would have. You know, I think it would have been fine if they wanted to argue, listen, we're really sorry about this. We take accountability. We don't think we should be removed. We don't think it rises to that level. That's fine. That's an argument I could understand making, but they've just been dismissive and frankly, I would argue cruel, given what has happened. So I, I think, I think the fact that they're still basically trying to relitigate that again, is more about public perceptions because I think they realize that a huge segment of the public is completely disgusted with them. Based on that alone. Yes, based on what they allowed to happen and then what they continued to try to justify up until recently. And I'm sure we'll continue trying to justify and continue trying to smear Nicholas McLeland, who again did not do that and is not responsible for any of that and is had. There's no moral equivalency here. They're being intellectually dishonest because they are so obsessed, I think, with public opinion that again, this is an important thing in their minds to relitigate, even though none of this even has anything to do with that. We're not even talking about the leak here. They're continuously bringing it up to try to be like, see, we're not so bad. They did it too.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I also want to make this point in their filing, they said, oh, the phone was not dirty, it was not Wet. And so McClelland produced a photo that proved the phone was dirty and the phone was wet. And they are not saying, oh, those photos were inaccurate or doctored in Any way. So what is their contention that if they make a false assertion, McClelland should not have the right to produce photographic evidence that proves them to be liars?

[Anya Cain]

Well, Kevin, he's not a phone expert, you know, so, I mean, like, I know we all saw the phone covered in, you know, refuse and leaves and droplets of moisture, but, I mean, like, does he really know that? That. I mean, like, it's like, basically, don't trust your lying eyes here. You know, he. Like, what?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Maybe I misspoke and went too far when I said they are liars. But clearly what they put in that filing about the condition of the phone was not accurate.

[Anya Cain]

I mean, I don't know. There's an awful lot of things that turn out not to be true in these filings, so I don't know.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Speaking of that, did you want to move on to Ricky Davis or. There's more stuff you wanted to say about this file.

[Anya Cain]

I think it's very interesting, given the amount of spelling errors that they've had in their filings, that they're dunking on McLellan and some of this for misspelling, impeachable. Listen, you and I have fun with typos, but we're podcasters. We're not making a legal filing before a judge. So the fact that they're doing that, it's just. There's something so petty and weird about this, and it's just like. I don't know. I. You know, I think I've heard people say, well, maybe they're trying to put some of this in to get it in the record, but again, they had their shot to perform. Well, in this case, they didn't. And I just want to emphasize for people who. Who. Who might be wondering, this is not the appeal. The appeal is going to be done by different attorneys. That's down the line. So we'll. We'll be assessing that when it comes out separately. But none of this is an appeal. This is, you know, this is what it is. So let's move on.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So this is the defendant's verified motion to strike. The state's response to. Oh, pardon me, sorry.

[Anya Cain]

I think I put the wrong thing down there. This should be the defendant's verified motion to preserve and produce specific evidence.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes.

[Anya Cain]

So, yeah, so the first thing. Well, let's explain who Ricky Davis is first. Otherwise, people are gonna be like, what? Ricky Davis is a man who was convicted on drug charges and has a history, kind of a long criminal history, including things like forgery, so crimes where he is lying, theft, I believe so. This is a guy who's at the Newcastle Correctional Facility. He's inserted himself into this case by claiming to have information on all sorts of things connected to Delphi. And you know, in true crime, we all know that when someone does that, that's obviously incredibly believable and should be taken very seriously.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Anya, of course, is being sarcastic. Is. Is her want.

[Anya Cain]

Thank you for narrating that.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, I just want to make it clear. I just want to make it clear. So. And Mr. Davis, as it has come out that Mr. Davis at one point reported that Ron Logan made a confession to him, that Mr. Logan was involved in the murders and he provide Mr. Davis provided some details of said confession which were at best wildly inaccurate. Can you remind me what some of those details were?

[Anya Cain]

I believe one detail was that Liberty was killed in the clearing where they were found, but Abigail was taken, abducted from that scene and then brought back and dumped later or killed later, which doesn't make any sense. And that the. The phone battery was removed from Liberty's phone and there was something about burning clothes.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So there were a number of details that Mr. Davis claims that Mr. Logan allegedly told him about the crime which were completely inaccurate. And then furthermore, Mr. Davis was given a polygraph test which he failed completely. So when you have someone saying, oh, I heard this bit of information and that information, you know, from other sources is inaccurate. And furthermore, you know that the person who is making this claim failed a lie detector, you would be pretty safe to assume that the information he is trying to peddle is wrong.

[Anya Cain]

I would imagine that in a case as high profile as this, police probably received quite a lot of wrongful convict of confessions or people tipping in other people who got details wrong, like, you know, oh, I shot the girls or I strangled them or something. And then you can rule that out because no, that's not what happened. That didn't match the scene. So Ricky Davis is very clearly, in my opinion, and I think the opinion of anyone who's freaking paying attention to this thing, not a credible person.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I will go so far to say he's a liar. The story he tells is not credible.

[Anya Cain]

Oh, you don't think he just wants to help the family? Aw.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So that's who Ricky Davis is in this filing. Former defense attorney Andrew Baldwin. I guess he's reentered the case, I guess.

[Anya Cain]

Current, current. For. Remember there was like two sets of defense attorneys in this case at one point, and then defense attorneys for the defense attorneys. It's like Inception with defense attorneys.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Andrew Baldwin says on February 12, 2025, a little less than one week ago, as we record, Mr. Baldwin went to the Newcastle Correctional Facility where Mr. Davis is incarcerated and met with him. And at that time, Davis says Davis supposedly told Baldwin that Logan confessed to him numerous times and indicated that he had committed the crime with two other people and that Logan had provided certain details of the crime that only the actual killer would know. And so?

[Anya Cain]

Well, by that I'm provided certain details of the crime that only the actual killer would know. I guess he meant got a bunch of details completely wrong that did not fit the facts of the case.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes. And I would be curious, what are these details and how would Ricky Davis be in a position to know whether or not these details the only the killer would know, are accurate or not?

[Anya Cain]

You know, sometimes I feel like I've got one of those faces where people just start opening, like telling me stuff. Sometimes, like just not, not even in interviews, just in, like in life, like people are just telling me stuff. And Ricky Davis must be that to the new correct Newcastle Correctional Facility because apparently everybody. And we're going to get to this later, but everyone's just telling him their darkest secrets and he's, he's really in the mix here. So. Interesting.

[Kevin Greenlee]

But again, how does Ricky Davis know whether these details that only the killer would know are accurate or not?

[Anya Cain]

Well, maybe that's Baldwin's editorializing.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Then why aren't these details provided to the court?

[Anya Cain]

I don't know. Maybe it would make people take the filing less seriously.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So then Mr. Davis further informed Mr. Baldwin that he also got to know Kagan Klein, as Anya alluded to, and that Kagan Klein started to get very friendly.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

With Mr. Davis. And what happened?

[Anya Cain]

Sorry, like I can't, I can't help but laugh. It's just that this guy is like pretending like he's like the, you know, Forrest Gump of this case where he's like running into every high profile figure and having some meaningful interaction with them. So he says that in March 2024, he's in the same area of Newcastle as Kagan Klein. Somehow, Klein learns that Davis talked to Logan and then starts basically interrogating Davis about his talk with Logan, saying, oh, did he mention me? Did he mention me? And so intrepid inmate sleuth Ricky Davis pieces together the clues and thinks to himself, hmm, this Klein fella may know more than he's saying, I'll try to get to the bottom of this one. And then very conveniently, Klein also corroborated details to Davis you know, that came from Logan. That came from. That came from Logan. Again, supposedly, you know, this is the guy who described the crimes completely wrong. But, but Klein also very helpfully absolved Richard Allen of being involved, saying, no, he wasn't one of the guys. It was, you know, it was me, Logan and someone else. And Klein and Logan apparently, according to, according to Davis's version of this, that Klein told them they were sharing child sexual abuse materials together. And Klein would also help Logan deal with his burner phones and devices because Logan was an old man and not good at technology.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So Kagan Klein, a few times a year, out of the kindness of his heart, would meet in person with Logan apparently and help him access child sexual abuse materials.

[Anya Cain]

He's like the IT guy for pedophiles, I guess, you know, but like, but that somehow there's no actual evidence of any of that, despite the fact that Logan and Klein both had all of their stuff, their property, their devices, everything, ripped apart multiple times by authorities in this case looking for evidence. Yes, I guess that's all part of the COVID up, right? Again, I'm being sarcastic. So, yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And it's worth noting that Kagan Klein's phone shows that he was in Peru, Indiana, using his phone at the time of the murders.

[Anya Cain]

So, you know, that kind of definitively. So Kagan Klein is someone who lies frequently. We've discussed this on the show. And he also, there's evidence that he was not in Delphi that day, that he was in fact in Peru. So how he then suddenly gets to. And I think you brought this up, and I want to mention this. So in this version, Ricky Davis has three people committing the crime. Logan Klein and someone else. So that's interesting. So there's three guys stumbling around the woods and the trails that day.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So where are these guys? Because we have plenty of witnesses. We have plenty of people who were on the trails that day. And they see a person fitting Richard Allen's description there. They don't see a mysterious group of three other men hanging around.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, two other men. Yeah, it's.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So if this crime was committed by three other people, one of whom is Kagan Klein, who is a very large man, you would think he couldn't stay hidden. And we'd have other witnesses corroborating that.

[Anya Cain]

Well, I mean, it's one of those things where I feel, you know, here's the thing about Kegan Klein. I think there were reasons to investigate Kegan Klein and the Klein lead. I think there were reasons to investigate Ron Logan. You Know, investigators looked strongly, I believe, into both of those leads and did not find anything. And I, I think personally we've interacted with Kagan Klein. We've. We've talked to him. We've. We've covered that angle in particular quite extensively. To me, one thing that I always get hung up on, in addition to the phone evidence putting Klein far away from Delphi that day, the thing that I get hung up on is that I believe, and I believe he tried to do this, but he was lying. Obviously. I believe that Kagan Klein is ultimately motivated to benefit Kagan Klein. And if Kagan Klein had actionable information about the killer, he would have been in a position to potentially use that to his advantage when he was talking with law enforcement and facing some significant charges of his own. And he did not do that. Instead, he jerked everybody around. He gave false information that could not be corroborated or that turned out not to be true. And. And that was it. And I, I just personally am of the belief that Kagan Klein, had. He had something that he could have used, had he had a bargaining chip.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You would have used it.

[Anya Cain]

I think he would have used it. So he didn't. And again, like, people can be irrational, but I, I just don't see. I don't see how that would have been something he would have been holding back. And I think with. With Ron Logan, again, it's like he was. They. They grilled him hard. They. They tore apart his life looking into him. He went to jail on a probation violation. He went to prison on a probation violation, I should say, you know, I, you know, it's not like these different leads were like, kind of like dismissed or not taken seriously.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I want to make another point. If we are being asked to believe that this Ricky Davis lead was like, really, really hot, and that McClelland and the evil Odinist conspiracy of which he is an agent was determined to hide this from the defense as part of their elaborate scheme to frame Richard Allen, when they did a very poor job of it because Baldwin and the defense team not only knew about Ricky Davis and his story, but they had access to him. And in fact, Baldwin admits in this filing that he had a meeting with Ricky Davis on March 27, 2024.

[Anya Cain]

Yes. So, oh, my gosh. And this is where things really go off the rails for me. So obviously that means apparently information about Davis did in fact reach the defense because there were meeting, there was this meeting, there was a meeting prior to the trial. And one thing that Baldwin notes at some Point is that Davis did not tell him everything, that Davis gave him an incomplete story at this time, that Davis was not completely truthful with him. You might say. So, like, when you meet someone and they're not honest, and then their story changes to get your attention again, and then it benefits you, are you not the least bit skeptical? You know, if I tell you, Kevin, Kevin, Kevin, I've got some real information on the latest cereal heist down at the Walmart, and you come to me and I give you, you know, oh, some guy named Joe might have been involved. And then. And then later on, you know, your client gets convicted, and then I'm like, no, no, it was Joe and this other guy and this. Like, wouldn't you be skeptical at that point? Yeah, like, you weren't honest with me in the first place. Why should I believe you now? But of course, as we know, this defense team will believe literally anything that remotely in their minds benefits them, no matter how ridiculous.

[Kevin Greenlee]

They say that supposedly. Well, first of all, there's a claim, which we will return to in a few minutes when we cover something else, but there is a claim that Ricky Davis sent prosecutor McCleland as many as eight letters in the summer and fall of 2024 with this hot information. And these alleged letters never allegedly made it to the defense. So remember that for a second. Baldwin then also explains that the reason that Davis did not be fully honest with him did not be the reason that Davis was not fully honest with him in March of 2024 was that at that time, he thought there was a chance Richard Allen might be guilty.

[Anya Cain]

Wow.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And so apparently it wasn't until the trial that convinced him that, no, Richard Allen is innocent. So if that's the case, then these letters that he sent to him prior to the trial, do they implicate Allen? Because the whole reason he's not being fully honest with Baldwin in March is, well, I think Richard Allen might be guilty. And then before the trial, he's writing letters to the prosecutor. So that's just a thought I have.

[Anya Cain]

Maybe he's having Allen telepathically communicate with him from Westville, because, I mean, obviously, he's got to get the. The full triumvirate of Logan, Allen and Klein. I mean, like, you can't make this up. And frankly, it wouldn't even surprise me. So he thinks Allen's guilty at first, but then it gets him more attention if he goes full defense. Right. So he's got to do that. He's got to pivot. I mean, he. He's he's as indecisive as one of these lunatic YouTubers where it's just, they're just jumping from theory to theory and oh, it was Logan. Oh, it was climb. Oh, it was.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Maybe it was both of them.

[Anya Cain]

It was both of them. It was everybody. I, maybe I did it. It's like just, geez Louise. This is not, I mean, like the. I don't understand how people are taking this seriously. I guess when I'm looking at this, this is comedic. This is, this is. It's not a funny situation. But if it wasn't about the horrible, horrible murder of two girls and the continue, you know, nonsense from this defense, it would be almost like, like a comedy, like, of errors. Because it's just like this guy is obviously so full of it and doing anything he can to insert himself into the case, even though it means continuously just changing his story.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You compared it to, I believe, Marvel Endgame.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, no, this is the Marvel Endgame. I'm not a huge superhero person. I did see Marvel Endgame in theaters. I remember, I don't know all the superheroes, but they bring out, you know, they bring out the superheroes and then this isn't a spoiler, but like they're fighting in a big battle and then you see all the superheroes and you're like, oh, there's Captain America or there's Thor, there's Iron Man. And you know, people in the theater were like clapping because they're like, oh, I know that guy. That guy's cool too. This is that for like a very stupid segment of the Delphi online following. This is that for like the Delphi people who are obsessed with the case but also happen to possess zero critical thinking faculties and are extremely online. Because it's like that. It's. It's like that. It's like that kind of end game situation where you're like, oh, no, actually all of them are coming together and are really important. So it's like all the theories colliding. So soon we're going to have a theory where it's. Logan and Klein are the sort of co counsels of the, you know, Odinous conspiracy in Indiana. And the police have been behind it too, all the time. Even though, you know, they arrested both of them and one went to prison for a while for a probation violation and the other one is serving a very long sentence on csam, you know, but. But naturally the police are involved and it's all, it's all just this elaborate thing. It's like trying to Combine all these theories. And what I love about this is that if you know the case and you know the online contingents as we do, maybe you don't, because maybe you have better things to do with your life. But there is a segment of just vitriolic, just awful people, just like really just nuts who have been screaming about how Ron Logan did it forever. They basically became radicalized because some journalist went on a discord and shared her theory. And they've been obsessed with that ever since. And they've, you know, you can, you can, you could probably show them video of Ron Logan not doing it and being in the wrong place at the time, but they would not believe that they are. This is their religion. And I think it's going to be really funny to see some of these people adopt this. Oh yeah, Klein must be involved in their stupid theories because I remember these are the same people who were screaming about how it couldn't be Klein for years. So now they're going to either have to disagree with their defense daddies or they're going to have to get on board the Klein train. And I, it will be a fun, fun thing to see what happens with that.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah. That leads me to something else I wanted to say is that they seem to be taking Ricky Davis's statements about Logan and Kegan Klein and the third man very, very, It's Harry Lime very, very seriously. And so that seems to me to be an implicit recognition and admission that their theories about Odinism were nonsense.

[Anya Cain]

Well, I could have told them that for free a long time ago because.

[Kevin Greenlee]

If you think it was Ron Logan and Kagan Klein and the third man, then obviously it is not the Odinist. And that would be seeming to. You seem to be admitting that. Well, maybe after all, Judge Gould was correct when she said there was no nexus between your Odinist suspects and this crime. And that Nick McCleanland was correct when the answer to the crime did not lie with the Odinist. And so those two people, the two enemies of the defense in their minds, had a better understanding of the crime than they did. Because after two years of work on this case, they seem to be only now getting to the Logan and Klein theories and only now seem to be recognizing the obvious point that their Odinism theories were utter nonsense.

[Anya Cain]

Well said, sir. But please stop seeing the third man because every time you do zither music plays in my head. Okay, can't have that. So, yeah, I think this is, this is, this is. I mean, I think it's ridiculous. I think you're Absolutely right. And I think for people who are taking this seriously, you gotta wonder what happened to Odinism, right? I mean, what that was, we were told that that was a sure thing. And not only was that a sure thing, but that Judge Gull did irreparable damage to this defense by not letting them put on that stupid performance, you know, at trial. But, but now we're learning. Well, I mean, I'm not seeing an Odinism nexus here, but I'm, I, I would not put it past them to try to link that all up, because why not? I mean, we've gone this far. Why not make everything linked up? You know, we're all in the Odin verse now. I mean, I, I don't, I, I, I just, this is just ridiculous and exhausting. I, I think the defense is, is intent on, no matter who it is, no matter what they say, just useful idiots will be utilized in and out of prison to try to keep this running and keep them relevant in the case and keep the headlines coming. That is my assessment of this.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I wanted to mention and read point 16, quote, the defense can produce a witness with admissible evidence that in the months before Mr. Allen's trial, the prosecution received some number of letters from Ricky Davis and those letters had been given to the people investigating the case, end quote. So they are saying they have somebody who can claim not only that the letters were sent, but that the letters were in fact given to investigators. So produce that person.

[Anya Cain]

Well, I mean, this is the same people again who said that Professor Jeff Turco of Purdue could prove that, that Lieutenant Jerry Holman of the Indiana State Police was a liar who twisted his words and gave the defense some wrong idea and a deposition about what his opinion was. And then of course, Turco came out in a prosecution filing saying, no, he was accurate. The defense of the people who's twisting around my words. So, I mean, yeah, I will believe this when I see it. There's talk of a video. Can we talk about that a little bit?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Sure, go ahead.

[Anya Cain]

So this is, they're talking about how Ricky Davis said that he was interviewed and there was a video of it. And basically, well, you know, they need to look at the video. I don't, I don't know if it's a video of just a separate interview or video of his polygraph or both or what, but I, I think, I mean, you know, they seem to be making a very big deal about that. To me, what's important is that they had access to Davis well before the trial and they had the Ability to interview him, get his information, get what he had to say. I don't think producing or not producing a video matters in this context. Am I wrong?

[Kevin Greenlee]

What do you think if a video actually exists? I don't even know if a video exists. What's crucial is they knew the story and they had access to them, to it, to the man. This prosecution case has been plagued with technical issues. If a video was done and it was erased, I would feel comfortable saying that I would very much doubt it was done intentionally.

[Anya Cain]

I mean, yeah, obviously, but I mean, just how much of a problem would that be for the prosecution then?

[Kevin Greenlee]

If an interview with a proven liar, lying was accidentally erased but the people still had, the defense still had access to the proven liar.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. Sounds like it's a really big deal.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yeah, it's not.

[Anya Cain]

I'm being sarcastic. So. Yeah, I don't know. I just. This is, this is low to me. This is, this is just low down nonsense. And I think Ricky Davis seems like he's very, you know, it. Well, we'll talk more about him later because there's, there's more about him. But I, I think the, I just, it's, it's, it's not surprising, but it's striking when you have Baldwin saying basically, well, yeah, this guy lied to me. He covered up stuff because he thought my client was guilty, but, you know, because he thought he was the one of the other guys with Logan. But, you know, we should all believe him because, you know, now he's saying something that's helpful to me. I'm sure if Ricky Davis came out before the trial and said, I know Richard Allen did it. Ron Logan told me Richard Allen did it, that Baldwin would say, this guy's obviously a liar who's, you know, in, in prison, has a history of forgery, theft, has a history of drug dealing. All of that would have been reasonable for Baldwin to say and I would have agreed with him. I would have said we should not be condemning Richard Allen based on the word of a man like this. That's not reasonable. That's not fair. He could be just making this up for attention. It's a high profile case. People of, of all walks in and out of prison, want to be associated with it for whatever reason because I don't know, they have sad lives and they want to make themselves seem important. It doesn't have to be for some, it doesn't have to be for some really complicated reason. It can just be as simple as that. And this is something to do. And the thing Is, you know, if the shoe were on the other foot, I would be saying this guy should not be taken seriously as a, as a person going against Richard Allen just because of who he is and his story is changing and he's not credible, and that the same goes for what he's doing now. And that's just the end of story. I don't feel in most instances that inmates make for good witnesses. There are some cases where you might, again, I've said this, but, like, you might have someone plotting to murder someone in prison and they go to their cellmate, hey, can you hook me up? And then a prosecutor wires up that cellmate. And unless there's a lot of, like, entrapment going on, I, I can, I feel like that can be reasonable. If they're like, okay, here's the plan. We're going to kill this person, I'm fine with that. But in many cases where there's no corroborating evidence and it's just one person's word against another, I don't care. Unless they're giving specific details that truly only the killer would know, I don't care. And that's obviously not what Ron Logan did here because he got so much information wrong.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes. Shall we move on, please?

[Anya Cain]

So Fox59 did a report recently on a letter that they received from Ricky Davis. And we'll go into some of that because it, it's related to some of the things discussed in these filings. Right. And you know it. First of all, just the letter itself is written quite beautiful handwriting, but the words themselves are inarticulate. Inarticulate? Yes, inarticulate. Very confusingly written. So we're doing our best here, but there's, there's things that are not super clear.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And he seems to concede that he failed the lie detector test.

[Anya Cain]

He does. He does seem to implicitly admit that he failed the polygraph examination. It's not super clear. Again, he's inarticulate. But he suggests that the reason he failed it was because he was asked what if what Logan told him was the truth. And he's basically like, how could I know that? I don't know.

[Kevin Greenlee]

In my experience, that's not how lie detector tests or polygraph tests work. No, you don't ask people about the truth or falsity of something that is outside their knowledge.

[Anya Cain]

Also, like, I don't, like, I mean, you could say, well, you're showing deception on this question, but I don't know if that would make you show deception on everything. Else and flunket. I think this guy's just a liar. That's just what I think.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Something else that jumped out to me is back when he was incarcerated with Ron Logan, he says that Logan told him that McClelland was like an old family friend and that McCleland had assured people that he had Ron Logan's back and was basically going to stand up for Ron Logan.

[Anya Cain]

They're going to let him out of prison because he didn't think he did the crime.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Here's my question. If Mr. Davis seriously believes that prosecutor McCleland is a devoted family friend of Ron Logan and is willing to commit improprieties to protect his good friend Ron Logan, then why would he send Mr. McClelan seven or eight letters saying, oh, Ron Logan, your good friend is guilty? If you think.

[Anya Cain]

I hate to break it to you.

[Kevin Greenlee]

If you think in that situation that the prosecutor is corrupt and is knowingly protecting a guilty man who is his buddy, then I would suggest that you would be more likely to send your letters elsewhere, perhaps to the judge or someone else. So that makes no sense to me. And so that. That's something that certainly discredits Mr. Davis even further in my eyes.

[Anya Cain]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if the letters he was sending were, like, just about other things or like, Richard Allen being guilty? Because I feel like. Like that.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Like, according to Baldwin, Davis believed Richard Allen was guilty up until the trial.

[Anya Cain]

Right. It's just a bunch of, like, Richard Allen weird fan fiction about, like, oh, I heard through a guy who was at Westville, and he told me that. And the defense is making a huge deal of this. And it's. I mean, it. Like, it just. This guy just strikes me as a guy who's willing to say anything to be relevant here. And that means switching stories. That means switching focus from Logan, declined Alan, and back again. I mean, just.

[Kevin Greenlee]

There's also in this letter a discussion of these letters that Davis seemed to. There's a discussion of, like, seven letters or so that were, according to Baldwin, sent to McLeland. But in the Lewis letter, Davis says, and I apologize if I'm misreading his handwriting, but he seems to say McCleland knew this as family, communicated that the letters were passed on to McCleland. So is Davis suggesting that these seven or eight letters that he claims to have sent to McCleland were actually sent to family members of his who may or may not have actually passed them on to McCleland?

[Anya Cain]

Oh, geez.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I mean, how do you read that?

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, that's A, that. That is how I read that. Now, we could be misreading that, or it's possible that, again, it's garbled because this guy is completely unclear in his writing. So could be, could be that. But it definitely raises some questions because obviously there's a huge difference between sending a letter to a prosecutor and, you know, sending a letter to your cousin who assures you that she'll post it and send it to the prosecutor who just forgets about it and lets it sit in a pile in her house. So, you know, one of those things is. Is definitely not anybody else's problem, except for Davis is in the defenses. So I, I, yeah, I, I just. It's ridiculous. I, I think, I think it's interesting. I think the, the letter has a quite a petulant tone at times. Davis seems to me to. There's a, There's a genre of person in this case, a type of guy in this case where it's like, I have credibility issues, but I'm upset because no one takes my information seriously, even though I, again, I'm getting key facts wrong. This, this person could be a YouTuber, it could be a law enforcement officer, it could be just anybody. But it's like this kind of entitlement of, like, take me seriously. We demand to be taken seriously. And it, it's usually just clowns. And that struck me. You know, I, I think, I think you even see some of that kind of tone and behavior from the defense teams, like, why is no one taking me seriously, even though I'm saying things that are not true?

[Kevin Greenlee]

In the letter, he's, like, upset because he apparently wanted to wear a wire to try to talk to Logan, and he was told, nah, that's not necessary. And putting a wire on someone and going through all of that takes time and money and resources. And why on earth would you do that when you don't believe the person telling you the story?

[Anya Cain]

There are certain rules about who can be an informant in terms of police investigations, and people who have credibility issues to the point where they've been convicted on forgery charges, I would imagine would, let's just say, not be very high on the list of people you'd even want doing that for you. So even if there had, like, this guy wouldn't have been good for an operation like that, regardless of what this was about, because he's not credible. They can't. I mean, they can't use that. You can't just, you know, you know, Kagan Klein is another person where he's lying constantly. You don't want someone like that in any sort of operation like that because you can't believe what they're saying. So, I mean, I don't know. This, this whole thing, it just the whininess and just, you know, you know, make it about yourself, basically. That's just what's. This letter strikes me as, you know, Ron Logan, to be very clear, was never charged in the deli murders case. He went to prison on a probation violation. It's very clear that at one time they, the police were looking at him very strongly. They investigate. They searched his entire property. They searched his house. I believe there were multiple searches conducted. They found no evidence. He lied to police. On the day of the murders, he, he made a claim, or perhaps the next day, I forget, but he made a claim. Oh, I was going to this fish shop with my cousin. And people say, well, that, that. Why would you lie about that? Well, I believe it's pretty clear from. For this, for me, when you look at it, he is somebody who had a history of DUIs. He's on probation for that. And he probably panicked and just made something up to make it clear that he wasn't the one driving, even though he was. I believe that he was lying to cover that up. I don't believe he was lying to cover up a part in the murders. So, you know, he's there on a parole violation. He was never going to be there forever. Any sort of nonsense about how McClelan's like, pulling strings to get him out, that doesn't even make any sense. I mean, it was a parole violation. So I don't know. It's just ridiculous. In his letter, Davis claims to feel deeply for, quote, them baby girls and families because, you know, he has children. But.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So he was actually convicted of manufacturing meth within a thousand feet of a youth center.

[Anya Cain]

So that obviously cares a lot about.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Children, his deep devotion to the youth of this great land.

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. And.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And so that's why people have wondered why his sentence is so high in Indiana. If you're manufacturing meth within a thousand feet of a youth center, that's considered a class A felony.

[Anya Cain]

Also, you know, for, you know, he's very adamant in this letter to the media that he is not out for media attention. Well, I mean, he could have fooled me. He sure seems bound and determined to get media attention for someone who eschews it. So I don't, I don't know. I, I think this. I, again, I think this is unfortunate. I think what the defense is Doing is they've set up sort of a process, a pipeline, you know, to that will, I'm sure, continue throughout the case where now unstable people, lunatics, inmates with an agenda, whoever, you know, whoever they're feeling that day has a process to, you know, tell us what we want to hear, and we will put it in a legal filing and the press will run with it. And then when you message the press yourself about your, you know, woes in your case and how you were railroaded and how you just want to help and you just, you know, you don't care about the reward money, you just want to help the families, you know, that you'll get that attention, you'll get that spotlight. You can be a little hero. You know, maybe people on, on social media will, you know, treat you like a little rock star. And I. I think that's not. Not good. I don't. I don't think that's helpful. I don't. I don't think. I don't think stuff like this has any merit. And I therefore don't feel like it's a good thing. And I think it just confuses the public. And I think, you know, in an ideal world, I would not want to cover Delphi ever again until perhaps the appeal where we could discuss that, because that would be something that I would be actually interested in. But because this pipeline has been set up, it sort of feels like, you know, it's going to be. It's going to be a long haul. I mean, I think there's some things for people who are seeing media coverage and seeing discussions and seeing filings, there's some things that we could all almost apply ourselves where you can just kind of like almost like almost a checklist a little bit. So, like, this could be helpful to people. Questions to ask yourself when you're reading something or you are looking at a filing or a media story are one. Why was this not brought up at trial? Why wasn't this used before or even pre trial? Like, what. What happened? Like, is it is linked to Odinism? If not, why was this not the strategy? Another thing would be what's not being said in filings. You know, Kevin pointed this out. There were certain elements that the defense alleged in their initial filing. McLeland hit back on that, and then they failed to follow ups, such as the video timestamps of the van. You know, they're saying this proves that Brad Weber wasn't there at the right time. And McLeland's like, no, it doesn't. And then the defense is like, they don't have a response to that. So that's important. What is not being said? And then what is the actual evidence other than the defense's assertions? What's the actual evidence or something. So, you know, the defense has their own assertions in this, and then they bring up Ricky Davis as their. Their little ringer from Newcastle. You know, is that. Is that enough? Do we need more than that? I would hope so. And then I would just say we. When you're dealing with people in a case like this, I wouldn't say this applies to all cases because I think in most cases, parties are acting with a level of, you know, responsibility and adherence to the facts. You know, but in this case, I think this defense team has a history of maligning McCleland, the judge, law enforcement officers, and many others in ways that later oftentimes prove to be completely false or at least vastly exaggerated. And I would say that it is usually better to take maybe everything they say with a grain of salt, maybe everything they say with a whole pound of salt. Maybe it's just not. It's better to not take their word for it alone. That's a checklist that everyone can kind of use when assessing this stuff, because I think that's all really important to remember. And it's. A lot of this stuff just seems to be distractions and it gives the. Kind of. The YouTube crowd, it gives kind of the Reddit crowd. You know, there's obviously good people in both camps, but, you know, there's. There's a lot of, frankly, bad actors in. In some of these online spaces. It gives them all a lot to spiral about and chew on and freak out about. But. But that doesn't mean it's relevant. It doesn't mean it's going to go anywhere. And I really don't see this going anywhere.

[Kevin Greenlee]

It's not going to go anywhere.

[Anya Cain]

Tell me about that, Kevin. I've been ranting.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I mean, it's like a waste of all of our time. The Ricky Davis story is obvious nonsense. At least we're getting to the point where the obvious nonsense is becoming more and more apparent quicker and quicker, that it is a nonsense. We wasted over a year on Odinism. Hopefully we won't be wasting that much time on Ricky Davis. His story is not true. Ron Logan did not kill the girls. Kagan Klein was not there that day. He did not kill the girls. Girls were brutally murdered by Richard Allen. And that happened. I thought it was telling that also that these filings came on the anniversary of the day the bodies of the girls were discovered. There was something really uniquely tasteless about that, in my opinion. It was almost as if they resented the attention being returned to the girls because earlier I'd seen some media stories highlighting the families and maybe this was an attempt to get the focus back on Richard Allen and their false claims of his innocence. And again, he's not innocent. He is guilty as charged and guilty as convicted.

[Anya Cain]

Well said. I don't think there's anything else to say. What do you think?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email [e-mail] if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[Anya Cain]

If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com murdersheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www. Buymeacoffee.com murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the [e-mail] if you're looking to talk with.

[Anya Cain]

Other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Can we talk a little bit before we go about Quints, a great new sponsor for us? I think in one of the ads that we've already done for them, we talked about the compliments I'm getting on my jacket. I know you're a very modest woman, but can we talk about the compliments you're getting on the quince products you wear?

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, I've got two of their Mongolian cashmere sweaters. They're a brand that just does this sort of luxurious products but without the crazy costs. Really? Well, they are. They give you Italian leather handbags. They do like European linen sheets. You have a really cool suede jacket. And I really like the way I look in my sweaters. I like the way you look in your bomber jacket. It looks super cool.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You've gotten a lot of compliments when you go out wearing these sweaters.

[Anya Cain]

I think I have, yeah.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And deservedly so.

[Anya Cain]

Also, like, I'm one of those people. My skin is Very like, you know, like I kind of sensitive. So when it comes to wearing sweaters, like, you know, sometimes it's something too scratchy, like it really bothers me. These are so soft. They're just like very delicate and soft and make. They're wearing them is lovely because they're super comfortable. You're not. You're not. It's not one of those things where you're like, you buy it and it looks great, but it doesn't feel that great. They look great. They feel great. Yeah. I really love them. And you got, you know, your cool jacket. I mean, that's a little bit of a. You're the guy who like wears the same thing all the time. So this is a bit of a gamble for you, a bit of a risk. You got something a bit different.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I do wash my clothes.

[Anya Cain]

I know you wash your clothes, but I mean, you're filthy.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You made me sound awful, so. No, I wash my clothes.

[Anya Cain]

But you don't really.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I launder them.

[Anya Cain]

You don't really experiment with fashion that much is what I'm saying. So this is a little bit out of the norm for you, but I think you really like it and it looks good.

[Kevin Greenlee]

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[Anya Cain]

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[Kevin Greenlee]

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[Anya Cain]

Yeah. Thanks so much to Acorns. Acorns, remember, when you support our sponsors, you're supporting us, and our sponsors make it possible for us to do this job. So we really appreciate them.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We love our sponsors.

[Anya Cain]

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[Kevin Greenlee]

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[Anya Cain]

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[Kevin Greenlee]

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[Anya Cain]

Via is pretty much, I guess you'd say, the only lifestyle hemp brand out there. So what does that mean? It means that they're all about crafting different products to elicit different moods. Kevin and I really like their non THC CBD products. Specifically Zen really helps me fall asleep some Zen can really just kind of help me get more into that state where I can relax and fall asleep pretty easily. And they're just, they've been such a wonderful support to us. They're a longtime sponsor. We really love working with them and they really make the show possible. I'm gonna say this like, you may not realize this, but when you support our sponsors, you're supporting us and it kind of makes us impossible for us to do the show. So if you or one of your loved ones is interested in trying some of this stuff, you're going to get a great deal. It's very high, high quality, high value.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Anya, if I wanted to get this discount you speak of, what do I do?

[Anya Cain]

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