The Long Island Serial Killer: The Sentencing of Rex Heuermann

Summary

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The Long Island Serial Killer: The Sentencing of Rex Heuermann

Podcast: Murder Sheet
Hosts: Áine Cain (Journalist) & Kevin Greenlee (Attorney)
Date: June 17, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee examine a historic moment in American true crime: the sentencing of Rex Heuermann, the confessed Long Island Serial Killer. After years of fear, speculation, and painstaking investigation, Heuermann faced justice for the murders of at least eight women. Áine and Kevin break down the details of the sentencing, the impact on the victims' families, and what sets this case apart from other infamous serial killer stories.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Context of the Case

• The Long Island Serial Killer operated for years, preying primarily on sex workers who advertised online and came from outside New York to the city and Long Island.
• The case is described as a "throwback" to the era of American serial killers, notable due to how rare such cases have become.
• Rex Heuermann, an architect from Massapequa Park, NY, was arrested after a long and mysterious investigation.
• The case did not generate widespread conspiracy theories post-arrest, unlike other recent high-profile criminal cases. Áine speculates this is partly because Heuermann was not "conventionally attractive" and the evidence against him—particularly the DNA—was overwhelming.

  "I don't recall seeing any people arguing that this man was innocent." — Kevin Greenlee [03:07]
  "Because Rex Heuermann...in no way is Rex Heuermann conventionally attractive...but I think they had him so dead to rights" — Áine Cain [03:26]

2. Victims & the Nature of the Crimes

• Heuermann pled guilty to eight murders between 1993 and 2010, though the plea deal did not cover all. He even volunteered responsibility for one additional murder beyond the agreement.
• The victims: Sandra Castilla (1993), Karen Vergada (1996), Jessica Taylor (2003), Maureen Brainard Barnes (2007), Melissa Barthelemy (2009), Megan Waterman (2010), Amber Costello (2010), and Valerie Mack (2000).
• Many victims were sex workers, a detail central to understanding their vulnerability and the coverage of the case.

  "A lot of these women were sex workers...They were kind of being lured in by this Long Island serial killer and then never seen again." — Áine Cain [08:52]

• Bodies were often found around Gilgo Beach, some dismembered, bound, and wrapped in burlap.

3. The Sentencing

• Heuermann received three consecutive life sentences plus additional terms per the plea agreement.
• The sentencing day was described as both expected and deeply meaningful:

  "For anyone following this case, even casually, we knew, generally speaking, what this man's sentence would be...but in another sense, it’s actually deeply, deeply, deeply significant." — Kevin Greenlee [06:00]

• The highlight for the hosts is the hearing of victim impact statements, giving families the rare chance to confront the perpetrator.

  "This is the day when...you are able to look the guilty man...in the eye and tell them basically whatever you want..." — Kevin Greenlee [07:01]

4. Victim Impact Statements

Several family members addressed the court; notable statements included:

• Danielle Mack (sister of Valerie Mack):

  "[Heuermann] does not even have the humanity to feel remorse." [13:43]

• Joanne Mack (adoptive mother of Valerie Mack):

  "Heuermann had failed to touch Valerie’s soul." [15:43]

• Melissa “Missy” Can (sister of Maureen Brainard Barnes):

  "[Maureen] was subjected to calculated, unimaginable evil." [19:49]

• Jasmine Robinson (cousin of Jessica Taylor):

  "Heuermann fills her with so much repugnance, it's suffocating, but I can't let you overtake me." [22:09]

• Dylan Haggart (son of Maureen Brainard Barnes):

  "I never had her when I needed her. She never got to see who I have become." [22:45]

• Elizabeth Meserve (aunt of Megan Waterman):

  "He was not a fearsome predator, but rather a cowardly opportunist." [23:28]

• Amanda Funderberg (sister of Melissa Barthelemy):

  "You can look at me while I'm talking." [26:39]
  (Heuermann reportedly avoided eye contact and showed little emotion during statements.)

• Liliana Waterman (daughter of Megan Waterman):

  "She had hopes, dreams, and plans for the future. She was a human being." [27:14]

5. The Courtroom Atmosphere & Public Reaction

• At the conclusion of the sentencing, the courtroom reportedly erupted in applause—a rare event, but one Áine and Kevin agreed was fitting considering the suffering endured by the families.

  "At the end, I'm not kidding you, you hear the courtroom erupt into applause. I'm assuming that's probably people who are loved ones." — Áine Cain [15:30]
  "They deserve it...go nuts." — Kevin Greenlee [15:41]

6. Reflections on Serial Killers & True Crime Culture

• The hosts stress the importance of framing serial killers not as "fearsome predators" but as "cowardly opportunists."

  "I hate when I see stuff that I feel glorifies serial killers...like, ooh, Ted Bundy...he’s a loser." — Áine Cain [25:43]

• They criticize media tendencies to glamorize killers and advocate for shifting the focus to the victims and survivors.

7. Heuermann’s (& the Judge’s) Statements

• Rex Heuermann's statement:

  "There are no words I can say. I'm responsible for what was said in this room today. The words I would say have no meaning, and I'm going to leave it there at this time." [33:49]

  • Heuermann gave a brief, emotionless statement.

• Judge Timothy Mazai’s rebuke:

  "Are you a little bit sorry for what you did to those poor, innocent women? Eight women that you strangled to death? At least eight that we know of. Are you at least a little bit sorry for that?" (Heuermann nodded yes.)
  "You’ve been described as a very big man, but you’re a disgusting and despicable small man, if you’re a man at all. And you’re a coward. All right, get him out of here." [34:08]

  • The hosts lauded the judge for publicly and forcefully rejecting any attempt to minimize Heuermann's guilt.

8. Law Enforcement and Ongoing Questions

• The hosts note that as part of his plea agreement, the FBI will interview Heuermann for profiling purposes—not to get confessions for more crimes but to better understand his behaviors as a resource for future investigations.
• They also speculate about possible additional victims, especially among unsolved East Coast cases involving sex workers and unidentified remains.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “This case just wasn't… fertile ground for conspiracy theory when it was unsolved… but I think just, it didn’t have any of those elements… where there’s this groundswell of… conspiratorial [interest].” — Áine Cain [03:26]
• “There is so much about the criminal justice system that is challenging [for victim families]… On a day like this, this is the day when they at long last turn the stage over to you…” — Kevin Greenlee [06:00]
• “That’s just… That’s just something so insulting, like, you think your own selfish perversions are above the sanctity of human life.” — Áine Cain [14:28]
• “We don’t need to be impressed or cowed. I hate when I see stuff that… glorifies serial killers… It’s not impressive.” — Áine Cain [25:43]
• “You’re a loser. If the only way you can get sexual gratification is murdering innocent people, no one should be impressed by this.” — Áine Cain [25:57]
• “He was not a fearsome predator, but rather a cowardly opportunist.” — Elizabeth Meserve, aunt of Megan Waterman (read aloud by Kevin Greenlee) [23:28]
• “You can look at me while I’m talking. So this is how cowardly this man is. He doesn’t even have the fortitude to look at the people whose beloved family members he killed.” — Amanda Funderberg, sister of Melissa Barthelemy (read aloud by Kevin Greenlee) [26:39]
• “You’ve been described as a very big man, but you’re a disgusting and despicable small man, if you’re a man at all. And you’re a coward. All right, get him out of here.” — Judge Timothy Mazai [34:08]
• “I think as a society, especially within true crime...what we need to do, I think, is make fun of these people...we don't need to be impressed.” — Áine Cain [25:43]

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Important Timestamps

• [03:07] — Lack of conspiracy defenses for Heuermann
• [08:20] — Contextualizing victims, plea details
• [13:35] — Beginning of victim impact statements
• [19:49] — Melissa “Missy” Can statement about sister’s suffering
• [22:09] — Jasmine Robinson’s emotional address
• [22:45] — Dylan Haggart on losing his mother
• [23:28] — Elizabeth Meserve rebuts “predator” myth
• [27:14] — Liliana Waterman affirms humanity of her mother
• [33:49] — Heuermann’s in-court statement
• [34:08] — Judge Mazai’s forceful closing statement

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Final Thoughts & Reflections

The episode closes with the hosts reflecting on the significance of the sentencing for the victims’ families, the role of law enforcement, and the need to focus on justice and the memory of those lost rather than inadvertently elevating perpetrators.

“…I'm just satisfied that he is going to be incarcerated for the rest of his life and hopefully he will be forgotten and the memories of those he took from us will live on.” — Kevin Greenlee [36:41]

“Hopefully that can be some small comfort to the families.” — Áine Cain [36:57]

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For Further Exploration:

• Lost Girls by Robert Kolker for deeper insight into the victims [08:52]
• Investigation into unsolved cases of missing sex workers in the region [35:59]

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This summary captures the journalistic and personal tone of the hosts while focusing on the key facts, insights, and most memorable moments from the sentencing of Rex Heuermann and the conclusion of the Long Island Serial Killer case.

Transcript

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[A]

And more.

[B]

Quote Today, Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national averaged 12 month savings of $197 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between October 2024 and September. Potential savings will vary. I'm Anya and today we're going to be talking about the conclusion of a serial killer case out of Long island that gripped the country. Content Warning this episode contains discussion of rape, sexual violence and murder. So today is June 17, 2026 and we are here in in Indiana talking about a case that happened all the way in the state of New York on Long island, which is a part of that state that I know pretty well.

[C]

You're pretty familiar with that. Don't you have some family connections there?

[B]

Yes, Suffolk County. And so this is a case that's haunted me and I'm sure many of you for a long time. This is of course the case of the Long Island Serial killer. It was one of those almost throwback type cases because I mean there was a certainly a golden age of serial killers in this country, but you don't them very often anymore. They're considered pretty rare in general. And this was one of those cases where there was a serial killer operating and, and dumping bodies in Long island. And for many years we didn't know who that was. And then out of the blue I remember you and I were in the the Shelby County Courthouse. They announced they got somebody. They've arrested somebody, an architect named Rex Heuerman. And we all kind of waited for answers of like what, what kind of guy is this? What's going on? What's going to happen? Is he the right guy? And you know, obviously the cliche innocent until proven guilty in the court, but

[C]

ultimately he accepted a deal in which he acknowledged his guilt. And another throwback about this case, come to think of it, is that nowadays in any high profile case, there seems to be people who are very quick to try to make arguments that the accused man is actually innocent, perhaps the victim of a massive conspiracy.

[B]

We like to call those people stupid.

[C]

But I don't recall seeing any people arguing that this man was innocent.

[B]

Oh, I have some theories on why that is.

[C]

He didn't seem to attract that type of support that we've seen in other cases.

[B]

Do you know why I think that is?

[C]

Why?

[B]

Because Rex Heuerman, and this is not meant to be unkind. I don't think this thing sort of matters at all. But in no way is Rex Heuerman conventionally attractive. And another big part of it is, I think. I don't know it. They had him so dead to rights with all the DNA across different kind of cases. I don't think his defense attorneys played games like that in the media, from what I could tell. And I just think it was. It didn't have the kind of the grounds, because some cases are fertile ground for conspiracy theories. This case just wasn't. It was more fertile ground for conspiracy theory when it was unsolved. And people could say, well, maybe. Maybe the guy's in law enforcement and they're covering it up. But I think just. It didn't have any of those elements that you typically see where there's this groundswell of kind of interest from people who are conspiratorial. I think that's pretty much it. Anyways, today, what happened was Rex Heuerman was sentenced. There was a hearing in Suffolk County. There was a, you know, extended period of time, I believe, where there were victim impact statements. Unfortunately, this is not a case where there was necessarily a ton of camera access or live streaming. And, you know, maybe I say unfortunately because I like to see the public side of things, but at the same time, for those victims families who've been through so much, maybe they preferred that privacy. So we gotta respect that. But we're gonna talk about everything that happened today that we know about.

[C]

Let's do it.

[B]

Let's do it. My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.

[C]

And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

[B]

And this is the Murder Sheet.

[C]

We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're the Murder Sheet.

[B]

And this is the Long Island Serial Killer. The sentencing of Rex Heuerman. It.

[C]

I'd like to start off by saying something about days like this and that Is that for anyone following this case, even casually, we knew, generally speaking, what this man's sentence would be. We don't necessarily know all of the details about how it would be figured out, but we knew that at the end of the day, he would get a sentence which would guarantee that he'd never take another breath of air as a free man again. So in that sense, maybe a day like this isn't super significant, but in another sense, it's actually deeply, deeply, deeply significant. And that is the criminal justice system asks so much of families of victims. There is so much about the criminal justice system that is challenging for them. They have to put up with a lot. They have to be silent. The whole system is really slanted towards protecting the rights of defendants. So there's good reasons for that. I'm not challenging that, but I'm just saying if you have someone you care about who's the victim of a murder or a violent crime, you are probably going to feel at some point like your voice isn't important. And you are asked so much that on a day like this, this is the day when they at long last turn the stage over to you, the person who has lost a loved one, and you are able to look the guilty man or woman in the eye and tell them basically whatever you want to tell them about what they have taken away from you, how that makes you feel, what you think about them. So this is tremendously important, even if, going in, we kind of knew what the sentence was going to be. And the fact that these victim impact statements are made also makes a day like today incredibly emotional and incredibly sad.

[B]

I agree. Now, before we get started about what happened today, let's just contextualize what Heuerman's crimes are. What exactly is he pleading guilty to? Maybe what he's not pleading guilty to. Let's look at the victims. Okay, let's, you know. And as a reminder, he pled guilty back in April. So we've been waiting a while to have this. He pled guilty to eight killings, although I want to note that the eighth is not part of the deal. It's complicated. He basically added that one and said, yes, I did that one. So let's talk about the victims. The first one in 1993 was a woman named Sandra Castilla. And then in 1996, a woman named Karen Vergada. In 2003, Jessica Taylor. In 2007, Maureen Brainard Barnes. In 2009, Melissa Barthelemy. And in 2010, there were two, Megan Waterman and Amber Costello. Those Are the cases. Oh, and I'm sorry. As well as. I don't know. I don't know if I skipped over her, but I apologize if I did. In 2000. Valerie Mac. So what are the commonalities now? I don't. I've not done the level of deep dive into all of these victims. I think if you want to get to know some of them better. Lost Girls by Robert Kolker, a person we've had on the show, a journalist, excellent journalist, did a great book on this, really centers these women and Lost Girls, discusses how a lot of these women were sex workers. They were specifically sex workers who were oftentimes from outside of New York who would kind of come into the New York City metro area and do their sex work online and sort of the danger that posed in this case, because they weren't necessarily. They were kind of being lured in by this Long island serial killer and then never seen again. And there's a kind of a scattering of where their bodies are found. Some of them were dismembered and sort of dumped in different places. But there were a number found around Gilgo beach in particular, bound, wrapped in burlap. And that's kind of where things got started. And over time, we would see the investigators saying, we found these initial bodies and then expanding the net outward of like, we think he did these ones, too, and these ones and these ones. And so we kind of have seen this expansion in what we know to be now Heuerman's handiwork. So that is one side of things. It's kind of some contextualizing who the players are today. Obviously, Heuerman, he was a married man. He had two children, a wife. He was an architect, lived in a town or I don't know if it's a town or city. Massapequa park in Nassau County. I have family connections there, too, believe it or not. And that's where he's coming from. Sort of not someone who's seemingly living a criminal lifestyle, but is instead one of those classic serial killers, sort of like Dennis Raider, where he has this ostensible normal life. I mean, normal being a relative term, and is, in fact, perpetuating these horrible crimes in the meantime. So he is represented by Michael Brown, the defense attorney. The prosecutor of, rather, the Suffolk county district attorney is Ray Tierney. I've been very impressed with how his. His. His office has very much prioritized cold cases. I believe we frequently get press releases from them just being like, hey, can people publicize these cold cases? They're not even having anything to do with this high profile case. But it just. It feels like they are very much putting resources into that, which is great. And then the judge in this case is Timothy Mazai. And so that's where everyone's coming from. They're all gathered together to do this sentencing and not going to hide the ball. Rex Heuerman was sentenced to three consecutive life sentences and then multiple additional consecutive terms based on this plea agreement, which is, as Kevin so aptly said earlier, should not be surprising to anyone. These women were terrorized and brutalized and likely died in a lot of fear and pain. And I think it's. Hopefully everyone will understand that it's highly appropriate, therefore, that the figure who did this is put away, can't hurt anyone else for the rest of his life. I know there's been some discussion also of the Federal Bureau of Investigation as part of the plea deal, getting some access to Heuerman and discussing the crimes that he's pled guilty to. So that's not a situation where they're trying to get him to confess to more crimes. It's a situation where it's. Let's look at these crimes that you pled guilty to, and you can tell us about that. That can be a resource for folks in the behavioral analysis unit, which is sort of the kind of classic mindhunter thing we all think of when we think of FBI versus serial killers. And, you know, profiling can be a useful tool behind the scenes for law enforcement. And as far as understanding what makes a serial killer tick and what can be some ways to catch them, I

[C]

guess, I believe seven families addressed the court today. Did you want to talk about some of the things that were said?

[B]

Yeah, go ahead.

[C]

Danielle Mack, who is the sister of Valerie Mack, who was murdered by Mr. Heuerman, said that she believes he does not even have the humanity to feel remorse. Indicated that he is selfish. Felt that the lives of people like her sister were just essentially things for him to destroy for his own pleasure.

[D]

Mm.

[B]

That's. That's what bothered for me. Like, obviously, any murder bothers me. You know, if someone shoots a gas station clerk in a robbery, that's evil. That's awful. It makes me angry. But there's something about a sexual predator trading a human being's life for basically an orgasm.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

For basically sexual gratification. That it's like. That's just. There's just something so insulting, like you think your own selfish perversions are above the sanctity of human life. Like, what. What is Wrong with you? Like, I just makes me so mad.

[C]

I should say my source for this is obviously we weren't there. My source is cnn. What sources did you find useful?

[B]

The thing I found the most helpful and, you know, certainly Fox 5 had, you know, as we said, it's not really a streaming situation. And you know, I, we, we are often on the side of like, hey, stream it. We want to see it because we're curious. But, you know, when you have these sensitive moments with family members, I can understand it's, you know, they might prefer that not to be the case. And I think we got to respect that. But I did. Fox, Fox 5 New York had the. A statement from Rex Heuerman, had the judges, the judge, you know, kind of presiding and giving the sentence. And then at the end, I'm not kidding you, you hear the courtroom erupt into applause. I'm assuming that's probably people who are loved ones. The family members, they're cheering. Don't hear a lot of that in court. Right. I mean, and actually it's kind of discouraged, but in this case, you know what, these people have been through a lot.

[C]

They deserve it.

[B]

Yeah, go nuts.

[C]

Well, also spoke was Joanne Mack, who is Valerie Mack's adoptive mother. She said that Heuerman had, quote, failed to touch Valerie's soul.

[B]

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[C]

Another person who spoke was Melissa. Melissa Missy Can. Her sister was Maureen Brainard Barnes. And she spoke about how her sister was subjected to calculated, unimaginable evil. And I can't imagine what it would feel like to love someone the way you would a family member and know that their last moments were spent with this sort of terror.

[B]

It's, it's, it's really, it's horrifying. You know, I mean, it's my, my heart really does go out to these families to know that, you know, these women struggled. These women. Again, that was the thesis of, I think Lost Girls is that you had all these women who were struggling. But the book also really makes it very clear that they were beloved. They had children, they had relatives, they had people who loved them. They in many case were motivated towards sex work in order to get money and make a better life for those around them and help out. They were often from like, economically stricken areas where fewer opportunities educationally, career wise were available to them. And because of that, they turned and, you know, maybe the things available to them would have been basically back breaking minimum wage jobs. They turned to sex work. And they, you know, that doesn't mean that they are bad people and it doesn't mean that they should be treated any differently from anyone else. Sometimes there can be a stigma about that sort of thing. Or, you know, traditionally sex workers have been targeted by serial killers. I mean, that's not something we haven't seen before because they live on the margins because what they're doing is illegal in many places and therefore they might be less come forthcoming with police in certain instances. So, you know, but it's like that doesn't define who they are. They're women, they're just these women. They have like full, full lives. And actually, I think a number of them were sex workers. I don't want to necessarily say every single one was, but I think the vast majority were. So, I mean, and he would use their work to lure them in, posing as a john, and then murder them and after horrifically torturing them.

[C]

Jasmine Robinson, the cousin of Jessica Taylor, another one of Mr. Heuerman's victims, spoke about how Heuerman fills her with, quote, so much repugnance. It's suffocating, but I can't let you overtake me. Yeah, that's also powerful words.

[B]

You hear that from victims families sometimes where it's like, I'm not going to let you win by having my life be ruined now. Like, I'm gonna live my life in honor of My loved one, and I'm gonna forget you. And I think in some ways, that's probably one of the best things folks can do if they can in that situation.

[C]

Heuerman was said to be kind of emotionless as these people spoke. Another person to speak was Dylan Haggart. He was only a child when Heuerman killed his mother, Maureen Brainerd Barnes. He doesn't even get to remember his mother. He said, quote, I never had her when I needed her. She never got to see who I have become.

[B]

That's so awful. This guy. This guy wrecked a lot of. I mean, just. Again, just the path of destruction just because of this one man's selfishness and evil heart. Can't be. Can't be underestimated.

[C]

I thought Elizabeth Meserve, who was. Is the aunt of Megan Waterman, yet Another one of Mr. Heuerman's victims, she makes a good point when she said, quote, that he was not a fearsome predator, but rather a cowardly opportunist. Because I think a lot of the narrative that builds up around some of these serial killers tends to glorify them, like, oh, they are a big predator, blah, blah, blah. But they're not. They're just cowardly people who take advantage of others.

[B]

I think that is so important. We were actually interviewing a wonderful journalist today, and she. We were talking about another serial killer, and she said, this man was a coward. This man would threaten children with a gun to get their, you know, others around them to comply. And that's not brave. That's not. That's not this cool. Like, oh, serial killer. He's doing all these daring things. It's just brazen cowardice and twisting other people in order to do it you want them to do through fear. And, you know, it's disgusting to me. And I'll just, you know, in the case of what we were talking about, it wasn't. It wasn't Rex Heuerman. It was actually a man named Robert Eugene Bershears. He was recently found to have been the perpetrator of the yogurt shop murders, infamous 1991 case that claimed the lives of four young girls in Austin, Texas. And so. But what they found was he didn't just do that. He also did cases in Missouri, in South Carolina, he attacked a woman in Florida. And again and again, he was just this coward who would hide behind a gun, force compliance through that. And I'm. I'm at a point where I really feel like as a society, especially within true crime, I mean, all of us are true crime people, right? So what we need to do, I think, is make fun of these people, you know, I mean, like, we don't need to be impressed or cowed. I hate when I see stuff that I feel glorifies serial killers. And it doesn't often. I think it's usually unintentional, but it's like, ooh, Ted Bundy.

[D]

Ooh.

[B]

It's like, you know what? You know, he's a loser for doing what he did. Okay, He's a loser. You're a loser. If the only way you can get sexual gratification is murdering innocent people, no one should be impressed by this. You know? And frankly, if any of us who are non violent, who are not sexual predators, wanted to go around and, like, overpower people or hit people in the head with a hammer or. Or, you know, pull a gun out of people, then we could do a lot of bad things too. Like, anyone can. It's not impressive, you know, but, like, let's stop glorifying them, you know, this joker in this case got caught because he was, you know, putzing around New York City, you know, throwing out a pizza box, you know, like, he's a loser.

[C]

And along those points, I think another good point was made by Amanda Funderberg, who is the sister of Melissa Bartholomew.

[B]

Pardon me, Bartholomew.

[C]

Yeah, I'm sure I'm not good with names, and I apologize for that. She actually called him out because I think we mentioned earlier, he was kind of emotionless as all this was going on. And she said to him, you can look at me while I'm talking. So this is how cowardly this man is. He doesn't even have the fortitude to look at the people whose beloved family members he killed.

[B]

Well said. You know, I do. So one thing, people. Were there any other victim impact? Yeah, I was just gonna go ahead.

[C]

Okay. Another one I wanted to talk about was Liliana Waterman. She lost her mother, Megan Waterman. She talked about, quote, she had hopes, dreams, and plans for the future. She was a human being. And calling the victims of human beings is an obvious point, but it's. It's an important one. And these are people who not only were not in that courtroom today because he killed them, these were people who would have gone on to lead lives that would have touched so many people in ways that we can't even imagine. It's an incalculable

[D]

loss.

[C]

Other statements were read aloud by the prosecutor, who he said is Ray Tierney, including statements from the sisters of Amber Costello and Sandra Castilla. And I guess that's the bulk of that. You want to talk about the actual sentencing now?

[B]

Yeah. Actually, though, first I want to throw something out there because people. You know, one thing I picked up on was my understanding is from reading the press coverage when, you know, we. I think the kind of classic example of what I'm talking about here is speaking of loser serial killers who are not impressive. Dennis Radar Raider. I don't know why I can't talk today. Dennis Raider, who, of course, was btk Bind, torture, kill, infamous serial killer who operated out of Park City in Wichita, Kansas, murdered numerous people there. He. He was caught just infamously. I'm sure some of you already know what I'm gonna say here. He was caught because he was. He got inspired or whatever by some kind of article revisiting his unsolved crimes. At that point, he got, oh, I want attention again. Then he basically communicated with the police, saying, hey, if I send you a floppy disk, can you trace it? And they were like, no. So he sent them a floppy disk, and they immediately traced it. And then apparently, when he was interviewed by them, he was like, like, you lied to me. It's like, oh, wow. Anyways, so in his. In his case, there was sort of an allocution where he was able to kind of stand up, and he went into. People have kind of described his. His version of this as almost kind of like his Oscar speech, where you could tell he was extremely proud of his killings. And he went into really disturbing detail on all of them. I think, as he kind of spoke through that. People have often said, that's good, because then we know what he did, and it's. We get all the details. And in this case, my understanding is that essentially Heuerman was asked how he killed them, and he just said, basically, strangulation. So people might be wondering, Kevin, why don't. Why don't they make him tell everything?

[C]

Go.

[B]

Go, you know, blow by blow, go into every single detail of how he lured each of these women and murdered them.

[C]

There could be a variety of reasons for that. One could be. It's. It would be, I imagine, enormously painful for some of the victim's family members to hear that and what value it has, perhaps that will be satisfied by the fact that he is ostensibly going to be answering questions and sharing that information behind the scenes with profilers.

[B]

That's my feeling. You know, is that absolutely necessary for the public? Well, I mean, if we're all being honest with ourselves, I'm sure we're curious about it, we want to know. But if we're also being extra honest with ourselves, what. What are we going to do with that information that's a. Going to create a positive change in the world. And the other thing about that sort of thing is that all of that, whether it's talking to profilers, whether it is, you know, telling the court what happened, all of that requires a serial killer who led a double life for decades, to be honest. And that's something that I think sometimes people are a little bit too, like, oh, yeah, of course he'd be honest. Well, I don't. I don't know. You know, if you read the books by, you know, the. The various criminal profilers of old. The Robert Wrestlers, right? What's that guy? I love Greg. Yeah, he's. He's terrific. Oftentimes you'll have them go in, like, some of the chapters they might go in to talk to a serial killer, and that guy doesn't give them anything, you know, like, it's not like, oh, well, now he's done, so he's going to tell us everything. Like, that's. They play games, okay? I mean, they're not. They're not a. They're not upstanding citizens. It's not like, oh, you got me. I'm just gonna spill. That does happen. But let's let. Sometimes I feel like people get their hopes up too much for that. And people are saying, well, what if he killed other people and they're not gonna find that? I mean, obviously that's always a risk. But at the same time, the law enforcement in the area, I'm sure, knows where he was and what, you know, like his modus operandi at this point. I mean, if there are, you know, I think if there are avenues to connect other cases to him, I'm sure that will be done. But the job of the prosecutor, the district attorney in this case, is certainly not necessarily to get him to kind of write a memoir, so to speak. It's to get him to admit to the elements of the crime. And for the defense attorney, I mean, the defense attorney in this case is in a really tough spot. I mean, they have DNA, they have all this evidence, and he's probably trying to navigate things of how can he do best by his client when he doesn't really have a lot of, you know, abilities to change those bad facts, you know. And again, I think it's really important for defense attorneys to be doing their jobs here, too, because, you know, just because there's a lot of evidence against this guy. I mean, the defense attorney's job is to make sure his rights still weren't violated, to make sure everything's above board. So, I mean, that guy also plays an important role, even though it may not feel like it, because it's like there's really hard to defend this case, almost impossible to defend this case.

[C]

And then we haven't talked about this, but I'm going to read what the judge said.

[B]

Oh, can I read what Heuerman said first?

[D]

Okay.

[B]

Because then I want you to read what I was going to ask you to read what the judge said. The judge was. I love the judge.

[C]

I was gonna say just reading this without even talking about it with you.

[B]

I love this guy.

[C]

It's so Anya coded.

[B]

Yes, it's me. Code. I'm like, yeah, get it.

[C]

Why don't you read Huberman, then I'll read the judge.

[B]

Yeah. So Heuerman. It's not long. Heuerman says, there are no words I can say. I'm responsible for what was said in this room today. The words I would say have no meaning, and I'm going to leave it there at this time. That's it.

[C]

Okay, here's what the judge said that I found. So Anya coded. He's addressing Heuerman, and he says, quote, are you a little bit sorry for what you did to those poor, innocent women? Eight women that you strangled to death? At least eight that we know of. Are you at least a little bit sorry for that? He were. Men nodded yes. And then the judge says, you've been described as a very big man, but you're a disgusting and despicable small man, if you're a man at all. And you're a coward. All right, get him out of here.

[B]

Yeah, got him. Love the judge. You know what he's voicing? He's voicing what I think needs to be said in a situation like this, which is, you know, this is not somebody who made a couple of bad choices. This is not somebody who made selfish choices a few times and ended up with deadly results. This is somebody who hurt, desperately hurt, vulnerable women and then acted like their lives didn't matter at all for years as he went home to his family and acted normal and held down a job, and he deserves to be raked over the coals verbally by this judge for that. Now that he said, yeah, I did this. I did this to these. These women who were human beings and had lives and had people who loved them, and I took them away from all of that for my own Selfish nonsense. So I was like, good, good for the judge. You know, I think that needs to be said. Taking a human life means something. Doing so because you're a sexually motivated predator really means something. And it needs to be called out as such.

[C]

It does. And as we say, he is not going to take another breath, is a free man, which is certainly appropriate.

[B]

He's done. He's get, get him out of here. I think the thing for maybe all of us to do is, is, you know, if we, if we want to be looking at the case a bit more, I think where people kind of, you know, when people start trying to attribute too much to one serial killer, it can kind of get like, okay, we're kind of stretching this here. But I think it wouldn't be, I don't, I don't think it would be necessarily bad for anybody to maybe look at unsolved missing persons cases involving sex workers in that kind of east coast region. Some of these women were coming from other places and, or were originating from other places and maybe looking at that, maybe looking at unidentified remains. Since he was known to dismember some of his victims, I think all of that could be helpful.

[C]

But anyways, I agree completely. I, I'm just satisfied that he is going to be incarcerated for the rest of his life and hopefully he will be forgotten and the memories of those he took from us will live on.

[B]

Absolutely. And hopefully that can be some small comfort to the families. But, yeah, I think that's all we had to say on this one. Right.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

Well, thank you all so much for listening. We really appreciate it.

[C]

Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email [e-mail] if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[B]

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[C]

Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the web@Kevin TG.com if you're looking to talk

[B]

with other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.