Anya Cain (3:52)

Right.

Kevin Greenlee (3:52)

So these are some of the things I look for in a sentencing hearing. And do you want to recap the crime or do you just want to.

Anya Cain (3:59)

Yeah, let's recap the crime quickly. So Dan Markell was a. A law professor. He was somebody who went to Harvard Law School. He clerked for a federal judge, and he was also on the faculty at Florida State University as a law professor. So this is a very impressive man. But his life, as many of our lives are, was not perfect. Right. So he was getting a divorce from his. His wife, another law professor named Wendy Adelson, and things got very contentious. And this all boiled up to the point where on July 18, 2014, he was shot as he arrived back at his house in Tallahassee, Florida. That day, he had done just ordinary things like going to the gym, dropping his young, two young sons off at daycare for the last time without realizing that. And he was hunted down by these two hitmen and killed. And again, this is 2014. We're talking over 10 years ago, over a decade ago. And justice has been slow in this case, but it has been, it has been coming along. So what. What authorities have unraveled so far in, in Florida is that the two hit men who actually pulled the trigger and got away that, that morning were Luis Rivera. He was the getaway driver. And in 2016, he pled guilty to second degree murder and got, I believe, 19 years in prison, although I believe some of that was to be served concurrently with another sentence. So I think in total, it was seven years. And the trigger man was Sigfredo Garcia, and he was convicted in 2019. He got life plus 30 years for conspiracy to commit murder. So obviously, the conspiracy charge raises some questions. Okay, a conspiracy to do what? Did these two guys just have something against professor Markell or was. Was there something else going on here? Authorities felt like there was something else going on there. And with help from Rivera as a cooperating witness, they pieced together a conspiracy. So the next person on the list, as far as the police were concerned, was a woman named Catherine Magbanua. She was connected to the victim because her former boyfriend was the brother of Wendy Adelson. That was Charlie Adelson. And she was also connected to Garcia because he was the father of her children. So she was accused of being the point person, the connection between the Adelsons and these hitmen, where she's essentially being asked by Charlie Adelson to arrange this. She's passing on money. She's part of this conspiracy to kill this man. So she was ultimately convicted of first degree murder as well as solicitation and conspiracy. She got life in prison and, and 30 years, I think, too. So the next one was. Was Charlie Adelson. This was from November of 2023. And he was also sentenced to life without parole and 30 years for solicitation and conspiracy. And I believe all that was going to be consecutive. So Charlie Adelson, again, was the brother of Wendy Adelson, Markel's ex wife, who he's like divorcing. He's like the youngest in the family. And he was said to be, by some testimony from family members, unusually close with his mother, Donna Adelson. Now, Donna Adelson is Wendy's mother, and she was put on trial and sort of posed as the mastermind, along with her son, Charlie Adelson, that these two were essentially having her own son in law killed because of this contentious divorce. And specifically within the divorce, there were. There were concerns about custody of the children. There were concerns about where the children were going to live. You know, there was. There was, you know, a sense of. Wendy Adelson wanted them to come back to the family's kind of domain in Miami, and Markel wanted to keep them up in Tallahassee. There were, there were just. There was. It was just like a very nasty divorce. So the theory became Donna and Charlie essentially schemed to get rid of this. This son in law, brother in law because. Because of this so very horrible case, two young boys were left without their father. Markell's family was distraught and destroyed by what happened to this. This, you know, young man who had a lot to offer the world. It's just a horrible situation all around. But that's kind of where things went. So Donna Adelson went on trial very recently after some delays, and she was found guilty. I mean, on all counts.

Kevin Greenlee (9:04)

On all counts. So now it's time for the sentencing, which happened yesterday. And I guess as a defense attorney, you want to go in, I guess. And the ideal situation is maybe your client doesn't want necessarily to admit guilt, but be respectful of the process. Be respectful of everyone involved. Act humble, be very sympathetic, pathetic, just to make things a little bit easier for yourself. And let's see if that's what happened in just a minute.

Anya Cain (9:34)

My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.

Kevin Greenlee (9:37)

And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

Anya Cain (9:39)

And this is the Murder Sheet.

Kevin Greenlee (9:41)

We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're the Murder Sheet.

Anya Cain (9:49)

And this is the murder of Dan Markell. The sentencing of Donna Adelson. So some background about Donna Adelen. She is 75 years old, and she was the mother of three married to Dr. Harvey Adelson. And the family all worked through, I think, or at least she. She worked. And she worked through her husband's dental practice. That was kind of where they were working at the time all this happened. She was retired, but she was someone who was described by her oldest son as sort of the matriarch of the family, the power behind the family. She was maybe a bit domineering. That's how she was described at. Through this testimony. And that she was unusually close with Charlie, and he was kind of the one who was very like, reliant on his parents and reliant on his mother in particular. So.

Kevin Greenlee (11:32)

And I don't mean to be crass or insensitive, but let's be realistic. When you have someone who's been convicted of a crime who is older, you have to consider the fact that any lengthy sentence is likely to be a life sentence.

Anya Cain (11:50)

Yes. On top of that, she also got life, which is, as we learned, there was no surprise about that in. In Florida, she's convicted of first degree murder. So she gets life. That's it. It's just set in stone.

Kevin Greenlee (12:04)

It's set in stone. That's what I said kind of at the beginning. A lot of the time in these sentencing hearings, we know how it's going to end. But what might be interesting is how we get to that point.

Anya Cain (12:16)

Exactly. So I'll kind of set the scene as far as, like, how how all this went down. Cause we were watching it. So Donna Angelson appeared. She's. She's wearing some sort of like, purple jumpsuit, her hands arching.

Kevin Greenlee (12:29)

Yeah, let me just jump in to make clear we weren't there.

Anya Cain (12:31)

Oh, no, no, no, no.

Kevin Greenlee (12:32)

Yeah, we were watching this. Courtesy of the YouTube channel of the Tallahassee Democrat.

Anya Cain (12:38)

Yeah, oftentimes a local news station or a local news provider will have some kind of stream, if that's allowed. And so we always want to support the local journalists. So I'm going to include a link to there, you know, if anyone wants to watch or kind of skim through some of the highlights, you can watch it there. It's about two hours.

Kevin Greenlee (12:56)

Yeah. Anya told me she's happy to go and stand in line for hours in the cold Indiana weather to see a trial session here in Indiana. But the idea of going down to Florida where it's very pleasant, the weather is very temperate and delightful, she said, absolutely not. We're watching it on YouTube. So that's what we did.

Anya Cain (13:16)

You know, you know, like, honestly, we've. We've started getting back into trial coverage. Like, in all seriousness, we've gone to like a hearing recently here in Indiana. And then we want to kind of be able to watch some of these things, at least remotely, but for a long time. Whenever the concept of us going back to do another trial after the Delphi case, the, the song that would play in my head was the Fleetwood Mac classic from Rumors, Never Going Back Again. And, and, and all the things that happened at the Delphi trial would just flash before my eyes as that Lindsey Buckingham tune would play in the background. So, yeah, that's. That's what would happen whenever I would think maybe we should do another. We'll. We'll get back to it. But it's just. There's been a. It's been a recovery process. But anyways, this one was a lot easier thanks to the Tallahassee Democrats. So shout out to them now. So. So Donna Adelson, she's in this purple jumpsuit. Her hands are chained. She's. She's an elderly woman. She's wearing these big glasses, kind of gray, frizzy hair because she's been incarcerated. And in the beginning, it just kind of. The camera's on her, she's breathing and she's crying a bit. And Harvey, her husband, is also kind of pictured. He's in a suit. He's just sort of in the gallery staring ahead, very grim faced, taking breaths. And there's a turquoise box of Tissues on the table before Donna. And it's mentioned at some point that the Dan's family, the Markell family, is attending via Zoom. And it turned out that they were attending via Zoom. And there were also a number of defense witnesses who were brought up who were also. Or at least one. I should. I should just say one who was also attending via Zoom.

Kevin Greenlee (14:59)

And so it's a new era.

Anya Cain (15:01)

It is a new era. So they're. They're all. They're all in this, and. Yeah, I'm just curious about that, Kevin. Like, I mean, I know, like, is that. Is that controversial? I mean, like, I mean, doing Zoom, I guess that's just for the convenience of everyone in this situation. It's different from someone offering, like, testimony at the trial.

Kevin Greenlee (15:18)

Yeah, it. It just makes it easier. You just. You just said it's easier for you to watch these things via Zoom. It's easier for everybody. And I would imagine it could be difficult logistically or emotionally for some of these people to actually make the trip there, to be there in person. So, yeah, it's no reason not to use Zoom.

Anya Cain (15:41)

So the prosecution was represented solely by Georgia Kaplan. She was the lead prosecutor in this case, representing Florida, of course. And there was also Sarah Dugan, who was there throughout the trial, but was not at this instance. And the judge was. The judge was Stephen Everett, and he not only presided over Donna Adelson's trial, but he also presided over the trial of her son, Charlie Adelson. Stephen. The honorable Stephen Everett, I thought, was such an impressive judge throughout this hearing. And, like, this is the kind of guy who is just a calm competence where I feel like I've always had, like, a thing where I'm like, if I ever was in a situation where I would have to land a plane, I think I would mess it up. I think I would, you know, not be able to do that. But I feel like this guy could talk me into landing a plane because he just has this, like, demeanor that's so, like, okay, we're just doing this. And I just. I salute to. To Judge Everett, because I thought he did a. A very good job, especially under some circumstances in this sentencing hearing that were kind of weird, but he was very calm. We all love true crime. That means getting to know a ton about some scary stories and situations. We are all aware of the danger, but that means we can prepare for the worst and possibly protect ourselves and those we love.

Kevin Greenlee (17:09)

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Anya Cain (17:37)

I love that SimpliSafe doesn't force you into long term contracts. Plus they have a 60 day money back guarantee so you can try it out without committing right away. They provide you with agents that monitor your home. These agents can detect possible prowlers and intervene before the break in even happens. The agents can just hop on a two way audio system to confront the intruder and set off the sirens and spotlights. They're not reactive, they're proactive keeping your family and property safe from all harm.

Kevin Greenlee (18:07)

Try out Simplisafe. We have and we love their proactive approach to home security.

Anya Cain (18:13)

Right now my listeners can save 50% on a SimpliSafe home security system at simplisafe.com msheet that's simplisafe.com msheet there's no safe like SimpliSafe. So the Adelson team, the defense team was led seemingly by Jackie Fulford. She's a former judge and an attorney. And the other one representing Donna Adelson today was, was Josh Zellman. So those were the kind of teams as far as. And those are the kind of the figures that, that are that are there. So first they get into the after some pretty strong zoom issues and they're those repeated throughout. So I mean again it's not just the Delphi trial. Technical errors all, all abound in in any case. But presentencing report was discussed and there were I guess before we get into this what is a psi? What is a pre sent or the psi? I guess I don't know. I think they called it a PSI at one point. But what is a pre sentencing report?

Kevin Greenlee (19:20)

Basically it's a confidential document that includes everything a judge might need to know about a person before passing a sentence including here are some reasons maybe you should go easy on the person or here's some reasons why you should go hard on the person. They, they can contain very confidential, very personal information. They can also contain things like employment history, family history, just anything that you think you might want to know about a person before passing a sentence on them.

Anya Cain (19:52)

That makes sense. And so what Fulford was doing for, for this opening bit was she was finding typos as well as things that were wrong in the presentencing report. So what would be important for like a defense attorney to like correct stuff like that? You know, do you just want it to be accurate going into the record?

Kevin Greenlee (20:10)

You want it to be as accurate as possible going into the record. And God forbid there's like a typo or something in the presentence report that might affect your client's sentence.

Anya Cain (20:22)

So just about being meticulous.

Kevin Greenlee (20:23)

Yeah. And you also want to have an accurate record for the appellate courts.

Anya Cain (20:28)

Yeah, that makes sense. So that, that's what Fulford was doing. Some of them were pretty minor, just like a little bit like of a misspelling or something. And then others were, you know, one of the grandchildren was said to be a female. It was actually a male. One of you know, they, they're, they said that her employment paid a certain amount. They were saying, hey, she's retired. That's not true. So you know, and they got the arrest date wrong. So yeah, there's always typos, there's always errors. So it's about just in anything. Yeah. And it's about just making sure that we're being meticulous here in that wrong information. So those were all corrected and it was amended in that way. And the Kaplan did not have any objection to that. So it was, it was all brought about. And, and as for the, the arrest date, she was arrested at the Miami International Airport when they were trying to get on a plane with a one way ticket to Vietnam, which does not have my understanding, has no extradition treaty with the United States. So that's odd. But that occurred on November 13, 2023.

Kevin Greenlee (21:30)

And Vietnam is a lovely country, but I don't think a lot of people just travel there casually for vacation with one way tickets.

Anya Cain (21:37)

Well, I will say, like I do know tourism there, as far as Americans are concerned, has gone up a lot in recent years. And so I think it's definitely more of a destination now than it once was. But as you said, one way ticket, that, that looks pretty bad obviously. And the charges that she faced in this situation that she was convicted of were first degree murder, conspiracy to commit murder, and solicitation of murder. So those were just. When we're talking about counts one, two and three, that's what we are talking about. Then there was some prosecution, housekeeping, there was discussion about how much was, you know, how much things cost. And like the defense wanted supporting documentation and I think it came up to like over $700,000. So obviously cases like this can be pretty expensive. Was, was my understanding and then they got into something called a score sheet. And this was something I was not really familiar with, but I did some research and I guess in Florida they have score sheets around sentencing to essentially allow the judge to put together almost a rubric of, you know, what is the offense, what are the mitigating factors, what are the aggravating factors, what is this person's criminal history. And based on those things, they score the sentence. So that just made me think sometimes you and I have discussions about judges discretion in terms of sentencing and how that seems to have shifted over time. In the past, perhaps there was more discretion allowed for a judge.

Kevin Greenlee (23:16)

Yeah. Nowadays a lot of what judges do in the sentencing process is kind of written in stone. They don't have as much leeway as they may have used to back in the old days. For better or for worse.

Anya Cain (23:32)

And even in Florida, as I mentioned, first degree murder, instant death penalty or life without parole, there's no option. The judge can't say, oh, well, you know, I don't think, you know, you deserve that much. So like, there's certain things like that where the judge's hands are tied.

Kevin Greenlee (23:47)

And let's, let's talk about that. An argument would be, well, maybe it's better if judges have discretion and can look at each defendant on an individual basis and try to determine, oh, this person needs this sort of punishment as opposed to this type of punishment. And that would be that argument. But the argument on the other side would be if Anya and I commit the same crime in different parts of the state and face two different judges, we may end up with two very different sentences. If they have the ability to do it on an individual basis, is that okay? Is that fair? And it also raises the issue, what if one defendant gets a much worse sentence and it's arguably because of something like race or something like that. So that would be the argument. Let's just have definite standards as opposed to the more individual standards.

Anya Cain (24:45)

I agree. You know, there's obviously downside. I can think of one instance where a detective, where a case, rather a judge, I believe, saved lives by handing down what probably seemed like a, you know, more extreme sentence. And that was. We talk about this a lot on the show, but there was a rapist named Donald Forrester who was connected to the Burger Chef murders investigation. And I'm very convinced he was not involved in the Burger Chef, but he.

Kevin Greenlee (25:11)

Was a very dangerous, violent man.

Anya Cain (25:13)

Pure evil. Pure evil.

Kevin Greenlee (25:15)

And he committed a rape and he was sentenced to 95 years.

Anya Cain (25:20)

This, and to give you a Sense. He's. He and his cousin stalked this woman who is sort of like hanging out with a friend late night at a Denny's in Castleton. They stalked her. They ended up basically getting her to pull over, and they abducted her from the car, forced her, raped her as they were driving away. And it's a horrific case. And it's one of those things where it was like, if he'd gotten whatever your standard sentence back then was, he'd have gotten out and he would have killed people. I'm. I. I don't have any doubt in my mind.

Kevin Greenlee (25:54)

He was an extraordinarily violent man. And he got a sentence again, 95 years, which is much worse than some people would even get for a murder.

Anya Cain (26:02)

And that's because the judge looked at him and said, this guy's a mad dog and we need to keep him locked up for the safety of the women of Indiana. And that was correct. And everyone else, frankly. So there's stuff like that where I'm like. But at the same time, as you said, there can be. There can be biases. There can be. Maybe you look at a white defendant more sympathetically than a black defendant, that's not fair. That's going to be. That's going to be kind of imbuing a judge's own. Basically, it takes really good judges for something like that to work. And a lot of judges are great. And then other judges, they're going to be biased, they're going to be overly harsh, they're going to be overly lenient. So I can understand why legislators kind of ultimately, like, went more with the. Like, let's not give them a lot of discretion element.

Kevin Greenlee (26:47)

And I understand why judges are frustrated by that, because I've talked to judges who are very frustrated by it. They say, why shouldn't I be the one to make some of these determinations about the person in front of me, as opposed to people in the state legislature who may never have even stepped foot in a criminal courtroom in their lives.

Anya Cain (27:06)

And this. This actually, believe it or not, became a bit of an issue in terms of how things went down in this. In this situation.

Kevin Greenlee (27:14)

Let's get back to it.

Anya Cain (27:15)

All right, so. So they're debating over the death points. Ultimately, the judge sided with the defense. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't even mention that. So the death points are. Are part of the score sheet. Death points are essentially like when there's a death caused by a crime, essentially, there's going to be points that are allocated to that, and it's they're going to be more extreme points. So for the, some of the charges, the defense was saying, hey, solicitation is the crime in and of itself. You can't add death points to that. And the judge agreed with them. And apparently this had been a problem with Charles Adelson's sentencing. So he was siding with them again. And you know, that, that was that. So the prosecution made their argument very briefly. I just want to say Georgia Kaplan really projected a lot of confidence. She was barely kind of speaking in this whole thing, but she, she seemed like an impressive figure throughout this case. So she was essentially saying, obviously we want life on count one, because that's what you have to do. Then we want 30 years consecutive on count two, and then 30 years concurrent to count two and consecutive on count one. What the heck does that mean? Well, I always get confused because they both are words that start with the same letters. And I'm a simple woman. But consecutive in the terms of the criminal justice system, as far as sentencing goes, means that you have to serve it back to back. So if I get life, let's say I get 30 years and then consecutive 30 years again for another count, I have to serve 60 years. 30, then 30, right?

Kevin Greenlee (28:55)

Yeah.

Anya Cain (28:56)

Concurrent means I get to serve them both at once. So I'm only serving 30 years. Even though I have two 30 year sentences, I'm serving them at the same time. It's better for a defendant to get concurrent. So what the state was doing was saying, we want life, so she's going to die in prison. But then on top of that, we want these, this 30 years that can be served concurrently with each other. And I think things like that can be a bit of a strategy where for some reason like a murder conviction gets thrown out, maybe the solicitation and conspiracy charges stick, and then she's still in prison for 30 years and she's 75, so she will likely die in prison. The prosecution did not have any more testimony to add to this. That was pretty much all from them. And from there we went to the defense and the defense introduced some witnesses, one of whom was on Zoom, another of whom was in person and several of whom wrote letters to the court. Actually, two were in person, so things got pretty wild. But anyways, so the first one up was Dr. Ben Graebert. He was there to make a statement on behalf of the defense and on behalf of sort of supporting his friend Donna Adelson. And he is an interesting figure. He is actually a former state legislator in Florida as well as Being a physician. And he. So, okay, so first of all, there's like a billion problems with the Zoom. It was not Dr. Graeber's fault. It was just the system. The judge saying things like, time to troubleshoot. And then he mutters at one point and, like. Cause he's the one who's having to figure this out. You know, he's asking people to say, 1, 2, 3. It just reminded me of us, some of our Zoom interviews. And then he mutters, a judge and a Radio Shack man all in one.

Kevin Greenlee (30:50)

I'm curious, Anya, you're a young woman. Do you, as a young person, did you understand the Radio Shack reference? The way a person of my generation.

Anya Cain (30:57)

I know what Radio Shack is. You forget, I was a retail reporter for many years, Kevin. I had a life before I met you.

Kevin Greenlee (31:04)

Radio Shack is not a business that has been around for a while, and usually I hear older people making RadioShack references.

Anya Cain (31:11)

It's not something that I would, like, be my go to reference, but I know what it is. It was an electronic star chain. Right?

Kevin Greenlee (31:19)

Yeah.

Anya Cain (31:20)

Okay. But, yeah, so I knew what he was. I didn't think he was like, I.

Kevin Greenlee (31:23)

Think, is it completely gone?

Anya Cain (31:25)

I actually don't know. I don't know. But, I mean, the brand memory remains.

Kevin Greenlee (31:28)

Yeah, I understood that you were a retail reporter, so I would expect you to know those things, but I guess I was mistaken. Let's. Let's continue.

Anya Cain (31:36)

I know what Radio Shack is, but.

Kevin Greenlee (31:38)

You don't know if they're around or not.

Anya Cain (31:39)

Oh, my God.

Kevin Greenlee (31:40)

Let's. Let's continue.

Anya Cain (31:41)

Oh, it. It's not my beat anymore, man. So Dr. Graeber talked about how he was friends with the Adelens since 1979. He said they spent 20 years pretty close, engaged in lots of activities together, but he hadn't seen them much in 20 years until this trial started happening. I thought it was really odd that he mentioned that, because it sort of feels like a lot of things can change in 20 years. Like, you know, like, if. If we. If we're close with someone right now. Jump. 20 years. Who haven't seen them in 20 years. I'm not going to be like, I'm. I'm. I'm completely certain that everything's been great for this person ever since. I just thought that was weird. Like, I don't know.

Kevin Greenlee (32:20)

And of course, 20 years ago, you were in elementary school, right?

Anya Cain (32:22)

So I've changed a lot. A lot's gone down. So. So, yeah, so he talked a lot about his credentials, being a professor at The University of Miami, the University of Florida medical schools, being a county commissioner, being. I think he said he was the mayor of something. He says hi to Donna. It almost seemed like someone who was just like, I. I don't. I'm not saying this disparagingly, but it was almost like he was more there for Donna than for the actual thing. It was almost like, hi, Donna. Shout out to Donna. You know, he wasn't saying like that, but it was like she's crying and getting emotional. He said, I wish I could be there to hug you. Sorry we didn't have that dinner after your trial was over. I guess they expected an acquittal. And he talked about how, like, his background is similar to the Markels, and he was born in a displaced person's camp in Germany after the Holocaust. Talked. He praised Dan Markle's articles about compassion and the loss. He was an impressive man. And he's. His theory of the crime is that Donna is a victim because she was exploited by her son Charles, who, you know, and Donna was the youngest child in her family, so she'd be sympathetic to Charles, who was the youngest child. So he basically used her to. To do this and that she's innocent. And, you know, the zoom pops up. He's this guy with a mustache, and he. He says he's. She's innocent on all counts. And the victims are both the families. And this is where I wrote down the following question, who cares what this guy thinks? And. And I guess, like, I don't mean that in a harsh way. I can understand being emotionally attached to the idea of your friend's innocence, but I was surprised by the tone and tenor of this and the content of his sort of statement because. Well, and you can. You can speak to this a little bit, but I thought things like this, having a defense character witness was more about praising the person and saying that why they deserve leniency versus trying to relitigate the verdict.

Kevin Greenlee (34:20)

So I guess he was arguing that she deserved leniency because the whole trial was wrong.

Anya Cain (34:25)

Is that a good strategy?

Kevin Greenlee (34:28)

I don't think so. I don't think it really makes a lot of sense. I think some of this stuff is largely for the benefit of Mrs. Adelson, that people are playing to her instead of playing to the judge. It's not the point of a sentencing hearing to relitigate the trial. A sentencing hearing is not an appellate hearing. If there were problems in the trial, if, hypothetically, she got a wrong trial that led to a wrongful conviction, that will be looked at in other venues. That's not why we're here. And of course, anybody's entitled to an opinion. Anybody is entitled to believe that she is innocent. But that doesn't change the fact that right now, legally speaking, she is guilty. And your opinion otherwise doesn't really mean that much to a judge. If I go into Red Lobster and say, you know what? I think this shrimp, the price of it should be cut in half, okay, I'm entitled to that opinion. But no one is going to say, okay, Kevin, we're going to change all of our menus just because of your opinion. It's just.

Anya Cain (35:47)

Yeah, I think, I think a lot of people in life would be. Would. It would be good to remember that, like, our opinion doesn't always matter and that's not always the time and place, and we don't need to necessarily use every opportunity as an opportunity to spout that opinion. Especially since, like, you know, when it's not.

Kevin Greenlee (36:07)

And you say that, you say that as a podcaster, you make your living spouting your opinion.

Anya Cain (36:11)

Yeah, I do. But there's certain instances where, like, I'm not. I'm not gonna, like, there's certain cases where if I haven't, like, looked into them sufficiently, I'm not gonna come down on one side or another. I'm just not. It's not that I will never have an opinion. It's just like. It's like, I don't feel comfortable doing that. And in this, even in this case, I mean, I followed along the Adelson trials and these related things, but without, like, doing the deep dive that we would normally do, that we would do in other cases, I'm not going to come down and be a partisan for one side or another. It's more that I just feel that in this case, it was just. There's a certain arrogance about kind of foicing your opinion in situations that doesn't. Doesn't warrant them. And it's sort of like, again, who cares what you think? You know, like, the jury is the only people. The jurors are the only people that matter in that situation. Not you, not what this guy thinks. And he's like, flouting all his credentials. And it's like, I get it. This is a. This is a charged situation for people. I totally get that. So I understand maybe not being at your best and coming into things in a more charged up way than is necessary. I'm trying to be compassionate here for someone who, you know, like, is in the situation, but at the same Time. It's just sort of like, I don't know. It's not the time nor the place. He was saying things like, you have four victims who have been found guilty of murder. I think he must have gotten the wrong word there, because, I mean, obviously the murderers aren't the victims. Dan Markell is the victim, and he said two have committed the murder. Maybe one. The others are conspiracy theories, end quote. I don't think something is a conspiracy theory when it's presented in court and the jury agrees with the state. Like, you know what I mean?

Kevin Greenlee (37:51)

A theory is something. Oh, I'm arguing that this particular set of facts is true. This is my theory. But when then a jury agrees with you, then it becomes a conspiracy fact.

Anya Cain (38:05)

Yeah, conspiracies do happen, and in this case, she was literally convicted of conspiracy, so doesn't really sound like a theory anymore. He. He talks about how, like, you know, he was the one he was working with, you know, around sentences, around life without parole as a state legislator, and, like, it's not intended to be used against the average citizen. What, like, what is that? You know, like, what do you think.

Kevin Greenlee (38:25)

He meant by that?

Anya Cain (38:27)

I don't know, but it kind of raised my hackles. Why does Donna Adelson the average citizen and someone else isn't. Is it because she is a woman or affluent or white? Why is she an average citizen? Yeah.

Kevin Greenlee (38:40)

Is the implication that good people shouldn't get it? It's just like, people who don't have money or have a different color of skin, those are the only ones that deserve this punishment.

Anya Cain (38:50)

Oh, the gangsters. You know? You know, if you're in a conspiracy, you're acting like a gangster. No matter what color you sk. Is and no matter who you are and no matter how much money you have and no matter how nice your upbringing was and. And yes, I mean, in fairness, maybe that's not what this. What Dr. Graeber was referring to. I'm not. We don't know what's in his head or in his heart. I just. I great at the idea that there's a. A way, you know, I don't know, like an average citizen versus a super criminal.

Kevin Greenlee (39:18)

You know, like, so graer grades on you.

Anya Cain (39:22)

No, no, no. I mean, like, I don't know, he might be a very nice person and, you know, he's obviously done a lot in his community. I'm not. It's just. I guess we do a lot of true crime podcasts, and the idea that, like, somebody can't be a murderer just because they don't fit the. What people expect in terms of the profile. You know, grandmothers can kill people too. Perhaps. Typically you're going to be looking at a male offender or a younger offender or. Or an offender who's into drugs. Right. But it's just we know that other types of killings can happen for different reasons. And I. Great against the idea that there's like the average citizens versus the super criminals because our criminal justice system is supposed to be everyone's equal under the law. And the idea that, you know, like, oh, it's not for them, it's for, you know, it's for these people. I just, again, that may not have been what he was trying to convey. I just, it bothered me a bit. And, and so that's why I, I said something about that because I'm, you know, I, I mean, am I. Am I right or am I overreacting? What do you think?

Kevin Greenlee (40:28)

I mean, you have the right.

Anya Cain (40:30)

Kevin, on the.

Kevin Greenlee (40:31)

Kevin, you have the right to your opinion.

Anya Cain (40:35)

But like you're, I mean, like, in terms of like. I think it's fair to say that most criminal offenders are probably people who are doing a lot of crimes. They've got a criminal history and they're probably young males because that's just typically who commits crimes.

Kevin Greenlee (40:47)

That's fair.

Anya Cain (40:48)

So Donna Adelson doesn't fit that typical profile. But that doesn't mean that women can't get involved in some pretty nasty stuff too. And if they do, then they should be sentenced accordingly. So there's. Yeah. So the judge at some point interrupts and says, is this being offered as character because he's not an expert on the law. And so there's a pause and you know, he says, well, it's just my personal experience. And he says the judge should. The judge and the jury should show compassion. I, I think their, their job is to kind of find the fact and uphold the law, but. Okay. And talks about how Donna Adelson is a five star mother. She has no bad intentions, she's a follower, she's the baby of the family. It's not. Sometimes bad things happen to good people. And then he brings out Dan Markell's two sons, teenagers, and says, well, they should, they shouldn't be affected by this. So give her a lenient sentence, I guess. And he says, sandy, and I love you. That's his wife, Sandy. God bless. Yeah. No one cross examines him again. I understand what he was trying to do. I find it very odd that someone's not in touch really. And not close to a family for 20 years and then they jump back in to do this. It just raises the question of, like, what does that really add? Because you haven't seen how the dynamics have changed or morphed or what's going on recently. You seem to just be getting involved because there's a crisis, which just doesn't really lend a lot of credibility, I think, to what he had to say.

Kevin Greenlee (42:15)

Fair.

Anya Cain (42:15)

Even if it was well intentioned, even if he sincerely believes that. It's just that that was a hang up for me, not so much. Some of the things he said were pretty surprising in terms of kind of attacking the court and the jury verdict, but I thought more so. It was just like, hey, you know, I get having a hard time feeling your friend did this. I mean, there's certain people, if they were involved in something like this, I would be shocked. Right. We never think our friends are going to be terrible or do terrible things. And we can even support our friends and think they were wrongfully convicted and that's okay. But there's a time and a place for that, those kind of statements. And then there's the sentencing hearing where it's really more about saying, hey, here's why this person is great and deserving of leniency, even though, I mean, on some level I get it, because that's a moot point. She's going to jail for life or she's going to prison for life, because that's the statute. But the next person was there in person, an older gentleman who had been sitting next to Dr. Harvey Adelson, Rick Shaman. He was. He walks up to the podium on a walker, took out his phone. He talked on behalf of himself and his wife Susan, who he says is an attorney at law, called Donna Adelson, their dear friend and Travel Companion for 35 years, and said that it was so unfair, if there had been a change of venue, she would not have been found guilty. So she was tried before a Tallahassee jury. He said that, you know, the defense asked for a change of venue. It was too, too much bad publicity until Tallahassee should have been moved and the judge once again came in and said, these are character statements or quibbling about the evidence in the rulings.

Kevin Greenlee (43:52)

And it sounds like he was just quibbling about the judge's earlier rulings. We're all entitled to have our opinions, but as you keep saying, this is not really the time or the place. And if you're trying to influence the mind of the judge who's about to Make a decision on a sentence. Maybe that's not the best time to say, boy, did you screw up this trial.

Anya Cain (44:14)

Save it for media appearances later, I would say, you know, like. But in, in the courtroom, in the judge's courtroom, um, again, it's not gonna make that much of a difference for her ultimately, but probably would be looked on more favorably.

Kevin Greenlee (44:30)

And if the decision not to do the change of venue really was a mistake, it, it will be dealt with at the appellate level. Yes, it doesn't need to be dealt with here at the sentencing.

Anya Cain (44:42)

There were then letters from a number of people. These were people who were not speaking, but they were read into the record by, by the attorneys. So it was Jackie Fulford specifically was doing this one from Annie Cunningham and Ron Gutterson. They testified at the trial. They said they known Donna since 2009. She's so caring, kind, loving. Not the monster the media depicts. She's almost 76 and she's innocent. Please take these factors into consideration. I don't think a judge can take in the innocence because the jury did not say that. So, I mean, if that had been a factor, then we wouldn't be here. A woman named Ruth Rosenberg. She talked about some of her family history with Donna. She emigrated to the United States from Israel when she was young, didn't speak English, went to high school, you know, went to school in Queens. And Donna one day in seventh grade, walked over to her table where she was alone and asked her to join her friends. They had a 62 year friendship. They were like sisters. Donna would get her jobs. Ruth was the maid of honor. At their wedding, their family visited together and said, that is not the person I know and love. And so I thought this was better as far as letters go, because it really was going into her personal relationship with Donna and Donna's positive qualities. And it was. She said, that is not the person I know and love. But she wasn't harping on specific rulings or things like that. So, I mean, this was more what we would expect. Ms. Rosenberg's letter was much more in line with what you would expect. And I thought that was more effective because it was.

Kevin Greenlee (46:11)

But I think you said the letter you thought was the best was the next one, the one from Mr. Ellis.

Anya Cain (46:16)

Yes, this was. Ron Ellis said he knew Donna for 30 years. Steady and caring presence. When Ron Ellis's Stepson died at 34, Donna was there and helped him a lot. And so he said, I understand the gravity of, of the conviction and whatnot, but just please weigh some years of kindness, care and humanity. She can still contribute posi. Positively, I thought. Whereas Ruth got into that personal stuff, this got into really more of the purpose of a sentencing hearing of saying, like, not even gonna, Almost like he, I don't, I don't think Mr. Ellis was weighing in on whether or not he thinks she's innocent. He's more saying, I get that there's a conviction, but please consider this, too. And that's really what you would want, I think.

Kevin Greenlee (46:57)

Yeah, I agree.

Anya Cain (46:58)

I thought that was a very effective letter. And he gave an example about how he went through something and she was there for him. That was effective. Very brief letter from Marian and Tim Chavman, and they talked to her about how she was an exemplary daughter, had pride in her family, never heard her utter a negative word, and she was intelligent, charismatic and sensitive. Again, since this didn't get into the legal issues, I thought this was fine. Jessica Usury.

Kevin Greenlee (47:22)

Can I, can I say something? Yeah, yeah, it's good. They didn't go into the legal aspects and just tried to focus on her character. But sometimes when you hear people say, oh, I knew this person so well, my dear friend, they're so wonderful. I never heard them say a negative word about anybody at any time.

Anya Cain (47:42)

How good of friends were you then?

Kevin Greenlee (47:44)

Well, yeah. Do we believe that? I don't know anybody in my life who I've never heard utter a negative word about something.

Anya Cain (47:52)

I think the closer you are to someone, the more likely you're going to hear what they really think. And I know that's my experience. Listen, I'm not the kind of, I'm, I taking myself as an example. I'm kind of shy. I think I seem like an extrovert in certain situations, but I'm, I'm, I, I'm a bit, I don't know, I just feel a bit shy sometimes. Like, I, I, I don't, I get nervous with social interactions and whatever. And, like, if I meet you for the first time, I'm not gonna be like, oh, gosh, let me tell you about all these opinions on people I don't like because I don't want to come across badly. And there's certain people that, where I would never really do that with because it's just not the appropriate situation, or we have, we have a friendship, but I'm not going to, like, give them all my dark secrets or, you know, kind of be really super, like, you know, negative about other people in that situation. There's just some relationships that are not going to go that way. And then there's other relationships. We're going to tell the person everything, and they're going to know all about, like, oh, here's, you know, unfiltered Anya coming. And it doesn't even have to be.

Kevin Greenlee (48:59)

One extreme or the other. I'm serious. I don't think I've ever met a man, woman, or a child in this great nation who I've never heard utter a negative word. Everybody I've ever interacted with has had something negative to say about something or someone at some time.

Anya Cain (49:14)

I'm thinking sometimes when we meet people, especially through podcasting, they might kind of be like, oh, well, I saw this guy doing this. And we're like, oh, yeah, they do suck, you know, so, like, even in situations where you don't know someone that well, you might actually let that out. And I. Yeah, it just seemed a little bit. Again, I. I would say that less says anything about Donna Adelson and her being negative or not negative. We know from evidence included at trial, including some very disturbing and upsetting emails where Donna Adelson said some very horrible things about Dan Markell, the victim in this case, we know she's capable of being negative about people. That doesn't make you a murderer. I'm not saying that, but it was evidence here. So the idea that, well, she's never said anything negative to us, it's like, okay, it sort of gets into the. There's like the Ted Bundy factor of it, all. Right. I hate when people are like, well, he was nice to me. He didn't kidnap me, murder me and cut my head off and then, you know, become a necrophile with me. Yeah, that's why we're talking right now, because you're not dead. But sometimes people do things to some people and not others because they have a problem with those people or because they have some sort of pathology where they're trying to rape and murder people. It's like, not everyone is bad to everyone. You know, if you can do something bad just to one person or just to a group of people or, you know, it doesn't make, you know, I'm not going to go into a store with my friend who's African American and then have her come out and say, wow, they were really racist to me in there and be like, well, they weren't racist to me because I'm white. You know, like. Like, there's certain people who are going to have different experiences, so it's stupid to. I mean, listen, I'm sure these people Are just trying to be helpful, but it's just. I don't think we need to take it super seriously. When someone's just like, they're so perfect. And they were never. They never seemed like someone who would try to kill me. It's like, yeah, I know.

Kevin Greenlee (51:01)

Would you even want to be friends with someone? If there's a person exists who never says anything negative about anything.

Anya Cain (51:08)

Sounds really boring.

Kevin Greenlee (51:10)

There's the classic quote from Teddy Roosevelt's daughter Alice. She said, if you don't have anything nice to say about someone, come over and sit by me.

Anya Cain (51:21)

That's us.

Kevin Greenlee (51:25)

And it's just human. That doesn't mean you're always saying negative things about. I think everybody is human. We all have negative thoughts. We all have negative opinions. If you're ever with me when I'm eating fish, if it doesn't meet my high standards, oh, I'll have something to say.

Anya Cain (51:39)

Kevin's gonna be pretty negative. Your letters to the court, would people be like, well, Kevin was really such a nice guy. Never said anything negative except about some food, except experiences that he had. But that's pretty much what dominated the conversations, actually.

Kevin Greenlee (51:53)

And he also had very, very strong opinions against Stan Lee and Vince Coletta.

Anya Cain (51:58)

We never heard him say anything bad about anyone except some of these comic book figures.

Kevin Greenlee (52:04)

But, yeah, Vince Coletta was a very bad comic book anchor. Just to explain. I know, but, yeah, the dear listener may have gone through life and doesn't realize what Vince Coletta did to some great art. But continue.

Anya Cain (52:17)

God. So the next letter was from Jessica Usury. And she talked about how Donna and her share beloved grandson and that her daughter Brianna got with Donna's son Charlie, and they had a baby. They didn't stay together, but she said Donna was very warm and nice during the birth and very caring and supportive of Bri. And again, this is an instance where that's all very nice and good, but obviously, like, you know, the issue with. With Dan, the victim here, is that he was going up against the Adelson family. He was doing something they didn't like. So you can get a different reaction from people based on what they perceive you to be doing for or against them.

Kevin Greenlee (52:57)

Right?

Anya Cain (52:57)

Right. Someone who worked at the Adelson Institute, Erica Johnson, and this was a institute affiliated with the Adelson family, obviously said Donna was a beautiful person, very nice to employees, kind to elderly patients, very considerate, and asked the court to consider the positive qualities of this woman. I thought this, again, was another positive one. This was. This was one I thought Was well written from Ms. Johnson. And there were a couple of like those that I thought were good. And then Gary Cohen, I thought was. Was. Was good. This he was. He's actually an attorney. He's the member of the Florida bar and he was personal counsel for the Adelsons. Obviously not in the criminal sense, but just, you know, people need lawyers for other non murdery things and how. Dr. Adelson was his dentist. They socialized the family socialized. Never heard Donna raise her voice. Never heard a bad word. Loving marriage. Great mom can't comment on whatever happened.

Kevin Greenlee (53:47)

Yeah, this part is. You can tell, you can tell he's a lawyer. I can't comment on any alleged events. I never would have thought this would have happened. But I believe in the jury system. I also think she's a great person. Good night, everybody.

Anya Cain (53:59)

Lawyers.

Kevin Greenlee (54:00)

Lawyers talking on both sides of their mouths. Our specialty.

Anya Cain (54:03)

Yeah, it is your specialty. But I thought it was good that he at least acknowledged that the jury system is a good one. Right. I prefer something like this over people being like the jury's idiots.

Kevin Greenlee (54:13)

You know, like I never heard a bad word again.

Anya Cain (54:17)

Apparently she's not giving bad words to a lot of people, but she's putting some in some emails she's sending. So it's like maybe you're just not getting that she's not including you in that circle of trust and that's okay. But let's not act like that means it can't happen. So the next one, this one got, you know, like, whoa, you know, here we go. The next person who came up for the defense was Dr. Harvey Adelson. This is Donna Adelson's husband of over 50 years. And he was. She started quite quietly weeping when he was talking. He's very stony faced. He's clearly angry. Talked about how she sacrificed everything to pour her heart and soul into their children and grandchildren and their marriage. He said, this Summer was our 54th anniversary. I had to spend it without her. She's done nothing as being punished for a crime she didn't commit. And he said he had to sit in court for the entire trial and scream in his mind because witnesses were being brought forward for the prosecution who were telling outright lies. I didn't know you could lie in a courtroom, but apparently you can. So what do you think about him? Other people question the verdict. He's definitely attacking like the whole process here.

Kevin Greenlee (55:26)

Didn't he also call the judge biased?

Anya Cain (55:28)

Oh, we're getting there. He said that in court. Dan Markel's parents said they never saw their grandchild for years. But she said, but he said that Wendy, his daughter, had shared pictures and videos of them and texts about visits and. And so he said these were lies to court about grandchildren. And you know, his wife is loving and caring and innocent of all charges. He said, quote, a biased judge and jury were influenced by years of one sided news pieces, end quote. Why don't you jump in? Because. Well, because the judge is about to jump in.

Kevin Greenlee (56:00)

Yeah. This is not the point of what should be happening here. Basically what you expect to happen is friends and families of the convicted person are going to come up and say, judge, this person was convicted. But they're great, they have a great character, they're wonderful. You should take this into consideration when you sentence them. And that's called character evidence or character testimony. And instead this person is just using this platform to attack and that's not what it's there for. And I think it's important in life, not just in court. You figure out, okay here, when I'm at this particular event, I want something to happen. Here's what I'm supposed to do to make it happen. And he's not doing that. He's just venting. He's just getting a chance to tell the public his own views about alleged deficiencies in the process. He's entitled to his views. He's entitled to share them. I don't think this was the most productive time to share them.

Anya Cain (57:07)

I don't either. I wonder if it's an attempt to try to like sway the media more for like the appellate section or whatnot. But I don't really know if that would work here. I think the media, in fairness, has been pretty. When I see headlines, when I see reporting on this, I think it's mostly been pretty even keeled. But I think there is, I don't really see like an innocence movement for the Adelsons. Like, I don't really see the people being like, no, no, they're being railroaded. I don't, I don't see that at this point that could change. That could always crop up. But.

Kevin Greenlee (57:42)

Well, here's the thing.

Anya Cain (57:43)

I don't think they're sympathetic enough for people.

Kevin Greenlee (57:46)

Well, and also the fact of the matter is if you've ever had anything written about you, you're going to be inclined to judge it harshly. And if anybody says anything unkind about you, you're going to be inclined to say, well, that's not fair. So no matter how down the middle coverage may be, if you're the subject of that coverage, you may take offense, but again, ultimately, that doesn't really help with whatever you're trying to accomplish today.

Anya Cain (58:14)

And appellate court will deal with that.

Kevin Greenlee (58:16)

Which, presumably today, you're just trying to convince the judge your hands are tied to a certain extent in the sentencing. But I want you. I want the world to know my wife is a sympathetic person. My wife is a good person. Even if she's done terrible things.

Anya Cain (58:34)

You don't have to say that. You could just say, even if she's been convicted of this, yes, maybe you throw in a quick aside at one point. I believe she's innocent. But you move on, and you really just focus on why she's such a great person. So there's a long. So the judge jumps in and says, this has nothing to do with character evidence for the defendant. The. The lawyers kind of come in. They huddle up. There's a long, awkward pause. They're whispering, and they're, like, marking up his paper, Harvey's paper. And then he thanks the judge for letting him continue, and he says that he's sending an innocent woman to prison. So he goes right back into it, and he's taking his wife, therefore his life. And what it's. What's going on is not justice. It's vengeance. It's wrong. So no one examines him. And after that, things got even more surprising for me. I guess I wasn't that surprised to see Dr. Adelson testifying. It is his wife, after all. But then we heard from Donna Adelson herself. So the defense attorneys are all whispering, and they say, no further witnesses, but we want an unsworn statement from Donna Adelson. The judge pushes back and says, everyone needs to be sworn. But then the. The attorneys make the argument that defendants can make an unsworn case. They provide some citations. The judge takes a while to check out the citations, and he agrees with the defense. He says the citations support what they're saying. So he can make. She can make an unsworn statement. Can you tell me and the listeners, for people who may not be aware when we're talking about an unsworn statement versus a sworn statement? What. What's the difference? What does that even mean?

Kevin Greenlee (60:08)

Well, when you make a sworn statement, you're taking an oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Anya Cain (60:14)

So help you God?

Kevin Greenlee (60:15)

So help you God. There you go. I guess the main thing from a legal point of view is that if you're making a sworn statement, if you lie in that statement, you may be subject to perjury charges.

Anya Cain (60:31)

So she was allowed to do an unsworn statement. She thanked the judge for letting her speak. She just spoke at the council table. She had this very kind of almost quietly desperate, frantic energy. And she started out by praising the victim in this case, Dan Markell. She said that her son in law was a fine and decent man, passionate about his career, caring father and a good son in law. And then she kind of went into almost like a narrative about this case and it was almost like she's like recounting it. So she's talking about like July 18, 2014. A car's following my grandson's father. She's tearfully recounting his death, him being hunted, can't imagine the fear and his efforts to stay alive because he didn't die immediately. And how this death has been such a loss for his children, his parents, his sister, all his family, friends and colleagues. She's kind of like raising her voice and yelling a bit. She talked about how his sons each have a photo of him and that are by their beds and for years they would kiss that photo and say goodnight Abba, I love you. Abba means father. And she talks about how she tried to help the boys through the trauma by sharing love with them. And she says so at first like I, you know, I, I understood what she was doing there. It was sort of like, kind of like I couldn't have done this. I love, you know, there's like I would never have done this. My grandsons at least. But she then said, kind of goes into this attacking the state. We're saying the state can't make up its mind about who's the mastermind behind this murder. First it's Catherine McBano, then Charlie Adelson, now, now this grandma. Referring to herself, she said the people who did this are where they deserve to be. I thought that was interesting. I don't know whether it was vague, but I don't know whether she, I mean like that could be referring to her own son who's already been convicted and his ex girlfriend and certainly the hitman.

Kevin Greenlee (62:24)

It could be referring to herself.

Anya Cain (62:26)

I don't think she was referring to herself. She was definitely pretty adamant about her own innocence. She said without one iota of actual evidence, where is the evidence prior to the murder? Evidence beyond reasonable doubt. The judge cuts her off and says is the defense trying to re argue the trial here? And the defense counters no, we're just giving Mrs. A.D. adelon an opportunity to be heard. And he said she can continue, but, quote, the court can take into consideration the utter lack of remorse that you are displaying, end quote. She kind of shook her head almost slightly and kind of a bit dismissively after that warning. She said that they were just, they were trying an innocent person, end quote. She said it made you wonder if the jurors were sleeping when the state had one of their witnesses on the stand for hours who testified that her phone was never at her son's house on the day of the murder. And. But they still pushed this idea that they did some kind of money drop throughout the remainder of the trial. She said Tallahassee had way too much publicity about her family. They needed to be held anywhere other than Tallahassee. And the jurors at voir dire with the jury selection answered yes. When they said if they knew about the trial brass, if they knew about the trial or the case rather. And they. Some said even, I believe she's guilty. She started calling out like one specific juror at one point. And at this point I just wrote down, jesus Christ. And then the judge interrupted and called out to the defense, being like, this has nothing to do with allocution of any sort. This is a raising of grievances which are properly given to the appellate court. What does any of this have to do with the sentencing? End quote.

Kevin Greenlee (64:06)

Excellent questions.

Anya Cain (64:08)

Then there's like a silence and someone's phone goes off and he immediately is like, turn that phone off or step out. End quote. So after a long break, Donna Adelson continues and takes off her glasses and she says, what happened to Danny is unforgivable. But I am an innocent woman convicted of this crime without evidence. She talked about how a brilliant legal scholar like her late son in law would be, or her former son in law would be appalled by this. And she said that there have been two crimes. Murdering Danny and then taking her life, taking Donna's life. She said she's never gotten a parking ticket before. This is a murder she did not commit. And she plans to appeal.

Kevin Greenlee (64:48)

She's very, very aggrieved.

Anya Cain (64:49)

Yeah. Never would have wanted Danny to be harmed or killed. She loved his sons and they didn't deserve this. And she swears on her life she was not involved in the murder. She's kind of crying and then she, she's done and she starts wiping her nose and eyes with tissues, breathing, kind of stony faced, and.

Kevin Greenlee (65:08)

A real sense of personal grievance.

Anya Cain (65:11)

Most of this stuff was, as the judge said, a series of personal grievances. It really didn't Feel appropriate, I guess, for the. The setting. But, you know, people are gonna do. And I imagine the defense attorneys are just kind of like, whatever our client wants it. You know, if she doesn't say anything that really hurts her appeal, then it's probably no skin off their nose, you know.

Kevin Greenlee (65:38)

Right.

Anya Cain (65:39)

Like, why not just do it? But, you know, I mean, she. I mean, like, I just want to reiterate, like, this. This woman said some really horrible things about her. I mean, like, it's not like this kind of idea that she was just like, oh, it's so awful. You know, she would, like, attack him in really personal and kind of horrible ways in some of these communications. And again, that doesn't make someone a murderer. But the idea that, oh, everything was just great, you know, she. I think at one point she was threatening to, like, I don't know, like, you know, I think there were diff. Disagreements is between disagreements between these parents in this case about how, you know, where their children were going to live and how they were going to be raised religiously. And she was making some pretty horrifying comments about that. That was just. That was not okay. So, I mean, the idea that it's like, oh, we all love Danny is. I mean, what do you think about that? Like, the evidence is entered to the contrary, but then she's like, kind of talking like this.

Kevin Greenlee (66:42)

Yeah, it's not too compelling. And as we keep saying, this is not the time or the place. Whatever issues she has, whatever issues her team has, there is an appellate process where they could be addressed.

Anya Cain (66:57)

Like, she suggested having the kids convert to Catholicism. He was a devout. He was. He was a devout Jew. I mean, that's like. That's not okay. Like, that's a really messed up thing. Like, you know, just to mess with him. Like, that's. That's disturbing. And that was. And that was with the idea that she was going to kind of like, drive a wedge between the children and their father. And again, I get. People say things when they're angry, people write things when they're angry, but it just kind of flies in the face of this idea that, you know, all was good there. I just. Yeah, that. That struck me as being, again, his faith was incredibly important to him. So the idea that a grandparent would try to intervene in that in any way and. And. And get between their. These children and their father in that way, in a. In a way that would really flout everything he stood for and flout something that was precious to him is disturbing to me on some level. And it kind of shows the depth of kind of this acrimony between these groups. So anyways, they talk about the lack of remorse, and the Zellman says, well, the lack of remorse cannot be factored in terms of a sentence because that would be a violation of her due process rights. The judge says, well, the supreme Court ruled on this. And then he brings out a citation. He talks about in another case. The defendant was, quote, not or not, quote, forced to choose between allocation and the maintenance of his innocence. Certainly could have allocated without voicing his disagreement with the verdict, blaming the driver, the police, his lawyer, the trial court for his conviction, and attempting to explain his personal interpretations of the law to the judge, could have asked for leniency without admitting guilt. He could have provided the judge with reasons to impose a sentence less than the maximum because his claimed innocence. But he instead chose to make a lengthy statement claiming innocence, denying responsibility, and placing blame for his conviction on the alleged misconduct of others. The trial court was under no obligation to ignore such statements, did not err in considering those statements and imposing the legal sentence here, end quote. So it's basically, if you do stuff like this, you could be hurting yourself.

Kevin Greenlee (69:10)

Exactly.

Anya Cain (69:11)

And it's not, you know, you don't have to say, I did it, but you can not attack the court's work. So the. They have some arguments on sentencing. Um, the defense wanted to essentially have the judge take into account that, you know, this is where they kind of got more with the reality of the situation. It goes from being, she's innocent, she's innocent. Where the defense attorneys have to be like, listen, she's still saying she's innocent. We're going to appeal. But if you take the jury seriously and take that verdict into consideration, even if she's guilty, she was a relatively minor participant in the crime. Therefore, she shouldn't get as harsh a sentence as the others. She should get something less. So they are. They argued and they said basically the state didn't prove that she was a mastermind. You know, they didn't. They didn't get there. So that was what the defense was saying. And the defense was like, other people involved in this crime definitely belong in prison. And we don't think that Dan Markell should be lost in this. And they presented evidence about how he didn't deserve this and how great he was, and they understand where the Markell family is coming from, where they blame the Adelsons. But. But whatever. So they also asked for some housekeeping things for the judge to recommend that Don Adelson be incarcerated as close to Miami as possible because that's where her husband is and that she should be kept separate from other. The other person who's a female convicted in this case, Catherine Magbano. So the judge does agree to make those recommendations. He. The Florida Department of Corrections is not bound by them, but he did make those recommendations. And he said in terms of downward departure, meaning, like, maybe they would kind of get some. Get something for the defense on this side of things. He's saying he. He basically declined to exercise his discretion there. He said, you know, like, you know, he has discretion over that, and he's not going to. Not going to do a downward departure there. So he has Donald Adelen rise, and then he says, quote, the level of planning and coordination to bring the murder of Professor Marel to fruition was significant in this case. These were not crimes of chance or opportunity. And these crimes also required you to conspire with your son and others. You certainly can choose to deny your involvement and maintain innocence. Court finds the evidence, and this court is clear in this case is clear. You will be sentenced accordingly. This afternoon, the jury has found you guilty on charges of first degree murder, conspiracy to commit first degree murder, and solicitation to commit first degree murder. And the court previously adjudicated you guilty as these same charges on September 4th of this year. So for the first count, life imprisonment without the possibility of parole. The second, 30 years consecutive to that, and the third, 30 years concurrent with the second charge. And Donna was pretty stony faced as that was read. And deputies sort of lead her away without fanfare, and camera stays on her as she signs some papers. She's let out a door by some female deputies. And then the camera lingered on Harvey for a moment, talking with one of the lawyers. And the deputy holds a door for him. And that was it.

Kevin Greenlee (72:28)

That was it.

Anya Cain (72:29)

So a lot of people speculate that there could be more charges in this case against other members of the Adelson family. Obviously, this all started in 2014. It's been a long, long road for the Markell family, for people who cared about Danny, and for everybody. But I'll be curious to see what else will happen, but there's no guarantees. Obviously, these conspiracy cases can be really, like, lots and lots of layers.

Kevin Greenlee (72:58)

Lots and lots of layers that take a lot of time to really fully unpack and unravel.

Anya Cain (73:04)

Yeah. So this could be it. Or, you know, some people have speculated more will come, but I guess we'll just kind of keep an eye on it. But it was an interesting sentencing hearing and hopefully us covering it has given everyone a better understanding of like what's normal and what's not at sentencing hearings. I really feel like normally they're not this explosive in terms of like the drama that the Adelsons brought to this and their friends brought to this. But you know, it's just an interesting way that they chose to do it, but that's it. Thanks everyone for listening.

Kevin Greenlee (73:34)

Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us@murdersheetmail.com if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

Anya Cain (73:54)

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Kevin Greenlee (74:18)

Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the web@kevintg.com if you're looking to talk with.

Anya Cain (74:29)

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