Podcast Summary: Murder Sheet – The Murder of Joseph Gatto: An Interview with His Son Mike Gatto
Date: November 30, 2025
Guest: Mike Gatto
Hosts: Áine Cain & Kevin Greenlee
Overview
This episode of Murder Sheet centers on the 2013 unsolved murder of Joseph Gatto, a well-known Los Angeles educator, artist, and father of Mike Gatto, a former California State Assemblyman. Mike recently published a book, Noir by Necessity, recounting his experience of loss, the ongoing investigation, and the challenges families face in the aftermath of violent crime. The hosts and Mike discuss Joseph's life, the investigation's frustrations, media and police conduct, the impact on Mike’s own life and career, theories around the murder, and reflections from the Gatto family’s unique vantage point.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Joseph Gatto: Life, Legacy, and Loss
- Joseph’s Background (07:36–08:58):
- Renaissance man: Army veteran, artist, mechanic, gardener, schoolteacher for 47 years without a single missed day.
- Founder of the Los Angeles County High School for the Arts, renowned for producing talented alumni.
- Lively, active, devoted to family and community.
"He was somebody who could take apart an engine and put it back together... but he was also somebody who was very into planting fruit trees and gardening." – Mike Gatto (07:50)
- The Night of the Murder (09:14–10:58):
- Discovered by his daughter; single fatal gunshot on Nov 12, 2013 (found Nov 13).
- No major health issues, making the murder especially shocking to the family.
"She went inside and she found him dead. And my first reaction was like, come on... he's not dead." – Mike Gatto (09:37)
- Coping with Tragedy (11:04–12:47):
- Surreal and disorienting aftermath; for a month, Mike kept a newspaper on his nightstand to remind himself it wasn't a dream.
"I would wake up in the middle of the night and I would think it was a dream. I kept a copy of the LA Times... because I had to remind myself that it was not a bad dream." – Mike Gatto (11:10)
The Investigation: Frustrations and Insights
- Police Conduct and Bedside Manner (13:21–17:06):
- Experiences with LAPD ranged from excellent to troubling; some investigators lacked empathy or professionalism.
- Example: Detective dwelled on an old grudge related to a distant cousin instead of focusing on the case.
"He was angry at me, like, that I was related to this guy, which I can't really control, of course." – Mike Gatto (16:20)
- **Advice for Law Enforcement (18:43–19:43):**
- Families need empathy and understanding; for them, this is the most important moment of their lives.
"The families involved, they just want a little bit of respect, a little bit of sympathy, some empathy..." – Mike Gatto (19:19)
- Media’s Role (20:01–21:39):
- Media attention was mostly helpful in keeping Joseph’s case alive, though there were rare instances of insensitivity and intrusion.
"We all sort of fantasize that whatever story happens will be the one that breaks the case." – Mike Gatto (21:08)
Theories, Evidence, and Barriers
- Investigation Theories (21:50–25:40):
- Early theories included:
- Targeted for rare art (disproven)
- Political motivation (disproven)
- "Random car burglar" theory: A local burglar, fleeing, allegedly ducked into Joseph's house coincidentally and committed the murder. Mike finds this theory implausible due to lack of forced entry, the implausible sequence of events required, and the absence of further offenses by the suspected perpetrator.
- Early theories included:
"For this theory to work, this young man would have had to sit in my dad's garage for about an hour and not go downstairs... Not steal anything... but would have had to sit there... and then at some point just casually decide to walk upstairs and shoot my dad." – Mike Gatto (21:50–25:01)
- Physical Evidence – DNA & Prints (26:24–28:09, 44:01–45:59):
- DNA and fingerprints are inconclusive; DNA is highly degraded and may not belong to the perpetrator.
- Critique of the "CSI Effect": Overreliance on technological forensic evidence can stall investigations ("waiting for a hit") and deter traditional detective work.
"The murder clearance rate... has gone down in the era of DNA. And that is because police tend to just say, well, we're going to wait for there to be a hit." – Mike Gatto (26:41)
- Big vs. Small Police Departments (28:09–29:46):
- Larger departments (like the LAPD) can be more bureaucratic and less open to outside help or new techniques than smaller ones.
- Suggests this insularity may hinder progress on cold cases.
"The LAPD was always like, no, we don't work with outsiders. And it's just like... smaller departments welcome the help and the bigger departments tend to be more territorial." – Mike Gatto (29:17)
The Toll of Unsolved Murders on Families
- False Hopes and Harm from Outsiders (36:03–39:25):
- Countless “tips” and conspiracy theorists disrupted the family’s healing. Some attention-seekers or unrelated complainants misused Mike’s influence.
- Example: A former student and soap opera actress gave Mike false hope for weeks, only to present an outlandish theory involving global conspiracies.
"...we go to lunch, and at lunch she gets into this theory that, let's just say it involved Hillary Clinton and, you know, some billionaires and all this stuff. And it was just, it was so out there." – Mike Gatto (38:09)
Mike Gatto: Political and Personal Reflection
- Impact on Career and Policy (32:41–35:00):
- Mike faced pressures to become a "gun control celebrity" but avoided politicizing his father’s death.
- Cautions against passing laws based solely on anecdotes; advocates nuanced analysis of criminal justice and public policy.
"I never wanted to be seen to be politicizing my dad's death... anecdotes make bad law." – Mike Gatto (33:12)
- On US gun violence: Most murders involve handguns, not "assault weapons." Problems are complex—mental health, opportunity, policy.
"A ban on assault weapons would not bring back my dad... most murders in the United States are caused by handguns... It's not a simple issue." – Mike Gatto (35:00)
Current Theories & Hopes for Resolution
- Most Likely Scenarios (39:28–43:50):
- Mike suspects his father’s killer was someone Joseph knew—and possibly let into the house.
- Discusses various scenarios: stranger vs. acquaintance, forced entry vs. no forced entry. Details don’t fit neatly, making theory formation challenging.
"...I favor the theory that... my dad was killed by somebody that he knew and probably somebody that he let into the house himself." – Mike Gatto (40:35)
- Oddities remain: no multiple gunshots, partial room ransacking, killer’s behavior post-homicide, and no subsequent criminal activity detected.
- Fingerprints and DNA remain inconclusive and may not aid in solving the case.
- What Would Help Solve the Case? (46:05–47:21):
- Advances in forensic technology; witnesses coming forward with overlooked memories.
- Acknowledges the role that skill and luck both play in breaking cold cases.
"I'm hoping it will be a mixture of skill and a mixture of luck." – Mike Gatto (47:17)
The Importance of Remembering and Advocacy
- Victims’ Voices & Awareness (47:33–48:18):
- Gratitude for podcasts and listeners keeping cold cases in public view.
- Emphasizes the importance of honoring the humanity of victims like Joseph Gatto.
"You are keeping the stories alive. These are all human beings. They meant a lot to a lot of people... we need to prioritize these unsolved murders." – Mike Gatto (47:37)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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On Crime Scene Investigators vs. Detectives:
"The people who did the crime scene were some of the hardest working people I know, and I really, really respect them... however, there were some folks assigned to my dad's case during the bulk of the years that were a bit of a challenge to deal with..." – Mike Gatto (13:53)
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On Media and Families:
"The media, by and large, was really, I think, beneficial for my dad's case...just bringing attention to the fact that there are so many unsolved murders and making sure that those stories stay alive has such a value..." – Mike Gatto (20:41)
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On the Emotional Toll of Conspiracy Theorists:
"...those people...almost force you to go through the hope and pain again and again and again." – Mike Gatto (38:58)
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On Sharing his Experience:
"I felt like the story had to be told and it doesn't matter what the blowback is to me." – Mike Gatto (32:18)
Key Timestamps
- 07:00 – Mike Gatto introduces himself and his background
- 07:36 – Remembering Joseph Gatto: teacher, artist, community figure
- 09:14 – The night the Gatto family learned of Joseph’s murder
- 11:04 – Processing grief and the reality of violent loss
- 13:19 – Police conduct; lapses in empathy and professionalism
- 18:43 – What law enforcement can do better for families
- 20:41 – Mike’s perspective on the media’s impact
- 21:50 – Breakdown of leading murder theories and investigative missteps
- 26:24 – The limitations of relying on DNA and “CSI effect”
- 28:09 – Differences between big and small PDs in cold case work
- 32:41 – How the murder impacted Mike’s politics and approach to advocacy
- 36:03 – The harm caused by false tips and conspiracy theorists
- 39:28 – Mike’s current theory on who killed his father
- 44:01 – Challenges with existing forensic evidence
- 46:05 – What it might take to solve Joseph Gatto’s case
- 47:33 – The importance of awareness and remembrance
Conclusion
This episode offers a deeply personal perspective on violent crime, the ripple effects on surviving families, and the institutional forces that can both help and hinder the search for justice. Mike Gatto’s candor about his experiences—with police, media, the justice system, and his own career—provides invaluable insight for listeners, particularly those who may be navigating their own losses or interested in the realities behind unsolved crime statistics.
Recommendation:
Mike Gatto’s book, Noir by Necessity, is recommended for a more in-depth exploration of the case and the family’s personal journey.