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- [00:00]
Anya Cain
It's getting hot out there and if you're like me, you're looking to switch things up with your wardrobe. And if you're really, really like me, you don't want to spend a lot of money doing so. Especially with pieces that go out of style fast.
- [00:12]
Kevin Greenlee
Well, that's where our wonderful sponsor Quince comes in. Quince specializes in high end, lightweight, timeless pieces that you will treasure for years to come, all at low prices.
- [00:24]
Anya Cain
They've got some amazing stuff right now. Quince has a hundred percent European linen shorts and dresses from $30 swimwear that will make you feel fancy at the beach or pool, Italian leather platform sandals and more. We're about to go and splurge on some of these and we'll keep you all updated on what we get. I'm really tempted to wear one of their swimsuits to the pool, but I also really love the look of some of their linen dresses to wear out and about this summer. I don't know, maybe I'll have to get all of it.
- [00:50]
Kevin Greenlee
Quint keeps its prices low by cutting out the middlemen. So you get luxury Items that cost 50 to 80% less than those of their competitors. It's a steal.
- [01:00]
Anya Cain
Give your summer closet an upgrade with quince. Go to quince.commsheet for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E.commsheet to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.commsheet you ever feel like your day.
- [01:20]
Kevin Greenlee
Is going so bad that it's almost like being in the middle of a mystery you just can't solve?
- [01:26]
Anya Cain
Oh yeah, it's so frustrating, right? You just feel something is completely off.
- [01:30]
Kevin Greenlee
If that sounds like you, your hormones may be the ultimate culprit. And our sponsor, Happy Mammoth may be able to help you solve the case.
- [01:39]
Anya Cain
Happy Mammoth is a natural wellness brand that can help you maintain optimal hormone levels. They also have products to help you boost your gut health.
- [01:47]
Kevin Greenlee
The usual suspects are everywhere when it comes to hormone disruptors. I'm talking about food, air and even skincare products. They can all silently impact our quality of life. Happy Mammoth provides a good solution. By taking their quick two minute quiz, you can kickstart your journey. You'll get tailor made solutions and recommendations based on your specific needs.
- [02:12]
Anya Cain
I love their hormone harmony supplements. These are great for women at all stages of life. I feel they've improved my gut health and reduced the random cravings I get sometimes.
- [02:21]
Megan
So.
- [02:22]
Anya Cain
So it's kept my hunger for cereal a bit at bay I suppose. Don't worry though, I still do the heist just for fun.
- [02:28]
Kevin Greenlee
For women who are in menopause or perimenopause, hormone harmony supplements can help relieve those symptoms, reduce mood swings and hot flashes, and help with sleep. They also give you more energy. For women in that stage of life, it is really a wonderful solution.
- [02:44]
Anya Cain
For a limited time you can get 15% off on your entire first order at happy mammoth.com just use the code msheet at checkout that's happy mammoth.com and use the code msheet for 15% off today. Audible ignites your next action packed adventure with thrills of every kind. On your command, dive into the Silent Patient by Alex Michaelitis, A psychological thriller that will keep you guessing until the very end. Masterfully narrated by Jack Hawkins and Louise Freely from electrifying suspense and daring quests to spine tingling horror and romance and far off realms, unleash your adventurous eyes with gripping titles. Discover exclusive Audible originals, hotly anticipated new releases and must listen bestsellers that hook you from the first minute because Audible knows there's no greater thrill than the one that speaks to you. Discover what lies beyond the edge of your seat. Start your free 30 day trial at audible.com wonderypod that's audible.com wonderypod Content warning.
- [03:46]
Kevin Greenlee
This episode contains discussion of murder as well as domestic violence, substance abuse and references to childhood sexual abuse.
- [03:57]
Anya Cain
Domestic abuse is a scourge and it can happen to anyone. Nobody is safe. Regardless of your background, race, sex, gender, socioeconomic status, education and personality, you can find yourself up against an abuser. Today we will talk about one woman who went through this. She went by the name Hope. She lived in Indiana. She had a daughter who she loved. She was vibrant, she was kind. She had her struggles. But she also had a spark, a certain strength, a winning personality. Those close to her could never have imagined she could be the victim of domestic abuse. They now say an abuser tore her down, dragged her to hell and back, again and again, even as those who loved her attempted to intervene and get her away from that situation. They say he ruined her life and physically abused her, hitting her, strangling her. Now the state of Indiana is saying that he killed her too.
- [05:03]
Kevin Greenlee
Earlier this year we went to Advocacy Con here in Indianapolis. It was just a low key visit after we talked to a murder victim's family who suggested we come. We wanted to hear the stories of the surviving loved ones of the missing and murdered. While we were there, we ran into Megan we were very happy to see her. We had previously corresponded with her about her mother, Leslie Hope Houston's case. You see, Megan believed her mother was murdered. Megan has been advocating for justice in that case, but sometimes justice can take time.
- [05:41]
Anya Cain
Anyways, we invited Megan on the show to talk about her mother Hope's case. After reviewing the numerous documents she made available to us, one of the first things she said to us was, I promise I'm not crazy. For the record, we know that she's not having seen the work she's done, we've been so impressed in what she's put together. We will get more into the details of what happened to Hope in our talk with Megan. Hope was admitted to St. Vincent's Hospital in Indiana's Madison county on October 11, 2024. She was unresponsive. Later on, doctors would opine that she was already brain dead. At that time, her body bore the marks of abuse, bruises and various stages of healing on her legs, arms, neck, breast and feet, as well as signs of multiple injuries to her brain.
- [06:29]
Kevin Greenlee
Hope's husband, John Dougherty Jr. Was not immediately charged with anything.
- [06:36]
Anya Cain
And Megan did not even learn that her mother was hospitalized until the following day. On October 14, doctors officially declared Hope brain dead, although again they noted that they believed that she had been so from the start. On October 17, Megan said goodbye to her mother. Medical staff took her off life support. Hope's kidneys and liver were donated. I'm going to read a portion of her death note which was written by a physician. This 46 year old lady presented with cardiac arrest. She had return of spontaneous circulation after CPR and epinephrine but was intubated in the field. Massive intracranial bleed was found from acute traumatic brain injury. The patient was stabilized but likely brain dead from the beginning. She had alcohol intoxication. We waited enough time for the alcohol levels to fall. She had no physical findings that would suggest cortical or brain stem function.
- [07:33]
Kevin Greenlee
A neurosurgical team in Indianapolis also reviewed Hope's case. They found her injuries to be consistent with domestic abuse. Daughtery's arrest occurred on May 27, 2025. Between those two dates, Megan conducted her own investigation and stayed in touch with officials to ensure that accountability would happen. Now Daughtery is facing the charge of murder and of being a habitual offender. Let's read the introduction of the huge sprawling report Megan compiled about her mother's case.
- [08:10]
Anya Cain
I, Megan, have compiled this document in honor of my mother, Lynn Leslie Houston, whose tragic and untimely death raises significant questions about the circumstances surrounding her final days. I firmly believe that my mother's cause of death was neither natural nor accidental. After countless hours of meticulously researching her medical records and reviewing clinical findings, I have organized my observations and conclusions in this document. As a survivor of domestic violence myself, and as the same person who helped my mom leave her abusive relationship just months before her untimely death, I feel it is important to share this. Victims of prior strangulation are 800% more likely to later become homicide victims of the same partner. It is no coincidence that on September 25, 2024, my mother left me a voicemail. Yeah, call me back asap, because I need to get out of here. I gotta get out because I have a head injury. It's just really bad. I can't even take a shower. And he told me today he's been laying hands and he told me he's going to keep doing it and it's not good. So I'm ready to walk out. I'm done with it. I'll fill out the paperwork. I'm out, so call me back. I love you. And just 16 days later, she was found, apnea and pulseless, lying on the ground, the same position she would always be in when being strangled. Although I am Leslie's daughter, it does not make me incapable of viewing this situation objectively. My conclusions aren't based on emotion or an inability to cope with my mother's death. I have devoted countless hours to carefully reviewing every detail of my mom's case. Despite my personal feelings about her husband, I would have loved nothing more than to stand beside him in unity during this time of grief, rather than trying to ensure she receives justice for her death.
- [10:06]
Kevin Greenlee
Megan is a young woman who used to listen to true crime podcasts. But she also went through her own situation where she dealt with an abusive relationship. Then she tried to help her mother escape her marriage. After Hope's death, Megan began investigating. She did research on the medical findings at the autopsy. She compiled documents outlining the case for foul play. She has stayed in touch with officials and experts, coroners, physicians, detectives and prosecutors. She has patiently awaited progress. Now she can speak with us about this case.
- [10:45]
Anya Cain
We have held off reporting about Hope for a while now. Her alleged killer was still out of jail. We did not want to endanger Megan or any law enforcement officers or even the suspected murderer himself. But now that there has been some progress in the case, that changes. There are still a few aspects of this ongoing case that we are not going to get into yet, since it is still Pre trial.
- [11:08]
Kevin Greenlee
In today's episode, Megan is going to tell us the story of her mother. It is painful and raw and messy. This is what domestic violence and abuse looks like. It looks like a cycle of victims breaking away and then going right back. It looks like baffled loved ones trying to help and getting nowhere. It looks like a situation that is hard to understand from the outside. This is all normal.
- [11:36]
Anya Cain
It does not mean that Hope was bad or foolish or that her family failed her. This is what toxic relationships and domestic abuse do to a person. It rewires your brain, essentially. Victims tend to chase the high of the early love bombing phase of the relationship, even when faced with physical violence and threats. So they go back again and again and again. Sadly, Hope went back one too many times.
- [12:03]
Kevin Greenlee
We think this story is important for three reasons.
- [12:07]
Anya Cain
One, it highlights the realities of domestic abuse, how horrific it is, and how entangled victims can become. How hard it is to really break the cycle.
- [12:16]
Kevin Greenlee
Two, we think Megan truly did everything she could to get justice. She was consistent and determined and constantly following up without getting frustrated or lashing out at law enforcement or prosecutors. That is a balancing act, and we think she did it magnificently.
- [12:35]
Anya Cain
And third, Hope's life mattered. This was a lovely and kind woman who lost her life so needlessly. We hope that by telling her story, by telling Megan's story, we could help other families who might be in a similar situation. My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.
- [12:51]
Kevin Greenlee
And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.
- [12:53]
Anya Cain
And this is the Murder Sheet.
- [12:55]
Kevin Greenlee
We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're the Murder Sheet.
- [13:03]
Anya Cain
And this is the murder of Leslie Hope, Houston, daughter of Hope.
- [13:54]
Kevin Greenlee
Megan wanted to stress that she is not a physician, nor is she an investigator. She is a person who is just motivated to do a lot of research, but to try to find the truth about her mother's death. She wanted to say that she is not saying anything definitively. She is just relating what she observed and what she found through research.
- [14:14]
Anya Cain
Megan, first of all, thank you so much for joining us today. It was really great to meet you at Advocacy Con, and we really appreciate you kind of trusting us with your mom's story.
- [14:22]
Megan
Yes, it was good to meet you, too. I'm glad that I recognized Kevin.
- [14:27]
Anya Cain
He's very distinctive, very sincere, I guess, to start out with, can you tell us just a bit about your mom, who she was as a person? What was she like? What was it like growing up with her?
- [14:38]
Megan
My mom was the sweetest person that you could have met ever. And she was so funny. She. So I'm kind of opposite like her, which, I mean, I get. Like, I'm very nice and kind and, you know, because of her, but she's like the life of a party. And, like, you go somewhere, she's there. Like, she's the one that everyone is gathered around me. I'm like, okay, I want to go home. And just, you know. But, yeah, I mean, she was just. She was the sweetest person ever. She didn't have the best life growing up. And then she had me. And she'd always say, like, I had but one child, and, you know, that was me. And she made sure to give me the life that she never had. She was, you know, really great. And I didn't really see everything that she did for me until I got older. She was with my stepdad kind of. Long story short, he raised me since I was 2. They were together for 20 years until she got with her person that she actually did marry. But, you know, she stayed with him. And, you know, I had a really good childhood growing up and, you know, all that stuff. So.
- [15:50]
Anya Cain
She sounds like a great mom.
- [15:52]
Megan
Yep.
- [15:54]
Anya Cain
Can you tell me about some of the struggles she had over the years?
- [15:59]
Megan
So growing up, she was taken advantage of in a way that no child should ever be, and that caused a lot of pain in her heart. But, you know, she grew up and she had me, and she still had that pain in her heart. And on top of this, like, she told people. So before she met my stepdad, she was a dancer. And in order for her to, like, feel okay to do that, she would drink and, you know, but at the end of the day, she was like, I need money for diapers. And, you know, this, that, and the other. And, you know, she was just doing it to give me a better life. But then she meets my stepdad. She's not dancing anymore. But then the bear is still there, you know, because you get so used to it. So she struggled with that. And it was never really, like, off. Like, I never really, like, noticed it as, like, awful because our bills were still always paid, you know, xyz and my stepdad, too. So, like, his family had a lot of money and stuff. So, you know, at this time, he just got out of college, so he'd been, like, partier, you know, like frat boy kind of mentality. So then kind of whenever your parents are just handing you everything anyways, you know, and then you're just still drinking and It's a party and you have these houses and these things, you know, it's, it's more of a. It's just like a party, you know, and then, but then it doesn't stop because you get so used to the alcohol and this, that and the other. So, you know, she did deal with that, but it was never, like I said, it was never like a something she wasn't mean. She might drink in the morning because if not you can see that she's going to shake, you know, and it's just like one beer until 2:00 in the afternoon, you know, just so that she doesn't shake. So that was that.
- [17:55]
Anya Cain
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Kevin Greenlee
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Anya Cain
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Kevin Greenlee
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- [18:39]
Anya Cain
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Kevin Greenlee
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- [19:08]
Anya Cain
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- [19:47]
Kevin Greenlee
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Anya Cain
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- [20:33]
Kevin Greenlee
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- [20:49]
Anya Cain
For a limited time only new Cash App users can use our exclusive code to earn some additional cash. For real. There's no catch. Just download Cash App and sign up. Use our exclusive referral code msheet in your profile. Send $5 to a friend within 14 days and you'll get $10 dropped right into your account. Terms apply. That's money. That's Cash App. If you're like us, you sometimes struggle to lose weight or maintain a healthy weight.
- [21:15]
Kevin Greenlee
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- [21:30]
Anya Cain
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- [21:46]
Kevin Greenlee
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- [21:48]
Anya Cain
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Kevin Greenlee
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- [22:12]
Anya Cain
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- [22:30]
Kevin Greenlee
Results vary. These statements have not been evaluated by the fda. It is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease and is not a substitute for care from a healthcare provider.
- [22:42]
Megan
Yeah, that.
- [22:42]
Anya Cain
That's. I mean, something that people may not realize is alcoholism can look very different, right? We have the stereotypical view of it, but it can look like just trying to stave off, you know, the kind of withdrawal symptoms.
- [22:55]
Megan
And it can.
- [22:57]
Anya Cain
It can, you know, you can still be pleasant and nice and not be yelling at people and not be fighting, but it can, you know, can still be. Addiction can look really differently depending on the person in their life.
- [23:07]
Megan
Right.
- [23:08]
Anya Cain
I wanted to ask you, can you take us up to the kind of date of her death and the circumstances around that and sort of what you've learned about that?
- [23:22]
Megan
I just moved out of the house, you know, I was like, 18, 19 at this point. And for her, that was very hard on her because I'm her everything. And it was one of those things where, like, she'd been with my. I'll just say, stepdad for so long that she's kind of bored, you know, just kind of like after a while, you just get annoyed with someone, you know? So she's like, oh, my gosh, like, I've lost my best friend, and now I'm stuck with is this guy, you know? So that was hard on her. So then someone moved in next door. There was a couple living there because we lived in an apartment complex. And like I said, she's social, so she would be able to tell you better than me. But she had, like, every single. There's someone over here, over here, over here. They all would party together, hang out. Like, she knew everybody in the neighborhood. Me, I'll stay inside, you know, but she, you know, she's very social. So one of the people that live next to us, their son had just gotten out of prison and moved in next door with them. Well, she told me pretty much it started off with, like, he would come over and, like, can I borrow your phone? Can I do this? You know, and every time, yes, yes, you know, of course, because she was the nicest person, and she'd, you know, she'd always go above and beyond for people. So, yes, of Course, you know, she said. Then it started to get to like, oh, like, can you give me a ride? Yes. Yes. Can I borrow your car? Yes. You know, so it just kept getting to be more and more. But every time she said yes, and she's like, oh, you. This might be fun, you know, something different because I've been with someone for 20 years. They get together and he's on probation. He is. Which she didn't know because my mom, she does not do drugs. She doesn't. I mean, nothing. Okay? She, like, she's 100% against it. She didn't know this at the time, but he was actively high on meth. And he had the audacity to tell her that if you don't go to rehab for drinking, we can't be together. You know, So I guess, like, at some point, you know, clearly they had really. I think he just. He saw a good opportunity with her, you know, so. So he wanted to see, like, okay, what all can I make her do? They say narcissists and abusers, like, that will go and see what their limits are with people. And I110 believe that is what he was doing with her. And she went and did it. She went and. Well, she got detoxed because she couldn't just stop drinking. Like, she. She. She would have died. So she did that and then she's like, oh, my gosh. And, you know, this is also fun and, you know, all this stuff. She leaves my stepdad and she goes to the bank where only her and I knew that she had this bank account. And so, like, I was on it. She was on it, and it was supposed to be used for if she were to pass away so that I would have money and so that I could bury her. And I had, like, I want to say, $6,000 in it. Well, she goes to that bank, she takes all the money out of it, and she goes and gets both of them brand new cars. So you gotta think. She had to put money down, you know, for the cars. And then she went and bought him a cell phone and went and got them a house together as well. So that happened very quick, you know, like, immediately. And, you know, to her, she just thought, like, oh, I'm in love and this is fun. And, you know, she wasn't thinking about everything.
- [26:57]
Anya Cain
Were you concerned by how fast things were moving?
- [27:01]
Megan
I was more so just in. In shock, you know, I'm just like, oh, my God, like, what is going on? And then I had, like, my. So, like, my stepdad is like, A very bad. A lot worse than my mom whenever it comes to alcohol. So, like, with him, like, you can tell, you know, like, with. It's. It's just like he can't. He can't hold a job because he' be, you know, drinking. You know, he's a little bit different. So then now I have a stepdad who's on me about, like, you need to get us back together. And he's drinking 10 times more now, making me feel like it's my fault, you know, so all this stuff. So I'm just kind of, like, in shock. Like, I don't know what's going on. It's very weird. For me, it was odd, you know, I just kind of, like, try to distance myself from it. But I eventually met him, and not too long afterwards, it was Covid. And I had moved in with them for, like, a month because, of course, I was going through a manic phase. Okay. I had this apartment. I actually decided to move in with someone whenever I first met them. Well, that didn't work out. And I had, like, I had an apartment, but I gave up my lease. So my lease is up now. I can't go back, you know, So I. And since it's like, literally as soon as Covid hit this happened, nobody would accept my application, although I had money and I had a job, because they were like, well, you're not working right now. No one is working. You know, no one is working. So I stayed with her, and I got to know him more during that time. Looking back, I. A lot of the stuff in their relationship, I blacked out. I blacked it out because Whenever I was 17, I was in a. An abusive relationship, and that was very hard to get out of. Like, I. Like, he almost killed me. You know, he told me that he. He would have in one. In one occasion. So then a year later of me, you know, getting out of it, whenever I have my mom calling me, which was before I moved in, like, crying, can I please come stay with you? Like, things are bad, etc. Etc. I black. I can't, like, you know, like, process what's going on, because this person who's now crying to me, like, I just, you know, heard her crying because of me and, you know, and me going through it. She would cry, you know, like, to know about what happened. You know what I mean?
- [29:36]
Anya Cain
Simultaneously dealing with domestic violence in these. In these relationships that both of you are having.
- [29:44]
Megan
So, yeah, so kind of. So, like, I got out of mine, and like, a year later is whenever she got into hers, you know, so. So, yeah, it was. It was very hard on me for that. And. And it's something like I don't notice that I do. You know, it's just like, for instance, I had, like. I had to go back through all my old messages and stuff just to see, like, there were times even whenever I was living with her that I was messaging someone and I'm like, yeah. Like I said, she's crying right now. She said that he was really mean and he hit her, that it was just really bad and that she needs to leave. And, like, I don't remember that, though. You know, I guarantee it happened, you know, but it's not something that I.
- [30:28]
Anya Cain
You know, you're traumatized from your previous experience with that. And so when this is happening and it's being kind of like it's suddenly in your face again, you're having that kind of trauma response.
- [30:40]
Megan
Yeah, yeah. And. And that's.
- [30:42]
Anya Cain
Did you witness any of the physical violence?
- [30:46]
Megan
No. So, no. I mean, I think I heard him yelling and stuff. There was another occasion later on where, like, he did try to hit me, but no. So, like, I never physically saw him do it to her, I think, because, like, he knew better with me, you know? But, I mean, it was. It had been going on, and that's. You know, I. Eventually even I had to stop talking to her because whenever she got with him, she just. So she was sober for, like, six months. And then he pretended to have multiple personalities, which was what ignited her to start drinking again, which obviously, yes, it's her fault. She shouldn't have done it, but is kind of cause and effect. Not long after that, he pretended to be dying. Once he. He came up and he said, like, okay, I don't have multiple personalities. He pretended to be dying. He said he was going to go deaf first and then blind and die. That went on for a couple months. Yes. Said that he had, like, a brain tumor and everything and had my mom so distraught that her dad asked her because she was crying every single day for months. Because she's, like, now she's, like, heartbroken, you know, like, oh, my gosh, I found someone. And now, of course, he's dying. And, oh, my gosh. So he might. So my grandfather had asked my mom, like, are you on drugs? Why are you crying? Like, what are you doing? You know, because she was just hysterical. She even said that there was a time that she went to go smoke a cigarette with him, and she said. She said, I'll never forget. I wasn't crying for the first time, like, ever. And I went to go have a cigarette with him, and he sees I'm not crying, and he turned to me and he goes, you know, I'm not going to be here for much longer. And she just started bawling her eyes out, you know, so it was just. It just. And then it was seizures. He said that he was having seizures. And going back through the text messages, it is so clear that he had never had a seizure in his life. But it's like, I'm pretty sure he gets off on just, like, whatever kind of manipulation hurts. I don't know exactly what to call it. But. So, for instance, in her text, she says every night, like, he goes into having these seizures, and I have to, like, hold his head to make sure he doesn't, like, puke, choke on his own vomit. And she said, and I have to help, like, hold him down at times because if not, she said, he will punch himself repetitively, like, during the seizures. And I don't know how, like, I didn't, like, say something else about it then, but. Huh. So all this stuff is going on and I'm getting told, like, constantly, like, I just saw your mom and she has black eyes by my cousin, and, you know, all this stuff. And she just starts to, like, act different to me. And I didn't realize what it was because, like I said. So I started blacking this stuff out. So, you know, I, like. I'd even, like, kind of gone off on her one time. I said, why is it that he just talks to me, however, you know, and you just sit there and let him. Because my stepdad growing up, I mean, he couldn't say nothing about me, you know, so, like, even if it was just like, the two of them. And he went, she's kind of being a. You know, she'd go, that's my daughter. You don't talk about her in any, you know, any kind of way. She's, you know, would always, like, stick up for me. But with him, you know, like, he just. I mean, the craziness, you just can't escape it, you know? So it's like, I'm like, why are you letting him do this and talk to me this way? And so, like, that really upset me. I didn't realize it was because she couldn't actually, like, say what she wanted. She couldn't, you know, because she was afraid to. So I had stopped talking to her also, because I would just go over. We would just get into arguments because then she started Drinking more with him. Like, I just needed time to heal, you know, from. From everything that had happened in that time of, okay, now you're not with someone that you were with for 20, you know, and just all of these things, I just needed, like, a break, you know, and. And then whenever she did talk, like, try to talk to me, it would just, like, hurt me so bad because she'd be like, is it because of this whenever you were a kid? And, I'm so sorry. And then, like, crying and, like, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I don't even remember that, you know? And so, like, it was just, like, hard for me to, like, I can't, like, deal with that.
- [35:37]
Anya Cain
It's like, everything except the real problem, which is this really dysfunctional, abusive relationship.
- [35:42]
Megan
Yeah. And even in the messages, I told her, I was like, I don't want to be around someone who beats you, you know? You know, all of these things. And so she broke up with, like.
- [35:52]
Anya Cain
They'D break up and get back together. It was like that kind of classic cycle, or was like, would she try to leave him? Like, what was happening with that in the beginning?
- [36:01]
Megan
There was a time where it was, like, the first. It was actually the first time that she had drank, and I don't know what had happened. She never told me. She just, like, kind of stuck up for him a lot and, you know, like, protected him, but she had gotten that car for him. And then I get a call, and it's like, she's bawling her eyes out. She's, you know, now relapsed, and she's like, please come get the car. Like, you just take over the payments and take him to his mom's. Like, I can't do this. And then, you know, two days later, like, I get a knock on the door, like, give me the car back, and we're back together. And, you know, and that's also one of the things I'm like, I can't just, you know, do. I can't just, you know, pick you up every single time that you call just for you to go back, you know, or do all of these things. So I didn't. I hadn't talked to her in about. We were very off and on for, like, a year or two, I would say. And, you know, so during that time, it was just kind of like, I talked to her every now and again. But then I got a text. I want to say December of 2023. And it was like, your mom has cirrhosis, and I'm like, what. You know, like, what's. What's going. Okay, whatever. Well, then it's January, and maybe I want to say I got a text in January 2024, saying that she had cirrhosis from her husband. And I'm like, okay, well, a couple days later, I called him because my uncle, my mom's brother, was trying to get a hold of her, and, you know, she wasn't answering. And I was, like, trying to call her to say, like, just talk to him. Well, he answered the phone, her husband, and he's, like, going on this rampage. And he's like, yeah, because we just got out of the. She just got out of the icu. I said, huh? The icu? Nobody even told me she was in the. Well, that's the whole reason my uncle was trying to talk to her. Nobody told me that she was in the icu. He goes on this rampage, and I'm. I wrote down everything that he was telling me in, like, notes on my phone. And I thought it was really weird because one of the things he said was, like. And I just feel so bad because, you know, the drinking, it's. You know, and he said. And it's. I think it's because I used to hit her. I don't anymore. But, like, that's why she's drinking or something. I don't. Like, everything he told me was so crazy. I'm like, why was she. You know, And I mean, like, they had taken her all the way to Indy, you know, so, like, clearly it was something. And so he told me that, like, the doctors told him, like, she doesn't have long to live and that. I mean. And he told the entire family this.
- [38:58]
Anya Cain
Yeah.
- [38:58]
Megan
You know, like, pretty much saying, like, she went ama so against medical advice and left the hospital, you know, even though she shouldn't have. And that every day that she drinks, it's just, like, worse and. And. And all this stuff. And I had asked my mom, like, you're like, you're dying, you know, and she's like, no, I'm not. And I'm like, why are you. Like, I even. I'm like, why is she saying that? That it's not. She's like, she's just going crazy. She's just losing it. She's in denial. Like, even to the point, like, I had gone over to their house and, like, to see her and stuff, because now I'm, like, going through, like, I'm grieving, my mom's, like, impending death or so I think. And he's like. And I'M like, you know, is this really going on? And he's like, yeah, you can look at the hospital records. They're right up there, you know, so, like, you would think, okay, like, dang, she's really dying, you know? No. So it took a little bit of time, which, mind you, like, he had played this up so much that he had been in my neighborhood because he was doing, like, doordash or something. And I was literally crying, like, at the time, because I'm, like, so upset my mom's dying. I see him and, like, he comes up and it's like a very somber, like, oh, let me get a hug. And, like, you know, all of these things. And, you know, so it's like, even though I, you know, I don't like him, like, I was still, like, being kind to him and, you know, like, I was able to put everything to the side. And I'd even told him, like, I felt like him and I were, like, finally, like, getting somewhere in our relationship at this time. And. But I mean, like, he just played it up, like, you know, I have a dying wife at home, and. And. And is there any way maybe I can have $50 or something? Yeah. And my mom calls me, and she's like, listen, like, he's been beating me. You know, She's. She's like, that's. That's really what it is. And I'm like, what the. You know, And I'm, like, so caught off guard by this, you know, because, like, huh. And. And she tells me. She says, like, would she been drinking? But I can tell she's, like, whispering, but she's whispering loudly because she's been drinking. He said, please get some medical power of attorney papers and sign them for me, please. And, like. Or, you know, just come over here, I'll sign them, et cetera, et cetera. Because he was telling her that he was going to, like, put her in an institution for lying about being hit, which is kind of what happened to her whenever she was younger and other abuse occurred to her. So it was like, she definitely told him that this happened to me, and he used it against her in the worst way. But eventually. So this is January, February. I'm with my mom every day now. And because, like, I'm afraid for her, you know, and if I'm not with her, I'm on the phone with her. And I recorded a lot of our calls because I was genuinely afraid, like, he was going to hurt her while they were on the phone because she may not, you know, call the cops. Or say. Say anything. Let me get it on. On record. Let's go, like. And I did do some welfare checks on her. So the day that she had asked me to sign those papers or bring them over, I was printing them out. And as I'm about to head over there, I see a missed call from her. Well, I call back. It's him. And his voice completely changed. And he's like, so I heard you're going to be coming over with some papers, huh? Like, I don't even know how to describe it other than it was demonic. Like, it was evil. Like, I. I don't even. I can't even explain how he said this, but it scared me so bad. Like, I immediately started to shake. And I called 911 and I said, please go check on her, because I'm, like, so scared for her. But each time she wouldn't tell them the truth. And she said. She said, really, Megan? She said, I'm scared because a. There was times where, I mean, he was literally hitting himself in the face, which is recorded. You can hear, like, she's clearly, like, over here. He's all the way over there. And you hear a distant slap, Slapping noise in the background. And he goes, oh, you hit me. And she's like, no, what are you. You know, like. So he's even saying like, oh, I'll just make you go to jail instead. And, you know, like, scaring her and this and that. And it's like, you know, but. But she said, if they don't, you know, if they don't believe me, she said, he will kill me. She said, I didn't even tell the cops whenever he put me in the icu. And I said, what? And she just. No, she wouldn't tell me because she's still. She's like, I don't feel like someone should have to go to jail over this. And it's like, well, you know, because she's just so, like, you know, she. I don't want to ruin his life. And it's just like, you don't?
- [44:31]
Anya Cain
Yeah. You know, she's in that kind of toxic cycle where she's still trying to protect him even though he's harming her. Talk to me about the day of her death and sort of what you've learned about that.
- [44:45]
Megan
So all of that is happening. Her husband tried to hit me. It was like February 16th or something. I want to say, like, he tried hitting me three times in a row, like, had his fist pulled back and everything. And at one point, I was running away from him while he's like, coming after me. Well, that ignited my mom leaving. And so like, we went over there, we packed up all of her stuff. He was gone. An ambulance took him just because he was faking having seizures, which is, you know, that gave us time to get stuff out. And then it led to now it's like she's gone. She's happy she's gone, but it's like, oh, I want to go back, you know, whatever. So she did go and see him, but even whenever she went and saw him again, like, she was calling me, like, please come get me, like, I'm scared. And I remember I said, Give me 40 minutes. And she said, I don't know if I have that long because, like, she's like genuinely afraid of this guy. I'd even told 911 in like a text message and, you know, I've recorded calls of her talking about it. He was strangling her almost every day. And. And that is so scary because they say that in itself raises the risk of that person killing you by 750%. So. But now my mom feels bad. So, you know, she. She comes back with me, but she feels bad and she's like, you know, I don't want him to be homeless. He just hadn't been doing what he should be doing because he had told her, like, if you get rid of your car and all your credit cards, I'll pay the bills. Well, he didn't do that. Instead he just began to beat her for not contributing, I guess, which is insane to me. So they were already like pretty close to eviction, you know, so then especially he was like, okay, yeah, this is like, I have to get out of here by X date now. Because I'd contacted the landlord and told him, you know, all this stuff. So I said, okay. And I sent him to a rehab two hours away, mainly because it was a place to stay, which he needs help, a lot of help. But that is why I did that, because it had a transitional housing program. So, like, even after the 30 day rehab, they would help him. Okay, now you go here and here, and then we're going to help you get a place and a job and a this and a that. Well, and I'd even given him like 100 bucks and a carton of cigarettes. I mean, everything for this guy. Even after he tried to hit me, you know, and paid 150 bucks for an Uber to get him there. Well, he came right back after his 30 days and started talking to her again. And so she Went to a rehab, too, and she was doing great. Like, I mean, it was so crazy how good she was doing. And she started to even experience ptsd because she has. She had a therapist in there who even wrote about it and wrote about the abuse that she had been encountering. And she finally had a chance to, like, look back and be like, oh, my God, Like, I can't believe, you know, all of these things. Well, I guess that he just really convinced her that he was going to change. So February, she's with me for a little bit, is whenever she moved out. March. She was in rehab for, like, all of March. And then there's April. She's with me, and she's doing good. She's working again, et cetera, et cetera. But she's, like, talking to him off and on. He's literally over here getting kicked out of. They're not homeless. They're like halfway houses. Get it? How do you get kicked out of a halfway house? That's what he's doing. End of May, she goes and she moves back in with him. They get a place together. It wasn't even two weeks later, he was strangling her again, minimum. Just that I know about. And it was on her birthday, which is recorded. Even in that call, she references him strangling her. She says, did you not just have me on the floor? And he said, no. Which, mind you, he knew that I would record calls and stuff. So, like, he already knows she's on the phone with me. So he goes, oh, no, I didn't. I didn't do that. He go. She goes, why was I on the ground? And he said, oh, because. Because you're drunk. You fell, and I was helping you up. And she goes, really? She said, no one's going to buy that shit, oj. And, you know, it's like, we, like. That is recorded. So June, she goes back, et cetera, et cetera. And her and I just, like, are not getting along because, like, I mean, I begged and I cried for her to not go back. I said, I can't be in your life if you go back. Because I just. I figured if I said that, she wouldn't do it, and she did. And. And that, too. It's like, I can't. Especially with how hard it was just to get her out and with everything that had consisted of these few months. I cannot do that again. Just for you to, you know, like. Like, I'd been paying all of her bills, her, this, her. You know what I mean, everything. I just can't go back and forth like, you know, I don't support your relationship. I can't do this with you. So I had her phone number blocked also because he was texting me off of her phone and I didn't realize it until like I went back. But like there was one text and it was like, go die, you weird bitch. My mom would never say that to me, you know what I mean? But like, that's what I was getting. And I'm like so overwhelmed and upset. I, like, I'll just block her every now and again, unblock her, you know, whatever. So in September then I'd gotten a voicemail from her, but I didn't see it because it was blocked, you know. So it went to that other folder and I didn't even see that she called because like, I have like, like my notifications on my phone. It always shows I have, you know, missed calls, et cetera, et cetera. So I wasn't like, oh, someone, you know, I didn't, whatever. So September 2nd, she leaves me a voicemail and she's like, please help me get out of here, it's very dangerous here. And she's talking about like, I'm ready to sign a protective order and all of this stuff. Well, then September 25th, she leaves me another voicemail and it says, please help me, Please, please, please help me. And she says, he's been hitting me. And she said, he said he's not going to stop. So I get those and she's, you know, actively clearly trying to leave. It's just that she can't get a hold of me. Hi, I'm Richard Karn and you may have seen me on TV talking about.
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Anya Cain
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Megan
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Anya Cain
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Megan
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Anya Cain
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Megan
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Anya Cain
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Megan
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Anya Cain
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- [52:33]
Megan
October 10th. My grandmother tells me that no one had heard from her in two weeks and that everyone was, like, extremely concerned, clearly, because we already know the history. Oh, I don't know if I mentioned this or not, but she was never dying. Oh, I know.
- [52:49]
Anya Cain
Yeah.
- [52:49]
Megan
Yeah. You know, so all of that was all made up. I mean, there was even a time where he had told my grandmother that she was bleeding out all over the house and that she needed to go, like, have an ambulance come and get her and that he. Like, she was refusing it for him, like, wouldn't go in the car and go to the hospital. So then, of course, my grandmother freaks out that that's my daughter, you know, dying. Okay, get an ambulance over there. All for him to just beat her and say, like, why did you call the cops on me? It's crazy, you know? Yeah. So it's like, we have all these things, but.
- [53:26]
Anya Cain
So talk me through the circumstances of the death of the.
- [53:30]
Megan
Yes. So, October 10th. So I call for a domestic violence wellness check October 10th. Because I drove by that night, actually, like, I pulled up to their house, and I just got this extremely unsettling feeling, and I couldn't see anything going on in the house. And, like, I was like, do I watch too much True Crime? Or, like, is this a. Like, a body over here? Because they didn't have curtains up yet, so, like, I could see straight in, you know, And I'm like, whoa. Like, it just really freaked me out. And I. I was. You know, I was even, like, sitting there honking my horn and everything, and there's no movement. It gave me this unsettling feeling. So I drove, like, five minutes or, like, two minutes down the road, and I parked at the hospital, and I was, like. Called for a domestic violence wellness check. And I'm like. And I was. I even said, like, I can go with you guys. Like, I'm just terrified of her husband, you know, especially if, like, she is in there hurt. I even said, I want to make sure that she's not dead is what you know? And, like, that he didn't kill her. Said, you know, I can go with you or whatever, you know, I just don't want to go alone. I'M afraid. Well, they didn't call me back or anything, so I was like, okay. I guess everything's fine. The next day, I get all these messages from my grandma, and it's like, she's in the hospital. I'm like, what are you talking about? So I contact dispatch, and I'm like, what's going on? You know, nobody will tell me anything. Dispatch was like, ask her husband. And I'm like, he's literally, like, telling my grandma, like, it was a heart attack. I think he was saying it was a heart attack at that point. But, like, all these different stories. Like, another story was like, he was at the store, he came home, he just found her, and she's just not breathing. But I stayed up, like, all night because I called every single hospital. I even went to the hospital that she was at, and I was like, you know, she here? They were like, no. And I said, and mind, there's nobody behind me. And I was about to tell them, okay, well, because I know in some. Some instances, like, they can't. They're not supposed to say. So I was just gonna say, if she is here, can you look on her file? Because I guarantee you, because I was with her whenever she told you guys, to make sure I was the only person that should be allowed these things, you know, to have access to her records for her emergency contact, et cetera, et cetera, because she had removed him from everything. I didn't even get to say that before I was interrupted. And they were like, do you want me to get security? And I. I just froze because I'm like. Like, the officers won't tell me where she is. Dispatch won't tell me where she is. This hospital, I mean, all of these things, I'm told, like, wait till Monday, and it's a Friday night. I just froze. I was like, really? Like I said. I told the security girl. I was like, or the nurse. I said, I'm not being rude to you. I haven't raised my voice to you. I haven't cursed at you. There's not a line behind me. Why would you. You know, why would you say that? But. So I stayed up, like, all night. I couldn't sleep. Finally, I. The next day, I was like, I don't know what to do. So I contacted this domestic violence organization in our town, which had helped me before, but also, they were working with my mom at a point as well, for her husband. And I said, please help me. I don't know where my mom is. Am I just going to get A call that she's dead. What is going on? I guess they had to contact a victim advocate for the police who had to contact the chief of police to tell them where she was. So I go to. She was in the icu. She was in that same hospital. And I'm thinking, okay, great. Because I see her and like, she's clearly like, has something on, like her face, you know, like oxy, whatever it is. Oxygen, I think. But I'm like, okay, cool. You know, she's here, she's good, she's alive. I go in there and I'm like, what, what's going on? She's fine, right? Like, she's just. Just knocked her out maybe. Yeah. The doctor said, no, she's. She's gone. And I just fell. Like, I just fell. I'm like. I was like, I don't know what happened to her or what you were told. I said, but I guarantee you he did it. I said, I guarantee you. I said, because he strangled her almost every night. Like, that's not a normal thing, you know. And at this time, there is an RN in the room, me, a neurologist and a doctor. And the neurologist was like, went up to her, did a thing with her eyes or whatever and pretty much said, nope, no signs of strangulation. And the other doctor was like, yep, nothing. And the nurse piped up and she said, actually, there's some markings on her neck. And I didn't know what they were. Well, take a camera to it. You can see that they're clear fingerprint marks on her neck, the right side of her neck. And I had also asked, then later on I said, what are, you know, what is this on her neck? Because it looks like dried up blood, you know. And I'm like, this is weird. And I asked the doctor that, and he's like, I don't know, that's weird. Well, it's something called petechia. Petechia is. Is a huge finding in strangulation cases because it happens whenever you have blood vessels that essentially break underneath your skin. So kind of like if you were to, I mean, put pressure around your neck and that cuts off the circulation there. Well, you have all of these things trying to, you know, blood that now can't go up and down. So you have these little blood vessels that start to pop off and break underneath your skin. So whenever people that. In that spot, you know, that in itself, whenever it's next to. Especially the. The fingerprint pattern, bruises that are already there and fingernail marks. Because she also had fingernail incision marks in her neck and on her cheek. Then that says so much. You know, that doesn't just happen. And they do say that petechia can be caused in other ways. So they say, like, you know, there's other. Like, a small handful of incidents where you might have petechia, but it might be on your arm or here or. You know what I mean? It's. And it's still kind of from this. A similar situation, but whenever it's on your neck, like that accompanied with the other findings as well, that's not something that you can say was even caused from the intubation, from whenever they gave her the oxygen, because there's a handful of reports out there where someone got petechia from that. Okay, well, did they also have fingerprint bruise marks on their neck? Even in. In all of these strangulation cases, they say that having evidence that can even be photographed is so small. And they say it is rare for there to be that exact pattern on someone's neck. You know, so the fact that you have that says so much. So, mind you, whenever I was able to go and see her like, you, like, I just explained to you how hard it was for me to even figure out where she was. My mom's from Texas. And what she would always say. She'd say, like, she's. People on the phone are like, how do you spell Houston? She's like, just like the city. Well, she's from Texas, too. Not very far away from there. So her family. She has half of her family in Texas and, like, a handful of people in Indiana. So she really just has, like, her mom, her dad, her sister. You know, there's not a lot of, like, people here because of that. So whenever all this happened, her husband, because he never once contacted me, but he contacted her sister, her father, and I want to say her mother, but I can't be a hundred percent sure. I don't remember. But he was telling them all different stories. And on top, like, to add to it all, well, I guess he must have just gone over there and was like, well, I figured, I see you, you know, and just walked on in. But I was the first one to see her. Okay, so he had been in there the day before for, like, a minute or two. And it's even. It's so sad because they even say in the files, they're like, yeah, I don't really know what to do. Like, there's really no family here. Like, they were gonna just take her off because she was dead. You know, they Were just gonna cut the cord, and, like, that's it. Don't know what to do. Like, maybe complicated is what they said. Meanwhile, like, I'm there, and I'm like, let me. You know, let me see her. But something that he told my family, because how this hospital is set up is there's an icu. You just kind of. You go through the doors, and it's just straight ahead. There's no elevator or anything like that. Well, by the time I get done talking to the detectives, the day that I, like, I. I saw her in the hospital, I talked to detectives, and then I start getting these calls and text messages, and it's like, telling me all these different things that happened to her and saying that she is on the third floor. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Who's on the third floor? And he told my family, like, yeah, you know, let me know whenever you come into town, and if you want, you can even sleep on my couch. And was telling them, she's on the third floor of the icu. So, you know, you'll go in to the hospital, you'll take a left, take a right, take a left, and then you'll see the elevator, and then you go up to the third floor, and then you'll take a left and a right, and then she'll be right there. Like, this whole thing, which was not true, you know, never was true. But, I mean, if it says anything, every single person that saw her. I mean, I had my grandpa on the phone with me whenever I was telling him no, because he was like. Because I was like, it looks like her toes are broken. Or, you know, I was like, you don't. I was like, you don't understand. Like, she's been beaten. He's like, no, she hasn't. And for him, too, it was hard for him to, you know, like, accept what I was saying, understandably. But he's like, that's not true. I just got done talking to her husband. Da, da, da, da, da. Then whenever my grandpa did get into town and he saw my mom and also everyone else that did come to see her, they all said, why did he say those things to me? Why did he lie to me about what happened to her? It's just so clear, you know, every doctor, nurse, everyone. You don't just look like that. That doesn't just happen. But. And then it was like, as soon as. Because he was, like, calling them while they were on their way to town, you know, so, like, oh, yeah, I'm a couple Hours out. We're on our way now. Xyz. It was like he figured out what time they would be there, and he never contacted them again. It's like he almost knew, like, okay, like, the jig is up whenever they see her.
- [65:10]
Anya Cain
While we all waited for an update in the case, Megan went out and talked to one of her mom's friends, a man called Tony. She recorded that and sent it to us.
- [65:20]
Megan
Oh, if you just want to say real quick so I have it, just say, like, hi, my name's Tony or something. I don't know. So, like, they know your name.
- [65:28]
Tony
Oh, you want me to say my name?
- [65:30]
Megan
Yeah, just say hi.
- [65:31]
Tony
I'm telling you, it's kind of after the fact.
- [65:33]
Megan
Oh, I know, but we can edit it. Just say what? I'm sorry.
- [65:37]
Tony
Yep. Well, you know, my name is Tony.
- [65:40]
Megan
Okay.
- [65:41]
Tony
But I'll say it again just in case you want to edit a different way. Hi, my name is Tony.
- [65:47]
Megan
Alrighty.
- [65:49]
Kevin Greenlee
We wanted to share some of Tony's thoughts with you all. We feel this really gives an even fuller picture of Hope. One thing that we want everyone to get from this episode is that domestic abuse and violence does not happen to a certain type of person. You can be charismatic or quiet. You can be struggling or successful. You can be any demographic, man or woman, young or old, any type of background. It can truly happen to anyone.
- [66:18]
Anya Cain
Megan's talk with Tony provided us with even more insights on Hope's struggle and her fun and caring personality.
- [66:26]
Tony
It's one of those things, Megan, every once in a while, like I say, we would go months without speaking, and either she would call me or I would call her just to see how things were. And I certainly do miss that. I haven't talked to her in a couple years now. Like I say, anytime you. You did interact, regardless, it had been a month or three months or six months, it's like you just kind of picked up where you left off.
- [66:48]
Megan
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [66:49]
Tony
Very easy to get to know and. And genuine. Well, are just a good and. And very entertaining individual to say the least. Leslie had a kind of a genuine knack for just trying to make do with what she had to do, you know?
- [67:04]
Megan
Yeah.
- [67:05]
Tony
And. And I don't know that that's in any way what she wanted. And maybe the drinking got to the point because it wasn't really what she wanted, but she was never one to really complain about anything. You know, she would. She listened to everything that you had going on in your life, but kind of come across sometimes like she just was very Independent, so to speak. She was very headstrong.
- [67:32]
Megan
Right. But.
- [67:32]
Tony
But, you know, your mom went through a lot. And I mean, you know, she kind of shared some of the things that. That she'd been through, you know, even before she had you. But you know what the funny thing about it was? Leslie had a way of making a joke out of it. I remember we were sitting there one time, and out of nowhere, I mean, out of absolutely nowhere, we were having a conversation that I don't even remember what it was. And she said, just blurted out once we threw Cheetos and rats came.
- [68:05]
Kevin Greenlee
What?
- [68:08]
Tony
I don't know what that was about. I'm assuming maybe it was when she was in Muncie or something, But I don't remember the conversation we were having, but I remember your mom just saying that, and I was like, where did that come from? Everybody was just cracking up, laughing, including hers. Yeah, I think she did a lot of ways. Had a tough way to go sometimes. I mean, she was. Never really had anything came to her, you know what I mean? But loved her to death. And like I say, she was absolutely hilarious. The things that would come out of her mouth sometimes, it's just. Just absolutely hilarious. Megan, you were probably, I don't know, maybe three, four.
- [68:46]
Megan
Yeah.
- [68:47]
Tony
I don't know. Yeah, you were very, very young, but your mom was always really cool with us. And like I say, she just genuinely.
- [68:55]
Kevin Greenlee
Next, Tony got into Hope's relationship with.
- [68:57]
Tony
Daughtery, really, after she got with John and moved. Probably didn't talk to her more than two or three times total. And I really didn't hang out with her, to be honest with you. I kind of got the idea that it wasn't everything it was supposed to be. I don't know the guy. I just kind of always got the idea that it wasn't everything she wanted.
- [69:18]
Anya Cain
Toni even factored heavily into one of the last happy memories Megan had with Hope.
- [69:23]
Megan
I remember last year, whenever she was living with me, she was doing so good, and she had just, you know, left John and everything was going so well, and I was so happy, and she was happy and things were looking really well. I had told her about how you had moved to South Carolina and how you started the Airbnbs down there on Myrtle Beach. And we talked about planning a trip down there to come and see you and go to the beach and all that fun stuff. I mentioned to her that I was pretty positive that you would give us a good discount. She looked at me and she goes, you tell him I'm not paying And.
- [69:58]
Anya Cain
I was like, okay, I will.
- [70:02]
Tony
She was a funny person.
- [70:04]
Kevin Greenlee
Here is one more thing from Tony.
- [70:08]
Tony
But she was just genuinely a good person.
- [70:11]
Megan
Well, thank you, Tony.
- [70:13]
Tony
And I will tell you this much though.
- [70:15]
Megan
Yes.
- [70:16]
Tony
Seriously, congratulations on keeping on, keeping on here with this because Megan, if, if you didn't do what you've been doing, justice would have never been served on this. And I just think that's, that should be inspirational to a lot of people that's in your position because you know what, you managed to balance day to day life and still pursue this so that, so that in honor of your mother that justice prevailed because obviously sometimes the system is severely broken.
- [70:47]
Megan
Yeah.
- [70:47]
Tony
And good for you for, good for you for hanging in there and keep pushing the envelope on this because it's the right thing.
- [70:54]
Megan
Thank you. I'm actually starting a non profit. It's called Silver Lining of Hope because her name's Leslie Hope Houston. So I'm starting that and that's kind of what it's going to be about because like you said, the system is broken. And I want to try to help people, whether it's prosecutors, detectives, or even family members who don't know where to start. And also, you know, advocating for domestic violence victims, survivors, and then those also who didn't make it and just a ton of different things.
- [71:26]
Tony
Well, you've been through a lot yourself, young lady. And, and your mom shared me, shared with me a lot of that too over the years. I remember she was there one time just bawling her eyes out when she said, that's my girl. You know, and just knowing what you went through. Your mom had a, you know, she, she wanted, wanted you to get to, to have a better life. But I mean, the fact that you, you remind me a lot of her that even in the face of adversity, you keep on keeping on and doing what's doing what's right and, and, and good for you for, for keeping on with this because like I say, you're, you're the one that made this happen.
- [72:06]
Megan
I appreciate it, Tony. Like I said, I'll keep you updated and thank you for talking with me and I hope you have a good night.
- [72:13]
Tony
Hey, God bless and love you, girl. And call me anytime.
- [72:16]
Megan
All right? I love you.
- [72:20]
Anya Cain
We completely agree with Toni. Megan did so much for this case. One thing Megan shared with us recently is that since the local news picked up her story, she's seen comments from people who blame Hope's family for not rescuing her.
- [72:34]
Kevin Greenlee
We need to make one thing clear. The blame for abuse should lie with the abuser first and foremost. In our view, people engage in this past. The blamer on behavior is a self protective measure. They think to themselves, well, I would never let my loved one stay with a man like that, or my family would never let that happen because that makes them feel safer. Because they have no idea how hard it is to separate a victim from the abuser. We understand where that impulse comes from, but it is always free and easy for everyone to simply forego commenting on a situation or a topic that we know little about.
- [73:15]
Anya Cain
Megan spent weeks trying to get her mom out. When she first heard about the abuse, she showed up for her again and again. She succeeded in getting Hope away from Daughtery, but it was not enough. That is not because Megan did anything wrong. Hope chose to go back because the grip of these toxic relationships are extremely intense. None of that is the fault of Megan or Hope's other loved ones. When Hope went back to her abuser, Megan confronted her. She noted the abuse. She even brought up the fact that this man had threatened her. Megan got so desperate, she ended up telling Hope, I won't be in your life, mom, if you go back. But her mother did not listen. Instead, Hope went back and then started mirroring daughtery's toxic behavior towards her own child, likely as a method of appeasement. Megan was left to confront a confusing and ever changing situation. One moment, Hope would be yelling at her, you shouldn't have let me leave him the first time. Then a few days later, Hope would say, please help me. You are right again and again and again.
- [74:16]
Kevin Greenlee
If we want to have productive conversations, we can talk about how to reach people who are being abused, or how to put away abusers, or how to make that process easier or how to make those sentences longer. Megan also has some advice for those in the system.
- [74:34]
Megan
If you're listening to this and you're a doctor, a nurse, an emt, a paramedic, a coroner, a medical examiner, a pathologist, a firefighter, a police officer, a detective, a prosecutor, a judge, or anyone who works face to face with people. This part is for you. Please get trained on strangulation. I'm not talking about a bullet point in domestic violence training or any other slide buried in some sort of PowerPoint. I'm talking about real evidence based in depth training, the kind that will help you recognize what's often missed. The Training Institute on Strangulation Prevention, based in San Diego, is one of the best resources. They offer free materials, videos, research articles, and both in person and virtual trainings. They even travel to train entire departments. All you have to do is ask. Even if you think you already know the signs. I urge you to go deeper. Advocate for more training for your team. Take a course yourself. Stay current because strangulation is often invisible and it's deadly. What we don't know about strangulation will continue to kill and leave the perpetrators free to do it again. The more we know, the more lives we can save, including people just like my mom.
- [76:07]
Anya Cain
Megan is now working to bridge the gap between authorities and families in cases like this. She founded Silver Lining of Hope. This is an organization that seeks to foster some of those connections. The goal is to save the next domestic abuse victim as well as to work towards justice in cases where domestic abuse takes another life. We will include a link in our show notes we want to sincerely thank Megan for sharing her story with us. Our hearts go out to her and her mom and we want to say again how impressed we are with her advocacy. We think her mom would be so proud of her for what she's doing.
- [76:45]
Kevin Greenlee
Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us@murdersheetmail.com if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.
- [77:05]
Anya Cain
If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com murdersheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www. Buymeacoffee.com murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.
- [77:29]
Kevin Greenlee
Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the web at kevintg.
- [77:39]
Anya Cain
If you're looking to talk with other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.