The Murder of Scott Macklem: The Guilt of Temujin Kensu: Part Two: "He Is A Frightening Person"

Summary

Episode Summary: "The Murder of Scott Macklem: The Guilt of Temujin Kensu: Part Two: 'He Is A Frightening Person'"

Episode Overview

In the second installment of their deep dive into the controversial case of Temujin Kensu, hosts Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee continue to build a compelling narrative supporting Kensu's guilt in the murder of Scott Macklem. Released on May 6, 2025, this episode meticulously examines eyewitness testimonies, Kinzu's suspicious behavior following his arrest, and incriminating evidence that ties him directly to the crime scene.

Witness Testimonies

Janice Kuz's Account ([06:36] - [12:13])

Janice Kuz, a secretary at St. Clair Community College, recounts her encounter on the morning of November 5, 1986. She describes observing a man whose attire stood out: "he was wearing very casual, loose-fitting army clothes" ([07:02] Áine Cain). Notably, a green army jacket matching her description was later found in Kinzu's car. Janice emphasizes the man's intense demeanor, stating, "He looked very intense... something was going down" ([12:17]). Her detailed observation of the man's clothing and behavior provides a strong visual link to Kinzu.

Richard Krueger's Testimony ([07:21] - [13:33])

Richard Krueger, present at the college for a symposium, offers a more detailed observation of the same individual. He recalls parking near the individual, noting his struggle to enter an exit-only door: "He tried to get in that door, to try to look casual. Didn't work" ([10:24] Áine Cain). Krueger later identifies Kinzu in a lineup, though Kinzu altered his appearance by shaving, complicating identification ([13:33] Kevin Greenlee).

Renee Gobine's Identification ([16:25] - [21:11])

Renee Gobine, another eyewitness, describes seeing a small gold-colored car approaching amid confusion following a loud bang ([16:25] Anya Cain). She provides a vivid description of the driver: "a white male... with a green, drab, kind of army-style jacket" ([19:44] Anya Cain). Gobine confidently identifies Kinzu as the driver, reinforcing the connection between the suspect and the crime scene.

Kathleen Ballard's Experience ([21:59] - [25:08])

Kathleen Ballard recounts hearing the gunshot and subsequent screams, initially mistaking them for a prank ([22:06] Anya Cain). She later identifies a car matching Kinzu's description as it approached her vehicle. Her testimony emphasizes the eerie coincidence of sounds and the precise identification of Kinzu as the driver fleeing the scene.

Philip Joplin's Testimony ([34:22] - [43:25])

Philip Joplin, who shared a holding cell with Kinzu, provides crucial insights into Kinzu's character and mindset. Joplin describes Kinzu's frustration over the lack of media coverage on his case and his attempts to rekindle a relationship with Crystal, a victim who had threatened to reveal his threats against Macklem ([28:30] Anya Cain). Kinzu's statements, such as admitting to "shooting people" and boasting about an "airtight alibi," further solidify suspicions of his involvement ([38:09] Anya Cain).

Crystal's Testimony ([31:38] - [40:34])

Crystal, directly affected by Kinzu's actions, testifies about their interaction following the murder. She details a disturbing conversation where Kinzu remains unfazed by the murder charges, highlighting his manipulative and threatening nature: "He's a frightening person" ([43:26] Anya Cain). Crystal's account of Kinzu's demeanor and statements provides a personal and harrowing perspective on his guilt.

Analysis of Evidence

Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee meticulously connect the dots between the eyewitness accounts and physical evidence. The consistent identification of Kinzu by multiple witnesses, combined with the discovery of his green army jacket at the crime scene, builds a robust case against him. Additionally, Kinzu's unauthorized efforts to alter his appearance before official lineups suggest a conscious attempt to evade identification, a common behavior exhibited by guilty individuals.

Temujin Kinzu's Behavior Post-Arrest

Following his arrest, Kinzu's actions raised significant red flags. His immediate reaction to being informed of the warrant—insulting the deceased—indicates a personal vendetta. Moreover, his attempts to modify his appearance twice before lineups not only impeded the identification process but also demonstrated his awareness of his connection to the crime. This behavior was further scrutinized when Kinzu threatened a witness, Renee Gobine, in court: "I'll get you" ([45:09] Kevin Greenlee).

Conclusion and Verdict

The hosts summarize the prosecution's case, highlighting Kinzu's violent history, threats against Scott Macklem, and incriminating statements made post-murder. With multiple witnesses placing him at the scene and physical evidence corroborating their accounts, the jury's verdict of guilt aligns with the presented evidence. Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee affirm their belief in Kinzu's culpability, stating, "Temujin Kenzoo is guilty. He killed Scott Macklem" ([45:00] Kevin Greenlee).

Teaser for Next Episode

The episode concludes with a promise to explore Kinzu's ongoing attempts to manipulate public perception and the legal system through lies and character assassination. Áine Cain teases an in-depth discussion on Kinzu's strategies to garner sympathy and obscure the truth in future episodes.

Notable Quotes

• Janice Kuz ([07:02] Áine Cain): "He didn't fit the character. He was wearing very casual, loose-fitting, what I would call army clothes."

• Richard Krueger ([10:24] Áine Cain): "He tried to get in that door, to try to look casual. Didn't work."

• Renee Gobine ([19:44] Anya Cain): "He appeared to be wearing a green, drab, kind of army-style jacket and just the hat."

• Philip Joplin ([28:30] Anya Cain): "He says, well, it had to be in the newspaper, had to be on the radio."

• Crystal ([43:26] Anya Cain): "He's a frightening person."

• Kinzu in Court ([45:09] Kevin Greenlee): "I'll get you."

Final Thoughts

This episode of Murder Sheet deftly weaves together eyewitness testimonies, physical evidence, and psychological analysis to present a compelling case for Temujin Kinzu's guilt. Through detailed narratives and strategic presentation of facts, Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee provide listeners with a thorough understanding of the complexities surrounding the murder of Scott Macklem.

Transcript

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[Kevin Greenlee]

This is the second of our episodes detailing the case against temujin Kinzu. In 1987, Kinzu was convicted for the murder of Scott Macklem. In the decades since, his advocates have argued strenuously that that this was a wrongful conviction and that he is clearly innocent.

[Anya Cain]

When we looked at the case, we came to a strikingly different conclusion. We are convinced that he is guilty as charged. In our first episodes on the case, we are going into some detail as to why we believe that in follow up episodes coming very soon, we will discuss the claims Kenzu and his supporters have made while arguing for his innocence. So if you are a Ken Zoo supporter and think we have left something out, please be patient and wait for the follow ups. We intend to cover it all.

[Kevin Greenlee]

If you have not listened to our first episode. Please go back and do so. It gives some crucial background and context to the crime. This episode will open on the morning of the murder itself.

[Anya Cain]

My name is Anya Cain. I'm a journalist.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And I'm Kevin Greenlee. Hi. I'm an attorney.

[Anya Cain]

And this is the Murder Sheet.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews and deep dives into murder cases.

[Anya Cain]

We're the Murder Sheet.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And this is the murder of Scott Macklem. The Guilt of Temujin Kinzu Part 2. He is a frightening person. Let's go back to a parking lot at St. Clair Community College on the morning of November 5, 1986. This is the time and the place the 20 year old Scott Macklem would be shot to death. The murder happened just a few minutes before 9am as we look at that.

[Anya Cain]

Day, we'll start with Janice Kuz. Janice was a secretary at the college. As she drove towards the parking lot, she spotted a man on the sidewalk walking towards the lot. He made an impression on her. Here's some of Janice's testimony. I will read her words and Kevin will read the question from prosecutor Robert Cleland.

[Kevin Greenlee]

What was it about this man that stuck in your memory?

[Anya Cain]

Well, he didn't fit the character. He was wearing very casual, loose fitting, what I would call army clothes. They were khaki colored and a navy. What I would call a navy watch cap, the knitted cap. And he just didn't fit the character of the student.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Okay, so she did not get close enough to this man to get a good look at his face. But as you've seen, she did clearly see what he was wearing. And we should note that a green army jacket was later found in Kinzu's own car. Janice said that Kinzu's jacket looked like the coat she saw the man wearing that morning. So our next witness is Richard Krueger. He went to the college that morning for a symposium. He got there around 8am and he had an encounter with the same man Janice had seen a few minutes earlier. And as we will hear, he had more time to get a good look at this man than Janice had. So let's go to his testimony. I'll read the questions from prosecutor Cleland and Anya will read Richard's words. And we start with Richard speaking.

[Anya Cain]

When I entered the lot, I took the stub, I looked up and there was somebody standing directly in front of me at the end of the lot in a kind of bush setting, there was some shrubbery. I just started to view the Person started to drive in and slowed down. I kept my eye on the person for the purpose of. I had no idea why the person was there, but he stayed there too long. It wasn't like they were transiting the area. He was there. He was looking for something. I kept watching him, and pretty soon I slowed down, almost came to a stop because I wasn't leaving my car until I knew what was going on. Then I thought, I'm not going to park in the front aisle because I'm putting myself in jeopardy, walking right into somebody. I slowed, turned in, kept the person in view, watched them at that point in time, got out of my car, stood, and then he saw me. In other words, we were at that time looking at each other, just like you and I are looking at each other.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Okay. But before this, he'd been looking in a. In a different direction.

[Anya Cain]

He was looking. Well, he never saw me until I was in a short distance, maybe 40 or 50, 60ft. He never viewed me until. He wasn't watching me. I was watching him.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Which direction was he looking?

[Anya Cain]

He was facing towards the art building of the college campus.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Okay.

[Anya Cain]

So then I parked, stood up, looked, got out of the car. At that point, I had established that there was something that wasn't right. And I wasn't about to leave my car, got out of the car, looked back. At that point in time, we sensed each other's awareness. We, like, looked at each other, turned around, he left to go. When he left to go, he returned and went back to the building behind. In other words, the building where he was standing.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So this is the north side of the McMorin building.

[Anya Cain]

The north side.

[Kevin Greenlee]

What did you know and what did you see about him and relating to the north side of McMorran then?

[Anya Cain]

Well, the confusion was we'd obviously made contact visually. He became disruptive, he left. Then he became nonchalant. Well, it wasn't nonchalant because he walked right up to a door that you couldn't get in. There's no hardware to get in. In other words, they're exit doors only at that point in time, he turned and came right back out.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Did he appear to try to get into that door.

[Anya Cain]

He tried to get in that door, to try to look casual. Didn't work. Turned back around, and as he came back out, I'm still at my car watching the event. Turned, and we look at each other again. At that point, he turned the end of the building, speeded up and ran.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Okay, I'm stepping out of the testimony for a moment to Say that this person that Janice and Richard saw clearly did not want to be noticed or observed as he hung out around the parking lot area. But it was too late. Richard got a great look at this man. Let's go back to the testimony. And now I'm going to read the words of prosecutor Cleland. Can you describe what you remember seeing about this person? The way that he appeared and was dressed? First of all, let me ask you, could you tell it was male as opposed to female person?

[Anya Cain]

Male. The beard.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And Approximately what age?

[Anya Cain]

20S, you know.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And approximately what size? You know, unusually small. Unusually large or somewhere in the middle?

[Anya Cain]

Somewhere in the middle. My size. Six footish.

[Kevin Greenlee]

What about the person? Do you remember in terms of his clothing? Anything that stands out in your memory?

[Anya Cain]

It was very obvious to me because of the lighting and the. That kind of fall looking had a green and that I emphasized the green over and over. It was a green kind of fatigue jacket. And it was peculiar because it was zipped right up to the top. I mean, it wasn't like casual. The coat was zipped right up to the top. And I spent four years in the navy and I never had seen anyone wear a watch cap like this. The watch cap was on, and it was right at his eyes. I mean, looked peculiar. I mean, just looked very peculiar.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Is this something else that draws your attention to this person?

[Anya Cain]

He looked very intense. Like our eye contact was like. When I look at you, it's like right in your eyes. We were not. His intensity was very intense. Like there was something going down. And that was one of the reasons I wasn't moving. I was staying where I was at till I saw what was happening.

[Kevin Greenlee]

When you describe a watch cap, what are you talking about?

[Anya Cain]

Well, navy terms, it is called a Siemens cap. It has no bill. It's just kind of like a sock. And you put it over your head.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And it made out of knitted material.

[Anya Cain]

It is knitted material.

[Kevin Greenlee]

What about the person's face, do you remember?

[Anya Cain]

Well, the cap, of course, this had him profiled the whole. Whole time I was observing him. The cap accented the jaw, and it was kind of a protruding jaw, you know, stuck out. And the eyes were very intense, very deep and intense.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And was the person. From what you recollect and observed, was the person clean shaven or otherwise wasn't clean shaven?

[Anya Cain]

No. He had about. I would estimate it was that time of the year, deer season. You know how the guys grow a beard? Probably six days. Six days growth.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Of course, that would depend on the person.

[Anya Cain]

It wasn't clean shaven. You could see that there wasn't a full beard. Wasn't a beard, but there was whiskers involved.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Was the person, as far as you were able to tell, carrying anything? Had anything in his hands?

[Anya Cain]

Nothing.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Okay, stepping back from the testimony, we should know that a few days later, police had Richard come in and look at a series of pictures of different people. That time, he selected a picture of Kinzu and identified him as the man he saw. Remember too, there was a jacket found in Kinzu's vehicle later which fit the description of the jacket that Janice and Richard saw the suspicious man wearing. After Kinzu's arrest, Richard came in to view him as part of an in person lineup. He testified later that at the time of the lineup, Kinzu appeared to be clean shaven, which was not how he appeared when Richard saw him on the day of the murder. Now, it's unclear why Kinzu would have shaved prior to this lineup, but we will note that prior to two other scheduled lineups, Kinzu somehow smuggled in a razor and shaved. This altered his appearance. We will talk more about that later. But perhaps because of Kinzu's altered appearance, Richard did not identify him at that time.

[Anya Cain]

But in court, Richard made it clear that the suspicious man he saw in the college parking lot that morning was Temujin Kenzou. These days, we're all vulnerable to surveillance and data breaches. Delete Me is a service that lets you remove your personal data online. And it's easy, quick, and safe.

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[Kevin Greenlee]

Let's go back to that parking lot on November 5, 1986. Rene Gobine was a student at that college and he arrived on that particular morning around 8:50am because that would give him plenty of time to make it to his 9am class. Is he started for that class, he stopped and he chatted with a friend. So let's go to his testimony, hear him tell his story. Anya will read his words and I will read the questions from prosecutor Cleland.

[Anya Cain]

While we were talking, we heard a loud bang. It sounded like a gunshot or, you know, like a tire blown out. We looked around briefly and the echoes of it sounded like it came from between the marina and the central fire hall. And we heard four or five short screams, you know, right after it. But the way it sounded, it sounded more like someone was playing a joke or messing around.

[Kevin Greenlee]

What did the scream sound? It did not sound serious to you?

[Anya Cain]

It sounded more or less like somebody was joking around. You always hear a hear a bang. Somebody's going to do that. Oh, oh, oh, oh. And that's more or less what it sounded like.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Was the noise loud enough to stop your conversation?

[Anya Cain]

Yes, we stopped dead in the conversation and that drew our attention.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Look around.

[Anya Cain]

Yes.

[Kevin Greenlee]

As you looked around that moment, as you looked around, was there anything to be seen?

[Anya Cain]

I didn't see anything unusual.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And what was the next thing that happened?

[Anya Cain]

I looked and I saw in the direction the sound came from, I saw a small gold colored car, a light gold colored car driving towards me or driving in our direction, I should say.

[Kevin Greenlee]

What's the next thing that you remember happening?

[Anya Cain]

I remember as it approached, I got a weird feeling like something wasn't right with it and I don't know, just something said look at it and get a good look. And as it approached, I got a good look at the driver. I focused right on the driver and.

[Kevin Greenlee]

The car itself, the person. You say you got a good look at the driver.

[Anya Cain]

Yes.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Were you able to see enough to tell whether there was anyone other than the driver in the car?

[Anya Cain]

Oh, yes, it was just the driver in the car.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Was there anything about the way the driver was situated in the car behind the Wheel that might have drawn your attention as you looked. As you were looking at it, he was bent forward.

[Anya Cain]

Like he was kind of like this with his head down, but looking up like that. Trying to. Just looked like he was trying to be. Trying to be kind of nonchalant or something. But he had his head down but just looking up with his eyes, which was very strange.

[Kevin Greenlee]

What do you remember about the appearance of the person that was driving the car? First? Were you able to see enough to tell was it male or female? It was male, Caucasian or otherwise?

[Anya Cain]

It was a white male. He was approximately 20 to 25 years old. He had a thin. It was. He had a full mustache, but the beard was thinner. It wasn't, you know, as full as the mustache. Looked like he had just grown it for a little bit. He had dark hair that was sticking out underneath the hat he was wearing. He was wearing a dark blue or black hat with a red trim. Looked like a ski mask with the hole for the mouth. Looked like there was red trim around that.

[Kevin Greenlee]

But that was up on top of his head?

[Anya Cain]

Yes, on top of his head. His face was exposed.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Did you see enough of his hair to figure out what color his hair would have been?

[Anya Cain]

Yes, dark colored hair.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Did you notice anything else about what the individual was wearing or appeared to be wearing?

[Anya Cain]

He appeared to be wearing a green, drab, kind of army style jacket and just the hat. That was what I had seen.

[Kevin Greenlee]

During the time this person was driving the car and heading generally in your direction, you're looking through the windshield at him?

[Anya Cain]

Yes.

[Kevin Greenlee]

How tall are you?

[Anya Cain]

6, 2, 6, 3.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Approximately how large a car was this being operated?

[Anya Cain]

It was more or less. It was. I guess they consider it a small station wagon type.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You're looking. If it were close to you, would you be looking down at it?

[Anya Cain]

If it was right up next to me, I'd be looking down, but at the distance it was. I was more or less looking straight through at it. Plus the driver was leaning forward, which, you know, put his face right into my view.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Do you remember the driver ever making eye contact with you?

[Anya Cain]

No. He looked straight ahead. He wasn't looking side to side or anything.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Recognizing Mr. Gilbein, that there is a difference between the ability to describe someone and the ability to recognize someone. From all that you saw that day during this encounter, do you feel that you would be able to recognize that person should you see him again?

[Anya Cain]

Yes, definitely.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Have you seen that person since that time?

[Anya Cain]

Yes, I have.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Is that person in the courtroom today?

[Anya Cain]

Yes, he is.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So at this point, Renee Goldmine identified Temujin Kinzu as the man he saw driving away from the murder scene. Remember, too, that Richard Kruger also identified Kinzu as the man he saw slinking around the area a little earlier. And Renee's testimony matches both Richard's and Janice's testimony. They all describe the man wearing the green army jacket, a jacket matching that description, of course, later found in Kinzu's car. Let's hear from one more witness on this point. Kathleen Ballard arrived at the lot around 8:55am as she walked to her class, something happened. Let's go right to her own words from her testimony. Anya will read what she had to say and I will read the questions from prosecutor Cleland.

[Anya Cain]

I heard a shot.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Is it possible for you to put into words what that sounded like to you?

[Anya Cain]

I had no idea at the time that it was a shot because I had never really heard one. Thought at first maybe it was a tire or a firecracker, but I really wasn't sure. And I looked around to see what other people's reactions were.

[Kevin Greenlee]

What was your reaction at that moment?

[Anya Cain]

Basically, all I had in mind was getting to class. But I looked around to see what are other people's reactions were. And I thought, well, it is nothing. No one else was acting like it was anything serious.

[Kevin Greenlee]

What did you do then or what did you do or hear next?

[Anya Cain]

After that, I heard a scream and I didn't think it sounded like someone who was screaming if it was seriously a shot. I thought maybe it was somebody screaming to pretend they were shot. When you hear a loud noise when you go to the fireworks, people scream like they got shot. And it doesn't sound like it sounds like someone joking around.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Could you tell if it was a male voice or otherwise?

[Anya Cain]

It sounded to me like a male voice trying to sound like a woman trying to sound like a hysterical woman. Didn't sound like they were screaming for real. Sounded like they were trying to pretend they were screaming.

[Kevin Greenlee]

All right, so what was the next thing that happened that you can recollect after that?

[Anya Cain]

I again looked around the parking lot to see if anyone else was taking note of this or if they thought it was anything to be taken seriously. And I noticed a car back out further on the south, down the same aisle, and it backed out with its back end towards the south and it came north towards me.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Is it possible for you to remember anything about the car? Real big car or real small or light colored, dark color? Do you recollect anything about that that you can bring out now?

[Anya Cain]

It was A smaller size car. I remember it being a really strange color, not real descriptive, kind of a reddish tan color. It was a smaller car, kind of, kind of boxy. I have no idea the make or anything like that.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Is it possible for you to see whether there was more than the person driving the car in the car?

[Anya Cain]

No, there was just one person.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Were you able to see if the person driving was male or female?

[Anya Cain]

Male, definitely male.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And from your vantage point at this time, were you able to tell whether the male driving appeared to be Caucasian or Negro or any other particular racial description?

[Anya Cain]

He was Caucasian.

[Kevin Greenlee]

From this first observation, were you able to tell whether this male Caucasian was quite young, quite old, or consistent with college age? What can you recollect about that?

[Anya Cain]

He looked to me to be college age, anywhere from 18 to 25.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Okay. The car backed out and headed towards you. Did you observe the car as it is driving towards you?

[Anya Cain]

Yes. I couldn't see the driver's face as he was driving towards me. And as he got close enough for me to see his face, I looked towards the window and he ducked his head toward me and put his hands up like that.

[Kevin Greenlee]

From what you could see of him, what were you able. Do you remember anything about the impression that this made on you without words being spoken, but just with body language of appearance, what impression was this leaving with you at the time?

[Anya Cain]

Well, I wasn't able to see the details of his face close enough. I wasn't close enough to him to look when I was. He ducked his face to me, as I said, out when he was far enough away that I couldn't see the details. He appeared to be laughing or like he had just got done playing a joke. And the whole time I had in my mind that it was all a practical joke. I didn't think any of it was serious. I thought it was just a game or prank that someone was playing.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So the looking on this person from what you observed from that first distance, the look on the driver's face was apparently tied in with your first impression that it wasn't real, it wasn't serious or true?

[Anya Cain]

Exactly.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Well, unfortunately, it was real because Scott Macklem had really been shot and killed.

[Anya Cain]

Kathleen went on to tell the court that Temujin Kenzu appeared to her to be the man she saw driving the car away from the murder site.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Because of Kinzu's history of harassment and his threats against Scott, and because witnesses identified him via photographs as being near the murder scene, police immediately became quite interested in Temujin Kenzie.

[Anya Cain]

When Kenzu was Informed over the telephone by a police officer that there was a warrant out for his arrest for the murder of Scott Macklem. Kenzu's immediate reaction was to call Macklem a slime bag. If you respond to the news of someone's death with a personal insult about them, you presumably have deep feelings against them. Over the years, Kenzu has sometimes suggested that he barely knew Maklem and would presumably have no reason to wish him dead. But he knew him well enough to greet the news of his death with abuse. Kensu's phone conversation with the officer went on. And there was something else said that we want to highlight. Kenzu asked the officer how the murder happened, and the officer replied that Macklem had been shot.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Kenzie replied by asking, where did it happen? In a parking lot. And then he sort of stuttered and said, or in a house.

[Anya Cain]

The officer had not told him that the murder happened in a parking lot. And we would go so far as to say that a parking lot is not likely to be too many persons first guess as to where a murder might have just happened. The fact that Kenzu said that and then immediately started stuttering and trying to backtrack with another guess is another small indicator to us of his guilt. On November 13, 1986, a little over a week after the murder, there was a long call between Kenzou and Crystal. A police officer named David hall listened in on most of it. His primary objective was to encourage Crystal to keep Kenzu on the line as long as possible. By this time, there was a warrant out for Kenzu's arrest for the murder, and the police hoped to be able to trace the call to determine Kenzu's whereabouts.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Both hall and Crystal later offered testimony about this call. We want to highlight a few excerpts of the things that were said, and we are going to listen to some of the testimony of Officer Hall. His words will be read by Anya, and I will read the questions from the prosecutor. We pick it up with Hull discussing an aspect of the case that seemed to especially annoy Kinzu. Kinzu wanted the case to get more attention.

[Anya Cain]

He says, well, it had to be in the newspaper, had to be on the radio. And he says, didn't you hear it in the news? They won't let me listen to the news. Was it on tv? A murder in a town this size had to be on tv. She says, no, they wouldn't tell. He says, well, maybe they're just trying to protect you.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Did you detect any difference in his tone of voice or the way in which he was Speaking during the time he was asking her about this, the newspaper, the television, the radio and so forth. And she kept saying, no, she hadn't seen anything and hadn't been on.

[Anya Cain]

He was becoming very upset that it wasn't on the TV wasn't on the radio, wasn't in the newspaper. Very astonished that it wasn't in the newspapers.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Stepping back from the testimony for a moment, we want to note that hall also told the court that Kinzu seemed to still be interested in Crystal.

[Anya Cain]

Let's return to the testimony.

[Kevin Greenlee]

During the conversation, were there things that were said that you recall and noted that indicated an interest or a continuing interest by Kinzu in Crystal? Was there any indication that you heard of him wanting to rekindle anything or to get back with in connection with her?

[Anya Cain]

His voice would soften up and he says, so Crystal, I really wish I could get back up there and see you. Maybe I can straighten this thing out. Maybe someday we can get back together and we'll get this straightened out. He said that, referred to that a couple of times through the conversation.

[Kevin Greenlee]

More than once then, yes. During his testimony to the court, hall also recalled Kinzu making some interesting comments about the case.

[Anya Cain]

Let's hear more of Hall's testimony now.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Did Kinzu ever express to her his opinion about the case or the police investigation at the time?

[Anya Cain]

When he asked her where the case was at, referring to the police investigation, asked, does the police have the weapon? And she said, I don't know. Well, you know, do they have the car that's involved? I don't know. And a short time later, he said, well, look, I didn't own the murder weapon and they're never going to find it, nor are they going to find the car.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Let's pause a moment here to note that Kinzie was correct. They never did find that car, nor did they ever find the murder weapon. So hall also discussed an intelligence, an instance where, at the very least, Kinzu showed his willingness to treat the murder as fodder for jokes.

[Anya Cain]

Let's hear more from his testimony.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Do you recollect a time when Crystal asked him what he had been doing, how he'd been spending his time lately?

[Anya Cain]

Yes. It was at that low part of the conversation. Crystal said, what have you been doing with yourself lately? He came back with a chuckly voice, just driving around shooting people. She said, what did you say? And he said, nothing. Came back with nothing.

[Kevin Greenlee]

I want to mention that there was another moment from this call that stood out to Crystal, and she told the court about it in her Own testimony.

[Anya Cain]

We will now hear some testimony from Crystal. I will read her words, and Kevin will read the questions from prosecutor Cleland.

[Kevin Greenlee]

At some point during the conversation, do you remember him telling you that you had caused him a problem?

[Anya Cain]

Yes. That was a big thing.

[Kevin Greenlee]

He said, set the context or what was being discussed before this I can't.

[Anya Cain]

Remember we talked about before, but he said we were talking. Oh, shoot. I can't even remember exactly, But I remember he said, you caused me a problem, so I took care of it.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Was the context around that having to do anything with Scott or with your friendship with Scott?

[Anya Cain]

I think it was right after I told him we were engaged.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So shortly after Kinzu's call with Crystal, Kinzu was, in fact, arrested. At that time, he had a bit of a beard which matched the description of the gunman. Soon after his arrest, Kinzu got notified that he would be participating in a lineup to see if the witnesses would identify him. Prior to that lineup, Kinzu obtained unauthorized access to a razor and gave himself a shave and a haircut. This changed his appearance so much that it made the lineup worthless, and so it was canceled. A couple of weeks later, after his whiskers had a chance to grow back, another lineup was scheduled. And again, soon before it was supposed to happen, Kinzu again somehow accessed a razor and again drastically altered his appearance by shaving.

[Anya Cain]

What kind of person deliberately changes his appearance just before being seen by eyewitnesses? A guilty person, that's who.

[Kevin Greenlee]

He knew he was there. He knew he pulled the trigger. He knew he killed Scott Macklem, and he knew that these people saw him. But he wanted to make it as difficult as possible for them to identify him. And so he took steps to change his appearance before the lineup, not once, but twice.

[Anya Cain]

A few months after his arrest, Kenzie was temporarily placed into a holding cell with a man named Philip Joplin. Joplin had a long criminal history and had served time for offenses such as passing bad checks and receiving stolen property. At the time, Joplin had recently pled guilty to some charges he faced and was brought over to court for sentencing. It was then that he and Kenzie were placed together in a holding cell. Joplin discussed what happened next in his testimony at Kenzu's trial. I will read his words, and Kevin will read the questions from prosecutor Cleland.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Before you were placed in that holding cell, did anyone from the police or from the prosecutor's office or from any source talk with you about that this was Kenzo and that he was charged with murder and that we were putting you in there or anything of that nature?

[Anya Cain]

No.

[Kevin Greenlee]

As far as you are concerned, was this just an ordinary transport for court proceedings upon a Monday afternoon?

[Anya Cain]

Yes.

[Kevin Greenlee]

During the time that you were in there, I will ask you whether a conversation began between yourself and Mr. Kinzu.

[Anya Cain]

Yes.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Do you recollect how. Is there anything in your memory as to how that began?

[Anya Cain]

Well, he was telling me a little things about what he was there for, and then I was telling him about what I was in there for.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Did he know, apparently, at the beginning of this relationship, did he know anything about it or what you were there for?

[Anya Cain]

Not until we got to talking. Then he said he'd read articles in the newspaper about me.

[Kevin Greenlee]

What did you explain to him about why you were there and what was happening to you? How did you put that into words for him?

[Anya Cain]

I told him that I had just been on parole the previous July and that I had gone through a lot of trouble trying to survive and that I was brought over to be sentenced in front of Judge Corden. And, you know, I was kind of worried about what George Corden was going to do to me.

[Kevin Greenlee]

From your opinion, Mr. Joplin, did you, even before you were sentenced, did you have a good understanding of what was going to happen to you?

[Anya Cain]

Well, basically, yeah, I had a pretty good idea. I thought I was going to get about three years to seven and a half years.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Okay. And that would be in the state prison system?

[Anya Cain]

Yes.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So you were of the opinion then that you were going back to prison?

[Anya Cain]

Oh, I knew I definitely was.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Did you put it that way to Mr. Freeman, that you were going back to prison?

[Anya Cain]

Oh, yes.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Did he have papers with him and documents on his case?

[Anya Cain]

Yes, a folder full.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Was that part of the beginning of this conversation with him?

[Anya Cain]

Yes.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And how did that. How did it commence, if you can put it in your own words, and tell us how this discussion began?

[Anya Cain]

He was telling me, you know, little things about the case, you know, about some girl named Crystal and taking her to Flint and, you know, just some restaurant and to. They got there and the restaurant was closed, and the girl said he was trying to kidnap her or hurt her or something.

[Kevin Greenlee]

We want to step away from the testimony for a moment to make a couple of observations. For obvious reasons, it makes sense to be quite wary of jailhouse snitches. But many of those concerns are mitigated when the snitches have specific information they couldn't have gotten elsewhere, and we believe that that is the case here.

[Anya Cain]

For instance, there was indeed an incident where Kenzou tried to Take Crystal to a Chinese restaurant in Flint that was closed. And of course, Crystal has said that Kenzu hurt her. The fact that Joplin knew, in particular the detail of the closed Chinese restaurant in Flint lends credence to the idea that Kenzou had a discussion about his case with Joplin. Let's return to the testimony.

[Kevin Greenlee]

During this conversation, as it went on. Can you describe in relative terms his part of the conversation and you're part of the conversation, who was doing most of the talking, if you can characterize it that way, and if you can recognize how it. Just describe in general terms how it progressed.

[Anya Cain]

He was doing the majority of the talking, you know what I mean? He kept on and on and on, you know, from one place to another, point to another point, just kept going.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And what part did you play in the conversation, if you can put it into words?

[Anya Cain]

Mostly listening and agreeing with him.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You know, he was talking with you about details of his case, as I understand it, the case he was putting together. Is that true?

[Anya Cain]

Yes.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And in what way, in what fashion was he describing the way that he had put his case together? How was he calling it? What kind of a case was he calling it?

[Anya Cain]

He said he had an airtight alibi. You know, he. He had witnesses. He even went into detail on what some of this stuff was.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And did he, at any given point in this conversation, talk about the details of the parking lot, the community college, and the shooting itself?

[Anya Cain]

One statement he made about that, and.

[Kevin Greenlee]

What did that deal with that stuck out in your mind?

[Anya Cain]

You want to know what he said?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Yes.

[Anya Cain]

He said that when he shot this guy, he screamed.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Why does that stick out in your mind?

[Anya Cain]

I couldn't believe somebody could scream getting shot, you know, I mean, you know, it scared me.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Let's step back again from the testimony to make a quick point. Kinzu told Joplin that Scott Macklin screamed when Kinzu shot him. You remember, of course, the testimony we've shared from ear witnesses who described indeed, that they heard Macklem scream.

[Anya Cain]

Let's return to the testimony.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Have you ever seen anyone getting shot? Have you ever been involved or close to an act of violence of that kind?

[Anya Cain]

No.

[Kevin Greenlee]

So this was, as you say, it scared you to hear this. Is this correct?

[Anya Cain]

Yes.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Can you describe how he was coming across with this? What did his voice sound like to you? And his appearance? How did he appear as he was describing this thing to you? The shooting and the screams and the various things that surrounded that.

[Anya Cain]

He was talking just like he had been talking. You know, he talked fast and he was smiling.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Did he, to your recollection, did he ever stop smiling as he was talking with you during those couple of hours?

[Anya Cain]

No.

[Kevin Greenlee]

How were you interpreting that smile and the appearance that he was giving you during this conversation?

[Anya Cain]

That he wasn't worried at all and it scared me.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Did he have any comment about the case that the investigators had and giving you an opinion as to what was going to happen in his case?

[Anya Cain]

Yeah. He said it could never be proven and he wasn't worried about it. He had an airtight alibi and he smiled.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Let's step back from the testimony again. Joplin talks about how Kinzu was constantly smiling. You remember that the witnesses who placed Kinzu at the scene of the crime also spoke of his smile. We also have now heard Joplin make a couple of references to Kinzu being happy about his so called airtight alibi. We will talk a bit more about that and why it is not so airtight in one of our next episodes.

[Anya Cain]

Let's return to the testimony.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Did you inquire of him about any. I mean, were there any points where you asked him questions or even on the outside boundaries of what he was talking about? Were there times that you did ask him certain questions?

[Anya Cain]

No. No.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Why was that?

[Anya Cain]

I was scared to ask him any questions.

[Kevin Greenlee]

You said earlier you're just sitting there and listening and agreeing with what he was saying. Can you recollect the kind of words that you were using in phrases with him?

[Anya Cain]

Yeah, I said, sure. You're right, man. They'll never convict you. You know, they don't have anything on you.

[Kevin Greenlee]

That conversation was on the 20th of April. Mr. Joplin, on the 20th of April, did you tell anyone or reveal to anyone what had gone on?

[Anya Cain]

No.

[Kevin Greenlee]

On the 21st, on Tuesday, did you still remember these things and were you still thinking about these things?

[Anya Cain]

Yes.

[Kevin Greenlee]

What did you do on the 22nd of April, on that Wednesday, two days.

[Anya Cain]

Later, I wrote a letter to your office and explained what had happened in that room.

[Kevin Greenlee]

And is that a time when you had already been sentenced for the crime that you pleaded guilty to? Am I right about that?

[Anya Cain]

Yes.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Was there a reason why you didn't write that letter on Monday and did not write it on Tuesday, but then sat down and wrote it on Wednesday?

[Anya Cain]

Yes, there was.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Can you put it into words what your motivation was and your reason for making that decision?

[Anya Cain]

The reason I didn't mail it Monday or Tuesday was because, you know, I've been in prison so long that I've got my attitude is, you know, you don't Tell on anybody, you know. But my pre sentence report, when I got sentenced, my parole officer had made a point of citing this in my presentence report that I had a jail attitude and mentality. And I thought that I had reached the point where I had changed that, and I found out I hadn't.

[Kevin Greenlee]

How did that relate to your motivation for sitting down and writing this letter?

[Anya Cain]

I felt that somewhere in my life I got to change it, and I might as well start right now.

[Kevin Greenlee]

During any of the time that you've talked with anyone from the police, from the investigator side of this, or from the prosecutor's side, has anything of any kind been promised to you as a reward for testifying, as an inducement for testifying in any fashion?

[Anya Cain]

No.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Have you been told that anyone is going to try to get you out of prison early or get you jobs or get you any kind of benefits or rewards later on down the line?

[Anya Cain]

No.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Has anyone threatened you with bad treatment if you did not testify or reveal these things in court for the jury?

[Anya Cain]

No.

[Kevin Greenlee]

In sum, in the total analysis here, from your conversation of those couple of hours with Mr. Kinzu, judging from everything that he said and the way that he spoke with you and said these things and talked about these, were you left with any particular lasting feeling or impression about that man and the conversation that you had?

[Anya Cain]

Yes.

[Kevin Greenlee]

What was that?

[Anya Cain]

He's a frightening person.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Okay. So at this point, you have now heard the heart of the prosecution's case against the man now known as Temujin Kenzu. Let's quickly review it.

[Anya Cain]

Kenzu is a violent rapist who terrorized Crystal and repeatedly threatened the life of Scott Macklem. Some of those threats came when Kenzu was trying to convince her to give him her car keys. Her keys were later stolen, only to be found in Scott's car.

[Kevin Greenlee]

After the murder, Scott knew about the threats and spoke of them to friends, specifically mentioning that they came from Temujin Kinzu. Scott's car was also broken into.

[Anya Cain]

Multiple witnesses placed Kenzou at the crime scene. Other witnesses were not close enough to get a look at the man, but they recognized a specific coat the man wore. A coat of that description was found in Kenzo's vehicle.

[Kevin Greenlee]

After the murders, Kenzu made incriminating statements. In a phone call with Crystal, he made further incriminating statements to Philip Joplin.

[Anya Cain]

After his arrest, Kenzou also went to great lengths to alter his appearance before crucial witness lineups. He managed to get unauthorized access to a razor so he could shave before the witnesses could get a look at him. This meant he would look different than he had on the morning of the murder. It is clearly the action of a guilty man who is trying to manipulate the process to benefit himself. Crystal confirmed he also owned a gun that matched the type used to kill Scott, and Kenzu's gun has never been found.

[Kevin Greenlee]

The jury considered all of this and reached the same verdict we did. Temujin Kenzoo is guilty. He killed Scott Macklem.

[Anya Cain]

We feel it worth noting that one of the first things Kenzu did after being convicted was threaten a witness. Just after the jury announced its decision, Kenzu looked back at the spectators in the courtroom. He spotted Renee Gobine. Kenzu pointed at him and said, I'll get you.

[Kevin Greenlee]

This was typical of Kenzu. Violence and threats was how he dealt.

[Anya Cain]

With the world in years to come. He would try to get all of us, but not through violence. He would instead try to draw people over to his side via lies, preposterous stories and character assassination. We will discuss that in our next episode on Temujin Kenzu.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email [e-mail] if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[Anya Cain]

If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com murdersheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www. Buymeacoffee.com murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.

[Kevin Greenlee]

Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the [e-mail] if you're looking to talk with.

[Anya Cain]

Other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.