Podcast Summary: Murder Sheet Episode - "The Viper Pit Dynasty"
Introduction
In the August 7, 2025 episode of Murder Sheet, hosts journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee engage in an in-depth conversation with Waffles and Coffee, the dynamic duo behind the true crime podcast The Viper Pit. This episode delves into the challenges within the true crime podcasting space, critiques of existing shows, ethical considerations, and the collaborative efforts to foster a more responsible true crime community.
Guest Introduction: The Viper Pit
At [04:00], Áine Cain welcomes Waffles and Coffee to Murder Sheet, highlighting their role as hosts of The Viper Pit, a podcast known for its critical perspective on other true crime shows. Waffles and Coffee introduce themselves, explaining the origins of their podcast:
- Waffles: "First of all, we go by weird breakfast food names... we turned it into this crazy, fun community."
- Coffee: "We were just doing it for our friends. Like, seriously, 40 people..."
Origins and Purpose of The Viper Pit
At [05:20], Waffles and Coffee discuss how their casual group chat evolved into a podcast. They emphasize their mission to critique and call out what they perceive as shortcomings in other true crime podcasts:
- Waffles: "Our passion is calling out other podcasters that really fucking suck. And there's so many of them..."
- Coffee: "They just think everybody's innocent. I don't think they're harmless or nothing."
They recount their initial focus on Bob Ruff's podcast endeavors, which they found problematic, setting the tone for their critical approach.
Critique of Existing True Crime Podcasts
Throughout the discussion, Waffles and Coffee express frustration with mainstream true crime podcasts, particularly those that lack depth or exhibit biases. They provide specific examples:
- Coffee on Touched by Crime: "It's like how they relate to the murderer with minor details... It's pathetic."
- Waffles on True Crime Binge by Bob Ruff: "He just ripped off Serial by calling his podcast Serial Dynasty."
Their critiques center on perceived deficiencies such as surface-level analysis, lack of accountability, and fostering biased narratives.
The Bob Ruff Saga
A significant portion of the conversation focuses on Bob Ruff, a prominent figure in the true crime podcasting community. Waffles and Coffee share their antagonistic experiences:
- Coffee: "Bob Ruff is the host of the podcast Truth and Justice... he ripped off Serial by calling his podcast Serial Dynasty."
- Kevin Greenlee: "A lot of people don't know anything about Temujin Kinzu, and that didn't stop them from reporting on it."
They recount instances where Bob Ruff failed to engage constructively with their efforts to challenge his perspectives, leading to tensions:
- Coffee: "We invited him to our show, but he never responded. Then he started acting like we ghosted him."
- Anya Cain: "It was such a ridiculous situation... we've been doxed before."
Handling Threats and Doxing in the True Crime Space
The hosts candidly discuss the darker side of true crime podcasting, including doxing and threats:
- Waffles: "We have children... if we're being doxed, they have access to our kids."
- Anya Cain: "We've been doxed before... it's unacceptable."
They emphasize the emotional and personal toll these threats take, highlighting the need for supportive communities and secure practices within the podcasting sphere.
Ethical Standards in True Crime Podcasting
Anya and Kevin express concerns over ethical lapses in the genre, advocating for higher standards:
- Anya Cain: "I would like to see newspaper-like standards in true crime. A baseline of behavior we don't tolerate."
- Coffee: "We're using clips and providing full context. It's irresponsible to speculate without evidence."
They argue for responsible reporting, fact-checking, and the importance of not perpetuating false narratives about victims or suspects.
Interaction Between Murder Sheet and The Viper Pit
The episode highlights a symbiotic relationship between Murder Sheet and The Viper Pit, fostering mutual support and collaboration:
- Coffee: "Big shout out to Bear Claw on that... Bob was very mad, but it worked out better for us."
- Anya Cain: "We're friends with them now... It's a breath of fresh air."
They acknowledge how their criticisms inadvertently boosted The Viper Pit's visibility, turning a contentious relationship into a collaborative one.
Promoting a Better True Crime Community
Both podcasts advocate for a more logical, ethical, and supportive true crime community. They discuss strategies to combat misinformation and foster critical thinking among listeners:
- Waffles: "We just want people to think logically. Don't fall into believing everything you hear."
- Anya Cain: "By making fun of the nonsense, we're providing a cathartic space for listeners to express their frustrations."
They stress the importance of creating platforms where nuanced discussions can take place without the perpetuation of harmful myths or biases.
Notable Quotes
- Kevin Greenlee [02:08]: "Warning this episode contains quite a bit of cursing as well as quite a bit of discussion about a variety of crimes."
- Anya Cain [03:21]: "We really hope you enjoy our interview with Coffee and Waffles... The Murder Pit is a lot of fun."
- Coffee [07:50]: "Some of them, it's... they're fun though. Like, I don't even."
- Waffles [10:31]: "Basically, we just want people to think logically. We're not trying to stop anybody from podcasting..."
- Anya Cain [12:22]: "I feel like true crime podcasts are in such a state because... I have a hard time figuring out, why so many podcasts are so mediocre."
Conclusion
The episode concludes with mutual appreciation between Murder Sheet and The Viper Pit, reinforcing their commitment to elevating true crime podcasting standards. They encourage listeners to engage critically with content, support ethical storytelling, and participate in their respective communities for a more informed and responsible approach to true crime.
- Kevin Greenlee [99:12]: "It really was tough for us... you guys are a breath of fresh air."
- Áine Cain [107:29]: "We think it's really important to call out bad behavior in true crime."
The hosts reiterate the importance of integrity, community support, and the continuous pursuit of truth within the complex landscape of true crime storytelling.
Final Thoughts
This episode of Murder Sheet offers listeners a candid exploration of the internal dynamics of true crime podcasting, the ethical challenges faced by creators, and the collaborative efforts required to foster a community grounded in logic and accountability. Through their engaging dialogue with Waffles and Coffee, Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee underscore the importance of critical engagement and ethical responsibility in narrating true crime stories.