Murder Sheet – "True Crime Wave: The Lure of Conspiracy Theories with Sam McGuire"

Date: November 16, 2025
Hosts: Áine Cain (journalist), Kevin Greenlee (attorney)
Guest: Sam McGuire, MA, OCADU (researched the intersection of conspiracy and art)

Episode Overview

This episode takes a thoughtful and probing look at the rise and impact of conspiracy theories within true crime communities and beyond. Featuring guest Sam McGuire, whose unique research background bridges art and conspiratorial belief, the discussion explores why conspiracy thinking flourishes today, its social and psychological roots, and the potential damage it causes. Together, hosts Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee dissect the current landscape—drawing on cases like Delphi and JonBenet Ramsey—while searching for ways to cultivate healthier, more factual conversations in true crime.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

I. The Appeal of Conspiracy Theories in True Crime

• Introduction to the Issue (04:00–06:09)
  • Áine underscores the pervasiveness of conspiratorial thinking in true crime:
    "The cult's influence has reached the highest echelons. The real killers have gotten off scot-free thanks to their friends in the local department..." (04:00)
  • Kevin defines conspiracy theories for this episode as unfounded attempts to explain a situation by positing hidden plots. (04:29)
• Observation: Social media is amplifying long-standing human tendencies to resort to conspiracy, but now more than ever, true crime communities churn out fantastical explanations for real-life tragedies.

II. Sam McGuire’s Academic Perspective

• Background & Research Focus (08:05–11:18)
  • Sam’s research at OCAD University centered on how artists interact with conspiracy, both as parody and as believers.
    "The two curators identified these... Artists who are conspiracy theorists and use their art to prove conspiracy. And artists who use that imagery... to parody, sometimes shine a light on the danger of this manner of thinking." (10:00)
  • His catalyst: witnessing the January 6th Capitol attacks and pondering the nature of belief and disinformation in the modern era.

III. The Mainstreaming and Social Spread of Conspiracy Thinking

• Delphi & Cognitive Echo Chambers (11:18–14:57)

  • Conspiratorial modes of thought have become bipartisan and more extreme, with true crime cases serving as breeding grounds—not just for speculation, but for elaborate, world-spanning plots with little basis in reality.
  • Delphi case is cited as a watershed moment where conspiracy (e.g., "Odinist" cult hypothesis) reached surreal proportions.

• Role of Social Media (14:57–16:28)

  • Rather than an age of transparency, the internet led to isolated echo chambers that reinforce and radicalize beliefs.
  • Sam: "The idea was, the internet will let there be no secrets—now it's echo chambers and bubbles on both sides." (14:57)
  • Social media acts as an accelerant, not necessarily the root cause, but a powerful amplifier.

IV. Political and Social Roots

• Who Believes and Why? (16:30–18:55)
  • Conspiracy theorizing in true crime transcends party lines and unites very different people in shared suspicion.
  • Sam notes: "One of the natures of conspiracy is that nothing is as it seems... holding these beliefs gives you purpose. If you have this understanding... I'm a freedom fighter. I'm the one who knows the truth." (17:12)
  • Kevin & Áine reflect on how conspiracy fills a void left by diminished community engagement or organized religion (21:20–23:18).

V. The Comfort of Simple Answers

• Psychological Appeal (23:18–25:37)
  • Sam applies the "God of the gaps" idea—conspiracies explain life’s uncertainties in digestible, narratively satisfying ways.
  • Áine: "It gives you kind of an enemy to fight against." (24:59)
  • Flat Earth is cited as an "extreme example"—the underlying mindset is identical in less obviously absurd theories.

VI. Family, Personal History, and Real Conspiracies

• Personal Stakes (26:22–28:55)
  • Sam’s family history: grandfather was involved in real WWII espionage; grandmother was a victim of the MKULTRA experiments.
  • Understanding real government secrets prompts frustration over trivial or fantastical ones:
    "...When these things are real, it's extremely harmful. To make things up, I’ve always found quite angering." (27:29)
  • Differentiating between real conspiracies (with evidence) and speculative fantasy is crucial.

VII. How Belief Endures Despite Contradiction

• Goalpost Shifting and Commitment to Belief (32:04–34:44)
  • In conspiracy circles, debunked claims are either ignored or the goalposts are moved; evidence that contradicts belief is disregarded.
  • Sam:
    “They're working backwards from a conclusion... it just keeps getting blown out of proportion because we're working backwards from this conclusion.” (33:15)

VIII. Profiteers vs. Believers & Community Harm

• Varieties of Culpability (35:46–36:46)

  • Distinction between those who are sincerely convinced and those who exploit conspiracy for attention or profit.
  • Some YouTubers and content creators may drift from curiosity into certainty as their followings grow.

• Mental Toll (36:46–39:12)

  • Belief in conspiracies can have serious psychological impacts, increasing anxiety and fear.
  • Áine recounts attending an "Ancient Aliens" event and seeing attendees deeply, distressingly invested in those beliefs.

IX. Conspiracy as Surrogate Religion and Social Epidemics

• Epidemic of Loneliness (39:12–39:48)

  • Modern conspiracies fill community needs once met by churches, charities, or civic life.
  • Áine:
    "There's a real epidemic of loneliness, and that fuels this." (39:48)

• Danger of Scapegoating (40:31–42:44)

  • Using religious minorities as scapegoats (e.g., Odinists, Satanists) is reminiscent of the "Satanic Panic" and often based on profound misunderstanding.

X. Strategies for Countering Conspiratorial Thinking

• Empathy vs. Debunking (42:44–46:06)

  • Sam argues for the power—and the limits—of empathetic engagement:
    "These beliefs are so scary... engaging with empathy is absolutely something I still believe in because people are living in this realm of fear." (42:44)
  • However, for hostile or antagonistic diehards, sometimes refusing to engage is justified; focus instead on gently nudging those who may still have doubts.

• How Change Happens (46:06–49:47)

  • Leaving conspiratorial communities is rare—and takes enormous strength, akin to leaving a cult.
  • Sometimes, the toxicity and chaos of online true crime spaces actually drives people away and causes them to reappraise their beliefs.

• Practical Advice: Meet Them Where They Are (49:47–53:45)

  • Sam’s strategy:
    "Play the thought experiment…validate their fears in a way that's genuine to you. With chemtrails: say, I don't think they're chemicals—it's water vapor—but it is a visual reminder of the amount of pollution." (49:47)
  • Engage those who are early in the rabbit hole rather than entrenched; be fact-based, patient, and listen reciprocally.

XI. Media Literacy and True Crime Responsibility

• Avoiding Uncritical Consumption (54:38–59:32)

  • Áine and Sam discuss the need for true crime consumers and creators to do original research, seek out primary sources, and scrutinize all media—mainstream and new—critically.

• Responsible Reporting & Real Human Stakes (66:43–68:30)

  • Sam:
    "At the end of the day, these are conversations about... young girls who were murdered. There's so much respect and responsibility in talking about these things." (66:43)
  • Áine voices concern that true crime could become "a red flag" if the current trends of toxic, conspiratorial behavior aren’t challenged.

• Microcosms and Macro Impact (71:14–74:51)

  • Delphi is viewed as a microcosm for larger social patterns—disputes over facts devolve rapidly into tribal camps, which reflect the structure of national political divides.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Motivations for Conspiracy Thinking:

  • Sam McGuire (17:12):
    "One of the natures of conspiracy is that nothing is as it seems... holding these beliefs gives you purpose."

• On Flat Earth as Archetype:

  • Sam McGuire (25:15):
    "I've gone past the comedy thing of [Flat Earth] because... it's so hard and fast wrong and there's nothing to debate there."

• On Real-World Harm from Real Conspiracies:

  • Sam McGuire (27:29):
    "When these things are real, it's extremely harmful. To make things up and discount certain truths, I've always found quite angering."

• On the Persistence of Unfounded Belief:

  • Sam McGuire (33:15):
    "They're working backwards from a conclusion... and it just keeps getting blown out of proportion because we're working backwards from this conclusion."

• On How to Reach Someone:

  • Sam McGuire (49:47):
    "Meet people where they are. Validate their fears in a way that's genuine to you... It becomes a willingness to listen."

• On the Moral Weight of True Crime:

  • Sam McGuire (66:43):
    "At the end of the day, these are conversations about... young girls who were murdered. There's so much respect and responsibility in talking about these things."

Important Timestamps

• Intro to Conspiracy Theories and True Crime: 04:00
• Introduction of Sam McGuire: 08:05
• Delphi as a Watershed Moment for True Crime Conspiracy: 11:58
• Social Media’s Role: 14:57
• Political Unification via Conspiracy: 16:30
• Religion, Meaning, and the Internet: 21:20–23:18
• Personal Family History: 26:22
• Goalpost Shifting: 32:04
• Empathic Engagement vs. Debunking: 42:44
• When and How Believers Change Course: 46:06
• Advice for Reaching Out: 49:47
• Media Literacy and Primary Sources: 54:38
• The Moral Weight and Future of True Crime: 66:43

Tone and Style

The conversation is thoughtful, inquisitive, and, at times, both candid and self-reflective. The hosts and guest balance rigorous critique of conspiratorial thinking with empathy for those drawn in. There are moments of levity and personal anecdotes, but the seriousness of the topic—particularly regarding the real human tragedies behind the cases—is never far from mind.

Summary Takeaways

• Conspiracy thinking is booming in true crime, worsened by social media, but rooted in deeper needs for meaning and community.
• The difference between real conspiracies and fantasy is evidence—the former can be proven, the latter persists because it’s emotionally comforting or energizing.
• Empathetic, gentle conversations can sometimes help, but entrenched belief is difficult to shift; prevention and early engagement are most effective.
• Consumers and creators alike have a duty to be responsible, prioritize facts, and never lose sight of the victims at the center of these narratives.
• If unchecked, conspiratorial and toxic trends threaten the very legitimacy of true crime as a genre and as a form of public interest journalism.

For further reading, the hosts mention that a link to Sam McGuire’s research will be in the show notes.