← Murder: True Crime Stories
Murder: True Crime Stories
BONUS: Interview with Great-Granddaughters of Black Dahlia Prime Suspect
00:55:41
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- [00:07]
Carter Roy
This is Crime House. People's lives are like a story. There's a beginning, a middle, and an end. But you don't always know which part you're on. Sometimes the final chapter arrives far too soon, and we don't always get to know the real ending. I'm Carter Roy and this is True Crime Stories, a Crime House original show powered by Pave Studios. Every Tuesday, I'll explore the story of a notorious murder or murders. I'll be bringing awareness to stories that need to be heard, with a focus on those who are impacted. At Crime House, we want to express our gratitude to you, our community, for making this possible. Please support us by rating, reviewing and following Murder True Crime Stories. Wherever you get your pod podcasts, your feedback truly matters. And for ad free and early access to Murder True Crime Stories plus exciting bonus content, subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. This is a very special look into the Black Dahlia murder, which we've been covering throughout the last two episodes of Murder True Crime Stories. Today I am talking with Rasha Picarero and Yvette Gentile. Rasha and Yvette are the hosts of the Root of Evil and Facing Evil podcasts and currently host the podcast series so Supernatural. They are also the great granddaughters of George Hodel, a man some believe could have been responsible for the 1947 death of Elizabeth Short. Rasha and Yvette, thank you so much for joining me today. How are you doing?
- [01:56]
Yvette Gentile
Hey Carter. Thank you for having us. It's a pleasure to be here.
- [02:00]
Rasha Picarero
Yes, thank you, Carter. So nice to finally have this conversation.
- [02:04]
Carter Roy
I know, and it's such an incredible conversation to have. I mean, I just want to say, first of all, that Root of Evil is amazing. Not only, of course, going over the Black Dahlia murder and your family, but weaving those tales together, I just think is such a special way of telling a story and shows that true crime isn't just some sort of sensationalistic genre, is really a heartfelt thing for all those involved. So in today's special episode, we'll dive into Rasha and Yvette's family secrets, the trauma they've endured and the shocking revelations unearthed by their uncle, Steve Hodel, who was an LAPD homicide detective for a long time. This is so much more than just a cold case. It's a story of family darkness and the search. So stay tuned. You won't want to miss this incredible conversation. Hey everyone, it's Carter. I have a favor to ask you. If you are enjoying Murder True Crime stories I would be honored if you took a moment to rate and review us on Apple and Spotify. Your valuable feedback helps us improve and expand our reach so other true crime fans can find us too. 2. Your support means Everything as we gather.
- [03:24]
Rasha Picarero
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- [04:34]
Yvette Gentile
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- [04:40]
Rasha Picarero
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- [04:42]
Yvette Gentile
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- [05:04]
Carter Roy
All right, Rasha and Yvette, I know we're about to dive into some heavy stuff, but before we do that, tell me, is there anything about you that most people wouldn't expect or might be surprised to learn? I mean, they might associate you with Root of Evil or the evil podcast world. So what about you? Might they not know?
- [05:23]
Rasha Picarero
It's so funny that you say that, Carter. We when they decided to name the podcast Root of Evil, we're like, we're not the root of evil. What are you talking about? But we understood where that was coming from because even though we come from evil, our mother was this bright shining light. So we've always felt that, right? But we are going to get into really heavy conversation today. So let's start off with something fun and silly. Most people don't know that in 2006 I was on the reality TV show the Biggest Loser. So a lot of people don't know that unless you Google me. And if you Google me, don't believe tmz. I didn't leave my ex husband for my wife. That's not how I came out.
- [06:07]
Carter Roy
Okay, yes.
- [06:11]
Rasha Picarero
So that's my fun anecdote for, you know, something that people might not know about me. How about you, Yvette?
- [06:17]
Yvette Gentile
So for me, a lot of people don't know this about me. I mean, people know that I. I model, I run, I do yoga, I do a bunch of different things. But one thing they do not know is my husband is a cobbler. A very famous cobbler, a Chabatino in San Francisco. So a craftsman. So when 2020, you know, hit us all unexpectedly, I started working with him and I started painting shoes and bags and it was kind of like I just picked it up without even knowing. And funny fact is, my dad is an auto body painter. He's been doing it his whole life. So I feel like I kind of got that trait, you know, And I never worked with my father when I was younger, so I can honestly say that I am a craftswoman.
- [07:05]
Carter Roy
Well, and of course, you have a lot more going on than being a cobbler or making it out of the Biggest Loser. You also have an amazing new podcast right now called so Supernatural. So do you want to tell us a little about that?
- [07:18]
Yvette Gentile
Yes.
- [07:19]
Rasha Picarero
So Supernatural came to us because we were actually pitching a show to Audio Chuck. We wanted to do like a new talk show because believe it or not, we're not true crime. We're normally like sunshine and rainbows and all these things. And Brittany Bigelow at Audio Chuck and Max Cutler at Pave Studios saw something really special in us. And after we had our meeting with Audio Chuck, Britney asked our agent, hey, what do the girls think about supernatural things? And it was like a light bulb that went off. And we're like, we love Supernatural, right, Yvette?
- [07:54]
Yvette Gentile
Yeah, it was instantaneous that we were like, oh, my God, this is it. And as soon as she said that, I told Brittany, I said, the night before, I had this dream, like I had this vision of mom coming to us and saying, this is it, this is it. Because our mother on her journey, like a finding her biological family, she would always get visions or visited by angels and all these mysterious and mystical things would show up in her life. So we were raised in that. We were raised in the mystical and the psychics in faith as well. So I'm like. I completely got goosebumps from head to toe when they said supernatural. We were like, yes, we are in. We are supernatural. That's in our DNA also.
- [08:42]
Rasha Picarero
And when we found out that Ashley Flowers was going to be hosting with us.
- [08:45]
Yvette Gentile
Hello.
- [08:45]
Rasha Picarero
We have admired her for years and years. We were even nominated, her and Brit for Crime junkie in the 2020 iHeartRadio podcast awards for Best True Crime Podcast of the Year. We both lost. Yeah. But, you know, we've always admired Ashley because she is a powerhouse of a human being.
- [09:07]
Yvette Gentile
Yeah. An incredible, incredible storyteller. Like, we are just beyond honored to be on this team and at the same time, geeking out every day that we get to do something that we truly, truly love completely.
- [09:21]
Carter Roy
I mean, that is. Yeah, it's such an amazing marriage when you get to be with people that you admire that much, doing work that you also love to do. Well, let's turn to the case that changed everything and has brought you here to today in a lot of ways, the murder of Elizabeth Short, known as the Black Dahlia. So how much did you know about this case? You know, when you're growing up, it's obviously one of the most famous unsolved murders in American history. So a lot of people know about it. Was it something you knew before? And then when did you first find out that your family might be connected to it?
- [09:55]
Yvette Gentile
For me, I'm the oldest daughter, so I think about this often, and I think it was probably when I was in my early teens that I fully started to grasp, you know, what our great grandfather had done. We had always heard that he was a very powerful, very influential man who did some very sinister things. And I had, remember. I remember my mom and Tamar, you know, always having these conversations. Tamar, my grandmother, my mom's biological mother. But again, they weren't, you know, the kids weren't sitting around hearing every single detail. So it wasn't until in my teens that I started to learn more and understand the depth of, you know, what was part of our DNA. And it wasn't really until, I have to say, 2003, you know, when our great uncle Steve Hodel wrote the book the Black Dahlia Avenger, that I thought the whole world now knows our history. You know, it's a very unsettling feeling. I can't actually put it into words, but it does not feel good.
- [11:03]
Rasha Picarero
Let's Just say that for me. I'm the baby. It's just Yvette and I, and we're 11 years apart. I don't remember a time that I didn't know about the unfortunate murder of Elizabeth Short and the Black Dahlia and George's connection to it. Because Tamar and our mom always, you know, spoke all the time. They spoke on the phone multiple times a day, even though we lived within a few miles of each other in Honolulu, Hawaii. But I always remember knowing that I came from this evil. And not only was he accused of killing Elizabeth Short, he was also accused of doing horrific things to our grandmother, Tamar, and, you know, to other people. I can't remember if it was dateline or 48 hours that our uncle's, you know, great Uncle Steve was on. And I remember watching it with our mom and turning to her because our mom's name was Fonda Hodel. And I was named born Rasha Hodel, because my parents weren't married when I was born, but my dad had my name changed to his last name when I was a little bit older, like, 11. I remember turning to my mom and being like, I am so happy my last name isn't Hodel anymore. And she, like, gave me this stink eye, like, Rasha, I'm still named Fauna Hodel. I'm still associated with that last name. And I'm like, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean it like that. I just. Wow. Because it's so much to know whether he truly was responsible for the murder of Elizabeth Short or not. He was responsible for heinous things in our family. That is 100% for certain. So, you know, regardless of whether he was ever tried in a court, which he wasn't, he was accused, but he never served a day in jail or in prison or anything like that. That stain is still with the Hodel name. And both Yvette and I come from that family. So it is something that is. We always try to balance the darkness with light.
- [13:02]
Yvette Gentile
And I have to piggyback off of that a little bit, too, because, you know, mom had the last name Hodel. You know, she was told never to change her name because supposedly her family was very wealthy. That was what her adopted parents said. But even though mom had the name Hodele, she was the light. Like, she didn't fall into the darkness of the George Hodel mysteries and all the things legacy. Like, she was her own entity of light. And she took that name. She took Fauna Hodel, and she trailblazed it to a whole nother level of positivity and kindness. And that's difficult, you know, considering everything that she had been through. So that just shows who she was as a human being, you know, in this world.
- [13:52]
Carter Roy
Yeah. And I think we'll. And hope we'll talk about that more later today too, in terms of intergenerational trauma and those things that we're still learning so much about how they happen. And you know, the Black Dahlia, as I said before, murder is one of the most famous in American history. It's obviously been turned into movies and books and so much is known about it. Why that one captured the public's mind so much and became this cultural touchstone. And do you think that obviously affects the perception of the case or even how you felt about the case over the years?
- [14:24]
Yvette Gentile
Yeah, I mean, I think that there's so many different reasons why it captured America the way that it did for me. It's like when I think about it, you think of Elizabeth Short as this beautiful young, you know, 22 year old who had just come to La La Land, as I like to say, you know, to become a star or an actress or whatever, whatever she chose to do. And then for this horrific, horrific crime assault to happen to her. And the way that it was publicized right, in LA at that time, the way that it was graphically photographed and shown on the newspapers, it literally became a movie just in the moment that they showed those photographs. And I think that's what's created this never ending genre of the Black Dahlia. Right. Because it literally started like a movie, but it was real life. And that's what's so hard for me because we all are not thinking that this is a 22 year old girl, she had her whole life ahead of her. And to be tragically, horribly taken from this world like that. And then to all the way until now, right, we're in 2024, it's still the same frenzy around it. And I think people get lost in that and in the glamour, which it's not glamorous at all. So there's so much to be said about Elizabeth Short and the timeframe that it happened in and all the corruption that was happening in LA at the time. I mean, we could talk about this for days, you know.
- [16:07]
Carter Roy
Yeah. I'm so thankful in some ways when you talk about your mother and that history because I think it's just so important. People are constantly like, yeah, how do we both acknowledge the horror of a murder and something like the Black Dahlia, of course Grabs the imagination because of just how horrific and the staging of the body, et cetera. And yet how do we pull her story out of that and pulling her story out and humanizing her? We set the pattern for how we all do that over time to, like, keep coming back to the light of it and not just sucked into the dark.
- [16:36]
Rasha Picarero
I love that you say that, Carter, because we always say that. We're like, our mom was the light in the darkness, and that's her legacy, because she was a legacy of kindness and light. So we always want to talk about that. And Elizabeth had her own light. You know, she was so young, and it was just so tragic what happened to her. And you're right. She was completely sensationalized and still is to this day. And she was a real person. A lot of people forget that. They say, oh, the Black Dahlia. And we're like, elizabeth Short.
- [17:06]
Yvette Gentile
Elizabeth Short. Elizabeth Short. Yeah. And our mother was huge on that. She always said, no, say her name. Say her name. Her name is Elizabeth Short.
- [17:16]
Carter Roy
We want to keep making sure we remember the human.
- [17:19]
Rasha Picarero
Exactly.
- [17:20]
Carter Roy
Heinodel, when you became aware, as you said, you'd kind of always known there was something about your great grandfather. I confess, and probably other people are curious what it's like just at a personal level, to try to process that kind of connection. You know, where do you put that for me?
- [17:37]
Rasha Picarero
I remember. So in 2003, when our great Uncle Steve's book came out, I was in college, and I remember writing a piece. I was in a journalism class, and I was writing a piece about basically how I'm so ashamed that George Hodel's blood runs through my veins. And I remember saying all these things as to why I knew I was going to be the light instead of the darkness. And that was because of our mom, Fauna Hodel, and because of my sister Yvette. You know, I always knew that that darkness didn't mean we were dark. It didn't mean that we were any part of that. And our mom kept us away from him on purpose. And, you know, because he lived until 1999.
- [18:24]
Yvette Gentile
Yeah.
- [18:24]
Rasha Picarero
And so, you know, he was still a presence in this world when we were growing up and doing all these things. But for me, I just always was like, nope, I'm not a part of that. And that's why it's so interesting that Yvette and I have fallen into this, you know, beautiful world of podcasting because we can use our voice for good now. You know, we did that with Facing Evil. We were telling other stories and we always talked about the light. And there's a word in Hawaiian, because we were raised there. Imua means to move onward and upward. And at the end of every Facing Evil episode, no matter what victim or crime we were talking about, we always had to have that imua. How do you move onward and upward from this? And you can. You can't live in that darkness. You have to always look for the.
- [19:16]
Yvette Gentile
Light or you have to find the helpers to help you get to the light, you know? Yeah. And surround yourself with those type of people. Everything that Rasha said is so true. For me, when I totally, really, like, absorbed, it was actually when Root of Evil came out. And I'm just going to go back a little bit, but I was always a very strong, very grounded. I'm a Leo. But my mom raised two very strong women. You know, she was a single mom. She held it down, and she really instilled that strength and that light and always let us know that this may be in our bloodline, but that does not define who you are and what you stand for in this world. So we always had that right. But when Root of Evil came out and obviously losing our mother and that was life changing for both of us, was the first time that it felt so, so real. You know, as Rasha said, they named it Root of Evil. And we were like, but no, we're not the root of evil. Fauna Hodel was the brightest light on the planet. So when Root of Evil came out and it was such a huge success, and, you know, Root of Evil was a story of a family, family secrets, trauma. It was. It's a three dimensional story that touched everybody in such a different way. But that was the first time that it was like, this is a lot for me. This is. Okay, yes. Steve's book came out in 2003, but now podcasting is this huge entity, and people are listening to, you know, your family secrets, like, up close and personal. It was a lot. It was a lot to intake, and it was a lot to take on because our mother wasn't with us, you know, and she was always and still is to this day, but she is the core of our strength. But then, you know, again, I had to find my footing. It took me a while, and I had to say, you know, remember who you are. Remember who you are. You are Fana Hodel's daughter.
- [21:37]
Rasha Picarero
Fana Hodel's daughter.
- [21:39]
Yvette Gentile
Remember who you are. And that carried us through.
- [21:43]
Rasha Picarero
That's the beauty of storytelling. Right. When we share stories, you don't feel so alone. Like, not everyone's gonna have skeletons in their closet like our family does.
- [21:54]
Yvette Gentile
But.
- [21:54]
Rasha Picarero
But like you said, if they feel that we can get through it and rise above and move onward and upward, they can, too.
- [22:01]
Yvette Gentile
Yeah. Yeah. And that was the beauty of our mother. Because even though she had this crazy story from beginning, middle and end, she was always wanting to listen to your story. And that was the beauty. Because you know what? That is what connects us all. I always like to say there's, you know, we have 2 to 6 degrees of separation between all of us, and there is a connection that we all share if we truly just listen to one another.
- [22:32]
Carter Roy
I might shift a little now and sort of drill into a little bit of what we're talking about in terms of, like, how the story unfolds in your family. And if we go to your great uncle Steve Hodel, who, again, if listeners don't know, was a longtime LAPD homicide detective, which I think is. He is such a diligent professional that it's not just that he's the son of George Hodel, who sort of is wandering into this. This is like. Sort of feels like the guy who's best suited to pursue the investigation anyway. And then it sort of happens that that congruence occurs. I think we've kind of touched on it some, but how does that start to influence how your internal story about it changes and what else changes as you watch his journey?
- [23:11]
Yvette Gentile
For me, I've met Steve a couple times, you know, our great Uncle Steve, a couple times in my life. And he has always been dedicated to finding the truth, telling the truth about his father, you know, George Hodel. And that happened, like you said earlier in 1999, you know, when his father passed away and he started to go through some of his things. When we did Root of Evil, and we actually went on tour and we did the Today show, we did Dr. Oz, we did Dr. Phil. To actually be, you know, in the room with Steve and hear him talk about all of this was, like, a whole nother level. And I have to give him his respect because he was an LA homicide detective for 24 years, so he knows what he's talking about. So to hear him elaborate on all of the details and the evidence just gave me confirmation that what I already believe to be true, like, even more so. His father definitely killed. You know what I mean? Yeah, I know. Yeah. It's always so hard to have it come out of my mouth, but, yes.
- [24:32]
Rasha Picarero
Yeah. I mean, again, mad respect for our Uncle Steve. I didn't meet him until five minutes before we went on the Dr. Phil Show. And you have to remember, I mean, I was born and raised in Honolulu, and he was in la. And one thing I will say, I was always sad that our mom and our great Uncle Steve never really got to work together because they were all, you know, they were both on this journey of finding out the truth. And our mom had a relationship with him and, you know, met him several times, but they never really melded together.
- [25:08]
Yvette Gentile
Yeah, they never really collaborated together.
- [25:10]
Rasha Picarero
Collaborated. And it felt good to be with him on, you know, all those shows and to hear his side of the story. And, you know, I went through my own healing journey, going through all of that, because I had a very volatile relationship with our biological grandmother, Tamar. And I realized, you know, I said some things publicly that I probably. Probably shouldn't have, and I realized I'm like, you know, there's other people involved in this story. I don't need to perpetuate, you know, the things that I went through, especially because Tamar had passed away a couple years before our mom had passed away. So for me, it was more about just healing and listening. That's something that my sister Yvette teaches me daily. Listen more and talk less, which is hard to say to a podcast host, but.
- [26:00]
Carter Roy
Amen.
- [26:01]
Rasha Picarero
Yes, amen to that. But I. I listened to Steve, and he did the work. He did the research. You know, I think he originally, actually, I know originally he set out to disprove that his father, George, killed Elizabeth Short. And on his journey, you know, he found out that he could have been responsible for multiple other murders. And that is heartbreaking. And part of that, you know, listening to him and reading his books and going on this journey through root of evil and everything, you have to realize that you have to break that generational trauma. You have to know that you are not that evil that you come from, and you can always break it. And our. Our mother broke it. Our mother did that. And, you know, unfortunately, Tamara wasn't able to, but towards the end, she kind of did. She. You know, she had good relationships with. With her family. And I just want people out there to know that no matter what the darkness is that lies in your past, you can always come out above and see the light. Always.
- [27:10]
Carter Roy
I mean, it's crazy to think that whatever we might feel about someone being capable of murder, that it could get worse because you're sort of. Well, that's. There is no such thing worse. And then it's like, well, crazy enough there is, like, there's something more. And then somehow that becomes another layer to grapple with. And the Sodin house where George lived and some of these murders probably took place. And learning that he may have been a serial killer, what was that like? As far as further layers to go through?
- [27:42]
Yvette Gentile
We call it the Franklin house. But that house, whew. The first time mom and I went there, this was. I'm terrible with numbers, but the first time that mom and I went there, she didn't know who lived there. She just knocked on the door and she said, you know, hi, I am the granddaughter of George Hodele. And of course they knew who George Hodel was because he was, I believe he was, the second owner of that house. So she let us in and we sat down, had a conversation, and it was this incredible, you know, Frank Lloyd Wright home. She took us out at the time. There was a pool there in the center, and all the doors opened out to the pool. And, you know, she brought us some iced tea and we sat there and talked. And she started telling us all these stories about these different encounters, you know, with ghosts that her and her family had gone through. And it was lovely, it was nice, you know, but there was this. There's this energy in that house. The second time that I went there, I was with. I think I was with my uncle Peace and our uncle Kelly and my mom again. And they took us into the basement. And I remember as soon as we went down the stairs, my heart just started palpitating. I felt like I was. I knew I was having an anxiety attack. And my mom all of a sudden started praying. Like, I don't even know what she was saying, but she started praying. The energy that was in that basement was like none other I've experienced in my life. Like, you know, when you walk into a place and something God awful has happened there, you can just. If you're an intuitive and sensitive person such as myself, you feel that. And I felt that. And we. We got up out of there and I was like, I never want to come back to the south, kid.
- [29:45]
Rasha Picarero
But then I made her come back.
- [29:46]
Yvette Gentile
Even though we did go back again. But it's an eerie, eerie feeling. And, you know, I believe that that is absolutely where Elizabeth Short or someone else, I don't know, but God awful things happened down there.
- [30:06]
Rasha Picarero
And in fact, not a lot of people know this, but the year before, our mom was diagnosed with breast cancer, 2015, she was on the TV show Ghost Adventures, and she went to the home. And so, I mean, she's Again, been there multiple times. She took me separately from Yvette and then Yvette and I. It ended up on the cutting room floor of root of Evil. But we recorded an episode inside, you know, the Franklin Stoughton house.
- [30:34]
Yvette Gentile
And the same thing happened to me again in the basement.
- [30:37]
Rasha Picarero
She had a full blown panic attack in the basement and I had to like hold onto her. And you feel it. It's almost like you feel something on your chest. In Hawaii, we talk about like a sitting ghost, like sitting on your chest. That's what I felt as soon as I walked into the property. And it's. It's scary. It's very scary.
- [30:58]
Carter Roy
So the Soden House, originally named because that's what they first called it, is on Franklin street, so became known as the Franklin House and was designed by Frank Lloyd Wright's son. So it has some infamy in the architecture world as well. And it is fascinating to hear about how spaces like that and the events in them can shape the energy. I've been to a couple places, not inside, but outside right after some horrible things. And it must be an overwhelming experience when you're in the middle of it, like in the basement like that.
- [31:29]
Yvette Gentile
Yeah, it's something that you don't want to feel, let's just put it that way.
- [31:36]
Carter Roy
I thought one of the pieces of evidence that for me was haunting. I mean, it just. It gives me goosebumps when I talk about it. That the police were making these recordings and then potentially not taking action is real hard to swallow. But the LAPD did get into Franklin House and plant some bugs to listen to George Hodele because he was a suspect and have these recordings which, and quite possibly in this very basement and certainly other parts of the house as well, may have recorded murders or talking about murders, as we know, the tapes, not so much lost is probably my guess. It would seem as destroyed or tried to take out of context. And thankfully someone was wise enough to take the transcripts and hide them away from any kind of corruption.
- [32:16]
Rasha Picarero
The transcripts still exist.
- [32:17]
Carter Roy
The transcripts. So we have the recordings essentially. And what was it like for you to. To experience those recordings?
- [32:24]
Yvette Gentile
So I have an interesting story. My mom was working at Thomas Kinkade Gallery in Northridge. Thomas Kinkade in Northridge. And my mom always had these. Like I said, my mom always had these supernatural experiences throughout her lifetime. And she was working in the gallery and this man and this woman came in, they started chatting. My mom was an incredible salesperson. She sold them smart. But in the midst of course she told her story. And then he started to tell his. His name was Walter Morgan, and he was one of the officers that put the bug in the Franklin house. Can you imagine? My mom was just like, like, what? What, what? So of course my mom called Steve and she let Steve know, and that's how this all transpired. But that was, again, one of those so supernatural moments that of all places that this man, you know, who by now he must have been like, in his 80s, walked into Thomas Kinkade Gallery and told this story to my mother about her grandfather. I mean, is that craziness or is that fate?
- [33:47]
Carter Roy
That is craziness. I mean, you think of this sort of like, well, a thousand monkeys are typing forever. Eventually, you know, they'll type the canon or whatever. And yet it's like, yeah, but would he bring up that story in the Kinkade Gallery at that date? Like, I don't know. Maybe not even all the infinite probabilities could account for that.
- [34:04]
Rasha Picarero
He recognized her last name.
- [34:06]
Yvette Gentile
Yes.
- [34:07]
Rasha Picarero
So Anne, because she was telling her story, he was like, hodel. It's like, oh, I got a story for you.
- [34:13]
Yvette Gentile
Yeah.
- [34:14]
Carter Roy
Amazing. The confluence of that is just astounding. I mean, just that he'd be there that day, that they'd meet, that they would get enough story to get a name out. And then, of course, he remembers that. But to know that that in so many ways would trigger so much. Because, of course, Steve then being like, oh, more to look at. And then as a detective and getting these recordings and seeing more really opens the door to be like, okay, I think we can kind of wash away.
- [34:38]
Yvette Gentile
The doubt totally for us as well. You know, he's. He is the prime suspect.
- [34:44]
Carter Roy
Yes. Well, with that, let's take a little break. And then after, we're gonna dive deeper into more mysteries about the Hodel family and a little more about who George Hodel really was. So stay tuned for more after this brief pause.
- [35:05]
Yvette Gentile
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- [35:22]
Carter Roy
How did you.
- [35:23]
Yvette Gentile
And spontaneously written songs of joy.
- [35:26]
Carter Roy
I am so happy. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [35:29]
Yvette Gentile
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- [35:58]
Carter Roy
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- [36:51]
Yvette Gentile
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- [37:19]
Carter Roy
Edu welcome back, everyone. I'm here with Rasha Picarero and Yvette Gentile discussing how their great grandfather George Hodel might have been responsible for the infamous Black Dahlia murder in 1947. So if we go back to your uncle Steve Hodel, he suggested that George was responsible for a number of unsolved murders beyond Elizabeth Short, the Black Dahlia. What's your opinion on this broader theory that George Hodele could have been a serial killer?
- [37:50]
Rasha Picarero
I definitely think he could have been a serial killer. I don't know if I believe he was the Zodiac killer or other things that our great Uncle Steve has said. And it's no disrespect to Steve, it's just I don't want to believe that, but I definitely think he was capable of murdering multiple people, especially with the things that he did to Tamar. And I just really think he was capable of it. And his secretary, I feel that in my gut. And his secretary, Ruth Spalding for sure. So there's definitely more than one.
- [38:25]
Yvette Gentile
I agree with what Rasha said. Like, I feel like the Zodiac is a little bit far fetched, you know, and again, going back to we're not really true crime people, so it's not like we spend A whole lot of time, or have throughout our lives, you know, researching all these other cases. But definitely Elizabeth Short, you know, as well as Ruth Spalding and all, obviously, the horrendous things that he did, you know, to his child, that in itself is just, you know, an evil human being.
- [38:57]
Carter Roy
He fled the US not long after the Black Dahlia case was starting to get media attention. I mean, do you think that's part of why he left the country was to try to get away from scrutiny and suspicion about connection to the murder?
- [39:10]
Yvette Gentile
I mean, I think that's kind of obvious. I think for most of us, like when you, you know, you read all the transcripts, you know, when he says what he says on the tape, and now all of a sudden he's like, you know, going to the Philippines. He's getting out of the country. So it. It absolutely makes sense. And back then, you know, we talk about LA like we have earlier. You know, LA was very corrupt. George was a very influential person, you know, in Los Angeles, and he had. He had a lot of people, I'm sure that, you know, were in his pockets that would take care of this and that and knew that it was time for him to get out of town, especially with him being the prime suspect.
- [39:49]
Rasha Picarero
And I do have to say, too, when he went to the Philippines, he ended up starting a whole new family there. And we have special relationships with our family from the Philippines. And just to be devil's advocate, a lot of them don't believe that he was a murderer of any kind. So it's very, very nuanced, and I guess all families are right. But it's just so interesting, like, if he could have moved to the Philippines and then never done an evil thing again. I don't know.
- [40:18]
Yvette Gentile
I mean, and we have to re. We have to remember that, you know, George was brilliant as well. Like, he had an IQ like Einstein. He was a genius. You know, so. And he had that personality, that Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde type of personality. So, yeah, he could turn it off and turn it on, you know, when he chose.
- [40:39]
Carter Roy
Do you think there's any chance that law enforcement would ever be able to publicly sort of definitively hold him responsible, or do you feel like that ship has sort of sailed?
- [40:49]
Rasha Picarero
Well, I can tell you what the LAPD said when we did the Today show. They. They said that it is still an open investigation. And if I remember correctly, correct me if I'm wrong, Yvette, they didn't say anything about George, right?
- [41:04]
Yvette Gentile
No. No. I mean, if anyone is going to prove it, it's gonna be Steve, you know, and Steve does say that. Like, he has said. Steve has said that, you know, he does have some type of DNA on some. He has George's DNA or letter or something. I don't know. So I think he's the one who's going to diligently stay with this for the rest of his life until, you know, something happens.
- [41:32]
Carter Roy
We would hope, both for his sake and all of our sakes. I'm like, yeah, I'm certainly rooting for the possibility that that DNA one day might lead to a payoff, because as we're talking about story and healing, it's like, oh, that might be a chapter yet to be written. And you don't know what kind of healing and transformation can take place, even though it's so long ago in some ways, because it ripples through our histories, as, you know, from the personal side of the family, like, oh, that can really make a difference sometimes. So I'm certainly hoping one day that it comes too.
- [42:04]
Rasha Picarero
Well, and, you know, it's funny that you say that, Carter. One of the episodes that we did for Root of Evil that also made it on the cutting room floor, we, Yvette and I, met with one of the sisters at the place where our mom was born. It was an unwed mother's home. And I remember her telling us, you know, you may not get the answers, and you have to basically be okay with that.
- [42:24]
Yvette Gentile
Be okay with that.
- [42:25]
Rasha Picarero
Yeah. And it's like, we still have to heal. We still have to become whole again. I think Yvette and I have made peace with the fact that we may never find out the truth because everyone who was involved is no longer with us.
- [42:38]
Yvette Gentile
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I say that, you know, and when I say that about Steve, like, I wish that for him, too. Yes. He's. I'm sure he's gonna continue his journey of trying to prove, you know, or solve the case. But at the same time, I hope that he takes care of his own spirit, you know, and heals himself as well, because at the end of the day, that's the most important thing for all of us.
- [43:01]
Carter Roy
Yeah. At the same time, I'm such a lover of dogged journalists and investigators and stuff. And so I find myself just like, come on, let's get there. Give that. Give that man and what he deserves as far as the knowledge goes.
- [43:17]
Yvette Gentile
Yeah. Yeah.
- [43:18]
Carter Roy
All right, well, up next, we'll get Rash and Yvette's takes on where things go from here and the legacy of their family's connection to the crime. Stay tuned after this short break. Way to eat a tea. You're listening to an app for PC Game Pass. Want new games on day one? Like Indiana Jones and the Great Circle? How about living out your Sims life with EA Play? We Talking high quality PC games all for one low monthly price? We got you. Learn more at Xbox.com PCGame Pass or click the banner Indiana Jones and the Great Circle. Available December 9, 2024. Game catalog varies by region and over time. Okay, that's the ad. You can go back to doing whatever you were doing.
- [44:04]
Yvette Gentile
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- [44:24]
Carter Roy
Welcome back. Let's dive into Rasha Picarero and Yvette Gentile's stark family history, but I really want to hear about the effect it's had on your family overall. With the release of your podcast, Root of Evil, the world has learned about your family's connection to one of the most famous unsolved so how has sharing your family story on such a public platform changed the way you view the past? And I know we've talked about this some what else there is about being in the position not just of someone who's experienced it, but then shared it so publicly, what that's like.
- [44:59]
Rasha Picarero
For me, I think that it's been a release. You know, it's something that's always followed us from the time I was a little girl just because I always knew. And when the world found out, I was like, okay, it's all out there. It's all out there and all we can do, especially having, you know, just lost our mom. When Root of Evil came out, Yvette and I choose every day to follow the light. We choose every day to lead with kindness and aloha. And I'm not perfect by any means, but I do my best to be her legacy. And so that's why we do the work that we do, why we went on to do facing evil and so supernatural so that we can have a voice for the voiceless and do good in the world. So for me, it, it's been very healing and very beautiful.
- [45:54]
Yvette Gentile
And for me, you know, I talked about Root of Evil in the beginning of how it made me feel. But there was also the light, which was that cathartic feeling of when the family came together. And, you know, we had this conversation, which was really beautiful, and I hope that helped other families speak to one another, because everybody has, you know, a different view or a different story. But if you can all get into one room or get on a phone or, you know, just listen. Not judge, right, but just listen to what each other has to say, whether you believe it or not. But just giving each other the ability to share what they feel is so powerful and so healing in itself. And my mom raised us to be strong women and to carry on her legacy because she came from secrets and lies and trauma. But even though she came from all that, I like to say she was truly rooted in love. And she perpetuated that love to every single person that she encountered, whether it be on a plane, in a car, like in a gallery, like that. Kindness that she illuminated continued to gravitate to her so that darkness never stayed with her. And that is how we were raised, and that is how we are able to carry on to tell stories, you know, to be blessed to, like Rasha said, to have this platform to share stories so people don't feel alone, you know, and it's okay that if you don't want to tell your story, that's okay, too. But if you do, you know, that it's okay, you can share it. Because there's always someone who has had a similar experience. And if you can be a light in the darkness for someone else, I mean, what better feeling in the world is that?
- [48:01]
Carter Roy
Yeah, there is none. That is amazing and truly incredible that her story in the soil of such darkness, that her choosing, creating, becoming a source of light is such an incredible story. So along those lines, I mean, that's obviously an incredible lesson for all of us. Are there other lessons or values that you want to pass on to future generations, either of your family or just for all of us? Please. Considering all that you've learned from this.
- [48:29]
Yvette Gentile
I think the most important thing, and I think we've said it all through this podcast, is always choosing kindness. Kindness goes a long way in this world, and that was the beauty of mom and what she gave to us and what she gave to everybody that she encountered. And paying that forward is so important, and especially in everything that we have gone through, what we're going through in the world and finding, you know, that community. Right. Because community will always hold you up and help you out and raise you up, lift you up. I should say so, yeah. Kindness, joy, finding the light.
- [49:13]
Rasha Picarero
Of course I agree with everything my sister said, as I always do, but I am a mom. You know, I have a 13 year old daughter, Leilani, and she was a part of all of this. I accidentally played the trailer for Root of Evil for her when she was six and I should have been played it for her, but I was excited. I'm like, oh. And I didn't realize how heavy it was going to be. So she knows all about our family, but something I always perpetuate with her and, you know, with everyone I meet and come into contact with. I always, always, always want to lead with the light and with kindness and especially with everything that's going on in our world right now, with different, you know, opposing political views and everything. If each of us led with kindness and met each other in the middle, I think it'd be a much happier world. And our mom would always say, you know, she'd want the whole world to live happily ever after and have world peace. I mean, she was literally a walking billboard for it. But I truly think that there is a common ground. And she would also say there's so much more good than there is evil in the world. And from everything she came from and what we've come from, I just want to perpetuate love and light and aloha and just to know that you can overcome that darkness. And it doesn't mean that there aren't days that we need to be held up. I mean, I just spent the last six months going through breast cancer myself, and I had to rely on my wife and my sister and my community. And I felt very close to mom during that time because, you know, she died from the same disease. And I know that I'm here because of all of that light that everyone held me up. And I just want to hold up. I want to hold up others as much as I possibly can so that they don't feel so alone.
- [51:16]
Yvette Gentile
And it takes a village, you know, Carter, it takes a village. And our mother was always surrounded with incredible people in her lives. You know, she always had a village. And for those that are listening, it's like, find your village, find your people, find your helpers. People that will lift you up.
- [51:40]
Carter Roy
Yeah. For those fans of both so supernatural and Root of evil and murder, true crime stories, and if you haven't listened to Root of Evil, I really, I really recommend it. That this is also part of listening to stories about true crime into podcasts that have some darkness is that it's not meant just to weigh you down or scare you that. But it can also be a reminder that amidst all these pillars of darkness, you get to keep navigating toward the light. So I'm really so thankful to both you for sharing your time and your story today and these incredible lessons that we can all take and apply to our life. So thank you so much for being here.
- [52:21]
Rasha Picarero
Thank you, Carter.
- [52:23]
Yvette Gentile
Mahalo, Carter. Thank you. Thank you for having us.
- [52:30]
Carter Roy
Thank you so much for listening. I'm Carter Roy and this is Murder True Crime Stories. Come back next week for another episode. True Crime Stories is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on social media at crimehouse, on Instagram and T TikTok. And don't forget to rate, review and follow Murder True Crime Stories wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference. We'll be back next Tuesday. True Crime Stories, a Crime House original, is executive produced by Max Cutler. This episode of Murder True Crime Stories was sound design by Ron Shapiro, produced by Kristen Acevedo, and included production assistance from Sarah Carroll. Murder True Crime Stories is hosted by Carter Roy. You may know a serial killer's crimes, now uncover the psychology behind them. Mind of a Serial Killer is a Crime House original. New episodes drop every Monday. Just search Mind of a Serial Killer and follow wherever you listen to podcasts.