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Hi, listeners, it's Carter Roy. Real quick. Before today's episode of Murder True Crime Stories, I want to tell you about another show from Crime House that I know you'll love. America's Most Infamous Crimes. Hosted by Katie Ring. Each week, Katie takes on one of the most notorious criminal cases in American history. Serial killers who terrorized cities, unsolved mysteries that keep detectives up at night, and investigations that change the way we think about justice. Listen to and follow America's most infamous crimes Tuesday through Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts. This his crime house. There's a kind of comfort. We all rely on the idea that when you come home at night, close the door behind you and turn on the lights. Whatever's out there stays out there. In November of 2022, in the college town of Moscow, Idaho, five students shared a house just off campus. It was busy, social, and constantly in motion. People coming and going late nights that all started to feel the same. That night followed the same pattern. They went out with friends, made their way home, and eventually drifted off to sleep, expecting the next day to be like any other. By morning, their house was a crime scene. Four of them had been killed. Not quietly, not quickly. Inside, there were clear signs of a struggle. Evidence that at least some of them had woken up, had realized what was happening and had tried to fight back. And yet, from the outside, there was no obvious sign of how anyone had gotten in. What followed was confusion, then fear. Students left town. Parents pulled their kids from campus and and investigators were left trying to piece together a case that seemed to defy explanation. There were fragments, surveillance footage, A car that kept appearing near the house in the early morning hours. A timeline that raised as many questions as it answered. And slowly the possibility emerged that this hadn't been random at all. An arrest would eventually come. Someone would plead guilty and be sentenced. But even now, when you look closely at what happened inside that house, some parts of this story still don't sit right. This is the Idaho College murders. People's lives are like a story. There's a beginning, a middle, and an end. But you don't always know which part you're on. Sometimes the final chapter arrives far too soon. And we don't always get to know the real ending. I'm Carter Roy, and this is True Crime Stories, a Crime House original. Powered by Pave Studios. New episodes come out every Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. Thank you for being part of the Crime House community. Please rate, review and follow the show and for ad free access to every episode. Subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. Welcome back to another episode of Murder Mystery Fridays where I'm covering cases with questions that I can't get out of my head. The ones where the evidence points in multiple directions and every theory feels like a possibility. Today I'm revisiting a case I've covered before, but I just can't let go of the Idaho College murders. Not only is it heartbreaking, but it it's bizarre too. In November of 2022, four college students in the small town of Moscow, Idaho were killed inside their off campus home after a night out with friends. Inside, investigators found signs of a struggle, evidence that at least some of them had woken up and tried to fight back. And yet, from the outside, there was nothing that clearly explained how the killer got in. For weeks, the case remained a mystery. The details that did emerge only made things more unsettling, leaving a community on edge and investigators under pressure. An arrest would eventually come, followed by a plea agreement and sentencing. But even now, when you take a closer look at what happened, some of the most important questions remain unanswered. All that and more coming up. You know that moment in spring when you open your closet and you think, do I really need all this? I do. Lately I've been trying to keep fewer pieces, but ones that actually feel special and wear well every day. And that is why I keep coming back to Quints. Their linen pants and shirts are lightweight, breathable and comfortable. I literally have one on right now. The kind of pieces that make spring mornings effortless. And their Flit activewear. Oh, soft moisture wicking anti odor. Honestly, I want to live in it. The best part is the value. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen. So you're getting premium quality at prices 50 to 60% lower than similar brands. Everything is made to last and simplifies getting dressed. Refresh your wardrobe with quint. Go to quint.com crimehouse for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. Go to Q U I n c e.com crimehouse for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com crimehouse some wrecks cause injuries that take a lifetime to heal and some never heal at all. These moments can leave families struggling with medical bills, long term care and deep uncertainty. At Morris DeWitt injury lawyers, we help real people navigate the challenges of life changing cases with resources and guidance. We stand by you every step of the way. Real cases, real injuries. Morris DeWitt Injury Lawyers paid spokesperson Trey Morris Shreveport, LA 2519598. Before the crime scene tape and the flashing lights appeared on camera, King Road, there were four college students just trying to figure out who they were going to be. They laughed too loudly and stayed up too late. They had favorite coffee orders, inside jokes, and weekend plans. This is where their story really begins, and this is how they should be remembered. For Madison Mogen, or Maddie, as her friends called her, the University of Idaho was an important stepping stone. She was raised in Coeur d', Alene, just 90 minutes north of the university. Her parents, Karen and Scott, said she was the kind of girl who made friends the second she walked into a room. She was funny, bright, and endlessly loyal. When Maddie graduated high school in 2019, she moved to Moscow for college with plans to major in marketing. She was a little nervous, but excited to be on her own. Most of all, she was excited to join a sorority on campus. Maddie's first choice was Alpha Phi. Her second choice was PI Beta Phi. After a week of meeting all the girls in the different sorority houses, it was time for Maddie to learn where she'd spend the next four years. She ripped open her envelope and looked inside. It said PI Beta Phi, otherwise known as PI Phi. Maddie was disappointed. Alpha Phi was considered a top house on campus. PI Phi was not. But she didn't let her true emotions show. She ran to the PI Beta Phi house with her new sisters, all smiles. And once she was there, she threw herself into sorority life. She even used her marketing skills to help promote PI Phi on social media. She wanted them to be a top house, too. She was so good at it. The sorority asked her to manage their official Instagram account. It was impressive, but the rejection still stung. Especially because Maddie's best friend, Kaylee Gonsalvez, had come to the University of Idaho and gone through the sorority recruitment process with her. But Kaylee had gotten into Alpha Phi. It was the first time since sixth grade that they'd ever done anything apart for most of their lives, where you saw one, you saw the other. Kaylee had the bigger personality. She was a bit of a jokester, always recording funny videos of herself for social media. Maddie was quieter, but just as confident. Together, they balanced each other out perfectly. Their families joked that they were like sisters who just happened to have different last names. Real sisters, not sorority ones. But when they joined separate houses, Kaylee and Maddie had to make new friends on their own for the first time. But then Covid hit their sophomore year, and everything changed. The girls moved back home to Northern Idaho, where they were both from. By the time they got back to campus, things felt different. They weren't as jazzed about sorority life as they used to be. They didn't like the rules and restrictions and they didn't want to live in their sorority houses anymore. So the summer before senior year in 2022, they moved in together. By then, 21 year old Kaylee was about to graduate a semester early. She just landed a job with an IT company in Texas. Maddie, also 21, was still finishing her degree in marketing, but she was incredibly proud of her best friend for already getting her foot in the door and she would soon follow in her footsteps and strike out on her own. According to Maddie's boyfriend, she wanted to explore the world. But Maddie knew that no matter what they did or how many miles were between them, nothing would ever separate her and Kaylee. And in the meantime, the they were determined to have a great senior year, especially now that they lived off campus. Their house at 1122 King Road was a rental with five bedrooms. The entrance was on the ground floor which had two bedrooms. There was another bedroom in the basement below and two more upstairs and that's where Maddie and Kaylee lived. Kaylee also brought along her Golden Doodle Murphy, who she shared with her ex boyfriend. Besides that, there were three other women who lived there. Bethany Funk was in the basement while Dylan Mortensen and Zanna Kernodle were on the ground floor. 20 year old Zanna was majoring in marketing and working part time at a local restaurant. She was also one of Maddie's sorority sisters in PI Phi. Friends described her as funny, sharp and refreshingly herself. She was the group's de facto DJ and she didn't care much for appearances. She'd show up to a party in an oversized sweatshirt, hair and a messy bun, no makeup, and still steal the show. Unlike the other women in the house, Zanna didn't have any specific plans for the future when she came to the University of Idaho. But things had been slowly shifting for her. She was dating a guy named Ethan Chapin. The 20 year old was majoring in Recreation, sport and Tourism Management. They'd met at a frat party the year before. It wasn't instant fireworks, but they ran in the same circles, were always hanging out together, and their connection just grew naturally. Zanna had just spent the summer with his family and now he was spending almost every night at the King Road house with her. Ethan was a triplet, born just minutes apart from his brother Hunter and his sister Maisie. They'd grown up in Mount Vernon in Washington State and had been incredibly close their entire lives. So when it came time for college, they all decided to go to the University of Idaho together. Ethan and Hunter joined Sigma Kai, and that's actually how Ethan met Zanna at a party hosted by his friends frat. And while he and his brother were both tall, athletic and easygoing, Ethan stood out as the kind of guy who could make anyone feel welcome. His siblings said he was magnetic and a natural leader. When his parents, Jim and Stacy came to visit for Parents weekend in early November 2022, they were thrilled to see how well their kids had adjusted to college life. They tailgated at the football game, met their kids friends and spent time with Zanna. It was clear that she and Ethan were getting serious. As they left Moscow to drive back home, Stacy turned to Jim and said she felt proud, like they'd made it through the hardest part of raising their kids and now they were all thriving. But just one week later, all of that would change and four young lives full of promise and plans would come to a devastating end.
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November 12, 2022 was a Saturday in Moscow, Idaho. That evening, the University of Idaho's football team played a home game. The students were out in full force, tailgating all day before the game. Even after the team lost, the party didn't stop that night. Music spilled from fraternity houses and the streets were alive with clusters of students walking from one party to the next. At 1122 King Road, all five roommates got ready to go out and join the fun. Kaylee and Maddie headed to a local sports bar called the Corner club. It was a longtime Moscow staple with neon lights and affordable drinks. Zanna met up with Ethan and they went to a party at Sigma Chi, just a few blocks away. They danced the night away amongst friends. Dylan and Bethany went out separately. They were doing their own thing, but they said they would probably end up at the Sigma Chi party. After they'd gotten their fill of the corner club, Kaylee and Maddie wanted a late night snack, so they stopped by a popular food truck called the Grub Truck. For some reason, the Grub Truck live streamed their late night rush on Twitch, so anyone who came to order was caught on camera and anyone could tune in online and watch if they wanted to. Kaylee and Maddie showed up around 1.30am the live stream didn't capture their audio, but they were seen smiling and chatting with each other. Then at one point, a man in a hoodie appeared nearby. They chatted for a bit, then turned and walked away. A few seconds later, he followed in their direction. The exchange would become a point of contention later, but for now, Kaylee and Maddie called an Uber and went home. Meanwhile, Zanna and Ethan continued to party, but around 1:45am they decided to call it a night and head home. Dylan and Bethany, who also stopped by the party, got back to the house soon after. By about 2am all five roommates plus Ethan were back under the same roof. The lights inside the King Roadhouse flicked off one by one. Outside, the rest of the town was winding down normal, except for one thing. Around 3:30am A white Hyundai Elantra began appearing on security cameras from nearby homes. It drove past the King Road house once, then again and again. Over the next half hour, it circled the block several times before finally stopping near the home. Inside, Zanna was still awake, hungry after a night of drinking. She ordered doordash. The delivery Guy arrived around 4am handing off her order at the front door. She took it back to her room on the ground floor where Ethan was already asleep and began scrolling through TikTok. She didn't hear when, minutes later, the sliding glass door in the kitchen opened and a masked figure stepped inside. The intruder moved quietly through the house. He went right to the stairs, heading to the second floor where Maddie and Kaylee were cuddled together in Maddie's bed. Meanwhile, on the ground floor, Dylan stirred. When she heard a sound, she thought it must have been Kaylee playing with her dog upstairs. But then she heard something else. Kaylee's voice sang softly, there's someone here. Dylan cracked open her bedroom door, listening. She didn't See anyone. So she closed it again, assuming she'd imagined it. She couldn't have known that just above her, the intruder had unsheathed a knife and was stabbing Maddy and Kaylee to death. Back in her room, Dylan heard more strange noises. Then a man's voice. Say, it's okay. I'm going to help you. Dylan opened her door again, just to crack. But still she didn't see anything. She was thoroughly freaked out at that point, especially when she heard crying. She thought it might be Zanna. And then there was a thud. After that, Kaylee's dog, Murphy, started barking upstairs. So Dylan looked out her door a third time. That was when she saw him. A masked man dressed in black, walking toward her. The only distinguishing feature she noticed was his bushy eyebrows and his height, roughly 5ft 10 inches. She froze in panic, but it seemed like the intruder was hadn't noticed her. He walked right past her room, down the hallway toward the sliding glass door in the kitchen. Dylan couldn't make sense of it. What was going on. She went back into her bedroom, locked her door, and grabbed her phone. She started texting her roommates. Nothing from Kaylee or Maddie or Zanna or Ethan. The only person who responded was Bethany, who was in the basement bedroom. Dylan told her she'd seen someone in a ski mask and that she was terrified. Bethany said she hadn't heard anything, but told Dylan to run to her room. So Dylan did. She and Bethany huddled together for the next few hours. Later that morning, Bethany and Dylan still hadn't heard back from any of their roommates. So Dylan reached out to some friends for help. Hunter Johnson and his girlfriend, Emily Allant. Dylan said something weird had happened during the night and she was scared. She asked if they could come check out the house. Apparently, this wasn't the first time Dylan had called her friends in a panic. But in the past, it had been for small things, like a strange noise that ended up just being a pan falling off a shelf. So even though Dylan sounded frightened, Hunter and Emily weren't super alarmed. Still, they agreed to come by. Hunter arrived at the house first, just ahead of Emily and a few other friends who had come with them. Dylan and Bethany met them outside and waited while Hunter went in. He headed straight to Zanna's room. What he saw made him sick to his stomach. Zanna and Ethan lay lifeless with what appeared to be stab wounds. He searched for a pulse, but felt nothing. Hunter was in shock, but he still wanted to protect his friends. So he turned back and told the others that Someone needed to call 911 because there was an unconscious person in the house. He didn't say what he already knew to be true. Zanna and Ethan were dead within minutes of receiving the call from 1122 King Road on. Officers from the Moscow Police Department arrived. They were followed by the Idaho State Police forensic team. Inside they discovered four bodies. But outside, no one told the group of friends waiting in the driveway what had really happened. As far as the friends knew, only Zanna and Ethan had been targeted. After the officers realized the scope of the violence, they called for backup. Corporal Brett Payne from the Moscow Police Department was brought in to help secure and process the scene. Officer Smith, one of the first responders, walked him through the house. They started on the second floor in Zanna's bedroom. Zanna lay on the floor with what appeared to be stab wounds. Ethan was nearby with similar injuries. Both were dead. Then Payne followed Smith upstairs stairs to the third floor where Kaylee's dog Murphy was unharmed. But the horror was in the next room, Maddie's bedroom. Kaylee and Maddie were in the bed together with visible stab wounds. Next to them, Corporal Payne noticed something that would soon become key evidence. A tan leather KA bar military style hunting knife sheath embossed with a Marine Corps insignia. Outside, the police taped off the scene. The friends gathered on the sidewalk began to realize that something truly terrible had happened. Then at 1:04pm the University of Idaho sent out a campus alert that there was an ongoing homicide investigation on King Road. It warned other students to stay away and shelter in place. The Then not long after that, a second alert followed. This time it confirmed that four people were dead. The group outside the King Road house struggled to process what they were reading. No one from law enforcement had told them anything. And now they were learning from a university text message that four of their friends had been murdered in the same house some of them had slept in that night. It didn't feel real. The friends got in touch with Ethan's siblings, Hunter and Maisie, and told them the news. The two surviving triplets were the ones who had to call their parents and tell them that Ethan was gone. Their mom had been grocery shopping when they called and she couldn't understand what they were telling her at first. But she knew one thing. Whatever had happened, she and her husband needed to get to the campus right away. They needed to be there for their kids. So they started the six hour drive to Moscow. Meanwhile, the news reached Zanna's sister who was studying at Washington State University 10 miles away. She called their Father? She didn't tell him the details over the phone. She just told him to come to Moscow. In northern Idaho, Kaylee and Maddie's families were both starting to get concerning messages from the girl's friends. But no one could get a hold of either Kaylee or Maddie. So Kaylee's parents called Maddie's mom to see if she knew what was going on. She said she was already on her way to the campus. She promised to bring both girls home once she found them. The confusion lasted until late afternoon when police finally confirmed the worst for the families. All four of their kids had been killed and no one knew why. As the families tried to process everything, Corporal Payne began interviewing anyone who might help fill in the blanks. Rumors were spreading among students that drugs had been involved, maybe even a cartel, or that there was some love triangle that had gone wrong. But the police weren't inclined to believe any of that just yet. The they needed to get the facts straight first. Corporal Payne spoke to Kaylee's ex boyfriend, Jack Ducor, who said he was Murphy's co owner, but he didn't have much else to add. Payne also talked to the surviving roommates. Dylan told him about the masked man she'd seen. She described him as wearing all Black, standing around five'10 and and having an athletic build. She also added that he had bushy eyebrows. It wasn't a lot to go on, but it was something. Bethany, the other surviving roommate, said she hadn't heard or seen anything that night. All she knew was what Dylan had told her. Meanwhile, forensic investigators processed the crime scene inside the King Road house. They had found the knife sheath in Mattie's room, which seemed to be left behind by the killer. They sent it off for further testing. They also found a partial visible shoe print outside of Dylan's bedroom door. It had a pattern of repeated diamond shapes similar to what you'd find on the sole of a vans type shoe. The print was directly in the path Dylan had described the intruder taking as he left the house. So it seemed likely it was his footprint. They were solid clues, but they needed to find a suspect first. So detectives began combing through nearby surveillance footage from neighborhood ring cameras. That's when they found something chilling. A video of a white Hyundai Elantra circling the King Road street multiple times in the early morning hours of November 13th. Then at around 4:20am the same car was seen speeding away from the area. It was the best lead they had. If they could find the vehicle, they could find the driver, and maybe they would find Their killer.
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Girl. Winter is so last season and now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders that perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done. Hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope. It's time for a little in person sweet spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic.
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What they did to your family. You're lucky to make it out alive. Streaming on Peacock.
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These men are going to come after me. Taking them out. It's my only chance.
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Put a bullet in her head. From the co creator of Ozark.
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Looks like a family was running drugs.
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Execution style killing. It's rare for the Keys. Any leads on who they might have been running for?
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The cartel killed my family.
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I'm gonna kill them.
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All of them.
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Mia Streaming now only on Peacock.
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If you like your true crime like you like your coffee, Red Handed is the podcast for you. It's dark, intense, and might just keep you up all night. I'm Hannah. I'm Saruti. And every week on Red Handed, we break down a different fascinating case. From the most recent US Trials everyone is obsessing over, like Brendan Banfield, Karen Reid and Ellen Greenberg, to the most unbelievable stories from around the world. There's nothing we love more than digging into every detail of the cases we cover. Getting beyond a basic analysis and cutting to the heart of the story. Red handed has over 400 episodes ready to binge right now. Plus, be sure to check out our weekly sister show shorthand, where we unpack everything from the Black death to Area 51. If you're looking for smart, detailed true crime with personality, check out Red Handed wherever you get your podcasts.
- [30:51]
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Investigators had a few puzzle pieces to work with, but they couldn't see the big picture. Yet they believed that Maddie had been a target. The killer had gone into her room first, where she and Kaylee had fallen asleep together. It wasn't clear if Kaylee was collateral damage or if the murderer had always planned on killing her as well. The same went for Zanna. It was possible the killer only went after her because she'd come out into the hallway after hearing the commotion upstairs. It would make sense if he had been trying to get rid of witnesses, but it still didn't explain why he targeted Ethan too. He was asleep in Zanna's bed at the Time, no one could make sense of the killer's motives. The victim's family and friends were left shocked and confused. And in the following days, they didn't get any more clarity. Not even when the autopsy reports came out. On November 16, three days after the murders, the medical examiner confirmed that all four had been stabbed multiple times. Some bore defensive wounds, which suggested they were awake at the time of the attack and fought back. The others, who didn't have defensive wounds, were likely asleep when they were killed. There was no evidence of sexual assault, just the stab wounds. These details only deepen the mystery. Clearly, the killer had fixated on these particular students. But why? Detectives began canvassing local stores, asking if anyone had recently purchased a knife that would fit the sheath they'd found. They scoured dumpsters near King Road looking for evidence, but came up empty. Meanwhile, the governor of Idaho allocated up to $1 million in state emergency funds to support the ongoing investigation. By then, the crime was national news and the tips were pouring in. Detectives received thousands of calls and emails from across the country. Most led nowhere, but investigators tried to follow everyone. Then a tip came in that stood out. On November 29, 16 days after the murders, a Washington State University police officer called the Moscow PD. He'd been working on the university's Pullman campus, approximately eight to nine miles west of Moscow, when he spotted a white Hyundai Elantra, the same type of car that had been spotted circling King Road. It was registered to a 28 year old PhD student named Brian Kohberger who was studying criminology. The Moscow police ran Kohberger's driver's license. They noticed that his photo matched Dylan's description of the masked man she saw. He had an athletic build, was about 5:10, and head, Bushy eyebrows. They also discovered that Kohberger had recently changed his license plates. He had been pulled over in August while driving a white Hyundai Elantra. At the time, he had Pennsylvania plates, which were set to expire on Nov. 30. He'd gotten new Washington plates on Nov. 18, just five days after the murders. Now, it could have been a coincidence his plates were set to expire, or it could have been an attempt to cover his tracks. Detectives filed a warrant for Kohberger's phone records. They wanted to build a profile and see if he had any connection to the murdered Idaho students. At the same time, though, they continued to chase every credible lead. And they didn't want to get tunnel vision until they had clear evidence pointing to the killer. It was a good strategy. The problem was they couldn't tell the community about it. If they did, Kohberger could get spooked and try to flee or destroy evidence. But as the weeks dragged on, the lack of arrests and information created another issue. The murders hadn't just shocked Moscow, they shocked the entire country. And it seemed like everyone had an opinion about what happened. Armchair detectives began trading theories online. First there was Dylan and Bethany, the surviving roommates. People wondered why they waited so long to call 91 1. The attacks took place around 4am but the police weren't notified until nearly noon. Some even accused the women of being involved. Then there was the guy in the hoodie. Kaylee and Maddie had stopped at the food truck called the grub truck around 1:30am on November 13th. The grub truck live streamed their late night rush and the video of Kaylee and Maddie ordering food had gone viral after it was posted on TikTok. The video showed a man in a hoodie speaking to them for a few moments soon after the murders. Other students recognized the guy. He was a student in a fraternity. People quickly began accusing him of being the murderer. Similarly, the Uber driver who took Kaylee and Maddie home that night came under suspicion. So did the doordash driver who had delivered food to Zanna just after 4am only minutes before her murder. These theories were understandable, but dangerous. Desperate for answers, the public was scrutinizing innocent people who had absolutely no involvement in the case. So on Dec.12th, almost a month since the murders, the Moscow police department released a statement. The grub truck guy, the Uber and doordash drivers, Dylan and Bethany and several other people who had been accused were all cleared of any involvement. The Moscow community was grateful for the clarity, but the relief was short lived. Citizens wanted to know who did this, and they wanted that person off their streets. Behind the scenes, investigators were getting closer. They had a strong hunch about their suspect, but they needed more evidence to ensure the charges stuck. Publicly, all they said was that they were looking for the driver of a white 2011, 2012 or 2013 Hyundai Elantra, although later data revealed the model might have been as late as 2016. And at the time, the authorities didn't know that the person they were searching for was having his own run in with a law several states away in Indiana. Just a few days after the Moscow police's statement on December 15, Brian Kohberger and his father were driving home to Pennsylvania for the holidays. That day, Kohberger was pulled over twice in Indiana, once by a sheriff's deputy for speeding and then, less than 10 minutes later, by a state trooper for following the car in front of him too closely. In both cases, he was let go with a warning. At the time, no law enforcement alerts had been issued linking his vehicle or name to the Moscow investigation, so the Indiana officers had no idea they'd just come face to face with a murder suspect. But when the Moscow police finally got Kohberger's cell phone data a few days later, they found more than enough evidence. Not only did that information point to him being the killer, but it also showed that he'd been planning this attack for months. On the night of the murders, Coburger's phone had traveled from Pullman, Washington, toward Moscow, Idaho, about nine miles away. But then, at 2:45am it was powered off for roughly two hours. At 4:48am the phone came back online. By then, it was heading away from Moscow, back toward Pullman. Later that morning, the phone pinged again in Moscow, right near the King Road house. It seemed like Kohberger had returned to the scene, maybe to see what was happening or to retrieve something he'd left behind. Something like a knife sheath. Kohberger's phone had also been in Moscow, near the victim's home, 23 times before the murders. The pings in the area started back in early July, four months earlier. To Payne and his fellow investigators, it looked like Coburger had been casing the house. They still didn't know why that house or why those kids, but it looked like he'd been stalking them for months. As the evidence mounted, the FBI quietly began surveilling Kohberger at his family home in Pennsylvania. On December 27, agents collected trash from outside the residence and managed to find a used Q tip. They sent it off for DNA testing. When the results came back, they were clear. Whoever left the DNA on the knife sheath at the crime scene was a close relation. They were the biological son of whoever used the Q tip. In other words, the killer's father had used the Q tip. It confirmed, through the same kind of genetic genealogy that helped catch the Golden State killer, that the DNA on the sheath belonged to Brian Kohberger. At around 3 in the morning on December 30, 2022, 40 members of the Pennsylvania State Police SWAT team surrounded the Kohberger family home. It had been more than six weeks since the murders of Kaylee, Maddie, Zanna, and Ethan. Brian Kohberger had driven across the country just before Christmas. His white Hyundai Elantra, the same car police had spent weeks tracking, was parked in the driveway outside, the SWAT team blew through the Coburger's front door. They thought the occupants would all be asleep. They found 28 year old Kohberger in the kitchen. Wearing latex gloves, he was methodically sealing his trash into separate ziplocs apart from the rest of the family's garbage. After all, he was a criminology student. He knew his DNA could give him away. But apparently he didn't realize his father's DNA could too. As the SWAT team zip tied Kohberger's wrists, he started speaking to them as if they were guest lecturers at one of his classes. First, he asked whether anyone else had been arrested. Then he spoke to one of them about being a criminology student. He even suggested they get a coffee after all of this. He was stunningly calm about the arrest and didn't seem to have any remorse or any emotion, really. The SWAT officers didn't engage with him. They just put him in the back of a police car and took him down to the station. Kohberger was charged, charged with four counts of first degree murder and one count of burglary. Within days, FBI agents began the process of extraditing him back to Idaho to face trial. On January 4, 2023, Kohberger was escorted onto a police aircraft in Pennsylvania. When he landed in Moscow, reporters lined the streets waiting to catch a glimpse of him. Cameras followed his every move. To many, it felt like the story was finally reaching an end. But the more people learned about Bryan Kohberger, the stranger and darker the picture became. Bryan Kohberger grew up in the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania. As a teenager, he was quiet, awkward, and often kept to himself. Classmates said he could be unpredictable and sometimes started fights without warning. He also struggled with visual snow, a neurological condition where a person's vision is obscured by scattering dots. It isn't a well studied condition, but according to some neurologists, it can be debilitating. There's no direct causation between visual snow and mental illness, but one research team found that people who experience visual snow also reported high levels of anxiety, depression, and depersonalization. This was true for Kohberger. He claimed he developed visual snow around the same time he noticed his lack of emotions. When Kohberger was 16, he wrote about feeling detached from reality in an online forum, like he was trapped inside his own body, watching life unfold through a screen. He felt little emotion or remorse, and he struggled to connect with anyone at all. It only got worse when he added drugs to the mix. Kohberger started using heroin in high school, when he was deeply depressed and suicidal. At some point, it seemed like he got a handle on his visual snow. But the heroin use didn't stop. His father sent him to rehab more than once, until eventually Kohberger claimed he'd gotten clean. By his mid-20s, Kohberger seemed to have turned things around. He was studying psychology at Desales University, a small Catholic school in Pennsylvania. During that time, he became fascinated with the criminal mind. In particular, he wanted to understand what made people commit violent acts. He even told a friend that he hoped to work with high profile offenders one day. He earned his bachelor's degree in 2020, then went on to a master's program, also at DeSales. As a graduate student, he was known for being meticulous, highly analytical, and deeply focused on methodology and data. He was especially interested in collecting data about violent criminals. For example, in the months before the Idaho murders, he posted a survey on Reddit. He introduced himself as a student investigator working with two professors at DeSales. He wanted to find former inmates who would be willing to answer some questions in the survey. He asked them to describe their thoughts, emotions, and actions from the beginning to end of the crime commission process. At the time, it sounded academic, but in hindsight, it read like something else entirely. A step by step guide to committing a crime. Even so, Kohberger did so well in his graduate program that one of his professors recommended him for a PhD in criminal justice at Washington State University. Kohberger was accepted and moved to Pullman in the fall of 2022. The campus was about nine miles away from the University of Idaho in Moscow. At Washington State, he began pursuing a doctorate in criminology. He also worked as a teacher's assistant, grading papers and teaching undergraduate courses. Classmates later said he was brilliant but strange. He didn't go to parties or socialize. He seemed mechanical, like he was observing people rather than engaging with them. Just days before the murders, Kohberger had been unusually animated during a discussion about forensics and how prosecutors used DNA evidence to win convictions, or alternatively, how they could lose if there was no DNA left behind. It must have seemed obvious to his peers. Of course, prosecutors needed evidence that wasn't really a hot take. But in retrospect, it seemed like Kohberger was speaking to himself, because by that point, he'd already been casing the house on King Road. And if he wanted to get away with my murder, he had to make sure it went off without a hitch. A few days later, on November 13, 2022, Coburger drove to Moscow in the middle of the night and crept into the King road House. Around 4am he fatally stabbed Kaylee, Maddie, Zanna, and Ethan. Then he drove back to Pullman as if nothing had happened. In the days that followed, Kohberger continued to go to class and grade papers. The semester came to a close without the police even questioning Kohberger. He must have thought he was in the clear. So he drove back home to Pennsylvania for the holidays without a care in the world. He didn't know that FBI agents had started surveilling him and that by the end of December, they would have enough evidence to arrest him. Nearly five months after Bryan Kohberger was extradited to Idaho, he appeared in court for his arraignment. When the judge asked for his plea, Kohberger stood silent. And by law, that meant the judge entered a not guilty plea on his behalf. The four first degree murder charges made him eligible for the death penalty, but his lawyers would spend the next months fighting to take that off the table. And. And as the case made its way through the courts, the focus in Moscow shifted to a different kind of battle. Foreclosure. The owner of 1122 King Road, the house where the murders had occurred, donated the rental to the University of Idaho. The school then announced plans to tear it down. Plenty of people in the community cheered the decision, but not everyone agreed. Kaylee Gonzalez and Zannicarnodel's families were adamantly opposed. They argued that tearing it down could destroy one of the most critical pieces of evidence in the case. And they were doing it before a trial date had even been set. University president Scott Green responded with a statement that read, quote, while we appreciate the emotional connection some family members of the victims may have to this house, it is time for its removal and to allow the collective healing of our community to continue. It was a bold move to prioritize collective healing over the victim's family's wishes. And despite their protests, the plan went forward. On December 28, 2023, just over a year after the murders, the demolition began. At sunrise, heavy machinery clawed through the walls of the house, tearing it down to its foundation. Less than two hours later, the King Roadhouse was gone. For some, it was a symbol of healing. But for others, it felt like erasing the truth before justice had even been served. The case against Bryan Kohberger moved slowly through Idaho's courts. In September 2024, nearly two years after the murders, a judge ruled that Kohberger's trial would be moved out of Latah county, where the Crime took place. The local media had been publicizing the case nonstop, and the judge believed Kohberger wouldn't get a fair trial. So it was moved to Boise, nearly 300 miles away. Courts tend to move slowly, especially in death penalty cases, but this one kept getting delayed. Kohberger's trial had originally been scheduled for June 2025, but it was pushed back two months to August. During that time, Kohberger's defense team filed motion after motion on his behalf. They challenged the DNA evidence. They asked the court to consider his mental health. And perhaps most importantly, they sought to take the death penalty off the table. Kohberger's lawyers revealed that he'd been diagnosed with a form of autism. They argued that pursuing the death penalty would violate a Supreme court ruling from 2002 that banned states from executing anyone with an intellectual disability. However, autism is considered a developmental disability, not an intellectual one. Still, Kohberger's lawyers tried to argue that his diagnosis should be treated similarly. The judge denied that request. When that didn't work, the defense tried to suppress the DNA evidence. They argued that the genetic genealogy technique used to match Kohberger's father's DNA to the knife sheath had been unconstitutional. The judge denied that too. The evidence would still be stand. The back and forth seemed never ending. But then, just weeks before the long awaited trial, the proceedings suddenly went into hyper speed. In return for dropping the death penalty, Kohberger agreed to plead guilty. The plea deal wasn't entirely unexpected. It was no secret that Kohberger wanted to avoid the death penalty. Prosecutors had even met privately with victims families to prepare them for the decision. They believed it was the surest path to justice. A way to guarantee Kohberger would never walk free again. Madison Mogan and Ethan Chapin's families supported the idea. But Kaylee Goncalves's family felt blindsided. Mostly because they still didn't know why Kohberger had done what he did. They needed that information to make sense of their daughter's death and find closure. But this deal meant they never would. On July 2, 2025, Bryan Kohberger, now 30, returned to court for the first time since his arrest. He spoke briefly when the judge read each victim's name. Kaylee Gonzalez, Madison Mogen, Zanna Kernodle, Ethan Chapin. He was asked the same question. Did you murder this person? Each time Kohberger replied, yes, he was guilty. His voice never changed and his face remained expressionless. According to his defense attorneys, that flat effect was a symptom of his autism. For many in the room, though it seemed like he simply lacked any remorse for what he'd done. Three weeks later came the sentencing. The families of the four students faced Kohberger one final time, giving victim impact statements. Kaylee's sister Olivia looked him right in the eye and said, my sister Kaylee and her best friend Maddy were not yours to take. They were not yours to study, to stalk, or to silence. They're everything you could never be. Loved, accepted, vibrant, accomplished, brave and powerful. Zanna's aunt took a different approach. She told Kohberger that she could no longer live with the hate she felt for him, and so she forgave him. She said that if he ever wanted to tell her what had happened that night, why he'd done what he did, she would listen. Dylan Mortenson, one of the surviving roommates, sobbed as she spoke. She described her panic attacks, how she sometimes dropped to the floor, her heart racing as she relived that day over and over again. She said that he took away her ability to trust the world around her. She said, quote, what he did shattered me in places I didn't know could break. As each person spoke, Kohberger sat silent. And when he was given the chance to respond, he declined to speak. With that, the case was officially closed. Kohberger was sentenced to four consecutive life sentences, plus 10 years, as outlined in the plea deal. He would not live to see the outside of a prison ever again. But even though justice had been served, there were still so many questions. The murder weapon was never found. Kohberger's motive was never revealed, and police still don't know which of the students, if any, was the intended target. In the absence of a clear motive, theories had filled the gaps. Some believe Kohberger studied criminology not to understand criminals, but to become one. At Desales University, classmates remembered how he fixated on violent offenders. Asking about their emotions, motives, and how they felt before and after killing others point to something darker. The possibility that Kohberger identified with the INCEL community, short for involuntarily celibate. It's a movement of men who feel rejected by women and turn that resentment into hatred and violence toward them. The group's most infamous figure, Elliot Rodger, killed six people near the University of California, Santa Barbara, in 2014. He targeted a sorority house of women who he felt had rejected at him. At Desales, the students recalled Coburger studying Roger's case closely. He seemed fascinated by it. And according to Liz Garbus, co director of the docu series, one night in Idaho, it Did seem like either Maddie or Kaylee were the intended victims of Coburger's rampage. Coburger went straight to their room and they were the first ones killed. Some theorized that maybe Kohberger had crossed paths with one or both of them before the murders. Maybe he had felt rejected by them. Or maybe he just became obsessed. It was hard to say. But Kohberger may have left some clues behind online. Before Kohberger's arrest, thousands of Internet sleuths gathered in Facebook groups trading theories about the case. But one user in particular stood out. He went by the name Papa Roger. His profile picture was an old sepia toned photo of a soldier. And his posts were odd. He asked questions about how the killer might have held the knife, which hand, which grip. He even mentioned the knife sheath before that was public knowledge. And for some reason he kept saying that the white Hyundai Elantra was a red herring. Then Kohberger was arrested. And when the Facebook group's administrators saw his photo, chills went down their spines. The resemblance between Kohberger and Papa Rogers profile pic was uncanny. And the username sounded like a reference to Elliot Roger, the UCSB shooter most suspicious of all. Once Kohberger was arrested, Papa Rogers never made another post in the group. Authorities later said they found no evidence linking the account to Kohberger. But many still believe it was him. That he'd been trying to insert himself into the investigation. Even with a conviction, there's something unsatisfying about this case. Kohberger never gave a confession or any kind of explanation. And for the families, friends and even the online sluice, that missing piece is incredibly hard to reconcile. We want answers. We believe that if we can make sense of crimes like this, we can protect ourselves from the same fate. If we know someone's motives, we can be on the lookout. But in the end, Co Burger isn't the one we should remember. It's the lives he took. Kaylee's fierce loyalty. Maddie's easy laugh. Zanna's quiet confidence. Ethan's big hearted charm. There's no neat ending here. But when you strip away all the theories, all the fear, fear and anger, what's left are four names, four faces. And a town that will never forget. Thanks so much for listening. I'm Carter Roy and this is True Crime Stories. Come back next time for the story of another murder and on all the people it affected. True Crime Stories is a Crime House original. Powered by Pave Studios Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on social media, Rimehouse on TikTok and Instagram. Don't forget to rate, review and follow Murder True Crime Stories wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference and to enhance your Murder True Crime Crime Stories listening experience, subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode ad free. We'll be back on Tuesday. Murder True Crime Stories is hosted by me, Carter Roy and is a Crime House original. Powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Murder True Crime Stories team. Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benidon, Natalie Perchovsky, Lori Marinelli, Cassidy Dillon and Russell Nash. Thank you for listening.
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Thanks for listening to today's episode of Murder True Crime Stories. Not sure what to listen to next? Check out a America's Most Infamous Crimes hosted by Katie Ring. From serial killers to unsolved mysteries and game changing investigations, each week Katie takes on a notorious criminal case in American history. Listen to and follow America's Most Infamous Crimes now wherever you listen to podcasts. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying Big Wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment
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