Podcast Summary: Murder: True Crime Stories

Episode: MYSTERY: The Sleepwalker Murder (feat. Payne Lindsey)
Date: March 6, 2026
Host: Carter Roy
Guest: Payne Lindsey (Up and Vanished)

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the infamous 1997 murder case of Yarmila Flater—commonly called "The Sleepwalker Murder." Host Carter Roy and guest Payne Lindsey explore the psychological mysteries, court trial controversies, and haunting aftermath of a case where a seemingly loving husband, Scott Flater, claimed to have killed his wife while sleepwalking. The episode examines not only the crime but also the complexities of sleep disorders, legal and moral responsibility, and the impact on the surviving family.

Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Introduction to the Case & Guest (01:12–04:01)

• Setting the Stage:
  • Payne Lindsey introduces the case: a brutal, perplexing murder—44 stab wounds, a pool full of blood, a confused husband (Scott Flater) who claims to have no memory of the event.
  • Payne notes the case's "weirdness" and its lingering resonance due to its challenge to our understanding of the mind and memory.
    • Quote: "Scott's story shows how complex our minds really are. It makes us question how well we really know ourselves." (03:18 – Payne Lindsey)

2. Scott Flater’s Background and Sleepwalking History (05:08–17:58)

• Early Traumas:
  • Born in 1955, eldest of five in a chaotic, abusive household.
  • Father was emotionally and physically abusive; Scott often protected siblings.
• Emergence of Sleepwalking:
  • Childhood onset, incidents growing increasingly dramatic and violent (pushing, throwing his sister).
  • Family kept his sleepwalking secret to preserve normalcy.
• Personal and Family Life:
  • Married high school sweetheart Yarmila; steady, religious, family-centered life.
  • Converted to Mormonism together; moved several times for Scott’s career.
  • No public history of violence or marital strife.

3. Events Leading to the Crime (19:48–29:37)

• Build-Up of Stress:
  • Severe work stress due to impending job layoffs, leading Scott to lose sleep and (against religious beliefs) take caffeine pills.
  • More frequent sleepwalking episodes observed by Yarmila as stress increases.
• The Day of the Murder (Jan 16–17, 1997):
  • Regular evening: family dinner, church, attempted pool filter repair.
  • Scott goes to bed at ~10:00 PM.

The Night of the Crime

• Neighbor Accounts (20:00–29:37):
  • Neighbors hear moans, see Scott outside in PJs, washing his hands, donning gloves, dragging Yarmila, holding her underwater.
  • 911 is called as Scott is seen drowning his wife.
• Police Arrival:
  • Scene is grisly—Yarmila in pool, water red with blood, evidence hidden in car trunk.
  • Officers arrest Scott, who appears confused, asking what's happening, saying he’d been asleep.

4. Investigation and Trial (30:05–47:00)

• Initial Interrogation:
  • Scott professes love for Yarmila, claims total memory loss of the event (31:00+).
  • Is visibly shocked when confronted with evidence (blood, wounds).
• Official Charges:
  • Charged with first-degree murder, facing the death penalty.
  • Family, especially children, shocked and steadfastly support his innocence.

Trial Highlights

• Prosecution’s Argument:
  • Led by Juan Martinez; claims methodical crime and cleanup show Scott was awake.
  • Details: multiple precise actions, clean clothes, evidence stashing.
  • Motive weak—marriage presumed happy, lack of concrete evidence of intent.
  • Memorable moment: "According to [the sleep expert], Scott performed at least 65 actions that were uncommon for a sleepwalker." (approx. 41:00)
• Defense’s Argument:
  • Points to lifelong, well-documented sleepwalking disorder.
  • Family testifies about his violent sleepwalking history.
  • Brings in experts from a similar Canadian case (Kenneth Parks).
  • Sleep studies show Scott’s sleep was extremely unstable before the murder.
  • Expert quote: "Many sleepwalkers can perform coordinated and complex actions… Scott’s behavior was even simpler." (Defense expert Dr. Roger Broughton, approx. 44:00)

5. Emotional Testimony and Verdict (47:00–51:00)

• Scott’s Courtroom Statement:
  • Admits confusion, deep grief; explains willingness to undergo sleep studies.
  • Quote: “All the scientific jargon and diagnoses were beside the point. He expressed his utter devastation at the loss of his wife and said her murder would haunt him forever.” (50:30)
• Jury and Sentencing:
  • Jury deliberates eight hours; finds Scott guilty of first-degree murder.
  • Judge spares him the death penalty after heartfelt letters from family, including the children and even from Yarmila’s mother.
  • Outcome: Life without parole. Scott remains in prison; appeals denied.

6. Case Aftermath and Reflections (51:00–52:42)

• Life After for Survivors:
  • Children grow up to be successful, still haunted by the events.
  • Scott has become a model inmate, teaching development courses.
• Lingering Questions:
  • The case remains a haunting mystery—did Scott truly have no control?
  • Raises broader issues of moral and legal accountability for violent acts committed in altered states of consciousness.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Unreliability of Memory:
  • "We've all been in a situation where we completely forget something we've done… For Scott Filleder, they were horrifying." (01:12 – Payne Lindsey)
• About Sleepwalking Danger:
  • "His mother and sister knew he would never intentionally hurt them. So whatever happened at night stayed between the family." (10:00 – Carter Roy)
• Neighbor’s Testimony:
  • "He walked back over to the woman who Greg now believed was Yarmila. Scott crouched down, grabbed his wife and dragged her to the edge of the pool. Then he pushed her in." (20:30 – Carter Roy recounting Greg Coons’ statement)
• On Moral Ambiguity:
  • "If someone didn’t intend to do something, is it the same thing? But then on the other side of the coin, if someone’s capable of killing people when they’re sleeping, that’s not really safe for everybody, either." (56:12 – Payne Lindsey)
• Personal Reflection:
  • "I think for me, I'd be curious your thoughts. I sort of feel like…certainly taking the death penalty off seemed reasonable in case he really was sleepwalking." (62:05 – Carter Roy)

Extended Conversation: Psychological and Moral Complexity (52:42–64:02)

Personal Experiences with Sleep Phenomena:

• Payne shares his own brush with "exploding head syndrome," underscoring the unpredictability of the sleeping mind.
  • Quote: "I heard what sounded audibly to me like the loudest train horn I've ever heard inside the room. It was an actual auditory thing… I ended up looking it up later. And I think it's called exploding head syndrome." (53:39 – Payne Lindsey)

Discussion on Responsibility and Safety:

• Both reflect on whether lack of intent (due to sleepwalking) reduces responsibility, or if the potential danger justifies permanent separation from society.
  • Quote: "If this were to happen to a loved one of mine, I would not accept the idea of, oh, he didn't mean to, so let's just drop it." (60:47 – Payne Lindsey)

Jury Dilemma:

• Carter asks: “If you were sitting on the jury now, knowing everything, what do you think you would have done?” (56:42)
• The uncertainty in separating accident from intent, and the weight of public safety, lingers.

Key Timestamps

| Segment | Time | |--------------------------------------------|-----------| | Introduction & Case Overview | 01:12-04:01| | Scott Flater’s Background | 05:08-17:58| | The Night of the Crime | 19:48-29:37| | Investigation & Interrogation | 30:05-34:30| | Trial – Prosecution & Defense Arguments | 34:30-47:00| | Verdict, Sentencing, Aftermath | 47:00-52:42| | Psychological & Moral Debate (Discussion) | 52:42-64:02|

Conclusion

The Sleepwalker Murder case challenges what we assume about accountability, consciousness, and the veneer of normalcy in everyday life. With insights from famed investigator Payne Lindsey, the episode navigates the complicated intersection of mental health, the justice system, and the trauma that ripples outwards from such tragedies. For listeners, it is a sobering meditation on the boundaries between intent, accident, and the unpredictable depths of the human mind.