Loading summary
Transcript187 lines
- [00:00]
A
Are you a professional pillow fighter or a 9 to 5 low cost time travel agent? Or maybe real estate sales on Mars is your profession? It doesn't matter. Whatever it is you do, however Complexplex or intricate, Monday.com can help you organize, orchestrate and make it more efficient. Monday.com is the 1 centralized platform for everything work related and with Monday.com work is just easier. Monday.com for whatever you run. Go to Monday.com to learn more. You guys, life doesn't happen biweekly, so why should Payday the money you earn can be in your hands today with earnin. Earnin is an app that gives you access to your pay as you work up to $100 per day or up to $750 per pay period. Just download the Earnin app and verify your paycheck. Then access up to $100 a day as you work and leave an optional tip. Any money you access plus tips are automatically repaid from your next paycheck.
- [00:59]
B
I think that, you know, sometimes you have unexpected rent or maybe you have a little dog you like Daisy and you need money last second. Earning is a great place to do that because you can get your paycheck early and you can go save your little doggy. Download earning today spelled E A R N I N in the Google Play or Apple App Store. When you download the Earn an app, type in Murder with My Husband under Podcast when you sign up. It really helps the show Murder with My Husband under podcast.
- [01:28]
A
Earnin is a financial technology company, not a bank. Subject to your available earnings Daily max pay period max and location. See earnin.com tos for details. Bank products are issued by Evolve bank and Trust member fdic. You're listening to an Ono Media podcast. Hey everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.
- [01:49]
B
And I'm Garrett Moreland.
- [01:50]
A
And he's the husband.
- [01:51]
B
I'm the husband.
- [01:52]
A
If you're watching on YouTube, yeah, I look like a goblin. No, we're not gonna talk about it, okay? I called the makeup this morning and they said not today. And I said, ugh, fine.
- [02:05]
B
Peyton looks great. Don't let her do that. Don't let her say that.
- [02:09]
A
Well, if you guys didn't know, we stream on Twitch and you really need to go check it out. We live stream on Twitch and we talk about all kinds of things and we spill the tea over there and we watch lots of videos. But my only reason I'm even telling you this is Twitch Chat tells me that my face card never declines so.
- [02:29]
B
You can always count on Twitch Chat. You know, your freeze card doesn't decline, baby.
- [02:34]
A
Twitch Chat is so nice.
- [02:36]
B
We stream on Tuesdays. Payton is a get ready with me, and we talk about, I don't know, random stuff like Payton says, tea Gossip Thursday. We talk about random stuff, but we also watch true crime videos. Sundays, cash kind of just casual hanging out.
- [02:51]
A
If you don't know what Twitch is, it's literally a platform to watch, livestream. And you can also watch video at the same time. So me and you can watch the same video, and then you can see Garrett and I react to it live. It's really cool. I really need you to go check it out.
- [03:10]
B
Plug it away, baby. Plug it.
- [03:12]
A
Cool. And while I'm plugging that, I also thought I would tell you guys that you literally need to pause what you're doing right now, stop what you are doing, and go follow. Follow Garrett and I on Instagram.
- [03:24]
B
Anything else?
- [03:26]
A
And into the Dark podcast and Murder with My Husband Podcast. You can literally mute us for all I care. You just need to follow. Okay? You just need to follow. We also post pictures that go with the podcasts. Okay. And other fun stuff.
- [03:41]
B
So it's true.
- [03:43]
A
It's not. This is. It's a. You know, this is the part of the podcast that sucks, but this is the part we have to do. Okay? So if you could just do it for me, and then I can report back to the people, the podcast gods, and be like, look. Look at this. Amazing.
- [03:58]
B
Okay, I'm gonna hop into my 10 seconds. We got pulled over this morning. Oh, and guess what? I didn't get a ticket. I didn't get no dang ticket. I'm not getting a ticket. You think I'm getting a ticket? I'm not getting a ticket. Didn't get a ticket. Got pulled over. Apparently I ran a stop sign. I don't know. Apparently I ran a stop sign where kids cross for school. I don't know. Don't ask me. I just said, cop came over. He said, hey, do you mind pulling you over? I said, no, I don't. And he said, you were in a stop sign. I didn't even argue. I said, okay. And he kind of looked at me for a second. I gave him my stuff. He went back to his motorcycle. Honestly, I hope he's not listening to this. But he kind of twiddled his thumbs for a little bit. They came back over and said, hey, are you okay with warning? I said, yes, I'm okay with warning. And he said, okay, you live Right around the corner, don't you? I said I do that. All right, well, just make sure you're careful, because there's kids crossing for school. It sounds good. And I went on my merry way.
- [05:03]
A
I don't want to make it sound like you blew through a stop sign at a kid's crossing.
- [05:06]
B
No, I didn't.
- [05:07]
A
He didn't make a complete stop.
- [05:09]
B
And debatable. I'll be honest. That's very, very, very debatable. Not gonna argue. Not gonna argue if the cop. It's. The reason I didn't get a ticket is because I don't argue. I just go. Yeah. Look, I'm just at the point now where I'm like, if you want to give me. To give me a ticket. If you don't, you don't. And for some reason, that energy always works for me, and I never get tickets, so I'm gonna keep that same energy. I didn't get a ticket. For anyone who saw on social media, we put up a poll. If I got a ticket, I didn't get a ticket. And I was pretty ecstatic about that. And now I'm gonna have to stop, start stopping at stop signs for, like, five to 10 seconds, make sure nothing bad happens. There's no kids crossing, and then I'm on my merry way. We also have illegal tent on our cars, so I did make sure to roll the windows down right when he was behind me, so we didn't get ticketed for that.
- [05:55]
A
I will say it's actually funny that you got pulled up. Not funny, but, like, interesting, because, like Garrett said, we do live right next to an elementary school, and we are very vigilant because kids walk to school right in front of our house. And so we are very vigilant about, like, backing up.
- [06:11]
B
Yeah.
- [06:12]
A
Making sure every single, like, crosswalk is safe. And so it's just kind of ironic that. That. That he pulled you over and said, there's kids crossing.
- [06:20]
B
I'm like. I see.
- [06:20]
A
When, like, we are literally so vigilant about it.
- [06:24]
B
I know. It was pretty funny. Yeah. I know it. I didn't, like, run a stop sign. I think it just maybe looked like I didn't stop long enough. And that's okay. I'll accept that.
- [06:33]
A
Okay. But can I just tell you guys something?
- [06:35]
B
Sure.
- [06:36]
A
There was a car in front of Garrett, and it's like a. It's like a. Like. Like a stop, and Garrett let a car go.
- [06:44]
B
I'm. I don't know. I'm not going to.
- [06:45]
A
Like, how do you not do A complete stop. If you waited for a car to go and then went, yeah, I don't know.
- [06:50]
B
I'm not going to argue because he didn't give me a ticket. So it's whatever. And look, we got to do our jobs. Everyone has to do their job. I understand.
- [06:58]
A
Hey, maybe he just thought you were cute.
- [07:00]
B
Maybe he thought I was cute, Pulled me over. You didn't tell me I was cute. That's okay. Next time.
- [07:04]
A
I mean, he kind of did, but honestly, do you want a warning?
- [07:07]
B
Honestly, he was pretty nice, so I give him props for that. And honestly, I. I'm saying honestly a lot, but I think it's also because I haven't gotten a ticket in six, seven years, so my record is actually lean.
- [07:20]
A
I think it's been like four. Because you got that ticket driving in the rain. Remember?
- [07:24]
B
That was like, five, six years ago, I think now. Oh, I know.
- [07:28]
A
Time's flying.
- [07:29]
B
Time's flying. Okay, let's hop into today's case. We love you all. Thank you for supporting. Thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. Thank you for downloading. Thank you for leaving a review.
- [07:38]
A
Thank you for following us on Instagram. Thank you for tuning into our Twitch streams.
- [07:41]
B
We love you guys. And we're going to tell you about a case.
- [07:44]
A
Our case sources for this episode are CBS News, Los Angeles County District's attorney's office, Deadline, CNN, the Guardian, ABC7 Law and Crime Network, LA Times, and Court TV. So, I mean, I think it's pretty obvious to say that connections are a big part of what makes life worth living. Like, the people around you, whether they're friends, family members, or romantic partners, they can bring joy. They can push you to try new things. They can support you, love you. But obviously, there can be a danger to letting people get too close to you. And when you let someone in, you're also vulnerable around them emotionally and physically. And Garrett and I have actually talked about this. It is absolutely kind of bonkers that, like, we just sleep in the same bed at night. Like, you could literally wake up and kill me. Like, I am the. In the most vulnerable position, but I am trusting another human being to not take advantage of that vulnerability. And, like, it. It's actually kind of bonkers. I see what you're saying, considering that, like, another human is the most dangerous thing for sure.
- [08:53]
B
But also, if you look at it from, like, percentage wise, the percentage of people who actually kill people, very, very low in considering how many people are in the world. So bonkers. Crazy. Yes. Statistically, less bonkers.
- [09:10]
A
Okay. But also, statistically, as a woman, you are the most dangerous person.
- [09:15]
B
Correct.
- [09:16]
A
For me.
- [09:16]
B
Again, statistically, the amount of men who kill their wives, really small percentage. Bonkers. Yes. Less bonkers? Yes.
- [09:24]
A
Anyways, I just think it is like, I think the trust that we put in other human beings, even if we love them and we think they're good people, like, at the end of the day, that is the most dangerous thing that you could be sleeping next to. So in today's story, we're going to talk about someone that took advantage of that kind of vulnerability, the vulnerability of letting people get a little too close to you. So on the night of Valentine's Day 2020, Michael Herman was asleep in his bedroom and he lived with his friend Amy Harwick, and she had kindly let him stay in her spacious three story house in Beverly Hills. So they are not dating, they're just friends. And Michael lived on the bottom floor, and Amy's bedroom was on the third floor. And the middle floor of the house was the common area, kitchen, living room. So basically, Amy, the owner of the house, had the top floor, her friend Michael had the bottom floor, and then they shared the middle floor.
- [10:33]
B
Okay.
- [10:33]
A
Anyway, so he must have been particularly tired that Valentine's day night in 2020, because he was already asleep at 7pm and at around that time, he abruptly woke up when he heard the sound of breaking glass come from the floor above. So he figured Amy had dropped a plate while she was getting dinner ready. I mean, it is only 7pm so it's not that weird this Amy would still be awake. So he thought nothing of it. He rolled over and he went back to sleep. And then he stayed in bed dreaming peacefully for six more hours. That was until just after one in the morning. And that was when he was woken up by an even more disturbing sound. This time it was a scream followed by a thump. It sounded like someone had fallen onto the ground. But again, Michael's first thought is, okay, nothing serious is going on. He figures Amy might have just been startled by something. Like she was upstairs, she was awake, slipped, fell, he. He doesn't know, but maybe it just made her yelp an alarm. So he sits there, he's like, he's not that worried. But then he hears it again and he realizes Amy is still screaming. Like she keeps continually screaming.
- [11:56]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [11:57]
A
So while Michael sat and listened, he heard some shouting. But then those shouts became muffled. And to him it sounded like Amy was yelling for help and someone was covering her mouth. And so Michael immediately is like, me and Amy Are not in this house alone. Not only had someone probably broken in, they were hurting his roommate Amy. So now Michael is terrified. He literally sitting here going, okay, do I run up and try to help Amy? And he's like, okay, first things first. I'm actually going to grab my cell phone and call 91 1. But he was too panicked to actually remember where he had left his cell phone. So for seconds, he is like frantically running around his room looking for his phone while his roommate is upstairs with muffled screams. And once it's clear that he's not going to find the phone, he begins shouting instead. And his hope was that if he began shouting, the intruder would hear him and scared, like, run away before Michael would even have to beat him or hurt him to try to get him off Amy.
- [13:04]
B
Which is the major reason why most people have alarm systems. Alarm systems don't. I mean, the response time is great, but the amount of people that an alarm goes off, cops come and see and actually catch the person very low. It's usually the alarm goes off. The robber goes, oh, crap.
- [13:22]
A
Nothing runs away exactly right. He's screaming, he's shouting, but he can still hear the thumping, the sounds of struggle. He is like, okay, this isn't stopping. Something terrible is happening to Amy, and he wasn't helping her at all by yelling from inside of his room. So finally he runs out into the hallway. He screamed obscenities up the stairwell, not that that did anything to stop the attack. And then instead of running upstairs, he sprints outside to go ask a neighbor, wake up a neighbor for help. But to get to the next house over, he actually had to jump a metal fence, and it cut his hands. But Michael was so desperate for help, he doesn't care. Like, he cuts up his hands, he keeps running. He gets to the neighbor's place, he knocks on the door, begging for them to come out, but nobody answers. Maybe they're dead asleep. Or perhaps they're just too afraid to come to the door when a man is knocking and screaming at them at 1am so when that doesn't work, he goes to another house. Except he also isn't let in. The minutes at this point are ticking by, like Michael's running around looking for help while Amy is probably still inside with this attacker. So finally, he actually sees a passing pedestrian in the middle of the night who's on their phone, and he runs over, he says, hey, someone's broken in my house. My roommate's in there. Can we please call 911? So the person uses their phone calls 911. And at this point, it is 1:11am And Michael has lost precious minutes just trying to track down a phone. But at this point, at least 911 has been called and emergency responders are on their way. And as soon as the police and the paramedics get there, they realize that at this point, Amy actually isn't inside her home anymore. She was badly hurt and she was lying on the ground outside the home. Specifically, she was beneath the third story balcony with injuries consistent from a fall from it.
- [15:21]
B
Wait, what?
- [15:22]
A
Yes. So she has fallen off the balcony and is now laying on the ground outside. So they load her up into the ambulance, they transport her to the hospital, but sadly, she only lives for about two more hours. And then she's finally pronounced dead at 3:26am and the cause of the death was not from falling off the balcony. Instead, she had severe injuries on her neck consistent with a strangling. So she had basically been strangled to death. But it just took a long time. Too much damage had been done, all of that. So right away, back at the house, the police are surveying the scene. They are trying to determine who had done this, who had attacked Amy and ultimately killed her.
- [16:05]
B
This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. It's sometimes hard to remind ourselves that we are trying our best to make sense of everything. And in this crazy world, that isn't easy. Here's a reminder to send some thanks to the people in your life, including yourself. Not up until recently. I mean, Peyton's always been a big advocate of therapy. And honestly, you think therapy up until I guess, a few months ago is super important. Something Peyton and I both do is something Peyton and I both love sometimes. But it's honestly, it's good to talk about your feelings. It is good to talk about what's going on inside your head. So don't forget that. And if you feel like you want to do therapy, give BetterHelp a try and see if it's for you. Therapy in general is just important.
- [16:48]
A
BetterHelp is entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. You just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can actually switch therapists at any time for no additional charge. So let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com husband today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H L P.com husband this episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice. Make another Smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try it@progressive.com, progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. So the second they set foot inside the house, they find that it has been trashed. There's blood everywhere. There's clear signs of a struggle. Her purse, jacket, and other personal items are thrown on the floor. Floor investigators also found a trail of beads that ran from her bedroom to the third story balcony, which she ultimately fell from. And they realized that this was a rosary that Amy had been wearing. And given that she was also strangled, the police actually think that the attacker had been strangling her with it at some point. And it broke during the attack. And then Amy must have gotten away from them, tried to escape, but instead, the broken rosary had left beads all the way to the balcony. Now, presumably, she went out there to get away from her attackers. So she either slipped, fell over, or was thrown over the edge of the balcony. And the most disturbing discovery actually might have been a syringe that was found in the house that was full of liquid. And at first, based on the color and consistency of the fluid, detectives are like, okay, we think that's heroin. But when they questioned Amy's friends and family, they were like, she doesn't use drugs. She'd never do heroin or even keep a syringe of it in her home. So the detectives still weren't sure. So they sent the syringe off to a lab to confirm what was in it. And when the test came back, they realized it was filled with liquid nicotine. Now, if you inject a large enough dose of nicotine into your body, it will actually kill you. It is highly lethal. So clearly, this wasn't something that Amy was probably using recreationally. Instead, they figured that Amy's killer had probably originally planned to inject the syringe in her to poison her.
- [19:33]
B
That seems so odd, though, Right?
- [19:37]
A
But in their mind, their theory is she probably fought off the attacker, knocked the syringe. They don't know, but it's just weird to find that at a murder scene. Right, and further searches showed that a set of glass French doors had also been shattered. But the police hadn't realized this right away because whoever broke the doors down positioned them so the break wasn't actually visible from the outside. So the assumption was that when Michael heard glass breaking at 7pm that was actually the sound of someone breaking those glass doors. And Amy hadn't been home at that Time, she wasn't home at 7. Michael didn't know that, but she had spent the evening out with friends. So actually at 7, when the glass doors were being broken in her home, presumably because that's what Michael said. She had been watching the opening number for a burlesque show. So after the show was over, she went to get a late night tea with her friends, and they stayed at the restaurant until about midnight.
- [20:38]
B
I am so confused about the fact that this guy broke in supposedly five hours before she even came home and.
- [20:48]
A
Stayed in there while someone was asleep in the bottom floor.
- [20:52]
B
Yeah, I don't know.
- [20:53]
A
That's creepy.
- [20:54]
B
Yeah, it's insane. It's insane.
- [20:56]
A
So she actually doesn't get home until 1:02am she parks her car out front of her house, and she sends a text to one of those friends, and she reminds the friend to forward some photos that they'd taken at the show. And then she goes inside, failing to notice the broken doors. And just six minutes later, give or take, Michael wakes up to the sounds of her screams. And then obviously, he places the 911 call at 1:11am so she sends that text at 1:02am and then he's calling the police at 1:11. Meaning only nine minutes passed from the time that Amy got home until the police and ambulances were called. So it all happened very quickly. So based on all of this, the detectives figured that between 7pm and a little after 1am the intruder must have sat in the house and waited for Amy.
- [21:49]
B
Holy crap.
- [21:50]
A
Which that's not going to happen. If this is an ordinary burglary, this means that someone was targeting Amy. They were waiting for her. They laid in wait for her to get home. Her bed was also unmade. Even though Amy had only gotten back a short while before the attack, she clearly hadn't gone to sleep in those nine minutes. And the people who knew her knew that she always made her bed. So the police actually think that the killer who broke in was tired and laid in her bed waiting for her.
- [22:20]
B
Okay.
- [22:20]
A
And as soon as she got home and stepped into her room, the killer was waiting and attacked her. So this means this murder was clearly premeditated, not only because the killer had broken into her bedroom and waited in her bed, but also because they had apparently tampered with a neighbor's ring camera so they wouldn't be caught on camera. So the police go to the neighbors and are like, hey, can we, like, check your ring camera? And they say, sure. And they pull it up and what they see is earlier that night, someone walks up wearing a glove, covers the camera very sneakily, and then disconnects the ring.
- [22:56]
B
Doorbell Isn't. Didn't. Wasn't he already caught on camera going up to the camera? Was he dressed and covered from head to head to toe? Do you know? Does that make sense?
- [23:07]
A
No. I think the way they went up to the door made it impossible to identify them. They had just kind of snuck around to the camera. Obviously, this means it wouldn't record them actually going into Amy's house. Unfortunately, the intruder knew what they were doing. Although, like I said, their face does appear on the footage. It's only for a brief moment because they kind of worked around it and they weren't in focus. And since the ring didn't record anything after it was deactivated, there's no way to actually identify them. So after a very brief investigation, the police thought they actually understood how Amy had died, but they still didn't know who had done it. So to answer that question, they decide to look into Amy's past, just like any detective would. She'd grown up in a small town in Pennsylvania, but Amy's personality was always bigger than her humble beginnings. She was a bit of a daredevil who skipped class. She wasn't afraid to stir the pot. And this may have been because it took her a while to actually find her place in the world. She grew up in a series of different foster home homes before she was adopted. And as she got older, she felt fiercely protective of other misfits. She would seek out classmates who were going through hard times, just needed a friend, and she'd find a way to be there for them. And then after graduation, she moved to la, where she wanted to become a counselor to help people with mental health problems and to pay her way through school, she actually became an adult dancer. She tended at a bar, and at some point, she even modeled for Playboy. And that's just who she was. Someone who didn't let the world tell her what kind of life she was allowed to leave. She was like, I will model and do what I can to pay for school so that I can help people. And when she got her degree as a counselor, she decided that she wanted to work with people who didn't have a lot of support and resources. Namely, she actually wanted to work with sex workers. In particular, she specialized in offering counseling for adult film performers, which there were a lot of, given that she was based in Los Angeles. And since a lot of sex workers couldn't afford mental health care on their own, she wanted to get very involved in the nonprofit world. Amy wanted to make sure that there were always the funds to help the people who needed her services. All to say, Amy did work that a lot of counselors wouldn't even consider doing. And she was outspoken and proud of what she did. She became an advocate. The good news was that the world was ready to hear what she had to say. And before long, her YouTube channel was taking off, and she was lining up book deals to talk about the intersection of sex and mental health.
- [25:48]
B
YouTube.
- [25:49]
A
Right. I mean, we are in 2020. And even as her career was heating up, so was her love life. Amy had her share of flings and relationships. One was with a man named Gareth Purse House. The two of them met and began seeing each other in 2010 when Amy was in her late twenties. Gareth was in his mid thirties. Their relationship lasted for about a year and a half, and during that time, it was serious. They lived together before ultimately breaking up in 2012. And then a few years after that, in 2017, Amy began seeing a famous Hollywood celebrity named Drew Carey. And like I mentioned before, wow. Amy had tended bars.
- [26:28]
B
That's a big deal.
- [26:28]
A
Yeah. To pay her way through college. And over a decade later, even after she'd become a well known therapist, she would still actually pick up occasional bartending gigs here and there. And one night in 2017, she agreed to work at a fancy party full of celebrities. And as soon as Drew walked into the room, he had his eyes on her. They began talking. Drew asked Amy out. She said yes. For their first date, Drew Carey took Amy to Disneyland.
- [26:53]
B
Disneyland.
- [26:53]
A
And they got to know one another at the most magical place on earth, only to have a truly magical relationship. They fell in Love in 2018. A year later, Drew brought Amy onto an episode of the Price is Right to publicly announce that they were engaged. He proposed. Amy said yes. But sadly, Amy and Drew never made it to the altar. They were both private about their relationship, and they haven't publicly spoken about why they ultimately broke off the engagement. But Drew did drop some hints in an interview with CBS News, suggesting that Amy was concerned that marrying a famous celebrity would hurt her career. It was hard to make her clients feel safe and like their work would be confidential if her face was also, like, appearing with Drew at times.
- [27:36]
B
Okay, I could see that.
- [27:37]
A
I'm not sure if that's the main reason that the couple called it quits. What I do know is that they didn't just call off the wedding. They also decided to go their separate ways to break up. Amy and Drew agreed to stay friends and keep in touch. Now, breakups are rarely easy, and that was the case for Amy, too. She dated several men. And when these relationships ended, there was often pain, regret, hurt feelings. But one of Amy's exes took their breakup especially hard. And it wasn't Drew Carey. It was the one back in 2011. 2012. Gareth.
- [28:08]
B
Oh, my gosh. Garrett sounds too close to my name. I can't say it.
- [28:13]
A
And the reason she broke up with him was because he had been violent while they were dating. And I'm not talking about a one off incident. Multiple times. Gareth hurt Amy badly enough to leave visible bruises.
- [28:28]
B
Yeah, okay.
- [28:29]
A
He was very controlling. He didn't like Amy to go out with her friends, have any kind of life outside of him. Now, Amy knew enough to understand this wasn't a good situation. But like I mentioned before, she was passionate about helping outsiders and people who didn't feel like they fit in. And even though she knew she didn't deserve to be treated like this, she is a fixer. Like, she wanted to help Gareth. She thought that if she stayed in his life, she'd be able to show him, you know, how to defeat his demons and become a better version of himself.
- [29:00]
B
The amount of people that hit people to solve their issues blows my mind.
- [29:04]
A
Blows my mind.
- [29:04]
B
It's just. I mean, it's horrible, obviously, but it's also so immature. It just. It's just immature because you don't know how to control your emotions. You don't know how to control yourself. And so the first thing you can think of is violence. And it just bugs me. Bugs me a lot.
- [29:20]
A
So the thing we do know is that nobody can make anyone else change. I mean, you can try. But eventually, Amy realized she wasn't actually helping Gareth. All she was doing was staying in a bad relationship. So finally, when the abuse got too severe for her to tolerate, she left him, apparently. This is gonna be shocking. But Gareth wasn't willing to accept that things between them were actually over. So he began stalking Amy.
- [29:46]
B
Insane.
- [29:47]
A
He approached their mutual friends, demanded that they give him updates on everywhere Amy went, who she was going out with.
- [29:54]
B
What a freak. What a loser. Lots of words.
- [29:57]
A
I mean, based on the way he treated her in their relationship, it's not surprising that this is how he's acting. After their relationship, some of the friends refused to help Gareth. They knew that the things he was asking for weren't reasonable. And when those friends told Gareth that they weren't going to help him harass Amy, he cut them out of his life, which meant he was becoming increasingly obsessive. And there weren't many people around him that knew Amy. That could keep him in check. Now, in 2012, not long after the breakup, Amy was basically forced to file a restraining order against Gareth. And then when it expired, she filed another one. And the second one lasted until 2015. And you might think by that point, three years had gone by. Gareth must have moved on. But Amy was never entirely sure if that was true. See, in 2016, someone broke into her house, stole all of her photo albums and her laptop, which is not like a normal burglary other than the computer. The intruder didn't take anything of financial value. It just doesn't make sense. And Amy was convinced. She told multiple people. This was definitely Gary.
- [31:07]
B
100%. 100%.
- [31:08]
A
But since she didn't have any proof, she couldn't take legal action against him. She also had a problem with her online accounts. She had trolls, obviously. Whenever she posted a new YouTube video or made social media posts to promote her work, people would make insulting, negative comments. This is a normal part of online discourse, unfortunately. But occasionally, the comments were so personal and targeted that Amy was like, how do they know this is this Gareth? Yeah, like, hiding behind these troll accounts. Whoever had written them understood exactly what to say. And again, she's thinking it's him. But since she couldn't prove it, there was nothing she could do. And even by 2018, this is six years after the breakup, Gareth is still apparently obsessed with Amy. Around that time, anonymous users began review bombing her therapy business. And she was convinced that Gareth was the one making all of these negative reviews. He was trying to scare off potential new customers. Except she doesn't have proof. Like, this is just suspicions. And this is the awful part about stalking. It feels like there's nothing you can legally do.
- [32:15]
B
Dude, I swear. Sorry, I had to adjust myself in my chair because I'm getting serious. If someone tried to stalk me or pay in, oh, I. I will kill you. I don't care. Don't cut that. Do not cut that out. Do not even get. Don't cut it out.
- [32:31]
A
It's so dangerous.
- [32:32]
B
It's so dangerous. It's insane. It's insane.
- [32:36]
A
And you can literally just ruin someone's life without any penalty. No. No pushback at all.
- [32:42]
B
Yeah, I will figure it out.
- [32:44]
A
So by 2020, Amy may have believed that she finally had Gareth out of her life. She actually hadn't heard from him for a while. Nothing bad had kind of been happening randomly in her life. That she could credit to him. It must have seemed like after all these years, he'd finally gave up. But that all changed at the X Biz Awards, which are a ceremony to honor people in the adult film industry. And after all these years, Amy was still very involved with sex workers and adult film performers. So she'd become kind of high profile enough that she got an invite to come to the gala as a guest.
- [33:18]
B
Oh, wow.
- [33:19]
A
And it was a good opportunity to network with potential clients. And of course, Amy loves a good party. She was especially excited because she'd get to walk down a red carpet to get inside. And Amy loved this stuff. She loved the glitz, the glamour, dressing up, having her picture taken. So the red carpet was a real highlight of the event. Except Amy didn't realize that Gareth had been hired to work at the ceremony as a photographer.
- [33:44]
B
Holy.
- [33:46]
A
So she's in line, waiting for a chance to walk red carpet.
- [33:49]
B
So creepy.
- [33:50]
A
When she sees him walk past her with a camera. And in an instant, she is. She's devastated. All of her excitement disappears.
- [33:59]
B
So sad.
- [34:00]
A
She looks away, hoping he didn't see her. It's too late, because this probably isn't by chance that he's working this event. As soon as Gareth turned his head and saw Amy in the line, he ran up to her and he screamed at her, causing a scene, saying, you've ruined my life. He calls her a slur. And then he accused Amy of cheating on him, but not while they were together. He apparently thinks that she moved on too soon after their breakup. And he took this to mean that she was cheating on him because it was too soon after they broke up. This is eight years later.
- [34:36]
B
Yeah.
- [34:36]
A
And he does this. He still had old text messages from the time memorized. He recited them to her without looking at his phone. He's like, well, remember when you texted me this and said I'm. Verbatim text from eight years ago. He was laying out all the evidence in his mind that she had betrayed him, that she was a bad girlfriend to him. And this is at full volume in front of everyone. You guys know I love Quint's clothing. And with the holidays coming up. Dang. Is it a good gift to give yourself or someone else? Something everyone needs in their closet, in my opinion, is Quince's iconic Mongolian cashmere sweaters that start at $50. And the reason they're able to do that is because they partner directly with top factories. That cut out the cost of the middleman, which passes the savings on to you. I have told you guys a thousand times that their silk skirts. The long version and the short version are my favorite black skirts and I wear them at least once a week. Quint is on the nice list. They only work with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices. Gift luxury this holiday season without the luxury price tag. Go to quince.com husband for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q u I n c e.com husband to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com husband have you guys heard of LAL? LAL is laser assisted lipo and the results from LAL are incredible. I've been looking at before and afters from Sono Bello and these women honestly look incredible. Our friends at Sono Bello are offering you their best dill. You're now included in their friends and family fall savings event. You'll get the same price that Sono Bello doctors, nurses and staff receive. But appointments are limited. So please get on this. Sono Bello doctors are masters in microlaser fat removal. A brilliant technique that removes stubborn fat fat permanently wherever your problem areas. Tummy, love handles, thighs, arms. It's gone in one comfortable visit. Eating healthy and workouts are great. Keep doing that. But if you want to lose that stubborn fat in one visit, check out.
- [36:46]
B
Sono Bello Save Big during Sono Bello's Friends and family fall savings event. Schedule your free consultation now@sonobello.com husband that's sono b-l o.com husband so Gareth is.
- [37:00]
A
Obviously making a scene. He's crying, he's shouting, he's drawing attention to him and Amy and other people at the event just stare. I mean, this is very awkward. It was incredibly alarming and upsetting for Amy. She was so embarrassed. I mean she's like been invited as a guest to this gala. That is the exact industry that she is trying to network and be taken seriously in. And this is what happens.
- [37:25]
B
Stalking is so hard. I mean, we've covered so many cases where it's so difficult to pinpoint something before something bad happens. Does that make sense?
- [37:36]
A
And even if you do the best they can be like is we'll just get a restraining order. Restraining orders don't do anything.
- [37:42]
B
Yeah, you can go into witness protection program, but then that sucks because you lose your life.
- [37:47]
A
Right? That's what I'm saying. It ruins people's lives.
- [37:50]
B
So we're just gonna have to start killing all the. I'm just kidding. But in all reality, it's It's.
- [37:56]
A
It's awful.
- [37:56]
B
It's kind of like. It's gaslighting, right? It's all these little things that just happen.
- [38:00]
A
It's like. Like over time, not that big.
- [38:03]
B
And then all of a sudden, boom. They kill you.
- [38:05]
A
And then the police are like, oh.
- [38:07]
B
Oh, what? Like, I don't know.
- [38:08]
A
I don't know. She took out eight restraining orders on him and called you guys 800 times.
- [38:12]
B
But I don't know what.
- [38:13]
A
There's nothing legally to do.
- [38:15]
B
I don't know what you're supposed to do about it. It's very difficult.
- [38:17]
A
So Amy's like, I'm just gonna walk away, remove myself from the situation. But Gareth begins following her. He's yelling at her. He's calling her a hypocrite. He's shaming her for being at an adult industry event, one that he's working. He's like you. He's calling her slurs for being there in public.
- [38:33]
B
Just out there.
- [38:34]
A
Yes, yes. So Amy turns around and she tries to calm him down. She's like, this is not good. This is a scene. She's literally just trying to deescalate the situation. She wants to try to find a way. She thinks, if I can talk to him, he'll calm down. It was kind of a part of the pattern I mentioned earlier. She tended to put Gareth's comfort first ahead of her own sense of well being or safety. So once Gareth had finished yelling at her about what a terrible person she was, he collapsed on the ground in front of everyone, and he curls up into a fetal position.
- [39:06]
B
Wow. Okay.
- [39:07]
A
So Amy bends down. She's like, gareth, get up. Let's just go talk in privacy. And I say relative, because she made sure there were security guards with them when they went to go talk in private. They found a quiet corner where the other attendees couldn't watch. And For a full 45 minutes, Amy sits and talks to Gareth about his feelings. She goes full on therapist mode, which you try to de escalate the situation, taking away from her night, her special night that she was so excited for, to tend to his needs.
- [39:43]
B
I don't. I am in no way. This is no way her fault, blaming her. But I know we've covered a couple cases, and don't they say that once you start talking to a stalker, too, like, it just supposedly makes it worse?
- [39:54]
A
Do you want to know the next line of my research?
- [39:58]
B
Yes, I do.
- [39:59]
A
Now, experts say this is the worst.
- [40:02]
B
Thing you can do, which she doesn't know. She's trying to de escalate she's trying to help. It's annoy her fault.
- [40:08]
A
But she's also a therapist. She's a therapist.
- [40:11]
B
It just sucks. But I have heard that the experts have said that the worst thing you.
- [40:15]
A
Can do is engage.
- [40:16]
B
Once you give them a little bit of attention, they take. They take a freaking mild.
- [40:20]
A
Yeah. Talking to a stalker at all or trying to reason with them, it could encourage their delusions. I'm not saying to victim blaming me. I'm literally saying everything. Garrett just said she wanted to help. Like genuinely. She's a good, kind person.
- [40:34]
B
So sad.
- [40:34]
A
She still cared about him. Like he had just called her slurs and yelled at her and made this huge scene and embarrassed her.
- [40:40]
B
And she tried to help him.
- [40:41]
A
Yes. But sadly, obviously he does not care about her feelings or her well being at all. And Amy apparently understood this because she was deeply unsettled after calming Gareth down. She had planned to have a big night. She was going to go to the ceremony, then hit after parties. Instead, she was so shaken by the confrontation that she canceled her plans. She and another attendee went out to dinner where she told her friend the full story about Gareth, how he'd been harassing her. She just needed to talk about it like it was traumatic for her. Amy wanted her friend to understand the entire context because she just had a sense in that moment that because of what had just happened, her running into Gareth was now going to mean that he was going to be a problem for her again. She wanted her friends to know how scared and uncomfortable she was. Her dinner companion was so worried on Amy's behalf that he actually offered to spend the night at her house, help her feel safe. She declined. She reminded him, no, I have a roommate, Michael. She trusted Michael to be able to handle the situation if anything were to happen. But clearly she still wasn't feeling that secure. Because early the next morning at around 3am, Amy sent an email to more friends. And she just said, I just want to tell you guys every. I want to document everything that happened tonight in detail. Record, you know, create a record and paper trail in case I ever need to go to court. Like, I think I need to start documenting every detail so I can prove that he's stalking me and how crazy it is. So it was right for her to worry because after this confrontation, Gareth's obsession came back full force. He found her phone number online. Presumably Amy had to change her number after the breakup, but somehow, the day after the event, he texted her to let her know that he had tracked her down. Gareth Also asked Amy if there was any chance they could get back together. Could she go on a date with him? Amy wrote back a kind message, let him down gently, staying firm. You know, we're not back together, but I understand your pain. She was respectful. But Gareth clearly was not interested in respecting her or her boundaries. Because when she did this, he sent abusive replies attacking her for not giving him another chance. Said he can't let go of the idea that they're soul mates. They're meant to be together. Basically, no matter how much she said no, he didn't care.
- [42:56]
B
I just want to hit my head. Why are people.
- [42:59]
A
Yes, problems.
- [43:00]
B
Why man? Like, ugh.
- [43:02]
A
So over the course of the next few weeks, Amy installed a new security system. She told her friends she was going to be buying pepper spray. She asked. They set up the Find my friends apps so they would always know each other's location. It was like she was convinced that, like, something was bad was going to happen.
- [43:19]
B
She was right.
- [43:20]
A
And before her attack, she even texted a friend and said, hey, if anything happens to me, it's Gareth, okay? Like, it was Gareth 100. I'm scared for my life, and you need to tell people it was him. And the most disturbing detail might be a call that she made to her parents in late January or early February of 2020, right before the attack. Completely out of the blue, one day, she reached out to them to tell them, hey, if something happens to me, like, if I die, this is what I want the steps after my death to be. She basically lays them out. Here's what I want for my funeral. This is what I want you to do with this, this, this, this. She said, I want an open casket. I want this type of headstone. Like, she's like, I'm just taking. Like, I'm. I'm just taking care of things. And then two weeks later, her parents get a phone call saying, hey, she's dead.
- [44:08]
B
Okay?
- [44:09]
A
Her parents then had the grim task of taking those things that they. That Amy had told them and making it a reality. So as soon as the police learned about Amy's history, they're like, okay, let's go find Gareth. Like, we don't even need to do anything else. They began by looking at the broken glass on the shattered French doors. There were trace amounts of blood, as though whoever had broke in cut themselves. They compared those trace amounts of blood to Gareth's DNA and a performance match. It's a match. They also called in some of Gareth's friends to look at that ring camera footage. Like, maybe since they now have a face, could someone make him out? Even when he, like, covers the camera, you can obviously still see his body. That is actually.
- [44:48]
B
It just looks like him.
- [44:49]
A
Yeah. And the friends were like, yeah. I mean, it's his body language, it's his posture, it's his build. So finally, the police search Gareth's house. They find a syringe in it. And the syringe is very similar to the one that was at Amy's house, as though he'd bought a set and had just kept the spares at his house. So this is enough that on February 15, literally the same day that Amy dies, Gareth is arrested and charged with first degree murder because all of her friends, like, the second the news gets out that she's dying, every friend is like, go like, it's him 100%. Now, during the trial, Gareth's lawyers used an interesting strategy. They knew they could not deny the fact that he'd broken into Amy's house because of the syringe, because of the blood, all of that.
- [45:30]
B
I don't under. This is a topic for another time. I don't know. I don't know if I want to get into it right now. I'm just confused. And I. I'm sure a legal expert could explain it to me, and I would still be confused and still be annoyed. It's just. He obviously killed her. And I get that everyone gets a right to a fair trial. I just, you know, do you know. Do you understand what I'm saying? Why are we. Mason. Why are we wasting money and resources when it was him? And I get it. Because there are people who. Innocent. Who are innocent 100%. It's just frustrating wasting all this money and resources when he did kill someone. And they're trying to figure out, well, how can we get around it? How can we pretend he didn't kill her? Oh, it's just the Jed. And there isn't a perfect way to do the justice system. Like, there isn't a. I mean, everyone.
- [46:18]
A
Needs a defense, but it's hard when you know they're lying.
- [46:21]
B
It's just. It's. It's difficult. And I feel like, in general, America does have a. I mean, compared to the rest of the world, we have a. A pretty decent justice system. So it's just hard. There isn't a perfect way.
- [46:34]
A
Still so messed up.
- [46:35]
B
It's still so messed up. It's just frustrating because unless there's something that can tell if we're 100 lying, like, I don't know it.
- [46:46]
A
Yeah.
- [46:46]
B
Well, I'll stop here. We can keep going with the case.
- [46:48]
A
So what they say is, yes, Gareth did break into the house, but he didn't go there to murder her. He was trying to talk he some feelings that he wanted to talk through. And he said. They said, yeah, he did bring the nicotine with him, but he only did that because he was planning on taking his own life. They said he was so disturbed and upset that he broke into his ex girlfriend's house so he could kill himself in front of her, which, again, is so manipulative. But whatever. Supposedly, after Gareth broke in, he had a change of heart and he left. He didn't hurt her.
- [47:22]
B
Oh, my God.
- [47:22]
A
He wasn't violent. And then Gareth says he never even saw her. And then when he left, someone else coincidentally snuck in the house the exact same night and wanted to hurt Amy. And since Gareth had broken down the door already, they just seized the opportunity, broke in through it after him. And he had nothing to do with the murder.
- [47:40]
B
I mean, that's the best defense they could probably come up with. So I don't blame them.
- [47:45]
A
Needless to say, this did not resonate with the jury. They seem to agree with the prosecution, who argued that Gareth had killed Amy to punish her for rejecting him. He just couldn't handle the word no. So on September 23, 2023, he was found guilty of murder and sentenced to life in prison.
- [48:02]
B
Good.
- [48:02]
A
Without the possibility of parole. Okay, now the most tragic part of this entire story may be that Amy only ever wanted to help people.
- [48:12]
B
Yep.
- [48:12]
A
Like her legacy in this world, her footprint was helping so many people, she became a counselor so she could support some of the most vulnerable people in society. And even after Gareth stalked her, stole from her, threatened her, harassed her, ruined her life, she still tried to help him too. And sadly, he took advantage of that. He took advantage of her desire to help people, and then he took away her life. And that is the story of Amy Harwick.
- [48:47]
B
So tragic. So much to say. It's just. Yeah, stalking, like I said earlier, in the middle of the case, very hard to deal with. Heartbreaking.
- [48:55]
A
I think that Amy should definitely be remembered for all of the good that she did. And I hope that we can honor her for that today. And we will see you next time with another episode. I love it.
- [49:09]
B
I hate it.
- [49:10]
A
Goodbye. Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds.
- [49:20]
B
Recently, I asked Mint Mobile's legal team.
- [49:22]
A
If big wireless companies are allowed to raise prices due to inflation, they said yes. And then when I asked if raising.
- [49:28]
B
Prices technically violates those onerous two year contracts they said. What the are you talking about?
- [49:34]
A
You insane Hollywood So to recap, we're cutting the price of mint unlimited from.
- [49:38]
B
$30 a month to just $15 a month.
- [49:41]
A
Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch $45 up front payment equivalent to $15 per month New customers on first 3 month plan only Taxes and fees Extra speeds lower above 40 gigabyte. C details.