242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo

Summary

Podcast Summary: Murder With My Husband - Episode 242: Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermaine Charlo

Podcast Information:

• Title: Murder With My Husband
• Host/Author: OH NO MEDIA
• Episode: 242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermaine Charlo
• Release Date: November 11, 2024

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Introduction

In Episode 242 of Murder With My Husband, hosts Peyton and Garrett Moreland delve into the mysterious disappearance of Jermaine Charlo, a young Indigenous woman from the Flathead Reservation in Montana. This episode sheds light on the systemic issues surrounding Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women (MMIW) cases, highlighting the challenges families face in seeking justice.

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Background on Jermaine Charlo

Jermaine Charlo was born on April 23, 1995, and grew up in the Flathead Reservation, approximately 40 miles outside of Missoula, Montana. Raised primarily by her single mother, Jermaine was deeply connected to her community, excelling in artistic pursuits and outdoor activities. Her dreams included attending the Institute of American Indian Arts in New Mexico to blend her cultural heritage with her talents.

From an early age, Jermaine faced personal challenges. At 14, she began a relationship with Michael Defrance, a 16-year-old non-tribal citizen. This relationship would later become a significant factor in her disappearance.

“It's crazy how fast time can go and all of a sudden you're like, whoa, we haven't taken pictures together in X amount of years. The time just flies by as you start working and, I don't know, real life hits you and pain.” — Garrett Moreland [02:34]

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Events Leading to Disappearance

Despite numerous domestic issues, Jermaine prioritized her role as a mother to her two sons, often working multiple jobs to support her family. By 2018, after attempting to pursue her artistic dreams, Jermaine was involved in escalating conflicts with Michael.

On June 15, 2018, Jermaine was last seen leaving a night out in Missoula. She visited three bars: Dark Horse, Golden Rose, and Badlander. While she appeared to be enjoying her evening, a bartender at Badlander noticed Jermaine was accompanied by a man who persistently followed her throughout the night.

“It's almost as if Jermaine is trying to shake that man that's following her... they can't really catch up with her pace.” — Peyton Moreland [20:06]

After leaving the bars, Jermaine was seen talking to a group outside Badlander. Later that night, her cell phone stopped communicating, and she failed to return home, prompting immediate concern from her family.

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Police Investigation

Jermaine's disappearance initially received a lukewarm response from law enforcement. The Flathead Reservations Tribal Police Department directed the family to the Missoula Police, where they faced significant delays:

• June 19: Family files a missing person's report.
• June 20: Report officially logged.
• June 21: Detective assigned to the case goes on vacation, leaving the report unattended for five days.

“If you know anything about missing persons cases, the first 40 hours... two days are the most crucial.” — Michael Defrance [13:24]

It wasn't until June 26, nearly ten days after Jermaine vanished, that the Missoula police began investigating the case more thoroughly. This delay severely hindered the chances of locating Jermaine or uncovering immediate evidence.

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Michael Defrance's History and Involvement

Michael Defrance, Jermaine's ex-boyfriend and the father of her two sons, became a person of interest due to his persistent presence the night Jermaine disappeared. Their tumultuous relationship was marred by multiple instances of domestic violence:

• 2013: Michael assaulted Jermaine, resulting in three punches. He pled guilty, received fines, and was mandated to attend domestic violence treatment. “We don't solve problems with violence.” — Michael Defrance [22:58]

• 2014: Repeat assaults occurred, including throwing Jermaine onto a van hood and spitting on her. Despite multiple reports, legal consequences were minimal, often classifying incidents as civil rather than criminal.

• 2017-2018: Escalation continued, culminating in a custody battle where Michael was awarded primary custody due to his legal representation, despite his abusive history. Jermaine was left with limited visitation rights and substantial child support obligations.

When questioned by police, Michael provided a shaky alibi, claiming Jermaine intended to stay with a friend named Cassidy. However, investigations revealed inconsistencies:

• Cassidy's Identity: Police could not verify anyone by that name related to Jermaine.

• Cell Phone Evidence: Jermaine's phone pinged near Michael's residence hours after her disappearance, contradicting his statement. Michael admitted to discarding the phone near mile marker 94 on Highway 12, but no device was found there.

“It's too late. I think he did it.” — Garrett Moreland [38:15]

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Community Response and Media Influence

Jermaine's family and community took proactive steps to locate her, including organizing volunteer searches across the vast and rugged Flathead Reservation. However, the challenging terrain and limited resources made these efforts daunting.

In March 2021, Connie Walker, an Indigenous Cree reporter from the Okinese First Nation in Saskatchewan, Canada, launched a podcast titled Stolen: The Search for Jermaine. Her investigative work brought national attention to Jermaine's case, increasing pressure on local authorities to take concrete actions.

By July 2021, sustained public attention led to Michael Defrance's arrest, not for Jermaine's disappearance directly, but for possession of firearms—an offense from which he should have been legally barred.

“It's insane because they just don't want to... nothing has been found yet.” — Peyton Moreland [38:31]

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Current Status and Conclusion

As of the episode's release in November 2024, Jermaine Charlo remains missing, with no body discovered and limited evidence tying Michael Defrance directly to her disappearance. Michael was sentenced to 21 months in prison for firearm possession but has yet to serve the full term due to an ongoing appeal.

The case underscores the systemic neglect faced by MMIW cases, where delays and lack of urgency often result in unresolved investigations. Jermaine's aunt, Valinda, emphasizes the historical and ongoing struggles of Indigenous communities with such tragedies, stating:

“MMIW isn't something that just started. It honestly has happened since colonization and we've all kept so quiet about it.” — Valinda [42:22]

Peyton and Garrett Moreland conclude the episode by urging listeners to remain vigilant and proactive in supporting MMIW cases, emphasizing the importance of community awareness and media involvement in driving change.

For those with information on Jermaine Charlo's disappearance, listeners are encouraged to contact the Missoula Police Department at 406-396-3217.

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Notable Quotes

• “We don’t solve problems with violence.” — Michael Defrance [22:58]

• “If you know anything about missing persons cases, the first 40 hours... two days are the most crucial.” — Michael Defrance [13:24]

• “MMIW isn't something that just started. It honestly has happened since colonization and we've all kept so quiet about it.” — Jermaine's Aunt Valinda [42:22]

• “It's too late. I think he did it.” — Garrett Moreland [38:15]

---

Impact and Reflection

The episode of Murder With My Husband poignantly highlights the intersection of personal tragedy and systemic failure. Jermaine Charlo's case serves as a stark reminder of the urgent need to address the pervasive issues surrounding Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women, advocating for better support systems, timely investigations, and persistent community engagement to prevent further injustices.

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Transcript

[Peyton Moreland]

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[Michael Defrance]

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[Michael Defrance]

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[Peyton Moreland]

You're listening to an Onomedia podcast. Hey everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with my husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.

[Michael Defrance]

And I'm Garrett Moreland.

[Peyton Moreland]

And he's the husband.

[Michael Defrance]

And I'm the husband. If you're watching on YouTube, I feel like I look very corporate or like professional with this coffee in my hand. My legs. One of my legs crossed.

[Peyton Moreland]

Don't spill it.

[Michael Defrance]

Cheers. Thank you for being here. We love you all. If you want bonus content and ad free content, do not forget to subscribe to Apple subscriptions, Patreon, Spotify subscriptions. We have it all. You will get two bonus episodes each month and ad free content. But again, thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. Thank you for supporting. Thank you for following. Thank you for downloading. We love you guys. We would not be here doing this podcast without you guys. And we love that you like listening to our content.

[Peyton Moreland]

You got your 10 seconds?

[Michael Defrance]

No, I don't. But I will think of one right now. Peyton and I took pictures basically for the first time together. In since we got engaged. Eight years, eight and a half years, nine years, something somewhere between eight and nine years. We're both on the same page about that. So no harm, no foul. But yeah, it's been a while since we took pictures and Peyton and I went and took pictures. We just got them back. We love them. They turned out really good. I'm sure Peyton will post some of them. But it was, I know, it was kind of crazy. It's crazy how fast time can go and all of a sudden you're like, whoa, we haven't taken pictures together in X amount of years. The time just flies by as you start working and, I don't know, real life hits you and pain. I don't even have kids, so I can't imagine when you have kids, like, time just starts flying by. I don't know. I guess that's my 10 seconds. It's more of a chill 10 seconds. I was just thinking about that the other day.

[Peyton Moreland]

Our sources for this episode are dailymail.com uncovered.com kpax.com thesun.com CBS News dailymontanan.com greatfallstribune.com oxygen.com indianlaw.org GBV Learning Network.ca rollingstone.com new yorker.com katie couric.com vogue.com and native hope.org In 2016, the National Crime Information Reporting center released a staggering statistic. That year, there were 5,712 missing women and girls from the American Indian and Alaska Native community. However, only 116 of those cases were logged in the US Department of Justice's database. This community of women is 12 times more likely to be murdered and go missing than any other demographic in the US And Canada. I mean, think about that. That is a scary number.

[Michael Defrance]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

And while we've covered murdered and missing indigenous women's cases in the past, today's story is a perfect example of why we have a lot of progress to make as a nation. Because over 4,000 of these cases have run cold. And they manage to do so even when officials have a pretty good lead on a primary suspect. Which is why Jermaine Charlot's case is one that will leave you asking, what do we have to do to start getting justice for these MMIW women? So today we're headed to Montana, to the Flathead Reservation. This is about 40 miles outside of Missoula. This is where Jermaine Charlo, a member of the Confederated Salish and Kootenay Tribe, grows up. Now, on the reservation, the phrase it Takes a village was taken pretty literally. So when Jermain was born on April 23, 1995, everyone from her grandparents to her cousins, her aunts and uncles were there to lend a hand with raising her. Especially since Jermaine's parents were no longer together and she was mostly being raised by her single mother. Now, it was clear early on that Jermaine was incredibly artistic. When she wasn't drawing or knitting, she was thriving in the great outdoors. Fishing or hunting or taking care of one of her many, many pets. She had squirrels to dogs to pigs. And as she got older, Jermaine had dreams of going to the Institute of American Indian Arts in New Mexico and finding ways to blend both her heritage and culture with her incredible talent. But life had other plans for Jermaine. When she was just 14 years old, Jermaine met a boy that she fell hard for. It was 16 year old Michael Defrance, who was a non tribal citizen. So the two began a relationship. But before Jermaine even hit her twenties, she found herself pregnant with her first son and then her second son soon after.

[Michael Defrance]

This might be a question, maybe not for you, but for any of our listeners that are Native American. And part of that. Is that like a. No. No. Like, is that something that's looked down upon or you're not supposed to do?

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah, I would have no idea. I think that that's like a cultural.

[Michael Defrance]

Yeah. Well, if anyone is part of that culture and community, let us know because I'm actually, I'm curious. I don't know.

[Peyton Moreland]

Now, I do need to say that over the years that they were dating, things were hot and cold between Jermaine and Michael. But Jermaine always put a strong face on for her two kids. She was eager to teach them about their heritage, how to fish, how to hunt. But parenthood definitely got in the way of her art school dreams. Instead, Jermaine worked a bunch of odd jobs around the reservation. The Big River Cantina, a tree planter with the Tribal Forest Services. At one point, she even had an interest in becoming a firefighter. This is all to say that Jermaine was passionate about her community and her people. And she never ventured too far from home. She always stayed very connected to her roots. This is something Michael, who was definitely controlling at times, could never take away from jermaine. But in 2017, Michael actually seemed to move on from her. He had gotten engaged to a new girlfriend and Jermaine, according to her Facebook status in 2017, had gone from single to in a relationship with someone new. Herself. But with two young boys tying them together, Michael and Jermaine continued to see each other from time to time. That was at least up until June of 2018. So on June 14, Jermaine and Michael attended a monster truck rally together. Then on June 15, Jermaine woke up and spent the first half of her day doing what most 23 year olds loved to do at this time, making lip syncing videos for TikTok. It was a platform that she was very active on according to her friends and family. And I want you to know it's 2018 so she is active on TikTok before TikTok really became TikTok. I think it already changed from musically.

[Michael Defrance]

Okay. I was going to ask is it musically or is it TikTok?

[Peyton Moreland]

I think it had already changed.

[Michael Defrance]

Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

Um, but just barely.

[Michael Defrance]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

So she's posting on TikTok. She was very active on it. And in the post Jermaine seems happy. She's in great spirits actually. And then she hits the bars in downtown Missoula later that evening. Now she stops at the Dark Horse bar till around 10pm before heading next door to two more places that would be the Golden Rose and then followed by the Badlander. Now Jermaine has a few drinks. She's having fun. She's out for the night. She plays pools, she hits the dance floor. And everyone who sees her this night says that she looks like she's having a great time. But a bartender at the Badlander, remember this is the third place she's gone to, says that that night Germaine was on her phone a lot. Now again, it's 2018. I think being glued to your phone as a 23 year old is honestly not that strange. But what the bartender does find strange is that there is a guy there with Germaine who keeps trying to get her attention at the bar. He's kind of following her around like a little puppy. And the bartender also says neither Germain nor this guy she's with really seem to be too intoxicated.

[Michael Defrance]

Imagine the amount of things. Okay, let me clarify things. Imagine the amount of crazy and unique events that bartenders see daily.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah.

[Michael Defrance]

Whether people are sober, whether they're drunk. Just the amount of different people and unique situations that they see is probably right. I mean, a lot.

[Peyton Moreland]

And I do think it's interesting that bartenders actually can recall pretty heavily like the people that they were serving that night.

[Michael Defrance]

I know, me too. It's probably because they're sober and the.

[Peyton Moreland]

People probably talk a lot.

[Michael Defrance]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

I think it's also Important to note that the bartender says that Jermaine's not just hanging out with this one mystery dude who's following her around. There's groups of people that she's bopping around to, she's socializing with throughout the night. And then she leaves the bar sometime after midnight with one of these groups, and she's actually seen on security footage talking with them outside the bar. And then she walks off, but that same guy who's kind of following her is trailing a bit behind her. So by the middle of the next day, Jermain's family hasn't heard a peep out of her. Which is scary because Jermaine always called to check in and she was constantly posting on social media. But since the night before, Jermain had gone dark, and now she's not answering her phone. So Jermaine's grandmother is actually the first person to notice it. So she calls Jermaine's aunts for help, and after a few more hours with no sign of her, they start calling around hospitals, shelters, everywhere they can think of to try and track her down. But by the following day, June 17, they are so sick with worry because she still hasn't come home or answered, that they contact the Flathead Reservations Tribal Police Department. Now, here's where things start to kind of get complicated, because the tribal police say that they can't do much because Germaine's disappearance happened off of the reservation. It was in Missoula at the bars.

[Michael Defrance]

So then it would have to be, yes.

[Peyton Moreland]

Family need to go to the Missoula police and file with them. Okay. So they call the Missoula police, who say, oh, you're gonna have to come down to the station in person to file this missing person's report.

[Michael Defrance]

Is that normal?

[Peyton Moreland]

I mean, yeah, I think they probably do want to meet with you in.

[Michael Defrance]

Person, but they probably. They probably just didn't believe them.

[Peyton Moreland]

So on June 19th, the family make the hour and 15 minute drive down to Missoula to do exactly that.

[Michael Defrance]

Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

But when they get there and actually file the missing person's report with Missoula police, they immediately get the feeling that there is zero sense of urgency. And the family doesn't know if that's because Germaine was over 18. So legally she can disappear without telling anyone or because she had been bar hopping that night and drinking. So police aren't taking it seriously, or probably more likely because she was an indigenous woman from the reservation.

[Michael Defrance]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

While they speak with Missoula police on June 19, the police don't actually file the reports until the 20th, and then they don't sign a detective to her case until the 21st. Which, like, if you know anything about missing persons cases, the first 40 hours.

[Michael Defrance]

Two days are the most crucial.

[Peyton Moreland]

Just to file the report and assign a detective is insane. And then that detective goes on vacation, so he's in charge of her case.

[Michael Defrance]

What?

[Peyton Moreland]

And then he leaves on vacation, so her case just sits there with no one investigating it for another five days until a different detective realizes, hey, we had this missing person report, and, like, literally none of us have looked into it.

[Michael Defrance]

It's interesting. I mean, I know. Hmm. I don't know. I just. As a detective, someone in law enforcement, wouldn't you feel. And look, I'm also aware of the amount of fluff that comes through in departments. Right. Like, I'm understanding of that, but there's also a lot of real things that is not fluff, that is serious, that needs to be taken seriously. Wouldn't you feel guilty? Like, wouldn't you be like, dang, I should probably. I should probably check on this.

[Peyton Moreland]

I think the average person would. But I also think that this is an epidemic. Like, this is very. This is something that happens often.

[Michael Defrance]

It's so insane to me.

[Peyton Moreland]

It is insane. So it's not actually until June 26th, this is almost 10 days after she has last been seen that night, that the Missoula police finally start questioning things about Jermaine.

[Michael Defrance]

10 days. It's too late. I mean, I know that sounds horrible, but it's too late. Like, it is too late.

[Peyton Moreland]

If there was any chance.

[Michael Defrance]

If there's any chance, it's gone now.

[Peyton Moreland]

It's so slim now.

[Michael Defrance]

Yeah, it's messed up.

[Peyton Moreland]

So the family isn't losing hope during all of this, though. In the meantime, in those 10 days, they had taken matters into their own hands. They had put up pictures, handed out flyers, anything to get the word out around the reservation, which is devastating. They also organized volunteer searches, but the reservation is 1.3 million acres of land along a lot of mountains and flowing rivers, plus, oh, my God. The last time domain was seen was actually off the reservation. So the community that her family is reaching out to is actually an hour away from where she was last seen. So where do you search? Unfortunately, this wasn't the first time a native woman had gone missing from the Flathead Reservation, though. So presumably a lot of these people searching had actually combed these lands before.

[Michael Defrance]

Also, I just want to Clarify. We're in 2018.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah.

[Michael Defrance]

This isn't 1980s. This isn't the 1990s? 2018?

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah, we should know better by like.

[Michael Defrance]

This is it's insane.

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[Peyton Moreland]

Doesn'T produce any results. There is still no sign of Jermaine, but the police have already been working on some theories about what happened when they got 10 days later when they decided to start looking at it. For starters, they feel pretty confident that this wasn't a runaway situation. Especially since, as we know, Jermaine is a mother. She left two little boys back at home. So that's when they jumped to other possibilities. Either Germaine disappeared due to some drug related crime. Someone she knows is involved in her disappearance. Maybe she was trafficked at first. Police say they have good reason to investigate the human trafficking angle because Detective Guy Baker, the one who is officially now taken on Jermaine's case, says they have some information about people coming from out of state into Missoula to traffic girls.

[Michael Defrance]

Holy crap.

[Peyton Moreland]

Now, from what I can tell, this was something they had come across before at the Missoula police station. And it's particularly because there is a major interstate that runs through the area by downtown Missoula. And as the Missoula County Deputy attorney put it, they could be, quote, swept away in an instant. Which is why trafficking is a problem here. Especially with the lack of GPS signals and cell towers in the area. It makes it easy for people to kidnap someone and get them out of state before they can even make a phone call. Now, this is really all the information I have on the human trafficking theory, and I know that the police don't have much more than this either because they rule it out pretty early in the investigation. So it's the first thing they jump to. But they end up ruling it out, especially when they get a piece of evidence that shows what Jermaine was doing and who she was with on the night of her disappearance. So remember how I mentioned the last bar Jermain was at? The Badlander Bar, had security cameras set up outside. It was basically pointed in an alleyway next to the bar. And on the night Jermaine went missing, she was seen talking to a group of people out there. And obviously we know that one unidentified man that has been confirmed as the guy that was kind of following her around all night is there, and I.

[Michael Defrance]

Assume, I guess we'll get to it. Did the bar have cameras? Let's find out.

[Peyton Moreland]

So, in this footage, I mean, if you're just basing it kind of off body language, it's almost as if Jermaine is kind of trying to shake that man that's following her. Like she's trying to insert herself into other people, hoping that he gets the message that she's, like, not wanting to be with him. They are walking quickly behind her, but they can't really catch up with her pace. Now, luckily, what the footage shows is a large group of people who saw Jermain the night before she vanished. So these are people who might know the conversation she was having and who this mysterious guy was. So detectives head down to the Badlander and they start questioning anyone who might have seen Jermain that night. And they find out that person that was seen following Jermaine around was her ex boyfriend.

[Michael Defrance]

Surprise.

[Peyton Moreland]

And father of her two kids.

[Michael Defrance]

Surprise.

[Peyton Moreland]

Michael. Now, from what I can tell, they don't get much context from these witness interviews other than Michael's identity, but it's definitely enough for them to call him into the station for an interview.

[Michael Defrance]

That's.

[Peyton Moreland]

Now, Michael admits, yes, he was out with Jermaine that night, and after they left the bars, they got into his Dodge pickup truck. So this is more than police have learned this entire time. They now are getting from Michael where Jermaine went when she left the camera. He says he drove her three minutes down the street to a little grocery store called the Orange Street Food Farm. This is just before 1am Jermaine apparently told him she was meeting a friend named Cassidy who lived right around the corner there, and she was planning to actually spend the night at Cassidy's house. So Michael drops her off and he says she hopped out and that was the last time he saw her. But when police look into this Cassidy person, they can't find anyone by that name that Germaine knows, which is extremely suspicious for one very good reason. And it's because Michael and Germaine had a pretty dark past. So when police start looking into their relationship, they find an old report from April 14th of 2013. It was filed in Sanders county, which the reservation is on, just outside of Missoula. And according to these documents, Michael had punched Jermaine three times back in 2013 on that night.

[Michael Defrance]

Gosh.

[Peyton Moreland]

So he pled guilty to the assault. He didn't serve any jail time. Instead, he was fined and given 40 hours of domestic violence treatment.

[Michael Defrance]

I do have to say domestic violence is horrible. And Peyton and I the other day were streaming on Twitch, and we were watching a bunch of, like, road rage moments. The amount of people who, like, can't control their anger and go straight to violence or straight to hitting.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah.

[Michael Defrance]

There are so many people, they instantly, they get upset about something and it's punch hit violence, something along those lines, and it's just horrible.

[Peyton Moreland]

It's why teaching emotional regulation is one of the most important things you can crazy.

[Michael Defrance]

Just going straight to violence. Like, no, we don't solve problems with violence. Like, end of story.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah. So he's also told that he's not allowed to possess any firearms. Okay. But this is just the tip of the iceberg. With such few consequences, the abuse continues. The following year, in June or July of 2014, it happens again. This time, Jermaine and Michael have a fight at her aunt's house. Michael throws her on the hood of a van, hits her four times in the face and head, and then tosses her on the ground and spits on her. Okay, he's arrested again. And from what I can tell, there is no real consequences. In November of that year, Jermaine calls the police again, says Michael has grabbed her, stole her phone and tossed it in some water. This is actually illegal and again falls under the category of assault because the offender damaged the victim's phone when they were trying to call for help. Only the police say once more, there's not really much we can do. It's considered civil, not criminal. Okay, so we're obviously seeing a pattern here now. And it keeps getting worse to the point where Jermaine isn't even trying to hide it anymore. In May of 2017, she posts a YouTube video about her relationship with Michael and she talks about how he's abusive and how he continues to pressure her to stay together or he's going to go to court and try to get full custody of their kids. She says the last time she refused a kiss from him, Michael threw her against a pull up bar and choked her.

[Michael Defrance]

What in the world is happening right now?

[Peyton Moreland]

Now, the worst incident might have been the one shortly after that post. Jermaine and Michael were driving home from a concert when apparently he pushed Jermaine out of his moving vehicle on Interstate 90. Now Michael is arrested again and nothing happens. The charges are dismissed. Now, according to some sources, the couple does break up for good after this in 2017. But in early 2018, just a few months before Jermain disappears, Michael follows through on an old promise and he decides to take Jermaine to court for custody of their two kids. Now, here's Michael. He is from a white family and honestly, he has a lot more resources than Jermaine's family. So he has a lawyer. Jermaine can't afford one, which is probably why a judge ends up ruling in his favor. He says Michael has residential custody, but Jermaine can have her kids Monday through Wednesday and then every other weekend.

[Michael Defrance]

I'm so mind blown. So you're telling me that he has all of these charges and not charges, just history of violence on his record? They can see when the cops are called, they can see all this, the judge can see all of this, and it's chosen to give him custody of the kids.

[Peyton Moreland]

Well, he's the one who has a lawyer. She showed up without one.

[Michael Defrance]

It's crazy, though, as a judge, like, yeah, let's look at.

[Peyton Moreland]

Well, and also the judge says, paperwork, man. The judge says, and because he's getting majority of custody, you also have to pay child support.

[Michael Defrance]

Oh, my gosh.

[Peyton Moreland]

800Amonth is what she's ordered to pay. The one who showed up without a lawyer because she couldn't afford it.

[Michael Defrance]

I'm so pissed right now.

[Peyton Moreland]

So all this to say, but I'm.

[Michael Defrance]

Not going to be violent and I'm not going to hit anything.

[Peyton Moreland]

The police are looking at all this and they're like, oh, sheesh. The last person to be seen with Jermaine is Michael. And there's an ugly history between the two of them. There's a lot of domestic abuse. But here's what police find after speaking with Michael. That Cassidy person that Michael said Jermaine brought up, that might have been a name that Jermaine really did give Michael at some point, because she didn't want him to know where she was really going later that evening, which was to her new boyfriend's house, the one who lived just a few blocks from that Orange street food farm. This is the same guy she seemingly changed her relationship status on Facebook for. And his name was Jacob, who Jermaine was texting at the bar in the hours before she disappeared. Okay, so naturally, when police learn about Jacob, they question him as well. And he says he met Germaine on a dating app. The two of them had a pretty strong connection. Things were going really well. But he says he was actually out of town on the night Jermaine disappeared. And he can prove it? He says, yeah, Germaine and I were texting that evening. She asked if she could go stay at my apartment, even though I was gone, and he said it was fine. But around 1am he called Jermaine to check on her, presumably to see if she got inside his apartment. Okay. He said the line rang a few times. Then it seemed like someone purposely ignored the call and sent it to voicemail, and he never heard from her again. So with Jacob's alibi, they're able to rule him out as a suspect pretty quickly. But he offers up something that puts the spotlight back on Michael. Jacob says Jermaine told her the day before she vanished, she and Michael had been fighting again. He was yelling at her, asking about who she was dating. Said he wanted to get back. Back together. Which would make sense why Jermaine could have lied to Michael that night and said she was staying with a person named Cassidy. Only police learn Germaine, or at least Germaine's cell phone, actually never made it into Jacob's apartment that night. When police start collecting data from Germaine's cell phone, they find that the call Jacob made to her on the night she disappeared was silenced, just like he thought. And they also learned that between the hours of 2am and 10am that morning, her cell phone actually traveled back to the area near the Flathead Reservation, specifically to a place called Ivaro Hill. And the cell was pinging towers around there.

[Michael Defrance]

Crazy.

[Peyton Moreland]

And you know who else's phone was pinging those same towers at that same time in the middle of the night?

[Michael Defrance]

Who else's phone?

[Peyton Moreland]

Babe Michaels.

[Michael Defrance]

Surprise.

[Peyton Moreland]

And that's because he lives in this area. So Michael finds himself back in front of detectives because he says, I dropped her off and she went to sleep at Cassidy's. But really, her cell phone silenced a call from her boyfriend and then traveled back, basically to where Michael lives.

[Michael Defrance]

I love technology. I just love that everyone can get caught now with cell phones pinging. And it's amazing.

[Peyton Moreland]

So they're like, hey, Michael, why did her phone ping at your house, basically later that night? And he's like, oh, she left her phone in my car. And he's like, I actually tried to go through her text messages when she left it, but I couldn't crack the code. When that happened, he said he decided to toss it out of his truck on Highway 12.

[Michael Defrance]

Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

So he's like, she leaves it in my car. I try to open it up. I can't figure out the password, so I decided to just throw it out.

[Michael Defrance]

Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

He says he even remembers the mile marker. He says it was 94. Now, you gotta think this is pretty suspicious for this young woman to forget her cell phone and her ex boyfriend's car on the night she vanished. But to offer up where he left it, down to the mile mark, that seems almost too good to be true. Which it is, because when the police go to that mile marker, there's no cell phone. So in late June, officers pay a visit to Michael Defrances home in Ivaro Hill, where he presumably still lives with his parents, because while Michael's not there, they do speak with his mother. And she says Germain has never been to their house, which feels kind of unlikely considering they dated for years and share two kids together. But she also says her son loved Jermaine. He wanted to get back together with her, which I suppose was her reason for thinking that he was innocent.

[Michael Defrance]

Dude, I get it. I mean, I guess I get being a parent and trying to defend your kid, but there's no way she's never been in the house. Like, she's lying. She's. She's lying.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah. So police actually decide to come back a week later with a search warrant. And while they comb the house for any sign of foul play or other personal property belonging to Jermaine, they don't find anything. And over the next few months, though, months, police believe they know the area.

[Michael Defrance]

But they just can't find the body.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah, they're like, we think that this is probably where the evidence or the body is hidden. It's a pretty heavily forested area where Michael lives. There's a lot of wildlife. It's a place that covers hundreds of square miles where an animal might get to the remains before any human would even come across. Actually, using helicopters and aerial surveillance would be a waste of time because of how dense the brush is in this area. And while searching, they do find a lot of bones, but none of them are human. And police are like, listen, this is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. But after hearing the evidence, Jermaine's family feels confident that this is probably her final resting place. Which is why they put up a billboard in the area. It's one with Jermaine in a baseball cap. It's a screen grab from one of her last social media posts that she made on the day she disappeared. And while police haven't officially ruled Michael Defrance a suspect, they keep a close eye on him over the next few months. And in October, they actually return to his house with another search warrant. And this time, they find something that's a bit problematic for Michael. They discover a large collection of guns. Now, I don't know if they missed this the first time or if this was some kind of strategy, because if you remember, ever since that 2013 charge for domestic abuse, Michael is not allowed to own any firearms. And cops pull a lot out of his house. I mean, seven different weapons, oh, my God, tons of ammunition. And when they ask Michael if he knew that this was part of his probation, he's like, oh, I didn't really know that. I didn't know I was not supposed to have guns.

[Michael Defrance]

It's the all same.

[Peyton Moreland]

It also seems during this search, they find something else. With a team of cadaver dogs, they located several items that appeared to be blood stained, and those were sent to the crime laboratory. The problem is none of that DNA could be conclusively tied to Germaine. And they don't arrest Michael that day. From what I can tell, they just take away his weapons.

[Michael Defrance]

I. I don't know. I don't know. I'm surprised that they haven't been able to find anything yet, like, more concrete.

[Peyton Moreland]

And with all of this happening, I mean, they could have arrested Michael for those guns. Chose not to.

[Michael Defrance]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

Maybe because they're thinking we'll just arrest him for.

[Michael Defrance]

I guess I'm pointing at the murder, right? Whatever happened here. Yeah. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. It's sometimes hard to remind ourselves that we are trying our best to make sense of everything. And in this crazy world, that isn't easy. Here's a reminder to send some thanks to the people in your life, including yourself. Not up until recently. I mean, Peyton's always been a big advocate of therapy. And honestly, I think therapy up until I guess a few months ago, super important. Something Peyton and I both do is something Peyton and I both love sometimes. But it's honestly, it's good to talk about your feelings. It is good to talk about what's going on inside your head. So don't forget that. And if you feel like you want to do therapy, give BetterHelp a try and see if it's for you. Therapy in general is just important.

[Peyton Moreland]

BetterHelp is entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. You just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and you can actually switch therapists at any time for no additional charge. So let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com husband today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H L P.com husband you guys, we are getting into an ad and I need you to think about businesses with mind blowing sales like Death Wish coffee or Selena Gomez's rare beauty. Sure, epic products and fire marketing come to mind. But the real game changer, it's the behind the scenes magic that makes shopping a breeze for tons of businesses. That magic is Shopify.

[Michael Defrance]

Peyton and I are big advocates for Shopify. It is easy to use. It is intuitive. If you are selling online at all, use Shopify. I've been using it for what, seven years now, Babe. Yes, it's insane. Like I love Shopify. I'm a big advocate for them. I will always have anyone choose them over anybody else. Go check Shopify out. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Home of the number one checkout on the planet.

[Peyton Moreland]

And you know why? It's the not so secret secret Shop pay. Shop pay will be the death of me. But also, it boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going.

[Michael Defrance]

Upgrade your business and get the same checkout rare beauty uses and us. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com husband all lowercase Go to shopify.com husband to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com husband all lowercase thank you.

[Peyton Moreland]

So, because of this, Jermaine's case runs cold, and her family and her community are left to continue the investigation pretty much on their own. More billboards are put up all over Montana calling for any information on Jermain. The Confederated Salish and Kootenay Tribal Council increased the reward for that information to $10,000. And just when it seems like Jermaine's story might be another MMIW case that falls into obscurity. An indigenous Cree reporter from the Okinese First Nation in Saskatchewan, Canada, swoops in to make sure that that doesn't happen. And her name is Connie Walker, and she creates a podcast called Stolen the Search for Jermaine. Okay, Now, Connie roots herself in Montana, traveling between the Flathead Reservation in Missoula, trying to unravel the mystery behind Jermaine's disappearance. And after the eight episode series airs in March of 2021, it brings a lot of national exposure to the case, which also means a lot of pressure on local authorities because she's like, hey, what's going on? What's going on? We're pretty confident we have a suspect. So in July 2021, after this podcast has gained a lot of eyes on.

[Michael Defrance]

It, everyone starts going hard.

[Peyton Moreland]

Police finally just arrests Michael. Oh, I'm just like, it took this journalist to come in, which, like, yes, we've seen happen before. When you put pressure on a case, police are going to be more likely to try and do something about it, but it's just, it's sucky.

[Michael Defrance]

It's interesting. They arrest him because no evidence has really.

[Peyton Moreland]

Well, they don't arrest him, oh, for anything related to Germaine. They decide to arrest him for possession of those firearms. That was three years after the fact.

[Michael Defrance]

Gosh, can you even do that?

[Peyton Moreland]

I mean, I guess it's just insane. They're like, we'll just try to make everyone happy and arrest him for the firearms. And I'm not saying they need to arrest him for Jermaine's disappearance because like you said, there's not much evidence but just maybe, you know, fire the up the investigation again.

[Michael Defrance]

Push a little harder. Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

So he finally gets his day in court in April of 2023 and he is found guilty on four counts of firearms related felony charges. And in September20, he is sentenced to 21 months in prison. He files an appeal that same day. And as far as I'm aware, Michael has yet to serve any real jail time as he awaits the results of his appeal.

[Michael Defrance]

Holy. I want to say bad words. You're I. This is going to end and there's going to be. No one's going to be charged for this.

[Peyton Moreland]

Even though she was last seen with Michael, a very domestic, abusive relationship. They just don't want Phone was still pinging in his car. He said he threw it out. They've never found the phone, they've never found the body. It was pinging back at his house.

[Michael Defrance]

So I think at this point the reason they're not going to is because one, it has national news, so it'd be hard to find a jury. Two, honestly, I don't think he'd be convicted, which is horrible and sad because I personal Garrett's opinion. I think he did it.

[Peyton Moreland]

Allegedly.

[Michael Defrance]

Allegedly. Come sue me. I don't give a. Anyways, that sucks.

[Peyton Moreland]

And meanwhile, those billboards of Jermaine, they remain along the roads and highways throughout parts of Montana, just waiting for the moment that someone comes forward with more evidence. Maybe a smoking gun in Jermaine's case, a weapon, DNA, a body, none of it has been found yet. Which is why Michael defrance, or anyone else for that matter, has yet to even be named a suspect in Jermain's disappearance.

[Michael Defrance]

Wow.

[Peyton Moreland]

And also, if her case had been taken more seriously before 10 days had passed, if they had found the evidence of this peeing within those first couple days, could the body have actually been on the property? Did he move it during those 10 days?

[Michael Defrance]

I was going to say he had 10 days to move, do whatever, get rid of evidence. 10 days is a long time to clean and hide and get rid of any evidence.

[Peyton Moreland]

But these are the devastating realities behind a lot of cases involving missing and murdered indigenous women. Jermaine's aunt Valinda hinted in an interview that she isn't exactly surprised by how the case has been handled. She said, quote, mmiw isn't something that just started. It honestly has happened since colonization and we've all kept so quiet about it. I think the world is finally realizing what Native American go through. She vows to continue the fight for Jermaine and be the voice she no longer has. But really, I think that voice can be amplified. We might not be able to be boots on the ground. We might not be able to find Jermaine or solve any of these MMIW cases, but we can still draw attention to them, we can pass them on, we can put pressure on authorities. And honestly, that is probably our biggest responsibility. My biggest responsibility as a storyteller, a journalist, a podcaster. That is how I can help make a difference. And you guys listening and talking about these cases make a difference. Just doing that as well. However, if you do have any information regarding Germain's case, you could provide the missing piece by calling the Missoula Police Department at 406-396-3217. And that is the unsolved missing case of Jermaine.

[Michael Defrance]

Wow. I. It's crazy. I mean, he's going to be out of prison soon.

[Peyton Moreland]

He's not even in prison yet. He appealed. He appealed that gun charge and they're still waiting for results. So he hasn't even served a day, which is ins.

[Michael Defrance]

Oh, my gosh. I don't know. I mean, I. It sucks that more evidence hasn't been found because I think at this point he wouldn't be convicted, which is horrible. I'm not saying that's okay. I'm just saying if I think about it logically, from the justice system standpoint, I don't know if he'd be convicted. Do you? I guess it depends on the jury. It just depends.

[Peyton Moreland]

Well, also, I think that if we could get some attention, some larger scale searches going on in the area by his house, because unless he moved her during those 10 days the phones were last pinging in that area.

[Michael Defrance]

The problem is he's had how long to change it, to change it, to move, to do whatever.

[Peyton Moreland]

I mean, and again, there's so much wildlife there, the body could be scattered like.

[Michael Defrance]

And if there's no other evidence outside of that, which doesn't sound like there is, that's horrible.

[Peyton Moreland]

Unless y'all. Unless they find some DNA evidence of her blood in the house, which it sounds like they didn't.

[Michael Defrance]

And at this point, can you. Years.

[Peyton Moreland]

It would have to probably be.

[Michael Defrance]

Oh, that mom.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah.

[Michael Defrance]

Oh, I hope she's listening to this. What a. What a.

[Peyton Moreland]

Maybe she doesn't know, but she was living there.

[Michael Defrance]

I don't give. I'm pissed. I'm pissed.

[Peyton Moreland]

Honestly, I obviously don't have kids, but, like, if my son's girlfriend and baby mama, and I mean that in not a derogatory way, like legitimate. Baby mama went missing and her phone was last pinging with my son's phone on or near my property. I will be sitting his little booty down and saying, talk.

[Michael Defrance]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

No, it's not talk because, like, I still love you, but this is the right thing to do.

[Michael Defrance]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

All right, you guys, thank you for listening to this case today and we will see you next time with another episode. I love it and I hate it. Goodbye.

[Garrett Moreland]

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[Michael Defrance]

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[Michael Defrance]

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[Peyton Moreland]

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[Garrett Moreland]

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[Peyton Moreland]

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