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- [00:00]
Peyton Moreland
Are you looking to lose weight and keep it off?
- [00:03]
Garrett Moreland
Noom is here to help with their.
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Peyton Moreland
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- [00:34]
Garrett Moreland
Fueling your body right to take fitness.
- [00:36]
Peyton Moreland
Classes to maintain your strength and lean on your personalized care team for expert support. You'll have access to a clinician, a coach and a community all within the app. Listen, it can be really hard to stay in shape and lose weight and.
- [00:48]
Garrett Moreland
This is a way to help those.
- [00:49]
Peyton Moreland
Who have done anything they could but just need a little extra help. Noom GLP1 starts at $149 and is delivered to your door in seven days. Start your GLP1 journey today at Noom.com that's n o o m dot com Noom the Smart Way to Lose Weight.
- [01:07]
Garrett Moreland
Not all customers will medically qualify for prescription medications. Compounded medications are not reviewed by the FDA for safety, efficacy or quality.
- [01:16]
Unknown
Well, if you listen to this podcast, you know that we love Simply Safe. Simply Safe protects our home guards us. Don't try to come over, just don't do it. I promise you you won't like it. Obviously talking about true crime and having an entire podcast and it makes you think of the ways in which you can keep yourself safe. We definitely feel a lot safer with our Simply Safe system. We've even gifted it to family and friends because it gives us so much peace of mind, which is invaluable. There's AI powered cameras backed by live professional monitoring agents monitor your property and detect suspicious activity. What's great too is there's no long term contracts or cancellation fees and monitoring plans start affordably at around $1 a day with a 60 day satisfaction guarantee or your money back. Plus, SimpliSafe was named Best Home Security Systems by US News and World Report five years in a row. Again, Peter and I both love SimpliSafe.
- [02:12]
We use it, we have it. We have friends and family that has it.
- [02:14]
If you're looking to get a security system, you can either install it yourself or you can have the professionals install SimpliSafe. It's so easy, so intuitive and we have a Discount for you get 50% off a new SimpliSafe system with professional monitoring and your first month free@simplisafe.com husband. Again, that's 50% off a new SimpliSafe system and your first month free by going to simplisafe.com husband. There's no safe like SimpliSafe.
- [02:45]
Garrett Moreland
You're listening to an Ono Media podcast. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.
- [02:53]
Unknown
And I'm Garrett Moreland.
- [02:54]
Garrett Moreland
And he's the husband.
- [02:54]
Unknown
And I'm the husband.
- [02:55]
Garrett Moreland
Well, Garrett and I are back. It is 2025. We are ready to go into our fifth year. This would be year five.
- [03:09]
Unknown
Yeah, sorry, blanked out. Yes. Year five in April of podcasting. Well, murder with My Husband. That's pretty crazy. Thank you for being here. We love you. Hope everyone had a good break. If you had a break, good holidays back in action. I'm sure everyone's back to work back at the office. Yeah, that's kind of what we got. Peyton has been on bed rest the last couple days. He currently can't really walk, so I'm taking care of her. And we have an MRI when this episode. The day this episode comes out. So fingers crossed everything is okay there.
- [03:46]
Garrett Moreland
I asked her if we could set the cameras up and film the episode from our bed, but he said that'd be weird.
- [03:51]
Unknown
It'd be weird because I would want a different type of episode. I try to say it with a straight face.
- [03:58]
Garrett Moreland
I broke it.
- [03:59]
Unknown
I couldn't.
- [04:01]
Garrett Moreland
My gosh.
- [04:02]
Unknown
Anyways, yeah, Peyton did make it to the studio recording. I think we'll get some good news on Monday and then we can kind of figure out a game plan. That's what we got going. Announcements. I'm kind of taking over the podcast right now. Announcements. If you want to listen to any bonus content, we have ad free content. Bonus episodes each month. 2 bonus episodes each month to be exact. You can check that out on Patreon or actually, you can check it out on Spotify as well. On Spotify, you can. It connects directly. And Apple subscriptions. Check it out. If you love it, you'll love it.
- [04:39]
Garrett Moreland
A reminder that Spotify, Patreon, Apple subscriptions, it's all the same thing. Just different platforms to receive the same content. I feel like sometimes people are a little confused on that.
- [04:49]
Unknown
Correct. For my 10 seconds this week, I would like to talk about how I keep biting the same spot in my cheek over and over again. I know some of you out there as well suffer with cheek bite disorder and it has been very painful. I swear that spot, every time I chew, it just sticks out. I keep biting it. It hurts really bad. That's it. I don't know. I just, I bit on the way. The other night we were going to dinner and I wanted to turn the car around and go home because I was so mad at myself. But I didn't. I took some deep breaths and everything's okay. That's all I got for everyone. I will say, though, a little tease. Some new merch is coming out in a couple weeks, so be ready for that. Really excited for. I say this every time. I don't care. I'm really excited for this one. We'll throw up some teaser pictures pretty soon.
- [05:40]
Garrett Moreland
I hope one day we release one and we're like, yeah, to be honest, guys, we're just not really excited about this one.
- [05:44]
Unknown
This one kind of sucks. Don't buy it. Yeah, you should not buy it.
- [05:48]
Garrett Moreland
I don't think I'd say that, but I would. I just. That would.
- [05:51]
Unknown
I'm honest with my listeners. All right, that's enough talking. We love you guys. We're going to hop into today's episode.
- [05:59]
Garrett Moreland
Our sources for this episode are capital hill seattle.com cbs news.com seattle PI.com k I r7.com case text.com courts.washington.gov paramount express.com SPD blotter.com box13seattle.com LA times.com the poor fool.com and my mynorthwest.com okay, so I think it's fair to say that we've all maybe done rash things in a moment of anger that we probably regretted later on. Whether that's saying something we didn't mean to a loved one or even a complete stranger. Most of us look back with this feeling of guilt or shame, knowing that this behavior was out of character for us. And we take it as a learning opportunity. Right? But not everyone is like that. When Thomas Din Bowman found himself in a heated moment with a stranger, it actually turned deadly. And I do have to mention here oftentimes on our Thursday live streams over on Twitch, I was just gonna say this. Yeah, we watch road rage videos and it really, we talk about it all the time over there. But just how strange it is that in one second you can be that rageful at a stranger that sometimes they turn physical.
- [07:13]
Unknown
Even some of the videos we watch, it goes from two guys arguing to the next second someone pulls out a gun and shoots the other person.
- [07:20]
Garrett Moreland
Yes.
- [07:21]
Unknown
Whoa. How did we get here. There was no need to escalate things to this.
- [07:26]
Garrett Moreland
Well, Mr. Thomas Den Bowman is one of those people, okay? But it turns out this encounter wasn't as random as din made it seem. He had a dark secret, and those feelings of regret and remorse only came when he realized he was going to have to pay for that decision with his life. So It's August of 2012 in Seattle, Washington. In the city of more than 600,000 people, a 42 year old man named Yancy Noel found his place in the world. A quick add in here. If you are like me, the only Yancey you know is actually a girl who from the movie Sleepover. So leave a comment for me on Instagram if you're with me on that. But this Yancey is a 42 year old man and after growing up in Anchorage, Alaska, Yancy moved to the Seattle area around 2002 and he's excited to be in a big city. For a fiercely intelligent, sharp witted guy like Yancy, Alaska might have just been too slow moving for his taste. Speaking of taste, he also had a very refined palate when it came to wine. So whether or not Yancy moved to Seattle for the job, I'm not sure, but I do know that he became a well respected wine buyer for local supermarkets. Okay, but fine wine was just one of the many things Yancey embraced about life. He also loved a good adventure. He loved a scenic hike with his dog Lola, or his fiance Jody. Maybe the occasional skydiving trip or at the very least a morning kayak with his friend Rick. Everyone who knew Yancy said he was kind and warm, with a big heart. He could always find something to talk about to fill the gap of silence and make you feel more comfortable. The kind of person who was great at his job, who minded his own business, who worked for the weekend and really lived life to the fullest. Someone who had a bright future ahead of him and was excitedly planning a wedding with the love of his life. So when Yancy left work to head home on the evening of August 31, 2012, he assumed he was going to spend the weekend like any other, living out another adventure and unwinding with his dog and future bride. But life had other plans for Yancy. It was around 7:30pm that night when five gunshots went off in Seattle's Roosevelt neighborhood. They rang out from a traffic light at an intersection right at the corner of 15th Avenue and 75th Street. So witnesses then caught a glimpse of a silver BMW Z4. Burn rubber and screech away from the scene.
- [10:18]
Unknown
That's the first problem. He's driving a silver Z4.
- [10:22]
Garrett Moreland
So our first eyewitnesses, Kevin Watts and Angelo Rama, heard the gunshots go off behind them in their rearview mirror. Then the next thing they know, that silver BMW with its top down and customized rims was racing through the red light past them into oncoming traffic. Now, when you see that, you know that whatever just happened was serious. I mean, this is a scene out of a movie. So these two eyewitnesses, Kevin and Angelo, they're the citizens we all want around us. Because as soon as they hear these gunshots and then this BMW flies past them, they decide to hit the gas from 0 to 60 and try to keep up with this vehicle. They are going to follow him and stop him. So he weaves in and out of traffic and is totally out of sight, though, within seconds.
- [11:12]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [11:12]
Garrett Moreland
So Kevin and Angela, when they lose him, decide to go back to the scene and make sure everyone else is okay there. They're not even really sure what happened. And that's when they see a red Subaru still sitting at the green light against the curb. And as they get out and approach.
- [11:27]
Peyton Moreland
The car, there's a lot of glass.
- [11:31]
Garrett Moreland
On the ground and a lot of blood. The driver inside still had both of his hands firmly gripped on the steering wheel.
- [11:40]
Unknown
Oh, my gosh. Okay.
- [11:41]
Garrett Moreland
And he had four bullets in his head. And as you know, the victim was Yancy Null. Now we have another eyewitness, a woman named Patricia Schulmeister, who also came outside after hearing the gunfire. She actually lived right at the corner of this intersection. In fact, the fifth bullet, which had missed Yancey, had actually fired through her fence, through a pane of glass and into her home, and then through a lampshade and then into a picture she had hanging of her face.
- [12:13]
Unknown
Holy crap. The.
- [12:15]
Garrett Moreland
So the bullet hit her picture of her cat. And by the time Patricia even found that bullet, police had already been called to the scene of the crime. Patricia came out, handed it to investigators.
- [12:25]
Peyton Moreland
And right away they could tell the.
- [12:27]
Garrett Moreland
Make of the gun. A 9 millimeter Glock pistol. But the first question police are asking is, did anyone see what sparked this whole thing? I mean, we have someone who was just shot in the head four times in broad daylight. Was this a targeted hit on Yancy Noel, or was this completely random? So when they look into Yancy's background, they don't find a single shred of criminal history, which kind of sort of ruled out anything gang or drug related to police. But the one thing they Find incredibly strange is all of the glass in the street. It's not from Yancey's car because his windows are rolled down. It's from the shooter's car, which means the shooter from the driver's side shot through his passenger side window and into Yancey's car.
- [13:19]
Unknown
I am so curious where this goes.
- [13:22]
Garrett Moreland
But if you remember, the eyewitnesses said the BMW had his top down. So he has his top down but his windows up. That's how he's rolling. But this is actually helpful to the police because not only do they have a description of the vehicle, they know they are looking for one with a broken passenger side window.
- [13:38]
Unknown
Okay.
- [13:39]
Garrett Moreland
And later they find there were one or two witnesses who caught a pretty good glimpse of the driver himself. They said the man was well dressed, in his late 20s or early 30s, with slick backed hair, and was either white or Asian. Now, officers have an artist compile a sketch, which they release to the public a few days later. They also offer up a grainy photo of the driver they managed to pull off a nearby security camera. And for the next two or three weeks, they keep having local news channels run the image of the mysterious hitman. Meanwhile, police speak with Yancy's friends and family. They're trying to get to the bottom of what might have unfolded at that intersection. They're wondering, does Yancy have any enemies? But everyone they talk to is like, no, Yancy was the friendliest guy. There was no way this was a planned hit against him personally. It just doesn't make sense. So police consider another angle. Is this an instance of road rage gone horribly wrong? They actually point to a dent in the front of Yancy's car. That suggests to them maybe he was driving aggressively that day, got into some sort of accident. But even so, Yancey's friends say it didn't seem possible. According to them, Yancey apparently drove like a grandmother. He was overly cautious. He never, never showed signs of impulsive anger or recklessness. And that dent on his car was there long before that night. They all say it's completely unlikely Yancy would ever start anything physical or verbal with a stranger. He's mindful and considerate. He's polite to a fault. So the road rage thing also starts to seem unlikely to police. But what other angle do they have right now? Well, one week turns to two, and the police are receiving hundreds of tips from people throughout Seattle because apparently silver BMW Z4s with custom rims are very popular at the time. But none of those leads evolve into anything of Note.
- [15:50]
Unknown
What year are we in again?
- [15:51]
Garrett Moreland
2012.
- [15:52]
Unknown
Yeah, I'm just trying to get a good picture of that Z4 in my.
- [15:56]
Garrett Moreland
Head so they can't come up with anything. There's just this hit and run that led to a guy being dead until September 14th. That day, a woman calls the police with an anonymous tip. After seeing the sketch, she says that she thinks the driver is a man that lives less than 10 blocks from where the shooting took place. She says, I know his name. It's Thomas Din Bowman.
- [16:22]
Unknown
Okay.
- [16:23]
Garrett Moreland
And when police pull up his license, his photo matches that sketch pretty well. As you guys know, I don't typically dive into an offender's background unless it is pertinent to the story, which in this case I think it is important to mention. So Din, as he goes by. So his name is Thomas, but he goes by. Din wasn't exactly someone who lived under the radar. Back in 1996, he had a featured story written about him in the Seattle Times because he was, quote, a child prodigy. Dinh, whose mother was a Vietnamese refugee and father was an American Boeing engineer, actually started learning computers at the age of three. And by the time he was 13 years old, he was already enrolled in Seattle's Pacific University while also finishing in the top three of the Junior Olympics in fencing. Oh, 13 den interest.
- [17:20]
Unknown
I've always. Nah, never mind.
- [17:22]
Garrett Moreland
Go ahead.
- [17:23]
Unknown
Okay. I've always just found fencing so interesting.
- [17:26]
Garrett Moreland
Have you seen the Parent Trap?
- [17:27]
Unknown
You know, I know what fencing is. I just. It's just interesting. I think that they should change it up a bit. I think we go, no armor. Real swords. Anyways, let's keep going.
- [17:38]
Garrett Moreland
So after this, he then goes on to get a degree in electrical engineering from University of Washington. And by 20 years old, Din had started his own tech business.
- [17:48]
Unknown
Holy crap.
- [17:49]
Garrett Moreland
An engineering company that specialized in building robotics called Vague Industries. In 2007, he met a successful dentist named Jennifer Palm at a seminar. And a year later, she and the 25 year old din tied the knot. All right, you guys.
- [18:06]
Peyton Moreland
To me, after the holidays, the snow and cold goes from being fun and festive to harsh and slushy. Even those of us that love cold weather need some something to break up long winter nights. And that's why I like to treat.
- [18:20]
Garrett Moreland
Myself to a little something.
- [18:22]
Peyton Moreland
But I don't want to spend a fortune on my winter blues. And that's where Quince comes in. You guys know that I love my Quince clothing. I back this company 100. And with quints, you can treat yourself to everyday luxury at an affordable price. This is something everyone needs in their closet. In my opinion, it's Quince's iconic Mongolian cashmere sweaters that start at $50. And if you're whoa. How can you even get cashmere at that low of a price? It's because Quint partners directly with top factories and cuts out the cost of the middleman and then passes the savings on to you. Of course, they use premium fabrics and finishes for that luxury. Fill in every piece. It definitely is a company. When the piece comes, it feels nice, it feels luxurious, and you're not going.
- [19:10]
Garrett Moreland
To break the bank.
- [19:11]
Peyton Moreland
So treat yourself this winter without the luxury price tag. Go to quince.com husband for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's quincy.com husband to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com/husband do you guys know that solving.
- [19:30]
Unknown
Mysteries keeps me on my toes, but staying fit? That used to be the real challenge. But Enter Peloton, my partner in crime fighting and fitness. Let me tell you, Peloton has been a game changer in my hectic life. Whether I'm deep into researching or juggling podcast recordings, Peloton has got my back. They've got everything from quick 10 minute workouts when I'm crunched for time to longer sessions when I need to really decompress after a heavy episode. And I love that I can switch it up too. One day I'm doing yoga to clear my mind, the next I'm on a virtual run. And the best part? It's all on my schedule. Live classes, on demand workouts. Peloton fits into my unpredictable life like a perfect alibi. With the All Access membership, I can work out at home or use the app when I'm out. It's honestly like having a fitness accomplice wherever I go. So whether you're in your true crime era, your busy parent era, or just you're trying to stay sane era, Peloton's got what you need. So find your push. Find your power with peloton@1peloton.com now from.
- [20:33]
Garrett Moreland
The outside looking in, they seemed to be on a great path. They appeared to be madly in love, and both of them had a promising future, maybe even an early retirement if all went as planned. That is, if Din stayed out of trouble. See, Din actually had a run in with the law a year before he met Jennifer. So back in 2006. That year he was charged with burglary and first degree theft. And while I'm Unclear of what the circumstances were. I know he was later acquitted of the charges. So it was only a matter of time, though, before Jennifer found herself pulled into her new husband's chaotic lifestyle. So now Fast forward to 2012. After the Anonymous tip comes in. Police set up a stakeout of Din's home. They don't immediately go to him just to make sure they had the right guy.
- [21:21]
Unknown
Okay.
- [21:22]
Garrett Moreland
And after almost a week of watching the house, they find zero signs of that BMW coming or going. That is, until day seven, when the garage door opens one afternoon, just quick enough for police to catch a glimpse of what's inside the silver BMW. Now that they knew Den had owned that car, they were able to secure a search warrant. That Same day, on September 21, they knocked on the Bowman's front door. Warrant in hand, of course, they make a beeline for the garage. One of the first things they needed to do was inspect the BMW. And when they opened the passenger side door, they found there were still tiny pieces of glass on the interior there and that the window had definitely been replaced recently. And not to mention the garage reeks of paint. And the custom silver rims of his car, which had been listed as an identifying feature of this vehicle, had now been painted black. So within hours, it's not just a search warrant police are after. They now have an arrest warrant, too.
- [22:33]
Unknown
It just seems like it's going to be open and shut, so I don't know.
- [22:36]
Garrett Moreland
Thomas Din Bowman is placed in handcuffs that same day.
- [22:40]
Unknown
Okay.
- [22:40]
Garrett Moreland
While his wife Jennifer is also being called down to the station for questioning. Now, Din is held for hours waiting for the police to finally come in and interrogate him. But in the meantime, footage captures him alone there. And all I got to say, and sometimes we see this happen in interrogation footage. The guy does not look too stressed for someone who was just brought in as a suspect of murder charges.
- [23:05]
Unknown
I don't know the rules around it because obviously they hold them for hours on purpose. Right. To wear them down, make them anxious. Wear them down. But if he were to say, I mean, I guess he's being held because he was arrested, so there's a warrant. But if he were to say, I want an attorney or I want a lawyer, they just throw him back in the county jail for a little bit.
- [23:25]
Garrett Moreland
Yep.
- [23:25]
Unknown
Okay.
- [23:26]
Garrett Moreland
He doesn't technically have to talk to them without a lawyer present.
- [23:29]
Unknown
I assume that's the case. I just.
- [23:31]
Garrett Moreland
He's not free to leave because they have the arrest warrant.
- [23:34]
Unknown
Okay. Got it. Because it's also. That makes sense because sometimes, like, the lawyers will come in and they'll be like, hey, we're going home.
- [23:40]
Garrett Moreland
Yes, but that's because they don't have an arrest for an arrest.
- [23:43]
Unknown
Got it. Okay.
- [23:44]
Garrett Moreland
So this guy is drinking coffee. He's eating snacks. In fact, he looks frustrated with how long he has to sit there and wait. At one point, he even tells an officer he's annoyed with how long this is all taking. Which you think this guy would be on his best behavior in a situation like this, especially if he's innocent and hoping to get out. He'd be like, hey, what's going on? Like, I didn't do this. Instead of being like, can we just get this over with? Yeah, I will say, Garrett and I were stuck in an airport a week ago, and I couldn't even eat snacks because I was so ready to get on the plane that was delayed. So I don't even know how this guy is eating and chilling after sitting there for that long.
- [24:22]
Unknown
This is true.
- [24:24]
Garrett Moreland
So what Den didn't realize was the officers at this time weren't questioning him because they were questioning his wife, Jennifer. She seemed equally as cagey and weird about things. When detectives asked her if she had heard of any murders near her house over the last few weeks, she said, I'm not sure. Remember, they live 10 blocks from the crime scene. In fact, she says, I'm not sure in response to most of the questions that she's asked that day.
- [24:52]
Unknown
Have you heard of any murders, like, within a few blocks of your house?
- [24:55]
I'm not sure. You're not sure? It's a yes or no question. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.
- [25:05]
Garrett Moreland
This goes on for nearly four hours, and oddly, Jennifer never asks for a lawyer or to speak with her husband. She does, however, act increasingly nervous as the interrogation continues. She stops making eye contact. She's shaking. She even agrees to hand over her purse when one of the detectives asks, which isn't a smart move for Jennifer.
- [25:26]
Unknown
I'm gonna be pretty thrown off if she's the one who did this.
- [25:30]
Garrett Moreland
So her handing her purse over isn't a good move because she actually just told the police one thing that will prove to be a lie. She said that her husband's window had been smashed when they were on a recent trip to Portland, but they went to get it fixed immediately after stopping for lunch that day. Now, inside the purse, Jennifer has receipts, particularly one from a body shop that shows the car window was replaced around 7:09pm the night after the murder.
- [26:05]
Unknown
This is exactly why I never asked for a receipt.
- [26:10]
Garrett Moreland
Also, like, you kept the receipt.
- [26:12]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [26:12]
Garrett Moreland
It's so dumb of you fixing the proof of the crime.
- [26:15]
Unknown
I mean, I'm glad, but.
- [26:16]
Garrett Moreland
Right.
- [26:16]
Unknown
Dumb.
- [26:17]
Garrett Moreland
So obviously they didn't do it immediately after lunch. But this is just the tip of the iceberg, because back at the house, detectives are about to uncover a lot more than just a few incriminating receipts. So after searching the garage that day, detectives also scoured the interior of the house. And what they find is. Well, not a whole lot, meaning the couple has barely any furniture. Some rooms are pretty much empty. Their mattress is sitting on the floor of their bedroom. All of which is a bit odd and confusing to police, especially considering that Jennifer makes about $250,000 a year alone.
- [26:55]
Unknown
Wow.
- [26:55]
Garrett Moreland
But the devil is in the details, right?
- [26:57]
Unknown
Dang.
- [26:58]
Garrett Moreland
And there are some pretty bizarre details in the kitchen that set off alarm bells for detectives. Like a few post it notes that have been left around written from Jennifer to Din. One specifically, that reads, quote, to the best shooter in the wild, wild west. Bang, bang. Xxo.
- [27:18]
Unknown
You're lying. There is no way. Which, like, okay, there is no way we're doing that. That is so crazy. That blows my mind.
- [27:27]
Garrett Moreland
Right?
- [27:27]
Unknown
Bang, bang, bang, bang. That's. That's insane.
- [27:31]
Garrett Moreland
The best shooter. Like, imagine the cop and the detectives walking in there and seeing this post it note on the fridge. And they're there on suspicion that this guy shot someone four times randomly. And it says, the best shooter in the wild, wild west. Bang, bang.
- [27:48]
Unknown
Okay, I. I'd be like, all right.
- [27:50]
Garrett Moreland
So not only does this suggest that Jennifer. If this note is about the murder, then Jennifer knows something about the shooting. But, I mean, lying.
- [27:58]
Unknown
Never mind.
- [27:59]
Garrett Moreland
But if this note is also about the shooting, she seems to be encouraging it, like making fun of it, joking about it.
- [28:07]
Unknown
There's.
- [28:08]
Garrett Moreland
I'm not done.
- [28:09]
Unknown
I was gonna say there's only one thing they could say. There's only one excuse they could try to put it on, and I just don't think that would work. You know what I'm saying?
- [28:18]
Garrett Moreland
She's just pregnant.
- [28:19]
Unknown
Yeah. That's the only thing they could. They could pin it on. I also want to clarify. I'm not laughing about the shooting. I'm laughing about the note. That is extremely comical. I'm not laughing about the shootings. There's nothing to do with that part. Right. That's separate. Right now. I'm laughing about how comical it is that you would write a note. You're an idiot. What an idiot. What an idiot.
- [28:41]
Garrett Moreland
Also, like, sick.
- [28:42]
Unknown
It's pretty twisted, actually. Like, think about it.
- [28:45]
Garrett Moreland
You're kind of a bad. I mean, yeah, obviously you're a bad person because you murdered someone, but now you're a really bad person for joking about it.
- [28:52]
Unknown
Yeah, I think that's. That's where we start to get to, like, the psychopathic behavior, you know?
- [28:57]
Garrett Moreland
Yeah.
- [28:58]
Unknown
Where, like, the feelings are just turned off and it's just straight, like, robot mode.
- [29:02]
Garrett Moreland
Right. I do want to say the note becomes disturbing, even more disturbing as this search of their home continues, because throughout the house, police find an arsenal of weapons and ammunition. However, a 9 millimeter Glock, like the one that matched the bullets at the crime scene. That gun is nowhere in sight. So, yes, Din is under arrest, but they still need more to build a solid case against this guy if charges are going to stick. And right now they don't have a ton. So they are hoping maybe they can get some sort of confession out of Thomas Din Bowman. Only he doesn't offer anything to detectives that day in the interrogation room. He just continues playing that tough guy role. The. I'm annoyed by this act. No guilt, no fear, just frustration. And then he asks for his lawyer. So they figure, well, maybe we can catch him confessing some other way. His bail is set at $10 million, which they know he can't afford. So that means he's behind bars until his trial can begin. And that's when police start listening in on his phone calls to Jennifer from prison. Unfortunately, they don't get much out of them aside from a peek into their intimate bedroom talk.
- [30:15]
Unknown
Okay, Bunny, bunny, how are you?
- [30:18]
I'm doing good.
- [30:19]
Garrett Moreland
How's my little snuggle cake? I just wrote you an email. Yay. Lots of cutesy name calling. I miss you. I want to snuggle with you. So, not much to take away there in terms of the investigation. But eventually, with the help of his lawyer, Din explains what happened that day with Yancy. So he finally comes forward with his lawyer and he's like, okay, here's the story, and it's not what anyone expects. Din claimed that night he was headed towards the I5 highway when he accidentally cut Yancy off in traffic. He said Yancy became so enraged that he yelled at dinner, saying something along the lines of, you better learn how to drive that fancy car or you're going to get yourself effed up. Blah, blah, blah. Okay, then. Din said Yancy threw a water bottle at his car and then followed Din onto the highway. Where the road rage escalated. So in Den's story so far, he's the innocent victim.
- [31:17]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [31:18]
Garrett Moreland
Then said he tried to dodge Yancy by then getting off the highway, but Yancy followed him. And when the cars came to a stop at that red light at the intersection, Den claimed Yancy rolled down his window and grabbed a wine bottle, which he threw into Din's open convertible, hitting him in the back of the head. Then Din says he saw Yancy reach for something in the passenger seat, and that's when he realized he needed to defend himself. Afraid for his life, Din said he grabbed his gun first fired those five shots into Yancy's car. The whole thing was self defense.
- [31:56]
Unknown
Yeah. That's a horrible argument.
- [31:57]
Garrett Moreland
So, of course there's a lot of questions about Den's testimony, mainly because A, why didn't he offer this statement when he was initially questioned by police? And B, Yancey's friends and family said absolutely no way. Road rage was not in Yancey's nature. There's no way he would have started this. But this approach that Din's defense is putting together is actually an interesting play because they feel pretty confident that everyone on the jury will be able to relate to road rage.
- [32:25]
Unknown
Also, if there's any seat of doubt at all, he's gonna get off. And there's no cameras or anything. So how do you prove all that?
- [32:35]
Garrett Moreland
Right?
- [32:35]
Unknown
Or you can't. It's all you can't prove.
- [32:37]
Garrett Moreland
That's kind of why they were saying they needed a confession.
- [32:40]
Unknown
This just goes back to so many other thoughts I have about the legal system and attorneys. I mean, because the attorneys know that. I don't get this. I don't. Attorneys out there.
- [32:52]
Garrett Moreland
I say it every time.
- [32:54]
Unknown
Yeah, but none of them will explain to me my DMs are cold with attorneys. There's no attorneys in my DMs. So I think someone's right and someone's wrong.
- [33:04]
Garrett Moreland
No one's defending themselves.
- [33:05]
Unknown
No one's.
- [33:06]
Garrett Moreland
They're defense attorneys. And they're not.
- [33:07]
Unknown
They're. No, they're silent. There's crickets, absolute crickets in my DMs from you attorneys out there. Because this attorney knows that he's lying.
- [33:17]
Garrett Moreland
They know they're defending a lie.
- [33:19]
Unknown
Yes.
- [33:21]
Garrett Moreland
We all know you and say, oh, we believe them.
- [33:24]
Unknown
Because is it illegal to defend a lie? No, it's not.
- [33:27]
Garrett Moreland
I mean, your client. It's illegal to. To testify and lie.
- [33:34]
Unknown
I feel like it's illegal to defend a lie, right?
- [33:37]
Garrett Moreland
I don't think so. I think it's Illegal. If your client.
- [33:39]
Unknown
You're telling me we can make stuff up in court and the attorney can be like, yep, yeah, that's. That's what happened.
- [33:45]
Garrett Moreland
I mean, yeah, it happens all the time.
- [33:47]
Unknown
Exactly my point, though. Isn't it illegal? It happens, but is it not illegal?
- [33:51]
Garrett Moreland
I don't know. I feel like, obviously, testifying in court, if someone on the stand lies, that's perjury. Can a lawyer lie? Yeah, they probably will just get interjected and proven wrong.
- [34:04]
Unknown
How is that allowed?
- [34:06]
Garrett Moreland
But it's really.
- [34:07]
Unknown
How is that allowed? You know what I'm saying?
- [34:08]
Garrett Moreland
I mean, all they do is lie. Both prosecutors and defense attorneys.
- [34:12]
Unknown
No, I agree. I agree it happens on both sides, but I feel like it shouldn't be allowed. Anyways, sorry, we got off topic for a second. Feel free to shoot me a dm.
- [34:21]
Garrett Moreland
Okay, so I'm actually as. Garrett and I have been watching these road rage things on Twitch every Thursday, and now I'm doing a case that the defense is road rage. I. I kind of did some digging when I was looking into this case, and here's some interesting things I found. AAA did a study back in the 1990s that found over the course of a seven year period, again, this is the 1990s, there were 218 murders that happened as a result of road rage. 1990s, seven year period, 218 murders because of road rage.
- [34:57]
Unknown
A lot.
- [34:58]
Garrett Moreland
But there are other reports that state up to 1500 injuries and deaths are traced to road rage in any given year. 1500 people are hurt or killed in road rage incidents almost every year. That's a lot.
- [35:15]
Unknown
That's a ton.
- [35:16]
Garrett Moreland
So it does kind of make this concept a little scarier. Think about it. Every time you go for a drive, unless you live in the middle of nowhere, you have dozens of little interactions maybe of which you take personally. And you never really know who these people are that you're driving next to, who you're flipping off, who you're cutting off. Plus, there's this weird anonymity we feel in our cars that kind of gives us extra courage in those situations where we just feel like we can do anything and say anything because we're behind.
- [35:44]
Unknown
Our door, especially my truck.
- [35:47]
Garrett Moreland
And when you put all of that together, psychologists actually have a name for it. It's called de individuation, which basically means this loss of our individual accountability in group settings. And it leads us to some pretty wild things we wouldn't do in normal encounters if we were, say, waiting in a line at Starbucks or something. Oh, and get this, people are way less likely to act out in road rage if there's other people in the car with them because that anonymity is kind of taken away. So when you're alone, you're more likely to be rageful while driving than if there's people in your car with you.
- [36:27]
Unknown
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- [38:19]
Garrett Moreland
Lawyers actually lean into this narrative. Everyone can sympathize with a little momentary road rage because the lawyers are going to say, well, everyone's done it. Or at least fearing for their lives if they aren't the ones who initiated it, right? So they argue fiercely that that's what happened to Din that day that he didn't initiate this. He accidentally cut someone's off, and he had to defend himself. But as detectives look further into Din's life, they realize there is so much more to this story. So let's start with the witnesses, or rather the lack thereof. Turns out there were a few people that saw the shooting that day, only they didn't see anyone yelling. There were no reports of any bottles being thrown from one car to another. And when police asked Din, hey, what happened to that wine bottle that hit you in the head that he threw at you? He says, oh, I threw it away after. Now, if this really was the smoking gun to Din's story, don't you think he would have held on to it to show police? Only he says he got rid of it because he didn't think the police would believe him. And he wasn't wrong. But there was more. When Yancy's body was found in his car, both of his hands, again, were firmly gripped on the steering wheel. If you're believing Din's story, oh, that.
- [39:37]
Unknown
Would not be the case.
- [39:38]
Garrett Moreland
That's not really the position he would be in. He said Yancy was reaching for something, and that's why Din got scared and grabbed his gun and fired. And honestly, this detail about Yancey's hands being gripped on the steering wheel is so sad.
- [39:54]
Unknown
He was scared for his life.
- [39:55]
Garrett Moreland
It's actually really, really devastating. And you also have to consider how Dan acted in the hours after that accident. He fled the scene. This is not something someone might consider after defending themselves. But even worse, he went out to dinner with his wife that night. And that same day, he turned off his cell phone, then bought a new one in which he registered under a different name entirely. Peter Nguyen. And then that following morning, he used the same fake name when he went to get his windows replaced. I guess he even tried to convince one of his friends to trade cars with him for a little while. And then three weeks later, Den went to a tire store to buy brand new tires for his pretty newish car. Which made sense, considering the media had just released details about the tire tracks left at the scene of the crime. And when they cracked into Din's computer, they found a ton of new evidence that sort of changed the entire narrative. Okay, not only do they realize that Din is obsessed with James Bond, turns out Din had been downloading books and articles for years on how to kill someone and get away with it. He had searched for how to delete his Internet history before reading one document called how to Arrest Proof yourself. And he had watched dozens of videos that showed how to kill someone in a drive by shooting the exact same way.
- [41:19]
Unknown
Oh, my gosh.
- [41:20]
Garrett Moreland
He killed Yancy Knoll. So we're sitting here thinking this is a road rage incident. Right? You get so mad you can't control it.
- [41:27]
Unknown
He just wanted to kill somebody.
- [41:29]
Garrett Moreland
Premeditated, if you're looking.
- [41:32]
Unknown
He literally just wanted to kill somebody.
- [41:34]
Garrett Moreland
It's premeditated if you're looking at his computer history. Yeah, this was all before that.
- [41:40]
Unknown
And it makes sense now why. Okay, time out. Because it also gets even crazier because it makes sense why? Why his wife wrote what she wrote because she knew that he was into that, and she apparently was into that as well.
- [41:54]
Garrett Moreland
So get this. They find even more when they went through Den's work computer. His hard drive had two books titled Murder Incorporated and the Death Dealer's Manual, along with other documents titled Forensic Gunshot Residue Analysis, Chemical Analysis of Firearms, Ammunition, and Gunshot Residue, Gunshot Wounds, Practical Aspects of Firearms, Ballistics and Forensic Techniques. Detectives realized Din was studying how to murder somebody, that it didn't matter who it was, that he probably didn't even get up that morning on August 31st and think, today's the day I'm gonna do it. But that evening, an opportunity presented itself to Den, and Yancy was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Oh, and by the way, there was something else police found at Din's office. The murder weapon, or at least part of it, inside a storage container, was the slide from the Glock that he had used at the crime scene. And it matched perfectly with the bullets that had been collected. So now we have a pretty, like, strong piece of evidence. So when it came time for Den's trial to begin on November 19, 2014, he was facing first degree murder charges.
- [43:09]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [43:10]
Garrett Moreland
By that point, though, a lot of the cockiness detectives saw in the interrogation room two years earlier had worn off. When Din appeared before the jury, he kind of looked more like a little schoolboy. His defense attorneys had made him look clean cut, like with his tail tucked between his legs. He suddenly seemed remorseful. Both of his parents were in the courtroom that day, while his wife, Jennifer was nowhere to be found. Okay, but. But Den stuck to the story his defense had helped him draft up, that he believed Yancy Knoll was going to kill him that day if he didn't pull the trigger first. He told the jury, quote, I felt like it was just this crazy, bad dream and I was running from a monster. He said he didn't plan to kill Yancy. He just wanted to injure him so he could escape that. He sort of blacked out. And when he opened his eyes and looked down, he realized the gun was in his hand. And that's when he stepped on the gas and fled. He later threw away the wine bottle and the water bottle any shred of evidence that his story was true. Because again, he didn't think the police would believe him anyway. But when the prosecution brought up the giant archive of evidence from Den's computers, proof that this had probably been premeditated, well, Din said he didn't remember ever downloading any of it, let alone reading it. And his defense argued there was no way to prove he had ever read or watched any of that. Which is a wild explanation from a defense team. Especially because Din hired the same lawyers that represented Ted Bundy.
- [44:42]
Unknown
Interesting. Okay.
- [44:43]
Garrett Moreland
Though I guess they didn't do much in the way of getting him acquitted either. While they thought Din's self defense in a moment of road rage would be relatable to the jury, it turns out the prosecution's motive resonated with the jury a lot more. They argued Din didn't have motive at all, only a desire to kill someone. There was no road rage here to be found. It didn't matter who. It didn't matter when Thomas Din found his victim that day and he used the excuse of road rage to hide behind his morbid curiosity. He'd fulfilled. So basically, the prosecutors get up and they're like, hey, if you've had road rage, great. Din didn't even have road rage.
- [45:23]
Unknown
He just wanted.
- [45:24]
Garrett Moreland
He just wanted to murder someone. So don't let them get in your head about this. So on December 9, 2014, Den's 32nd birthday, the jurors left the courtroom to deliberate. And three days later they returned. Thomas Den Bowman was guilty of first degree murder. Three weeks later, he'd be back in court for his sentencing. Now Den's mother begged the judge to sentence her. Instead, she told the judge, quote, our son's acts are our fault. My husband and I, we provided and allowed him to learn about guns for self protection. I please ask you to allow myself to substitute any punishment by placing myself in Den's role. But then when it came time for him to read a statement to the judge, all he talked about was how frustrated he was that the jury didn't believe his story. His lawyer had to do Den's begging and pleading for him, saying Din had shown guilt and remorse while serving time in prison. He had even attempted suicide in there. But the judge didn't believe there was any real remorse in Thomas Den Bowman. They handed down a 29 year sentence instead. And as for Jennifer Bowman, the wife, the state attorney chose not to pursue charges for her knowledge of or connection to the crime. Since then, she's actually changed her name, gotten a new job, and divorced Den.
- [46:42]
Unknown
I'm sure she has changed her name.
- [46:44]
Garrett Moreland
Meanwhile, Thomas Bowman, a child prodigy who once had a world of possibilities ahead of him, now rots away in a jail cell in Clallam County, Washington.
- [46:57]
Unknown
You can't run away, miss. Bang, bang.
- [46:59]
Garrett Moreland
Here's the thing. Like, how devastating for Yancey's family. For Yancey, I mean, from all. According to all sources.
- [47:10]
Unknown
Boy, this is so random.
- [47:11]
Garrett Moreland
She was just a guy who loved life like he had a fiance. He was about to get married. He was in his 40s. He spent every weekend just loving adventure. Then he went to work and he worked hard and he dies because Din just wants to kill somebody.
- [47:28]
Unknown
He's driving. He's literally just driving.
- [47:30]
Garrett Moreland
Both hands on the steering wheel. It's heartbreaking and it pisses me off.
- [47:37]
Unknown
Yeah, I mean, 100%.
- [47:40]
Garrett Moreland
I think I'm just starting to get real pissed off at these true crime stories.
- [47:44]
Unknown
How I feel. This is why I Never mind another podcast another time.
- [47:47]
Garrett Moreland
It's just senseless.
- [47:49]
Unknown
No, I mean, most. Okay, I guess not most. Murder. I mean, murder is a senseless and selfish act in general, but when it's random. But I guess when it's right, we cover cases where it's like husband and wife or. I don't know when it's. Obviously those are all horrible, but you can kind of, I guess, wrap your mind around what's going on, if that makes sense. Right.
- [48:13]
Garrett Moreland
In the way that the defense attorney was trying to make us believe in road rage. Hey, we've all been there. You've been mad at your husband before. You've been mad at your wife before.
- [48:21]
Unknown
Not saying you should ever kill them. Like, those levels are insane.
- [48:24]
Garrett Moreland
Psychologically, it's easier to understand.
- [48:27]
Unknown
Correct. That's what I'm trying to say with this one. Driving home, ran some random person's like, hey, I feel like killing a random person. Bang, bang. I'm going, no, I'm on my way home. I just killed someone. Wow, that felt so good.
- [48:39]
Garrett Moreland
Psychologically, there is no piece of any of us who can relate or comprehend that. We can't comprehend it.
- [48:46]
Unknown
And if you can relate and you're listening to this podcast, we got other issues going on.
- [48:50]
Garrett Moreland
You need to call a hotline and then go the correct steps.
- [48:55]
Unknown
After that, you turn yourself in and never leave prison.
- [48:57]
Garrett Moreland
All right, you guys. And that is the case of Yang Yancy Knoll. Please take today to think about Yancy and his family members who suffered at the hand of this senseless act. And we will see you next time with another episode. I love it and I hate it. Goodbye.
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Garrett Moreland
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