259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!

Summary

Murder With My Husband: Episode 259 - "The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!"

Release Date: March 10, 2025
Host/Authors: Peyton Moreland & Garrett Moreland
Podcast Description: A true crime podcast delving into sinister crimes, featuring a wife intrigued by true crime and a husband who isn't a fan.

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Introduction

In Episode 259 of Murder With My Husband, titled "The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!", hosts Peyton and Garrett Moreland explore a chilling true crime case involving familial manipulation, mental health struggles, and an attempted murder orchestrated by a mental health professional.

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Setting the Scene: New York City, 2012

The episode transports listeners back to 2012 in New York City, focusing on Jacob Nolan, a 20-year-old grappling with severe mental health issues. Jacob, the third of three children in a seemingly stable and affluent family, was diagnosed with ADHD at age five. Despite his early academic ingenuity—winning awards for an iPhone study app—his condition worsened into depression and bipolar disorder by his teenage years.

Notable Quote:

"Jake put that innovative side of himself to the test, and he actually created an iPhone app that was meant to be a study tool for his classmates. He even won a prestigious award for it." [06:25]

As his mental health deteriorated, Jacob resorted to self-medication with drugs and alcohol, leading his parents to seek a more stable environment for him.

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Enter Pamela Buckbinder: The Manipulative Psychiatrist

Jacob's parents decided that staying with his cousin Pamela Buckbinder, a 43-year-old psychiatrist, might aid his recovery. Pamela agreed to provide daily therapy and manage his medications in exchange for Jacob's assistance with household duties and helping raise her son, Calder.

Notable Quote:

"He could come stay with her, get daily therapy sessions while she helped monitor his medication, which this is like, amazing." [08:24]

Initially, the arrangement seemed beneficial. Pamela's influence appeared positive, giving Jacob a sense of purpose and stability. However, the relationship soon took a sinister turn.

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The Dark Turn: Manipulation and Indoctrination

Over the course of a year, Pamela systematically manipulated Jacob. She inundated him with fabricated tales of abuse by her ex-boyfriend, Michael Weiss, creating a narrative that positioned Michael as a threat to Calder's safety. Pamela's tactics blurred the lines between professional guidance and personal manipulation, effectively brainwashing Jacob.

Notable Quote:

"Pamela did have an agenda. She knew exactly what she was trying to do by sending Jake these lovey, flirty, sweet texts." [16:16]

The pivotal moment came when Pamela convinced Jacob that eliminating Michael was the only way to protect Calder. She provided him with a map, a sledgehammer, and even specified the song to play during the attack.

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The Attempted Murder: A Tragic Outcome

On the night of November 11, 2012, Jacob followed Pamela's instructions to attack Michael Weiss. Armed with a 10-pound sledgehammer and a knife, Jacob confronted Michael at his psychiatry office. The confrontation escalated into a violent altercation, resulting in both men being stabbed. A neighbor intervened, calling 911 and separating the two men.

Notable Quote:

"Jake's like, well, I don't know what to do. So he says, no, no, I came over here to get this signed and..." [28:58]

Despite Jake's intention to kill, the attack failed, leaving both him and Michael wounded. Jacob's subsequent behavior—taking a selfie covered in blood and reaching out to Pamela from the hospital—highlighted the extent of his manipulation and loss of autonomy.

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Legal Proceedings: The Trial of Jacob Nolan

Jacob was charged with second-degree murder, facing substantial bail and potential prison time. His defense team mounted an insanity plea, arguing that Pamela's manipulation and his mental health conditions rendered him incapable of understanding his actions.

Notable Quote:

"The defense even calls an expert to the stand who compares Pamela to a cult leader." [34:15]

However, statements made by Jacob during therapy sessions contradicted the insanity defense. He admitted to discussing various methods to kill Michael, undermining claims that he was entirely controlled by Pamela's influence.

Ultimately, the jury convicted Jacob of attempted murder, sentencing him to nine and a half years in prison. He expressed deep regret over his actions and continued fears of Pamela's influence.

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Pamela Buckbinder's Downfall

Despite initial leniency, Pamela's involvement became undeniable when security footage from Home Depot placed her at the scene where Jacob purchased the murder weapon. This evidence led to her arrest in October 2017. Facing charges related to her role in the attempted murder, Pamela changed her plea to guilty but later retracted it, citing various hardships. The court dismissed her withdrawal, sentencing her to eleven years in prison.

Notable Quote:

"Most of you have unique needs... Get more with Geico." [44:35]

Michael Weiss, the victim, attended Pamela's sentencing and shared the lasting impact of the attack on his life.

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Aftermath and Reflections

The case underscores the profound dangers of manipulation by trusted mental health professionals. It highlights vulnerabilities in individuals struggling with mental health issues and raises critical questions about the ethical responsibilities of those in caregiving roles.

Final Thoughts:

"We often are talking about mental health in these cases, but this was one case where a lot of people believe that if mental health had not been a component, there actually would have not been any attempted murder." [45:42]

The episode concludes by reflecting on the intricate interplay between mental health, trust, and manipulation, leaving listeners to ponder the complexities of such tragic events.

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Conclusion

Episode 259 of Murder With My Husband provides a captivating and harrowing exploration of a true crime case where mental health vulnerabilities were exploited by a trusted family member and professional. Through detailed narration and insightful commentary, Peyton and Garrett Moreland shed light on the devastating consequences of such manipulation, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of the events that unfolded.

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Notable Advertisements Skipped:

• Shopify Promotion
• ZocDoc Advertisement
• Jolie Shower Head Endorsement
• Warby Parker Sponsorship
• Babbel Language Learning Promo
• Lean Weight Loss Supplement Ad
• GEICO Insurance Promotion

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This summary captures the essence of Episode 259, focusing on key events, discussions, and insights while omitting non-content sections such as advertisements and casual banter.

Transcript

[Peyton Moreland]

Guys, before we dive into today's true crime case, I want to tell you about something that's going to change the way you think about starting a business. And no, it is not a plot twist. It's Shopify. That's right. Whether you're selling jewelry, your killer designs, or, I don't know, spooky crime themed mugs, Shopify helps you set up shop in no time. And Garrett and I have talked about this before. Before we started Murder with my husband, Garrett had an e commerce store online and used Shopify the entire time. I'm honestly not quite sure how you sell a product without using Shopify. So easy. If you've ever wanted to start selling, I don't know, homemade things that you've made as a little side hustle, Shopify makes that easy. It's all you have to do. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Home of the number one checkout on the planet and the not so secret secret with Shop Pay that boosts conversions up to 50%. You guys shopify works with Shop Pay. And honestly, Shop Pay has been the worst thing for my bank account because it makes it so easy to check out. I'm never abandoning my cart. So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell whatever your customers are scrolling or strolling on the web in your store, in their feed and everywhere in between. Businesses that sell more sell on Shopify. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout Red Bull uses. Sign up for your $1 per month trial [e-mail] husband all lowercase. Okay, $1 per month trial period. Go check it out. You just have to do shopify.com husband in all lower case. It'll upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com husband okay guys, when's the last time you needed to go to a doctor but you pushed it off? Literally me every day. You made the excuse, I'm too busy. It'll heal on its own. I don't know which doctor to go to. I think we've all been there. Booking a doctor appointment can just feel so daunting. But thanks to Zocdoc, there's no reason to delay. They make it so easy to find and book a doctor who's right for you. ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. We're talking about booking in network appointments with more than 100,000 doctors across every specialty from mental health to dental health, primary care, to urgent care and more you can filter for doctors who take your insurance are located nearby are a good fit for any medical need you may have. Now once you find the right doctor you can see their actual appointment openings. Choose a time slot that works for you and click to instantly book a visit. You guys, it's doc. Doc is amazing. They basically gathered a whole bunch of doctors and said book right here. You no longer have to visit website after website after website, read review after review after review. It's all in one place you guys. When I needed to find a doctor from my meniscus, I definitely should have used Zocdoc and I will in the.

[Garrett Moreland]

Future stop putting off those doctors appointments and go to Zocdoc.com husband to find an instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's Zoc. D o c.com husband zocdoc.com husband go check it out.

[Peyton Moreland]

You're listening to an Ono Media podcast. Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with my husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.

[Garrett Moreland]

And I'm Garrett Moreland.

[Peyton Moreland]

And he's the husband.

[Garrett Moreland]

And I'm the husband.

[Peyton Moreland]

Well, I'm looking out the window right now and it's snowing.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's like not good snow. It's like snowing and then just not sticking. Looks lush.

[Peyton Moreland]

It's sloppy snow sucks.

[Garrett Moreland]

But everybody hope everyone is. I mean, Monday. So hope everyone has a good week. Hope everyone had a good weekend.

[Peyton Moreland]

You ever thought about the fact we were just like bumping in people's ears or speakers? Weird. Like I listened to podcasts and then the other day I had this like weird experience where I was listening. I was like, wait, there's people where. This is my voice.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, it's kind of interesting. I don't know. I guess we don't really. I don't really think about it. I just. I just do. You know what I'm saying?

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah.

[Garrett Moreland]

But it is kind of weird. It is weird. For anyone interested in who wants bonus episodes and ad free content, you can check out our Patreon or Apple subscriptions or Spotify subscriptions and the link below, wherever you're listening or watching. And I think we still have some ghosty sweaters left. At least as of now. Could be gone by the time this episode's out. You can check those out as well.

[Peyton Moreland]

You guys.

[Garrett Moreland]

Those are the announcements.

[Peyton Moreland]

Bonus episodes. You get extra Murder with my husband episodes and ad free on all of our shows.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's true.

[Peyton Moreland]

That's double click right now. You're dumb if you don't understand. You're not dumb. You're loved and so good and smart. You got your 10 seconds.

[Garrett Moreland]

I don't think. I don't know if I can follow.

[Peyton Moreland]

The crowds are saying shut her up.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, I got a whoop. If for those who don't know what a whoop is like an Apple Watch without a screen, but it just tracks all your health and I like it a lot. It's not an ad, it's just I got a whoop and I like it because the Apple Watch is a little too heavy. Also, like, I don't check my messages on there. I don't check calls. I do everything on my phone. I always have my phone with me. So it's nice. The whoop just does everything. I think it even does more than what the Apple Watch does. Puts it all on the app and yeah, so anyways, I got a whoop. I've been using it for pickleball and weightlifting, so I guess that's my fun fact of the day. For those who are curious, I am still eating healthy and weighing my food. It's depressing, but it's also happy at the same time. Hard to explain. Have a lot of energy. I feel good. But do I want to just go and eat a dozen donuts? Yes, yes, I do that. I want to order three pizzas last night. Yes, yes I did. I didn't though. I blame the USA for having a lot of good food. That's all. I don't know nothing else other than that. That's what I got going. On that note, let's hop into today's episode.

[Peyton Moreland]

Our sources for this episode are the newyorkpost.com CBS News manhattanda.org ABC News psychsearch.net casetext.com medscape.com abc7new york.com nbcnewyork.com newyorktimes.com timesofisrael.com Miami Herald wtvr.com lawgestia.com and syracuse.com okay, do you know me at all? Actually, me and Garrett, you know that we are big on mental wellness. I think it's important to journal check in with yourself. Give your mind a day off when you need it. And frankly, I think we are lucky to live in a world where mental health is finally getting taken a little more seriously. Just a few short decades ago, if you were to ask off of work for a mental health day, you probably would have been laughed out of the office or fired. But now people understand that mental well being is just as if not sometimes more important than your physical well being, especially in cases where the mind affects the body. But when it comes to the nuances of mental health conditions, like really understanding how they all work and operate, we have a long way to go. That's where therapy and psychiatry come in. Sometimes the only option someone has is to place all their trust in these professionals. And I have definitely been there. Sometimes that is the only path towards a normal life. It seems what you never expect is for a mental health professional to break that trust, to manipulate that bond for their own gain. Especially when you're at your most vulnerable and especially when they are also a member of your own family. Okay, let's get into it. Let's take a trip to New York City. We're gonna dial back the clock to 2012. Garrett is about to graduate high school.

[Garrett Moreland]

Trim.

[Peyton Moreland]

He's wearing, he's wearing, he's wearing what? He's wearing skinny jeans and Vans. What were you wearing?

[Garrett Moreland]

2012 you're seeing. I don't know if I was wearing. Was I wearing skinny jeans 2012? No, I think I was wearing more like slim fit jeans. 2012. I think the skinny phase was like 2007, 2008.

[Peyton Moreland]

What about shoes?

[Garrett Moreland]

Bands. Definitely had bands. Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

I was wearing eyeliner. Dark black eyeliner all the way around my eyes. Absolutely no makeup on my eyebrows. And toms.

[Garrett Moreland]

Toms. So many people. I never.

[Peyton Moreland]

You never got into toms.

[Garrett Moreland]

So many people in my school were toms. And I was like, you know what? I'm not wearing toms.

[Peyton Moreland]

I was a Tom's girl through and through.

[Garrett Moreland]

Guess what, though? Kind of happy about it because TOMS fell off and Vans never did.

[Peyton Moreland]

Oh, see, I'm happy about it because I can be like, no, I was one of the TOMS girls.

[Garrett Moreland]

I said, I think I was just not that I was anti tom. They also just, I don't know, conversation for them. But sorry, before we get back into it, they did donate a lot of shoes, so that's a good thing.

[Peyton Moreland]

So we're in New York City, 2012. It's there that we meet a 20 year old man named Jacob Nolan. Now, Jake did not have an easy time up until this point in his life. Though you might not have predicted that from his early years, because seemingly Jake grew up in a stable household, the third of three children to Debbie and Jim Nolan, who was a wealthy real estate investor. But it was clear from an early age, money and wealth aside, Jake was not like the other children. He was incredibly smart, gifted by some accounts. But if you Asked his parents. He was an innovator, always looking to build or create something new. But by the time Jake turned five, his parents noticed a few signs in him that became alarming. And while I don't know what Jake's symptoms were, I know he was diagnosed at that early of an age with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, better known as ADHD. Now, let's just be clear. ADHD is a fairly common condition affecting about 11% of kids between the ages of 5 and 17. It can lead to lack of focus, make it hard to pay attention in school, control your impulses, as well as mood swings and hyperactivity. But it is one of the better understood disorders. So that means it's a bit easier to treat than other conditions. Though not in everyone's case, like Jake Nolan's. As Jake got into his teenage years, his family noticed that his mood swings were getting more unpredictable. The highs were higher and the lows were a lot lower. For example, while in high school, Jake put that innovative side of himself to the test, and he actually created an iPhone app that was meant to be a study tool for his classmates. He even won a prestigious award for it. But that feeling of success only lasted for so long. A month later, Jake was having a hard time getting out of bed in the mornings, let alone packing his bags and heading off to school. It was at that point he was diagnosed with depression and anxiety. And while I don't know what Jake's treatment plan was, I do know that by age 17, he had made a suicide attempt. Jake was hospitalized after the event, but was then given a more severe diagnosis, bipolar disorder. Now, bipolar disorder can include drastic mood swings like elevated euphoria to severe depression, along with other symptoms like anxiety, irritability, even cognitive issues like memory loss or poor judgment. So by the time Jake actually entered his college years, his doctors have tried upward of 30 different medications to try and manage this.

[Garrett Moreland]

That's a lot.

[Peyton Moreland]

What though, none of them really seemed to help in the way he'd hoped. And honestly, this is like devastating. It is absolutely devastating. And things only got worse for Jake once he was alone. That's when he began self medicating with things like drugs and alcohol. And making it to class became the least of Jake's problems. But that's when his parents had an idea. Maybe Jake should just go stay with his cousin Pamela in her New York City apartment for a bit. After all, if anyone could help Jake full time, it was her, because she was a psychiatrist. They're like, get him out of his environment. Let's switch it up. Let's have him go stay with his cousin Pamela, who is a psychiatrist who knows more about this and maybe she can help him turn things around.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

But I don't, I don't think that commonly bipolar disorder is as easy as like, let's just turn things around. But they're hoping that this can help. So Pamela Buckbinder was a bit older than Jake by about 23 years. But the two had seemingly been close for a lot of Jake's life. So close that he was practically the godfather to her 4 year old son, Calder. So 43 year old Pamela made an agreement with Jake and his parents. He could come stay with her, get daily therapy sessions while she helped monitor his medication, which this is like, amazing. And in return, he could help around the house and kind of help her raise Calder. Now, Pamela wasn't married. In fact, she and her ex boyfriend, Michael Wise had Calder together. But since they had broken up about a year or so prior, they had been splitting custody of their son. So in a way, this situation was beneficial for both Jake and Pamela. The two could rely on one another and it seemed to honestly be doing good for Jake, at least at first. He moved there and Jake started holding, building himself to a higher standard. Now that Calder was looking up to him, he felt purpose in life, like he had to set a good example for him. Jake had always wanted to have his own family, but his mental health seemed to stand in the way of making that possible. But now, in a way, he had achieved those dreams by getting closer with Calder and Pamela. But over time, it became clear there was something wrong with the dynamic between Jake and his cousin Pamela. It seemed to start with a photo of Jake and Pamela in bed together with Calder one morning. So whether or not he posted this on social media, I'm not really sure. But I know that the image started to go around and it definitely made Jake's parents like, why is he in bed with his 43 year old cousin and her son? Like, this doesn't look like their cousins hanging out with the child. This looks like a different type of page.

[Garrett Moreland]

We've got to be in Alabama or something.

[Peyton Moreland]

They became even more suspicious when they actually found some texts between Pamela and Jake on Jake's cell phone. Messages that read things like, you are remarkable. My love for you is huge. You're the most fun person to love.

[Garrett Moreland]

What is going on?

[Peyton Moreland]

I have so many thoughts about you. But here's the thing. Jake tells everyone he that he and Pamela were never physical or romantic with one another, that it was just words and nothing more. But the truth was, Pamela did have an agenda. She knew exactly what she was trying to do by sending Jake these lovey, flirty, sweet texts. And the psychiatrist, Pamela was not actually falling in love with her cousin. She was trying to manipulate him, weaponize him, all for her own gain, knowing that he was struggling with his mental well being.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay, what? I don't understand what gain, though. I mean, I guess we'll get into it, because if she's not in love with him, what is she gaining from this? So that's my question.

[Peyton Moreland]

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[Garrett Moreland]

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[Peyton Moreland]

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[Garrett Moreland]

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[Peyton Moreland]

So, as I mentioned, the psychiatrist had fallen in love years before with another New York City psychiatrist named Michael Weiss. He was the father of her four year old son. Now, I'm not sure how long Pamela and Michael were together for, but I know it was a while because while they never got married, Michael was seen as family. I mean, he had attended parties for Jake. So he had been around for at least close to a decade, if not longer, since Jake was now in his 20s. So he had been a part of Pamela's family. Though despite both of them being mental health professionals, the relationship they shared was actually pretty toxic. Not only was it on again, off again, both sides claimed that there were instances of domestic violence from the other.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

And though Pamela had actually been arrested for it before, during one fight, she attacked Michael with a broken glass and he ended up needing stitches, I guess. On another occasion, Michael was arrested after Pamela reported him for attempting to assault her.

[Garrett Moreland]

You know, which is maybe opening up a can of worms, but which is really interesting and happens a lot. Whether you're a mental health professional, you're a doctor, what are the, whatever industry you're working in. Like there's a lot of doctors who are really unhealthy. There's mental health professionals who we are good at teaching what they do, but then they're struggling or they're having issues in their marriage. So it's really interesting that, I don't know, it just, it happens with everything within any industry.

[Peyton Moreland]

You know, I will say though, there are a lot of people who are really good at inspiring and teaching.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yes.

[Peyton Moreland]

And not doing. You know what I mean? And I do think that's a talent in and of itself. Like, there are dance coaches out there who cannot dance to save their life, but they can teach dance really well. And I think that that's with any.

[Garrett Moreland]

Profession, which is kind of interesting.

[Peyton Moreland]

Don't worry, you guys. I can teach you how to podcast and I can podcast.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's basically do as I say, not as I do.

[Peyton Moreland]

Right. So that's kind of what's going on with them. Both of them have been in trouble with the law for hurting the other person. The whole thing's really ugly. Not the kind of loving partnership you would want bring a kid into. And nonetheless, Pamela had their son in 2008, but she and Michael actually broke up for good shortly after she had their baby. By 2012, during the time Jake was in New York City living with Pamela, she and Michael were actually in a heated custody battle over Calder. And Jake was hearing every single update of what was going on, or at least Pamela's side of things. She told Jake that Michael was refusing to pay child support, that he wouldn't sign the finance financial aid papers she needed to get Calder into school, which were supposedly all lies and soon got a lot more intense. Pamela told Jake Michael had been abusing Calder when he stayed with him. So Pamela tells Jake, the boy that she's sending sweet lovey messages to that also happens to be her cousin, that her ex husband is abusing her child when he goes and stays with him. Okay, there's absolutely zero evidence of that, but Pamela doesn't tell Jake that. She just told him over and over practically daily how horrible it was, to the point where Jake was really worried about Calder and it was all he could focus on. But Pamela knew exactly what she was doing. This seemed to be a part of a long con she had been assembling for months. She welcomed Jake into her home. She preyed on his mental health condition, she manipulated him into believing her and taking her side, and then she was going to use him as a weapon to carry out a sadistic plan. And it was working.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay, I think I know where this is going.

[Peyton Moreland]

So from what I could gather, took me a second. This was at least a year. Jake lived with Pamela for a year, and this was happening the entire time. And by November 2012, Jake was fully indoctrinated into Pamela's way of thinking. She had told him enough horror stories about Michael. She completely honestly, kind of brainwashed Jake.

[Garrett Moreland]

That's so sad.

[Peyton Moreland]

And that's when she sat Jake down and told him there's only one way to keep Calder safe. Like, this has gotten way too far. This is such a dangerous situation. We need to get rid of Michael Wise once and for all.

[Garrett Moreland]

This is such a long con plan. It's so messed up now, but also the fact that, like, she's sticking to this and she's like, I'm going to brainwash him into killing my ex husband. Yeah, that's wild.

[Peyton Moreland]

Now I'm just going to like, quickly point out Jake is a full grown adult, but he is in a power dynamic. Not only is Pamela years older than him, in her 40s, she's also established she's a psychiatrist. She has seen him and helped him through extremely hard times. So you automatically look up to that person and put them on a pedestal for saving you. It is honestly a really easy situation to manipulate for a therapist therapist to manipulate a patient, especially if she's kind of flirting with him and almost leading him to believe that their relationship is even more than that. So Jake listened patiently as Pamela laid out the different plans. See, she didn't just want Michael out of the picture. She actually told Jake that she wanted Michael, her ex boyfriend, to suffer. She talked about the gruesome possibilities. Injecting him.

[Garrett Moreland]

He's insane.

[Peyton Moreland]

Injecting him with poison, making him die a slow death, burning him alive in front of a crowd.

[Garrett Moreland]

How can this lady be a psychiatrist? What?

[Peyton Moreland]

Do as I say, not as I do.

[Garrett Moreland]

But I mean, another can of worms. I'm going to open it. I think certain professions, being a doctor, psychiatrist, I don't know, attorneys, I know they do have like precautions and stuff in place, but you almost need to like, if you're like a psychiatrist like every year, you need to go in for a psych eval. You know what I'm saying?

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah, but do they know how to lie?

[Garrett Moreland]

They do. They do. So I don't know. Maybe it doesn't. Stop it. That's crazy. It's crazy. Okay?

[Peyton Moreland]

There's a lot of people out there who offer guidance. Sometimes they're not even licensed to do so. And people will follow.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

Look at cult leaders.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

So Pamela was showing no mercy. But she also knew that none of these were fast or practical. So on the night of November 11, 2012, she and Jake settled on a plan that they could actually execute. That night, Jake went to Home Depot and bought a 10 pound sledgehammer.

[Garrett Moreland]

Holy crap.

[Peyton Moreland]

When he got home, Pamela hand drew him a map of how to get to Michael's West 57th street high rise where he both lived and worked. So the following morning, Jake wakes up early. He laid in bed as Pamela stroked his back, fed him words of encouragement, remember their cousins. She told him how much she loved him, how he was saving their lives, and how life was going to get better. Once Michael was, quote, terminated. She gave Jake a knife to take, along with that duffel bag filled with his 10 pound sledgehammer and that hand drawn map. She even told Jake what song she wanted him to play when the murder was committed.

[Garrett Moreland]

What is going on?

[Peyton Moreland]

Maxwell's Silver Hammer by the Beatles. And then she sent the 20 year old Jake on his way. So Jake said he started to have second thoughts about the whole thing. While he was on the way, he was nervous. He wanted to back out. The problem was he knew he couldn't go back to Pamela without saying the job was done. So he kept moving forward. When he got to 57th street, he checked the map Pamela had drawn him, which happened to show multiple different entrances to the building, including the ones that had the least security measures. Now, whether or not Jake followed those instructions, though, is unclear, because when he got inside, he actually checked in with the security guard at the front desk. He said he was heading to a tutoring center called Bright Kids. He even signed in using his real name. Then Jake got in the elevator and hit the button for the 12th floor, headed straight for Michael Weiss's psychiatry office. Now, when Jake got there, he noticed that Michael was actually in session with a patient. But rather than take a seat in his waiting room, Jake left the office and went to the building stairwell while he waited for Michael's session to end. After the patient left, Jake went back inside. Remember, Michael knows Jake. He'd known him since he was a kid. He's gonna recognize him. So when he sees Jake, he's of course, like, what are you doing here? What? Why did my ex girlfriend send you? But Jake and Pamela had planned for that. Jake told Michael he needed him to print out and sign some forms for Calder's financial aid. Michael's like, okay, let's go. Let's get this over with. Jake says, great, I'm going to use the bathroom while you do that. In the meantime, he locks himself in there and he starts pulling out his weapons. Jake then comes out of the restroom, he approaches Michael, and he swings that sledgehammer at him, but he misses. Michael saw him, he ducks out of the way. Jake only manages to hit him on the tip of the shoulder. So Michael starts fighting back. Now, eventually, Jake drops the sledgehammer because it's not a very practical weapon. And he gets a hold of his knife and starts jabbing at Michael. He stabs him about seven or eight times in the stomach, his back, his chest, before Michael actually starts to overpower Jake.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, shoot.

[Peyton Moreland]

Despite the fact he stabbed, which I do want to say, Michael is 6 foot 3, he's 205 pounds. Jake is nowhere that big.

[Garrett Moreland]

Let's go.

[Peyton Moreland]

So Michael, despite being stabbed, wrestles the knife from Jake's hand and he begins stabbing him. Yeah, so it's self defense. So by now, the two aren't even inside Michael's office slash home anymore. They have now made their way out into the hallway. Obviously this is loud. A neighbor comes out, sees what's going on, actually gets the two men separated and calls 911-911-RACE emergency. This guy's screaming like crazy for help. I think it's a psychologist who might have had a client who was nuts. Both men at this point are stabbed.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, this is.

[Peyton Moreland]

Both are alive.

[Garrett Moreland]

A mess. Which I'm glad no one died, first of all. Second of all, I mean, obviously she's insane. I don't know what to say about him because, I mean, he's clearly brainwashed. Like, I think obviously he. He can make his own choices, but it's hard when you get to that extent. I mean, can you make your own choices? Is it his own choices?

[Peyton Moreland]

Well, let me tell you the aftermath, what happens next? And I think it will go to show you that I don't think Jake really in his right frame of mind. Okay, so Jake does something that shows you just how bizarre this is. So when they separate, they're both stabbed. The neighbor's calling police. He doesn't try to run away. He doesn't try to get out of the building. He just sits there with Michael after this fight, waiting for ambulances to arrive. And in the meantime, he gets his phone out. He takes a selfie of himself covered in blood and sends it to Pamela and asks her, okay, he's not dead. We're just like, I'm just sitting here. The police are coming. What should I do?

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, poor guy. I mean, I. They're both alive, so I can kind of say poor guy. But I know he know he's clearly brainwashed. Like, he's clearly 100% brainwashed.

[Peyton Moreland]

He is an adult. But like, no adult in their right mind would sit and ask Pamela what to do next. You would be like, shoot, I got to get out of here. But he is looking to her so much for what to do.

[Garrett Moreland]

Insane.

[Peyton Moreland]

Pamela doesn't respond. So police arrive. Jake's like, well, I don't know what to do. So he says, no, no, I came over here to get this signed and. And Michael tried to kill me first. Does Michael initiated this fight. Meanwhile, Michael's saying to the police, are you kidding? He came in here with a sledgehammer. I had to fight back. I got the knife from him. But that's all police get out of them before they are both taken to the hospital. Now, none of them have suffered life threatening injuries, though. Ironically, Jake actually was more banged up out of the two of them.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

So it's from the hospital bed that Jake texts Pamela again. And since he still hasn't heard back from her from the first text, which now he's growing frantic, he feels like he's been abandoned. He writes to her in hospital, please come. Michael. Bleeding badly. Same. I walked into office, he stabbed me with my knife in the heart. And this time he gets a response from Pamela, but it's just one word she says, where. So Pamela does eventually go down to the hospital.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, wow.

[Peyton Moreland]

But she's told at that point that she's not allowed to see Jake. Because not only is Jake under arrest for attempted murder and handcuffed to his hospital bed, doctors are determining that he is definitely currently suffering from a mental break that was triggered during the attack. And he is now in a very manic state. Later, Jake says, I was in a full blown psychotic episode. Yeah, like that's what is happening at the hospital now. Michael is stitched up and is discharged within a day or so. But Jake, he stays in the hospital for the next four days. And one of his first stops when he's released is to the courtroom to appear before a judge. He's charged with second degree murder. His bail is set at $200,000. He meets it, and in the meantime, he heads to his parents house in Miami to stay with them. But here's the thing. It takes Jacob weeks to finally tell people. I didn't, like, I wasn't actually really. I didn't come up with the idea to kill Michael. Pamela told me. And when he starts telling people this, they're like, you were manipulated. Like, you were in a full blown psychotic episode. You. You were not in a good mental place. You were manipulated. And he's like, okay. He starts to get his mind around it. He starts to say, wait, yeah, I actually think I didn't want to do this. Pamela on the other end is like, no way. I did not ask him to do this. I would never ask him to do something like this. Plus, there are no texts or emails or any evidence of conversations about it. So it's a bit hard to prov that Jake isn't lying. Like, people are like, no, he's in his right mind and he knew what he was doing. He. He did this, not Pamela. The only real piece of evidence at first tying her to the crime is the fact that there was that hand drawn map from her.

[Garrett Moreland]

So, like, I mean, there was lovey dovey messages, right? Which do spark a little Bit of that's your cousin and you're supposed to be giving him therapy, right?

[Peyton Moreland]

Though when they confront Pamela with like, well, why'd you draw the map? She says she has reason. She's like, calder's daycare is also inside that building. Jake was supposed to pick him up. So she's like, I just needed him to pick up my child. I had no idea he was gonna do this. But Michael, who Jake tried to kill.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

Tells police, I think Jake's actually pretty innocent in this. And this was a hundred percent Pamela, who crazy. Who manipulated him into crazy. Dude takes Jake's side. It wasn't just custody of Calder that Pamela and Michael were actually fighting over at the time. At the time, in fact, they had just recently reached a custody agreement in court, one that ironed out visitation rights, child support payments, and a life insurance policy. Turns out part of the deal was for Michael to take out a 1.5 million dollar life insurance policy for himself and that his son would be the beneficiary. But three days before the attack, Michael actually changed the paperwork to say in the case of his death, Pamela would be the trustee who would then manage the payout for calder until he's 18.

[Garrett Moreland]

She was gonna steal all his money, all her own son's money, basically.

[Peyton Moreland]

So when police go to Jake and they're like, did you know about this, like this whole agreement they had made? He's like, no, I had no idea there was a life insurance policy.

[Garrett Moreland]

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[Peyton Moreland]

So when Garrett and I have gone to Mexico recently, Garrett, as you guys know, speaks Spanish fluently, but I struggle with it. And I love to just brush up on Babel before I get there just so that I can kind of keep up. And it really, really does help. Let's get more of you talking in a new language. Babel is gifting our listeners 60% off [e-mail] husband get up to 60% [e-mail] husband spelled b a b b e l.com husband babel.com husband rules and restrictions may apply. Are you a yo yo dieter? You diet, you lose weight and then gain it all back, plus a few extra pounds. Then later you lose it and regain it again and again. It's dangerous. Studies show that can increase your risk of heart attack, stroke, type 2 diabetes, and other health problems. Breaking free of your yo yo diet pattern is a main reason doctors created Lean. Lean is a supplement, not an injection, and you don't need a prescription. The science behind Lean is impressive. It's studied. Natural ingredients target weight loss in three powerful ways. Lean helps maintain healthy blood sugar. It helps control appetite and cravings. And it helps burn fat by converting fat into energy.

[Garrett Moreland]

Listen, if you're tired of losing weight and gaining it back, if you want to lose meaningful weight at a healthy pace, Lean was created for you. Let us get you started with 20 off when you enter [e-mail] that's code husbandakelean.com so hearing this, the court actually.

[Peyton Moreland]

Grants Michael Weiss full custody of Calder. And they tell Pamela, you are not allowed to make contact with Calder for the next five years. But here's what's odd. Even though the family court thinks Pamela is a danger to society, like they start to believe this story, the police don't. At least not yet. They don't charge her with any crime. She goes on living her life, albeit not with Calder. And meanwhile, Jake is bouncing from one treatment center to another, trying to contend with his drug and alcohol addictions as well as his mental health conditions. At one point, while awaiting trial, he makes another suicide attempt. And this time, his parents don't think he'll survive. He actually is in a coma for several days. But he pulls out of it. And three and a half years after the attack, in March of 2016, he finally makes it to the courtroom. So while the prosecution paints Jacob Nolan as this sort of spoiled rich kid who didn't deserve the jury sympathy, the defense took another approach. They went with an insanity defense, or rather, diminished capacity. This is a huge risk for Jake's defense team. And here's why. Insanity defenses are used today in less than 1% of felonies, and only 25% of those cases are usually successful for the defendant. But here's what an insanity defense means. Basically, it states that the person who committed the crime completely lacked the capacity to understand the consequences of their actions. This is hard to prove. Now the jury does get to hear about all the ways Pamela had manipulated Jacob leading up to the murder. In fact, at one point, the defense even calls an expert to the stand who compares Pamela to a cult leader. He says, sure, it might have been a small cult, only the two of them, but the principles are the same. It's shaping someone's thought process to meet the leader's ideas. The jury also gets to hear all about Jacob's history with mental illness, his bipolar diagnosis. But the prosecution claps back, saying, bipolar disorder does not keep someone from understanding the severity of their actions, nor does it make someone lose complete control over their faculties, which, yes, is true. But when you add in manipulation, brainwashing, especially by someone who this person holds to high esteem, that could change. People who are deemed perfectly mentally well fall for cult leaders. You know what I mean?

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

So the prosecution actually gets some backing on this. They play a tape for the jury. It's a conversation between a different psychiatrist and Jacob in the months leading up to the trial. During one clip, Jake was asked about the zip ties that were in the duffel bag. And he explained that Pamela wanted him to tie up Michael and torture him. Oh, before he actually killed him. He goes on to say, though, that he wasn't willing to torture Michael. He was just willing to kill him for Pamela. That statement right there was enough to completely discount the insanity defense. The prosecution says, no, look like he knew well enough to know, well, I don't want to torture him, but I'll kill him. Here was Jake years later.

[Garrett Moreland]

I kind of disagree with that, but.

[Peyton Moreland]

Okay, admitting he was aware of the decision, that he was willing to draw a line at some point. Torture, no, but murder, yes. The final nail in Jake's coffin, though, was that he told the psychiatrist in a later clip that he and Pamela were coming up with a plan, considering different ways to kill Michael. Right. And Jacob was participating in that brainstorm. When asked outright in those clips if he had helped plan the attack, he said, in a way, yeah, I did. So while Jake himself never took the stand in his trial, it was still his own words that were being said. But you know who else didn't take the stand? Pamela. In fact, she was never even subpoenaed to testify, according to Jake's lawyers. That's because no one could find her to order her to court.

[Garrett Moreland]

She just took off somewhere.

[Peyton Moreland]

Still, the jury believed they had all they needed. By the end of the two week trial. They deliberated for less than an hour and came back with a verdict for Jacob Nolan, guilty of attempted murder. Ultimately, they felt like if Jake could back out of torturing Michael, he could have also backed out of the murder. And yet he still went and gave it a shot. Jacob was sentenced to nine and a half years in prison. He told the press he lived every day with regret for what he had done. And there was something else weighing on him. He told reporters Pamela's still a threat. And he thought it would only be a matter of time before she went after Michael again. But just because Jake was behind bars doesn't mean the investigation was closed. In fact, the police seemingly took what Jake said to Hart, and they kept looking into Pamela, Especially when one giant piece of evidence proved Jake was not alone in this after all. Despite what Pamela had been saying. Turns out Pamela went with Jacob the night before the attempted murder to Home Depot to help him buy that sledgehammer. And because she's seen on security footage standing in line next to him and paying for it with cash. There's no pinning this all on Jacob at this point. No more he said, she said. It's clear Pamela was definitely involved in planning this. Frankly, if she hadn't have gone to Home Depot with Jacob and been caught on security camera, they might not have had enough. So instead, an arrest warrant was finally issued for the 47 year old Pamela in October of 2017, almost five years since that attempted murder. Police track her down to a friend's home in Fayettesville, New York, about four and a half hours outside of the city. And when they knock, Pam's the one who answered. She was placed in handcuffs, brought back to New York City to face the charges for her connection to the attack. The pandemic hits, time goes on, blah, blah, blah, like we see in all these cases in September of 2022. It's now nearly a decade since the attempted murder. She shocks a lot of people when she changes her tune. She goes into a courtroom and changes her plea to guilty. But the twists weren't over yet. Pamela went back into the courtroom a month later after for her sentencing hearing and she says, ah, never mind, I withdraw my plea. You know why she said that? On the day she pleaded guilty, she had first gotten maced in prison and then she didn't take her medication. And then she got a contact high from someone on the bus ride over who was smoking drugs. So she's like, it was just a comedy of errors. The judge isn't buying it. He rejects her plea withdrawal and goes forth with sentencing, giving her 11 years behind bars. Michael Weiss was there. He witnessed the entire thing.

[Garrett Moreland]

But he's almost out of jail now at this point.

[Peyton Moreland]

Well, during his.

[Garrett Moreland]

I'm sorry, Not Michael.

[Peyton Moreland]

Oh, yeah, Jake.

[Garrett Moreland]

Jake, yes.

[Peyton Moreland]

So Michael was there. He says in an impact statement, quote, while I am grateful for this day that's arrived, it has not brought me the sense of relief or the feeling of closure I hoped it would. Although it's been almost 10 years since I was attacked, I still struggle with the emotional and physical scars of what happened to me. On November 12, 2012. Pam will not be eligible for parole until 2027. And I think it's safe to say she will not be allowed to resume her psychiatry practice once she is released. And that is the attempted murder of Michael Weiss.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's kind of sad because the kids also affected and he didn't do anything. Like, now he's gonna grow up basically without a mom because his mom wanted to kill dad. Which is insane.

[Peyton Moreland]

It's a huge, gigantic mess. And again, it. We often are talking about mental health in these cases, but this was. This was one case where a lot of people believe that if mental health had not been a component, there actually would have not been any attempted murder.

[Garrett Moreland]

That's crazy.

[Peyton Moreland]

I guess we'll really never know for sure, though. All right, you guys, that is our case for this week, and we will see you next time with another one.

[Garrett Moreland]

I love it and I hate it.

[Peyton Moreland]

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