274. The Red Flag Romance - Kelly Dwyer

Summary

Podcast Summary: Murder With My Husband – Episode 274: The Red Flag Romance - Kelly Dwyer

Introduction

In Episode 274 of "Murder With My Husband," hosted by Peyton and Garrett Moreland of OH NO MEDIA, the true crime duo delves into the tragic case of Kelly Dwyer. This episode, titled "The Red Flag Romance," explores how overlooked warning signs in a seemingly perfect relationship led to a devastating outcome.

Background: Kelly Dwyer's Fresh Start

Kelly Dwyer, a 27-year-old originally from the Chicago suburbs, sought a fresh start after her parents' tumultuous divorce. Moving to Milwaukee in 2013, Kelly immersed herself in the community, finding solace in yoga, teaching classes, working at Lululemon, and enjoying Milwaukee’s vibrant nightlife. Her efforts to rebuild her life were evident when she celebrated her 27th birthday with optimism, telling her friend Ryan, “[Kelly] felt really important to me” ([05:17]).

Meeting Chris Zoco: A Promising Relationship

Kelly met Chris Zoco, an 38-year-old IT executive from Boston University, through mutual friends. Despite an 11-year age gap, their shared backgrounds of divorced families and indulgence in recreational drugs initially bonded them. Chris's financial stability, showcased by his beautiful condo and sports cars, made a strong impression on Kelly. However, underlying issues in their relationship soon began to surface.

The Night Kelly Disappeared

On October 10, 2013, Kelly and Chris planned a date night. They spent the evening at a local bar, Liam, where Kelly appeared cheerful and relaxed, telling her friend Chanel she was looking forward to a “just having an easy day” ([15:29]). Later, they visited Ian's Pizza before returning to Chris's apartment around 2:37 AM on October 11th. The next day, Kelly failed to show up for her shift at Lululemon, prompting her coworkers to raise alarms when she also stopped updating her social media ([06:30]).

Investigation and Emerging Suspicion

Authorities launched a missing person's investigation, noting that Kelly's debit cards hadn't been used and her phone was either dead or turned off. Interestingly, Kelly's social media was deleted around the time of her disappearance, a significant red flag. Police turned their attention to Chris, who downplayed his relationship with Kelly, describing her as "someone he parties with" rather than his girlfriend ([19:45]).

Red Flags Unveiled

During interrogations, inconsistencies arose. Security footage showed Kelly entering Chris's apartment but never leaving, contradicting Chris's claim that she left around 9 AM ([20:51]). Additionally, Chris had removed the SIM card from his phone, hindering tracking efforts. A subsequent search of Chris’s apartment revealed substantial amounts of drugs, including cocaine and marijuana, and disturbing evidence such as sex videos showing Kelly in distress and photos of her unconscious, suggesting possible abuse ([24:37]).

Further investigations revealed that Chris had a long-term girlfriend, Megan Pollack, unaware of his relationship with Kelly. Megan reported odd behavior from Chris, including excessive sweating and missing items from his apartment, such as a guest bathroom shower curtain and a golf bag, which investigators later linked to the disappearance of Kelly ([35:28]).

Discovery of Kelly's Remains

On May 1, 2015, Christopher Fountain discovered skeletal remains in a remote area west of Milwaukee. Dental records confirmed the remains belonged to Kelly Dwyer. Although the autopsy was inconclusive regarding the cause of death, the position of Kelly's body suggested she had been concealed, likely in a container similar to a golf bag ([42:36]).

Legal Proceedings and Conviction

Despite mounting evidence, including testimonies from other women who experienced violent behavior from Chris, authorities awaited more concrete proof before filing murder charges. In November 2014, Chris was sentenced to 19 years for drug possession and child pornography charges. However, it wasn't until additional evidence and witness testimonies surfaced that the district attorney moved forward with murder charges. In 2018, Chris was convicted of first-degree reckless homicide, strangulation, and suffocation, receiving an additional 31-year sentence without credit for time served ([45:22]).

Lessons and Conclusions

The case of Kelly Dwyer underscores the importance of recognizing and acting upon red flags in relationships. Both hosts emphasize trusting one’s instincts when warning signs emerge, as ignoring them can lead to severe consequences. Peyton and Garrett also highlight the role of community and vigilance in preventing such tragedies.

Notable Quotes

• Peyton: “You see, when we ignore red flags, they could lead to something far more deadly than heartbreak.” ([05:17])
• Garrett: “He's the husband.” ([01:20]) (Lighthearted moment highlighting the dynamic between hosts)
• Garrett: “That's a horrible word.” ([42:36]) (Reacting to the discovery of Kelly's remains)

Supporting Information and Resources

Listeners moved by Kelly's story are encouraged to support the Sojourner Family Peace Center, a fundraiser established by Kelly’s family to aid women impacted by violence. Donations can be made at www.familypeacecenter.org.

Conclusion

Episode 274 of "Murder With My Husband" presents a compelling narrative of Kelly Dwyer's life and untimely death, illustrating the devastating effects of overlooked red flags in relationships. Through meticulous investigation and persistent pursuit of justice, the episode serves as a potent reminder to heed warning signs and prioritize personal safety.

Transcript

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[Peyton Moreland]

You're listening to an Ono Media podcast. Hey everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.

[Garrett Moreland]

And I'm Garrett Moreland.

[Peyton Moreland]

And he's the husband.

[Garrett Moreland]

I'm the husband.

[Peyton Moreland]

You know, you just like. It's. It's just. Okay, should we just give.

[Garrett Moreland]

Sorry, no episode today. We're not recording. Everyone have a great day.

[Peyton Moreland]

Sometimes it's just something that I don't think about. It just comes out. I just let it naturally come out. So you have those moments where you're like. It's like when you say a word a little too much and then you're like. Does that sound right? Is that how you actually say it?

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, I get that.

[Peyton Moreland]

Because it's not something I really think about. It just happens. Yeah.

[Garrett Moreland]

Hope everyone is having a great Monday. It's really hot outside right now. Where we are, those who live in Arizona and other places are probably like, oh, poor you. Well, I didn't move to Arizona for that reason because I don't want it to be that hot. But it's currently 103 degrees outside. Hot day. But I think it's just a heat wave. It's supposed to cool down tomorrow. Even Daisy goes outside and she's like, where in the world are we right now? How do you feel about the heat, babe?

[Peyton Moreland]

Not a fan. I would like some rain.

[Garrett Moreland]

Here's the problem. I. I grew up in California, so I am unfortunately very spoiled when it comes to weather year round. It was usually pretty good, but honestly, I don't mind the weather in Utah. I like the seasons. I like a little bit of cold sometimes. I like the heat in the summer.

[Peyton Moreland]

People used to complain about Arizona, and they'd be like, oh, it's just unbearable in the summer. And I was like, can't be that bad.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's hot. I don't know how you guys do it.

[Peyton Moreland]

I will say I went, and I will never go back in the summertime because it feels genuinely like the gates of hell.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's so hot. I don't know.

[Peyton Moreland]

It is. It feels like, you know when you're standing next to a fire and you can, like, feel the heat on your face? It feels like that.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

Know, you're just outside. Like, you step out, you walk from your car 10 steps into a restaurant.

[Garrett Moreland]

You're like, oh.

[Peyton Moreland]

And it is, like, unbearable.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah. It's kind of impressive that you guys do it, but, I mean, I guess it's just like. Yeah. I don't know.

[Peyton Moreland]

Honestly, not about the cold.

[Garrett Moreland]

I don't know how the air conditioners survive in the summer.

[Peyton Moreland]

I, like, feel bad for the cars and the roofs. I'm like, that's so sad. Like, they're just so hot.

[Garrett Moreland]

Daisy, what do you want? One second. Hold on. Daisy's barking at us because she needs to go outside. This has been long, so I will. That can kind of be my 10 seconds, and we will skip to something important because my 10 seconds is a merch drop item. It is a hat. It is amazing. It's a strangey daingy hat. Every single one of you need it. It's honestly, it's extreme. Tell me the design isn't amazing.

[Peyton Moreland]

Well, I think I need a preface here that when Garrett does something, this. This little hat has been his little thing, and when he does something, he goes all out. So he tested 800 different hats before he found the one that he wanted to print on.

[Garrett Moreland]

I just. I wanted a good blank. I don't like bad blanks. I will say that this isn't a blank. You can go and, like, jump in the water with. It's not like one of those melon waterproof hats. But the blank is amazing. It's cool enough to wear in the heat. Just saying.

[Peyton Moreland]

And it is a cute hat.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's extreme. It's. It's super cool.

[Peyton Moreland]

You might be thinking, like, oh, a merch. It's not really, like, a merchant.

[Garrett Moreland]

Like, it's a custom blank. They're not. Yeah, like, just merch hats that you get. It's a custom blank. It's a high quality hat. Go check it out. I'll have some pictures of me wearing it. There's some other pictures on there. It's live now. We don't have a ton of them, so I don't know if they're going to sell out. Maybe no one buys it. If no one buys it, then I'll buy all of them. So then it looks like everyone bought them. And that's what I got. So go check it out. The links are going to be everywhere. It's our normal merch site. We love you guys. And let's hop into today's episode.

[Peyton Moreland]

All right. Our sources for this episode are tmj4.com wi homicide.com chillingcrimes.com milwaukee mag.com medium.com cbs58.com fox6now.com wisn.com and c cbs news.com so oftentimes when we find ourselves in a new relationship with someone, we only look for the good in that person. Reasons why we should keep moving forward with them, why they might be the one we spend forever with. That's part of romance, a part of lust or love, visualizing the perfect future together. But sometimes in a brand new relationship, that means ignoring the red flags, too. We tend to bury the parts that maybe should be warnings that should tell us to turn, run and get out of this before we find ourselves in too deep. Maybe they're not over their ex. Maybe they have anger issues or violent tendencies. Okay, sorry.

[Garrett Moreland]

You said in too deep. And I was thinking because I'm into deep.

[Peyton Moreland]

Okay. Anyways, I just saw you head banging over there.

[Garrett Moreland]

I know that was. Yeah. Anyways, keep going.

[Peyton Moreland]

Maybe there's some dark secret on their computer you stumble upon one afternoon. But when we're in the state of love or lust, whatever you want to call it, it's easy to ignore the circumstantial evidence and just follow your feelings instead. Which is why today's story is not just a cautionary tale. It's proof that when we ignore red flags, they could lead to something far more deadly than than heartbreak. So for today's case, we are headed to Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And Milwaukee is where 27 year old Kelly Dwyer calls home in the year 2013. But Kelly isn't a Wisconsin native. She actually grew up in a suburb of Chicago. And while her high school years were difficult in Chicago, as her parents worked through a challenging divorce, Kelly managed to keep her head above water, focusing on tennis, the high school newspaper and yearbook clubs. But in the trauma of her parents divorce, Kelly kind of seemed to lose A sense of herself, too. Instead of going right to college after graduation, Kelly did her own thing for the next few years, working odd jobs, just kind of finding her place in the world. But four years later, she was ready to get the heck out of Illinois and start fresh, fresh somewhere new. She wanted to create a new identity for herself and finally put her past behind her. And this is why she decided to move to Milwaukee. The city suited Kelly. She made new friends. She found a community of yogis and began teaching yoga classes herself. She also got a job at Lululemon while nannying part time. So Kelly moved here and was definitely hustling. But she also loved letting loose. Kelly loved the nightlife scene in Milwaukee and was always spotted out with her friends and co workers at all the trendy new spots. But Kelly also wanted a lot more for herself. She wanted a bright future. She wanted love. She wanted happiness. And when she finally celebrated her 27th birthday in September of 2013, she believed that this future she envisioned for herself was right around the corner. She told her friend Ryan on this birthday quote, something big is gonna happen. I can feel it. It feels really important to me, okay? And Ryan, her friend, was excited for her because Kelly was really coming into herself. This was something her father, Tony, had noticed, too, when he visited her in Milwaukee. Shortly after Tony, her dad, was relieved to see how happy Kelly was and how much she was thriving in this new environment. And Kelly seemed to attribute a lot of that happiness to a guy she had been seeing for about a year now, someone she met through a mutual friend. His name was Chris Zoco. Now, Chris was 11 years older than Kelly, so at 38, he had already built quite a life for himself. He was a successful I. T. Executive who had graduated from Boston University with a degree in international business. He was now making pretty decent money by 38, the kind of guy who got up early to golf on the weekends, even if he was out late partying the night before. He also traveled a lot for work, which meant he and Kelly didn't get to see each other as much as she may have liked. But to her, him leaving out of town a lot was worth it because it paid for his beautiful condo in a nice Milwaukee neighborhood and fancy sports cars that he could pick Kelly up in for dates.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay, random question. Not for you, babe, for our listeners.

[Peyton Moreland]

Okay?

[Garrett Moreland]

You had all the money in the world. Would you choose city or would you. Or would you choose like, I guess, suburbs, but not suburbs like country, like.

[Peyton Moreland]

Okay, so extremes on both sides.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yes, extremes on both sides. What Would that be like rural, but not really rural. Like you can still find, like farm towns where it's still close to everything.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah. What would you choose? All the money.

[Garrett Moreland]

That's not for me. That's just for our listeners.

[Peyton Moreland]

You don't think they want to know what you feel?

[Garrett Moreland]

I can tell them next week. This is for them.

[Peyton Moreland]

Oh, okay, okay. You're. You always be making promises, bro.

[Garrett Moreland]

I mean, I don't know what I would choose. That's why I don't know the answer to that.

[Peyton Moreland]

I don't know either.

[Garrett Moreland]

I know I kind of interrupted the case. I think there's. If you had all the money in the world, there's amazing things you could get on both ends of the spectrum.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah, but think if you had all the money in a city that, I mean, shows every night, five stars, but.

[Garrett Moreland]

If you had all the money and like, you had a huge ranch somewhere, like, you could have.

[Peyton Moreland]

True too. You could have cows.

[Garrett Moreland]

Well, yes, but a lot more than that.

[Peyton Moreland]

You could have a boat.

[Garrett Moreland]

You have any horse you want, but bunch of horses.

[Peyton Moreland]

If you have all the money in the world, you could have both.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, but you gotta pick one.

[Peyton Moreland]

Okay.

[Garrett Moreland]

Anyway, sorry, interruption. Let's continue. All right, guys, we are jumping into an ad. It is Olipop, my drink. That's my Ollipop.

[Peyton Moreland]

Sorry. Can I have a drink of your Ollipop?

[Garrett Moreland]

I guess so. Did it look good?

[Peyton Moreland]

Tastes good too.

[Garrett Moreland]

No, in reality, we love Olipop. I love Olipop. Almost every American look at, even Daisy's trying to get Olip. Olipop uses a functional ingredient blend to support digestive health. Olipop offers a delicious alternative to traditional soda, providing mainstream consumers with a flavor they want without the typical health trade off. Well, I'm drink. I'm drinking the classic grape, but one of my favorites is the crisp apple carrot.

[Peyton Moreland]

Does love that one.

[Garrett Moreland]

I like the apple one a lot.

[Peyton Moreland]

I feel like I didn't get excited enough about our lollipop ad. Genuinely healthy soda. That's good for you. Get out of here.

[Garrett Moreland]

If you.

[Peyton Moreland]

And it tastes.

[Garrett Moreland]

No, if you look everything up. Honestly, it is healthy for you. It's good for you. Olipop is much, much lower in sugar than conventional sodas with only 2 to 5 grams of sugar from natural sources, no added sugar. They have a vintage cola as well. That compares to a Coca Cola. They have an orange squeeze which compares to an orange Fanta. Fanta. Whatever you want to call it, we love it. Get a free can of Ollipop. Buy any two cans of Olipop in store and we'll pay you back for one. Works on any flavor any retailer. Go to drinkolipop.com husband Olipop is sold online, drinkolipop.com and Amazon and available in almost 50, 000 retailers nationwide including Costco, Walmart, Target, Publix, Whole Foods, Kroger and heb. Go check it out.

[Peyton Moreland]

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[Garrett Moreland]

No, no.

[Peyton Moreland]

Was that day would never come. Oh, Just a few weeks later, on October 10, 2013, Kelly and Chris had a little date night planned. Kelly went over to Chris's apartment and hung out there for a bit before the two went out for some drinks at one of Their favorite spots in town. It was a place right across the street from Chris's apartment called a Liam. Now there, Kelly ran into her friend Chanel. They had a good conversation. They're just out hanging out for the night. In the year 2013, Chanel says that Kelly seemed to be in a good mood that night. Kelly told her she has the day off tomorrow. She was looking forward to just getting up, going to yoga, doing a little laundry, just kind of having an easy day the next day. Then after a few drinks, Kelly and Chris closed their tab and and went to this pizza spot that was a few blocks away called Ian's. I love pizza now at Ian's. They grabbed some slices and then actually went back to Chris's apartment around 2:37am on what is now the morning of October 11th. But the day after that, October 12th, Kelly was supposed to work a shift at Lululemon. So remember, they are out partying on October 10th. The entire day of October 11th goes by. And then the morning of October 12th, Kelly no shows to her job. So her co workers, who are also her good friends, start calling her. They're like, hey, you, you have a shift. Are you coming in? But there's no answer. So they figure it's 2013. Let's check her social media. Kelly was the kind of person who posts and updates her followers pretty consistently. So when they notice that she also hasn't posted on social media since two days prior, the night she went out with Chris, things start to get more alarming. And so that's when her friends actually get the police involved because they're like, she hasn't posted. She's not answering her phone. She would never, not show up to work. We're going to call the police now. Knowing that they have a missing person's case on their hands. Investigators hear about this and start with the basics. They start investigating and realize that Kelly's debit cards also haven't been used since. And later that day on October 12th, it seems like her phone is either now dead or turned off because it's going straight to voicemail. And between the time that her friends realize she hasn't posted and then alert authorities, and then authorities go on to check her social media, her social media account seemingly gets deleted as well. So she's missing. She hasn't been heard from. But in between this time, her social media gets deleted.

[Garrett Moreland]

Huge red flag. Yes, huge red flag. That's crazy.

[Peyton Moreland]

But they also find Kelly has profiles for a few different dating apps and she has been talking to A few different people on them, though, nothing stands out as much as this one tip that they receive from her friend who saw her two nights ago at Aliam. If you remember the friend who said that she was in good spirits, she didn't have work the next day. So this friend talks to police, and they say the last person she was with that they know of was Chris, her boyfriend. So On Monday the 14th, detectives go knocking on Chris's door because they now have realized Kelly has no family here. She only has friends. And then Chris, who's basically the closest person to her. Now, remember, this is the same place. Kelly was presumably last seen in the early morning hours of Friday, October 11, three days earlier, when they returned to his apartment. And when detectives show up there to say, hey, your girlfriend's missing, Chris is pretty welcoming. He lets them into his apartment. He sits down with them and has no problem telling them what he and Kelly got into the night he last saw her. He admits, yes, I know Kelly. But he doesn't say that she's his girlfriend.

[Garrett Moreland]

He.

[Peyton Moreland]

He says Kelly is just someone he parties with, someone he hangs out with. Claims earlier that night, the night she went missing, before going out to the bar, the two of them had actually drove around trying to get cocaine. And then after the bar, they came back to his apartment, did some lines, had a couple more drinks, they had sex on his couch, and then both passed out there. He says the next morning, Kelly left at around 9am and he hadn't seen or heard from her since. Now, Chris is leaning pretty hard into this narrative that Kelly is a wild party girl who did a lot of drugs. This is who he's portraying to the cops. And he also is insisting that they weren't exclusive. She was sleeping with other people she met online. But as police are having this conversation with Chris, who, one of the detectives gets a text message. It's from one of her colleagues who is downstairs sitting with security going over the footage from the apartment building that. The night Kelly went missing.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

And he says, hey, I see Kelly on security going into the apartment around 2:30am Just like Chris has described.

[Garrett Moreland]

She never comes out. Huh?

[Peyton Moreland]

He says, yes, they seem to be chatting totally fine. But as we're, like, combing through this security footage.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yep.

[Peyton Moreland]

I cannot find Kelly ever leaving the apartment building. So the police are like, okay, we're sitting here in front of him getting texts from our colleagues that her leaving at 9am Like Chris has said, isn't actually caught on camera. They need to keep looking into this guy right now. This is obviously not enough to arrest him on, but they do have something they can now use to get a search warrant. They that video and the fact that Chris said he had cocaine in the apartment basically means detectives leave to go get all of this sorted out. And in the meantime, they keep digging into Chris.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's kind of hard because as a detective, you leave, he already knows he's under suspicion and probably is trying to figure things out. You confront him and you say, hey, we just check the cameras and she didn't leave. Like what? I don't know which option's better.

[Peyton Moreland]

You're playing with fire because it's like you can both ways.

[Garrett Moreland]

You're kind of playing with fire.

[Peyton Moreland]

Hope he cracks and confesses because you've just confronted him with big news or he lawyers up and then you don't ever get to interview him without a bunch of pressure.

[Garrett Moreland]

But also, if he already knows, he's on the radar.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's almost like you might as well just go for it.

[Peyton Moreland]

But here's the thing. They bring him in. This is not enough to arrest him on.

[Garrett Moreland]

No.

[Peyton Moreland]

So then you have to let him go if he doesn't confess.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah. I don't know what you do. I mean, I think either way, he knows he's under suspicion. So I feel like you just try to get him to cry. I mean, I don't think there's a right way or wrong way. It's just interesting because I was thinking about it. I mean, they have to leave. They don't have a search warrant.

[Peyton Moreland]

They have to go get all that sorted.

[Garrett Moreland]

Now he just has time to do whatever he wants.

[Peyton Moreland]

Right. Because police have come in. So now he's gonna double check that everything's good if, you know, or a leak, whatever. Yeah. I mean, they are actively working this investigation. They are digging into Chris, trying to get this warrant, and they discover that Chris had removed this SIM card from his cell phone, making it impossible to track its movements from October 11th at 7:43pm until 2:41pm on October 12th, bro.

[Garrett Moreland]

So, come on, man.

[Peyton Moreland]

His SIM card is out of his phone, so they have no idea. They have no way to track what his phone did during that time. Well, police are back at Chris's house just later that day. They leave, get the warrant, and come back, and they find a lot more than a little cocaine in this apartment. They find canisters of marijuana in the fridge. They find painkillers, unidentified pills. So Chris is actually arrested on the spot for drug possession, which is good for them because they can now hold him. But while they have him under arrest, they also get a warrant to search his cell phone. And what they find on this phone is pretty disturbing. It's a video of Kelly and Chris taken about three weeks before she went missing. And in this video, they are engaged in a sex act. But Kelly looks to be in a lot of distress. In this video, whatever is happening, she is struggling to breathe, like, with what's going on, and this isn't the end of it. They also find pictures on this phone of Kelly, and she appears to be unconscious on Chris's bed, and he's taking pictures of her. Okay, so he's taking pictures of her unconscious body.

[Garrett Moreland]

Got it.

[Peyton Moreland]

On the bed.

[Garrett Moreland]

Not legal, by the way.

[Peyton Moreland]

So none of this looks good for Chris, especially because police don't stop searching his apartment once they find drugs. They're also looking for eating, any signs of Kelly. And they notice one very suspicious detail. The shower curtain in Chris's guest bathroom has been torn down. Like, the hooks still have pieces of fabric on it, but someone has just ripped it right off. They also bring in a police cadaver dog named Molly. And she picks up a scent in a lot of places. The hallway outside of Chris's door, the parking garage on the same level where Chris parks his car. A dumpster on the 18th floor where Chris lives, the trash chute on his floor. And this is all just outside of his apartment. Inside, she hits on the hallway, the guest bedroom, and the guest bathroom. And she finishes her search on top of Chris's bed. In fact, that's where she seems to be triggering the most. Like, she goes crazy on this bed. So police are pretty confident that Kelly most likely died in the apartment on Chris's bed, which is why the dog is alerting. And then he eventually tried to get rid of her body. Yet despite all of this, police still don't feel like this is enough to press charges on Chris for murder. I mean, it's obvious suspect. Like, they have an obvious suspect. It's pretty strong, but it's just not enough to take him to trial. So right now, they do have enough to hold him on drug charges, which is definitely helpful. But they feel confident that if they can just find Kelly's or Kelly's body, this will be a sealed deal. So they don't want to pounce too soon. Instead, they keep digging into Chris to build their case. And honestly, the more they learn about Chris, the more they investigate him, the worse things get, because also in his apartment, they find a bunch of old hard drives and There is a bunch of child pornography on these drives.

[Garrett Moreland]

Now, that's insane to me. Insane. Child pornography to me. Blows my mind that people actually watch child pornography.

[Peyton Moreland]

I can't, like.

[Garrett Moreland]

I can't. I don't like talking about it because.

[Peyton Moreland]

Go to children like.

[Garrett Moreland]

Like, children, like, come on.

[Peyton Moreland]

I don't know if there's a bigger sign to yourself that there's clearly something wrong.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's crazy.

[Peyton Moreland]

The police confront him with this. They're like, hey, we find. We found these hard drives. There's child pornography on these. And he says, oh, that was a hard drive from an old job I worked at. It's not actually mine. Like, I didn't put that on there. I just collected them from an old job and had them in my house. But police aren't buying it. In fact, they think this is just more evidence that Chris Zocco is capable of some pretty unimaginable things. Still, for now, they are only able to charge him with drug possession and child pornography. And by early November 2013, they shockingly let him out on bail, even though he's also the number one suspect in a murder investigation. But still, the d. A. Hasn't filed murder charges yet because they think there's a lot more on this guy that they'll uncover in due time. And the more witnesses they speak to, the more incriminating evidence they find. So some of Kelly's friends told the police that when Kelly started dating Chris, it wasn't unusual for her to show up to work with pretty big bruises on her wrists or her neck, places that looked pretty alarming. But whenever she was asked about it, Kelly would kind of shrug it off, saying it was nothing. Now, between that and the violent sex videos that they found on Chris's phone, police start to form a theory about what they think happened to Kelly the night she went missing. They believe that Kelly might have been killed during a pretty violent sex act. And based on surveillance videos, they find they think Chris found a way to move Kelly's body out to his car. And at some point, while his SIM card was removed from his cell phone, he likely drove somewhere to get rid of her remains. But they don't have any concrete details or evidence at this point. They are finding more things that validate this theory, like five other women who come forward that dated Chris in the past and basically testify to police that he exhibited violent sexual behaviors towards them as well.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

One said she actually was even sexually assaulted by Chris. Another said she got a restraining order from him after she broke up with him. In 2005. But what really took detectives by surprise was there was a reason that when they initially talked to Chris, that he wasn't calling Kelly his girlfriend. Like, he was like, no, no, no. This is just someone I party with. And that's because police uncovered that Chris already had a girlfriend at this time, a woman named Megan Pollack, who he had been in a very serious relationship with for four years.

[Garrett Moreland]

Apparently not that serious.

[Peyton Moreland]

A woman that he was talking about marrying and who Kelly apparently had no idea even existed. Though the same seemed to be true for Megan. Also. She had no idea about Kelly until news broke that Chris was the number one suspect disappearance.

[Garrett Moreland]

Could you imagine dating someone and then find out that not only are they dating other people, but that they probably murdered somebody?

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah, like a girl's missing that they were dating.

[Garrett Moreland]

How well.

[Peyton Moreland]

And then also there were hard drives with child pornography in his house, which is another reason he's looking sus.

[Garrett Moreland]

That would just hurt. That would be like, unbelievable at first.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah.

[Garrett Moreland]

Like what?

[Peyton Moreland]

Well, as you're saying, she. When she discovers all this, she is more than happy to come in and talk to police about it. This show is sponsored by Better Help Men. Today face immense pressure to perform, provide, keep it all together. So it's no wonder that 6 million men in the US suffer from depression every year. And it is often diagnosed. And I think that is because there is still a stigma surrounding mental health and men. And it's okay to struggle. Real strength comes from opening up about what you're carrying and doing something about it so you can be at your best for yourself and everyone in your life. If you're a man and you're feeling the weight of the world, talk to someone. A friend, a loved one, a therapist. I know Garrett and I have gone to therapy. We still go to therapy. We do solo sessions. We do together sessions. And it has helped tremendously so. With over 35, 000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it works with an App store rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on 1.7 million client use. It's also convenient. You can join a session with a therapist at the click of a button, and you can switch therapists at any time. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with better help our listeners get 10 off their first month at betterhelp.com husband that's betterhelp h E-L-P.com.

[Garrett Moreland]

Husband whether I'm searching for my next place to buy or rent, or I just want to scroll through some dream homes, we use the Redfin app, and Peyton and I have actually, fun fact. Been using Redfin for years.

[Peyton Moreland]

We actually. One of our first homes was found.

[Garrett Moreland]

On Redfin, and I'm pretty sure we use. Didn't we use the Redfin Realtor as well? Yes, almost. So. So if that's not an endorsement, I don't know what is. You can filter for price, beds, bath, square footage, and so much more, and you find a place you love. Redfin makes it easy to go see in person. Just schedule a tour right from the app.

[Peyton Moreland]

And you know, if. If you're not one of the people who has found the pleasure of looking at houses you cannot afford on Redfin at night in places that you do.

[Garrett Moreland]

Not live, you're not a real person.

[Peyton Moreland]

You need to join the club right now because there's something so fun about it. Plus, if you're looking to sell, Redfin agents know how to get you the best price possible for your home. And that's because they close twice as many deals as other agents. And with a listing fee as low as 1%, Redfin's fees are half of what others often charge, which means you'll have more money to put towards your next home.

[Garrett Moreland]

Also, my dad actually sold his home through Redfin, too. Remember that? And it was because they charged only 1% or whatever. So he's like, I'm gonna sell my home through them.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yep.

[Garrett Moreland]

Anyways, we're a Redfin family over here, so whether you're looking to buy, rent, or sell, Redfin has got you covered. Download the Redfin app to get started.

[Peyton Moreland]

So Megan, the girlfriend of four years, said that on the night of October 11, hours after Kelly was last seen, she and Chris had dinner plans for 7:30pm so this is the next day. And according to her, Chris showed up an hour late to dinner. And over the course of the night, he was acting very weird and nervous. And then he came back to her house, and he was actually sweating so much that she had to change her sheets the next morning because he was so sweaty. And in the days that followed, she just noticed a few odd things around Chris's apartment, like the fact that the shower curtain, a small rug, and a few decorative hand towels were all missing from his guest bathroom. And this is the same guest bathroom that that cadaver dog Molly would hit on a few days later. And then she also realized that Chris's travel golf bag, which was always annoyingly sitting in Chris's living room, was now gone. This is something she remembered very clearly, since this stupid bag was something she had to basically climb over anytime she wanted to go to the guest bathroom, like it was an annoyance to her in their relationship. And now it's gone on. But there was another strange detail she told police. She says that she and Chris had been having their problems, and they'd been arguing about a job opportunity she wanted to take back in Denver, Colorado. But Chris was very adamant that there was nothing she could do to convince him to move west. So basically, he said, it's me or the job. So inevitably, Megan turned down the job and chose to stay with Kristen Stan.

[Garrett Moreland]

And then he ends up being a murderer. And that's crazy, but that sucks.

[Peyton Moreland]

On the morning of October 12, when the two went to brunch, Chris told her something strange. Again, this is literally days after Kelly went missing. He asks her, hey, is that job in Colorado still on the table? Maybe we should just move there. Maybe we should just move there together. I'll go with you. You can take the job. Like, I'll sacrifice for you. We can move there. So once Megan learns about all of this, she's like, oh, he wasn't being nice. He killed someone even more suspicious. And since detectives have been wondering how Chris got Kelly out of the apartment after he killed her, once they talked to Megan, they're like, we think it was the missing golf bag.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

So investigators go back through all the footage from the apartment complex to see if they can catch Chris moving that bag in the hours after her disappearance. But. But they can't. And that's because apparently there are not a lot of cameras in this apartment complex. There is none in Chris's hallway, none in the elevators going down to the parking garage. There are cameras inside the garage, but none of them caught Chris on film with this golf bag. Now, whether Chris knew this or he just got lucky is unclear, but detectives start to piece together a timeline through all of their witnesses and evidence gathered so far. So on Friday morning, October 11th, at 10:06am they see Chris standing by the driver's side door of his vehicle. Again, no golf bag. But he then leaves the building at 10:08am and it's around that exact time that Kelly's phone goes dead, though probably turned off. Now, just 16 minutes after that, Chris is back in the parking garage. His car is parked, and he's standing behind his trunk. And this trunk is open. And detectives think they can Spot a gray or silver object lying inside the trunk, one that looks like the golf bag. The videos go on to show Chris coming and going a bunch of other times that day. Remember, these are just, like, not a perfect surveillance video of this. They're trying to have kind of having to piece it together with different images. They can basically just tell that he's loading things into his car and leaving. Loading things in and leaving. And then at 6:16pm he leaves, and he doesn't come back for the night, as we know. Two hours later, he shows up an hour late to dinner with Megan, his girlfriend. And the reason police think he was so nervous and sweaty that night was because they believe that he still hadn't found a place to dump Kelly's body. They think it was sitting in the trunk of his car outside Megan's apartment.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay, I'm.

[Peyton Moreland]

So he's with his girlfriend because he needs an alibi. He can't just, like. Like, no show, and he has a body in the car, but he's so nervous because he needs to go get rid of this body. So when he wakes up the next day, he's got to do something about it. That's when he tells Megan a story. He says there's this little cheese shop that he loves. It's called the Mouse house, and it's 80 miles away from Milwaukee. He says, I have to go pick up this specific cheese before your parents come into town, because I want them to try it. Mind you, this place is a bit of a tourist trap. There's way better cheese in Milwaukee that sell the same kind of cheese he's looking for. So this doesn't really make sense to.

[Garrett Moreland]

Detectives talking crap on the Mouse Trap shop.

[Peyton Moreland]

Well, I'm just. Detectives are like, if you wanted the specific cheese, there was no reason to.

[Garrett Moreland]

Drive 80 miles right next door.

[Peyton Moreland]

Like, this is more a tourist thing, not like someone who lives here type thing.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

So they think this was Chris's excuse to get out of town and find a place to dump the body. And while he does get half a pound of cheese, Chris makes another stop along that drive, too, to a sports authority, where he buys some new sneakers. Now, police are able to map all of this out because Chris had used his credit card that day, which told them exactly where he was and at what time. And they realize all those timestamps add up to the time he was gone, aside from about 90 minutes where they don't know where he was.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

Which is plenty of time to get rid of a body and then go Buy some cheese for your alibi. Get some new sneakers, because your old ones are probably covered in evidence. So now they have an area to at least search for Kelly's body. Like, they have an area where they're like, however far you can drive in 90 minutes, this is where we'll be searching.

[Garrett Moreland]

Which. That's a large area.

[Peyton Moreland]

Like, it's a big area. It's gonna take some time. Now, meanwhile, Chris stands trial for those other charges, the child pornography and the drug possession, in November 2014. So time is moving on. They. It's very obvious that police and prosecutors are waiting for a body. They do not want to charge Chris until they find Kelly's body. So they are waiting, which is taking years. And so years. Yeah. So 2014 goes by. He's sentenced to 19 years in jail for the drug and child pornography charges, but they still haven't charged him for murder. But then in May 2015, everything changes.

[Garrett Moreland]

You got 19 years for the drugs, or is it mainly the child pornography?

[Peyton Moreland]

I'm gonna assume they're hoping they can put him in jail and find the body in 19 years and hopefully charge him for murder. So, yes. Does he deserve 19 years for having child pornography? In my opinion, 100. But is that normal?

[Garrett Moreland]

No, I don't think so.

[Peyton Moreland]

Because I don't think that's the usual.

[Garrett Moreland]

Because I feel like usually, unfortunately, there's many cases where it's like one to three years for child pornography.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah.

[Garrett Moreland]

I'm guessing the judge was like, oh, well, we think he killed.

[Peyton Moreland]

Work with the DA on this maximum sentence.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, we'll go max until we see if we can find anything.

[Peyton Moreland]

Right. So in May 2015, there, I mean, I'm alleged plan, what I'm assuming was happening changes. I mean, if you're the number one suspect in a murder charge, I don't think it's that crazy that they're like, well, we're going to give you the maximum on another sentence. I wish they actually did that for everyone who is a suspect in a murder case. Because oftentimes we see killers who only serve one to two years for a crime and then kill again because they're let out. So on May 1, a man named Christopher Fountain is out for a walk in an area about 45 miles west of Milwaukee. And he's strolling along an embankment on this dead end road when he spots something he thinks looks like a deer's leg bone. So he's like, he's just a curious little adventurer. He goes over to see this bone and. And when he Gets closer, he realizes that there's actually a human skull.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, my God.

[Peyton Moreland]

Lying next to this bone. That's crazy to stumble upon.

[Garrett Moreland]

If I saw a human skull, honestly, I think that the first thought would be, this is fake. I'd be like, no way. Like, this is a Halloween skull. Like, I wouldn't think it was real.

[Peyton Moreland]

Well, here's the thing. Most of the skeletal remains are intact. It's basically a human skeletal body. Gosh, there's no clothing around these bones. Now, of course, this guy calls local authorities who rush out, they collect the remains, and six days later, they ran them against a set of dental records, because obviously, they know that this is in the area where Kelly could have been dumped. I just, unfortunately, I don't like saying that.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's a horrible word.

[Peyton Moreland]

But, I mean, she's a real person and, like, how horrible that her body was just dumped somewhere.

[Garrett Moreland]

I know.

[Peyton Moreland]

Ugh, it's gross. But they know that this is within their area. They've been looking. So they run Kelly's dental records, and it's a match. Now, unfortunately, it has been over a year and a half since Kelly was last seen, so you're not going to get a whole lot out of an autopsy. They aren't able to conclusively say how Kelly died. And unfortunately, as well, there's no physical evidence found at the scene either. There's no golf bag, no shower curtain, no hand towels. Like, nothing from the apartment is found with the remains. But there is one clue they are able to work off of, and that is the position in which Kelly's body was found. Her right leg was sort of rotated inward, and her left arm strangely kind of just was tangled around her back. Which to detectives, tells them something. It looks like Kelly's body was stuffed into some kind of container and then got stiff like that.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, the golf bag.

[Peyton Moreland]

Like a golf bag. The biggest kicker, Kelly was found near the area that Chris went shopping for shoes and cheese that day. Which means their theory that Chris had used this trip as an excuse to get rid of Kelly's body. Meaning that Kelly's body actually did probably sit in his car in an apartment complex. That theory was likely correct. Now that there is a body to add to the list of evidence against Chris, the district attorney feels ready to move forward with the case. But remember, Chris is behind bars already serving time for those child pornography and drug possession charges. So there's not really a huge rush to get him off the streets, because at the moment, he's not. Not really a danger to society, which Is why instead of charging him immediately, the DEA actually takes their time putting this case against him together, trying to make it airtight. They're like, we are going to take time to investigate, find as much evidence as possible, make sure our case is airtight, charge him and prosecute him. So they re interview all the witnesses. They take a second, third, fourth look at all of the evidence. They speak to all of the women they can from Chris's past. And that process takes them another two years before they officially charge Chris Zoco with first degree reckless homicide. Hiding a body. And they also seem to have found a likely cause of death because they also charge him with strangulation and suffocation. So there's evidence the public doesn't know about at this point. But it won't be another year and a half after this.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, my gosh, dude.

[Peyton Moreland]

Before he goes to trial. Now, meanwhile, Chris is having a hard time staying out of trouble, even behind bars as he's awaiting trial. One of Chris's cellmates speaks up, saying Chris came to him and asked for help with getting rid of another ex girlfriend on the outside.

[Garrett Moreland]

So question. Do you think that cellmates speak up because they get something from it?

[Peyton Moreland]

Yes. This is actually like a huge problem.

[Garrett Moreland]

I feel like I would only speak up if it was like, you'll get out of jail today.

[Peyton Moreland]

Well, people think that they actually need to stop doing this, letting informants get things. Because then informants just lie to get things. They're like, oh, you're on trial for murder. Let me go over here.

[Garrett Moreland]

That's a good point.

[Peyton Moreland]

And say, oh, he actually said this to me. I'll testify to it as long as I get moved up to a better prison or I get this or I get that.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah. Because how do you know if they're lying or not? So they're all in prison. So, I mean, no offense, but the.

[Peyton Moreland]

Informant system is actually like. It's also a big issue in getting false convictions.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

Because informants will come in and say, oh, yeah, someone said he did it. And that is actually innocent. So it's not. I think it's actually something we should kind of get rid of, in my personal opinion.

[Garrett Moreland]

I never thought about it that way.

[Peyton Moreland]

Trials. Yeah, But. Or just as long as they're not promised anything. Like, if they just come forward and aren't given anything for it, then that's great. You're just another eyewitness at that point.

[Advertiser]

Me?

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah. But then they won't come forward because.

[Peyton Moreland]

Why come forward of the goodness of their heart.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, yeah. Yep, yep, yep.

[Peyton Moreland]

So his inmate's like, yeah, he's trying to hire a hitman to murder an ex girlfriend on the outside. And they think it's Megan because Megan's actually planning on testifying. So the girlfriend of four years is going to testify against him. So the inmate's like, I'm pretty sure that's who he's trying to get rid of. He even goes as far as to talk prices with this guy. Says, I'll pay you 2,500 to $5,000. So Chris gets another charge added to his already long list. Felony intimidation of a witness. But that's not the only thing this former cellmate had to tell police. Apparently, Chris had told him exactly why he was behind bars. The inmate's like, he told me exactly what happened to Kelly, like, the murder. Every detail, everything. So here's what this inmate tells police. Chris claimed that before Kelly died, the two of them were having rough sex in his apartment. And eventually, he took things too far and ended up killing Kelly by accident. He panicked when he realized Kelly was no longer breathing, so he carried her to the bathroom and tried to resuscitate her. But when he realized Kelly was already dead, he tried to do something with her body. He wrapped her in the guest bathroom shower curtain and used the garbage chute to get her body to the first level unnoticed. You heard that correctly. Which makes sense, because the cadaver dog did catch a scent at the garbage chute, and it could explain why Chris was never seen carrying the golf bag out of the building. Now, we should take this with a grain of salt, for obvious reasons, but I do think this is maybe the closest to the truth we'll ever get when it comes to how Kelly died. I will say, though, those charges of felony intimidation are later dropped because of lack of evidence. So this informant, I don't know, they don't trust him enough to come forward and testify. But I think it is important to include that Chris is not only trying to buy a hitman from prison. Allegedly. He's also caught trying to buy pornographic materials, which are off limits in prison. And he was specifically asking for choking, pornography and younger ones. Okay, so he's asking for the same thing. He was caught with those hard drives that weren't his. He's asking for those again.

[Garrett Moreland]

This guy deserves to.

[Peyton Moreland]

So even behind bars, Chris has not been able to control his issues or his urges. And he definitely has something with choking. And I do think. I mean, even the state thinks it's possible that she was killed accidentally during choking because of the videos they have.

[Garrett Moreland]

Definitely possible. What's interesting, too, if he would have just called the cops, he probably would have just gotten manslaughter, which is like five to 10 years.

[Peyton Moreland]

He could have.

[Garrett Moreland]

I mean, not saying that's what should have happened because he obviously sounds like a horrible person.

[Peyton Moreland]

Well, and he killed her. I mean, you took it too far. This isn't supposed to happen.

[Garrett Moreland]

But it's just interesting that if it didn't go through this and he called the cops and said might have have.

[Peyton Moreland]

Been able to get lesser charges.

[Garrett Moreland]

For sure. Probably would have. Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

I'm still glad they caught him for the child pornography.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, for sure.

[Peyton Moreland]

So the trial comes, and while there is no smoking gun in this case, like, they didn't find anything with the body, there are a lot of little things that obviously point in his direction. And the defense tries to call a lot of these little things into question. They're like, listen, there's no solid evidence here. They question the cadaver dog. They also point to the fact that Kelly was said to have had other partners while she was with Chris. And why didn't police look into any of them? Them? Now, in the end, the jury didn't buy it. On October 5, 2018, they find Chris guilty on all counts. He was sentenced to an additional 31 years behind bars with no credit for time served. So to this day, Chris denies having anything to do with Kelly's death. And while he does plan to appeal his conviction, as it stands, he won't be eligible for release until 2065, when he is 90 years old. So if there is anything we can learn from a man like Chris, it is to always trust those red flags, Whether that's a new relationship or even one you have been in for years. When you see a warning sign, go with your gut. And I am not blaming Kelly. I am saying that people do tend to show their true self eventually.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

Because sometimes it is hard to know the real person you're sleeping next to. And if Kelly's story has moved you, you can actually make a donation to the Sojourner Family Peace center, where her family had previously set up a fundraiser for women impacted by violence, which we will be donating to. So I want to include it for you guys as well. You can visit the site at www.familypeacecenter.org to help women impacted by violence. And her family has kind of advocated around this. I do think it's amazing. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. When there is little pieces of light that come out of such a dark thing that happens in the world. But, yeah, that is the case of Kelly Dwyer.

[Garrett Moreland]

No, I'm sick of people dying.

[Peyton Moreland]

I know.

[Garrett Moreland]

I'm sick of people getting killed. It's just. It's so. It's. I don't even. Yeah. Frustrating.

[Peyton Moreland]

It's just, like. Because here's the thing.

[Garrett Moreland]

I will never not be an eye for an eye type of person.

[Peyton Moreland]

I want to be like, yeah. I mean, I don't even want to do this, but I think if I'm playing devil's advocate, it's like, oh, it could have been an accident. But I'm like, I don't know, bro. Like, you had child pornography on hard drives in your house, not just, like, on dark websites. Like, you had it on hard drives in your house. I. I. Lowkey. Just think you're a dangerous person.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

Like, I don't. I don't know. I think you're just a dangerous person. I don't think it's that shocking that you ended up. Up hurting someone. Yeah. I don't know.

[Garrett Moreland]

I agree.

[Peyton Moreland]

All right, you guys, that is our episode for this week, and we will see you next time with another one. I love it.

[Garrett Moreland]

I hate it.

[Peyton Moreland]

Goodbye.