279. The Yacht Slaying - The Murder of Jackie and Thomas Hawks

Summary

Murder With My Husband - Episode 279: The Yacht Slaying - The Murder of Jackie and Thomas Hawks

Release Date: July 28, 2025

---

Introduction to the Case

In Episode 279 of "Murder With My Husband," hosts Peyton and Garrett Moreland delve into the chilling true crime case of Jackie and Thomas Hawks, a retired couple whose dream of sailing on their luxurious yacht turned into a nightmare. The episode meticulously unpacks the events leading up to their mysterious disappearance, the subsequent investigation, and the eventual revelation of the perpetrators behind their tragic fate.

---

Background of the Victims: Thomas and Jackie Hawks

Thomas Hawks, a 57-year-old Vietnam War veteran, had dedicated his life to serving his country and community. His career spanned roles as an Air Force security police officer, firefighter, and probation officer. Additionally, Thomas pursued bodybuilding as a passion, reflecting his disciplined and resilient nature. Jackie Hawks, 47, met Thomas in 1986 at a friend's chili cook-off in Arizona. Despite a challenging start—including a motorcycle accident that temporarily left her in a wheelchair—Jackie quickly became the heart of Thomas's life, bringing warmth and stability to his two sons, Ryan and Mat.

Together, Thomas and Jackie epitomized the ideal retired couple, investing their earnings to secure an early retirement. By October 2002, they fulfilled their dream by relocating to Newport Beach, California, and purchasing a $300,000, 55-foot yacht named "Well Deserved." Their idyllic life was defined by sailing adventures along the California coast, symbolizing their hard-earned peace and fulfillment.

Notable Quote:

"We're finally retired, and then you're just like, no, there's no possible way that my dad put an ad out to sell this boat to come be with me." — Peyton Moreland [44:58]

---

The Sale of the Yacht and Disappearance

As life seemed perfect, a pivotal change occurred in 2004 when Peyton and Garrett Hicknife, Thomas's eldest son, welcomed their first child. The Hawks, eager to spend more time with their growing family in Arizona, decided to sell their prized yacht. By November 10th, an ad placed in a boating magazine caught the attention of Skyler and Jennifer Deleon, a seemingly affluent couple interested in purchasing the vessel.

On November 15th, the Hawks embarked on one final voyage aboard "Well Deserved," intending to showcase the yacht to the Deleons. Shortly after, the couple vanished without a trace, leaving friends and family bewildered. Initial investigations revealed alarming signs: the yacht's dinghy was improperly secured, essential deck tarps were removed, and valuable personal items went missing, suggesting foul play rather than a simple sailing mishap.

Notable Quote:

"It’s like trying to rob a bank now and trying to get away with it." — Garrett Moreland [17:46]

---

Introduction to Suspects: Skyler and Jennifer Deleon

Skyler and Jennifer Deleon emerged as the primary suspects when discrepancies surfaced during the yacht sale. While Skyler initially portrayed themselves as a financially stable former actor from "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers," deeper investigations uncovered a troubling history. Skyler, grappling with significant debt and a background in armed robbery, was revealed to be involved in money laundering. Their sudden willingness to pay the yacht’s hefty amount in cash raised suspicions about the legitimacy of their intentions.

Further scrutiny revealed that the Deleons had met Thomas and Jackie only eight days before the disappearance and had forged crucial documents to facilitate the purchase, including a power of attorney with alarming discrepancies in signatures. These inconsistencies hinted at coercion or deceit, prompting authorities to intensify their investigation.

Notable Quote:

"This is a massive red flag to police. Why would a couple sign over their power of attorney to someone they had met twice who was buying their boat?" — Peyton Moreland [31:00]

---

Police Investigation and Uncovering the Truth

The Newport Beach Police, upon receiving the missing persons report, meticulously pieced together the Hawks' last known movements. Surveillance footage from Target linked Jennifer Deleon to the area around the time of the yacht's disappearance, further tightening the case against her and Skyler. DNA evidence collected from the Hawks' abandoned vehicle confirmed Skyler's presence during the critical timeframe, undermining their claims of innocence.

Investigations into the notary involved in the yacht sale exposed fraudulent activities, revealing that Kathleen Harris had backdated and falsified documents for a bribe of $2,000. This revelation was pivotal, demonstrating a deliberate attempt to manipulate legal proceedings and obscure the true nature of the yacht transaction.

The breakthrough came when Alonzo Machine, a supposed witness to the sale, confessed under a deal to testify against Skyler, unveiling the orchestrated plan to murder the Hawks for financial gain. His testimony exposed the involvement of John Fitzgerald Kennedy, a gang member, who played a crucial role in the deception and execution of the crime.

Notable Quote:

"They brutally murdered people." — Garrett Moreland [43:38]

---

The Trial and Sentencing

The trial unfolded with shocking revelations as the prosecution presented overwhelming evidence against Skyler and accomplices. Alonzo's confession detailed the harrowing events on the yacht, where Thomas and Jackie were forcefully taken, coerced into signing over their assets, and ultimately murdered by being tied to the yacht's anchor and thrown overboard.

Jennifer Deleon, despite being indirectly involved, faced her own trial. Offered immunity in exchange for testimony against Skyler, she chose instead to maintain her innocence, resulting in her conviction and sentencing to two life terms.

Skyler and John F. Kennedy were sentenced to death for their heinous crimes, while Alonzo received 20 years for voluntary manslaughter. The closure seemed near until an unexpected twist emerged.

Notable Quote:

"They brutally murdered people. Stealing from them, and you're telling me they can be reformed? Bull crap." — Garrett Moreland [49:26]

---

A Twist in the Tale: Skyler’s Confession

While awaiting execution, Skyler Deleon made a surprising confession: the motive behind the Hawks' murder was to fund gender-affirming surgery through a federally funded inmate program in California. This revelation sparked outrage and frustration among the hosts and listeners, questioning the nature of justice and rehabilitation within the prison system.

Despite the gravity of their crimes, Skyler's ability to access resources for personal transformation while incarcerated highlighted perceived disparities in the penal system, leaving victims' families and the public grappling with feelings of unresolved injustice.

Notable Quote:

"And it has nothing to do with gender. But it bothers me that they get to go and live out their dream that they wanted." — Peyton Moreland [47:27]

---

Hosts' Reflections and Final Thoughts

Peyton and Garrett Moreland concluded the episode by expressing their deep frustration and anger over the case's outcome. The hosts grappled with the emotional weight of the Hawks' loss and the unsettling reality that justice, while served legally, may not align with the emotional closure desired by the victims' families.

They highlighted the complexities of the criminal justice system, debating the balance between punishment and rehabilitation, especially in cases involving severe crimes motivated by personal gain. The episode ended on a somber note, underscoring the lasting impact of such tragedies on all involved.

Notable Quote:

"So freaking annoying. It doesn't feel like justice to me." — Garrett Moreland [51:43]

---

Conclusion

Episode 279 of "Murder With My Husband" offers a comprehensive and emotionally charged exploration of the Yacht Slaying case. Through detailed narration, insightful analysis, and candid reflections, Peyton and Garrett Moreland shed light on the dark interplay of greed, deception, and the quest for personal fulfillment at the expense of innocent lives. The episode serves as a poignant reminder of the enduring scars left by such crimes and the ongoing struggle for meaningful justice.

Transcript

[Garrett Moreland]

We were jumping into an ad about Shopify. I just want to say, I personally have been using Shopify for six years. A long time. I love it. It's super intuitive. Honestly, if there's anything you want to sell online, you need to use Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started and even us. Yep, we use Shopify. What if I don't have a big team? Shopify helps you handle everything from website design to managing inventory to customer service to global shipping and more all in one place. With 99.9% uptime and the best converting checkout on the planet, you'll never miss a single sell again. Only with Shopify. And keep giving those big dreams the best shot with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com husband go to shopify.com husband shopify.com husband go and check it out.

[Jenny Moness]

Hi everyone, this is Jenny Moness from We Didn't Turn out okay. Podcast. Did you know at Great Wolf Lodge, there's adventure for the whole family? You and your pack can splash away in the indoor water park where it's always 84 degrees. There's a massive wave pool, a lazy river and tons of water slides for your pack to enjoy together. And the fun doesn't stop there. Get ready to explore and play at Adventure packed attractions from Magiquest, a live action game that takes place throughout the lodge, to the Northern Lights Arcade. There's also a bunch of great dining options and complimentary daily events like nightly dance parties all under one roof. And the best part, with 23 lodges across the country, you're always only a short drive away from adventure. As a parent who loves family adventures, I love when everything's in one place. It's why I can't wait to take my family to Great Wolf Lodge. So bring your pack together at a lodge near you. Book your stay [e-mail] and strengthen the pack.

[Peyton Moreland]

You're listening to an Ono Media podcast. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to our podcast. This is Murder with my husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.

[Garrett Moreland]

And I'm Garrett Moreland.

[Peyton Moreland]

And he's the husband.

[Garrett Moreland]

I'm the husband.

[Peyton Moreland]

I wonder if anyone ever notices that. Sometimes I say the podcast and sometimes I say our podcast.

[Garrett Moreland]

I don't know if I've ever. If I've ever noticed that.

[Peyton Moreland]

Just. Just different like that.

[Garrett Moreland]

Switching things up like that. Hope everyone's doing great. Important. If you are listening on Apple, we are currently running a promotion for subscribers or to be a subscriber, there's a 14 day free trial. We usually do not do free trials, but there's a 14 day free trial. You can go in, listen to the bonus episodes and ad free content and check it out to see if you want to stick around and continue to be a paid subscriber. And for those on Spotify and Patreon, we are setting one up right now. So by the time this is up, there will also be a free trial for Patreon slash Spotify. So you can check out our content, see all the bonus episodes we've done. You can see the episode I recorded which was, I don't know, like 15 minutes long. It's all ad free. We love all you guys. Thank you for listening. Thank you for clicking on our ads, thank you for using our discount codes. Thank you for supporting us. It means a lot to us and it's, I mean is why we can do this because of you guys. That's what I got as far as announcements and. Yeah, you got anything, babe?

[Peyton Moreland]

No, get that free trial and we have quite a backlog on there at this point.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, we have been doing bonus content for four plus years now.

[Peyton Moreland]

You get all of them, not just like from when you sign up.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, yeah. You get everything that we've ever done. So go and check it out. I really appreciate everyone last week who supported my IBS problems. Thank you very much. It's good to know that I got a lot of support. A lot of people that understand stomach problems. I went golfing this morning and did okay. There was a bunch of coyotes out, which was really cool. It makes me want to. And I don't know, I, I would have to look into it more because I don't know, I think enough about the ethics or the morals behind doing a like safari trip. I know there's ones that you can do that are I guess morally correct, but I think it's something that I would love to do someday. I don't know, I think it'd be so cool. I just want to see cheetahs. I want to see giraffes. And I've been in like San Diego Zoo. But like I want to see them in the wild in Africa. I don't know, maybe it's a bucket list thing. Maybe one day. Would you ever do that or no? Would that scare you?

[Peyton Moreland]

No, I would do it.

[Garrett Moreland]

You would do it.

[Peyton Moreland]

I just wouldn't do the like.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah. You just want to make sure it's morally like or.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah.

[Garrett Moreland]

Ethically. Yeah. Yeah. Because I know some are not.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah.

[Garrett Moreland]

And I know they're animals. They're just trying to live their lives. You know, let's try to hang out. I don't know, maybe one day. I think that would be pretty fun. If anyone's ever been on a safari trip, let me know. I'd love to hear more. All right, buckle up. We are hopping into this week's case.

[Peyton Moreland]

First, if I look tired or I sound tired, I am tired. Okay. I've got red eyes or body hemorrhoids. I'm just kidding. I've got. I got a sore body. I got red eyes. I am tired. So if that's why I sound a little different today, well, I'm sorry. Our sources for this episode are abcnews.go.com latimes.com medium.com cbs news.com crimelibrary.com oxygen.com ocregister.com international business times and dailymail.com did you say ocregister.com yep.

[Garrett Moreland]

This case will be in Orange County.

[Peyton Moreland]

California, where we're at, do you think?

[Garrett Moreland]

I'm going to guess we are in either Garden Grove or. Okay, San Clemente or Newport beach, where we at?

[Peyton Moreland]

Newport.

[Garrett Moreland]

New it. I knew it. Why are you laughing?

[Peyton Moreland]

Because you would say Garden Grove.

[Garrett Moreland]

Well, you know, UOC people, you don't know anything about those, so you don't give me that. You don't know nothing. That's funny.

[Peyton Moreland]

But also, I'm just gonna wait. I'm gonna start and see if you like, maybe catch.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

Okay. A lot of people spend their entire lives working towards one special chapter, and that is retirement. It's the point where we've finally accomplished our goals, have hopefully saved enough money to stop working, kick back, spend time with family, maybe travel a bit more and spend sleep in past 8am Which, I don't know, one elderly person that sleeps in past 8am but that's what they say retirement is. It's a time where we can look back and go, all that hard work has finally paid off, where we can finally have a little peace and quiet after years of grinding away to provide a good life for ourselves and our loved ones. But not everyone is willing to put in the years of hard work to get their retirement. Some people are willing to take shortcuts to get there, even if it means killing the people who have worked hard for it and taking it as their own. So let's head now to Newport Beach, California where in 200457 year old Thomas Hawks is living with his wife, 47 year old Jackie. Now, Thomas has spent most of his years working really hard for his family and his country. He's a Vietnam War veteran who also worked as an Air Force security police officer, a firefighter and a probation officer. He was also a bodybuilder on the side. So not exactly someone you would want to mess with. But from everything I read, it sounds like Thomas was as sweet as could be. He was a family man at heart, someone who busted his butt working hard to save for his future and his two sons. During his first marriage, before Jackie and those two sons were Ryan and Mat, it wasn't just his family that he was invested in. It's said that Thomas was the kind of guy who cared about the people he worked with too. As a probation officer, he really took an interest in the people he was helping and wanted to see them succeed. With this second chance at life, he believed people were capable of change and improving their lives for the better. This was a philosophy he also applied to his own life. After things didn't work out with his first wife, Thomas moved to Arizona where he eventually met Jackie in 1986 at a friend's chili cook off and at the time Jackie was working as a supermarket checkout girl. And she was also temporarily in a wheelchair after a bad motorcycle accident. Now Thomas fell in love with her quickly, as did his two teenage sons at the time who said Jackie just brought out the best in their dad. After the divorce with their mom, she was the perfect match for Thomas. They both loved the outdoors and going on thrill seeking adventures. Taking life by the horns, embracing it fully. And a few years later the two were married. Thomas continued to invest his money and create a little nest egg so he could retire early. And By October of 2002 that dream came true. Jackie and Thomas sold their house in Arizona and moved back to California where they settled in Newport Beach. I mean dream retirement. And they pursued another dream they had always had for themselves.

[Garrett Moreland]

By the way, you got to have a lot of money to get a nice house, Newport beach and retire. You're not retire, it's expensive. So expensive.

[Peyton Moreland]

So they move there and they buy a boat and begin sailing.

[Garrett Moreland]

My gosh.

[Peyton Moreland]

Now this wasn't just any boat. It was a 55 foot yacht that cost them about $300,000 at the time.

[Garrett Moreland]

They got money yachts.

[Peyton Moreland]

My dream. They named the yacht well deserved. They tricked this boat out with the latest Technology and spent their time going from Mexico to Catalina island off the coast of California. As Thomas's son Ryan put it, quote, being on water for them was a solitude. It was seeing the curve of the earth and seeing the sunset fall right behind it every sing night. And that's how the couple spent the next two years of their life. Venturing out on the open waters, enjoying all the fruits of their Labor. But come 2004, there was a big change in the best possible way.

[Garrett Moreland]

Kind of random, but I do wonder if, and I'm not judging and I don't care, but I wonder if anyone listening believes that the earth is flat.

[Peyton Moreland]

Should I have been more inclusive and just.

[Garrett Moreland]

No, no, not at all. I mean, teach their own opinion, but it just kind of made me think of that.

[Peyton Moreland]

So at this point in 2004, Ryan, who is Thomas's 27 year old son, and his wife Nicole welcomed their first baby. And this would be the first baby in the family. And Thomas and Jackie were over the moon about becoming grandparents for the first time. The only problem was Ryan and his family were back in Arizona and Thomas and Jackie wanted to be closer to spend more time with them. It was something that meant more to them than cruising the coast of California. So that fall they actually put the boat up for sale so they could get back to Arizona.

[Garrett Moreland]

Wow. Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

So Thomas put a small ad for the yacht in a boating magazine and by November they had a bite. Around November 10th, Ryan, this is his son who's a father, spoke to his father on the phone and learned they had finally found a buyer. The sale was expected to go through over the next few days. So five days later, on November 15, Jackie and Thomas got on the well deserved the boat for one final trip out of Newport harbor before they sold it, they actually were just going to sail over to Catalina Island. Now Jackie called her friend around 406pm that day saying, hey, we're out to sea. But after that, the couple seemed to go radio silent. A few days passed as people began to wonder why were both Jackie and Thomas's phones off? No one had heard from them since before that final trip. They took out to Catalina on the 15th. So that's when Thomas's friend Donnie called Ryan, Thomas's son. He told him, hey, I'm supposed to help your dad pack up some of his stuff and moved back to Arizona. I've been trying to get in touch with Thomas for the last day or so. I'm not getting an answer. Have you heard from your dad? Now Donnie and Ryan Knew it was unlike Thomas to just stand someone up like this. Which is when Ryan called in his Uncle Jim, a retired police chief in Carlsbad, California. It's not too far from Newport Beach. Both Jim and Donnie, Thomas's friends in California, meet up sometime around the 17th, and they go down to the dock in Newport, see if the boat is there and if they can find any sign of Thomas and Jackie. Now, one of the first things they notice is the well Deserved and its dinghy are back in the slip. But the dinghy is not tied to the dock properly and its motor is still in the down position in the water. So if they know something about their friend Thomas, he is super careful about boating safety. He would have never left any of this stuff like this on his own. Now, on board the well Deserved, they don't see any sign of Thomas or Jackie, but they find that all of the tarps on the deck have been removed. So nothing is covered. It's just sitting out in the open. Again, this is not something Thomas would have ever allowed. And weirdly, there's a towel hanging out of one of the portholes. And even more alarming, a lot of Thomas's things that he keeps on board, like his surfboard, an expensive radio, a few other items, all seem to be missing. So after seeing this, Jim, Thomas's brother, Uncle Jim, leaves a note for the prospective buyers of the boat because he figures they're going to come looking for this soon enough because they're supposed to sell it. And since he doesn't know who they are, he wants them to know, hey, the owners of the boat haven't been heard from. If you've seen or heard from Thomas or Jackie, let us know. He also thinks maybe it's possible that the buyers were one of the last people to see Jackie and Thomas before they disappeared. Like maybe the buyers had already come.

[Garrett Moreland]

But. Okay, so wait real quick. I just want to make sure. So the yacht is there or no? Correct, yes, the dinghy's there, but there's a bunch of stuff missing on board.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yes.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay, just wanted to clear that up. Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

Well, sure enough, a few days later, one of the buyers actually calls Uncle Jim and she says she and her husband paid for the boat in all cash. They don't say anything about when they last saw Jackie and Thomas, but she kind of rushes Jim off the phone pretty quick, quickly to tend to what sounds like a baby in the background.

[Garrett Moreland]

I was also going to say, how do you prove that? Yeah, you can't prove it. You can't Be like, can you sh.

[Peyton Moreland]

Well, Jim's like, maybe I can get into Thomas and Jackie's banking account, see if they received the cash for the boat, knowing they would have probably deposited it right away. But there's been zero activity on their banking accounts since the day they were last heard from. There was no big deposits at all. So they start calling around to local hospitals. They're like, maybe they sold the boat, got the cash. And then from the time they got the cash, before they could get it to the bank, something bad happened. They call hospitals. They get nothing. So finally, the day after Thanksgiving, November 26, Jim and Ryan hear that someone has accessed the couple's accounts. Finally. But whoever it was tried to withdraw money, not deposit the boat money.

[Garrett Moreland]

This is. This is crazy.

[Peyton Moreland]

And even sketchier, this transaction originated in Mexico.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, my.

[Peyton Moreland]

So at this point, the family's like, okay, we know they're a couple. They're full grown adults. We think something bad happened here. It's time to get the police involved. So that afternoon, 11 days after Jackie and Thomas were last heard from, they officially take this information to the Newport beach police station and file a missing person's report. And as they start interviewing those closest to the couple, they realize there was something a bit odd about the buyers of the Hawks's boat.

[Garrett Moreland]

This is crazy. So you're telling me that these people bought the boat, killed them, and are trying to get away with it? I mean, obviously we haven't gotten there yet, but I just don't. I really don't understand how people continue to think that they're gonna get away with this stuff.

[Peyton Moreland]

Right?

[Garrett Moreland]

Because it just doesn't. I don't know. It just doesn't. I don't think it happens very often. I do not think people get away with this large of a crime very often. It's like trying to rob a bank now and trying to get away with. And trying to get away with it. It's like, good luck.

[Peyton Moreland]

I mean, a couple puts out an ad saying they're trying to sell their boat, and then they go missing and the boat's still there. It's like, okay, not taken care of properly.

[Garrett Moreland]

Like some. Obviously something's going on. All right, guys, we're getting into an ad about Rocket Money. I use this, Peyton. I've been using this for years. We love Rocket Money. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Rocket Money shows you all your expenses in one place, including Subscriptions you forgot about. Vcu subscription you no longer want. Rocket Money will help you cancel it. It's amazing. It can help organize. You can connect all your banks, credit cards, debit cards, whatever you have. It can organize everything, tell you different categories. It's super intuitive. It's amazing to use.

[Peyton Moreland]

Garrett and I actually went through the other day and looked at our subscriptions on Rocket Money and we cut out a ton just because we were able to go in and do a clean out. Like, where else can you do that with your finances? It's honestly amazing. And Rocket Money will even try to negotiate lower bills for you. The app automatically scans your bills to find opportunities to save and then goes to work to get you better deals. I'll even talk to customer service so you don't have to. Honestly worth it.

[Garrett Moreland]

Rocket Money's 5 million members have saved a total of 500 million in canceled subscriptions, with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all of the apps premium features. Cancel your own subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Download the Rocket Money app and enter our show Murder with My Husband in this survey so they know we sent you. Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from our show.

[Peyton Moreland]

This show is sponsored by Liquid iv. I'm gonna let Garrett take this away because he's the Liquid IV king.

[Garrett Moreland]

I love Liquid iv. It's really important to stay hydrated. I play a lot of sports, I am very active and I use these all the times. It makes a big difference. So I'm not dehydrated, I am not weak, I'm not fatigued, my body is ready to go. Honestly, these make a ginormous difference. Especially on days where I am doing two A days and I am working out and playing a Sport. Just one stick and 16 ounces of water hydrates better than water alone. Powered by Liv Hydra Science, an optimized ratio of electrolytes, essential vitamins, and clinically tested nutrients that turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration.

[Peyton Moreland]

Honestly, drinking water can be hard. Liquid IV gives you more bang for your buck while tasting good. I don't know what else you would want, so savor the last bits of summer with Liquid IV. Tear poor, live more. Go to Liquid IV.com and get 20% off your first order with code Husband. Check out you guys. If you are wanting Liquid iv, go online and use Code Husband at checkout to get 20 off. 20 off your first order with code husband@liquid IV.com so as police are looking into it, they obviously are going to try to track the buyers down because now, because they've had the buyers on the phone with family, they do believe these are the last people to have seen them. So they track the couple down who supposedly bought the boat. And the couple's names were Skyler and Jennifer deleon. Now apparently friends who spoke to Thomas before he disappeared said the deleon's replied to the article he put up in the boating magazine and they first met around November 6, 2004. So this was eight days before the Hawks were last seen. Now keep in mind, Thomas Hawks was a former vet turned police officer turned probation officer. I think it's safe to say he, he maybe could sniff people out, maybe see their intentions easier than other people. And when Thomas first laid eyes on the husband, 29 year old Skyler, that day, he thought, there's no way this person can afford this boat. They were asking $435,000 for the yacht. Plus Skyler seemed to know absolutely nothing about boats. Okay, so Thomas is thinking it kind of seems like a scam, like there's no way I'm going to sell the boat to these people. So this is when Skyler explains to Thomas that they're a former actor who made some money working on the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers TV show.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh wait, I'm sorry, I used to love the Rangers. Like love. Did you ever watch Power Rangers?

[Peyton Moreland]

No.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, like good stuff. Like good show, good show.

[Peyton Moreland]

So Skyler and the wife Jennifer had made some good money and they thought the boat would be a good investment.

[Garrett Moreland]

Investment, yes.

[Peyton Moreland]

And so Skyler calls Jennifer at this point and asks her to come down to the dock to meet the Hawks, check out the boat and she does. A short while later, the pregnant Jennifer comes down with their young daughter Haley and Jennifer and Jackie. So the wives begin bonding over the new babies in their lives. And after a longer conversation, feelings start to change about the deleon. Jackie and Thomas see them as just a young and hungry couple like themselves, eager for investments and adventures. And in fact, they feel so good about them that they even waived the customary good faith deposit. So they agree to meet up again the following week to hand off the funds and sign the paperwork.

[Garrett Moreland]

That's just not, that's not how it works. There's no way, there's no way.

[Peyton Moreland]

Would just be hard to meet like this scammer in person and like talk about family and stuff and then be like, when will they seem like good people?

[Garrett Moreland]

I know. Well, I think it's crazy because obviously they knew at some point they weren't going to get the money, which is why they're missing. So that's insane.

[Peyton Moreland]

After hearing this story that Thomas had talked to friends about, police think they have to get the De Leones in here and listen to their side of the story. And Skyler, the husband, seems pretty cooperative. They say, yeah, they met back up with the Hawks around November 15th. So after that original meeting, Skyler gave them the cash for the sell of the boat. And Skyler even showed the police the bill of sale for the boat. And it is fully equipped with Thomas's signature, fingerprints, even a stamp from a notary. Skyler said, yeah, the whole thing went off without a hitch. The Hawks gave us the keys and drove away. And that was the last time they ever saw the Hawks.

[Garrett Moreland]

The confusing part to me would be if, depending on if the notary stamp checks out, I go to the person who notarized it, and they agree with it. That part would confuse me if I was a detective or. Or a cop investigating this.

[Peyton Moreland]

Well, Skyler even tells the cops, we actually had a friend with us, someone who was there during the transaction, watched it all go down. You can call him. He's a guy named Alonzo Machine.

[Garrett Moreland]

What is happening?

[Peyton Moreland]

But first, the police speak with Jennifer, the wife, and she says were concerned as well. We've been trying to get in touch with the Hawks to tie up some loose ends with the sale, especially because they left a bunch of their belongings on the boat, and now we don't know where to send them. So police think everything is going kind of normal with this couple until Skyler admits something while they're talking to the police. That kind of catches them off guard. Skyler admits that the cash they used to buy the boat was drug money that they were trying to launder. Now, I have no idea why Skyler would just, like, openly admit this.

[Garrett Moreland]

Maybe he just assumed he was gonna get caught, and so he assumed also maybe to throw them off.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah, like, if I admit to something.

[Garrett Moreland]

If I admit to this, then they'll just investigate this and we can move on. So they don't think I murdered, because.

[Peyton Moreland]

Then I don't seem suspicious. I'm willing to admit something.

[Garrett Moreland]

That's why that's crazy.

[Peyton Moreland]

I'll give them a little. Right? So holy crap. If Skyler hadn't done this, the police probably would have just sent the couple on their way and stopped looking into them. Because they had a notary. They had the signature. They had a friend who said that they witnessed Everything go down.

[Garrett Moreland]

That's crazy.

[Peyton Moreland]

But that little comment to police was like, well, I'm going to like, we just need to keep them on our radar because obviously they, they're not too opposed to being involved in shady things. Especially when police go searching the well deserved for more clues. So the day after the Hawks are reported missing on November 27, 2004, police board their yacht. And one of the things they find on the yacht is a receipt from Target. Now, what's interesting is it's dated two days after the Hawks were last seen. And it's for things like trash bags, bleach, cleaning items.

[Garrett Moreland]

Here we go. Here we go.

[Peyton Moreland]

So the police go to the target that was listed on the receipt and they ask for surveillance footage from the date and time on it. They don't find Skyler or Jennifer at the Target though. They find Jennifer's father walking around shopping instead. So they question Jennifer's dad. He says he was sent on an errand by the couple that day. They told him they needed cleaning supplies for a volunteer job at their local church. But the timing of all of this and the fact that they found the receipt on board one of the last places the Hawks were ever seen, that sets off alarm bells for the police.

[Garrett Moreland]

I feel like it'd be a good idea. And I know it would probably be a hassle. And there's a lot of people who buy this stuff without being shady. But anytime a weapon like an ax or something that cuts anything and trash bags and bleach and rope is bought together, like the store should mark it.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah.

[Garrett Moreland]

And then if there's ever an investigation in the area, it's like alerted and it's like, oh, let's check out the cameras who came through here who bought this stuff.

[Peyton Moreland]

Right.

[Garrett Moreland]

Because, I mean, how many people are really buying rope, trash bags, bleach, and like, I don't know, a murder cleanup kit. A murder cleanup kit. Yeah, maybe a decent amount, but I feel like it wouldn't be too hard to note down.

[Peyton Moreland]

So at this point, police are like, we're gonna start digging into Skyler's past. And this is when they find out that Skyler is not the person the Hawks thought, what a surprise. So Skyler had a pretty rough childhood. Skyler had been around drugs a lot of their life since their father actually manufactured and sold them. But Skyler was a kid who had big dreams as, you know, Go Go, Power Rangers. Skyler wanted to be an actor. They were cast in the TV show Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. Mighty Morphin Power Rain, but not as a regular cast member. Like Skyler would tell people. Skyler was a background extra in the show a couple of times. So telling the Hawks that this is where the money for the boat came from and not from drug money wasn't true. Instead, when acting didn't become a full time thing for Skyler, they actually joined the Marines, where they ended up going awol, got a dishonorable discharge. And it was shortly after that that Skyler met Jennifer Henderson.

[Garrett Moreland]

Wow.

[Peyton Moreland]

Jennifer was a hairstylist and devoutly religious. Skyler was working as a mortgage lender at the time when the two fell in love, and together they moved into a unit on Jennifer's family property. Skyler got her pregnant almost right away, and they soon got married. But Skyler was not a great influence on Jennifer, as you can imagine. The two wasted away all their money. They racked up massive debt. They found ways to swindle people, to try and repay loans that they had taken, all while chasing dreams they didn't necessarily deserve, including a new one Skyler had come up with recently. Get on a boat, sell to Mexico, and spend their days living out on the ocean as a family. Now, obviously, that's where the Hawks came in. But the police knew something Jackie and Thomas didn't. Skyler, $87,000 in debt with a child on the way, was also a convicted felon. And at the time of the sale, Skyler was on probation for armed robbery.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, my gosh.

[Peyton Moreland]

Now, knowing all of this and that Skyler admitted to using drug money to try and purchase the boat, police have a really bad feeling about what actually may have happened the day.

[Garrett Moreland]

Did he think that they weren't going to look into him and check this out. I mean, it's so easy to be like, oh, he has a felony on his record.

[Peyton Moreland]

Also, Skyler had told the police something else that was kind of alarming alongside signing the boat over to them and watching them drive off into the sunset. Skyler says the Hawks gave him durable power of attorney because they were helping them secure a vacation home for them in Mexico.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, this is ridiculous.

[Peyton Moreland]

This is a massive red flag to police. Why would a couple sign over their power of attorney to someone they had met twice who was buying their boat?

[Garrett Moreland]

This is ridiculous.

[Peyton Moreland]

Especially for a home in Mexico when the whole reason they were even selling the boat and leaving the place they had chosen to retire to was to get back to Arizona to be with family. None of it made sense. But here was Skyler showing them paperwork with a witness, a notary and signatures from the couple. Though as they looked closer at this document, something stood out to investigators. Jackie had signed her last name Hawk, not Hawks. They started to wonder, was this intentional? Did Jackie sign her name like that, hoping Skyler wouldn't be able to access their funds because of the discrepancy? Or was she forced to sign it under duress? With all of this incredibly sketchy information, the police feel a lot of pressure to find the Hawks and quickly, or at the very least to gather more information and begin building a case against Skyler.

[Garrett Moreland]

There's sadly, there's no way they're alive. Like there's no way.

[Peyton Moreland]

And about a month after the Hawks disappear, the police get a lead that really gets the ball rolling. In December, Ryan Hawks goes to the media. Remember, this is the son asking for help from the police on his parents whereabouts. And that's when a retired couple living in San Miguel, Mexico hears about the case. And the couple says, hey, there's a car that's been abandoned next to the mobile home by us. And we're pretty sure it's your missing parents car. So on December 16, 2004, police knock on the door of that mobile home and sure enough, the person says, oh yeah, someone just gave me this car back on November 26th. And when they show the personal lineup of suspects, this person in Mexico, they pick Skyler out immediately and say, yeah, that's the person who gave me this car.

[Garrett Moreland]

Holy crap. Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

Now Skyler has been insisting this entire time they had nothing to do with Hawk the Hawks's disappearance. That Skyler says, oh, I've never been in the car either. But now that seems to be a lie. So the police impound the car and scan it for DNA evidence. Meanwhile, they speak with Skyler's probation officer and find Skyler had asked for permission to leave the country around the same time that November for work. So with that information, police have more than enough to get Skyler in custody. They arrest them the following day on December 17th. But not for murder. They arrest Skyler for money laundering Admission because it's hard to prove murder when you don't have a body. But the police don't plan to stop there. They keep on digging, knowing it's only a matter of time before the truth surfaces. So after the arrest, detectives search the De Leon's home and they find a bunch of items belonging to Jackie and Thomas. In that home they find Jackie's laptop, the video camera, the batteries to both of their cell phones, personal documents, their IDs.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh my gosh.

[Peyton Moreland]

They also get results from the DNA analysis on the Hawk's car and confirm that Skyler's DNA was all over the inside of the vehicle, proving that Skyler had lied about being in the vehicle. So they tracked down the notary Skyler used to verify the power of attorney and bow ownership documents.

[Garrett Moreland]

That's what my next question was. Is the. Is this real? Is this notary? Like, is this real?

[Peyton Moreland]

They call her in for questioning. Her name is Kathleen Harris. Now, this wasn't Kathleen's first time sitting in front of the police for this case. She had already been called in a few times and insisted each time that she saw Jackie and Thomas sign that paperwork in front of her. But after Skyler's arrest, her tune starts to change. She admits to police she actually didn't notarize them in person, but instead, after the fact, in a hotel room.

[Garrett Moreland]

And so she was bribed or paid for it A hundred percent.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah. Kathleen confesses to being paid $2,000 to backdate the documents.

[Garrett Moreland]

2,000? You're doing this for $2,000? I hope you're going to be in jail for the next 10 years.

[Peyton Moreland]

So the next person up is the supposed friend and witness to those document sightings, Alonzo. Skyler told the police that Alonzo was with them when they went to pick up the keys for the boat. So police go searching for Alonzo, bring him back in for questioning, and they find that he's actually fled down to Mexico. So they start making a deal with Alonzo. Come back to the United States. We'll make sure if you are found guilty of a crime, the death penalty won't be on the table. And shockingly, he agrees. In March of 2005, Alonzo comes back to California, where he finally tells the police what had actually happened that day between Skyler and the Hawks. A Mochi moment from Sadie, who writes, I'm not crying. You're crying. This is what I said during my first appointment with my physician at Mochi because I didn't have to convince him I needed a GLP one. He understood and I felt supported, not judged. I came for the weight loss and stayed for the empathy. Thanks, Sadie. I'm Mayra Amit, founder of Mochi Health. To find your mochi moment, visit joinmochistan.com Sadie is emoji member compensated for her story.

[Garrett Moreland]

Start speaking a new language with confidence thanks to Babel's conversation based technique that quickly teaches useful words and phrases about things you can actually talk about in the real world.

[Peyton Moreland]

As you guys know, I always use Babel to brush up on my Spanish because Garrett speaks Spanish fluently and sometimes I just feel left out of conversations and so I really do use Babel to just give me that good base I'm looking for. And there's over a dozen languages available to learn at your own pace so you can achieve your goals with material tailored to your individual proficiency level, interest and time availability.

[Garrett Moreland]

Apple's tips and tools for learning a new language are approachable and accessible. It's like having a private tutor in your pocket. Staying motivated to learn a new language has never been easier thanks to real time feedback, progress trackers and handy visualizations and only 10 to 15 minutes a day on Babel's mobile app or website. With over 16 million subscriptions sold, Babel's 14 award winning language courses are backed by a 20 day money back guarantee. So get talking with Babel.

[Peyton Moreland]

I want you to learn another language. So I'm teaming up with Babel to gift you 55 off subscriptions. You guys 55 off? That's only for our [e-mail] husband get up to 55 [e-mail] husband spelled b a B-B-E-L.com husband babel.com husband rules and restrictions may apply so Alonzo and Skyler met years ago, back in prison when Skyler was an inmate and Alonzo was working as a jailer in Seal Beach, California. Apparently, the two stayed close even after Skyler's release. So when Alonzo received a call from Skyler asking for a favor in the fall of 2004, Alonzo listened. According to Alonzo, Skyler told him, I'm working as an international hitman now and I need help getting rid of a dangerous couple named Thomas and Jackie Hawks. Now, of course we know this is a lie, but it seemed to be enough to get Alonzo involved. The truth was Skyler was just looking for a get rich quick scheme and didn't care whose life it cost. So Skyler replied to the ad Thomas Hawks put in the paper. Assuming this couple who was selling their half a million dollar yacht likely had money in other places as well. Skyler met with the couple around the 12th, and when Thomas seemed hesitant of Skyler, they called Jennifer to come down with the daughter. Make it seem good. Earn the trust. But there was something Skyler also noticed that day. Thomas Hawks was a big guy. Remember, he was a former bodybuilder. If Skyler was going to follow through with the plan, which was to take the Hawks out to sea, get them to sign their riches away and then leave them for dead. They were going to need reinforcements other than Alonzo. So after that meeting, Skyler recruited a gang member named John Fitzgerald Kennedy to also help with this entire scheme. With the Hawks agreeing to sell their boat to Skyler, they plan to meet back up on the 15th to give Skyler the keys. And when that day came, this is exactly what happened. Skyler didn't grab the keys and watch the Hawks drive off in their Honda like Skyler had told police. Instead, Skylar introduced Alonzo and John F. Kennedy. Yes, that is the gang member's name, to the Hawks, saying they were business associates.

[Garrett Moreland]

Bro, as soon as I heard his name was John F. Kennedy, I'd be like, I'm going home.

[Peyton Moreland]

So all of them board the boat and set out into the sunset just for like a little ride before the cell of the boat. And that's when Jackie made that final phone call to her friend that day at 406 saying, hey, we're out at sea. And it would be the last phone call she ever made.

[Garrett Moreland]

So it's so heartbreaking because once everyone.

[Peyton Moreland]

Was out in open waters to sell this boat, things got ugly fast. John pretended to be seasick and went down to the stateroom on the lower deck. Skyler followed, and minutes later, Thomas went down to check on them, leaving Jackie alone with Alonzo on the main deck. So while down there, John and Skyler ambushed Thomas. They began punching him using a stun gun on the 57 year old former bodybuilder. They handcuffed him and put duct tape over his mouth. Jackie, who heard this commotion below, was then overpowered by Alonzo, who did the same exact thing. He then brought her down to the.

[Garrett Moreland]

Stateroom, heartbreaking and horrible, next to her husband.

[Peyton Moreland]

The two were then held at gunpoint and told if they signed a bill of cell for the yacht, a power of attorney document, and gave their passwords to their bank accounts, they would be dropped off on the border of Mexico somewhere, safe and sound. So they removed a handcuff to let each of them sign and to roll their fingerprints for the notarization. But Thomas, being a former parole officer, didn't believe for a second these people were just gonna let him and his wife go. So when his handcuff was off, he fought back. Except the Hawks were overpowered. In the end, the three assailants tied the Hawks to the 66 pound anchor and sent them over the side of their own ship.

[Garrett Moreland]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Peyton Moreland]

Then Skyler and the accomplices sailed back to port, stole a Few more things off the boat, Skylar walked away with a signed fortune in their hands.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, that is. I can't, dude.

[Peyton Moreland]

So after getting this confession from Alonzo, police have more than enough to charge him, Skyler and John F. Kennedy with two counts of first degree murder. They charge Skyler's wife Jennifer with murder as well, even though in the story, she's not actually on the boat that day.

[Garrett Moreland]

Bull crap.

[Peyton Moreland]

By the way, police learn after going through the Dalian's home that this wasn't the first time Skyler had committed murder. For some cash. Inside Skylar's house, investigators discover a business card. It was for a Los Angeles police officer who had been working with the Mexican police and was looking into Skyler over the last year. Turns out one of Skyler's fellow former inmates, a man named John Jarvi, was murdered in Mexico a year earlier. His throat was slashed ear to ear. What police didn't know until after unraveling the Hawks's case was how closely Skyler had been involved with that murder earlier. Apparently, Skyler had sold John on a business proposition. After they were released, John gave Skyler 50,000 in cash and then went with Skyler to Mexico, where the deal was supposed to take place. Instead, Skyler pocketed the cash and John never returned to America. Going missing. Now, hearing about the similarities and how this man and the Hawks as a died, police feel confident they can also charge Skyler with the death of John Jarvi.

[Garrett Moreland]

Dude, I can't stop thinking about this one. It's just that would. I don't know if there's anything worse than being with your significant other and you guys are tied to an anchor together and thrown over when you're just.

[Peyton Moreland]

Selling your boat to go meet your future grandbaby. Your first grandbaby.

[Garrett Moreland]

I think a lot of it is the feeling of being completely helpless.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yes.

[Garrett Moreland]

Like, that makes me sick to my stomach.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah.

[Garrett Moreland]

That's insane.

[Peyton Moreland]

And there's like three people on this ship.

[Garrett Moreland]

Well, they have families. Like, they have kid. Like, it's just this whole thing is absolutely. There's just lots I want to say that I can't say on the podcast. That blows my mind.

[Peyton Moreland]

It's gross. I don't know. Like, gross isn't even. There's not a word.

[Garrett Moreland]

Like, I just. Look, I know a lot of listeners disagree with this, and they'd probably change their minds if it was their family that was tied to an anchor and thrown overboard. That's the thing about these cases is. And everyone can have their own opinions. It really doesn't bother me, but you gather up the killers, you tie them to an anchor, and you throw them overboard. Like, it's just crazy. It's crazy that they did that to two innocent people. And we're just like, yeah, let's just throw them in jail for the rest of their lives. No, no, they just killed Ish. I can't. I can't. I could rant about this forever.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah, it's just one of those things where, like, imagine being the son who was so excited for his dad and stepmom, who he loved, to move back to Arizona and be there for the birth of his first child, their first grandbaby. They're gonna spend time together as a family. His dad had worked so hard. They're finally retired, and then you're just like, no, there's no possible way that my. My dad put an ad out to sell this boat to come be with me.

[Garrett Moreland]

And was killed.

[Peyton Moreland]

And was killed because of this. Like, someone took advantage of this and killed him.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, it's. It's disgusting.

[Peyton Moreland]

So when the trial begins, the state actually is like, hey, Jennifer will give you full immunity if you testify against your husband.

[Garrett Moreland]

And she did.

[Peyton Moreland]

She refuses. She goes on trial in November of 2006 and is found guilty of first degree murder and is sentenced to two life terms.

[Garrett Moreland]

She refuses full immunity.

[Peyton Moreland]

Refuses it.

[Garrett Moreland]

I promise. Your husband doesn't love you as much as you think he does.

[Peyton Moreland]

My thing is. Is like, you're. You were pregnant at the time of the murder, and also you have a daughter.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

That maybe better for the kids that she goes to prison.

[Garrett Moreland]

But so sad because now the parent, now the kid doesn't have a mom.

[Peyton Moreland]

Like, I don't know.

[Garrett Moreland]

I mean, granted, I mean, do I want the kids parents to be murdered? I don't know. But, yeah, it's. Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

Meanwhile, Skyler has no problem throwing her under the bus.

[Garrett Moreland]

There we go.

[Peyton Moreland]

Skyler says it was Jennifer's idea in the first place to kill this couple for the money.

[Garrett Moreland]

What I'm talking about doesn't matter.

[Peyton Moreland]

After the trial in the fall of 2008, jurors found Skyler guilty of all three murders. Thomas, Jackie, and John Jarvie. Skyler was given the death penalty, which In California in 2008, John F. Kennedy was also found guilty. Again, this is not John F. Kennedy. Kennedy was also found guilty of the Hawks murders and sentenced to death. And Alonzo made a deal with the prosecution. Testifying in Jennifer Schuyler and John's trials, Alonzo pled guilty to two counts of voluntary manslaughter was sentenced to 20 years behind bars. But there's one final twist in this story, one that most people don't see coming. While waiting for death row, the now 45 year old Skyler Deleon made a confession. They wanted to steal the Hawks's money to pay for gender affirming surgery. Skyler was actually still able to follow through on that desire due to a federally funded program that must provide gender affirming care to inmates in California. So while sitting on death row, Skyler began taking hormones in 2009, received a breast augmentation in April of 2023, and is now waiting to be transferred to a female prison. Now, the only reason I'm even including this is because why do you get to live your dream life in prison? Why do you get to go live.

[Garrett Moreland]

Your life killing people?

[Peyton Moreland]

They didn't get to live out their dreams of being with their grandbaby.

[Garrett Moreland]

Nope. That's.

[Peyton Moreland]

That bothers me. And it has nothing to do with gender. It. But it bothers me that they.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yes.

[Peyton Moreland]

Get to go and live out a dream that they wanted.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's. I mean, I know and Peyton disagreed with me on this because it's. I'm a lot more extreme in this case, but it's exactly what I was saying when I was like, why do they get to kill people and then go to prison and live happily ever after? To an extent.

[Peyton Moreland]

And according to Skyler.

[Garrett Moreland]

No, no, no, no.

[Peyton Moreland]

The only reason they killed the Hawks was for money for this surgery. And then they. They just get to go do the surgery anyways.

[Garrett Moreland]

That's wild.

[Peyton Moreland]

It just feels like a stab, the last stab to the victim's family. It has nothing to do with gender. Everything to do with the fact that the motive for this murder was then fulfilled.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, no, that's.

[Peyton Moreland]

You know what I mean?

[Garrett Moreland]

100. It's mind blowing.

[Peyton Moreland]

That's so frustrating.

[Garrett Moreland]

Very, very frustrating.

[Peyton Moreland]

Because of Skyler, Thomas and Jackie Hawks will not have the future that they worked hard for. They will not get to carry out their days quietly as grandparents. They will not get to watch their kids and their grandkids grow old because Skyler took that away from them all to fulfill Skyler's own hopes and desires. And that is the murder of Thomas and Jackie Hawks.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, my gosh. I feel like these cases just frustrate me more and more each week.

[Peyton Moreland]

And I don't know, I guess if you're trying to say like, prison reform versus prison penalty.

[Garrett Moreland]

You keep me. I'm. You keep me out of this conversation because I will Stand on death.

[Peyton Moreland]

Because if you.

[Garrett Moreland]

I don't know how else how to say it, because that is.

[Peyton Moreland]

I guess my question is, is if you have been sentenced to the death penalty, prison is about. Isn't about reform.

[Garrett Moreland]

No.

[Peyton Moreland]

Right. I just think it's a penalty. So why do death row inmates get the ability to reform? You know what I mean?

[Garrett Moreland]

I think my thing in general, too, is if you are in prison for first or second degree murder. Murder. Okay. Or if. Even if you just want to take this case by case and you don't want to go a little more broad and first and second degree murder, even if you want to take it case by case, after listening to the case. I'm sorry, they're not. These people are not being reformed. You cannot convince me otherwise. They brutally murdered people. Stealing from them, and you're telling me they can be reformed? Bull crap. Bull crap.

[Peyton Moreland]

Here's my thing. Now, I understand that from. If you're focusing on reform, I understand why there are certain things in prison that are there for mental health reasons to provide the best avenue for reformation. Is that the word?

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, but Reformation. Reformation. Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

But if. If you're. If you've been sentenced to the death penalty, you're not there for that. You're there for your penalty. So that. That is where I'm like, mind blown. And obviously, like, I mean, I think we've talked about this before, but I am not pro death penalty. So this is. This doesn't actually even really affect me. But, like, I guess my beliefs in that. But I. This case, just like, I think the fact that Skyler came out and was like, I did this all so I could get this surgery and then got the surgery, like, to me, that is so freaking frustrating from the victim.

[Garrett Moreland]

I mean, and I know people. Yeah. And maybe this example isn't the best example. This is Garrett speaking, not Payton. It's like someone being like, I robbed the bank and killed a bunch of people because I want to be rich.

[Peyton Moreland]

And I got the money and I'm.

[Garrett Moreland]

In prison and now I get all the money. No, no. This is not how the world works. This is not how it works.

[Peyton Moreland]

It doesn't even have to be this. Exactly what Garrett just said. It doesn't have to be this exact example. It's like, oh, well, I killed her so I could get the guy, and then in prison, I got the guy.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

It's like, oh, it's just that last. Like, we don't get to have her.

[Garrett Moreland]

Cake and eat it, too.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yes.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's not how this works.

[Peyton Moreland]

So freaking annoying.

[Garrett Moreland]

The bull crap. I'm pissed.

[Peyton Moreland]

I just don't like that. It doesn't feel like justice to me.

[Garrett Moreland]

I'm pissed off. I'm pissed anyways. All right, we can end this. Sorry, everybody.

[Peyton Moreland]

I think we're just ranting at this point. All right, you guys, let us know in the comments what you think. Obviously, like, I think keep it respectful, because these are just opinions at this point, and this case is a little different, but I just think that there has to be justice at some point, you know?

[Garrett Moreland]

Yes.

[Peyton Moreland]

All right, you guys, we will see you next time with another one. I love it and I hate it. Goodbye.