A (2:36)

I need to take a video of you doing it because it's actually really cute.

B (2:40)

Thanks. Peyton said, does that mean you're going to start cooking now? I said, no. Nope, I am not. It's as far as my cooking and baking skills go is bagels. Nothing else. Just bagels.

A (2:52)

Oh. Made me so sad because for those.

B (2:54)

Who don't know, Peyton and I, we don't.

A (2:56)

Neither of us enjoy cooking.

B (2:57)

Neither of us enjoy cooking. We'll make crock pot meals every once in a while, but we don't. We don't enjoy cooking. And that's okay. To each their own. No big deal. On that note, let's get into today's episode.

A (3:07)

Our sources for this episode are newsweek.com, people.com, oxygen.com, dailymail.co.uk, abcnews.go.com, medium.com, chillingcrimes.com entertainmentnow.com vocal media spectrum, local news.com BBC.com cbsnews.com and press connects.com we've seen this scenario happen a lot on this show. Someone knows they're about to get caught for a crime and before an arrest warrant is issued, they hop a plane. Maybe they set off to Europe, Asia, somewhere deep in South America, only for police to realize there is no way they're getting that person back because many countries have complicated extradition policies, which means there will be no trial in the United States unless that person willingly steps foot on American soil. Again, it's a heartbreaking loophole that allows many criminals to get away with their crimes and leaves families feeling hopeless when it comes to getting justice. Well, today's case is not one of those stories. Instead, it's about two countries actually coming together to fight a complicated legal battle, working in unison to get justice. So let's Travel back to 2018 and meet 22 year old college student Haley Anderson. Now, Haley grew up in Westbury, New York, about an hour east of New York City in Long Island. She was the kind of girl who seemed very close with her parents, Karen and Gordon and and her older sister, Madeline. Now, they described Haley as hard working, compassionate, extremely outgoing and a free spirit. She's friends with everyone she sees the good in everyone and just wants to help everyone. Which was why Haley was thrilled when she was accepted into the Binghamton University's nursing school program. And I'm sure it came as a shock to no one, though, because Haley was a straight A student growing up across the board. However, going into the nursing program meant Haley would be putting in five years of schooling rather than your traditional four. But she didn't seem to mind. She was only a few hours from home, so she could make the trip back to see her family whenever she wanted now that she's, you know, going off to college. So she had a job once she moves there at the on campus coffee shop, and she actually works here for three years where she ends up meeting even more students, she makes even more friends, and she eventually in college, gets a boyfriend that she cares a lot about. It's a fellow student named Kevin Ocampo. Now, everyone felt Kevin and Haley were a great match for each other. He really allowed her to be her best self. He never tried to change her. Like a lot of relationships in college, the two were unsure whether or not life was would lead them down the same path. Haley already had a job lined up for when she graduated in the spring of 2018. The plan was to return to Long island and work in the emergency room at Northwell Health. And while I'm not sure what Kevin's plans were, I can tell you that they didn't really seem to align with Haley's moving back to Long island and working there. Because over the course of their college experience, the two of them actually were kind of on and off. Kevin claimed he really was in love with Haley and saw himself being with her. But Haley wasn't as sure. There was still a part of her that wanted to just live life, go out and date, have some freedom and enjoy being young before she settled down into her serious job and a serious relationship. Which is why during her last year of school, her senior year of college, Haley started seeing other people. And meanwhile, she began studying for her nursing boards and soaking up the last few months of college with her roommates and best friends. These girls were named Josie Artin and Michelle Tapali. Now, the three of them, Haley, Josie and Michella, were extremely close. They were the kind of friends in college that you tell everything to. And they said Haley was supportive and sensitive, just an amazing friend. Which was what made what happened that March in 2018 so incredibly devastating. On that night, March 8, Haley, Josie and Michella, the three best friends, stayed up late into the night drinking and playing board games. Around 3am the girls finally called it a night. But when Josie and Michelle wake up later that morning, they realize Haley still isn't up and out of bed. So they end up checking her room and and discover that she's not in bed. Now, to Haley's friends, this isn't too alarming. They're all adults. They sleep away from the house. From time to time they figure maybe Haley just went to meet up with someone late and spent the night there instead. So the day goes by and that evening Josie is doing a poetry reading at a local bar. And this is a big deal to Josie. And Haley knows that her two friends were going to come and support her, including Haley. But then that evening she doesn't show up, which is totally unlike Haley. And it's alarming because she's not answering any of her friends texts or calls either. And maybe even stranger, she hasn't been active on social media all day. So that's when Josie and Michella turn to the Find My friends app on their phones. They discover that Haley's cell phone is at a friend's house. Someone she had been seeing casually named Orlando Tesoro. So now I'm going to tell you a little bit about Mr. Orlando, okay? He's a 22 year old nursing student. Just like Haley, he was born in Miami, Florida. He was actually raised in Nicaragua, where his family was still living. So he had dual citizenship in both countries. His dad was a prominent doctor there. So Orlando always wanted to follow in his footsteps and go into the medical field, which was how he even landed in the nursing program with Haley. They had met during her sophomore year, though the two were just friends. Over time though, particularly after going on and off with her pretty steady boyfriend, Kevin, the relationship between Haley and Orlando became more romantic. At first, a lot of people felt like Orlando and Haley had a lot more in common. Both were excellent students. They both seemed compassionate, understanding, and they like to have a good time. However, there was one thing that made it a little bit more complicated, and that's that Orlando and Kevin, Haley's ex, were in a fraternity together. In fact, Haley was the one who originally introduced Orlando to Kevin. And he liked Orlando so much that he invited him to pledge. So Kevin is shocked when he hears that Haley and Orlando have been seeing each other when him and Haley are in an off point.

B (10:34)

Okay.

A (10:34)

But he also knew that Haley had made it clear to Orlando that she wasn't looking for anything serious, especially with graduation coming up. And while Kevin didn't seem to make it A thing. It appears his frat brothers were pretty annoyed with this situation. They thought it was annoying for Orlando to not have a loyalty to Kevin, his fraternity brother. So once they heard that Orlando and Haley had started seeing each other, they actually kicked him out. To kick Orlando out of the fraternity.

B (11:03)

Bros. Nevermind.

A (11:05)

Anyways, so Orlando doesn't seem too bothered by it. I guess to him, maintaining his friendship and relationship with Haley seemed more important. It's now the morning of March 9, 2018, and Haley doesn't show up to that poetry reading. And her friends see that her cell phone's at Orlando's. So they give it some time before panicking, because this is obviously a known place to them. Though they do try to reach out to Orlando, and he's not answering his calls or texts either. In fact, another friend of Orlando's also hasn't heard from him or Haley in a day or so. But his theory is this. He thinks the two of them ran off together and eloped. However, Orlando's sister thinks something totally different. She says that she had received a strange message from her brother. So essentially, these two nursing students who are dating are both miss. So on the morning of the 9th, Orlando's sister calls police to go to his house to do a welfare check. Now, when police show up and knock on Orlando's door, they notice his car isn't in the driveway. No one seems to be home, so they leave without going inside. But later that same day, around 1pm, Josie and Michelle are now really worried. It is not like Haley to go this long without calling them or making contact. So they decide to take a ride over to Orlando's house too. This is just a few hours after police leave.

B (12:23)

I was gonna ask if they still have her location, but maybe. But maybe. But maybe you don't know.

A (12:27)

No, it is at his house.

B (12:28)

Oh, okay. So location's still live and active.

A (12:31)

Yes.

B (12:32)

Okay, but.

A (12:32)

So they show up. They're like, okay, his car isn't in the driveway, but they decide to get out, start knocking on doors. Now, when that doesn't work, these two girls spot an open window to his apartment.

B (12:44)

Let's go.

A (12:45)

Josie boosts Michella inside, and she climbs in herself.

B (12:48)

The good friends. Yes, that's what I'm talking about.

A (12:51)

Might be breaking and entering, but nah, it doesn't count. In the sake of saving your friends.

B (12:56)

Yep, doesn't count. This show is sponsored by Better Help. They've helped people find the one in therapy at least for over 10 years. And with a 4.9 rating from 1.7 million sessions. You know you're in good hands. All therapists on BetterHelp are fully licensed in the US and follow a really strict code of conduct so you know you're getting legit help.

A (13:19)

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B (13:44)

Peyton and I talk about it all the time. We both love therapy. We think therapy is an important part of life. We both do therapy. So if you are curious at all and you want to talk to someone honestly, try Better Help. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, Better Help can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of Expertise. Find the one with Better Help our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com husband that's Better Help. H E L p.com/husband are you guys.

A (14:16)

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B (16:19)

Wow. Okay. And Orlando's obviously not there.

A (16:22)

So back at the crime scene, there is one very telling clue about what had gone down. It's actually a note that was left from Orlando that was written in Spanish and when translated the note reads, quote, I'm really sorry about this. I never felt I could be capable of doing this. Oh my God, Father, I will see you soon.

B (16:44)

Oh my gosh. So he's obviously going to go back to Nicaragua, right?

A (16:48)

Let me back up just a little. As I mentioned, Orlando's sister had received a strange text from him on March 9, which is why she even called the cops saying that he was also missing and asked them to do the welfare check. That text said, quote, he had done something bad and was now a disgrace to the family. So I'm not sure if it was these specific texts that made her panic or if it was something else. But when a member of your family sends you something elusive like that, it, it's gonna freak you out. So that's the first very big clue that Orlando did this to Haley despite the fact that she's dead in his bed. But Orlando himself is nowhere to be found. And what went down between him and Hailey is still a mystery. But luckily there's security camera footage at Orlando's apartment that helps piece the story together for cops. And here's what it shows at around 3:15am on the morning of March 8. So this was after Haley and her friends had had their night with board games and the two went to bed. Haley decided to go over to Orlando's house.

B (17:55)

I how do you just kill someone?

A (17:57)

They are shown entering together right around the same time and Haley looks to be willingly entering the home with him. But seven hours later, Orlando is seen leaving his apartment. And this time he's alone. He moves some stuff away from his driveway and then he pulls his car out and takes off. They track him and learn he went to a local pharmacy and got NyQuil and melatonin, sleep aids and the footage shows him arriving back at his apartment. He goes inside and again doesn't come out for another seven or so hours. And when he finally does, he heads towards the apartment complex's basement. Now, when police went down there to examine what he had possibly done down there, they find something pretty telling. Hooks and a rope. It looked like Orlando had gone down there to attempt suicide.

B (18:59)

Ah, okay.

A (19:00)

But there is also some blood on the floor, as well as other evidence that suggests he seems to have fallen in the process and hurt himself. And that is actually where they find the note he left, the one that says, I'm sorry.

B (19:15)

Okay, so he was saying sorry because he was going to unalive himself.

A (19:20)

So. Because. Yes, because he says, father, I'll see you soon. But Orlando's father had passed away five years earlier. So, yes, the note was originally a suicide note.

B (19:31)

Oh, okay. Okay.

A (19:32)

We also think the sleeping aids were probably purchased to aid in this attempt as well. But this still doesn't answer their lingering questions because this obviously was a failed attempt. So where did Orlando go? And what could have happened between him and Haley to even motivate this murder? So as police are trying to track Orlando down, they begin speaking to Haley's friends and family to see what they know about this relationship. And they realize quickly, Orlando was a lot more committed to Haley than she was to him. Apparently, almost from the beginning, Orlando was jealous of Kevin and the relationship he had with Haley. And when she was single, he won her over with sob stories about his life. And Haley's very compassionate. She wants to help. She wants to be there for Orlando. But then their relationship becomes more romantic, and Orlando's obsession with Haley apparently grew out of control. He began showing up at her house uninvited. Sometimes he refused to leave, even after being asked to. Other times, he would show up and smoke a cigarette on their porch. He would drive past the house slowly to see if Haley was home. Josie said she was often the one who would have to tell Orlando off because Haley was too nice. She didn't want to hurt his feelings. Then there was a night on September 15, 2017, when Haley and Kevin showed up to a party at Orlando's apartment together. And at that party, they announced that they were back together. Haley told Orlando that night that things were obviously over between them. They couldn't keep seeing each other romantically, but she wanted to remain good friends, and Orlando freaked out. That evening, several people saw Orlando shouting at her. Then the following day, after spending the night at Kevin's, Haley went out to her car to find that all of her tires had been slashed.

B (21:22)

Oh, my gosh.

A (21:24)

Now, Kevin and it is crazy. Both knew it was Orlando, but he denied it. And when Haley's parents suggested she file a police report and press charges, she said she didn't want to because the damage was over $600. So it would have been considered a felony, meaning Orlando could have been kicked out of the nursing school. And Haley was like, I don't want to do that to him. Instead, Haley put some distance between her and Orlando for a while, but eventually he kind of weasels his way back in to her good graces. Something. It was because Haley felt guilty, mainly for getting him expelled from his fraternity and then getting back together with Kevin. Others said that Orlando would threaten her emotionally, saying he was going to self harm if she wasn't there for him.

B (22:10)

I. I am. How do I say this? I. I hate that. I feel like that happens a few times in some of the cases we do. And that's just. That's just not okay. Yeah, that's just extremely. It's extremely selfish.

A (22:27)

And just listen, I understand love can cause really intense feelings, but putting your life in someone else's hands or on their shoulders is manipulative.

B (22:40)

It's honestly, it's selfish is what it is.

A (22:42)

Just a line we shouldn't cross.

B (22:44)

Nope.

A (22:45)

So By March of 2018, it seems like Haley was kind of nearing the end of her rope. She was reportedly telling her friends she just wanted this friendship to be over with Orlando. So the police start to wonder, did Haley go over there that night to finally just have a talk with Orlando and say, hey, like, we're not friends. You've taken it too far. We can't even be friends now. And if so, that is what happened. He clearly didn't take it well. So even though the police think they have their motive, there's still one problem. Orlando is mia.

B (23:19)

I mean, he could easily be in another country by now as well.

A (23:22)

Well, luckily, the footage from his apartment offers a slight indication of where he went next, because after his failed attempt, he's seen on cameras getting into his car with luggage.

B (23:32)

Yep.

A (23:32)

Police are like, he's obviously on the run. And they begin checking local airports pretty quickly. They find that Orlando had driven three hours to JFK International Airport in New York City. They actually spot him on security footage there walking around with a bandage on his head, which confirms their theory that he probably injured himself. And it doesn't take much for them to figure out where he went. At 8:40am on Friday, March 9, he boarded a plane to Nicaragua. Remember, Orlando has dual citizenship from growing up there. It's going to be a huge problem for police because he is a citizen there and the authorities in Nicaragua don't have to extradite him back to the U.S. it's, it's their discretion. They get to decide what to do. So police are like, well, that's it. He got away with murder. When Orlando lands in Nicaragua, his mother picks him up from the airport. Clueless as to why he's even there. She drives him three hours north to their hometown called Chinondaga. And for the next several days, that is where Orlando stays. Meanwhile, US officials are putting everything together, realize that he did this, and they're trying to get in touch with authorities in Nicaragua because on Sunday, March 11, the police department officially names Orlando their number one suspect in Haley's murder. Now it's clear at this point Orlando is feeling the heat because just four days after his arrival in Nicaragua, he makes another suicide attempt. This time his mother drives him to the city of Leon, about an hour south to get him help, check him into a psychiatric hospital. The thing is though, by this point, the Nicaraguan authorities had been in touch with American officials because obviously they got a hold of him and they tell them, yeah, we're willing to help you investigate to an extent. Oh, Haley's story had actually been on the news in Nicaragua because of all of this. And it seems someone working at the hospital recognized Orlando after he was admitted and reported it to the authorities. So on March 13, 22 year old Orlando was arrested by police at the hospital. Now this is something that we've probably like is probably a newer age thing. You probably used to be able to flee America and it would be easier to not get spotted.

B (25:58)

Yeah, well, and also everyone talks about it. I also think the authorities, when it's like a pretty big charge in other countries, they help a lot more than they used to as well or gained.

A (26:09)

A lot of attention.

B (26:10)

Yeah. And so it's, it's definitely a newer thing, Right. I feel like we used to say growing up, oh, they can flee to Mexico and get away. I mean, yeah, sure, there's, there's a chance of that happening still, but it's a lot harder. Things have changed. Yeah. With technology and everything going on, it's, it's a lot harder.

A (26:25)

You're able to track probably where they went. And then with social media, I mean, people in that area now can know that, hey, we.

B (26:32)

And also, yeah, people don't want a killer around them.

A (26:34)

No.

B (26:35)

If it's on the news, someone's like, wait, that that person just killed someone. I don't want to die.

A (26:39)

Back in the day, you had a hope that somehow the wanted poster was up there in the bulletin board. You know what I mean?

B (26:45)

Exactly. Yep.

A (26:46)

So on March 13th, the 22 year old Orlando was arrested by police at the hospital. And by Saturday, March 17, prosecutors in New York had filed formal charges against Orlando, murder in the second degree. But now the question was, how would his fate be decided? Would the authorities work with the US and send him back to the country to withstand trial? Or did Orlando still have a chance of walking free? Well, as this was all being determined, Haley's family back in New York laid her to rest about two weeks after Orlando was caught. And then two months after that came a day that should have been one of the biggest in Haley's life. Graduation. Instead of walking on stage, accepting her diploma and going off to her new job, a seat was dedicated to Haley with a framed picture of her in her place. Haley's father, Gordon walked the stage and accepted Haley's diploma in her honor. And meanwhile, the Broome county da, Steve Cornwell, holds out hope that Nicaraguan authorities will extradite Orlando to stand trial. Sometimes I will pick out the perfect outfit. I put it on, I leave and realize that the base of my outfit, my underwear, has ruined the outfit for me because it is bunching, it is moving, it is giving me a wedgie.

B (28:04)

It is.

A (28:04)

And I feel uncomfortable, which then makes me hate my perfect outfit. And that is why I have recently become obsessed with skims. I have told you before that the Fits Everybody fabric at skims, it's perfect. I don't know what else to tell you. It doesn't move. It is buttery, soft, it feels good on your skin. And honestly, they have it in a ton of products. But the Fits Everybody boy shorts underwear is what I have been raving about lately. Honestly, I ordered a pair for this ad and then ordered like six more pairs after I put them on because I was like, this is the only underwear I ever want to wear again. And don't even get me started on the Fits Everybody crossover bralette that I got. It is so nice again, so soft and cute. It is cute. It is fun to wear around the house. I've even worn it to the gym. So if you're still settling for uncomfortable bras or underwear that don't last, you are overdue for a skims upgrade. We do not upgrade our underwear enough. So trust me, it is time for you to upgrade to Skims. Skims is just that girl in your top drawer. Shop my favorite bras and underwear@skims.com and after you place your order. So once you're all done, be sure to let them know we sent you. There's a little survey you can select podcast in the survey and then select our show in the dropdown menu that follows. Just lets them know that we are the ones that sent you to Skims. Lets them know that you are supporting them and our show and I would really greatly appreciate it. So once you're done, don't forget that step. But yeah, go shop Skims. You will not regret it. This message is sponsored by Greenlight. And in every single crime we cover, money is an invisible thread. Sometimes the motive, the trigger, or even the desperation that pushes someone over the edge can be money. Financial stress can turn ordinary people into criminals. And a lack of financial literacy makes victims more vulnerable. And that's why teaching kids about money isn't just smart, it's essential.

B (30:13)

Greenlight is a debit card and money app for families. It's a safe way to teach kids and teens about money, preparing them for bigger financial decisions later. I've talked about this a lot when we do this ad. It's really important these days to teach kids the importance of money. What a dollar means, and green light is exactly that. It's. It teaches them what money means, how to spend it, what it means to spend it, what money means, making money means it's really important. I am a big fan of green light. I think it's great. Kids and teens learn how to save, invest and build money confident skills that can make all the difference in their financial future. My family has actually used this for my siblings and they love it. Start your risk free green light trial today@greenlight.com husband that's greenlight.com husband to get started greenlight.com husband now another year and.

A (31:07)

A half passes as they try to iron out the details, come to an agreement with international officials. And then finally, in September 2019, Cornwell receives word and he tells the family there's good news and bad news. Bad news is Nicaragua refuses to extradite him.

B (31:25)

Oh.

A (31:25)

Good news is they're gonna press charges on him down there.

B (31:31)

Why? What? Why countries? It doesn't make sense. Like, who cares at that point they.

A (31:37)

Said, we'll just charge him here and put him in prison here.

B (31:39)

Yeah, but how much can you trust that? I mean, maybe they will. And also, I think I'd rather be in prison in America than Nicaragua or like in other countries. I've heard some of the other countries, prisons are pretty, pretty scary.

A (31:55)

Well, the courts and laws work a bit differently there, as you might imagine. For example, there's no jury, it's just a judge. And they aren't charging him with second degree murder. Instead, with something we don't even have here in the us Femicide, the murder of a woman with whom the perpetrator specifically had a relationship with. So domestic relationship.

B (32:16)

So we kind of have. Okay.

A (32:17)

And unlike in the us, Orlando will not be required to enter a plea of guilty or not guilty. The hardest part was that the American prosecutors would have no say in this trial. However, they did allow them to participate. Eight days before the trial began, the DA's office was asked to assist the prosecutors in Nicaragua and help facilitate the testimony for the witnesses back in the United States through the use of video conferencing, which meant Haley's friends and family would testify on behalf of her. So on October 1, 2019, Orlando's trial began. The prosecution made the case that Haley had entered Orlando's home willingly on the morning of March 8, 2018. Haley likely told Orlando she wasn't looking for anything serious. And that sent Orlando into a rage when she went to sleep that night. They believe Orlando strangled her to death because if he couldn't have her, no one could. Which, by the way, would make this first degree murder. The first person to take this stand for the prosecution is Haley's mother, Karen, followed by 17 other witnesses, many of whom testify about Orlando's jealousy that he showed in the United States his obsession with Haley. They also spoke about the incident where he slit her tires, showed video footage of him entering his apartment with Haley, but her never leaving. So you can clearly see how important it was that the judge got to hear from these witnesses who knew Haley and Orlando back in the US because so much of this was pretty circumstantial. But of course, the defense had their own version of events. They argued that Orlando had no recollection of the events. He woke up, he found Haley dead on his bed and had no idea how it had happened. And that's because Orlando was strongly under the influence of alcohol and was temporarily insane at the time, according to his.

B (34:06)

Offense defense team, by the way, just temporarily insane, just for like a moment or two when she died. And then, then he's back to normal.

A (34:14)

He's like, now I got to clean this up.

B (34:16)

What? I'm going to start using that. Sorry, I'm sorry I did that. I was just Temporarily insane.

A (34:21)

They say Orlando has no history of violence, and this probably was provoked by Haley. So they blame Haley's death, murder, sick on Haley. However, the defense only called one witness to testify on Orlando's behalf, and it was a psychiatrist. The doctor noted that Orlando had tried to die by suicide twice after the murder. They also mentioned he suffered from epileptic incidents. But on the other hand, they said they couldn't verify what Orlando's state of mind was during the murder, whether or not it was true. He had actually blacked out from drinking. He was temporarily insane. They said it didn't appear that there was anything wrong with Orlando's current mental state. So it almost seems like the defense's one and only witness almost helped the prosecution.

B (35:05)

Yeah.

A (35:05)

Then, after both sides rest, the judge did something we never see here in the United States. They let Haley's family give a final word. They're like, would you like to say anything?

B (35:17)

I feel like that, I guess.

A (35:19)

Testimonies for victim impact statement.

B (35:21)

Yeah. Yep.

A (35:22)

But this isn't a victim impact statement. This isn't sentencing. This is just interesting to trial. Basically, Karen says this, quote, hayley was a beautiful, intelligent and friendly girl. She was an aspiring nurse and had her whole life to look forward to. She was and still is my best friend. So thank you for listening and letting me speak on behalf of my daughter. After a small break, the judge came back with her verdict. With the verdict the same day. And during the judge's speech, she detested violence against women and said everyone deserved equal rights. And that Orlando disposed of Haley because she was a strong woman who had made a choice for herself. She ended it with the verdict. Guilty of femicide. Afterwards, the judge let the family say a few words to Orlando. And that's when Haley's father came forward and said, well, quote, I want to leave you with this. I saw an endearing photo of you and your mother hugging each other, and my heart breaks for her. It truly does. Because you stole from your own mother. And even though she has unconditional love for you, every time she hugs you now, she will get a glimpse of that monster within you. And she'll know that one day you might get out. Orlando said nothing in response, and two weeks later, he was given his sentence. 30 years in prison. This is the maximum punishment for femicide in Nicaragua. And while some might have hoped for life behind bars, the D. A in the case, Steve Cornwell, said it was more than we ever imagined he would get.

B (37:04)

Yeah.

A (37:04)

He told the press, we saw something we haven't seen before. And it was really two governments working together, law enforcement agencies working together instead of fighting each other. He says that alone is a pretty big win. As for Orlando, he continues to fight his charges. In February 2020, he was back in the courtroom to appeal his conviction.

B (37:24)

Get out of here, dude.

A (37:25)

His attorney argued that he was highly intoxicated at the time, or doubling down on the. He doesn't remember anything. And this time, they had another psychiatrist evaluation, and they were like, we want this psychiatrist, who, by the way, is seasoned in insanity defenses. Like, that's his expertise. The panel is like, yeah, we don't want to hear from him next. So they don't even let him come in. Orlando's team also said if he was tried in the US under second degree murder charges, as initially was said, you would have received a lighter sentence in 30 years. Now we know just because someone starts with second degree doesn't mean it doesn't get changed to first degree before trial. Oftentimes it happens once more. Evidence is brought to the table. They asked the court to reassess, and they were like, okay, we'll consider it. So the following month, they drag Haley's family back into the courtroom virtually to say why they believe he shouldn't get out. And Orlando's appeal was denied, which means his sentencing of 30 years stands. But that might not be the end. If he is released and steps foot on American soil, they said they will charge him again here. But no matter how many times Orlando stands trial and no matter how many countries work together, there's no bringing Hayley Anderson back. And that's the hardest part of all of this. It's a win that there was an example of countries working together, but at whose expense? Haley's.

B (38:54)

Yeah.

A (38:55)

This just shouldn't have happened in general. And that is the case of Haley Anderson.

B (39:00)

Ugh. Senseless murder. I will never understand murder. Killing someone in general, I will never, ever, ever understand. Not okay. It's just not okay to kill people. Not sure when. I don't know. Just not okay to kill people. End of story.

A (39:20)

You know, this could be a hot take, but I actually do believe there have been times in history where someone has blacked out while committing murder. I don't think this one of those times.

B (39:31)

No, it's complete. Liar. Get out of here.

A (39:34)

I think it's just. Well, I'm sure you dissociated from it afterwards.

B (39:38)

Yeah. Nope.

A (39:40)

But you knew what you were doing. All right, you guys, that is our case, and we will see you next time with another one. I love it.

B (39:47)

I hate it.

A (39:47)

Goodbye. Monday Sidekick. The AI agent that knows you and your business, thinks ahead and takes action.

B (40:03)

Task at anything seriously.

A (40:05)

Monday Sidekick AI you'll love to use. Start a free trial today on Monday.

B (40:10)

Com.