315. The Random Killing of Theresa Cha

Summary

Murder With My Husband

Episode 315: The Random Killing of Theresa Cha

Date: April 6, 2026
Hosts: Peyton and Garrett Moreland

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the tragic, random killing of Theresa Hawk Yunch Cha, a groundbreaking Korean American artist and author, just days after publishing her first acclaimed book in 1982 New York City. Peyton narrates Theresa's extraordinary journey, her promising future, and the investigation that followed her untimely death, while Garrett reacts in real time, often voicing the audience's feelings of shock and frustration. The episode delves into the challenges of prosecuting the case, the impact of Theresa’s loss, and the lasting legal and emotional consequences.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Who Was Theresa Cha? (05:00–14:00)

• Born in Busan, South Korea, 1951, during the Korean War.
• Immigrated to Hawaii, then San Francisco, with her family at age 12.
• Theresa quickly adapted to life in the US, learned English and French, and cultivated her love for literature and art—a family passion.
• Studied at UC Berkeley (majored in literature and visual arts; earned BA and MA).
• Became involved in grassroots sociopolitical change, focusing on human rights and diversity, but preferred self-expression through art and writing, not protest.
• Moved to New York City in 1980 with husband Richard Barnes, an aspiring photographer. Worked several jobs, including at Tanam Press and the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
• Published her innovative, genre-defying book Dictée in late 1982.
• "Many believed Teresa had a voice that only comes around once in a generation, that she had the potential to go down in history next to names like Ernest Hemingway and Virginia Woolf." (Peyton, 05:32)

2. The Day of the Crime (17:53–22:44)

• November 5, 1982: Theresa leaves the Met at 3:00pm, stops by a gallery for a future show, and heads toward the Puck Building to meet Richard.
• Seen last in a distinctive red beret, gloves, and carrying a red shopping bag from the Met.
• Fails to meet Richard as planned; he checks with friends and becomes concerned but isn't initially alarmed due to the lack of immediate communication tools in the '80s.
  • “In the 80s, before... communication on demand... it was probably a lot more normal to just not hear from someone and be like, yeah, I’ll hear from them when I see them next.” (Peyton, 20:09)
• By late evening, Richard realizes something is truly wrong.

3. Discovery and Investigation (22:44–31:17)

• Body found at 7:15pm on Elizabeth Street—Asian, late 20s to early 30s, no ID, dubbed “Asian Jane Doe”. Evidence of a brutal assault and strangulation.
• Signs she fought back; wedding ring and personal effects missing.
• Richard reports her missing around 2:00am; he identifies her via Polaroid at the police station.
  • “Richard sees the Polaroid and that’s when their Jane Doe is officially ID’d as Theresa.” (Peyton, 25:41)
• Richard is considered but quickly discounted as a suspect—timeline, alibi, and physical evidence don’t implicate him.
• Police search for her missing belongings, focus on the distinctive wedding ring (black stone with two red stones).

4. Break in the Case & Suspect Identified (31:31–39:17)

• Plumber Peter (employee at the Puck Building) tells police his brother-in-law/roommate, Joey Sanza (building security guard), acted suspiciously on the night of the murder:
  • Wore a woman’s ring matching Theresa’s, acted erratic, used his sister’s bathwater.
  • Was seen with a red Met bag like Theresa’s.
  • Skipped work and later stole from his own sister before fleeing.
• Timeline aligns: Joey had keys to the van at the crucial time, returned late, and had unexplained scratches and bruises—lied about their source.

Memorable Moment

• “He’s wearing a ring they had never seen before… a black stone with two red ones on either side.” (Peyton, 32:53)

5. The Pattern: Joey Sanza’s Criminal Past (39:17–44:49)

• Joey Sanza has a disturbing history of sexual assault and theft in Florida, targeting random victims, including elderly women and young women alike.
• Pattern of escalating violence; prior attempts to steal victims’ wedding rings mirror the evidence in Theresa's case.
  • “It almost feels like this unsaid thing… we can almost use our brains and logically tell the difference between someone who could be reformed and someone who couldn’t.” (Peyton, 42:25)
• Discussion of how repeat sexual offenders rarely reform, citing statistics and personal reactions.

Notable Quote

• “If you are going to be like this in a society, why are you allowed to live in this society?” (Garrett, 41:48)

6. Discovery of the Crime Scene (44:49–46:20)

• Theresa’s family visits the Puck building, notices construction columns labeled 7-10, 7-11, 7-12—eerily matching a dream her mother had about “three number sevens”.
• They find Theresa’s missing red beret, boot, and gloves with blood, overlooked by the initial search. Police now confirm the crime occurred there.

7. Arrest and Legal Proceedings (46:20–55:00)

• Joey is apprehended in Florida 6 months later, after another assault.
• When confronted with a photo of Teresa’s ring, his reaction confirms police suspicions.
• Legal complications:
  • First New York trial’s conviction thrown out due to the Molineux Rule—evidence of prior bad acts judged inadmissible.
    • Extended segment discussing the justice system, the logic and frustration behind such rules.
      • “That is—the might be the dumbest rule I’ve ever heard of.” (Garrett, 49:42)
  • Second trial also results in a mistrial.
  • Third trial (1987): Joey’s ex-girlfriend testifies; physical evidence (blood-typed boots) surfaces. Joey is convicted of second-degree murder and sexual assault.

8. Reflection and Legacy (55:00–56:46)

• After five years, Theresa’s family finally sees justice.
• Theresa’s book, Dictée, goes out of print but is later revived—becomes a cornerstone for Asian American and feminist studies.
  • “The ink spills thickest before it runs dry before it stops writing at all.” (Peyton quotes Dictée, 55:52)
• Hosts reflect on the ripple effect and sadness of random crimes, especially against someone so influential and full of promise.
  • “It just goes—the domino effect is never ending. And I hate that. I hate that.” (Garrett, 55:58)
  • “It’s just harder for our brains to fathom that someone can walk up to someone they don’t know and kill them…” (Peyton, 56:30)

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Key Timestamps & Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | Notable Points/Quotes | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------| | 05:00 | Introducing Theresa Cha | “Voice that only comes around once in a generation.” | | 14:00 | Life in NYC, struggles, publication of Dictée | The importance of her artistic voice | | 19:30 | The day she vanished | 1980s context—communication delays | | 22:44 | Discovery of the body | Initial investigation, Jane Doe identification | | 31:31 | Peter the Plumber tips off police | Joey Sanza emerges as suspect | | 39:17 | Joey’s criminal pattern revealed | “Get him out of here.” | | 44:46 | Family helps discover the real crime scene | The “three sevens” dream, finding Theresa’s items | | 46:20 | Arrest in Florida, legal hurdles | Frustrations with the justice system | | 49:21 | Molineux Rule discussion | Multiple mistrials, courtroom procedures | | 55:00 | Justice and legacy | Dictée’s posthumous influence, lasting impact | | 56:46 | Reflections on random crime | Emotional responses from hosts |

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Notable Quotes

• “What kind of impact would they have made on the world if their life had not been cut short?” – Peyton (04:59)
• “He’s wearing a ring they had never seen before… a black stone with two red ones on either side.” – Peyton (32:53)
• “If you are going to be like this in a society, why are you allowed to live in this society?” – Garrett (41:48)
• “The ink spills thickest before it runs dry before it stops writing at all.” – Peyton quoting Dictée (55:52)
• “It just goes—the domino effect is never ending. And I hate that. I hate that.” – Garrett (55:58)

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Tone & Final Thoughts

Peyton narrates with empathy and focus on the victim, highlighting how quick and devastating loss can be, especially for someone brimming with potential. Garrett provides honest, sometimes raw, reactions—channeling the listener’s disbelief and frustration, particularly regarding flaws in the justice system.

The episode is a sobering reflection on the randomness of violence, the hard work behind every artistic legacy, and the immense ripple effects of even one life cut short.

Transcript

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[Peyton Moreland]

Right. We're getting into an ad and it is Shopify. And I'm going to let Garrett take it away because he is probably Shopify's number one fan.

[Garrett Moreland]

I have been using Shopify before I was born. No, honestly, I've been using Shopify for seven years now. I want to say I've been using it for a long time. I feel like I'd consider myself a Shopify expert at this point. But we love Shopify. We still use Shopify. The amount of tools and features they have are amazing. For me, it's that it's super easy to use. If you want to sell anything online at all, Shopify is going to be the place to do this. You really need to check out Shopify. Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. See less cards go abandoned and more sales go with Shopify and their Shop Pay button. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com husband go to shopify.com husband that's shopify.com husband.

[Peyton Moreland]

You're listening to an Ono Media podcast. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.

[Garrett Moreland]

And I'm Garrett Moreland.

[Peyton Moreland]

And he's the husband.

[Garrett Moreland]

And I'm the husband. Welcome back. Thank you for being here. Happy Monday. Happy Tuesday, Happy Wednesday, Happy Thursday, Happy Friday. Depending on when you're watching.

[Peyton Moreland]

Oh, Saturday and Sunday are out.

[Garrett Moreland]

They could be watching on Saturday and Sunday, but I don't know. Happy Saturday. Happy Sunday. Thank you for supporting us. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching on Netflix. We love you all. We're here. We're ready to record. Ready to give you guys another case. And if you're watching on Netflix. I did buzz my head. My hair's gone. Actually, if you didn't see on Instagram, I streamed it live. Peyton buzzed my head. Yeah, she did a great job. It's already grown back.

[Peyton Moreland]

But, yeah, in case you're watching or listening for the first time, this is a true crime podcast. I love true crime. My husband Garrett, hates true crime. And so I come every single week and tell him a new true crime case. He has no idea what we're going to be talking about, so he's hearing it for the first time with you again. I love it and he hates it.

[Garrett Moreland]

All my reactions are genuine. I really have no idea what case she's telling me each week. I think there's maybe been twice where I've heard the case before.

[Peyton Moreland]

You must be pretty good at, like, you know, staying naive, thinking on your feet, because people think you lie about that.

[Garrett Moreland]

Really? Yeah. No, I have no. I have no idea what Kate's Peyton is telling me. And I think I've also just been doing this. We've been doing it together so long, I just. I don't know, like, secondhand nature at this point.

[Peyton Moreland]

You just hit flow state.

[Garrett Moreland]

I'm just pure flow state. Every time Peyton's talking, I'm just listening. I'm just eating it up.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, that's what we got. I guess I'll hop right into my 10 seconds while I buzz my head. I guess that's one thing if. Honestly, it feels good. Um, it's getting a little warmer. It feels good. Now I don't have to wake up, do anything to my hair. My hairline looks good. Hair transplant worked. Yeah. So maybe I'll buzz it again in a bit. Maybe I'll dye it a blonde or something. I don't know what I'm going to do. Bagel shop is getting so close. Thank you to everyone who's been supporting me, who's been messaging me. Yeah. Stay tuned on social media for any announcements there. Other than that, I don't know. Do we have anything?

[Peyton Moreland]

Oh, thanks for all the suggestions about Daisy.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, Daisy. That's what I was gonna say.

[Peyton Moreland]

No, I was just gonna say, so many people message us about, you know, their dogs having something similar or what we could do to help her or just maybe what's even going on. And so we did read them all, and thank you so much. I. If you are a owner of a pet that you love very much, you know how scary it can be when you don't know what's wrong because they can't tell you.

[Garrett Moreland]

So, yeah, it honestly scary. It's pretty scary. But that's what we got going. I feel like there was something else I wanted to tell you guys, but can't think of Anything else? We've just been working. I'm kind of waiting. I want. I'm wanting the warmer weather to come back. It's been a little colder this week. Yeah, I guess I'll end it there. And we will hop into this week's case.

[Peyton Moreland]

Our sources for this episode are oxygen.com yellreview.org evergreenreview.com medium.com eai.org the nation.com case law.blex.com casemind.com New York Homicide Season 1, Episode 7 and Florida Department of Law Enforcement and Low Key. I've kind of been on this New York Homicide show, so, yeah, kind of good if you want to go check it out. In every single one of these cases, no matter how young or old the victim is, there is always one question that kind of stays with me. That's what kind of impact would they have made on the world if their life had not been cut short? And whether that's a young college student studying to be a doctor or even a soon to be grandmother before she got a hold, her first grandchild. Every tragedy leaves a hole. But today's case left me with this overwhelming feeling that the world would genuinely look different if Teresa Cha were still in it. Now, Teresa was an up and coming author and artist in New York city in the 1980s. And many believed Teresa had a voice that only comes around once in a generation, that she had the potential to go down in history next to names like Ernest Hemingway and Virginia Woolf. But instead, Teresa's life was taken only days after publishing her first groundbreaking book. Her body was left in a parking lot.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, my gosh.

[Peyton Moreland]

And at first, she wasn't even identified by name, only as Jane Doe. And it was the kind of case that left everyone asking, who was Teresa Cha supposed to become? And how different would the world be now if this story that I'm about to tell you never took place? So let's now head to New York City, to the big apple in 1982.

[Garrett Moreland]

Side note, big fan of New York City. Something about it I love. If it was a different life, I'd live in New York City.

[Peyton Moreland]

Just the energy.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, I think I love that energy. I'm kind of a workaholic and so, like, something about it just gets me, gets me pumped up.

[Peyton Moreland]

Right. So this New York City 1980s is where Teresa Hawk Yunch Cha is living. Like most starving artists in this city, she's trying to make a name for herself. Or at least she was. But in October of that year, things were finally starting to look up. For Teresa, after many years of hustling and having a love hate relationship with New York, Teresa is finally fighting her stride in the big city. She has just published her book, and she's about to prove that she has a lot of talent to share with the world. But Teresa's journey to get to this point had not been easy. In fact, the entire 31 years of her life had been one challenge after another, which is actually kind of what makes her story so incredibly moving. See, backing up. Teresa wasn't originally born in the States. She was born in Busan, South Korea, in 1951, right in the midst of the Korean War. And then finally, around 1962, the family immigrated to the States with the help of the Catholic Church. And Teresa, along with her five siblings and parents, first settled in Hawaii when she was around 12, before eventually moving north to San Francisco. And Teresa had always been a bit shy, quiet and reserved back in Korea. But in the States, she really started to come out of her shell and thrive. Teresa not only learned English, but French as well. And through these three languages, Teresa really learned how to express herself. So after high school, she actually chose to pursue the dreams her parents never got to themselves. With her mother, an aspiring writer, and her father, an aspiring painter, Teresa fell in love with both. And while her parents were professional teachers of their crafts, Teresa went out and actually lived them. Now, Teresa's mother was incredibly supportive of those pursuits, but her father, not so much. He understood how hard it was to try and make a living through art, but nonetheless, Teresa followed her heart. And after a brief stint at the University of San Francisco, she transferred to UC Berkeley, where she studied for two bachelor's and a master's degree. Over the years in literature and visual arts, she fell into a tight knit group of artists and poets, which was actually how she found her way to her future husband, Richard Barnes. They met in a Berkeley drawing class. But despite living the all American life, Teresa never lost sight of where she came from. UC Berkeley was a breeding ground for many grassroots efforts, people who were trying to bring more global attention to the importance of human rights and diversity. And Teresa, as one of the few Asian American students on campus, found purpose and pride in supporting this sociopolitical change. But her preferred form of self expression was never through protest, as you might guess. It was through her writing and her art. Though after graduating in 1978, Teresa was finally ready for her next adventure. She wanted to move out of the Bay Area and follow many of her friends, as well as her boyfriend, Richard, who was an aspiring Photographer at the time to New York City. And it was there in the 1980s that Teresa felt her dreams were within reach.

[Garrett Moreland]

I feel like anything in that industry, like photography, videography, trying to be a producer, actor, anything in art is extremely difficult.

[Peyton Moreland]

Oh, so hard.

[Garrett Moreland]

I mean like trying to become a famous actor, trying to become a like renown or known producer, videographer, whatever it is, it's a grind.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah, especially in somewhere as big as New York.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, like New York City, 100%.

[Peyton Moreland]

So she was surrounded by a progressive, like minded community and Teresa felt like she could stay true to her work in New York. But life in 1980s New York wasn't exactly glamorous, especially for starving artists who were trying to find their way. The crime rate at this point was high, financial opportunities were low, and yet there were a lot of construction projects completely changing the landscape of the city, some of them under the purview of organized crime, which had a stronghold over New York at the time. Still, it was this vast and loose lifestyle that drew Teresa and Richard in. And when Teresa arrived in New York In August of 1980, she got a job working as an editor and a writer for the Tanam Press. And then by 1981, she began teaching a video art class at Elizabeth Sutton College while also working in the design department at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. So it's a lot of work. Again, like you said, she's grinding. But Teresa never let it slow her down and she didn't let it get in the way of her relationship with Richard either. In May of 1982, they finally tied the knot. But after two years in New York, Teresa had kind of formed this love hate relationship with the city. She wrote how having to sacrifice her own ethics and morals to survive in New York was, quote, in all honesty, disgusting. Though I wonder if Teresa felt like that was starting to change or at least pay off by the fall of 1982. So by late October, after these long years in New York, Teresa was finally catching her big break. The publishing company she used to work for agreed to publish the book that Teresa had spent years working on. It was called Dictay. It was a genre bending collection of poems and photography collages that tell the story of different women, both fictional and real. From the Greek goddesses Persephone and Demeter, to Joan of Arc, to a Korean revolutionary named Yu Gwon sun, to Theresa's own mother and even herself. Needless to say, the book was niche and edgy and had already received plenty of buzz even before its publishing date. The themes focused on everything from finding a voice to patriotism to exile and identity. There was one later write up I found from January of 1996 that really contextualized the book for me. It said the book enlarges the notion of what a book even is because it is forming as we watch, listen, read, because it is fragile, fierce and indelible. Now, of course, Teresa knew it would take some time even if the book took off before she could eventually quit her day job and become an author. Though she was excited nonetheless, it was absolutely worth celebrating. So on the morning of November 5, 1982, 31 year old Teresa kissed her husband Richard goodbye at their apartment on 247 Elizabeth street in Soho. She went to work for what she believed would be just another day at the Metropolitan Museum of Art on the Upper east side. Now, meanwhile, Richard spent the day working on the project that he was getting paid for photographing the renovations on the Puck building in Lower Manhattan just a block or two from their apartment. And the two had plans to meet up later after work when Teresa was done with her shift. I don't know about you, but I like keeping my money where I can see it. And unfortunately traditional big wireless carriers also seem to like keeping my money too. And after years of overpaying for wireless, I finally got fed up with crazy high wireless bills, bogus fees and free perks that actually cost more in the long run. And I switched to Mint Mobile. And honestly, it was kind of crazy how Mint Mobile you're getting the same thing, if not better for a better price. So stop overpaying for wireless just because that's how it's always been. Mint exists purely to fix that. Mint Mobile is here to rescue you with premium wireless plans starting at 15 bucks a month. And you can bring your own phone and number, activate with ESIM in minutes and start saving immediately. I use this and you should too

[Garrett Moreland]

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[Peyton Moreland]

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[Garrett Moreland]

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[Peyton Moreland]

After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you guys. Please don't skip this step. Select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the dropdown menu that follows. Again, this is after you've placed your order, select our show. It's a great way to support the podcast. And yeah, go check out skims. So she told Richard, okay, after work I'll just come to your office at the Puck Building, she tells him. But first I I do need to run an errand. So after leaving the Met around 3pm, Teresa goes to Lower Manhattan, close to the Puck Building, to meet up with a gallery owner named Kenji Fujita. Now, they spoke a bit about an upcoming show that she was having, but Kenji said she left sometime before it got dark. So sometime before 5pm, Teresa walked out of the gallery onto the New York City streets in a red beret, gloves and a leather coat, carrying a red shopping bag from the Met. And she headed in the direction of the Puck Building, obviously ready to meet up with her husband for a celebratory drink and dinner. So this should have only been a 15 minute walk. But 5pm came and went and Richard said she never showed up. So he did wait a bit and eventually figured, okay, maybe I just missed her. Maybe something came up. So he decides to head back to their apartment, only Teresa wasn't there either. So he called a few of their friends to see if anyone had heard from or saw Teresa, but he had no luck.

[Garrett Moreland]

That's like my worst nightmare. Like just thinking your spouse or significant other, someone you love is should be home in like 10, 15 minutes. And whether they got in a car crash. Whether they got kidneys is something tragic.

[Peyton Moreland]

It's like, okay, they're an adult, so maybe they're just talking. Or like, you're not sitting here going, worst case scenario, but you're also nervous.

[Garrett Moreland]

I feel like I go, worst case scenario.

[Peyton Moreland]

I also think it's important to remember that nowadays, if something like, if plans change, we expect someone to get a hold of us right away. Like a text, even a call.

[Garrett Moreland]

But it's a good point.

[Peyton Moreland]

In the 80s, before, like, having someone on demand, their communication on demand, if you were, like, having to find a phone and make sure the other person was near the phone you were calling, it was probably a lot more normal to just not hear from someone and be like, yeah, I'll hear from them when I see them next. Something must have came up.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's such an interesting concept because obviously we have different age ranges of all over that. Listen to the podcast. But, yeah, I guess I grew up in a time where. Yeah. I mean, around high school, everyone. I mean, not everyone. People started getting phones, you know, And, Yeah. You. You just told people, like, hey, I'm late. Hey, this is what's happening. And now it's just. It's what you expect.

[Peyton Moreland]

But think, like, in elementary school, you make plans with your friend that day. Like, let's play. Play.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

And then you call after school, but their parents already had plans, and so they picked them up and left the house. And you're calling their phone. You're not thinking, oh, my gosh, my little friend got kidnapped. You're thinking, oh, they're not home. I'll ask her tomorrow.

[Garrett Moreland]

Even not having, like, a home phone, like, we don't have a home phone, but I grew up with a home phone.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah.

[Garrett Moreland]

Just. It's crazy. Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

Still remember my number.

[Garrett Moreland]

I do, too, actually.

[Peyton Moreland]

Had to tell all my friends.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

So Richard is like, she's obviously not here. She probably got caught up. So I'm just gonna go out and get drinks, and she'll probably be back later at the house. It's the 80s, there's no cell phones. It's frustrating, but this isn't enough to alarm him yet. However, when Richard got home later that night and Teresa still wasn't home, that's when he panicked.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

Little did he know, there was a crime scene already under way only a few blocks away from their apartment. So let me rewind the clock just a little bit. But this same day, around 7:15pm that night, while he's getting drinks with his friends at the Bar, hoping that Teresa will be home when he gets there. Someone calls the police to say that they had just. Just found the body of a woman lying in a parking lot on Elizabeth street in Soho. Now, when investigators arrive, they see that her pants and her underwear are pulled down around her knees.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, my gosh.

[Peyton Moreland]

Her scarf and belt are wrapped around her neck, and she's missing a shoe. She appears to have been beaten on the back of the head.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, my God.

[Peyton Moreland]

By what they're presuming to be a baseball bat.

[Garrett Moreland]

Holy.

[Peyton Moreland]

But one thing is for certain. This woman is no longer alive. So police categorize this as a dump job, meaning somebody left the body here, but the crime appears to have taken place somewhere else. And they also can't find this woman's identification. All they can tell is that she's late 20s to early 30s, and she's Asian, which is why they give her the name Asian Jane Doe. But there's something else they know about her. It looks like she fought back because her hands do have some injuries, including one on her ring finger, which makes police think that jewelry had probably been stolen. And at the same time, the medical examiner is coming to some of their own conclusions, like the fact that this Jane Doe was killed within just a few hours of her body being found and that while she had injuries to her head, her actual cause of death was likely strangulation.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, man.

[Peyton Moreland]

Consistent with the scarf and belt that was found around her neck. Now, police have no idea what they are in for at this point. With no id they don't know if this woman is even from New York or if she's just a tourist who's visiting. They're thinking, this is going to be a tough one to crack. We're going to need to go through fingerprint databases, probably comb through tons of dental records, which is a daunting task in New York City and will only bring results if she lives there. Though after a few hours, it becomes clear that police actually won't need to do any of that, because around 2:00am that night, Richard Barnes arrives at the police station near his apartment and says, gosh, I just.

[Garrett Moreland]

That is so sickening to go to the police station. And then they have to look at you and go, we just found a

[Peyton Moreland]

body near your apartment.

[Garrett Moreland]

We just found her body. Like, we found your wife's dead body.

[Peyton Moreland]

So he shows up to the station at 2am and says, hey, I'm looking for my missing wife. Richard tells the police about his day. He's like, we were. I was supposed to meet up with Teresa at the Puck building. We were supposed to go to dinner together, but she never showed. He thought that she had just gotten caught up at work. She couldn't get a hold of him, so he went and got some drinks with friends. But when he returned home later and she still wasn't there, well, now he is here at the police station. So they ask Richard if he remembers what his wife was wearing when she had left the house that morning. And then they actually show him a Polaroid of the body they had found that night from the crime scene.

[Garrett Moreland]

No, like I can't. I. I mean, I guess you can

[Peyton Moreland]

try to, try to quickest way, but

[Garrett Moreland]

that would just be absolutely horrific.

[Peyton Moreland]

Richard sees the Polaroid and that's when their Jane doe is officially ID'd as Theresa at 6:00am that morning. Now, November 6th, Richard has to make the worst phone call of his life. He dials Teresa's brother John and tells him, hey, your sister has been found murdered in cold blood. But just because Richard reported Teresa missing doesn't necessarily mean he's off police's radar. As we know, one of the first people police try to eliminate is a spouse or someone close to the victim. And as they dig a bit, they find that Richard and Teresa were having some ups and downs, mostly due to the financial strains of their chosen careers. There were even a few times where they broke up completely over it, but they always made up and got back together again. They also found it a bit strange that Richard would have gone out with friends rather than just wait at home or even go to his wife's workplace to see if she was still there. But ultimately, there's really not a whole lot that stands out about Richard. For starters, things were starting to look up for the couple again, both professionally and financially. Richard told the police how Teresa had just published her first book a few days ago and it seemed like it was going to be a big one. It was really going to help her career. He doesn't have any defensive marks or wounds on his hands that would indicate that he had been in a violent struggle recently. Plus, his account seemed to line up with what other detectives are finding, that Teresa was seen at work that afternoon and left around three. And then she was confirmed to be at that gallery meeting Kenji afterwards before leaving sometime between 4:30 and 5. From there, she was on her way to the Puck building to meet Richard and then never showed. So they're wondering, was she intercepted by someone? Did she take an unusual path? Had she been stalked? There's a lot of questions, including A new one that Richard actually brings to the detective's attention. Teresa was missing some personal items when her body was found that day. The you remember she was wearing a red beret and gloves and carrying a red bag from the Met, but those items weren't found at the crime scene. And then there's also the matter of the missing wedding ring. Why would a husband steal his own wife's ring if he killed her? So after a day or so, Richard wasn't looking good as a suspect in this case. And police hadn't necessarily ruled him out entirely. But they did use the tip he gave them about Teresa's missing clothing. And with that, they went looking for the site of Teresa's attack, hoping it would be nearby, hoping to find more clues. Now, police feel confident that Teresa wasn't murdered in the parking lot she was found in for two good reasons. One, there was no physical evidence, blood spatter or signs of a scuffle anywhere in the parking lot. And two, the timing of Teresa's death had to have been sometime between 4:30 and 7:15pm which means a lot of people were out on the streets of New York walking.

[Garrett Moreland]

I was gonna say that seems like a time that people don't get murdered, right? I mean, like it was midnight or

[Peyton Moreland]

2am yeah, you're in a parking lot that's it's open. Like, it's not a closed off parking lot would have been really hard to pull off a murder in that busy of an area. So the next natural place for them to look is the spot that Teresa was obviously walking towards the Puck building to meet her husband. Now, remember, Richard was photographing the renovations the building was undergoing at the time, which meant a lot of construction and presumably not a ton of people walking around inside the building. So a day or so later, search teams are actually dispatched to the Puck building along with canine units. And shockingly, one of the dogs does pick up a scent in a basement area. And from there, it leads them to the pump room, where the dog starts having an even bigger reaction, exactly how it is supposed to when it's confirming a scent. But the investigators don't find anything of note in this basement. Like, yes, this is where she was heading, but there's no evidence. Must have been a false alarm. So instead, they decide to pursue another angle. They begin looking for the missing ring that was taken from Teresa's finger. So detectives fan out all across the city, going to pawn shops and side hustlers on the street looking for her ring, thinking whoever took it was most likely Going to sell it. And it's a pretty unique piece of jewelry. It's a silver band with a black stone between two red ones.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

Was the opposite of Richard's, which had a red stone with two small black ones. It was custom made. It should be easy to spot. Plus they actually have a photo of the ring, which should have helped too. But unfortunately, after visiting place after place, police find nothing of note. However, on Monday, November 8, a lot of the workers who had been off for the weekend start returning to the Puck building. And so the police show up and begin asking them questions to see, hey, did you see her? Like, did she ever actually make it to the building? Did you see anything unusual that night? Anything even around the building? And that's when this plumber named Peter tells police.

[Garrett Moreland]

Peter the plumber, I think I have

[Peyton Moreland]

something you're gonna want to hear. And he says it's not gonna be an easy thing for Peter to do, but it's the right thing for him to do because he tells police he thinks he knows who killed Teresa.

[Garrett Moreland]

What?

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah, he says it's his roommate slash brother in law.

[Garrett Moreland]

No way.

[Peyton Moreland]

So this is what Peter the plumber tells the detectives. Look, I live in Brooklyn with my wife and her 31 year old brother and you know, this guy's been having a hard time lately. He's been in and out of jail, so I helped him get a job here. And he was recently promoted to a security guard. But he says Friday night his brother in law came home acting really weird. His name is Joey Sanza. And when he got back to the apartment, Joey started banging on the door while the wife was in the bath, saying, hey, can I use your bath water before you drain it? Now this is Joey's sister Kathy. So it's a little weird to want to use anyone's bath water, let alone your own sisters, but he was kind of a strange guy to begin with. They kind of just brush it off. However, there's something else off about Joey that night. According to Peter, he's wearing a ring they had never seen before. And apparently Kathy, his sister, is even said something to him about it, that, hey, that ring looks kind of feminine. And when police get the details from both Peter and his wife Kathy, they both described the ring the same way. It was a black stone with two red ones on either side.

[Garrett Moreland]

How does it work? And maybe you don't know the answer answer to this, but I'm sure one of the listeners will. And I assume I know what the answer is. Yeah, I mean, if you if something is stolen, it turned into a pawn shop, they buy it. If the police come in before that's resold to somebody else, I'm pretty sure the pawn shop has to give it up and they just lose the money, correct?

[Peyton Moreland]

I think so. Because I think it's like crime scene evidence.

[Garrett Moreland]

I wonder how often that happens at

[Peyton Moreland]

like pawn shop or if you like need a warrant for it.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, I don't know. I.

[Peyton Moreland]

Or if you just have to give it to police.

[Garrett Moreland]

I would feel like you probably have to give it to police.

[Peyton Moreland]

I feel like most people would just give it to police because probably they're

[Garrett Moreland]

like, I don't want to.

[Peyton Moreland]

They're like, this was used in a murder. You're really going to be like, it

[Garrett Moreland]

would just like imagine you pay like two grand or something for something and

[Peyton Moreland]

then you don't get to resell it.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah. You just don't get it.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah. Maybe they buy it.

[Garrett Moreland]

I don't think so. Please. Here you go.

[Peyton Moreland]

They call their boss. Hey, bud, I'm going to need you to make some room in the budget.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's a thousand bucks. I think they just have to give it to you.

[Peyton Moreland]

Okay.

[Garrett Moreland]

Crazy.

[Peyton Moreland]

All right, you guys. It is way day at Wayfair. From April 25th through the 27th, you can score the best deals in home, like up to 80% off with free shipping on everything. I love Wayfair. I think they have honestly a billion options. It feels like something for everyone and the quality is great. I have not had a bad experience with Wayfair and we have used it quite a bit.

[Garrett Moreland]

We have a ton of items in our house from Wayfair. We like paints that. We've used it a lot. We've done a bunch of decorating with it. Honestly, the rugs, we have a ton of rugs. We have a ton of Halloween decorations every year. There's so many different things.

[Peyton Moreland]

We have Wayfair, Wayfair. You got just what I need.

[Garrett Moreland]

Something I also really love about Wayfair is the fast shipping. I love that. I can see like when things are in stock and when they'll ship and when they'll get here. Especially with any furniture items or rugs. That is a must have way is the sale to shop the best deals in home or we're talking about up to 80% off with fast and free shipping on everything. Head to Wayfair.com April 25th through the 27th to shop Wayday. That's W A Y-F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every Home.

[DSW Advertiser]

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[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah.

[DSW Advertiser]

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[Peyton Moreland]

So this is what he's telling police. Like, yeah, that's the same ring. This is huge for police, right? They go to the place where she was supposedly going and a guy comes forward saying, hey, my brother in law is the security guard. He was acting weird and he had this ring and it ends up being the same description. So police look deeper into Joey and they find a couple other details that raise red flags. Like the fact that Joey was seen carrying around a red met bag that Friday. Again, this is just like the one Teresa was missing when her body was found. And also that he was supposed to go to work the following day on Saturday, but he no showed, nor did he come back to the apartment later that weekend to sleep. But what he did do was steal about a thousand dollars worth of jewelry and belongings from his sister and brother in law and then took off. So obviously when Peter goes to work on Monday and detectives are there saying, hey, a girl went missing on her way here and then turned up dead in a parking lot, he's like, yeah, so my brother in law who actually just stole from me and my wife was here that night, was acting weird and has taken off and is basically on the run. Plus, the timeline of Joey's day that past Friday starts to kind of plug a lot of holes. Joey's boss says that around 3pm that day, he gave Joey the keys to a van. It was being used in the renovation project. And he told Joey he, he wanted him to help clean out the van before his shift ended. So apparently he did. And then at 5pm, Joey punched out. And this is the exact same time that Teresa was heading to the building expecting to meet her husband. But at 5:45pm, Joey actually came back to the building and returned the keys to the manager. This was 45 minutes of Joey clocking out, but then coming back that he's not accounted for.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's just interesting that you don't think of that. Like he doesn't think of that when he's about ready to commit this crime. You know what I'm saying?

[Peyton Moreland]

Maybe he didn't know that Teresa was headed to the Puck building, and so he didn't even think that police would ever tie her back to this building if he dumped her body somewhere else.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, maybe that's true.

[Peyton Moreland]

You know what I mean? The only reason police even went to the Puck building in the first place is they knew this was her final destination. This is where she was heading.

[Garrett Moreland]

Maybe it was just how it happened.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah, this is about 45 minutes of Joey's time that's unaccounted for. Plenty of time for him to do something. Teresa put her body in the van, take her around the corner, and then leave her in the parking lot. Oh, and even more damning, a witness said the following day they spoke to Joey, who noticed that he had scratches and bruises on his arms. And you know what? Joey told this witness? That he had gotten into a fight with an unhoused person that night before in the building and that he hit him on the head with his night stick and injured him badly. He said he actually thought he killed the guy. So an ambulance was called to take him to the hospital. But when police follow up with this whole story about, you know, Joey, who's their prime suspect, how to get these scratches. It's an entire lie. There was no ambulance dispatched the area that night.

[Garrett Moreland]

Things to lie about. Do you not think the police know they can figure out where the ambulance

[Peyton Moreland]

is going to lie about almost killing someone as your cover?

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, my gosh. That's. What an idiot.

[Peyton Moreland]

None of this is looking good for Joey Sanza, especially the fact that he's now on the run. His brother in law and sister, who he lives with are like completely turned against him. They're like, yep, he had the ring, he's a thief. Here you go. But when police look into his record, they find some terrifying details that might actually hint a motive. Turns out Joey has an extensive rap sheet, including a series of sexual assaults from the time that he had spent living in Florida. One was a 67 year old woman.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh my gosh.

[Peyton Moreland]

Who he sexually assaulted after breaking into her apartment randomly at 4am I just.

[Garrett Moreland]

I don't understand. And we, we cover so many cases like this. They have these insane. I almost said resumes, these insane rap sheets, these. This past of just criminal offense after criminal offense, and they're just walking around doing whatever they want also. I don't understand.

[Peyton Moreland]

I don't know where this is coming from, but like, if the sexual assault on file is that at 4am he broke into a random person's house. Like, yes, a random victim that feels one tiny step away from murder to me, 100%. Like, you don't know this person. You weren't in an opportunity with this person there. You went out of your way to not only break into a home, which is hard enough, but break into a home to rape someone.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh man.

[Peyton Moreland]

I just like, that is so much. It is so close to just murdering someone.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's just horrible because it's like, saw that one coming. Like, saw this coming.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah. So this 67 year old woman, when she talks to police, she goes, the guy was actually polite and claimed that he had asked her if he could, quote, make love to her. And then he stole a purse and two jewelry boxes from her home. And then again, this is a pattern because another Victim was a 21 year old female whose apartment he broke into between 9:30 and 10:00pm one night. So she also told police that he was oddly polite, said he wanted to make love to her while he held a gun to her head. And then.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh my. What is happening right now?

[Peyton Moreland]

We're still going. The third victim, he attacked while she was taking out her trash in Broad Daylight at 1:30pm dude, you're just, you know what?

[Garrett Moreland]

A lot of, you know my stance on this and Peyton and I disagree on different things, but get him out of here. Get. Get him out of here. It's just, it's ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. If you are going to be like this in a society, why are you allowed to live in this society? Why? Oh, he's going to be reformed. Yeah, yeah, he was way reformed. Super reformed.

[Peyton Moreland]

I don't know, like three times.

[Garrett Moreland]

Like, come on, how many mistakes do. Like how many times until it's like, okay, fine, they're not going to change.

[Peyton Moreland]

And it almost.

[Garrett Moreland]

How many chances do we need to give somebody?

[Peyton Moreland]

It almost feels like this unsaid thing of like where we can almost use our brains and logically tell the difference between someone who could be reformed and someone who couldn't. Like, I don't know, it's like unsaid. There's no black and white. There's no boundaries. But it's almost like you can look at someone and be like zero chance. This guy who broke into three random women and. And sexually assaulted them just randomly for fun. I don't know. That feels again like escalation. This feels like on paper this guy is going to escalate to murder.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's insane. It's. It blows my mind. And There's a lot more I can say about it, but I'm. Hold it in. Hold it in.

[Peyton Moreland]

Okay. So this victim, the third one that he attacked in broad daylight while she was taking her trash out.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

He actually tried to take her wedding ring. She fought him and won. So the whole wedding ring thing, he's already done it with one or attempted to. And then, as we know, this woman who he's the number one suspect in Teresa, her wedding ring was missing. So after learning about Joey's past, obviously police are like, we have our guy. I mean, like, how do you.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

Anyways, the only thing that's really missing at this point is the scene where the crime occurred. This is something that wasn't discovered until a month later. This was when Teresa's family came to town. So around December, Teresa's father, James, and her brother John came to New York to speak with detectives in person. And believing that Teresa probably died in the Puck building, they actually decided they wanted to just go look around for themselves. So they go down to the basement, and they're looking around when they notice that this one part of the building has a bunch of columns, and they're each marked with a number. 7, 10, 7, 11, 7, 12. Now, this strikes John as odd because he remembers something his mother said to him right after Teresa died. Again, this is all Teresa's family. Teresa's mother had said to her son John, Teresa's brother, that Teresa had came to her in a dream and said to her mother, I am here. And then showed her three number sevens. So, like, seven, seven, seven.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

Obviously, the mom didn't. She didn't feel like she'd had some premonition. She was just like, what an odd thing for my daughter to have been murdered. And then I just so visually saw her in a dream, and she's telling me where she is. And so when they go to this building and they see these columns. 7, 10, 7, 11, 7, 12. John is immediately like, wait, is this weird that this is where we, like, we believe that she was murdered and now there's these three sevens? It had just been something that stuck with the family, but now was just eerie to John, especially when a few moments later, John and James are walking through this construction area and look down and literally see Teresa's red beret lying on the basement floor. There was blood caked all around it, and her missing boot and gloves were found lying not too far away. So this happened to just be one section of a room that was under construction that police seemed to miss. So Teresa's family obviously calls the police and like, hey, did you actually search this building? Because we just found like the rest of her items. And after processing this new additional crime scene, they feel they have more than enough to move in on Joey because they now believe they found the room where the crime happened. Problem is, they still don't know where he is. Not until six months later. Why do you think they find him six months later in Florida.

[Garrett Moreland]

He sexually assaulted somebody else.

[Peyton Moreland]

He's in Florida, six months later, gets caught for another sexual assault.

[Garrett Moreland]

Here's the thing is that I, I don't know how, like, much I need to stress how often this happens. Yeah, like this is not some, like, oh, this is just like a one off. No, this happens so much in a

[Peyton Moreland]

lot of the cases.

[Garrett Moreland]

So much.

[Peyton Moreland]

Which is why I'm saying it's like an unsaid said thing of like, on this type of perpetrator who, who chooses random victims to sexually assault and beat and hurt and steal from. How many times can you see the pattern before it's like, hey, this specific perpetrator has a harder time being reformed than other criminals. I mean, I'm pretty sure statistically sexual assault is the hardest crime to reform as far as, like, results of getting out of prison. It is the most reoccurred crime from a previous offender. But it's just like, oh my gosh, this specific type of pattern we see over and over and over again where it finally escalates to murder.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah. It's just. And I get it, I know you can't. It's. It's hard knowing something could be prevented. Granted, you could say that about anything.

[Peyton Moreland]

Well, also, you can't just look at someone and be like, we're guessing that in the future. That's so hard to.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, yeah, no, I get it. But.

[Peyton Moreland]

But also get him out of here. You're a dangerous society.

[Garrett Moreland]

I mean, we have a society, we have rules we all follow. So you can't follow them. Then goodbye.

[Peyton Moreland]

So he's picked up. And when the police in Florida hear that he's actually a suspect in a murder up in New York City and he's been on the run and they've been looking for him, they let the New York detectives know. They fly down in March of 1983 with the one thing they believe might trip up Joey. And it was a picture of the ring he stole from Teresa. And the moment the police show it to him, he gets all wide eyed and he's like, he kind of like, how did you get that like, how do you even know about this? And then he whispers something to his attorney, and they, like, shut down the interview. He doesn't say anything else. So police are like, just based on his reaction, he knew this ring. Like, that was enough for us to know that he's our guy. So they went back to New York to build their case. And Joey Sanza confessed to several accounts of sexual assault back in Florida. And then he was later convicted of 12 counts total.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, my gosh.

[Peyton Moreland]

And sentenced to prison for those crimes in Florida. And meanwhile, Teresa's case is getting ready to go to trial in New York. And In October of 1984, Joey was brought to a New York courtroom for the murder of Teresa Chaos. And while he was convicted, that ruling was actually eventually thrown out by the New York Supreme Court due to, quote, inadmissible evidence. They claimed that the prosecution had defied the Molyneux Rule.

[Garrett Moreland]

Wait, so he's didn't get. Wait, he's free because of what?

[Peyton Moreland]

This rule basically says you can't show evidence of a defendant's prior crime to show their propensity for committing the one they're on trial for. And if you've seen this, we see this happen, actually, in a lot of.

[Garrett Moreland]

That is the. Might be the dumbest rule I've ever heard of.

[Peyton Moreland]

And I know they're trying to avoid judging somebody. Well, someone's past, meaning that this is their present.

[Garrett Moreland]

I get it. If it's like, you did something bad, it's not like,

[Peyton Moreland]

holy, we see it all.

[Garrett Moreland]

I gotta gather my thoughts, because that blew my mind. We're like, not know that was, for

[Peyton Moreland]

instance, serial killers like Ted Bundy. He's getting charged in Florida. They won't bring up his crimes in Utah. In Florida, they won't be like, also, he. He killed all these people in Utah. That'll be like, inadmissible is one of

[Garrett Moreland]

the craziest things I have ever heard.

[Peyton Moreland]

And I don't know if that's like, across the board or state to state, but I have seen this in other true crime cases where the past, like past rapes or past things aren't admissible in court for a crime.

[Garrett Moreland]

I might understand that. If it's like you're a. You're getting a divorce or, you know, it's something that's. You stole a candy bar from a store. I don't know. You know what I'm saying? Like low level petty crimes or cases that aren't extreme. But to do it where someone's been sexually assaulted, killed, raped, kidnapped, Are we

[Peyton Moreland]

just gonna ignore psychology in the past? Also that if someone has a pattern that is definitely a precursor. Like if there's two people sitting here and one has never committed murder and the other one has sexually assaulted three women and they're both up on trial for someone who's been sexually assaulted and murdered, who are you gonna pick?

[Garrett Moreland]

Someone. I need a. I need an attorney. Lawyer. I need someone to explain. I mean, why.

[Peyton Moreland]

Because they're trying to avoid prejudice.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay. But give me a good reason. Because. Because you're going to have to give me a good reason. Because this is. This is crazy. I don't know if you gave me

[Peyton Moreland]

a good reason actually is frustrating.

[Garrett Moreland]

Give me a good example. And if your examples are like petty crimes. Okay, then change the law to where it's. If it's something petty or something that's not extreme, then sure can't bring it up. But if we're dealing with killings and kidnappings, rapes, assaults, then I don't care. Bring up whatever you want. I'm bachelor, crazy.

[Peyton Moreland]

And like here's the thing.

[Garrett Moreland]

Am I the only one mind blown right now by that?

[Peyton Moreland]

Okay, well, say someone armed, robbed, Armed robbery.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

A store. Didn't hurt anyone.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

Took the cash, got caught.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

Years later is on trial for murder. Do you bring up that armed robbery.

[Garrett Moreland]

That's what I'm saying.

[Peyton Moreland]

Do you?

[Garrett Moreland]

You should be able to. But you can, I guess.

[Peyton Moreland]

But it's got.

[Garrett Moreland]

Unless I'm understanding this wrong, there's no for sure. Because in my mind it's this. Right. It's. I think everything starts small and escalates. Right. With what? I mean, this happens a lot in.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yes.

[Garrett Moreland]

So here's a good example is common sense.

[Peyton Moreland]

That's not how the law is.

[Garrett Moreland]

Child sex trafficking. Right. This happens a lot. Where it'll start with something I say small, but something that maybe is not

[Peyton Moreland]

as your perpetrator probably isn't going to its first crime.

[Garrett Moreland]

Correct. Then you'll do. Then you'll maybe assault somebody. Then maybe you've raped somebody. Then maybe you've done something else. Then all of a sudden you're sleeping with children. Right. Like it escalates children. Yeah, yeah. Raping children. So it's like I. And that's usually how it goes for a majority of these crimes. I mean, you even look at someone like Ted Bundy, he started by.

[Peyton Moreland]

That's not out. That's just psych. That's just psychology.

[Garrett Moreland]

I just don't understand why that's our humanness. I'm just trying to Understand it. So someone cleared up for me. Someone leave it in my comments. DM me, I don't care.

[Peyton Moreland]

Well, you already know it's because the law.

[Garrett Moreland]

No, but I can't think of a good. Like, I. I can't think of a good reason because.

[Peyton Moreland]

Because we work so hard for our courts and our law to be fair. And so this is something that they say in order to be fair to every offender, we leave the past in the past. Usually.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah. I just don't get. I just. That's not clocking. It's not clock in my head. And I feel like I could argue with someone all day about this.

[Peyton Moreland]

So anyways, they had testimony from Joey's sexual assault survivors in Florida.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

So they consider it a mistrial. So Joey's second trial was also considered a mistrial. And then finally, in his third court proceeding in 1987, there was a new witness, and it was Joey's girlfriend back at the time of the murder. She said Joey had called her after the crime and said, I really screwed up and I killed someone. There was also some new evidence, like a pair of boots from Joey's apartment back then that had traces of blood that was the same type as Teresa's. And this time, the verdict sticks. So even though it takes three. Three trials to get it right, Joey is found guilty of second degree murder and sexual assault. And he is.

[Garrett Moreland]

So he's still found guilty. I was getting riled.

[Peyton Moreland]

I was getting, well, you can retry for a mistrial.

[Garrett Moreland]

I was ready to fight somebody.

[Peyton Moreland]

And honestly, the idea of a mistrial is well and good.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yes.

[Peyton Moreland]

Because there are times where someone doesn't get a fair trial.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah. And.

[Peyton Moreland]

And we should be able to for sure.

[Garrett Moreland]

And I'm. I'm very much in agreeance with getting a fair trial. I think that's extreme. Extremely important.

[Peyton Moreland]

You're just arguing what's fair.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yes, I'm just arguing. I don't think that that makes it unfair.

[Peyton Moreland]

After five years in and out of courtrooms, Teresa finally had the justice she deserved. Following Teresa's death, her book went out of print temporarily, though in 1997, with education of Asian American Studies becoming more popular, her book was actually brought back to print. And since then, her book has become a required reading for a lot of college courses on both Asian American and feminist studies. But there's one line I found from the book that kind of stands out. It is a metaphor of what the world lost in saying goodbye to Teresa too soon. And it reads, quote, the ink spills thickest before it runs dry before it stops writing at all. And that is the case of Teresa Cha.

[Garrett Moreland]

Tragic. I. I mean, I think it's part of the reason I hate true crime. It's just so sad and tragic that she's living her life, going home completely senseless crime. She dies. Her family lost people. Her like a significant other. It just goes. The domino effect is never ending. And I hate that. I hate that.

[Peyton Moreland]

I think it is so hard to hear about cases, true crime cases with victims who are killed at random.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

Not that, like, it's any less tragic. It is. It's just harder for our brains to fathom that someone can walk up to someone they don't know and kill them and commit sexual assault and murder.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

It's just hard to understand. All right, you guys, that was our case for this week, and we will see you next time with another one. I love it and I hate it. Goodbye.

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