319. The Killer Next Door - The Murder of Leslie Peer

Summary

Podcast Summary: Murder With My Husband – Episode 319

Episode Title: The Killer Next Door – The Murder of Leslie Preer
Date: May 4, 2026
Hosts: Peyton Moreland & Garrett Moreland
Podcast by: OH NO MEDIA

---

Episode Overview

This episode investigates the murder of Leslie Preer in Chevy Chase, Maryland, a case that seemed straightforward at first—fitting the common true crime narrative of the “husband did it”—but ultimately unraveled into a far more complicated tragedy spanning over two decades. The hosts explore how assumptions and Occam’s Razor can sometimes mislead investigators, bringing listeners through the years of suspicion, heartbreak, and eventual resolution thanks to breakthroughs in genetic genealogy.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Preer Family and Community ([08:33]–[12:56])

• Leslie Preer, born in Rhode Island, settled in Chevy Chase, MD with husband Sandy and daughter Lauren.
• The family had a reputation for warmth, stability, and hospitality. Leslie was beloved at work and by her neighborhood.
• Lauren, the only daughter, maintained an extremely close relationship with Leslie.

The Discovery of the Crime ([12:56]–[16:37])

• On May 2nd, 2001, Leslie failed to arrive at work and didn’t answer her phone, prompting concern from coworkers and her husband, Sandy.
• Upon entering the house with Leslie’s boss, Sandy found furniture overturned, blood on walls and appliances, and the family dog coming from the basement.
• They called 911; police arrived and discovered Leslie’s body face-down under a running shower—an apparent attempt by the killer to wash away evidence.
  • “Her head has been slammed into the floor so hard that it has, like, imprinted on the floor in the shape of a V. It also appears she’s been strangled.” – Peyton [15:50]

Early Investigation and Suspicions ([16:37]–[29:48])

• No signs of forced entry, suggesting Leslie knew her killer.
• Initial suspicion centered on Sandy due to proximity, marital stress, and issues cited during interviews.
  • Sandy detailed marital problems tied to Leslie’s drinking and claimed to have spent the evening before her death running errands and then going straight to bed.
  • He failed a polygraph test, further increasing police suspicion.
  • “You’re playing God with somebody’s life.” – Garrett [05:21]
• But DNA samples collected at the scene did not match Sandy. Instead, they matched an unknown male, but there was no hit in law enforcement databases.

Cold Case Stagnation and Fallout ([29:48]–[32:34])

• With no new suspects and lingering doubts, Sandy was socially ostracized and remained under suspicion until his death in 2017.
  • “That would ruin your reputation.” – Garrett [30:43]
  • “Until his dying breath, he insists he’s innocent.” – Peyton [31:00]
• Lauren, their daughter, continued to advocate for her father’s innocence and pursued answers.

The Case Reopens: Genetic Genealogy Breakthrough ([32:34]–[41:57])

• In 2022, two female detectives, Allison Dupois and Tara Augustin, reopened the case using genetic genealogy.
• DNA analysis led them to a family tree with matches in Romania, and eventually to a familiar surname: Gilgore.
• Investigators matched the name "Eugene Gilgore" in old case files—a former high school boyfriend of Lauren's, previously dismissed as a tip from a neighbor due to lack of evidence.

Revisiting the Gilgore Connection ([41:57]–[45:49])

• Eugene had deep personal ties to the family and occasionally waited in their house while dating Lauren.
• Despite a seemingly amicable breakup in 1999, Eugene engaged in increasingly erratic and violent behavior in his adult life, including an incident in 2021 with his second ex-wife.
• Because Eugene’s brother sometimes dog-sat for the Preers, the family had access to a key, explaining the lack of forced entry.

Closing In & DNA Match ([45:49]–[50:17])

• Investigators collected Eugene’s DNA covertly in 2024 at Dulles International Airport using a discarded water bottle.
• DNA matched samples from the 2001 murder scene, confirming Eugene Gilgore was Leslie’s killer.
  • “That DNA found at the crime scene 23 years ago, it’s a match for Eugene Gilgore.” – Peyton [48:07]
• Lauren was shocked and devastated by the revelation, having never suspected Eugene.
  • “She said it felt, quote, unreal.” – Peyton [48:33]

Confession, Motive, and Sentencing ([50:17]–[52:20])

• Eugene at first denied involvement, but later confessed, citing blackouts due to heavy drinking and cocaine use.
• He pleaded guilty to second-degree murder in August 2025, received a 22-year sentence, but claimed not to remember the murder itself.
  • “He says, I know Lauren and Leslie’s family want to know why I was there and what happened, but I’m sorry, I’m unable to remember and provide an explanation.” – Peyton [51:54]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Judicial System Flaws:
  “I just think it’s insane…a judge can just decide somebody’s fate...playing God with somebody’s life.”
  – Garrett [05:19]

• On Familial Consequences:
  “He died being the number one suspect, like that everyone kind of… It’s crazy.”
  – Peyton [51:00]

• On Case Closure:
  “So the next time you hear the case of a husband and a wife…don’t immediately jump to conclusions. The reality is the truth is sometimes more complex than it seems.”
  – Peyton [52:39]

• On DNA as Truth:
  “DNA doesn’t lie. His DNA was found underneath her fingernails…at the bloody crime scene.”
  – Peyton [49:20]

• On the Lingering Questions:
  “Are drugs and alcohol all there is to this? Is there more Eugene isn’t sharing? Did he have a obsession with Leslie?”
  – Peyton [52:20]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [06:16] — Introduction to the case, sources, and the role of Occam’s Razor in criminal investigations.
• [08:33] — Background on Leslie Preer and her family’s life in Chevy Chase, MD.
• [13:56] — Discovery of the crime scene and Leslie’s body.
• [16:37] — Police begin investigating, suspicion falls on husband Sandy.
• [29:48] — Cold case status as DNA does not match Sandy; social fallout.
• [32:34] — Case reopens with new detectives and genetic genealogy approach.
• [38:26] — Discovery of the “Gilgore” surname and Eugene’s connection.
• [45:49] — Investigation into the Gilgore family, focusing on Eugene.
• [48:07] — DNA collection and match to Eugene Gilgore.
• [50:17] — Eugene’s confession and plea deal.
• [52:39] — Hosts discuss the broader message about assumptions and the complexity of truth.

---

Wrap-Up & Tone

Peyton and Garrett balance empathy, skepticism, and analysis throughout the episode, emphasizing the human cost of investigative tunnel vision and wrongful suspicion. Their personal asides—questioning systems, motivations, and the incompleteness of the final confession—invite listeners to question their assumptions and reflect on the complexities of justice.

The episode ends with a somber acknowledgment of the destruction wrought not only on the victim but on her family, her husband, and her daughter, and a call to resist easy answers in true crime narratives.

---

Useful for listeners who missed the episode:
This summary covers all critical facts, emotional beats, and key insights from the case, providing a comprehensive understanding of how the murder of Leslie Preer evolved from open-and-shut suspicion to a case solved by persistence and twenty-first-century forensics.

Transcript

[A]

At dsw, we ask the important questions, like what shoes are you going to wear? Whether you're prepping for wedding season, festival season, or just planning the ultimate vacay, the right shoes can make or break an rsvp. So own the moment. You've got big plans and we've got just the shoes at the perfect price, of course. Get ready to get ready with Designer Shoe Warehouse. Head to your DSW store or dsw.com today and let us surprise you.

[B]

Jumping into an ad it is Shopify. Like, if you've listened to this podcast, I you've probably heard us talk about Shopify and our advertisements for Shopify because I've been using them for years. It's actually crazy. I think it might be one of the products I've used the longest out of anything. I wouldn't say I'm a Shopify expert, but maybe I love Shopify. Anyone who's starting a business needs to check out Shopify. It is so useful, intuitive, easy to use. If you sell anything online, you need to check it out.

[C]

And gosh, they have grown so much. They offer so much now. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Murder with My Husband Merch to rare beauty to brands just getting started. And you can accelerate your efficiency. Whether you're uploading new products or trying to improve existing ones, Shopify is packed

[D]

with with helpful tools that write product

[C]

descriptions, page headlines, and even enhance your product photography.

[B]

Start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com husband. Go to shopify.com husband again. That's shopify.com husband.

[D]

You're listening to an Ono Media podcast.

[C]

Hey everyone. Welcome back to the podcast.

[D]

This is Murder with my husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.

[B]

And I'm Garrett Moreland.

[D]

And he's the husband.

[B]

And I'm the husband.

[D]

I feel like my voice might sound a little weird.

[B]

Pain's a little stuffy right now.

[D]

I think it's allergies.

[B]

Kind of happened out of nowhere. I think it might be allergies too

[D]

because like my eyes are burning, my nose is stuffy.

[B]

Like 2 hours ago fine.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And then now not fine.

[D]

But anyways. So if my voice does sound a little weird, that's why. Also, I worked at the bagel shop all morning.

[B]

So yeah, we had bagel shop this morning.

[D]

Oh, we haven't even talked about the grand opening because Last week, we recorded before it.

[B]

Okay, I'll make it my 10 seconds. If you're sick of bagel talk, you can skip this. If not, grand opening was last Saturday. It was. It was insane, and I was not. I wasn't expecting it. It was insane. We couldn't make enough bagels. We sold out so early, and the team was still learning, so obviously there's some hiccups and everything. But this Saturday, compared to last Saturday, was way smoother in my mind. Bagels are coming out way better. Everything's starting to get more smooth. We're figuring out all the systems. Yeah. But it's cr. It was crazy.

[D]

Yeah. Thank you, guys.

[B]

I don't know. Thank you for coming.

[D]

Yeah. I got to talk to so many listeners. When I was able to work at

[B]

the opening, I probably ignored a lot of listeners. So sorry if you said hi to me. I've been running around like a madman just between ovens and just been hiring a lot of people. So I'm sorry if I have.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. We've been still selling like crazy. So if. Thank you for buying. Thank you for supporting.

[D]

Yeah, I'm tired, you know, just to. Just to brag a little. Like Garrett, they hand roll everything in store. They let the dough proof for 18 to 24 hours so that you're getting quality dough. It's dense. It's so good. They're popping them out of the oven every 15 minutes, which means they're strategically cooking them, which is the reason why we sell out, because you can only cook as much. That's a whole. That's a whole process. It's longer than 24 hours.

[B]

It's crazy. So we're making more. We're getting more oven more working on it. Like, we're making a lot right now, but we're getting more ovens. We're making more bagels.

[D]

We can't thank you enough.

[B]

Yeah, thank you so much. I think they're like a perfect, dense, fluffy, crispy bagel. Anyways, I'll stop bragging about the bagels. I feel like I should do a hot take real quick. Cause it's been a second. Yeah, I got a hot take. I was thinking this kind of relates to true crime.

[D]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. So I was thinking about, like, judges.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

I just think it's. I think it's insane. I mean, I guess there's no other way to do it, but, like, that a judge can just decide somebody's fate.

[D]

I mean, there's a. There's a few checking balances, but. Yeah, at the End of the day.

[B]

So I just think that, I guess it's not really a hot take, but I think that it should be. How. Okay, how do I say this?

[D]

A jury for a judge.

[B]

Kinda.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

I just feel like there's not enough checks and balances when it comes to judges. I feel like I've seen some great. I've seen some judges do some crazy, corrupt things. I like, I feel like it's a flawed system. Maybe people will come at me. And as far as justice systems go, I feel like the US does have a very good system, but it's still flawed.

[D]

Yeah, it still needs work.

[B]

Like, there just needs so much work. And maybe it'll never be perfect. And that's fine.

[D]

There are a lot of good judges for sure. But when you have a bad judge, it is a catastrophic error. You know what I mean? I think that's what you're saying.

[B]

You're playing God.

[D]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

You're playing God.

[D]

Yeah. So I think, like, it's a little different than having a bad worker at a bagel shop. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah. You're playing. It's different than having a bad experience where, like, you're playing God with somebody's life. Yeah.

[D]

There are people. Yeah.

[B]

And I just think it's hard to ask a human to look at somebody else and be like, okay, just look at these facts and don't judge them based off of appearance, skin color, the way they talk, the tone of their voice, like anything else, they just judge them based off these facts. It's just, it's not going to work. There's no way you can find, like, finding someone like that is extremely difficult.

[D]

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I think there are a lot of great judges. But when you do have your random bad judge that isn't. Doesn't have a check and balance, it's catastrophic.

[B]

Anyways, I guess 10 seconds. Hot take. Kind of not really. On that note, let's hop into today's episode.

[D]

Our sources for this episode are people.com wtop.com Bethesda magazine.com dateline abcnews.co.com nbcnews.com fox5dc.com wjla.com medium.com krtv.com nbcwashington.com dnasolves.com abc.com ww2.montgomerycountymd.gov dcnewsnow.com the Independent and USA Today. And then there is a 2020 episode as well. Now, I have talked about Occam's Razor on this show. Before. But when it comes to true crime, I think it bears repeating. It is the idea that the simplest explanation involving the fewest assumptions is usually the most likely. It is why the police often look at a loved one or those close to the victim when they start investigating a case. And it does make sense. But that doesn't always mean it's right. Sometimes when it comes to solving a case, Occam's Razor can lead investigators to a conclusion too soon. And it can create a lot of problems and even more victims. Especially when the wrongfully suspected person ends up carrying that burden with them for the rest of their life. Because sometimes when solving a case, the simplest explanation isn't the most likely. It could be far from it. And sometimes the answer is the one you would least expect. So for today's case, we are traveling to the quiet, upscale area of Chevy Chase, Maryland.

[B]

Wait, Chevy Chase? Like the.

[D]

Do you think it's Chevy Chase?

[B]

I'm sure it is, because you know the movie Chevy Chase? Have you ever watched.

[D]

No, I've heard the name though.

[B]

Okay. The Christmas movie, really good. I'm sure a lot of people know what I'm talking about. Is that. Is it Chevy Chase?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Am I saying that wrong? The reason I'm kind of.

[D]

No, it's Chevy.

[B]

I got to look this up real quick. 1.

[D]

I literally looked it up.

[B]

Christmas. It's Christmas vacation, right?

[D]

Like he's getting electric.

[B]

National Lampoons Vacation is the name of the movie. But yeah, Clark Griswold. Yeah, I remember, is the guy. And then Chevy Chase is the actor's name. That's right.

[D]

Maybe he was just named after this place. Okay, so we're in the upscale area of Chevy Chase, Maryland, where in 2001, 49 year old Leslie Prear is living that white picket fence life you really only see in movies. The manicured lawn, the neighborhood kids running around in the streets, the country club just down the block. The idyllic place to raise a family. Which is exactly what she and her husband, 50 year old Carl Sandy, as he was known prayer, are doing now. Leslie wasn't originally from Maryland, though. She was actually born in Rhode island back in 1952. And when she was young, she and her family moved to Pensacola, Florida, where her father actually worked for the Navy. But at least Leslie wasn't alone. She was actually one of eight kids. And many of her siblings said that Leslie was by far the sweetest one of them all with the biggest heart. She was also quirky and resembled their mother in a lot of ways. It was Also there in Pensacola that Leslie met Sandy, her husband. The two bonded over the fact that they both came from military families and they quickly fell for one another while they were both attending the University of Florida. Now afterwards, Sandy became an accountant before shifting over into it. And then finally in 1974, they tied the knot and welcomed their daughter Lauren three years later in 1977. And baby Lauren became the center of Leslie's world. As the only child, Leslie fawned over Lauren. She would do anything for her. This is something that never changed. Even when the family moved to Maryland and Lauren grew older, the two mother and daughter always stayed extremely close. But even as a newcomer in Maryland, Leslie found her place in this community very easily. Her co workers said not only was she beautiful inside and out, she was a shining light that would always brighten up the office. Plus everyone thought she and Sandy, her husband were a match made in heaven. He was a guy's guy who loved to have fun and joke around over a few beers. He was always warm and friendly with everyone. They were the perfect example of this fun loving couple what a marriage should be in a nice place with a nice family. The daughter Lauren even said her parents were always so sweet together. Her dad was obsessed with her mother as a family they always had dinner together every night. They were the home in the neighborhood where all of the local kids came after school to hang out the prayers. House was warm, it was loving, it was safe. At least until May of 2001. So by then Lauren has grown up. She's 23 years old, so she's now living in a place of her own. But her apartment was not far. It was actually just a few minutes drive from her parents home. Plus like I said, she and her mom were best friends. They spoke on the phone every single day. But on May 2nd, things were different. That morning the husband Sandy took off for work per usual around 7.45am he said goodbye to Leslie before he left. And meanwhile Leslie was set to be at work that day at 10am Now Leslie didn't have a car, so she always either walked the mile or so or took bus to work. She didn't mind the long walk through her beautiful neighborhood to get to the bus stop. But sometimes that stroll took a little longer than expected, causing her to be a minute or two late to work if she missed the usual pickup. However, that Wednesday morning in 2001, 10am comes and goes and Leslie doesn't make it into her office. Now her co workers assume she probably as a doctor's appointment or Something and forgot to mention it to them because Leslie was rarely ever late without calling. And now she's not even answering her phone. They're trying to reach out to her. So when 10:45am rolls around and there's still no sign of her, her boss and good friend Brett Reedy actually calls Sandy, Leslie's husband. Now, when Brett asks Sandy, hey, why hasn't Leslie shown up for work today? Sandy immediately seems frantic, like he can sense something is just not right. He knows his wife didn't have anything scheduled that morning. She should be at work. So this concerns him. Now, her boss and Sandy, Their first thought is, could something have happened to Leslie on the way into work? Did she get into an accident of some kind, either on or on the way to the bus? Now, luckily, Leslie's house, like I said, is very close to the office. So Brett offers to just go over right away to look for Leslie, drive the route. And Sandy was like, listen, I'll meet you at our home ASAP. Now, by the time Brett gets there, it's about 11:35am and Sandy is only a minute or two behind him. But the second they walk through the front door, they can tell something is off. There appears to have been a struggle in this house. Furniture is turned over on its side. There's blood smeared on the walls in the kitchen.

[B]

Oh, my.

[D]

The back door on appliances, and more blood on a rug that kind of looks like it's been dragged from the foyer into the living room.

[B]

Gosh.

[D]

So when your wife doesn't show up to work, and now you're at the house with her boss, and this is what you walk into a bloody house. Everything's in disarray. They begin frantically calling Leslie's name. And that is when their black lab, a dog named Boomer, comes up from the basement. Okay, Now, Sandy checks the entire house. There's still no sign of Leslie. So they stop wasting time, and they call 91 1. Now, right away, the operator tells them, step outside the home and wait for police to arrive, which, I mean, at that moment, they could be tampering an active crime scene. So when the officers do arrive, they can tell almost immediately that foul play was involved because the blood is not contained to one room. It's all over the house. But when officers make their way upstairs, they actually hear something strange. The shower upstairs is running. And when they get to the bathroom to check it out, they find Leslie lying face down. Her dead body is under the running water in the shower. Okay, now, this is when one of the officers Comes outside and breaks the news to Sandy and Brett, who've apparently searched the house. Hey, we found your wife. She's dead. And when Brett asks Sandy, well, you searched upstairs. How didn't you see her? He says the bathroom was the only room he didn't get a chance to check.

[B]

Okay. So instantly, red flags going all over the place.

[D]

Right. It is probably good that he missed this, though, because.

[B]

True. Because if he. If he's not involved, that the trauma from seeing that I cannot even imagine.

[D]

And Leslie's injuries are severe. Her head has been slammed into the floor so hard that it has, like, imprinted on the floor in the shape of a V. It also appears she's been strangled. And whoever left her body under the running water was probably just trying to wash away evidence. It also seemed like whoever had done this had tried to clean up their mess a little bit in other parts of the house, too. A luminol test shows that there was blood in the dining room, in a hallway, the kitchen sink, a downstairs bathroom sink, and a trash can. But someone had tried to clean the blood from those spots before. Just kind of giving up on cleaning up all of the blood and leaving the scene.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

They also discovered that there was no forced entry into the home, which police immediately think. Okay, well, whoever attacked Leslie was likely someone she knew or at least someone she trusted enough to open the door to or even let in. Meanwhile.

[C]

All right, we're getting into an ad. And if you are a pet parent like me, you know about Chewy. And when they say they have everything you need to keep your pet happy and healthy, they are not messing around. You guys, we love Chewy. You know, we love our doggy, Daisy, and Daisy loves Chewy. One of my favorite things about Chewy,

[D]

it's an all in one place.

[C]

You can get everything you need in

[D]

one stop right over at Chewy. To keep them happy.

[C]

Chewy has over 100, 000 products from all the brands your pets love at prices that you love. Food, treats, beds, you name it, they have it. And it gets shipped directly to your door in one to two days. Not just for dogs and cats either. Guys, birds, fish, reptiles, more. And to keep them healthy, Chewy offers pet prescriptions, pet insurance, telehealth, vet visits, and is even rolling out vet clinics across the country. And when we had our little scare with Daisy, we got on Chewy telehealth. And it was such a peace of mind to be able to talk to someone right then and there. Chewy has everything you need to keep your pet happy and healthy and right now you can save $20 on your first order and get free shipping by going to chupanions.chewy.com murder with my hus husband that's chupanions.chewy dot com murder with my husband to save $20 on your first order with free shipping. Chupanions.chewy.Com murder with my husband Minimum purchase required. New customers only. Terms and conditions apply. C Site for complete details this message

[B]

is sponsored by Chime. Chime is redefining banking with a rewards focused, no fee approach tailored to everyday customers. Unlike legacy banks that charge overdraft and monthly fees, Chime provides thousands of ATMs with no surcharge. Why pay to access your own money? It's built for regular people, not the 1%.

[C]

And with Chime, members can earn up to $1,150 in rewards each year at no added cost. Enabling direct deposit unlocks the fullest set of these benefits and USA Today gives Chime top marks for customer service. Live Support is available 247 so switching isn't just a new bank account, it's an upgrade to a highly rated banking option for Americans.

[B]

Cardholders get premium travel perks like airport lounge access and around the clock travel concierge. We actually have a few a lot of friends that use Chime and they are always talking about how much they love it. It seems like there's so many like perks perks that they can get. And honestly it was funny when Chime sponsored us because we were like oh my gosh we have a ton of friends that use this. Yeah and they love it.

[C]

Chime is not just smarter banking, it is the most rewarding way to bank Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. Head to chime.com husband that is chime.com husband it only takes a few minutes to sign up.

[E]

Chime is a fintech not a bank. Banking services for MyPay and Chime Card provided by Chimes Bank Partners. Optional products and services may have fees or charges. Stated annual percentage yield and cash back for Chime prime only. No minimum balance required. Checking account ranking Based on the JD Power survey published October 20, 2025 for on APY rates my pay Spot me and travel perks go to chime.com disclosures

[D]

their daughter Lauren can just sense something's off that day. When she doesn't get through to her mother that morning she calls her office to check in on her and one of her co workers is like yeah, Leslie hasn't been in you should probably call your father and talk to him now. It isn't too long after that when a police car pulls up in front of Lauren's apartment. They've been sent to her. And as she watches her father exit the police vehicle and approach her apartment, she knows something seriously wrong. At that point, Sandy didn't have much information to share with his daughter Lauren, other than that her mother, Leslie, has been attacked and murdered in their home. But by the next day or so, Leslie's autopsy already reveals a little more. It shows that while there were signs of strangulation, the real cause of her death was from the blunt force trauma to her head. Now, unfortunately, determining her exact time of death wasn't totally an option since she had been left to soak in the running water. The hot water and steam changed the rate of normal decomposition. So to them, that meant Leslie could have died earlier that morning, before she was even supposed to leave for work. It could have even been the night before. There was one silver lining, though. Leslie had apparently attempted to fight off her attacker. And because of that, she had DNA evidence under her fingernails.

[B]

Could you imagine, like, letting somebody know in and they just kill you?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

No, I mean, you'd be dead, I guess. You wouldn't know. But, like, the utter, like, just betrayal and surprise factor, I just. I can't even imagine. Your brain is probably in utter shock, like, just letting someone you know in, and all of a sudden you're like, wait, what?

[D]

Yeah. Now, the DNA that was collected underneath her fingernails, those samples are collected and sent off for testing. And as they await the results, police also start canvassing the neighborhood for any witnesses. And they speak to one neighbor who says they saw something strange about two nights earlier, the evening before Leslie's death. They said they found it weird that all of the lights were on in the prayer house, but all of the shades were closed. And another neighbor told police that on the morning of Leslie's death, Sandy saw them outside and said goodbye to them before he left for work. And they just found this odd because Sandy never really made it a point to say hello or goodbye to this specific neighbor in the past. But they're like, yeah, the morning she was murdered, we did see him outside, and he did talk to us. Now, detectives have to consider, okay, is Sandy covering for something? Or people just reading into the situation a little too much? I mean, your neighbor ends up murdered, Police come over and are like, hey, did you see anything? Are you just, like, looking for things that maybe. I don't know. Ordinarily, these aren't details someone might find suspicious. But when you're dealing with a murder case, everything just kind of seems like a red flag. Which is why police call Sandy in for questioning pretty quickly. And there is one question from the autopsy that's really eating away at them. Again, it's the time of Leslie's death. Death. If she could have been killed before Sandy went to work that morning, then chances are he was definitely home when this murder happened. In which case they start to think maybe those eyewitness statements need to be considered after all. So they tell Sandy they want to know exactly, minute by minute, what happened the day before Leslie died. Okay, Now Sandy's like, it was a regular day. He went to work, but after he was done, he had to take some old computers to a dump to get rid of them. He said he did that before they closed at 8pm and then he said he needed a new phone charger. So he stopped at three different stores after that to find the charger that fit. But he claims he was home.

[B]

He what?

[D]

With Leslie, again, it's 2001, so, yeah, I guess there. There wasn't really universal charger chargers for cell phones.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I guess I can see that. Still weird, but, yeah, okay.

[D]

I think I would have given up after store one.

[B]

Seriously.

[D]

He's like, yeah. So I get home to Leslie by 9pm that night. He says when he got there, he went right to bed. But he claims Leslie stayed up for a bit, though he couldn't remember what time she actually got into bed. However, this whole story makes detectives a bit weary of Sandy, because to them, it almost seems like he's trying to secure an alibi for himself. Going to the dump isn't exactly something you do on an everyday basis. But things get even more confusing when Sandy willingly reveals a skeleton from Leslie's closet. So in this interrogation, Sandy says actually Leslie was drinking quite a bit recently, and it had kind of been putting a strain on their marriage. He claimed that both of them were feeling a lot of stress at work, and they were having a hard time keeping up with bills and finances. That when she drank, it was heavy and they would get into arguments, mainly because, according to Sandy, she would make a, quote, mountain out of a molehill. In fact, he said he actually started coming home much later from work because of Leslie's drinking. He didn't want to be around it as much. But when officers asked, okay, she's drinking. Did any of this ever lead to violence? Sandy said, no, absolutely not. Though he said there was one time where he tried to get her to stop. He claimed, quote, the most violent I ever got was I grabbed her, and I just said, you got to snap out of it, like, grabbing her by the shoulders. At one point, he also confessed he had hit a wall while arguing with Leslie. But after realizing things were just kind of spinning out of control, he made an effort to correct his mistakes. Now it's at this point detectives bring up the topic of divorce. And Sandy's like, no, it was never mentioned. The two of them loved each other. They were willing to work through anything. Divorce just wasn't on the table for either of them, despite this rough patch. Now, meanwhile, Sandy's doing everything he can to cooperate with the investigation. On his end, he hands over his watch and his glasses to be tested for blood. He allows them to photograph his hands and face and analyze for any injuries or scratches to his body because they know Leslie fought back, which they don't find any. So the police figure there's only one good way to learn more, and they strap Sandy up to a polygraph test.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

And this.

[B]

Which, I mean, come on, it doesn't. I mean, it's early 2000s, so I get it. No one really understands that polygraph tests are. Yeah, I don't want to say the word useless, but you know what I'm saying? I mean, yeah, they're not admissible in court.

[D]

And it doesn't end up doing him any favors. Sandy ends up failing. So between the problems in the marriage, the weird story about going to the dump, and now his failed polygraph. Well, I think it's safe to say at this point, the police have basically firmly planted eyes on Sandy, but they're not exclusively considering him a person of interest. They are claiming to look at all options. Were there any enemies, any affair partners, anyone in Leslie's life that might have wanted her dead at all? And at one point, the daughter Lauren mentioned that a neighbor had made some strange comments about her mother in the past. Apparently, according to Lauren, he had flirted with her a few times. He was handsome and had invited her to go walk their dogs together. But none of these leads, according to police, go anywhere. The only person that really seemed worth considering at this point to police was Sandy Prerer. But two months later, that all changed. Around July, the police finally get the results back from the DNA that was found under Leslie's fingernails and all around the crime scene, honestly. And it is not a match for Sandy. It belongs to an unknown male. But when they run it through CODIS and FBI databases, there's no match. Which means there's no priors for this person. And that's confusing to investigators because the medical examiner believes it's very possible Leslie was killed before 7:45am that day, which would be before Sandy left for work to. Which would have put Sandy at the scene of the crime. If that were true.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

So this. Obviously, they start to consider maybe Sandy hired someone. They came, he let them in, that random person killed.

[B]

Dang. So they're at this point, they're convinced. No Anders or Butch, that Sandy is involved.

[D]

Well, they're just thinking because the medical examiner said, this is what I think the time of death was roughly. They're like, we think he was home. Which means he hired someone. If it's not his DNA under her fingernails and at the crime scene and it's someone else's.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

But there's no. There's no way to prove this. So at this point, at least. So in the meantime, they just kind of put Sandy on pause. And the investigation starts to go cold. With the rumors and suspicions about Sandy hiring someone. They're saying she was killed while he was still there, especially from family and friends, like people who knew stuff about the investigation. It lingers over the years for the rest of Sandy's life. He kind of is treated sort of like a social pariah. Like, it gets around town that police believe he's a suspect. They just can't really prove it. And also, there's no other known suspects in the case and actually continues that way until 2017. Imagine.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[D]

The sole suspect in your. In your wife's murder for that long.

[B]

That's crazy.

[D]

I mean, that would ruin your reputation.

[B]

Does that. I mean, I guess nothing goes on his record, but.

[D]

No, he wasn't even.

[B]

Like you'd have. You'd have to move states or across the country.

[D]

Well, especially because it seems like even friends and family were kind of like, we believe.

[B]

We think it's him.

[D]

Yeah, we believe. Like, we think he was involved. Except here's the thing. It was not because 2017 came and a new suspect came to be. The reason this stopped affecting Sandy in 2017 was because that year, he passed away after his battle with an illness. And until his dying breath, he insists he's innocent. Like, it. It followed him that long?

[B]

Wow. That would be. That would. I mean, that's horrible. If he's not involved, that would. I mean, that would suck.

[D]

Also heartbreaking for Lauren. She's now lost both of her parents, especially because she, this whole time, has continued pushing for her father's innocence. Like, she believed her father. She stood by him. And so she is still pushing this case. She wants to make sure this giant question mark doesn't become her father's legacy and her mother's. So she stays in contact with the police. She keeps her mother's case in their ear. And she does this for five more years after her father's death, when finally, in 2022, it does all start to pay off. Now, that year, the Montgomery county cold case unit reopens Leslie Preer's case. And can we just give, like, a round of applause for the fact that they made cold case units a thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Recently. That they were like, we're going to create investigators who solely look all the cold cases.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[D]

Now, there were two female detectives in charge of this case, Allison dupo and Tara Augustin. And their approach, basically, is to assess the evidence without relying on old assumptions. They're like, we go in not even suspecting the husband. We go in completely bias free and relook at everything, including that small possibility that Leslie was killed before Sandy left for work that day. Now, this time, they want to focus solely on the facts. They're like, we're not gonna. We're not gonna base our opinions off of anything. That's a maybe. And they are prepared to use new technologies that weren't around when the case was first examined. So new ways to identify DNA. As I mentioned, when the DNA from Leslie's fingernails and the crime scene first came back in 2001, it was run through criminal databases. It didn't turn up a match. However. Now, in 2022, there was a way to identify DNA even if someone didn't have a prior record. You might know where I'm going with this. Yep. Genetic genealogy, which talked about this before,

[B]

it's controversial for a lot of people. You can't sell my DNA. You're selling my data.

[D]

It's also catching killers and closing cases.

[B]

Garrett's opinion is if you're not a killer and you've done nothing wrong, then you. You ain't got nothing to worry about.

[D]

Right.

[B]

If you are a killer, then cry,

[D]

cry, cry be scared.

[B]

Yep.

[D]

Now, luckily, dupois and Augustine had three samples to work with still in evidence. They collected quite a bit of DNA, so they sent those off to a forensic genealogist for analysis. I mean, it's 2022. They're like, we might as well. Now, as we know, it is very rare that this will result in a direct match. Typically, someone that's committed A crime knows better than to submit their DNA to a place like Ancestry.com. so it's not like they get the immediate match. So what they get is a list of low matches and high matches. Low being they share a little bit of DNA. High, meaning your unknown killer shares a lot of DNA with this person. And after going through an extensive list, they find someone with a pretty high match.

[A]

So.

[D]

But it's someone who's living in Romania, which means the next steps are building out a family tree. This is pretty normal. So when you get, like, a high match, you start building out a family tree and then looking at the people they're related to. Not all these. You don't have all these people's DNA. So you have to, like, manually build out a family tree, which is crazy,

[B]

because, I mean, it can go. I mean, I guess you're just looking at people who are probably alive, depending on how old the case is.

[D]

Yeah, you can go. And you're gonna base it off the highest match.

[B]

But imagine someone has a ton of kids, and that person has a ton

[D]

of kids, and if it's like, oh, this match is three times removed. Yes, that is a large family tree. You're gonna start looking.

[B]

It would take a long time. Granted, you might get lucky sometimes where it's like, oh, this is small. Well, it's a small family tree.

[D]

We know it's a. We know it's a guy, so that does help. But it does take a while to put these trees together and start investigating, narrowing down who was living where during what was this person even here at this time? Because, again, you don't have their DNA, so you're using other evidence to try to pinpoint who it could be to then collect their DNA.

[B]

All right, let me tell you guys something. I don't wear glasses.

[C]

Let me tell you something. I'm wearing Warby Parker glasses right now.

[B]

This is true. Peyton's. All of her glasses. Were they from Warby Parker?

[C]

Which is great because they signed for

[B]

us or we Parker. When you want him, Warby Parker.

[D]

Why do you want him?

[B]

Warby Parker?

[D]

How.

[C]

Yeah, you guys, I love Warby Parker. The quality, the price selection, customer service. They make it so easy. Can literally do it online. I have so many different pair at this point because you can do, like, virtual try on, which is so nice and easy.

[D]

I have yet to be disappointed.

[C]

I have, I honestly think, like, five different pair of Warby Parker glasses, and then a couple repeats in, like, different colors. They also literally have everything else you need for your eyes, contacts, Online eye exams sunglasses. It is a one stop shop.

[D]

I love them.

[C]

And Warby Parker donates a pair for every pair sold. That's over 20 million glasses given through

[D]

its buy a pair give a pair

[C]

program which we love. And right now buy one prescription pair and get 20 off any additional prescription [e-mail] husband that's a pretty good deal. If you are looking for multiple glasses

[D]

just go check them out.

[C]

That is 20% off additional prescription pairs when you go to Warby Parker W A r b y parker.com husband I

[B]

don't know about you but I like keeping my money where I can see it. Unfortunately, traditional big wireless carriers also seem to like keeping my money too. After years of overpaying for wireless, I finally got fed up with crazy high wireless bills, bogus fees and free perks that actually costs more in the long term. And switch to Mint Mobile. Big fans of Mint Mobile Service is amazing.

[C]

Switching so easy.

[B]

Plans start at 15 bucks a month. All plans come with high speed data and a limited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can bring your phone number, activate with an EIM card in minutes and start saving immediately.

[C]

There's no long term contracts, you guys, no hassle and honestly when I'm telling you you save money and you get

[D]

the same service, I'm that is exactly

[C]

what I'm telling you. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop [e-mail] MWMH that's mintmobile.com MWMH upfront payment of $45 for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month new customer offer for first 3 months only. Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra cement Mobile for details

[D]

as they're trying to connect this Romanian family member to someone living in the United States that could have murdered someone years ago, they keep seeing the same surname pop up on this family tree is someone with the last name Gilgore. So they look back at the case files, they're like hey, this name's popping up a lot. Maybe they're already listed. And they actually find someone named Eugene Gilgore had been mentioned to police back in 2002 by one of the prayers neighbors. So they're like okay, we don't. We can kind of stop with the family tree because we're just looking for this name and it is in our case files. Now this was mentioned about nine months after the murder took place. They didn't have a specific reason to think Think this Eugene Gilgore had committed murder. But one of the neighbors tells police, yeah, in regards to this murder, I've always had a weird feeling about this Eugene Gilgore guy. So the lead went nowhere at the time because it was just a random neighbor. Nine months later saying, this guy's a little weird. But it's interesting for sure now because Eugene Gilgore, like, how is he even brought up by the neighborhood? He was Lauren, Leslie's daughter. He was Lauren's high school boyfriend. Okay, wait, so nine months after the murder, police are talking to a neighbor and the neighbor's like, yeah, I don't really know anything except their daughter Lauren, yeah, she's had this boyfriend, Eugene Gilgore, and he gives me the creeps.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

And then the police are like, yeah, that lead went nowhere. Like, but now looking through the family tree, Gilgore's popping up and they're like.

[B]

Which is crazy because it's crazy that, like, they had the person that could have potentially been in their case file. In the case file. But then it's like, nah, I mean, how are you supposed to know?

[D]

No, you don't. At that time, there's no idea.

[B]

There's no way. And also, you could have proved it.

[D]

They could have followed up and if no one else is saying anything and there's no evidence, it wouldn't happen. It's like, okay. Now, by the time police caught on to him, it was 2024, he was 46 years old, working at a real estate firm in the D.C. area. Now, Eugene had been living a rather low key life all of these years. After high school, after dating the daughter Lauren, he moved to New York, got a job in the restaurant industry, got married, got divorced, got married again, got divorced again. He struggled with addiction for a while. Apparently he's pretty open about it, though. People who knew him said he was proud of his sobriety. He spoke about the AA meetings he went to, he even mentored others. But let's go back even further. We need to look at his relationship with Lauren. We need to understand why he was brought up in the case and how his name is coming up now. It was clearly a pretty pivotal relationship in his life. The two started dating when she was about 15 and he was 13 or 14. Lauren said Eugene was popular, he was charming. A lot of girls had crushes on him. He came from a good family. He, his mother was a consultant for the World bank, his dad was a professor at the University of Maryland, and their house was another popular hangout spot for the friend group, which was convenient for Lauren because she and her parents lived only a 10 minute walk away from the Gilgore's house.

[B]

Right?

[D]

And even Leslie, the mother, loved Eugene. When the two young little preteens started hanging out, he was always welcomed over for dinner. Sometimes he would hang around the house with just Leslie, waiting for Lauren to get home.

[B]

Why would he kill the wife?

[D]

He even went on family vacations with the prayers as the like relationship lasted.

[B]

I'm just trying to figure out motive because that's crazy to kill the wife. I mean it's crazy to kill, but yeah, like what? Like what happened now?

[D]

Things were so good between the two, Lauren and Eugene that they stayed together when she graduated high school and went to college. In total, they were together for about five years. But they decided to part ways in 1999. Now remember, the murder doesn't happen until 2001, but they're breaking up in 1999. And apparently it was like a mutual breakup. Lauren said they didn't really keep in touch afterwards, especially when her mom died in 2001. And Eugene didn't even come to the funeral when friends asked him, like, hey, you dated her pretty recently for five years. You knew this family. You've gone on vacations, like why didn't you go support Lauren or her family at the funeral? He told friends it was too painful for him. Instead, he went on a road trip across the country to Portland, Oregon to meet up with a friend while his parents and brother attended the services for Leslie. Really this entire thing, like not going to the funeral seemed out of character for Eugene. And also they broke up two years earlier. Why is he now a suspect in killing his ex girlfriend's mother two years after breaking up?

[B]

Like, which I get. But there's DNA.

[D]

Like, why would he have even been at Levosley's house? Why even be considered a suspect?

[B]

There's some. I mean, I could be wrong. Okay, let's hear it. There's more to the story, obviously.

[D]

Truth was, there were some red flags about Eugene that Lauren didn't really seem aware of at the time. Again, they started dating when they were so young. But for starters, Sandy, her dad didn't really like him. Couldn't put his finger on why. But he did tell Lauren he felt something had always just been a little off about Eugene. And while it might have taken a while to manifest, Sandy was ultimately right. Because in 2021, something happened between Eugene and his second ex wife that really alarmed detectives when they heard about it. Now, while investigating this case, Well, a lot happened, actually. According to his ex wife, Eugene was battling with drug addiction at the time. He owned two guns in 2021. His behavior was erratic and scary. He would throw things at her, punch holes in the wall, call her names. And then one night after they separated, he came into the home unannounced to get his things. They get into an argument. She calls the police. And after that, she filed for a protective order. Now, what this told detectives dupois and Augustine was that Eugene was capable of getting violent. And they also learned that his brother, sometimes dog sat for the prayers back in 2001. Meaning Eugene's family, or at least the house, had a key to the neighbor prayers house. So even though it had been two years since they broke up, he still would have had access to his ex girlfriend's home because his brother dog sat for them. But that also led to another possibility. Could that blood have belonged to another Gilgore? Oh, so now that they learn. Well, the brother's dog sitting. The families obviously are still close because they trust this family enough to watch the dog. Even after the breakup. Could it have been Eugene's father? Could it have been a brother? I mean, they still don't know which guild.

[B]

I mean, at this point, I mean, they're gonna zone in. It's somebody in the family that lives next door. It's just a matter.

[D]

Yeah, they know without DNA, they know this is.

[B]

And that'll get weeded out so fast because you start approaching all the family members and someone's gonna. Someone, something's gonna happen.

[D]

Right? So they needed to be totally sure that Eugene was their guy. Now, they did find that Eugene had a couple of run ins with the law over the years. Reports of theft and burglary, but nothing that would DNA in codis. So the only way to confirm for sure that Eugene killed Leslie was to compare his exact DNA to the samples they had. And then if it's not him, they'll move on to the father. And if it's not him, they'll move on to the brother. So a few days later, they learned they were going to get a chance to do just that without Eugene even noticing it happened. Which this is the common way they do this in these cases. Detectives heard he was going to be flying back from an overseas trip in Dulles International Airport. So they work with the customs officials, and as soon as Eugene gets off the plane at the airport and goes through, customs agents pull him aside for additional random screening. And inside that room, they give bottles of water to Eugene.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

He accepts it, he drinks it, he leaves it there. After he leaves, detectives swoop in, say, hey, thank you, airport workers. Thanks for doing that random draw. And they take. Take the water bottle to the lab.

[B]

Wonder what happens if someone refuses to give you DNA? Can you make someone. Can you get a warrant for DNA? Do you know?

[D]

Yeah, you just have to have probable cause. So there would have to be.

[B]

Would you time down and swab their mouth?

[D]

No. You just stake it out like these cops do. I know, but, like, rummage through the chest.

[B]

Someone just, like, you know what I'm saying? Just stayed in their house.

[D]

Yeah. I mean, then. Yeah. No, you couldn't, could you?

[B]

Not time down.

[D]

It would have to be like, because you can't go into their home. You can look through their chats. It has to be on public, like, public.

[B]

So if you can get like a warrant, like, go into their house, time down, swab their mouth and leave.

[D]

I mean, yeah, if you have a warrant for it. They would probably take them to the hospital and then tie and do something. Yeah, that's what I would guess. Because if you're being unruly when you

[B]

go to get it, just like, no, like, I refuse to.

[D]

I assume that they would take him to the hospital.

[B]

Crazy.

[D]

I don't know for sure.

[B]

I don't know either.

[D]

Now they test this DNA. They're like, is this the Gilgore man we are looking for? We're starting with Eugene because he's our best suspect. And a week later, they figure it out. That DNA found at the crime scene 23 years ago, it's a match for Eugene Gilgore, the ex boyfriend of the daughter. When Lauren hears the news about Eugene, she's speechless. In fact, she said it felt, quote, unreal. She's like, what? Eugene's DNA is at the crime scene. She never suspected Eugene. She claimed he was always so gentle and sweet. None of this made sense. She even said she had run into Eugene about a year before at a restaurant, and everything had seemed completely normal. So she's like, what is going on? I need some more answers. And the good news is, with a suspect matching to the DNA, that has nothing to do with the family, her father's name could be cleared. Eugene was arrested on June 21, 2024. It was the first time in Maryland's history that police had arrested a suspect using genetic genealogy. And after being taken into custody, Augustine and dupois sat down to question Eugene. Now, he, of course, denied having anything to do with the case. Still, Eugene was placed behind bars While the prosecutors built a case against him because DNA doesn't lie. Like his DNA was found underneath her fingernails. His DNA is found at the bloody crime scene. And for about a year, Eugene continued to maintain his innocence. Until one day it changed. Eugene admitted back then he used to suffer these blackouts sometimes. He claimed on the day of the murder, he'd been drinking pretty heavily. In the morning, he had been doing cocaine. He remembered heading out for work around 9:30am but then stopping by the prayers house first. He remembered being let inside. Yeah, this is her daughter's ex boyfriend. I mean, it's a family friend. He says after that he does know. He went into the house after that, he couldn't remember a thing.

[B]

Oh, how's that? Okay.

[D]

He's like, I blacked out.

[B]

It's such a good but dumb, just stupid and dumb cop out because what are you supposed to say to somebody?

[D]

You're also just like not giving answers to people. I mean, maybe it's true. Maybe it's true. Maybe he really did completely dissociate. I don't know. He says he was on cocaine, he was drinking. Oh, I don't know.

[B]

Really insane. Okay.

[D]

But I will also say the medical examiner is like really pushing, like, no, no, she was killed before. And that being like the main reason that Sandy was the main suspect. Just to find out that this didn't happen until 9:30am Is such a bummer.

[B]

Yeah. And also the fact that he died not knowing who killed his wife and

[D]

he died being the number one suspect, like that everyone kind of.

[B]

It's crazy.

[D]

Yeah. So he actually decides to plead guilty to second degree murder. He's like, I blacked out. I know, I was there. You have my DNA. I don't remember it, but I'm pleading guilty. During his sentencing hearing In August of 2025, Eugene apologized. He did take responsibility for the murder. And maybe that's one of the most frustrating parts because he's not going to give a why because he's claiming he doesn't remember it. He says, I vaguely remember leaving the prayer house in the morning, but the rest is a blur.

[B]

How long did he get for the second degree murder charges?

[D]

22 years in prison.

[B]

I'm wondering if he's just claiming it because he knows he's going to get

[D]

out and doesn't want first degree.

[B]

He doesn't want first degree because if he got first degree life, like he probably gets life.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So he goes, oh, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna say, I don't remember until my grave. I'm gonna plead guilty. 22 years. I'll be out at some point.

[D]

Yeah. He says, I know Lauren and Leslie's family want to know why I was there and what happened, but I'm sorry, I'm unable to remember and provide an explanation. So there he was admitting to a murder with absolutely no motive other than that he was under the influence of drugs and alcohol and he knew the family because he dated their daughter.

[B]

There a chance it was someone else?

[D]

Probably not, no, not with that DNA.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

45 year old Eugene was sentenced to 22 years in prison where he remains today. But there is still an unsatisfying ending to this story. Are drugs and alcohol all there is to this? Is there more Eugene isn't sharing? Did he have a obsession with Leslie?

[B]

It could be. It could just be drugs and alcohol. I mean, yeah, no, people do crazy stuff on drugs and alcohol.

[D]

Was he bitter towards Lauren and took it out on her mom? Like, is it simpler than that? Is it that drugs and alcohol. John McCarthy, the Montgomery county state attorney thinks there wasn't any huge conspiracy here that day. He believes Eugene went to the prayers house looking to score some cash to just stay high. He figured it would be an easy robbery. But things obviously went wrong quickly. Unfortunately, Leslie wasn't the only life he destroyed that day. He also crushed the future of his former girlfriend who. Who had nothing but kind and caring things to say about him in the wake of their breakup. And Sandy Preer, who until his dying day was dodging rumors and accusations, taking the heat for a crime he clearly did not commit. So the next time you hear the case of a husband and a wife who, like most people did have their ups and downs, don't immediately jump to conclusions. There's a lot of possibilities out there. And the reality is the truth is, is sometimes more complex than it seems. But hopefully the truth always comes to light. And that was the murder of Leslie Preer.

[B]

I don't know. Those are, those are, those are hard ones because it don't do drugs. I don't know, like also, I mean,

[D]

the husband is always the first. It's hard though, because I know statistically

[B]

we've had a lot of listeners who have been like, I don't know how to say, it's like I've done drugs or I've done this and it's never made me want to go kill somebody. Like just walk in and kill somebody on drugs and alcohol. I mean, maybe. I guess so. I guess it maybe I don't understand

[D]

he did struggle with addiction for the rest, basically.

[B]

Why walk into a home, kill someone, then leave? No, at that part, I just. I'm. What?

[D]

And like brutally strangled. Blunt force trauma, like smashed head into that part.

[B]

It's like, are you a violent person? Like, because that just doesn't make rage. Something's still not adding up for me. I don't know. That's just my opinion. It's just horrible.

[D]

I think for me, I actually can. By the story. I'm not sure he blacked out. I'm. I think maybe he remembers little bits and pieces, but sure, in order to cope with the shame. Cognitive dissonance, like, yeah, I blacked out. Yeah, yeah. Like he's not gonna say what actually happened.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Or maybe he was truly blacked out and doesn't remember. I don't know. I've never blacked out from alcohol or anything. I don't really know that feeling or what it's like. All right, you guys, that was our episode for this week. Thank you for listening. Thank you for always being here and we will see you next time with another one.

[B]

I love it and I hate it.

[D]

Goodbye.

[F]

This podcast is supported by MIDI Health. Are you in midlife? Feeling dismissed, unheard, or just plain tired of the old healthcare system? You're not alone. In fact, even today, 75% of women seeking care for menopause and perimenopause issues are left entirely untreated. But it's time for a change. It's time for MITI. MITI's not just a health care provider. It's a women's telehealth clinic. Founded and supported by world class leaders in women's health. Their clinicians provide one on one face to face consultations where they truly listen to your unique needs. They offer a full range of holistic, data driven solutions. That isn't one size fits all care. This is care uniquely tailored for you. At miti, you will find that their mission is clear to help all women thrive in midlife, giving them access to the healthcare they deserve. Because they believe midlife isn't the middle at all. It is the beginning of your second act. Ready to feel your best and write your second act script? Visit joinmitty.com today to book your personalized insurance covered virtual visit. That's joinmitty.com the Care Women deserve.